S12 EP42: Tinie Tempah

24:10This is just me kind of telling myself this, by the way. So I was like delusional to a kind of completely different extent. But that was why I continue telling myself, like, you're going to make art for the rest of your life. And then as you get older, you know, kind of maybe Tracy Emin style, then, you know, people are going to start to think and then the value is going to go up and whatever. So it doesn't really matter about what you're doing for now. It matters more so about me. I'm the one that's on the clock. Do you get me? And I'm the one in the music industry that can age out and that can this and that can that.

24:41But I think over the years, I've began to kind of appreciate that we both have had to make sacrifices. And so we just have to respect one another's kind of passions and ability to work. So there'll be now, there's numerous days in the week where I'll be like, you know what, I'll take the back seat. I'll be at home. I'll do the school run, the pickup. I'll put the kids to bed. You go and do what you need to do. Because I think there is a pressure a pressure in the music industry as well because if you're young and you're cool and especially in like rap music and stuff like that yeah no one's really coming out and rapping about yeah i'm you know doing the school run and having kids ages you up so much and so it's like it's almost like not encouraged to be spoken about 100 or you know in interviews because you've still got to maintain no i'm this cool guy that i want people to want to be like me 100 and not let that side out so there's that that pressure to do that and was that part of why you sort of took a step back as well that you didn't know how to sort of keep me yeah you mate i don't know if it's because we're from a similar area but i feel like you've known me all my life it's crazy like yeah exactly that i was confused after because i was like this is what i want to do and then i did it then i was like how do i move forward yeah what do i like okay this is in my mind i'm telling myself this is a young man's game like this is the narrative this is kind of what people talk about i'm not really occup...

26:03I'm not really operating in that space anymore. I'm in a different space in my life. But then I guess thinking broadly, you know, you had Lil Karno who released his project recently. And I think it was, I think he had his son on the artwork or his son did a bit of the artwork. And I think he was talking a lot about fatherhood. So at the same time, you know, music in the same way, like, you know, TV, film and everything else is always evolving and kind of developing. And so I would say when I first started out, rap was kind of niche and very kind of about a certain type of thing. But from then till now, it's so much more broader.

26:39Well, Loyal Khan is really kind of, he's very open about his relationship with his mum and family. And he's quite kind of emotionally wrought in terms of what he does. Have many of your peers, I mean, obviously he's a bit young, but many of your peers had kids. Do you talk about it? Yeah, so many of my peers have had kids and we talk about it. I don't know if I hear it so much in the music. Like I know Skeptar did a thing where I think he had a video and then he had his pram in the video and stuff like that. And maybe there's some of it in his narrative. But we tend to talk about it more because a lot of people won't know.

27:18But at this stage, you know, there's a few rappers out of the UK that have done really well. So, you know, sometimes there'll be like a barbecue or someone will have a party and then everyone comes round. And the other day I went to see Dizzy at the, what is it, the rugby. And he was performing for, I think it was, there was Saracens versus Northampton. Yeah. And he did a big performance and his kids were there. And my daughter was there as well. I saw him at the garden centre. Dizzy. Dizzy Rascal out for the day of his kids. Yeah, with his kids, yeah. So one of my kids had a birthday party and then he brought his kids and then JME brought his kids as well.

27:57And so I think in the confines of our own kind of private lives, it's all going on. But in terms of like the narrative, and this is why I think it's great that we're talking about this, because I think it's actually progressive to start talking about it, because it's very relatable. And, you know, when I started versus where I am now in my life, as I said, I'm 37, a lot of my fan base would have grown up and will now have kids of their own. yeah so if I'm not sort of talking about it then it's kind of like strained yeah it's inauthentic it's inauthentic with comedy I find comedy and rap similar in a way where you're so that's why you do both even though I think comedy is way harder I agree you do as a comedian is in my opinion the hardest thing to do in entertainment no it's hard to do it well because if I see someone rapping, particularly if they're doing it improvised, I think I can't even comprehend how you would start to do that.

28:59But am I right in saying that some comedy, obviously you'll probably have like a written kind of loose script, but then if someone heckles or if something happens on the night, some of it is improvised. And then remember, you don't have the luxury of having like a backing track or a live band. Rob does. He has a backing track. They're fresh as a full DJ, didn't they? Not during the gig, though, only before. Oh, is that only before? But, yeah, I think it's those elements removed that makes it all the more harder. Well, it's whatever comes naturally to you is easier, whether other people determine it to look difficult or not.

