S12 EP22: Lauren Laverne

30:53It'll be the adults going... This is the other thing that the research actually showed was that when they did go, the kids actually loved it. They responded in a much more positive way than the parents might have anticipated. So it's definitely... I think there's a parental anxiety thing. There are absolutely the barriers that you're talking about, like cultural barriers, sometimes that can be financial barriers. But actually, the research showed that even when that's not the case, it's still only this like 52 % of parents who have taken their kid to a gallery. Now, why is that? You know, so many galleries have brilliant facilities for families.

31:30You know, they're free. And loads of kids' interactive areas. Oh man, it's screen free. I mean, what did Picasso... And it's a free day out. A free day out. You know, how many of those do you get? Apart from the travel, yeah.

31:39Josh Widdicombe:So it's big. We took my daughter to the... We take her... Well, we moved out of London now, but we used to take her every year to the... you know, the show where everyone can submit, what's that called? The Royal Academy Summer Exhibition. Yeah. And there's so many, there's like literally a thousand things. Yeah, they do this thing called The Hang and like all of the portraits and paintings and pictures are packed really tightly on them. It's not like she's expected to stand there for 20 minutes and look at her landscape and respond. She could, it's everywhere and she can find stuff and she loves it and she's really into art.

32:17Josh Widdicombe:So that drove us, I think, also my wife's mum is an artist. That helps. That helps. But that drove us to take her there. Because we were like, oh, you like art, let's take her to that. But you do imagine that there'll be, you know, people tutting or whatever. Do you know what I mean? And that's what you've got to get over. That's another cultural thing, isn't it? That we sort of imagine that galleries are like these serious cathedrals of the art experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. And I think that's one of the reasons that I'm lucky because, you know, even though I'm not actually posh, obviously I grew up, think now.

32:55But like we were always taken, my mum and dad took us to everything, like every art gallery, every music, everything they could get us to, they took us to. So I always felt like it was for us. I had like a very no-brow. I had all my family, you know, including my mum and dad were working class. That was the culture that I was from. But you was an anomaly in that group though because of their siblings. Were they doing that, your cousins? No, not really. No, it would be more your mum and dad. Definitely we were a little bit different, but I think I had the best of both worlds, right? So I had all that kind of warmth and support and the fun of, like, working class culture and access to that.

33:30But they wanted to make sure that we didn't miss out on all the good stuff that you get if you go to galleries. And that's the thing. It's like they are for everyone. You know, art galleries shouldn't be like that. I'm not saying go into the Tate Modern and scream your head off. No, of course. You might don't ruin someone's day for no reason. although I did take my when my eldest was very little we went to a Rothko show and we walked into a room that was just red and he went straight out but that's part of the experience of it and it's funny other people will be laughing also that's probably how Rothko felt on the day that's what those paintings were about but this is the thing I think it's just sort of trying it and your kids might surprise you you know everybody was a baby once everybody was a kid once there's that saying isn't there you know you get to have a child-free life but you don't get to have a child-free world and I think actually galleries are, in general, getting a lot better at making families.

34:22Also, if it's a summer holidays or a Saturday morning and you're moaning about kids, go on a fucking Wednesday. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? You've got all week, Monday to Friday term time and there won't be one kid there. If you're going on a Sunday afternoon and there's kids there, leave and come back in the week. That's it. Well, and also, you know, from a family perspective, like there are so many activities for kids in galleries. it's screen free you know we're always talking about like how can we kind of get kids off screen is there anywhere there's a list of places people can go over the easter holidays or is there like is there a website or where could they find more well they can find out more about what clarendon are doing at the clarendon fine art website yeah that's a good place to start and then yeah and i mean just check out your local galleries and see what they've got on offer because they might

35:05Josh Widdicombe:surprise you do you know what you don't i mean talk i've moved to devon so i'm like supporting the regions. But you think, oh, well, that's just a London thing. But it's not. Like, there's a... We've got, like, Grayson Perry's got an exhibition at the moment. And you go, there is stuff everywhere around the country. It's not just like a kind of, so you have to come to London because that's where you see all the famous paintings. Well, and art is play, right? Grayson's such a good example, isn't he, of that? You know, that it's sort of playful and irreverent. And there's all these qualities that actually are best exhibited in kids.

