S11 EP7: Zoe Ball

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1:31hello i'm rob beckett and i'm josh widdickham welcome to parent in hell the show in which josh and i discuss what it's really like to be a parent which i would say can be a little tricky so to make ourselves and hopefully you feel better about the trials and tribulations of modern day parenting each week we'll be chatting to a famous parent about how they're coping or hopefully how they're not coping and we'll also be hearing from you the listener with your tips advice and of course tales of parenting woe because let's be honest there are plenty of times when none of us know what we're doing hello you're listening to parenting hell with right gabriella can you say bob beckett bob beckett good girl can you say josh widdegum What does we do?

2:21Try again. Josh Whedagam. Josh Whedagam. Yes, that's good. Well done. Is that a South African accent? Is that a South African accent I can hear? No. Originally from Birmingham, now Yorkshire. Hang on, roll back. Blair again. The mum's definitely South African. Maybe she doesn't know. Right, Gabriela. Not there. Can you say Rob Beckett? Rob Beckett. Good girl. Can you say Josh Whedagam? what does me do try again yeah try again right South African she's South African yes that's good well done yes that's good well done no my ear's not working this is my three-year-old daughter Gabriela she seemed to quite enjoy doing this at some point I will have to stop listening to your podcast with her in the car hopefully not just yet though I actually hate listening to other people's children at the start of the podcast but if you can't beat them join them thanks to the pod it's always nice to hear we're all muddling through together from Holly and Gabriella.

3:18Oh, we're not muddling through together. You're throwing shit at the other kids talking. Fair enough. No one likes other people's kids. I mean, that's an absolutely fucking wild way to start a podcast, Josh. What? You're just... You're tired. Tired. Luckily, we've got Zoe Ball, who dealt with tiredness her whole career. She knows her way around a bit of tiredness, mate. I know we spoke about it before, but do you think you could ever do the breakfast show? No. You're just not a morning person. I'd be fine doing it and getting through it. Yeah. But the rest of the day, you will feel jet lagged.

3:50Yes. For five years. For five years. I've got no interest in feeling like that. You would have your head in your hands at one minute to six. And then the producer would go, you're on air. And you'd be full of beans. Well, I think I'd actually blast through. I'd actually get up. I'd have a shower. And I think what would happen is I'd actually at 5am or whatever go, do you know what? I feel fine. I've had six hours sleep. I feel fine. and then oh my work's done oh my work's done at nine yeah it was my work's done at nine and then i'd finish at nine and at three minutes past nine i'd go why do i feel so sad i don't want the rest of the day because i'm just trying to stay up and i want to eat sugar to get through and i'd feel it would be like having a young child forever what is your little josh widdakombe treat if you're gonna go to the shops and get some little sweeties to watch a film or something what you're doing do you know what i've really got into recently rob this isn't sweet i've got obsessed with shreddies okay well like frosted shreddies no cool's not straight shreddies i'm a shred head yeah okay fair enough you're waking up and having shreddies you know i'm not waking up and having shreddies rob when you're having shreddies after the kids are gone to bed it's a treat yeah but what weird milk real milk yeah yeah cow milk semi-skimmed cow tell me so you're on the cow but that's your treat is that's like your sweet treat thinking about it now i'm going i can't wait for it later right so the kids are away and you and rose are in a hotel somewhere and they're not going to do shreddies are they because no but you're all snowed in right apart from you can literally walk across the road there's a petrol station with all the normal petrol station sweets and crisps and stuff like that what are you getting and then you're going to go back to the room and watch a film in the bed.

