S10 EP44: Tamzin Outhwaite

22:08That must have been tough, though. That was a challenging time as well. Yeah, of course. But he lives in LA. Well, he lives in America. So he's pretty in and out of their lives. But they have a lot of support and people that have been around. You look right.

22:24Josh Widdicombe:I'd say, sometimes we sit on these parenting hell calls and I think, how the fuck are we getting 50 minutes out of this? I've got nothing to ask. This one, I'm like, where do I start? I've still got questions about all week of Johnson at the photo shoot.

22:43Josh Widdicombe:Let's go through. So what's your day-to-day life like? Is your dad involved in the parenting? So my dad's nocturnal because he used to be a taxi driver. Is your dad a fox? He lives at the bottom of the garden. He's in a really nice cabin. Don't worry about that. He's got underfloor heating and, you know, he's all right. people always go, well, what, he's in a shed? But it's lovely. It's a lovely shed. It's a really nice shed. Has he got a key to the house? Of course. Just check. Just check. Oh, he has to come through the house to go out. He wishes he had his own side alley, but obviously he doesn't.

23:19Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. But he is nocturnal in the sense that he used to be a cab driver. I mean, I'm talking years and years and years ago, and he always worked nights. And he's never quite got his sleep schedule back in, even though it's been over 20 years. Okay. to back into normal existence. Does he still sit in front of you and turn his neck to chat as well? So that's, he's nocturnal, but he will do, he will do pickups. Like if, cause at the moment I'm a taxi driver because neither, that's what happens at this age. Cause you two are in those years of, you know, if your kids are going out, you're going with them.

23:55Of course. Yeah. And so I'm driving them around at the weekends and picking them up and waiting for the late night call and thinking, you know, what time are they going to actually get home? One's now got an Uber scenario, which is great, but awful for my dad, who's a taxi driver who can't bear Uber. You can imagine. So he'd rather go and pick Flo up than him getting Uber. Than give money to Uber.

24:17Josh Widdicombe:Yeah. I love that. Yeah. And because he's nocturnal, he'll do any time between 10pm and 3pm. Has he still got a black cab or has he got a car? No, no. No, he's got his old BM. You know, he's very old school, my dad. Has Flo started driving lessons yet then? No, he's not interested at the moment because we live in London and we've got all trains and... Well, you've got a cab driver at the end of the garden. Exactly, exactly. And me. And so I'll do pickups before nine. So, yeah, he's there. Everyone seems to have a key to the house and everyone's in and out all the time. Tom, Michelle, the boys, my two, and also Flo's mates who a couple of them are here all the time.

25:01And I always used to say, I expect my house to be full of teenagers at some point in my life as a mum. Yeah. And I'm at that stage now. And it's brilliant. I love it. Do they get you involved in the gossip though?

25:14Josh Widdicombe:Oh, yeah. I know, they get me involved in all the gossip. And do you ever think I really should pass that on? No, no. I just think, come and talk to me. And, you know, I'll always talk through that stuff with you. But whatever happens, don't take drugs. So how do you get that then? What would you say? Because I always want that to be the house they come to. I think part of it is logistics. If you're close to something, like the first house home. But how do you reckon you've created that environment? Just because it's always busy and a bit of a mad house anyway. I think because anything pretty much goes.

25:48And I know my kids talk to me. And so their friends feel like they can probably talk to me too. Also, they love Tom, even though he's literally my mate. So how often is Tom there? A lot.

26:01Josh Widdicombe:Does he live nearby? He lives literally around the corner in a flat. And if there's any food over, he eats everything. So we just go, Tom, Tom, there's a really lovely, he said to me, if you're going to talk about me, make sure it's nice. There's a really lovely stew in the slow cooker. And we, you know, 18 people have already had it, but there's some left. and you know he'll be round and he'll finish up, polish off the stew. So, yeah, so I would say it's an open house in the same way that I think my parents' house was open, you know, and I think I've created something that is the only thing I knew.

26:40Josh Widdicombe:Yeah. Did you always want that as the feeling then? Yeah. That's kind of – I know people that can't bear the idea of someone knocking on the door without phoning first or something. We're quite near the Broadway, so if people are walking to the shops, they will always, hi, are you all right? Do you fancy coming there for one? And when you go off to... Obviously, my kids are much younger, so I'm like, you never know how these things work. When you go off now to do two and a half months, whatever it is, at the theatre, at the New Vic, do you... Young Vic. Young Vic, sorry. But it's newer, yeah. Come on, you're a bit theatre bloke.

