S11 EP17: Chris McCausland (The Return)

0:00Hey, parents. How do you make smarter choices for your kids' college today? That's where Sally can help. With Sally, you can find scholarships, funding options, tools, and guidance all in one place. And if you need a loan, Sally has options for different families and different situations. College is only worth it if you do it right. So don't just help your kid go. Help them go smarter. Sally.com slash go parents. Heat up your 4th of July at The Home Depot with our wide variety of grills under$300 and make every gathering one to remember. Give your outdoor space a glow up. Whatever your budget is, the savings on seasonal plants starting at$5.

0:43With the grill fired up and your backyard set to perfection, you'll be able to invite friends and family over to kick off the party. Start celebrating with low prices guaranteed at The Home Depot. Prices may vary by store. Exclusions apply. See homekeeper.com slash price match for details.

1:24Start your free trial today.

1:30Hello, I'm Rob Beckett. And I'm Josh Willicombe. Welcome to Parenting Hell, the show in which Josh and I discuss what it's really like to be a parent, which I would say can be a little tricky. So, to make ourselves, and hopefully you, feel better about the trials and tribulations of modern day parenting, each week we'll be chatting to a famous parent about how they're coping. Or hopefully how they're not coping. And we'll also be hearing from you, the listener, with your tips, advice and, of course, tales of parenting woe. Because, let's be honest, there are plenty of times when none of us know what we're doing.

2:04Hello, you're listening to Parenting Hell with... Ellie, can you say Rob? Rob. Can you say Beckett? Daddy. Can you say Josh? Josh. Can you say Widdicombe? Widdicombe Oh, good job Thank you What I loved was The mum said good job And then the dad, the mum who we didn't know was there That was a twist And then the dad said thank you As if he was accepting the compliment Yeah, as in like You did a brilliant job Encouraging our child to speak there Gobble, gobble Gobble, gobble And hello, Josh Robben, producer Michael. This is our then 20-month-old Ellie, who we recorded back in December 2024. Finally getting around to emailing this in September 2025, because as a parent, there is never enough time in the day.

3:02My husband found the podcast, then I started listening during the long nights of breastfeeding, rocking her to sleep. There were many times I was silently laughing so hard I was afraid I might wake her. Both of you, please, please, please announce tour dates in America soon. Bad news, Jess, never happened. Stay sexy and relatable. Yeah, well, just for a smelly in New York. Rob might do some. Next year. Rob might do some next year. Yeah. That is a commitment. Rob is doing New York next year. Probably will. It would be weird to not do New York. I'm going to go to Kansas. Minnesota. Utah. Yeah. And that's it, those three.

3:41Yeah. How many states have you been to, Rob? You must have been to quite a lot with Romesh, haven't you? I've been to California. Yeah. New York. Yeah. Or Florida. Yeah. I've been to Arizona. Yeah. I think that's maybe – I think that might be all of them. I can absolutely thrash you on this. No, I've been to Boston, Massachusetts. I've been to Connecticut. You must have been to Nevada for Vegas. Oh, yeah, and Vegas. Oh, Arizona is in Nevada, isn't it? What? No, Arizona is different. No, Nevada's in... Is that a state, Nevada? Yeah, I think the state of Nevada. Yeah, I've been there as well. Yeah.

4:26I don't know where I've been. Oh, wow. Sometimes, Josh... This is very unrelatable. Sometimes I Google my name next to famous people to see if I've met them. Oh, wow. Because I forgot. Give me an example. it'll be like actors and actually you know the ones that like i've been on graham norton with or something yeah so uh chris pratt right yeah someone said to me oh i loved it when i saw you with chris pratt the other day and i was like first of all who's chris pratt then i was like oh yeah um dinosaur jurassic park man and then i googled it and i was like yes correct i was on the show because you're you're with them and they take photos but you're only there for like about 90 minutes.

5:08Of course. And you're not really with them. No. Mary J. Blige. That was another one I did. I did not on with. Who's the guy that had the accident? Jeremy Renner. And I was like, I've met this bloke. I was just reading about him. Now I've just realised I've met him. I know because it's so, it doesn't feel like real life when you're doing those shows. It's so unrelatable. But I stand by it. It's your truth. I'd totally forgotten I'd met Eve. I'm the singer, the rapper Right, I've got a good dickhead dad Parenting, I think this is from babysitting stories Dickhead dad in brackets here Josh, do you want it?