29:32Fair, fair. But I think with the comedy and rap, it's like when you first start out, you've got this ability, whether it's to rap or be funny, and the best ones are themselves. In their music or in their jokes, you feel like you understand the persona and it's them. There's that fire in the belly. And like you say, you've come from a place in South East London and where not many people get to the level and the success you're at now. And during that journey, you will change. It's impossible not to. So you can't come out at 37 and be that 18-year-old kid from your state. Because you're not living that life.

30:01And it just looks forced, it looks fake, and it's too much. 100%. Where you have to take time and hopefully evolve with your act and who you are. 100%. You weren't drinking hot chocolate when you were 21, were you? I bet you was, you know. I probably still was, you know. Yeah. You just wasn't rapping about it. Yeah, just a bit of an old soul, you know. I like what I like. I'm a very simple man. So when you say you're talking, you're going to a barbecue and there's Dizzy Rask on Jamie and stuff, are you all like, this is a bit weird considering where we've come from? There is a bit of that, but then it's also just life, isn't it?

30:32So it's just like... It becomes your normal. Yeah, and to be honest, and this is no disrespect to anyone, but if you've got to a certain age and you haven't done some of these things, you know, like some people have Peter Pan syndrome or some people are so engulfed in what they're doing work-wise, as I'm focused on those people, not those people who actually can't do it. I think it's a bit strange. Do you get what I mean? I think it is a little bit strange. So I think based on the ages that we are and all that's been accomplished, it was inevitable and it makes sense for us to be in that scenario.

31:02So it's not like, wow, like, oh my goodness, we've come from this and now we're here and we're with our children. It's more of a internal acknowledgement. and kind of like gratitude for life and just being so fortunate because there's so many people that grew up around the same place as we did that didn't have the same luck so I think it's that and then every once in a while yes it will be a passing comment but it's not like the norm I've got two questions which I think you're going to think are great one what was it that tipped you over to go fuck it, I'm definitely having this time off. I don't care what the consequences could be with not being relevant anymore, losing record deals, people not caring.

31:49And then how are you feeling now about potentially going back in? Now you've got this sort of, you're rooted in with the kids, you've been there day in, day out and had this time off to go off again with this new album and a new tour. How does it make you feel? Rob, those are great questions. Thank you. Oh, shove it out of your ass. Lovely, isn't it? Okay, so I got to a point where, although from the outside looking in, everything was going super well, I could do no wrong, you know, seven number one records, sold out the O2, sold out Wembley Arena, did Glastonbury, did our residency in Ibiza, first artists like myself to do it on a high level in Ibiza.

32:30But then personally, I felt very robotic. I felt like and drained and exhausted. I felt like I used to wake up every day and just constantly, even though it was my ultimate choice, but I felt like I was constantly being like, like someone was just dictating my day. Yeah, you're on a conveyor belt. Yeah. And then it's not like I wanted to live the life that all my other schoolmates were living or whatever. It wasn't necessarily that. But I just felt like, you know, you can't just wake up and just do this every day. and then you kind of have like a false sense of reality and a false perception because not many people are living how you live.

33:09So your norm is not like, when you're trying to have like a relatable conversation with your schoolmate, it's just going into the air because you're living completely different lives. Like how much longer can I do this for? Especially when I'm in a place where, I wouldn't say like not enjoying it is the right term, But I just don't feel fulfilled. Like I don't feel connected to it. I don't feel as connected to it. I feel like I'm a hamster on a hamster wheel and I'm reaping the benefits. But so many other people that are attached to what I'm doing are also reaping the benefits. And am I doing it for me?

33:49Am I doing it for them? Am I doing it because I don't want to let them down? Like the fact that I was even thinking about all of that stuff for me was enough to be like, Like, okay, mate, do you know what I mean? You've found someone lovely. Like, just chill out, do some normal stuff, go on normal holidays where you're not just going from, like, airport to venue to soundcheck to doing the show, back to the hotel, back to the airport. Like, just take a break and just do some normal stuff. And you might hate it. You might love it. Let's see. And then I think getting back to it now, like, one of the thoughts or epiphanies I had is, you know, I've done all this cool stuff and I might have kids and they might not ever experience it.