35:41in children.

35:42Josh Widdicombe:I also think from my experience of taking my daughter to things kids respond a lot to more modern art, do you know what I mean? Because it's the more conceptual mad kind of stuff that she'd see she'd go, oh I've got I like that or I hate that much more than she would with maybe a kind of you imagine it's old oil paintings or whatever but it's fun. Well this is the thing and you've just got to try it and see and they'll probably surprise you, I mean that's what the research showed but for me it's interesting because also you do as a parent who takes their kids and i was a kid who was dragged direct my mom loved history right so i was like at the jorvik viking center amazing school trip all right like you know every stunk with any holiday for us was like a bus tour and then like a walk around a cathedral smelling your own cagoule where it's like you know what You've got like, there's condensation inside and you've got your own like ecosystem going on.

36:39Like, so, and I complained about that when I got to my teenage years and there's a bit where they do, but then suddenly it sort of switches again. It's like, that's like my son going, you know, like going, oh no, not another gallery. And then suddenly he'd come up to me and be like, mum, are we members at the V &A? And I'd be like, yes, yes, we are. Obviously you're a very working class Northern background. How did you feel like when you've worked to the BBC for years now, like over 20 years, and that is incredibly middle class and establishment? How do you, especially Radio 4, now a Desert Island Discs, how did you, how did you, how did you found that world?

37:14Well, it's funny. It's, I mean, because like I say, you know, my mum and dad, they worked in education and they, you know, they came, had an upbringing that was very working class and retained that culture. But then I suppose I had a conventionally middle class in some ways upbringing. but there were certain things like we never did we never went to restaurants or anything we never ate out we didn't know anyone who played golf or skied or anything I don't really have that kind of layer the door was creaked open but you weren't fully in I'm barely so I can sort of get by but I'm not fluent in the language of that culture I would say so yeah I think it is a different culture because other than this your accent's a little bit softer is that intentional or do you just slow down I slow I think it's because I'm slowing down and because I'm concentrating and obviously also does island disc has a very big international audience so really was that a consideration I do want to make sure that I'm that I'm understood but it's not like it's not intentional you know I think probably if you listen to Jill Scott's episode where me and I didn't know if that was you know I don't know like you've got more measured approach to move into radio for no because you know i think you i think the action is beautiful it's great to hear it down kind of thing no no but it's such a beautiful accident it's great to hear that on establishment shows and representing those areas yeah you can still tell it's on a verne and where you're from but you just felt a little bit more of a was that more for the international then i think i think it's like you know when i'm in maybe when i'm in presenting mode and i'm kind of you know you you i'm like say i'm doing reading somebody's introduction it'll often be quite wordy if they're a scientist or if i'm trying to if i'm trying to like pre-see what string theory is at the beginning of a question which is so you're slowing it and be more measured with it rather than a casual well string theory right so quantum physics either really really big or

39:03Josh Widdicombe:really really small strings are really tiny how does it work with desert island discs do you how long is that record it depends on the person and it depends on their availability a little bit so you know if you're doing the secretary general of nato quite busy so you might get an hour wow how was that that was great was it i was so worried about that one that was when it was uh jan stoltenberg was the secretary general of nato and he was the norwegian prime minister three times wow you don't need to tell me that yeah fascinating guy and i was but i was like you know i knew i had a very limited time with him and i was like what are we gonna what gonna connect over to connect i saw his list right and i'm looking at his music list i'm like great track great track and then like schmerz so we put this norwegian techno band i was like i said i put them on at a gig in london right i was curating this season of gigs and i put them on these two girls playing this like r &b infused techno and uh it was his daughter oh wow oh wow Talk about nepotism.

40:11Have you stuck it on? So I was like, and obviously he said, you know, so I was like, oh, I could say, oh, I put your daughter's band on him. So we were instantly like, that's perfect. So sometimes music does the work for you.