27:17Josh Widdicombe:Fuck's sake, John. At the Young Vic. Even I knew that. You've got a spanking new Vic. What was that one? Oh, Domeo! The Don Mar. The Don Mar. The Don Mar. The Dormio Warehouse. So will you just be leaving your kids? Is there anything you need to do in that situation? Or have your kids kind of reached a point where it's like a self-policing thing? Yeah, it's kind of self now. But the first time I went away to work was last year. I went to Malta for 10 weeks to film this thing called The Wives for Channel 5. And I wasn't going to say no to that because it was a lovely script, all female-led. And me and Angela Griffin and Joe Joyner were the three wives, and both of them are my mates.

28:00And I was like.

28:00Josh Widdicombe:Oh, lovely. But at the time, Tom and I were still together. So he was living here. So it worked perfectly. Now what happens is. Just leave a massive stew in the slow cook over 10 weeks. Now I just make more food and say, if you fancy popping in and checking on the kids, you know where they are. And there's food there. And so they'll kind of, would Flo look after Marnie and stuff like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They do do that. But it's now because my dad's in the house, you know, the garden is not four acres. It's like it's only 20 steps away. And he's here. And also, I suppose there is always mainly someone here.

28:35And Flo's 17. So Flo can babysit now legally for other kids. So I kind of feel like it's all in hand. How did you do it when they were younger then? When they were, oh, no, I will still, when I'm at the Young Vic, I will still get up for the seven o 'clock school run, though. That's the difficult thing about theatre. That's what we struggle with, me and Josh. The late-night gigs and then school. Because, you know, you don't see them otherwise. Because we're always going to the theatre to watch. And then we're... But that's the killer. But then you have to have a nap in the day at some point, maybe.

29:05Yeah.

29:05Josh Widdicombe:So do you... When you say you've got to do the school run, you're not taking your kids to school? I am. Presumably. Are you? Yeah, but Michelle will. She will sometimes. And if I start, Michelle is my right-hand woman who started off as their nanny when they were born. So 17 years she's been with me. Oh, wow. I know. I know. She really is a member of the family. So she was sort of who you used when you were, like, working a lot, when they were little, little, and then you did proper care. She knows them better than me. How are you going to feel? Because there's obviously you're not just dealing with the idea that your kids are going to fly the nest.

29:40Josh Widdicombe:Yeah. But you're dealing with the fact that then what's the score with Michelle? Well, no. Do you know what I mean? I'll just have to employ her as something else.

29:53I don't know because I can never lose her. I mean, she's this morning. She doesn't do like the hours she used to, but like she's here all day on a Friday. And I went downstairs just now to make a coffee and she was cleaning the cupboard out for me. And I was just like, this is brilliant. This is brilliant. And, you know. It must be so mad for you though, because like when you do EastEnders, especially when you did it, it was so, you can't even comprehend how big it was now because TV doesn't get that kind of figures. but like you're just everywhere. And then you go to the theatre where it's like there's like these millions of these talented people that, you know, no one really knows their name really.

30:26I know. They just operate in theatre. So it's a real juxtaposition between that. And do you prefer that lower profile stuff than the, you know, you become tabloid fodder, don't you, in EastEnders? Yeah, I mean, less so now. Now I think the minute that Love Island and stuff like that started happening, then EastEnders became, you know, it wasn't as important. There's other, there was reality stars then. And those people become slightly more tabloid fodder. But at the time in EastEnders when like Mel and Ian Beale got married at the millennium. Oh, remember it well. There was a massive screen in Trafalgar Square where apparently you could watch it and hear a pin drop on New Year's Eve.

31:05Oh, my word. And I went away. I was in like Madagascar. I tried to hide and go somewhere far and went trekking for three weeks or something.