5:37Fizzy water. Fizzy water, okay. So you're asking what chocolate bar are we getting? No, I'm asking you, you could get crisps if you want, you could have chewing, you could get ice cream there, you could have... I wouldn't go ice cream. I'd probably get a whisper. A whisper and a fizzy water. If they've got apple ties, I love that. Oh. Do you know what it is? I always think people change as they get older, but I think I've worked out there are just people that act like they're a nan now yeah and that's fine and you love those little bubbles in your mouth what are you getting from a petrol station that's so young and happening and cool you're getting a bottle of prime i'm i'm having a fanta twist zero fine fine you've had a fanta twist no i don't it's too sugary for my taste and don't say there's no sugar what i mean is like it's too sweet for my taste i'm having that and i'm probably having um steak mccoy's maybe some scampi fries which i enjoy a little squares there you go you relax it into it and then chocolate wine i love a ferro rocher i might have a little pint of milk sorry you're accusing me of being a grand and you're having a ferro rocher i think you've got a fucking bowl of shreddies dry not even frosted come on no no no for them steak mccoy's they're fucking sad little weak tongues wouldn't deal with that fucking crinkled Ridge telling me a nan's chomping through that gummy gummy gum gums no they're sucking on a whisper and choking down some fizzy water I love a whisper fucking great it melts in your mouth you've got to be sat there in an old people's home sucking on a whisper because your teeth don't work and I'm going to be next to you fucking mumbling on Ferrero Rocher edges Ferrero Rocher is an old person snack let's put a vote up on our Instagram what's more old person whisper or Ferrero Rocher you're struggling with a Ferrero Rocher if you ever want to do the impression of Josh Riddick we go for a rocher right if you want to be a Mancunian do avocado for a rocher yeah for a rocher I think it's an old person snack I'd say it's one down from an after 8 no but I do think an after dinner treat at home a bowl of normal shreddies is mad so what are you having at 10pm yeah and Lou goes well when I'm being good nothing I'll have those 10 calorie jellies and then protein yogurt with strawberries cut up into it, a little sprinkling of granola and honey.

7:58That's my healthy little go-to. I think we've done this before. But if I'm off the fucking hook, I've got a massive bowl of milk. And in the massive bowl of milk, I'm putting all the different types of cereal I've got. I'm talking cornflakes, that weird mess of stuff, mess of Sunrise the kids had. I've got this protein-packed cinnamon hoops. I've got protein-packed chocolate hoops. I'm crushing up for a Rocher in there. and I'm also putting a big fucking spoon in the Nutella and then shoving that in the fucking bowl and mixing it all up and getting it down my gob while you're there sucking off a whisper.

8:31Come on, mate. Live. That sounds awful. Tonight, I'm going to have a bowl of shreddies. You're warm out. Do you know what I think's overrated? You've got the tongue of an evacuee. I think dinner's overrated. I was quite happy to have a bowl of shreddies I have every night. You can't just eat shreddies every night. I know. because society says I can't and so I don't. You're shreddies for dinner. Why don't? Toast for lunch, porridge for breakfast. Because you're not meant to. Okay, but if you could, you'd have shreddies for dinner. Toast for lunch? No, I'm not having toast for lunch. Toast for breakfast?

9:02No, I don't have toast for breakfast. Well, you're not having toast then. I'm not having toast. You love toast. I know, but I'm on a shreddy kick at the moment. Yeah, but you put toast on your off menu. You're not having toast at all all day. No, not at the moment. You've gone off toast. I haven't gone off toast. Well, you're not having it. You're not on it. You must be off it. You don't have to eat everything every day to like it. I haven't gone off pizza, but I'm not having that today. Do you know what? Because this is recorded before Zobel. We'll ask her what, uh, opening question. What's your late night treat?

9:34And it ain't going to be dry shreddies. Exactly. Anything you want to ask Zobel before we interview her? No. Well, I'm interested, obviously, her son's become a DJ. Yeah. That's quite exciting. I think she does Gogglebox with her son, doesn't she? Yeah, his name is Woody. Is it Woody? Woody Cook. Yeah. And she used to host Live and Kicking and the Radio 2 and Radio 1 breakfast shows. I bet she still knows the Live and Kicking phone number. That's a good question. Do you know it? What's happened to Trevor and Simon? 081-811-8181. Who's Trevor and Simon? Trevor and Simon used to do the comedy sketches on Live and Kicking.

10:09They were fucking brilliant. We don't do duvets. I don't know that. Oh, for fuck's sake, turn that off What happened there? You know what's happened there, your iMessage went off again No, that's not my iMessage, it's a different sound What's it saying? Updates available It doesn't need to tell me that, with such Yeah, you can get frosted shreddies now You bought an old c*** Do you know what, we have got a bag of frosted shreddies But I, um, too much for you I bought by mistake and I've opened them I just think, I don't want that Have one tonight and blow your socks off No, it's too much Your tongue won't know what's hit it I'll get a painful tongue probably Here's Zoe Ball Here's Zoe Ball Welcome to the show, Zoe Ball Hello, boys We're very excited to have you, Zoe We've wanted you for ages Yeah Well, it's quite a thing for me Because all my mates are like crazy super fans of your podcast And to talk about you in Ceph No, podcast is quite a new thing to me, Josh I will freely admit I, apart from newscasts, I don't listen to a lot of podcasts.