5:47Before we bring our guest on Yeah, always Hi Rob and Josh, long time listener, first time emailer A babysitting story for you When I was 17 in the 90s I babysat for a wealthy family with two children One was a baby This was before mobile phones I heard the landline ringing and thinking it was maybe the mum I answered it It was the dad calling to say he was on his way home from the train station and didn't want to get a taxi. Bearing in mind he'd been to New York via Concord, money was not the issue. He asked me to collect him. What? I said, the kids are in bed and I have no car seats. Plus, I had literally just just passed my driving test.

6:25Despite the fact this asshole had never met me, he insisted I get his sleeping children out of bed and use his sports car. Oh, my God. I was absolutely terrified and didn't even know how to use a kid's car seat. He didn't thank me for my efforts. No thanks, no extra money. I never went back again. Thanks for the podcast. Unfortunately, I didn't discover it until after lockdown, which I was surviving with a three-year-old twins and three stepchildren under nine. Fucking hell. Fucking hell. No need to keep it on with us. I'm Nanette from Derbyshire. What a twat. What a twat. Also, waking the kids up.

7:01What is that then? Is that just like he's just a bit of a sport brat and a power play and just wants anyone to do what he wants? Or even just is so self-obsessed it doesn't even come into his mind the difficulties of other people. Whatever's easiest for him. I'd rather walk home than risk waking the kids. Yeah, of course. I once had to walk home two miles through country lanes with a suitcase coming back from Dubai because they'd shut loads of roads. Oh, my word. So depressed. It was such a... What was the weather? The rain in. and it was like, it wasn't wheeling quickly. Oh, my God. And was there no way Luke would come and meet you?

7:39No, because the road, I had to walk up it to get past what was shut. Oh, my God. Then I had to negotiate with, like, builder men. Excuse me. Because they were digging up the road. Oh, my God. And then they had to, like, move barriers. I had to lift my... Oh, fucking hell. No way, Becky. Oh, no. And I'd been to Dubai with you to do Parenting Hell for, like, one night. Oh, yeah. That was a bit degrading. But, yeah, I didn't wake the kids up or force a babysitter to drive my sports car. I've actually been doing a live podcast. Sports cars are red flagging it. No offense. I've been in Dubai for 24 hours doing a live podcast.

8:18I don't know how I feel about adult men. Well, sorry, it's all adult men with children. But, like, men with a sports car. All women. With a sports car and young kids. No. I just don't know how I feel about that Do you know what Josh, I know how I feel about it I think they're wankers I think they're idiots I think they're complete wankers So I go back, I do know how I feel about it They're complete wankers I totally agree I'm not sure how I feel about that It's such a get out jail free card It's the same as when people say each to their own All you're saying is I fundamentally disagree with everything you've ever done And I think you're a prick and it's a terrible decision But each to their own You make your own fucking mistakes.

9:03I'm a pretty chilled guy, each to their own. You won't get an opinion out of me. We're talking of people that aren't chilled out, Rob. Yeah. Our guest. No, that's unfair. Because we don't know who it is yet. We don't know who it is yet.

9:19Bit for the listeners. We don't know who this is. Sometimes the order of the guests change, and we have to record these intros blind. So if you ever think... And it might be Chris McCausland. We've got him coming up. That would be helpful. That would be a great little link there, wouldn't it? That would be a great little link. Shall we throw to ourselves entering the guest, Rob? With a blinding in the blinding. It's a question, Rob. Go on. People know who the fucking guest is. It's written on their phone. Oh, of course. Why do we even fucking bother? Here they are. Here they are. Google their TV credits.

9:54Chris McCausland, live from a hotel room. live from a hotel room in the back end of nowhere mate where are you where are you i mean um i'm not entirely sure how you pronounce it but i mean i know i say scotland i'm in scotland you've changed you're not that scouse is it scoodlandy um kakaldi i think you pronounce Kikuldi. Kikuldi. So this is how I do it these days. I'm on tour in Scotland for about eight days. I pick a hotel. I just pick a place and stay there for eight days, call it home, spider out and do the gigs. Oh. Yeah. Oh, God, I tell you what the difference it makes rather than packing your stuff and checking out and checking in.