31:15Josh Widdicombe:With Adam Woody at, which didn't help. Yeah. Yeah. And we basically, I'll just never forget that we got, like, the figures in when the figures really mattered. Everyone was talking about those figures. And there was 23 million people watching it. Jesus Christ. Oh, my word. Which is just like, what? Oh, my word. That's mad, isn't it? That is mad. Did you have kids when you were in that? Or did the kids come slightly after that? No, no, no. Quite a long time after. Obviously, Flo's kind of not followed you into exact career, but into the same world. Yeah, yeah. I think Marnie may as well. Yeah, and do you think, are they interested in your career?

31:54Josh Widdicombe:No, they're interested. Will they come and watch you? So they're interested when I do something like Inside Number Nine, they loved, right? Yeah. They loved Murder, They Hope. Blankety Blank? They did like Blankety Blank. They watched that one, though. Probably because you two were on it. They'll watch anything. Like, I'll say yes. Like, when I did another murder thing for the BBC, Matt Bainton was in it. So they're obsessed with ghosts. So, you know, if I could get on Taskmaster or on some kind of ghost special. You did Doctor Who, didn't you? Years ago, yeah. But I don't think they've seen that.

32:30The things that they've seen that they quite liked are mainly comedy.

32:34Josh Widdicombe:Yeah. They've still not seen Josh, because I don't know where you watch it. Unbelievable. Is it on BBC iPlayer? I don't know how you felt. It was on Netflix. Because you kissed each other on telly, which is the first guest we've had. You said an incredible thing to me on Strictly. An incredible thing when we did Strictly that I really laughed at, that you didn't realise what a slam it was. What? You said, someone asked you about doing it, and you said, oh, yeah, I really enjoyed that. And he said, I really enjoyed that. Such a shame no one watched it. And I was sitting there. Did I say that? Yeah.

33:09Josh Widdicombe:Oh, God. I'll tell you why, because we couldn't find how to watch it. What was it on? A lot of the country had that problem, Tamsin. Well, Tamsin had gone from 23 million in East Angeles. I know, you know, you're not having to go to Venezuela to get away from that one. You've had a tough life there, from Ian Beal to Josh Winnicott. I mean, you're on-screen lovers, Tamsin. To be fair. Leave a lot to be desired. To be fair, I'd say they're quite similar in lots of ways. Let's not dig down into that I've got nothing left That's basically Josh on every episode of this So going back to it This house obviously is like that now Yeah But how's that house grown into this kind of atmosphere Of kind of coming and going Or has it always been like that?

33:56I think it's always been like that But the kids getting older And their personalities becoming very prominent and funny means that there's a lot of laughter. So it's almost like whoever comes through the door has to lift the vibes even more. It's almost like a competition, a vibe. It's almost a fun, because you don't realise it, like how straight, laced and serious some parents are. I know. Because in our house, we're all being silly all the time, but then I'll go and pick the kids up from somewhere. I'm like, they'll go, oh, hello, welcome. You're like, fucking hell, what am I at a hotel or something?

34:31And the door opens And I start going alright I better behave Exactly So because I'm still such a massive kid And my ex Is actually a kid because he's 20 years younger than me So he really is one Respect actually And my dad's kind of You know And Michelle And then we've got two young kids Who are here quite a lot It does feel like the house of fun So Michelle brings her kids to your house? Yeah. Not all day, but just at the end of the day, they all have dinner together. You really do want to keep Michelle, don't you? She's bringing her own kids to look after whilst not looking after your kids because they're too old.

35:12Next time you're on, there's going to be two sheds in the garden.

35:14Josh Widdicombe:Let's be honest. Michelle does actually live in my flat up the road. Right. You like the woman in the shoe. So, yeah, she's just been too integral in everything for the last 17 years of my life. So, Tamsin, I've got a question for you. How would you give advice to other parents, like if the child is going through something, whatever it may be, maybe it's a flow situation or a different situation with whatever it is, how do you sort of connect with your child and talk to them and manage it? Going through a change at that time of their life, because early teenage years is such a difficult, You're treading on eggshells.

35:54It really is. And I think the teens that we have now also struggled with lockdown and the whole pandemic. So they're the teenagers now that were just starting to be like teenagers at the beginning. They're now, they're the result of lockdown, a lot of stuff that happened in lockdown, which was difficult.