40:24Josh Widdicombe:Do you have to sit and listen to the song with, because obviously in the thing, it's edited down. Do you, where do you look? Well, it depends. It's really interesting. And also how people react. Like, so, you know, the truth is like, sometimes it's a very tight record and it might be more like, like Steven Spielberg I remember had two minutes more than the record the length of the programme so you cut the music then so that was like very brief and we just did a little bit of up sync of the music so 30 seconds or something and then but then others you know it might be a bit longer if it's someone who really likes a chat like Steven Graham we had such a great chat oh that's an amazing the way he talks about his wife is incredible oh my god I was in bits I was driving I still remember the road I went home I said to my husband I met someone today I've never met anyone who loves his wife as much as Stephen Graham loves his wife he went what about me I went no more than you it's like so great yeah it's brilliant how are you with there's an incredible clip of Ade Edmondson crying oh yeah yeah how do you find that we've we're not is it a sneaky fist bump under the table for the viral clip oh tears on tape yeah see the opposite this is the weird thing people you know i think that's you've i'm comfortable with with all the types of emotions i think i'm lucky like that because some people if someone gets emotional in front of them they kind of climb up and they find it awkward and difficult i've definitely never had that i think i'm an easy person to open up to and that probably helps yeah me do the job um but you know the thing with when people get upset like we always see if they want to stop and we'd always check that they're comfortable with it you know I mean we're not kind of going oh great this will be brilliant yeah and then yoink we've got that now that's job but I do I don't think you'll mind me saying but when Jack Thorne was on Jack yeah he's a fantastic writer just been on and everything's working on the new Beatles films now how is he doing those right he's doing yeah uh amazing and jack got very emotional and there was this and so uh we said you know do you want to stop and he was like no i'm okay and there was at the end where we're like he'd been really quite uh you know teary and we said oh are you okay with us using that jack and there was this brilliant moment where he switched from being the person to being like jack thorn like he's the creator of so many hos and he went oh oh no, use it all, it was great.

42:59It was so perfect. It was like, oh yeah, of course, that's why you're you. So he was fine with it, but it's rare that people want you to stop. And Aide, I was kind of intimating to him, are you okay, do you want to continue?

43:12Josh Widdicombe:Have you ever thought, this is some of the worst music I've ever heard in my life? For me, the music always puts you in the atmosphere of the person's life. So one of my favourite episodes, which was not the one like that as a listener rather than as a presenter was have you ever heard Hilary DeVay the trucking magnate and former star of Dragon's Den oh the woman with the shoulder pads the woman with the shoulder pads the late Hilary oh my god was that with you? no that was one of Kirsty's it's so good and so she her music it's all power ballads and it's like because it's perfect for her story and her story her life story is so dramatic because she marries a guy but she finds out he's a bigamist and then there's another family and then she gets really ill and then she gets better and then she becomes a trucking magnate and she's this tiny woman.

44:06It's just brilliant. And then it's like, and now Kirsty, my next track is Simply the Best. It's like, of course, of course it's Simply the Best. It has to be. It has to be Simply the Best. So for me, it's like you really want to kind of breathe in the atmosphere. Because even if the song's bad, the fun part for you trying to work out why it means so much yeah exactly of course and and and i think as well you know that maybe that's the thing because i i play so much music on the radio i'm doing 15 hours a week of music radio on six music like you get very relaxed about you know i don't judge other people's music taste or anything like that because i've got plenty of time to i know what i like and i've got lots of time to show it off i'm not kind of like you're not like you're sure you

44:48Josh Widdicombe:I prefer to take this. This is a much better version of that song. Exactly. But it is exciting when, you know, people take music that I love or that, especially if it's something a bit rare, you know, quite rare that you think, oh God, this has never been on before. That's exciting. I still quite like it when you say, you get a book and the Bible to someone who's completely not religious. Because I always think like, I've just got a Bible with me. Some people don't take the Bible. I thought you'd get a Bible and another book, don't you? You do. You can get the Bible. No, I'll take it. I'm not into it, but I'll take it.

45:20Or another book or another faith text. Oh, right. Or another faith text. Yeah, yeah. Another faith text. Why wouldn't you take one? I think it's got some great poetry in there. Well, exactly. It's something to read, isn't it? It's something to read.

45:31Josh Widdicombe:Whether you're into it or not. Have you done it? No. What, the Bible? Have you done the Bible? I went to conference school for eight years, yeah. Oh, she's done the Bible, all right. Oh, yeah. So when you took the job, did you think, well, there goes me getting to do Desert Island Discs? No, I interviewed Kirsty. So, I mean, there's only been five people who've presented it in 83 years. Oh, my word. So you've got a long haul ahead of you to keep it going. I mean, who knows? But like when Kirsty left, who was my hero, my radio hero, then that meant that I had to do her programme, which I was so nervous about.