34:33It might just be a thing that happened in the past. Yeah. That was one of the, that was one of the motivations. There's so many more motivations like, you know, which we can go into. But in relation to like kids and being a parent, that was one of the things like, wow, like I've done all this cool stuff. Like, and my kids may never directly experience it. it would just be something i told oh you know this venue here that we've gone yeah daddy sold it out before like no i can't do that i'm not old i'm not 50. i'm not do you know what i mean i need to apologize for those 50 year olds listening yeah but you know what you know yeah you know as you were saying as a rapper you know aging out and all this kind of stuff i was like no man like there's rappers that are as successful if not more successful than me that are older than me like much older than me.

35:22So why stop? And then I looked at like my monthly listeners and at the time I was on 4 million or something like that. But now we're like at 6.7 or something again. But I was like, rah, like I've still got like millions of monthly listeners. People that are just listening to all my back catalogue. I kind of owe it to my kids and I owe it to these amazing fans to kind of get back into the mix. And so the other day when we did the Sidemen show, I was able to bring my kids along and they were able to kind of watch it and some of my nephews and nieces and whatnot and they were able to watch it and like i don't know what it's going to do to them like because they're still at ages where they can't totally like explain or articulate how they felt or what it means to them but i'm so glad that like i made that conscious decision and that i had that thought because being motivated by your family and by your children i would say is one of the one of the most powerful forms of motivation, like wanting to do things for them.

36:20And also, if I'm just being totally honest, I think whether or not I came back to music, they would have been fine anyway. But knowing, you know, us, especially us to growing up in a similar way, knowing that through the success of like, you know, music and the arts, I've been able to create social mobility for my immediate family and open doors that would have never been open to us before. like I want to be able to do the same thing for my kids. Like I know that I can pick up the phone to across any sector, TV, film, film might be a bit harder. TV, TV, podcasts, yeah definitely podcasts. Fashion, music and say, oh, you know, my kid wants to come and do like a work experience thing here where they want to come and see how this works or, and the doors would be open.

37:13and like I said I think I would have still been able to do that had I not returned but I think returning makes it a bit more easier like he's still in the mix like you know we might need to him to return the favour and also having between one and five children holidays aren't cheap they're not yeah they're not cheap that's also the other thing yeah man you need to keep going because yeah life has its costs and expenses and the lifestyle you're living as a kind of single man or a man with a misses just kind of going on holidays and staying five ten days or whatever when you've got kids it's a completely different thing yeah what are your plans musically then for this year like how do you how do you mastermind a comeback like that wow um so a lot of it is um trial and error i think it fundamentally starts with having what you believe is a very good product which i would say over the last year or two years i've been working on in the background so once we set up the studio which was three years ago.

38:12I remember us building it. I was doing all the extension programs. So I was in my kind of like DIY kind of mindset. So I was like, we've spent a shit ton of money on the studio. I'm not going to pay some like, you know, studio type interior designer to come and do it. We are capable. We'll do it ourselves. So we're doing all the DIY, sanding the floors, painting the walls. My engineer slash really good friend, Richie is way more capable at DIY than I So he was picking up the lion's share. I was kind of his assistant. And then shortly after that, artists started coming through the doors, as they say, you know, build it and they will come.

38:48So artists are coming through the door. We started getting traction. And I started hearing all these like bangers coming out of all these rooms while I was like painting walls. And I was like, wait, hang on. I've been tricked. Like this is mental. I need to be in there doing what they're doing. Do you get what I mean? Because I can still do it. So slowly but surely came up with what I believe I believe it was a very good product. Initially, I wanted to talk about family and there is a tinge of it in there. And I wanted to talk about, you know, what my life was then like them versus what my life was like now.

39:22But then I personally felt like, again, going back to that mindset of thinking like the whole world revolves around you and whatever, I thought it was a bit too indulgent. And then there was a little bit of a train of thought of what you were talking about, Rob, when you were saying like, who wants to hear that? Do you get what I mean? I mean, that's not really the narrative of rap. That's not what you want out of rap. So there was a bit of that. I think my next project will be more like that. But this one, I found that I was making more dance leaning music. And I felt like I was kind of a bit perturbed by the idea that we've lost like a thousand nightclubs in the UK since the pandemic.