36:14Josh Widdicombe:Particularly because your house is standing room only. I mean, there's 700 people in your house. You couldn't get two metre distance in that house. do you know what's so weird is that actually when i have the house to myself i really love it as well i bet you do because it's like one hour a year on my birthday what do you want nothing no one don't talk to me which obviously when i hit perimenopause that was quite tricky because suddenly you're like the noise was like can everyone just be quiet and then obviously i've worked through that because for a while i couldn't even hear a door slam without going ah it was all awful um I would say to people that that are going through that I mean what I the way I reacted at the very beginning I would love to change because I think until you know until you're going through it yourself with your child it's very difficult to judge other people or to judge a situation because you don't expect that to happen to you or your child I would definitely say what I did was initially I was like don't be ridiculous so I didn't say don't be ridiculous but my mind went to that's ludicrous and working back from that to talking through it family therapy therapy on Flo's side so Flo was doing therapy as well yeah speaking to other people and realizing you weren't alone was a really really helpful thing because is there organizations or anything yeah they are putting plenty of places that you can go to gender gps and the situation is that what I did was I I became almost like a padded cell around Flo, almost like going, it's OK, whatever you want.

37:51You want to do this. You want to do that. It's all OK. Because otherwise, I think if you push back on a kid, they're going to want to do the opposite of what their parent says. So I made everything a possibility. I didn't say you can't, you can't be that. But it was a very distressing time, a very, very distressing time. And what we worked through together and as a family and with outside help is very doable. Some people, I mean, it really is less than 1%. We are hearing much more about it now because we have so many different levels of communication and everybody knows everything. And I would say being the support, because an awful lot of people won't support.

38:33And there's a lot of judgmental people around that really believe there's some kind of trend going on. I don't think any trans children would choose that path.

38:44Josh Widdicombe:It's not what you describe as a path of least resistance, is it? No, exactly. It's a hell of a thing to put yourself through. It's not a fun, lightweight bit of trend, is it? No, it's not. It's a very heavy world full of vitriol. Yeah, exactly. And with a lot of resistance that you're going to come up against, you also will come up against a lot of support. So there is a lot of support out there, and I'm very aware of Flo receiving online abuse, but Flo's already knows exactly what to do and, and how to deal with it. Flo still speaks to a therapist. Marnie has been the most insightful about all of it because it's constantly from, from pretty much from day one when Marnie was six years old has said, this is my brother.

39:25This is my brother Flo.

39:26Josh Widdicombe:That's great. Oh really? That's because that generation, the whole gender. Yeah. I was wondering that, is it much more of a, This is maybe the wrong way to phrase it, but does it feel like much less of a deal for other children of that generation? Definitely. Definitely. I mean, Flo has many nicknames at school, Flozza, Flobs, you know, all sorts of different things. All of the kids are so accepting of everything. But I think they're much more understanding. whereas obviously there was a time my dad's brilliant now and on board but there was a time where you know I didn't want Flo to have the wrath of what my dad had to say about the whole thing and now everyone's you can imagine you know yeah it's difficult it's hard enough getting Christmas going through Christmas without politics between different generations never mind Absolutely.

40:18Never mind that. Yeah, exactly. While he's in the bottom of the garden moaning about apps and Uber. Yes, I know. But he's wonderful now and he will actually correct people when they say she, he will say he. And he'll say the kids, not the girls. You know, he's on board and brilliant. And there's been an awful lot of support around that has been wonderful.

40:42Josh Widdicombe:Do you feel like you've been, are you part of a community that you wouldn't have been part of in a way? In a way, but Flo's also not that bothered about, you know, meeting other trans people. Doesn't even like the word trans. Just in his world, he's a boy. He should have always been a boy. And he lives as a boy and he's a boy. But it's not really about kind of introducing him to other trans people. He's got people and he doesn't want that to be his identity, the fact that he's trans. Yeah, totally. Of course. That's the thing. That's amazing. I think that padded cell thing, such a brilliant image of just sort of like, You know, it's going to be a bit rough and rocky because it's a thing that everyone's learning about for the first time.

41:20And you may have disagreements. Or, you know, as in muscle memory, I say the girls all the time. Yeah. So it will take to a point where even you want to say the right things, but your brain just goes, you know, back into old muscle memory. And it's habit. And then you just adjust and stuff. Exactly. And the older you are, the older your habits are. Of course. So the younger people adapt to things much quicker. Yeah. Whereas it took us a bit longer and my dad a bit longer. I mean, yeah. Your dad probably still don't take card in his cab, does he? He's still waiting at cash points. He doesn't understand the whole no cash thing.