46:07And actually, as it turned out, she was quite nervous about it. It was so perfect because, you know, she's like me. I'm much more comfortable asking the questions than being the guest. and so actually that worked out really really well and it was a lovely thing to be able to do and she's got an incredible life you know to talk to her about it was wonderful but yeah there's a tradition that you know when you leave the next person does your episode we all have that dream trip

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48:06Josh Widdicombe:Do your kids listen to that? Do they listen to your six music show? Do they watch the one show? They do. some yes not like religiously or anything no one watches the one try religiously do they no no you can't have that on seriously now if you series think that someone comes to your house immediately enough if you're okay so they do they watch my stuff they they enjoy it and but like it automatically comes on when you've served the kids their dinner doesn't it that's what that's what it's definitely like on that that sort of time is everybody's just settling down for the evening um so yeah they do the funny thing is that for a couple definitely for my youngest a couple of times desert island disc has come up as part of a school project and he's like oh god he's like mortified you know um but but quite funny they're always nudging him like you'll you'll you'll like this and he's like it's mad to be in charge of such an established something that's gone on for so long because there's they're they're becoming less those you know like question of sport ended and that went for years and years those sort of show blue peter you know of the shows that went on for 30, 40?

49:0783 years. I mean, I think the oldest radio programme in the world, arguably. There's one in the States that claims to hold the title. But you're going to steer that ship

49:18Josh Widdicombe:to the 100-year episode. If I offered you now a 17-year contract... Who are you, Peter Rinsdale? The new Director General of you. Turkey Lashank. How many weeks of years is it on? Oh, I think it's... Sorry, we've asked so much about Desert Island. and disperse, it's just such a fascinating thing. It's a lot. I want to say 50. It's most of the year. I feel like we have sort of August off and a decent Easter. So you're constantly reading about people? I read a lot, yeah. Have you ever had anyone on that you actively dislike that you've met in your career and you just had to grit your teeth and plough through?

49:57Interesting question. No, luckily not. But I think one of the interesting things that the job's taught me is that if you really seek to understand someone, it's very hard to dislike them. Really? Even if they have very different views from you. You know, like the more kind of open-minded you are.

50:15Josh Widdicombe:Because you have a lot of politicians on, don't you? Right, well, we've done a few. I've done a few. You do party leaders, don't you, Gemini? Yeah, I did Keir Starmer, and I just did Kemi Bader not recently. And I think it's that thing of like wanting to understand a person as a whole is actually, it's very, very difficult to really despise someone if you've genuinely tried to engage with who they are. Because even if you don't warm to them, you can still see why they're like me. If they said to you, he's got an hour in, Donald Trump's over. You've got to take Trump. An hour? Born in the USA immediately.

50:53Imagine. But that's like, born in the USA, it means the opposite. Yeah, he won't care. Just play the chorus, I'm busy. Would you take it? oh well I mean that's not up to me luckily it's an editorial can you veto anyone off the record there's an editorial process that goes on with desert islandists because it is I mean you know it's such a an important kind of institution Michael have we got editorial process you know you can I can definitely I can yeah we can talk about you know yeah we all as a team think are really great and then and then they go through the process and And is it like a Nando's Black card?

51:32Do you have to wait to be asked that if you ask yourself through your PR, it's an immediate no? I mean, I don't think that's a bad, bad... Is anyone ever on a promo? No, we don't do promos. I was going to say. No.