11:14You've got to remember, I'm sort of two generations above you. You're here to promote one, Zoe. I am here to promote one. Look, I'm not really into them, but I've got one. Like me and my ice cream machine. No, do you know what? It's all new to me. I quite like watching the clips on Instagram. You know, I'd still use a fax. If I was allowed, I would still be using a fax and an old-fashioned type. What would you fax? What would be the first thing you faxed if you'd allowed to fax? I would fax my agent saying, why the hell am I doing this podcast? No, I wouldn't have. Well, thanks for joining us, Zoe.

11:48Oh, you know I love you. You've got two kids, correct? Boy and a girl? Yeah, well, as far as I know, I often joke with them. I'm like, well, there's also Roger who lives in Tennessee. No, there are just the two. There are just the two. And you know what? If we hadn't mucked about so much, I'd love to have had more. But I feel very blessed to have a boy with a girl Woody is going to be 25 Oh wow I know, it's amazing But in my head you're 25, Zoe That's one of the problems And you're still using fax machines I'm so excited I am permanently stuck in the early 90s Isn't that a thing where you sort of see yourself as a certain age?

12:30I mean I don't feel 28 I feel that's my attitude of sort of being one. And the best years of your life, although I think they are still to come, boys. That's what I'm hoping for. I think everyone has an age that suits them. I think, Josh, your age really should be about like 58, 61, around that. It's younger than I expected you to say. I don't know. You just have the air of a cup of tea and a biscuit and a sit down. And you've always wanted that, even when you were young. There's the tea. There's the tea. Yeah, yeah. And what's Zoe's age then, Rob? Well, 28. Would you say 28? 28. About 28, I think.

13:02What's yours Rob? I think mine's going to be about 41 And I'm a couple of years off that What's going to change in the next two years? I feel like a youngish uncle It's my sort of Peak age As in the youngish cool uncle Or the youngish Oh no he's here again Don't get stuck next to Uncle Rob He's been brought in for questioning by the police Again that uncle I feel like I'm that uncle that isn't cool but if you ended up sitting with him at a restaurant for a family do, he'd understand the things you're talking about. Yeah. But may not necessarily be in them, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. It would actually be a bit embarrassing because he'd try and join in.

13:44Well, that's always going to be the danger of me at 41 as my eternal age. But then at 28, your eternal age, aren't you too tempted to carry on the night out and stuff like that, Zoe? That is a 28-year-old. Yeah, that is the danger. The danger is no boundaries. I had no boundaries at 28 and that is something that you learn. As you get older, it's like, oh, it is good to have boundaries. It is good to lower your expectations. It is good to go to sleep and not drink on a weekday and be a good parent. So, yeah, I think. How old were you when you had kids? So I had Woody when I was 30. I just turned 30 when Woody was born.

14:22He was born in 2000. And it's sort of when you look back now, you know, that's exactly when you should be having kids in your late 20s, 30s, because your body's ready, you've got the energy. But it was a bit of a shock. I was the first of my mates to have a kid. Were you doing the Radio 1 Breakfast Show? I'd left the breakfast show, the Radio 1 Breakfast Show. But, you know, Norm was DJing all over the world. Life was pretty hectic and Woo was born into that. And we weren't ready. And he, I call him Rave Monkey. He was born into that world and he has taken the battle in love with it. but I don't necessarily think that raising a child in that chaos is a good idea.

15:03Were you like going to Ibiza or whatever and he'd come along and it would be a bit like family on tour? Yeah, we'd go. In fact, we'd just been to Ibiza this year and all our friends who'd been going for about 30 years and our kids have all grown up together. There's new generation of little ones and we're all together. and it sort of blows your mind. You're like, oh my God, yeah, 25 years ago. And now the kids are going out and I'm getting up and picking them up. Oh, wow. You know, Woody was in Yishwaya and somewhere else. In fact, Woody was supposed to come out for a week and ended up coming out for 36 hours because he'd come straight out of Boomtown.