10:43Obviously, it's easier to get used to the room as well, I suppose. Do you know what I mean? And where you are than changing the whole time. and get into rhythm with it. Yeah, I mean, like, I'm yet to encounter a hotel room that's different enough to cause me problems. But, yeah, it... Yeah, but it's the packing, and especially when you're, you know, you're on tour and you're going somewhere that's maybe two hours away, and you have to check out at 11, and you can't check into three. You're like, what do I do for two hours? Yeah, so pick a place, call it home, and you don't feel like a hobo. So, Chris, the last time you came on was years ago and your child obviously got older.

11:24You were nothing, Chris, just so you know. You were just a kind of, you know, a guy we were getting on who no one had ever heard of. We barely knew you were a comedian. And now, look at you. Now look what we've done for you. Do you know what, though? Okay. And it had nothing to do with strictly. Okay, so that was in lockdown, yeah? And like, okay, you've got a point, right? but I was on countdown. I did countdown with Colin Murray going back a couple of months and he said the same thing and I was like, I was only with you eight months ago. You were nothing, Chris, nothing. I was like, I was literally with you last summer.

12:07So how old's your thought now, Chris? 12. She's 12 and you are in the middle of one of the biggest tours in the country. You are smashing it everywhere. A trailblazer with the three shows a day. I'd say outside of people doing arenas, you two are going head to head for the biggest tour. And I've got a feeling, Chris, because you're the one who's man enough to do three a day, whereas Rob's not man enough to do that. You're shaming him on that. Go on, talk to me about three a day, Chris. Rob's obsessed with this. I've got one booked in in January. So I'm learning how to do them. Like there was a period where I was thinking this is a mistake because the people who get the people who get the worst version of you, the people who bought the tickets first.

12:55Because you're just done in by eight o 'clock, aren't you? But what I've learned is that the the early shows don't need you to go. You kind of think, oh, this is lunchtime. I need to really give them my all to get the energy out of them. and you don't, they're so up for it. I've noticed that in Matanay. I've had a coffee. So are you saying, Chris, are you saying that what you do is you like, you conserve energy? So you're like a kind of an 800 metre run on their first lap, just staying in the pack during the first show. What I've learned is I don't need to blow me load straight away at this time, right?

13:38I don't need to put in more than I normally would which is what i was doing i was really trying to go oh come on it's lunchtime yay and um and people love being out i mean listen like yeah this is a 48 year old man talking here but like i think the future of the future of of live comedy if you're on tour is put the four o 'clock on first and see where it goes from there a million percent the four o 'clock audience are so happy that they get a night in yes oh honestly yeah honestly i mean i say to them i say to them at the beginning of the show i say this is how you have a night out and then you get to go and have a night in on the same day and they cheer like they've won the lottery yeah i totally agree because that's such a dead for two three hours of a day nothing happens on a saturday so are you doing it during the week as well chris or just a weekend no no i'm just so i'm not i'm not as as Jimmy Carr.

14:36He's doing doubles on a weekday. No one is. No one is. Do you know what? So this is mad. Me and Jimmy were doing a thing somewhere in East London. I can't remember where. East London to me, it might as well be like Afghanistan. I just don't know the places. Right? Just so you know, Chris, the Daily Mail are going to run with a headline. East London is now like Afghanistan. Surely from a geographical place name perspective. Yeah.

15:05I just don't know where I am in relation to anywhere and after places I've never heard of before. It's a shit hole. Josh had just left it. He just left. I just moved. It's too much like Afghanistan for my taste. Josh has just moved down, but funny enough, I've heard it's improved a lot. So I was there with Jimmy, and I had to be away. We were recording this thing, and I had to be away at four o 'clock. And Jimmy said, yeah, I'm on tour as well tonight. And I was in Guildford, right? And I was on stage at eight o 'clock. and I was like, I need to be done by three so I can drive to Guildford, have some dinner, do the sound check, blah, blah, blah.

15:41Jimmy said, oh yeah, I need to be on a train of four because I'm on stage at seven in Bristol.

15:49I'd have a heart attack, mate. You are literally one kind of sheep or wrong type of leaf away from, but like, honestly, I said to him, it'd kill me, mate. It'd kill me. I'm stressed now about getting to Guildford. I've got five hours.