51:45Josh Widdicombe:And you've got an album out? You've chosen your own album? Have you ever had people choose their own music? Niall Rogers chose nearly all his own tracks. No. But luckily, it's Niall Rogers, so it's fine. It's like David Bowie and Madonna and, you know. Did you mention, did you go, and this is quite I'm not going to say it and Niall Rogers don't play that let's dance no no no what are you going to play that's better than that come on Niall you didn't go oh this is rare this is a rare thing to do well it's one of those funny things it's not against the rules but it but it's you know certain kind of section of the audience I would say don't don't approve of that oh is there a strong online some people don't like it in my experience of doing any radio shows especially on Radio 2 there's quite a vocal contingent that seems to um collect on facebook as opposed to tiktok or snapchat that could be quite vocal how much do you look at those comments react to it or do you completely ignore it i don't look at any comments really um you know that's not my job my job is to like i say to try and understand the person that i'm i'm interviewing that week and i'm just totally focused on them yeah i'm really not focused on myself you know i'm not thinking about i am thinking about the sort of technical things that I'm doing but my focus is entirely on my interviewee the program is about them it's about bringing out the best in them so uh so I and I think for me that's that's a comfortable way to do it you know what I mean I think I guess if I sort of sat and thought about like oh me and like oh what am I doing and what are people thinking like it would just get too difficult right whereas actually I'm better if I'm like a little workhorse if I've got a job i'm fine so it's like your job is to get to know is to understand this scientist's discipline enough to ask them questions about it and know why they don't why they're scared of cheese or whatever it is yeah you know that's childhood trauma yeah that's it normally always is yeah as you'll know from doing the so it comes up in section one comes back in section three can i can i um offer an addition to the format please yes i mean consider it's been going 83 three years and it survived this song without my input.

53:54Obviously, you do like songs and you do like a book you take or something. What about a podcast? A podcast. What podcast would you take with you? Podcast is huge now. It's a new thing. BBC needs to move into the future. People do take, well, I mean, obviously, Desert Island Discs is kind of the original podcast, isn't it, really? Of course. And that people have taken, David Mitchell, I think, took the entire Desert Island Discs back catalogue. he took the archive no no he took it as his luxury item oh as his luxury item is it the writer or the comedian the writer have you had both yes as a kind of as a sort of actually I don't know has David I thought it feels like you're loved because I did Robert oh and David Robert Webb Robert Webb but I remember that the other David Mitchell yeah took the archive of Desert Island Discs as like a history of humanity that's amazing and I always feel like what's lovely is when you're interviewing someone, their family going to the archive, anyone that gets mentioned in their story.

54:54If it's someone they've lost, they're in there.

54:57Josh Widdicombe:People do it more than once as well, don't they? Yeah, I've done a couple of second times. Who's getting the sequel? Esther Ransom I did, second one. Cliff Richard I did his second one. Oh, Cliff. I did Cliff's second one. Surely Cliff chose one of his own, didn't he? I don't think he did. No, Elvis was the only... I remember everything else had changed because the first time he did it, he was maybe just 20. with Roy Plumlee and Cliff chose Elvis both times but all the other discs had changed was what I was saying so I've done a few people's second ones and the most anyone's done it is four times four and guess who that was so even Stevens Arthur Askey and David Attenborough David Attenborough four trips to the island do you know what the fourth time I ask I go do you know what give someone else a chance have you done Attenborough No, I know.

55:49He's still going. He could come back for the fifth. He could do a fifth. Number five. You've got to get back for the five for his hundredth. For the century, yeah. Yeah. So did he change his songs? He might have. I'll have to double check. I don't want to get that wrong. No, yeah. But probably because I did Salman Rushdie recently. Oh, wow. We had him last week. Honestly. No, we didn't. But the mad thing about that was the first trip to the island, he was like, no, no, the Satanic Versus was out. and we were like double checking because we're very, you know, we have to be correct of record and we're like, no, no, no.

56:22It was two weeks before the book came out. So in his head, it was like done and out. Yeah. But actually in reality, he spoke to Sue Lawley just before. So to then interview him like last year.

56:34Josh Widdicombe:Yeah. I mean, like amazing. And all of his songs were bangers. He doesn't like sad songs. So it was literally like, Salman obviously has an incredibly intense, brilliant life. like creatively and personally but it would be like that was Whitney Houston I want to dance with somebody and then you'd have to go into like full on so you got attacked the life of Salman oh my god oh my word he was great he was so much fun so with your kids to get back to that I know we're so interested we've hammered it's an institution isn't it yeah I love it it's like talking about stamps it's so great you know what I mean but I love that I love that how much people love it I've got a question When you found out you were the host, where were you?

57:18On a beach. Well, I'd been on air on Six Music and I got an email from the boss of Radio 4 saying, can you just pop to my office afterwards? It just wasn't the kind of thing that happened to me on a regular basis. And she said to me, you know, like, unfortunately, Kirsty's not too well and we need someone to cover Desert Island Discs. We need someone to cover, but she didn't say the name of the programme. So Desert Island Discs was implied.