41:53Cash is king. Cash is king.

41:56Josh Widdicombe:Exactly. And with Flo going into kind of showbiz and stuff, you, like, have done exceptionally well in your career. You know when you meet an actor who has been an actor for 30 years and you go, people don't realise how difficult that is, how rare that is and how kind of uneven the job is and how difficult it is to keep work and stuff like that. How does it feel knowing that your kid's going into one of those kind of uneven careers? Are you just really excited for it? Yeah, well, I left college in 1990, so it's basically 35 years, isn't it? Are we 25? Yeah, that's 35 years. Which feels ridiculous because I still think I'm younger than that, you know.

42:34How do we think that?

42:38But I think it would be hypocritical of me to say to the kids, can't you choose a career that isn't?

42:44Josh Widdicombe:Yeah, of course, yeah. Because I've loved every minute. Well, not every minute, but I've loved most of it, you know. So for me to say to them, no, why don't you choose something else? It's like I see them have a passion and they are, I think they're both naturally quite gifted, which is hard to say because you sound like you're being a stage mum. But they're both parents or actors, aren't they? Yeah, so both of them. Yeah, exactly. But Flo has something that's a lot more kind of studious than me and could be like a film critic or a theatre critic or analyses everything, every moment, and the detail of his performance in things is quite something else.

43:28and Marnie is naturally very um outgoing and kind of reminds me of me when I was a kid so she's like a jack of all trades master of nothing that's what I was like I was like we call her have a go Marnie she'll have a go on the drums in a band you know she's singing in that she's the netball captain she's the sports leader but she's brilliant at maths so she's just like she'll do a bit of everything and I suppose she's got the same makeup as me in that way whereas Flo's a lot more detailed and a lot more, I would say a lot more studious and more of a scholar. Yeah, maybe more of a director or producer as opposed, you know, that kind of stuff.

44:07Yeah, I reckon he'll be a writer or a director. He's a brilliant writer, but also he's very funny. And how bothered are you about their academic stuff? Are you on it with their schoolwork? You're not bothered? No, I can't remember. I was the last year of O-Levels and I can't remember what O-Level, like what results I got. Yeah. No idea. I know I got five, but I don't know what they were. And I know I got drama, and I know I got maths. That's it. I don't think it's as important as we think it is, really. Especially when you're creative and you want to do creative stuff. So you never really sort of put the pressure on them academically or worry too much.

44:44So, you know, like with their results and things like that, you know, it's a balance because you don't want them to not bother, but you don't want them to worry too much about it. I think I don't want them getting stressed, but I'm probably a bit of a hippie about stuff like that. like, you know, I'm quite laid back and I was laid back and my mum was a hippie and, you know, it's, I'd rather than be kind and have fun and be funny. I'd rather than be funny. Yeah. So as well, it's going on in the last few years for you as a family, the last thing you need to worry about is geography being a D or a Sue or whatever it is.

45:14Exactly. Like I go on these quiz shows sometimes. I just did a couple recently and like their whole thing is, I'm like, I don't, what was it? What's Richard Osman's one, house of games i can't they're really difficult and i can't i can't answer loads of them some of them you know are all right if they're up your street but i can't and the kids were like mum it doesn't matter if you can't answer them just be funny and that's their whole thing their whole thing is you like sucking the marrow out of life is very important so i think it's a great approach

45:43Josh Widdicombe:that's good when you're a kid you're not from your dad's a tax hero so you're not from an acting background at all like it sounds like in a way you've got created a very similar kind of busy house situation but it feels like it's a much more kind of kind of artsy but a cab driver is quite similar though almost like self-employed go out get your money get your work it's a very similar process of sort of unsociable hours and you have to go out and find money and it's all on you rather than the nine to five you know yeah because that's what i found when my dad was a my dad was a black cab driver was he always come home at different times of night and he'd come out Does that surprise you, Tamsin, that Rob's dad was a black cab driver?