16:08This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of doom scrolling? Smart move. Another smart move? Getting help from one of State Farm's 19 ,000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto. Bundling. Just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. If you've ever blasted synth beats from your boom box or burn CDs for your besties, this one's for you. As people get older, much like their music tastes, their health needs change.

16:46AG1 is the simple daily health drink designed to deliver over 75 essential daily nutrients and pre and probiotics to support energy, digestion and mood. So you can make the most out of every decade and dance break. Learn more at drinkag1.com. so what's it been like for your daughter to see you were like a dad who was you know like a real successful comedian making good money but then let's let's be honest you went on parenting hell everything blew up right and now suddenly you're doing three a week but the strictly thing that happened to you which i don't think happens very often to comedians these days i think the last time you know that kind of thing have you seen rocket man where he does a gig in la and his whole life changed that doesn't really happen right it happened to kevin bridges and john bishop on comedy road show but since then it doesn't really happen in the same way but it's happened to you in over three or four months and it's changed your life what's that been like for your family life and am i being am i wrong about that or is that how it felt to you i don't want to put the narrative on you so i'd say it's a little bit different in the kevin john nobody knew them right yeah and they exploded from one one episode a little bit like michael did you know mcintyre yeah he did one apollo and suddenly he could he could do a tour and then and then finish at the hotel yeah it was it was that stratospheric for him yeah um because eight, nine, ten million people were watching Live at the Apollo on BBC One.

18:27And that is the effect that it could have for Michael and then obviously his roadshow for the other two. I mean, I was on I think a big enough chunk. You were doing more. You were doing all the panel shows and you've presumably done Live at the Apollo by that point as well, hadn't you? Yeah, three times you know, and so a good chunk of the Strictly audience knew I was already. but even if you're doing Would I Lie to You and Have I Got News for You I've done them a ton of times but there's like I don't know how many people watch them, three and a half million something like that and that's a lot in this day and age whereas you suddenly then go well there's another five, six million people out there who are going oh wow I don't watch comedy shows and then they're getting to see you be funny and stuff so the exposure was huge but it's also it's not like one of these moments where you get your one kind of big hit and you explode out of it it's a four month exposure where people feel like they are on a, there's a journey I can't, there's no other word guys there's a journey Oh no, you've become one of them Try to give another word There's no other word Honestly you get the little bits of mouth sick out of your mouth There's no other word, you get to it I was on an expedition a passage of self-discovery yeah i mean that's a journey mate jay but like right so before i did strictly and this is how it changed with the audience as well is my demographic was 35 to 65 give or take right yeah um i'm a grumpy miserable northern comedian and um and then suddenly it's it's people want you know seven-year-olds want their photo taken with you and and great grannies and and and the demographic is just stretched now seven-year-olds aren't coming to my tour show but suddenly 20 year old girls are you know and and with their boyfriends and families and and things and it's hugely stretched the demographic that are aware of me but also when I meet people in the street I used to meet people people who would come up and they go oh I really liked you and have I got news for you or would I lie to you or whatever and it's it's in a it you know as you guys know it'll be like an appreciation of something that you've done yeah oh i liked that whereas now people come up to me and it's almost like they come up to me like oh god remember that thing we went through together like oh my god every week oh god i was voting for you i was i was crying i was emotional oh it was and it's it's it's like there's a you've forged this connection with people and it might sound a little bit mad to I kind of say that out loud, but it's...

21:13It's true. It was such an intense thing that they... And I didn't expect it to be emotional, right? I really didn't expect dancing to be emotional. Yeah. And from the first episode, I had to hold on to Diane at the end of the dances so I could talk on the telly. You've got this combination of the release of the fear and the nerves and the noise of the audience, which is only 500, but they're on both sides. Like, you know, you've been on the receiving end of some warm, lovely, you know, responses from audiences at the end of shows, which are appreciative. But some of these responses by these 500 people in the studio were almost like winning goals have been scored at Wembley.

21:57Like, fuck it. How the fuck? Like, where did that come from? And that hits you from both sides. And then you've got the knowledge as well that everybody's watching this right now. Your daughter, your wife, your family, your friends, like a big chunk of the nation are watching it in that moment. And honestly, like your throat closes up, your eyes are all in. I just held on to that. I was like, just stay here for a minute, will you? Because you're not that kind of lovey-dovey sort of theatre. You're very much a normal bloke that went in to stand up. and I have you at the very unemotional end of when you do gigs, you just sort of get on with it and stuff like that.