57:53Josh Widdicombe:Yeah. And I was like... We dare not speak its name. I was like, you know when you're like, can't be asking me to cover Desert Island Discs, it's like, Kirstie must do another programme. Yeah. Because I was the biggest fan of Desert Island Discs in the world, like super, super fan. And I just went, yeah, yeah, I'll do it. just thinking, I hope it's about something I know enough about. Who was your first one? My first one was Tom Daley, the diver. Oh, what a lovely entry to it. He's a nice boy. Pre-knitting that was, getting back on to about knitting. It was, yeah, absolutely. There must be people you've interviewed and gone, I've totally forgotten that.

58:33I do tend to remember quite well. There was a two week period or a week or something where I was at work where I knew I had cancer I hadn't told anyone and I was still at work and I can't remember anything about the whole time any of the programmes that I made during that period so there's two weeks that I can't remember because I think I was just under so much stress everybody else I remember How much time did you have off when you was on Will? Oh it was like four, three, four months I was in hospital for a month and then maybe three months after that something like that

59:10Josh Widdicombe:and was a lot first day back Cher

59:16I'll leave it out Cher I've had three months there's no there's no like phoning it in it's like she will not be using anybody's surnames yeah be ready you need to know that David is gaffing they used to date but they don't oh my word is it filmed now or is it still just audio it's just in the room which is which is lovely

59:39Josh Widdicombe:and there what can i ask about um your cancer yeah yeah what was it what was it like when you had to tell your family was that really difficult that was the hardest thing yeah absolutely that was the most difficult thing um and there'll be parents watching this listening to this who have to go through that and it is so hard i mean it's the worst yeah maybe the worst thing about it happening is having to tell your kids so we'd uh had you know my dad had died my mom had died and And then I got a diagnosis. It was so difficult. And it all happened in quite a short space of time. And they're sort of teen, tween ages, the kids?

1:00:16They were. Well, it was a couple of years ago, so teenagers. And so what can I say? The really good thing was when my dad had died, I had started having a bit of therapy. And I'd been discharged. I'd had a bit of bereavement therapy. And then my mom got ill. And I was looking after her. and she was living down in London, you know, close to us, with us for a while and then close to us. And so I'd gone back to therapy to help me figure out, OK, I've got this, I've got a very full-on career, I've got the kids and everything, how do I manage it? And that was invaluable. I'd been discharged again, but then when I was diagnosed, my GP, who was the one who referred me for the test that diagnosed me, which was just like a complete, you know, nobody was expecting anything.

1:01:06I was just caught on a checkup kind of thing. He got in touch with my therapist and said, Lauren's been diagnosed. And she messaged me straight away and was like, I'm here if you need me kind of thing. And so me and my husband went in and talked to her. And the only thing we were worried about was how do we tell the kids? How do we get that right?

1:01:27Josh Widdicombe:And did you know at this point that it was treatable? At that point, I didn't know anything. So I didn't know, you know, I knew I had it, but I didn't know whether I was going to be all right I didn't know what that looked like what the treatment would involve nothing so you know it was really good to a have the support and be to get advice about you know how to talk to the kids how did you approach it so she said uh the best thing that you can do is to like know what you're telling them right so you want to give them as much certainty as possible so for us that meant waiting until we knew what we were dealing right yeah so they're not put into a limbo like you so i knew i was very very lucky i found out quickly that i was going to be okay that it was very treatable and that i was going to be fine so i could tell them that so so know what you're telling them yeah um and be as honest as you can obviously age-appropriate language and everything but be be straight with them um and you know let them ask anything that they want to ask and so so that was how we went into it and it was really difficult telling them but I'm glad that I waited until I kind of knew more rather than rush into it and I would also say that um I was lucky because I had a therapist I could talk to but Macmillan the Macmillan helpline are fantastic oh really and they have lots of really good advice and on the website for parents uh about how to talk to their kids about their cancer treatment and diagnosis um so yeah i mean you know this is the thing and that's being a parent right like you know you like life happens and the kids were amazing you know they knew i was going to be all right but it was obviously incredibly difficult for all of us my eldest son was going through his gcse's that summer so i think i think his results came in the day i had my operation so I was lucky I had it was just surgery that sorted me out but I was in hospital for a month but you know it was a lot of pressure for him that day and he was just incredible did you tell them together?