39:59And we're losing three nightclubs a month. And they're saying that by 2029, there'll be hardly any left. And so I was thinking of it as, okay, when I was 16, 17, 18, making my tunes, where these were the spaces where I would go and test out my records. These were the spaces where sometimes I'd do it for free. Sometimes I'd do it for a couple of hundred quid. Sometimes I'd get booed. Sometimes there'd be 12 people there. Do you know what I mean? But it gave me the thick skin that I've got now. It allowed me to accumulate my 10 ,000 hours. and if we lose these kind of physical spaces where you know people of all different races backgrounds ages are allowed to converge and enjoy music and be in this flow state and let loose granted everything is digital now and so arguably you can still do the same thing and still and arguably get even more reach but how are we gonna be able to create artists that maintain longevity because what I'm seeing now is artists that you know make a huge splash across social media yeah and then come with one or two records but then because they haven't necessarily built like a core fan base so they don't have other experience in other areas of the industry you know communicating well performing well stage presence etc dealing with rejection and this and that and that um it tends to be not all the time but in my opinion seven eight times out of ten it tends to be short-lived.

41:30So I was like, we need to preserve these spaces. And I kind of want to highlight that in my music. And so I crafted this kind of dance leaning project where I'm celebrating all the dance genres that I've heard from basically when I was a lad to where I'm at now, whether it be, you know, grime, dubstep, tech house, drum and bass, all of those kind of sonics. And then I've basically sort of conceptualized it where it's like a theme of like a crazy night out. So, you know, you're getting ready, you're texting your mates, you're working out where you want to go, you get to the first bit, it's a pre-drinks or a meal situation, then you end up at the first thing, it's either a gig or it's a big club night, then you end up at the after party, then you end up somewhere else and then it's, you know, the sun's coming out and you're like, what the hell has happened?

42:21And also, I think that, you know, over the last couple of years, is going out and a nighttime kind of culture has started to have like a negative, there's negative connotations around it. It's like, you know, it's not great for the society. It's just people having to piss up and leads to all of this other kind of antisocial behavior. But like the arts in the UK is one of our biggest exports. It's like a huge soft power of ours. And some of these venues are iconic venues and they're going rapidly. Like I saw that in Germany, Berlin specifically, they got UNESCO to come and kind of put this, give this special title to their techno scene, like make it like a protected, like a protected sort of heritage place of influence or something.

43:08I don't, I can't remember the exact term, but in my mind, I was like the UK for all the bands and DJs and acts that we've had come out of all of these little pockets of Bristol or Devon or London or Manchester or whatever, we should be preserving it and protecting it in the same way. This is the mad thing about the UK is you go, it's the thing we do the best in the world. Trust me. From literally, from the Beatles, which is the biggest band ever. Ever, yeah. Like, the money they will have brought into the UK is insane. 100%. All the way through, and it's still going. Look at Elton John and Ed Sheeran now, like different ages but smashing it with a set or like Adele or like Harry Styles whenever we do we do the biggest we punch so much bigger than our weight from such a small island yeah it's insane it's like it's not celebrated enough not at all and if you're not in that sort of five percent of artists that you've named yeah your the reality is you're earning the majority of your income from live from live performance yeah and so if we lose all these venues and you have nowhere where to play.

44:15Yeah, lives where it's at for money now, really, isn't it? lives where it's at for money and you're killing the spaces where people can earn a living. So it's just a bit shit, mate. So I was like, you know what? This feels like something that I'm passionate about. This feels like a message I can convey. It's definitely been a part of my come up. Some of my biggest records, Mind Me To I B Far with Swedish House Mafia, Drinking From The Bottle with Calvin Harris have been Dance Leaning Records. Like, let me just do this. So that's kind of where I'm at now.

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46:08And what do your kids think about your music? Great question. and they think I'm the best artist ever. Fucking 2-1. They think I'm the best artist ever. I think they wanna, I think really one of my daughters wants to say that Justin Bieber is the best artist ever. But you won't let her? But no, it's not that I won't let her. I think she just feels bad. Oh, right, yeah, yeah. Cause she always goes, oh, you know, first it's you, then it's Justin Bieber, but I can see the look in her eyes. She's lying. So if you're in the car and you're driving them along and you say to them, what should we listen to?

46:39Would they say Tony's hand? they say daddy play wonder man play wonder man play wonder man yeah so wonder man is their go-to track um and they watch the video and i did that video years ago with ellie golden and we we um i forgot the film that we referenced but it was one of these films from back in the day about this bionic man i think it was the bionic man there you go so there's lots of like special effects oh i'm gonna ruin the illusion for them now but there's loads of special effects where I'm jumping out of helicopters. Oh, so you like watching all that? Yeah, so they're watching it and they're like, Daddy, is this real?