22:38So for you to feel that emotion, it must be so overwhelming. So it was, mate, and it was a lot every week. I tried to keep a lid on it in one sense, which was to not kind of break down on the telly. But I also realised very quickly something that I've always kind of shunned away from, which was the value in people seeing you be vulnerable, you know. And like, so all the way through from the very first episode, we were getting messages from people. And, you know, people would say, oh, what did it mean to the blind community? I was like, I don't know. I don't think they watch it.

23:24But we were getting messages from so many people every week, whether it was schools learning about blindness or disability to people who had agoraphobia and hadn't been out for months or people who experienced grief or had eating disorders and saying that watching us tackle this huge kind of thing that I was evident, like obviously terrified of. Of course. Was me making them go, I need to go and do something and I need to get out and do something. And we were getting these messages because I was kind of honest about how terrifying it was. and you could see it in my face and you could see the fear and you could see that and so you learned to i think i learned to kind of share a lot more of that throughout throughout the the thing and then we we got to the semi-final um and we did this viennese waltz to metallica um nothing else matters which um i mean i don't want to say like how little i knew about dancing before we started but you have to send in a list of songs that you like and i sent in a list of songs nothing else matters by metallica was on it and um underneath it because i you know you're a comic they just ask for a list of songs so you write jokes along the way don't you because you think well i make the production team laugh and underneath them nothing else matters i put i don't know anything about dancing but i reckon this would suit one of them twirly whirly ones right and it just so happened it was a veneer's waltz because not every song's every dance if you know what i mean yeah so i was kind of on the nose with that but um we did it and diane's choreography like you know we'd done dances where she ended up upside down on top of me and where you know I ended up holding her in the air and just all these kinds of mad things and on this one she choreographed it it was the last dance we did before the you know to make it into the final and the very last beat of the song we just we just hugged each other and it was so small and so little and I just fell apart I just so it was yeah it was a lot it was yeah it just and i couldn't put myself back together for that whole last week literally someone had touched me on the elbow and go oh i think you've done well and i just stopped crying in front of them do you think you know because you've you've opened up vulnerability where you know you always sort of like sort of glaze over it kind of thing and just move on but like you know the way you approach your blindness and your career in comedy when i still gig with you like you wouldn't talk about it that much on stage odd comment but you'd just be doing material like any other comic yeah yeah and whenever it come up you are very dismissive no i can get on with it and and i think that's helped you get on with life and get on and stuff having that sort of approach of it's not gonna hold me back i'm gonna go and do this but i think you had a bit of distance to look back and it is incredibly inspiring for someone to deal with it like that and you're very much you know you know there's not many people like you approaching anything that's troubling them like that.

26:22And it's very inspiring. And I think you've not really processed or appreciated how incredible it is what you do. I, when I started in comedy, I got into comedy because I wanted to see if I could be funny in the way that all of the comedians were funny that I loved from the nineties. And I wanted to do, I didn't get into it because I thought I had something I could milk. But also I had nothing to do. No, you're not Adam Hills or Alex Brooker. but I also had nothing original to say if you know what I mean at that young age and the older you get the more original things you have to say the more life experience you have the more comfortable you're getting your own skin and so on but also you're right if I hadn't have gone in with that attitude I would not have ended up headlining clubs like I wouldn't have ended like I don't think back going back 20 years 15 20 years if I hadn't have gone in with the attitude of being a quote normal that's how i saw it at the time stand-up yeah yeah i wouldn't have had the same kind of connection with the same appreciation from audiences and therefore the same appreciation from promoters and being able to headline the store and the glee clubs and all this kind of stuff it's it's playing the game normally as i saw it was the reason that i was able to kind of kind of make those gains in in comedy and i think on the telly as well i was i was offered so many things early on in my career on the telly that i said no to because they were crass and they were so far too disability focused and so on the nose and i thought you know what i i took the job chris no but listen listen the so the last the last leg was set up for a purpose and it has evolved into a into a juggernaut and i think it's a fantastic um you know presence on the telly and I love doing it.