1:03:37we told them together what was it for him on that day? your mum just got into operation most kids want to keep their parents happy and show I've worked hard so he's got that pressure of these results and if they're no good he can't take that to his mum in hospital with bad ones and he'll feel the guilt it's horrible i could have rung up for clearing though couldn't i if he needed to go in some good drum joker you've still got that place of durham going from her yeah but the thing is it's you know i think actually in a weird way the sort of silver lining is it may it really gives you a perspective a sense of perspective so when you're saying you do worry about you know what your kids are going to do and like i just want them to just be near you and happy be together enjoy life you know obviously yes i want them to get good jobs and be fulfilled and all that kind of stuff but actually what matters most is their relationships you know their like their safety yeah their emotional equilibrium and their happiness so i think you know even though going through that was really awful as a family actually we all learned a lot from it and yes and actually it sort of opened up a dialogue like a way of being able to talk about your feelings yeah that is really good really useful especially for boys i think who who can tend to bottle things up, you know.

1:04:50Josh Widdicombe:Oh, my God. That's a really tough thing to have to go through. It was hard, yeah. It was really hard. Yeah. Oh, wow. We've covered a lot, Lauren. We have. We've covered a lot. I mean, too much Desert Island Discs, but that was our interest. And now the song you've chosen, Scatman. Scatman, John. Yeah. I'm a Scatman by Scatman, John. Sorry, it's I'm a Scatman, sorry. Do you have the eight songs in your head that you know you're going to choose when they take over? I think for me, it would be different every day. there'd be a couple that would always stay but I think because there's so much music is such a big part of my life of course it can only really be a snapshot I think do you get anyone coming up to you going I can't believe I picked that song yeah I regret it can I change it have you ever heard Judy Dench's episode no it's in the archive so it's another one of Kirsty's but it's so great but she hates all her music it's so funny what when she's doing it yeah it's so funny and she's in there she's going oh no oh no oh no She's forgotten she picked it.

1:05:45She hates it. And Kirsty's like, well, you know, it's just so funny. Amazing.

1:05:51Josh Widdicombe:I was listening to Desert Island Discs once. It was live, so it was on Radio 4. And this shows a slight disconnect between the announcer on Radio 4, whenever this was, about 10 years ago, and mainstream popular culture. He said, next week on Desert Island Discs, the comedian Michael McIntyre. how have you not heard of Michael McIntyre it's a good episode as well actually it is a good episode there's something about him I remember it's not one of mine again but like him hiding in a bush to try and woo his wife yeah he talks quite well also about like other comedians having a go at him and stuff it's really it's a great show it's brilliant I know you're not on for that but I love Desert Island Discs and we're going to take our kids to an art gallery in honour of you and your Clarendon Fine Art Clarendon Fine Art Clarendon Fine Art and do you still go to art galleries with your kids?

1:06:47I do yeah me and my little one we spend because he's really into design we're in the V &A the entire time the various V &As final question? final question we ask him on this what is your partner does as a parent where you go oh my god so lucky to be with him what an amazing parent and what does he do that if he was listening that it annoys you but if he was listening he'd go yeah she's got a point there that is annoying with my parenting oh my god there's so much of both we've got enough time he is he is a really fantastic dad so uh he's got adhd my husband yeah and um one of the things i really love about him is that when you know we were talking earlier about oh people say it's a superpower like it really is sometimes so like on certain things in our marriage we've been married over 20 years now i have never had to book a holiday like have an opinion about white goods that are going to be bought for the house.

1:07:42Like, you know, I don't. Sometimes when we go on holiday, I honestly don't know where we're going. Really? Because he goes so single focus. He's like, in the matrix. At the minute, he's rewiring our front room because we've got a drop-down projector screen and he's moving it from one side of the room to the other. Oh, that's quite sexy being able to do that, isn't it? And he's like putting holes in the ceiling and all the wiring's going through. Oh, my word. He's got these big kind of vintage speakers that he's hooking up and all that. I'd love to make a hole in the ceiling and know what I'm doing.