46:22It doesn't surprise me, but I feel like I know everyone in the industry who's got a dad as a black cab driver. Well, me, you, Joe, so. You weren't on there. And did he do nights, your dad? Was he like... Yeah, but not night. He'd go out early afternoon and come home probably like 9, 10, sometimes a bit later. But he didn't say it late, late. My dad just hates traffic, so he would just do nights. What, till like 6 in the morning kind of thing? Yeah.

46:46Josh Widdicombe:When were you seeing him in that situation? What was his day? I don't really remember. It was such a long time ago. Also, he wouldn't go out every night. He could choose. That was the whole thing. I mean, I do actually think now the idea of theatre for my dad is like, why would you put yourself through it for no money? Eight times a week, someone telling you where to be, what to do. It's rich from a cab driver. Not being your own boss, I suppose. But I'm really, I really like a structure and someone else telling me what to do. I like a director and being under the umbrella of some kind of establishment, definitely.

47:27Josh Widdicombe:And what would you do if your kids were asked to be in EastEnders? Oh, this is actually, this has actually happened to a friend's kid recently. Firstly, they're too posh now. Oh, they've got posh accents. But they could play it kind of the broad way. Steve Owen figure. He was quite posh. No, basically, they could easily do it. They're quite good at accents, both of them. But I think it's more that a friend of mine's kid has just been asked to audition for EastEnders, and I said, go for it, because they said, would you have a chat to them about it? Because they're being like, oh, I don't want to be in a soap.

48:06And I said, yeah, but these days, like, it's a great place to learn your craft. You've got a multicam going on. Otherwise, you wouldn't know where to stand, how many takes you've got. All of that stuff that happens when you're learning your trade in front of all those people. And it's not as big as it was before. I mean, you know, like when we talk, you know, Natalie Cassidy, we talk to a lot. Oh, yeah. She like when Sonia, it was just like she just that was who she was to the whole country immediately. When now it's a little bit more under the radar.

48:34Josh Widdicombe:Yeah, it's not going to define you. Like, did you must have had that thing where you're like, I need to leave here before this is me forever. Yes. In terms of people can't imagine casting me as something else. Yes, absolutely. But I don't think now it's the case so much. No, it's probably just because the platform is smaller. It's not such a huge platform. And so you can make mistakes, can't you, in front of less people. And is Flo looking to go to university and move out after sixth form? Or is he working? I think he will probably, I mean, there's options of like drama schools and stuff. He's got another year of sixth form.

49:10Marnie's about to start a new school on a sports and drama scholarship, which she's most excited about, which means my school runs now start at 6am. No. Oh, my God. I'll talk through the school run. Talk through the school run. So the first school, the school run that I do now that I share with Michelle, so we'll spread it out, but it is leave the house. If you're doing both kids, talk me through what you've got to do. What I've got to do from September is get up at, At least I don't have to make any lunches, which is brilliant. So at the moment, I make them lunch. I get up early. I make them lunch in the morning and pack it all out, leave it all out on the side, and then they get up.

49:48Stew again, Mum. Yep, stew. Slow cooker. So basically, from September, I'll have to drive. I'll get up at 6 and drive Marnie to about a mile away where a bus will pick her up. No, maybe it's two miles away where a bus will pick her up and take her 40 minutes up the M1 to a new school. My Jesus. Then I will come back from my two miles. She has to be there by 7 in the morning. Whoa. I know. So then I will come home and then I will pick up Flo and drive Flo probably four miles to the school he's at now and where Marnie's at now, but she's changing. so then my morning the school runs will be between 6 30 and 9 30 just going and could they do that themselves is there bus routes that they could do that themselves they really could but there's something about the time because that's my time with them in the car whether we're listening to musicals whether we're listening to your podcast gobble gobble whatever it is whatever we're listening to like it's my time with them in a way because then after school they want to be with their mates and they're seeing other people and clubs and netball and all sorts i do think that

51:05Josh Widdicombe:because we're potentially moving and losing the school run and as much as it frustrates me i was like when are we going to listen to music together because that's when we listen to like carly ray jepson or sabrina carpenter or duolipa or whatever and i'm like i don't know when that that is our thing that we do together in these journeys. When am I going to, when am I going to give them mini cheddars while we listen to, you know? I know it's silly, but I know what you mean. There's like core memories. And do you drive them, Josh? Do you drive them in the car then? And that's going to change, is it?