47:13Yeah. Did you really do that? I'm a superhero. I'm like, yes. Yes, I am. Music videos don't really happen anymore now, but you think it's mad because more it's just people sing a couple of lines from a song in a TikTok. Yeah. More so than the full video. 100%. It feels like there's a massive... I don't know, because I... Does it feel like a different industry that you're coming back into? It feels like a different industry, yes, entirely pretty much. I'm fortunate because again during my hiatus I also set up a publishing company so we like a lot of people It's the busiest hiatus anyone's ever had I know but I'm just like I can't be idle the devil makes work of an idle hand so I can't be idle like I have to do stuff but in that interim period we ended up producing tracks for Drake like one of our producers made Passion Fruit for Drake which is Drake's like third biggest song ever so from out the gate like we were already doing really well Chris Brown, Sean Paul, we've got a Drake and Michael Jackson car.

48:06Like we've, we did, we've done quite a lot of stuff. So in with, with both of my hats on, like almost like an exec and, and then a front man artist, the industry is not a hundred percent different, but if you're an artist that's trying to break through now, it's a completely different time. It's entirely saturated. Before we had a different type of gatekeeper, like a more traditional gatekeeper, which I don't necessarily agree with. But I think what was interesting about the time is to cut through, you felt like, you know, the old guard had to acknowledge you, the fact that you were talented. And therefore, because you were talented, and this is just my opinion, no disrespect to anyone, but because they believed you were talented, then you would now get these opportunities where by now I think it's a mix of a bit of a popularity contest.

49:01who's the most popular, who's getting the most engagement, regardless of the quality of the actual product. Is it more about how do I sell this now than it is about the product? Yeah, I think so. I think your product doesn't necessarily have to be great, but if you're a great marketeer and you have a great engaged fan base, you could be maybe not operating at the same scale with the Beatles, but in theory, you could be selling out some of the same venues. We've got a bit of a fan base from this. What do you reckon are the chances of me and Josh bringing out a swing album together? Why not? Do you like an old rap packed up?

49:35I can tell you why not. Yeah, why not? I can tell you why not. It'd be shit. It'd be shit. Well, you've got the fan base. This is the point. That is it. This is the point. And the thing is, in Britain, we love the novelty records. No, no, no, a bit serious one. Oh. Okay. No, it's funny. That is a comedy. Maybe you could roll it out as a novelty thing. Kim and me, do like Mr. Bojangles, you know, My Way. Me and Mrs Jones. You singing my way in a full tuxedo on a stage black and white shot. Brilliant. What I will say about what you're saying. Do you want to chip in a bit of money on the old angel and accomplish that?

50:08I think I'll leave that one. Okay. I think I'll leave that one. Too many misses already. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Too busy with Drake, are you? No, it's not even that. It's not even that, honestly, Rob. But what I will say about what you're saying is that that is what is exciting about where the industry is at now. If you've been able to get yourself to a certain point, you can literally do anything. and you can just have fun. And so I think where I'm at now, I'm not trying to, I'm doing it because I love it more than anything else. It's the thing that I wake up and I can do, like you were saying about comedy, very naturally.

50:39And, you know, Picasso or whoever, they never stopped making paintings. They didn't get to a point where they were like, oh, you know, I've done 78 now. I said, no, I can just keep going. But the fact that like, you know, you can just kind of do whatever you want as long as it makes you feel good. The barrier to entry is kind of so low now, it's super easy to upload a record onto one of these streaming platforms as opposed to before where you had to press up the CDs and the vinyls. And obviously some people still do that. But yeah, it's the greatest time to be a creative. I think it's just the hardest time to cut through the noise.

51:13Yeah. And what about your kids? Would you feel excited or would you feel like, oh no, if they went into music or I suppose art? I think if my I would prefer and I don't you know want to sound like one of those parents but I think it would bring me more joy if my kids went more down their mother's route of like we want to just make art and like you know we want to kind of exist in that space I think I think I think being an art a musician I think comes with too many superficial pressures it's very look at me look at me it's very yeah for the most part obviously there's artists that you've never seen their face before or whatever, you know, but I think for the most part, it is about image.