1:08:12Like, it is. So that, I just think that's fantastic. Like, he's so capable in those moments. So that I really, really love. And then it's probably... As a parent, he's got a book on holidays and making holes in the wall. And as a dad, oh, my, there's loads. I think because he stayed home with the kids while I worked when they were little, I always felt like they had a much more kind of adventurous outward bound early childhood that with their dad than they would have with me like if I'd been home looking after them I think they would have been very safe and always clean yeah we would have fed the ducks like eight million times you know what I mean because I'm like a homebody but he was like they were always out and they were always doing things and and they've got such a close relationship so at the minute like my eldest like i said he's at film school and him and his dad every night are watching like at least two films a night oh wow and it's all the stuff that you love when you're 18 because it's what my kid wants to watch so it'll be like last night they watched like a razor head followed by you know oh amazing followed by uh like oh my god some kind of horror another kind

1:09:24Josh Widdicombe:of horror wow and that's such a nice thing to share with your son yeah absolutely um and it's There's loads of things like that. But then what's the thing that grinds your gears? The thing that grinds my gears. Well, it would probably be the flip side of the ADHD stuff. So he refers to them as like little clues. But like, you know, when he's sort of doing a task, like he'll do it 99%, but then he'll just, so say he'll empty the dishwasher, but like there'll be one pan that's left out on the side. I don't know if it's like he's lost concentration or if he's like just letting you know that I empty the dishwasher like if it's a little bit of a clip but like it's just that thing of like just tying off the project finish the job just completely finishing things definitely he would say yeah that's fair enough brilliant thank you so much it's been amazing I loved it thanks for doing it I'm going to go and see Grace and Perry my daughter ASAP on your say so can't wait that was Lauren Laverne love Lauren Laverne love Lauren Laverne that was great but she's really fun and relaxed and chilled yeah she's you never really know with someone who's on Radio 4 no but because that for me is an immediate probably won't lie the way the way yeah there's different Lauren Laverne parts of her career isn't there if we'd said Rob you're interviewing the host of the one show you'd have gone absolutely great Alex Jones get in here but if you'd have gone Rob you're interviewing someone from Radio 4 you'd have gone all one nervous she's got different vibes well I can't wait till your episode when I'm on it yeah go on and I'm going to go full fucking cock like disgusting full fucking cock cockney not full fucking cock first song pick is fucking cock my luxury item a full fucking cock yeah it's a beat poem I wrote in 2001 set to bongos if Nile Rodgers can pick his own I can too cheers guys and I'll take two Bibles the Bible they give you and a smaller one for walks

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1:12:34Josh Widdicombe:Hello, Parenting Hell listeners. Recognize that voice? Yes, it's Josh Whittacombe here.

1:12:43Josh Widdicombe:I have got a new podcast, Josh Whittacombe's Museum of Pop Culture. And I'm going to say it, I'm about 85 % sure you're going to love it. here are the reasons why. Number one, I'm confident if you're listening now you don't hate me and possibly think I'm funny. Number two, I'm confident if you're listening now you like podcasts. Number three, I'm confident if you're listening to me and Rob, you prefer pop culture to people talking about things, let's be honest, boring things like history, economics, or politics. I know I do and that is why I made this podcast. I wanted a show that tells the stories I love from popular culture in the way other podcasts do for drier topics.

1:13:20Josh Widdicombe:See above. Basically, I wanted a podcast that realised Milli Vanilli were more interesting than Elizabeth I. Join me as I give the definitive, or at least the funniest, takes on Mr Blobby. When Ghostwatch convinced BBC viewers ghosts were real. When a band burned a million pounds for a laugh. The Spice Girls, a truly catastrophic Spider-Man musical with music from U2. And David Hasselhoff, Baywatch, and his part in The Fall of the Berlin Wall. All of them are real, by the way. Either you know what these things are and you're about to learn far more about them than you ever realised you wanted to, or you don't, and you're about to be introduced to some of the maddest things in modern or ancient history.

1:13:58Josh Widdicombe:Stiffnecks will learn, loose necks will laugh. New episodes available every Wednesday and Saturday, perfect to fill those gaps between your weekly doses of parenting hell. So go on, you might as well listen, subscribe and follow wherever you get your podcasts now. Museum of Pop Culture with me, Josh Whittacombe, available everywhere on the 1st of January. you