15:41And it's like, of course he's not going to make a flight on a Monday or just come straight out of Boomtown. So what you're saying is, you know, raising a child in the 90s when you're 30, He married to an international DJ. Had no impact on him as an adult. Absolutely zero impact. Yeah. It's actually went the other way. He rebelled, went the other way. We used to joke. We're like, oh, you know, maybe he'll become a physicist. I was like, of course he's not going to become a physicist. He's going to be a lunatic raver. More of a chemist, I imagine, in our view. How do you find, like, that kind of...

16:14Are you giving, like, be careful when you go out, be careful when you go to festivals? Yeah, of course I am. And he just looks at me. He did say a couple of years ago, because those first initial years, he was in one of those years at school. And apparently you occasionally get those years in school where the kids are full on party. And then you get a year that are quite chill and quite quiet and quite studious. I mean, all his friendship group are full on and they are amazing. And I adore them. And they've sort of all grown up around us. but yeah it was terrifying as parents and we'd we'd be calling each other going well i'm worried about you know what he's doing where he's and he'd just look at us and go you can't talk you too i know what you did but it is worrying as a parent when you know things have changed since we were young and we you two might be different but i never rang my parents to tell them i was okay i never rang them to say i'd landed somewhere or somewhere in a car full of lunatics you know driving back from Wigan, go, I remember driving back from a gig once and the person driving said, who's driving the car?

17:17And thinking, my God, we're all going to die. You know, we're terribly irresponsible. So when you're then telling your kids to be responsible, you know, they look at you and you say, but once you've got your own kids, you say, one day you'll appreciate why I'm so worried about you. I've got this plate in the kitchen that says, text me when you get there it's like just let me know yeah you're alive and Woody will do that thing he'll wind me up would he live with you no no he lives in Bristol with all his mates they're all brilliant and they're all DJs and creatives and fantastic rave lunatics I love them all they're brilliant right now get up to 15 off select storage solutions Put heavy-duty HDX totes to good use, protecting what's important to you.

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18:44And golf balls priced so you can afford to lose one. Or a few. Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all. From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it. How does it feel watching him DJ? Like, are you front of the dance floor? Are you going for it? Is there a tear in your eye? Oh, yeah. The first time I ever saw him DJ, I was with quite a big group of his friends, my brother, some of my best mates, and he played the Greenpeace tree at Glastonbury, which, Josh, I know you'll know, Rob, I hate it, never went back. but he played that and there'd been a band on opposite where he was playing who had gone down really well the crowd were pumping i mean palms and pacing down all of us like oh please this amazing crowd let him and he came on and we were all in tears he just handling the wind had the magic handling he went a little harder than that josh it was incredible and my brother nick who never cries he's the uncle you ought to be rob yeah and he famously never cries and even nick famously i mean he's been in some horrendous situations and he's stood firm famously he was moved to tears i saw the soul tear run down his face i remember norm's sister lois was with us and she went oh my lord he's got it he's got the magic later on you know i've been at the festivals where he's played and I've walked through crowds after him and they're all like hey Woody ah brilliant set and people message me who've seen him play at festivals and parties and stuff they're like your kid he's a great kid he makes me very proud indeed but financially nightmare we've had the various round he's constantly mum my clutch has gone he's you know he couldn't organize anything chaos but he's brilliant and how much does he like talk to you and norm about djing well he talks to his dad about djing i mean he's not going to talk to me about djing i know nothing about it apart from oh i like that mom you know when you're doing a dj send someone text you on the way down to cornwall what's the best way to incorporate that exactly have you got any cd down he does rifle through my records my cds and stuff though and he does play stuff that i'm like that's one of ours that's my mind which i love he's always talked to me about emotional stuff he calls me how do you do that it's wonderful and that happened from when he was about 15 he would be like mom can we have a chat and he's always had that and i feel really blessed that he turns to me and why do you think it is do you think there's things you did or do you think it's just Yeah, I think until that point, I'd probably massively failed as a mother in the fact that I was always working.

21:37So we always had someone amazing looking after him. Like we had brilliant nannies who worked with us so that Norm and I could both work. But I miss, you know, swimming galas and stuff like that. We've made up for that with Nell. But yeah, I missed quite a lot. How old's Nell? She's a teenager, isn't she? Nell's 15, yeah. There's a 10-year age gap. So you've been more present for her childhood stuff, more so than Woody's then? Well, I think, yeah, productions and things like that. I've made sure that I'm at shows, I'm at, you know, matches and stuff like that. But it's only since giving up the breakfast show that I now do the school run in the morning and I love it.