51:58It is about, you know, not how much you weigh per se, but, you know, do you look good? You're getting all this direct critique on your comments or you've got a spot here, you know, have you put on weight? Have you, it feels like you have to have super thick skin to be able to kind of survive and navigate that. And I did it because obviously I felt like I had the talent to be able to do it and compete in that space. But I also did it because I was shit at football and I was like, this is probably one of the only things from where I've come from that could change the whole trajectory of my entire family's life.

52:35And luckily we've been able to do that. But I think where my kids don't have those same sort of pressures. Well, that's the interesting thing. Your kids are entering a completely different world in terms of their own families and where they're growing up. to what you did. And how comfortable are you with that? Or is there part of you that's going, you don't understand? Yeah. Yeah, there's a part of me that feels like you don't understand. But I think ultimately, once you have kids, and I think I can kind of speak for everyone here, you kind of just want them to be safe and you kind of just want them to be happy.

53:13And I think the fact that there's a part of me that's like, yeah, I definitely want you to prove yourself. And you know, you've got our DNA. Just drop them in Plumstead Commons. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've taken them there once in a while. Have you taken them? Yeah, of course I have. Yeah, of course. They're like, this is shit. Take me back to the suburbs. Take me back to the pool and the garden. But I think that ultimately, I just want them to be happy and safe. And so whatever brings them the most joy and makes them feel the most fulfilled, I would encourage them to do that. Of course, you know, they've watched K-pop Demon Hunters and now they want to somewhat be artists and they want to do things like that.

53:56But I think I will just try to ensure that I'm kind of around it as much as possible. Not like Michael Jackson's dad or like Destiny's Child, you know, Beyonce's dad, but just kind of like someone that's in their ear and someone that's kind of observing their surroundings and trying to kind of protect to a certain degree from afar. Would you be more, if they went, I want to be a dentist and a lawyer, would there be a part of you that goes, oh, that's a relief? I think so, yeah. I think so, yeah. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, like stay well away from this. We all know the highs and lows of entertainment.

54:32I'm sure we've all been there when the agent isn't calling. It's a dance with the devil. Yeah, it's a dance with the devil, man. It's like we're all super fortunate and blessed to be sitting in this building having this conversation right now with all the years that we've put into this thing honestly how do you feel about returning to live performance because i think that's the one of the hardest things to get your confidence back into because it's a lot of you know a lot of rust when you've not done it for a little while how are you feeling about going back into that it's the absolute opposite really yeah live the live element of it is the bit that i love the most which again is why i feel this project is apt because i feel like my music has been kind of well received but i think until you you see me live, you've not had the full experience.

55:15Like my live performance is off the chain. Like I will say that with confidence with my chest. So getting back to it, like we went on tour in Australia last year. It was the most random lineup, by the way. It was like me, Pitbull, Mariah Carey, Wiz Khalifa. It was a bit of like a throwback thing, but it's the most random. I hardly saw her. Hardly saw her. I saw her performances, but hardly saw her. He's smashing it now and he pitbull. Pitbull is smashing it. Especially in the UK with everyone dressing up with a hat. I will be honest and say he had by far the most fans. Like I've never seen, like the lion's share of the crowd was people in bald caps and like suits and all this kind of stuff.

55:56We've actually got a show in Hyde Park this summer as well. Oh yeah, he's coming up, yeah. BST, yeah. But yeah, I got, so when I did this thing in Australia, I think it was like November or whatever. Like the love was ridiculous. like it was we made like the national news there it was insane and it was just like for me oh you've still got it man like there was there was not an ounce of fear or doubt before i stepped onto that stage that like i wouldn't be able to do what i have done in the past and if anything it makes me want to perform more because i feel like the more that people are able to kind of see that whether it's like online even the sidemen show that i did the other day like it was ridiculous like the halftime show went so well and what's crazy about their fan base is they've got you know a lot of the youth so they've even got like the 13, 14, 15 year olds and the craziest thing happened where I would say 60 % of the people in their chat because it was a live stream was like who the hell is this guy who is this guy who did they bring to do the halftime show who's this old dad and then what was amazing that happened is then you know after about 30 minutes it swayed, it kind of went back to 50-50 and then to like 40-60, 60-40 in my favour.

57:14Like, you don't know who this guy is. Are you crazy? Like, this guy's a legend. He's done this and that and that. When they say, oh, he can do it. Exactly. To them, you're brand new. Exactly. But you've got 20 years of experience of performing that, you know. There you go. So I think, in short, all I'm basically saying is that, like, didn't have any worries there. And in fact, I think that's going to be one of the things that kind of tips it for me, to be fair. I want to talk to you about mindset there, right? Because I think if you... The difference between a rapper approaching that and a comedian, if that had happened to Rob and he told me the story, he'd be like, oh, it was awful.