51:39Josh Widdicombe:Yeah. Well, if, if we move house and so. Well, after all the building work. Don't, don't, don't, I'm saying. Are you joking? Well, Just finished it.

51:57Adrian's still there, Tamsin. We're not getting into it.

52:00Josh Widdicombe:We're not getting into it.

52:05Josh Widdicombe:But I would miss that. I totally see what you mean about there's something about, because also I think, you know, we've discussed this before on the show, that there's something about sitting in a car with someone, not looking at them where you're more able to have conversations with them than any other situation. because you're both not looking at each other. You're both in this situation where you're trapped, kind of. And I imagine, like, a lot of the stuff you've been through in the last few years has been dealt with in the car. Do you know what I mean? Without a doubt. And when there was a time where, you know, hormones at the same time.

52:39Of course. You can imagine. So I was at a stage where I was hitting perimenopause as they were starting to have their hormonal shifts. And so it became the house of the house. No wonder granddad stayed in the garden. Honestly. And so sometimes it would be, there would be tears. And sometimes I would drive home from that school run. Marnie would be quiet. There would be tears. And then I would get home and I would sit in the car and just decompress for about an hour. Sometimes I'd have a good cry and then go in the house to deal with the rest of the day. um but it's so when i look back on that now it's so weird because at the moment we're in a musical theater phase and so and there's it's just harmonies on the way you know it's and if me and marnie are in the car on our own because flow's busy or flow doesn't have to go in or whatever uh that marnie will sit in the front and then it is you know it's six and some girly musicals that we can both harmonize to and i just the best thing i do is just listen to her singing and over the years you know she always says i can't sing i can't sing well she she didn't used to be able to and she's got better and better and i just sit and listen like with this pride of like wow you've been working on that haven't you so yeah it's lovely and do you share like

54:00Josh Widdicombe:things that you can see like that it feels like you really you're not like one of those kind of mums that's like well i don't get what my kids are into you really enjoy sharing the stuff with them. Yeah. It's, it's, we, Elaine Page on a Sunday, Radio 2, like that's, that's just, that stays, I mean, obviously you as well, Rob. It'd be difficult for you to say, that's for young kids, that's not for me, Elaine Page on Radio 2. No, it's no guy, Elaine Page. So no, so it's basically, we are, you know, it's quite a musical theatre household at times. And of course, then Tom will come in because he trained in musical theatre.

54:38He'll come in with a harmony that's somewhere else. And, you know, my dad just has to walk in the door and look at it all, and he must just think, this is mental, I'm going back. This has been absolutely amazing. And I just wanted to say, I mean, I wasn't fully aware of your situation, but the way you speak about it is so inspiring, so incredible. And I think it will be really important for people to listen to going through this and how you've dealt with it. It's really inspiring. So you should be really proud of what you've done. because there's a lot of love coming out of you and your family just from this chat.

55:10Josh Widdicombe:Yeah. Thank you so much. And it was a shame we're going to have to edit the thing out about him liking James Acaster. That will go. Just so you know. We can't have that in the podcast, but apart from that, it's been great. Thank you. Where is your play? Play starts in September. Play starts September at the Young Vic, entertaining Mr Sloan. Honestly, it's been an amazing conversation, really important. So well done, Tamsin. Thank you, Tamsin. Take care.

55:38Tamsin Althwaite. There you go, Josh. I didn't know that about her children.

55:43Josh Widdicombe:That's genuinely brilliant. She is a national treasure. I thought she spoke brilliantly. And thank you to her for doing it. It's a very tricky thing to talk about without it being so mental. And I think sometimes, actually, if you just speak to someone in quite a straightforward way about it with personal experience, it's way more simpler and less stressful than it needs to be. because normally this kind of topic is just two mad extreme views arguing in the street. And most of the people arguing about it aren't personally involved in someone going through that. So it was great. And do you know what I would add, Rob?

56:19Josh Widdicombe:Go on. I would find her house too much. I think you'd be down at the end of the old cab driver chatting. I'll get me in the bloody shed. Yeah. I mean, she lost me at Slow Cooker, to be honest. No. Absolutely brilliant. Thank you, Tamsin. And we will be back on Tuesday. Cheers! Bye bye!