22:13You know, she's 15, so she doesn't really want to talk. She doesn't really want you to drive her to school, if anything. You go, this is great, isn't it? Yes, mum, I've been doing it for 10 years. I love this. But my thing is, I don't care if she's, you know, it's not a natural time for teenagers to wake up. It's hell for them. and she's got GCSEs this year but that was part of giving up the breakfast show I was like I really want to be there for her because it's going to be a tough year and also for girls 15 is booze and boys it's a nightmare it's an absolute mind field so is the idea that kids these days drink less do you think that's a myth?

22:47I think that's a myth yeah from my experience but I don't know is it just my children? you're the anomalies yeah you see your kids are still young aren't you you'll be calling me asking me for advice and years to come going so I definitely agree with that with some school years, because between my two kids, my oldest daughter's year is a bit more calmer, and they just all seem quite, quite, but the younger year, they're all just like got so much energy and like loud, and it's sort of a very different vibe as the whole year. It's really odd that some years fall like that. I know, and teachers, it must be hell for them.

23:18Oh, yeah. Whenever I go to Nell's school, because she's at the same school her brother was at, every teacher's always like, how is Woody? And they always pull out a face of, yeah, I've remembered him well. Is she a different character to Woody then? Is she a bit more relaxed or is she going down that DJ route? They're very different in gorgeous ways, but very similar in others. The idea that he felt he had to live up to us. And now she says, I'm going to give you hell, Mum and Dad. I'm going to be worse than Woody. Oh, wow. You don't have to live up to anything. You could be really calm and chilled and thoughtful.

23:57Do you know what? The thing I love about them both, they're both empaths. They really care about all their mates. What is an empath, by the way? I've heard this a lot online, but I'm not sure. You work with one, Rob. You work with one on a podcast. An empath, I think, is someone who is very much sort of feels the mood of other people around them and reacts to that. So they're really good friends and really good listeners. They're always there for their friends. They always want to go that extra mile to check people are OK. If they're in a room, they'll be able to feed off your energy and work out how you feel and react to it, as opposed to just being oblivious.

24:29Which can be good and sometimes can work against you because sometimes you take on too many of other people's. It's like, just worry about you. Yeah, too right. I have that problem a lot. Do you have that, Josh? Zoe, I care too much. I care too much. I've heard that about it. They attract the mood hoovers, the empath, don't they? And are you implying that's me, Josh? I come in and just... I don't think I have an empath. My energy could make or break the energy in the room. The main empath trait I have is if I walk past a failing business, I feel incredibly sad. Do you have that? I can't deal with it.

24:59If I walk past an empty cafe. Depends on the business. I was quite happy Claire's accessories had stopped because that was ruined in my life. Probably 21 had lost a job, but I struggled getting in and out of there on a Saturday. You're right, though, because around where I am, there's a new Persian grill has opened up, and it's massive. And a friend of mine's in restaurants, and he always said, if you're in a town, look for the place that's busy. You know, if there's a queue or it's busy, go there because it's good food, and that's the reason. and there's a Persian grill around the corner. It looks well fancy.

25:29There's never anyone in there. And I felt a bit sad about that yesterday. Chloe, you're so naive. You're so naive. It's money laundering. All these barber shops, there's no one in there. Just people going in and out buying stuff for cash. Woody's getting his hair cut five times a week. It's a front. It's probably not. I know what you mean, though. But the negative part of that is you can get too worked up in other people's problems trying to help, aren't you? And it's like, look after you. Look after you. To go back, you were really good at that. You talked to Woody about his emotions from kind of teenage years.

26:07That was a real connection. Yeah. And we talked, you know, because it was tough for my kids because, you know, we split up, got to Austin. And quite a lot went on in our lives for them to deal with, you know, as kids and to see their parents go through stuff like that. And that was really tough. And I was really grateful that Woody from quite a young age wanted to talk to me about us getting divorced, wanted to talk to us about how our relationships worked, what were good relationships. He was fascinated by all our friends and our family and all of their relationships. And he's really astute. So he could see, oh, yeah, I get it now.

26:41I get it about, you know, my dad or, you know, my brothers and things like that. And I think he'd equate that to his own friends and his own life. so he's always looking out for his mates yeah and it's pretty good to see they do that and they party hard but they also go and do things like they build stuff in the woods and chill out and it's a good balance it's a good balance it's a healthy from the outside though so it seems like you know obviously it's totally different inside it but like it seems like you and Norman have got really healthy approach to the kids I mean it may not have always been like that but like you say go into an event and you can stand there with your brother, you know, Norman's sister, Norman, and just enjoy Woody's performance.