57:56I was so stressed that I did that. I think it was fine. I think I got away with it. But the first bit was just tragic and everyone was saying, who the fuck's this old person? They're getting a David Dickinson reference and they're on 30. Yeah. Like, who? If I'd done that tour of Australia and I thought it'd gone well and Rob asked me, I'd go, yeah, it's fine. Yeah, it was fine. But the thing is, with a song, a song always works. If it was a hit once, it's always a hit forever, essentially. That's it, my friends. With a joke, a lot of it is the timing of when you're saying that's the answer to your question.

58:25If you had a gig last night and you, even if you thought you smashed it and I came in and I said, how was the gig last night? You wouldn't go, I was brilliant. No, But it's hard to be brilliant just talking at a room. It's like, you know, like if you've got like in a stadium and you've got your, because that's what he's saying, you've got the music behind you and that. I think comedy is a massive head fuck because if it goes wrong, it's all on you where you could fluff a line, but it could get covered. It's not the end of the world. It's not the end of the world. And there's a lot of noise everywhere.

58:55It's just that it's the silence of nothing when you say a joke that don't work that kills you. I'm trying to remember what that's happened before. I think maybe for you guys maybe the kind of deciding factor might be a standing ovation maybe is that what you would how you measure it one day yeah it will soon come also as well though you are and I think you've made the right decision where you're coming into this with an appreciation because you haven't had it for five, six, seven years 100 % where when you're doing it every night it becomes your normal which is mad and our normal is you know you're on this talk at the moment Josh every night you go out to thousands of people make them laugh for an hour and a half and then they have a big cheer, sound of action, and then you go home.

59:34That is mental. Yeah, it's mental. But then when you have a break from it. You get used to it. Exactly. So having that time and that break is so important to be appreciative. 100%. Whatever it is you're doing. 100%. Made me way more grateful for everything. Yesterday I got a second stripe on my purple belt for Jiu Jitsu and I put out a little post on my stories which was like, this season of my life I'm appreciating all the wins, big or small. It doesn't matter how big or small, just because like going back to the kids, once you see the miracle of like childbirth and like that now becomes the most important thing in your life.

1:00:08For me, all I care about is their health and their happiness in their life. I just want them to be happy, healthy. And I want them to be loved and I want them to have peace of mind. Anything that happens for me on top of that is a win. Could be anything. Oh, you've been invited by this company to go on a holiday. I would never take it, but I would be like, oh this is a nice offer i'm really grateful wow especially you know yeah so i'm just in a suit like in this lovely amazing space of like almost zen space of just gratitude and like i'm not necessarily chasing anything like i said we have our own studios gone other days where i've because again i had so much anxiety of like knowing that i was on the clock on someone else's like budget yeah do you know i mean or on my budget but that they were taken from like you know my my future earnings and you you know you you had that a and r the standing there you know hoping that by the end of the session you would have produced a hit i can just walk into my studio now see some of the best artists in the uk occupying some of the other rooms take off my shoes be there for the entire day and if something good comes out of it it's great if not i'll come back tomorrow and try again did you yeah did you do any therapy in your time off or is this all your own thing no i did i did And would that be sitting down talking to a therapist?

1:01:23At the time, because it was like pandemic times, a lot of it was Zooms. Ah, okay, yeah. And that's really helped. Yeah, I think so. I think so. I think, yeah, I think therapy is good because, again, what we do, of course, is a community of us, but it's quite a lonely... Yeah. Do you kind of agree with that? Lonely in the job, but also lonely in your journey. Yeah, it's quite a lonely journey. You show me someone else that come from where you come from, living the same life you've got. Yeah, it's kind of lonely. One of my best friends, or best friends from school, is in prison for life. Like, English lad, he's in prison for life, and we speak on the phone once a week.

1:02:03On a Sunday, we get on the phone. And again, it's that same thing. Like, wow, I saw, oh, you did Dragons' Den, because obviously he's watching the TV. Oh, I saw you did Dragons' Den. Oh, I saw your performance on Graham Norton. Oh, this is so sick. It's such an emotional time in my week. Yeah, because I'm like, oh, bro. Like he was even around from Pass Out. Like he ended up going to prison just after Pass Out. I remember I met him in Newcastle. He came to see like almost like the official launch party. Then after that he was gone. So we talk on the phone and I'm just like you said, there's a kind of survivor's guilt there where it's like, oh, wow.