28:12It's actually one of the most terrifying shows you can do. People say like, what's it like trying to be funny on live TV before the watershed? It's easy because there's just things you don't do. What's hard is trying to be funny at 10 p.m. when you've got to be contentious and not ruin your career at the same time on live TV. That's the difficult one. But I was offered like things like, I was offered sketch shows, which was just disabled performers. One was, this is genuinely the truth. One was meant to be for the BBC, never made it a broadcast. They wanted it to be called Raspberry Ripple. Fucking hell.

28:46Which is cockney-rime and slime for cripple. That is mental. And I said no to them. I said no to a disability big brother. I said no to these disability... We're going to get a gang of disabled people and go on a travel kind of show journey. And the producer said to me, I said, well, why would we all be hanging out together? What's the point? If there's people filming us, there's obviously people there to help. so what's the point in filming a struggle and he said I think it'd be really good for the British public to see how you get on and off trains oh god so none of these are produced by disabled people they're just sort of thrown together by people without disabilities they are so I said no to all these things in the pursuit of normal and so I don't think that I would have kind of got where I've got if I hadn't stuck to that but my attitude was always with the disability stuff I was a huge Eddie Izzard fan right and i i remember the first time i came across eddie in in in woolworths on this video uh definite article and i i uh i'd never heard of him before and it was out for christmas this video and i could see a little bit by then and it was this box where you could feel his clothes on the front yeah and i was like what and it was in a cardboard clamshell case and everything else is I was like, what is this strange video?

30:05And I thought when I went and looked at it, well, this is going to be like, he's gay. It's going to be camp comedy. It's going to be like Julian Clary. And I love Julian Clary. I bought it thinking it was like that, right? And it blew my mind. And he talked about wearing women's clothes for like five minutes, six minutes. It was funny. It was interesting. It left you wanting to know more. And he moved on and talked about everything else that was nonsense. And I thought, that is how you do comedy. You take the thing that everybody thinks is the one thing that will define you. And you invite people in on your own terms.

30:39And you also, you know, you talk about everything else that's going on in your head as well. So can I ask what, like, if I'd gone on street, I did the Christmas special because my daughter was seven. It was a shot to nothing fun bit of Christmas stuff. if your daughter's 12 and your dad says i'm gonna dance on tv every saturday night for on the most popular show on tv for three months is your daughter gut not did was there any point where she went please don't do that this is mortifying or was she excited or what was the conversation you had so she didn't watch the show and i i said no to strictly quite a few times because yeah i didn't think i not only did i not think it was something i could do but i didn't know what it was they were asking me to do because you can't describe it right you can't it's you can't put it into words it's dancing but you can't like but how good what are they doing like can i i had no idea whether i could do the things i was they were asking me to do and and if i'm rubbish you've never seen it you've never seen it you've just heard it no idea literally no idea mate and and and if i'm rubbish at it it does nobody any good it doesn't do blind people disabled people me any good if I have a disaster on live TV in front of millions.

31:52I'm not goofy dad dancing, but like, you know, we go off the dance floor, we get the angles wrong, whatever. People feel sorry for me and nobody wants to go and see a comedian they feel sorry for, right? So there's a lot of risk involved. Josh sells well. So I said no a few times and then when I was genuinely considering it, I showed it to my daughter on YouTube and I said, do you think I should do this? And she said, no. I said why not She said because you'll fall off the stage and break your leg daddy And she was kind of like A little bit of gallows humour She was joking a little bit But she didn't think I could do it She said you can't do it, you're blind It's way too complicated So I obviously I don't think the world of her But I decided to do it Do you think there was any part of her That was worried about how it would come back on her If you know what I mean Or was she concerned about you I don't think there was no i don't think she was really aware of what the show was in terms of that social presence right you know and um so i i was it if you wanted to like i know you was like oh i'm a bit worried about sort of if it went wrong and that but when your daughter said i don't think you can do it and other people will be thinking oh you won't be able to do it does that light a fire in your belly to go i'm gonna prove you wrong or is that so did you not have that anymore that sort of it It didn't light a fire from that point of view.

33:14My contract with myself when I decided to do it was that if I'm going to do this, I have to put every last ounce of myself into it anyway. And because I can't be failing on this because of lack of effort and lack of commitment. This has to be a failure because of just an inability of talent. You know, it can't be because of effort. So me and Diane, we had to have literally 100%. I mean, I'll get to that in a second. But the first time, that first dance, my daughter was so nervous at home. Was she there? No, she was at home. She watched at home. She was so nervous. She was pacing around the living room.