27:22Has it always been like that? Or has that taken time to work towards? Do you know what? It's Norm's family. My family split and it was quite tough. And the two sides didn't really talk. Norm's family split, but they always hung out together. So at Christmases, birthdays, the whole family would be together. His mum and his dad and their partners. And I always used to think wow this is like radical yeah you know it's quite unusual and I very much kind of was inspired by them doing that because also it just made it easier because you know all the cook kids didn't have to have two Christmases two birthdays so when we split up we're both very lucky that there was a lot of love between us and it was like we've got to do this the kind way and the most important thing is that the kids are all right and it wasn't easy in the beginning and it did take time but i am so grateful to parent with him because he's a brilliant dad he's great he's fun and we share a lot of the same friends and our families are still mates and it's great we can be together for the kids birthdays stuff like that i've just been away and we spent time we're in the same place and we spent time together so it's great for our kids and they always woody's always like putting the fun into dysfunctional but it's a bit mad but it's so refreshing and i've got a lot of friends and family members who've had really tough toxic divorces and that is not always possible and so i'm grateful that we've been able to make it like that yeah he's a brilliant dad he's also quite good at we're quite good at calling each other out if one of us needs to lift it up a bit it's like oh we're not and we're married

29:02did that get easier when you divorce sorry asking for a friend I'd quite like to put the fun into dysfunctional I think about that oh god your girls must be so patient I always think I know that I've met Lou she is very patient no I think um you could do it subtly and it's sort of like uh I know you're cross about that I know you're a bit frustrated with him over that or with her over this but why don't you just try a bit of that we can pull each other up and it does sometimes it'll be like yeah and you go away and think oh actually yeah you've got a point yeah yeah i'm really grateful for that and also now my kids give me advice on my relationships oh really yeah like mom maybe you're overreacting maybe you're being a bit you know maybe just calm down all right yeah thanks well because i think if you've done your job well your children are emotionally more intelligent than you yeah exactly and mine definitely are i mean to be honest with few that were more emotionally intelligent than me at five.

30:04I've got an exciting bit of news for you, Zoe. This will blow your mind. Rob's never come to an interview having done research with a question before. I know. Really? Just rocks up. But today he's told me he's got a question that he's researched. Well, no, it wasn't a question. Basically, I always Google how many kids people have got. I think that's the bare minimum. He always Googles who it is to double check. Who is? I'm believing bringing something up where they got divorced last week and you start going, how is it? We did interview Ed Balls and he only realised afterwards that he used to be a politician.

30:35So that was... I did know how many kids he had. That's more important than your job. Yeah, it's not about labels. It's about connecting with a human underneath. And we didn't connect with a human underneath for 50 minutes. No, no, no. You can't connect with a politician. They don't know who they are. We're all hiding from something, looking for power. Anyway, basically, I just read a thing about how when Nellie, now she's 15, 14, 15, you'd say to her, do you want to sleep in with me? which when they're younger, kids love that. And you used to love doing that with Nilly, but she's at the age now.

31:03She's like, this is for an interview. This is unbelievable research. I don't want to get into bed with you anymore, mum, because she's 14, 15 and she doesn't, fair enough. And saying how much you miss that. And on my side of things where me or Lou have basically, the last couple of months for a number of reasons, have slept with one of our daughters and it's absolutely sending us insane. Trouble in paradise. Is it rose tinted glasses you're talking through this or is it something you really loved when they were younger? And does the size of the bed make a difference? I think the size of the bed definitely makes a difference.

31:34People often comment like, whoa, your bed is massive. And it's like, yeah, because at some point there were four people in it. And then you had kids. A lot of fun, isn't it? Oh, dear, it all went on. And also my kids, I don't know if it was the same, they'd go sideways. You'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that walking up your back, da-da-da-da-da, lying on your face. But because, you know, kids now, they're in screens and phones and they're talking to people, and now they'll be talking to people on Snapchat late. Sometimes if I'm on my own and it's girls' night and she's here and she's in the mood, she will climb into bed, especially, you know, because sometimes, you know, kids are still needy and it's so lovely when you're like, oh, you really need an early night.