1:02:38Like I just yeah, I can't believe that I'm everything I'm telling you is like stuff that you would have never imagined. And you're you're kind of where you are and you're not able to experience this or kind of do it for yourself. So I think therapy was great because yes, it's super lonely in the journey and we're very fortunate and privileged in various ways. Very lucky. Very lucky. But it's nice to kind of just express yourself to someone who they probably are judgmental. They probably are super judgmental. But yeah, they're probably talking to somebody who's worse than me as well. I'm not going be the worst conversation I've had this day.

1:03:18I like that. Depends on the week. Did you guys do therapy as well? Yeah. It's really helpful. What motivated you to do it? Oh, I was in a dark place because I hadn't decided to take seven years off. So I was everything that you were trying to avoid. Burned out, totally lost in it, completely hyped by the whole thing. Couldn't get out of the mindset of it all. But I would never have been able to take that time off. I was not in the place where I... I find that very impressive. Yeah, I blew much of my worth, still now, probably, in work. Not like I did then. Not at all like I did then. But then it was out of control.

1:04:08Yeah, but with what you're saying, there's a point where it starts to define you and and then your value kind of is directly associated with that. And I was very worried because this thing is so up and down. So if all of a sudden you're not doing venues to thousands of people... And that will happen. Yeah. So then what does that mean? What does that mean about who you are as a person? Am I just trying to keep this going to avoid this pain? Yeah, I guess that's the question, isn't it? Maybe I need to be in a position where this is going to happen and I actually am not putting my whole worth in this.

1:04:40Yeah. and then you have to I'm not telling you what you have to do but I think for me I realized that I have value as Patrick I'm just I'm a person I'm a man I'm a I'm a son I'm a father I'm a brother do you get me and I'm a friend to so many different people whether I'm this like high-flying musician or not and to kind of get back to that kind of essence of who you were originally I think is a very important thing man. I think you need a comedy name so because of these Patrick but tiny temper and then at least you've got a little bit of differentiation. So there's Josh but there's not Josh. Yeah yeah.

1:05:18I think it's too late to rebrand. It's never too late. It's never too late. It's never too late. Trust me. Final question Tani we always ask this to everyone. Patrick. Patrick what's the what's the one thing your partner does as a mother that you think that's amazing I'm so lucky to have kids with you and what's the one thing she does that's slightly annoying and if she was to listen now she'd go he's got a fair point yeah um i will start by saying she she is very intentional with them she kind of listens to everything that they say like she wants to know everything that happened at school like every down to every last detail which i think is absolutely amazing because for a long time i did not have the capacity for that i mean what happened what did your friend say what happened what did the teacher say this and that and that amazing I like the fact that she also will just make stuff with them, like create with them, draw, like let's just draw, let's just play with Play-Doh, let's just, oh, what did you make today?

1:06:15Let's do that. I think that's incredible. And then the thing that I'm a little bit perturbed about is that she gives them lots of chocolate and sweets in the mornings, in the mornings. So I'm sure she will hear that and be like, that's a fair point. I'll never be able to get my head around it. It's hard to defend chocolate to kids in the morning. yeah well good I'm glad I've got you know when you're brewing up hot chocolate in the other part of the kitchen do you know what I usually have my hot chocolates in the evening oh not afraid of the sugar before bed you know what I should probably be but as I said I don't have sugar in anything else pretty much apart from natural sugars yeah don't like if I ever have tea don't put sugar in the tea don't have too many desserts so this is the one thing one little thing Tidy absolute pleasure enjoy any live shows so they can go and see you as well?

1:07:05Yeah, I mean, come and see me at BST. Come and see me at Boardmasters. If you're up north, because I'm sure you have loads of northern fans. Absolutely, yeah. Come and see me. I think we're doing a BST in Leeds or something. So come and see me there. And then we will be, I will be doing my own tour back end of the year. I think we're going to be touring again in November. Wicked. Come on the socials and they'll find out. Yeah, exactly. Just hit me up. Come and fire me, man. I'm here.

1:07:34Spring just slid into your DMs. Grab that boho look for that rooftop dinner, those sandals that can keep up with you, and hang some string lights to give your patio a glow up. Spring's calling. Ross, work your magic.