A Response to Hasan Piker

29:13This dude was, you know, he was a guerrilla fighter. He was, he was running the torture programs before he took over the whole country. But so essentially what they did right during the, the great leap forward is they, so they collectivized all of the farmland, meaning the state took over ownership of everything, of everything. And they went from farm to farm to farm and kicked all of the peasant farmers off of their farms. They collected their pots and pans. They took everything and they forced them onto these like huge collectivized farms. And then all of the grain that everyone produced was to go right to the state.

29:59And if people were caught hoarding any grain of their own or trying to trade on their own, they were murdered or tortured. By the way, one of the things Mao Zedong really loved was torture for the sake of torture. So he would at times torture people to get confessions that implicated other people. He knew it was a phony confession. He knew the other people weren't implicated, but he'd torture that guy to get the confessions, to go torture all these guys just to show his power. He wrote all about this. You know, this is his whole, you know, political power comes out of the barrel of a gun thing.

30:29It was like violence leads to power. Violence for violence sake leads to power. Intentional. But talking about the other. So then he collectivizes all the farms, right? And this is goddamn proven in the record. People start, as you can imagine, everyone starts starving to death. You're not producing grain anymore. And every successful farmer has been accused of being a greedy capitalist or something like that. So anyone who's good at producing food has probably already been tortured and killed. So then you're well aware that people are starving to death as this is going on. You know it's not working, but you keep doing it because, again, Hassan can say, oh, what was his mentality?

31:07That was so great. Let's keep doing it. Well, no. I mean, I understand you think like a child, but no, that's not exactly his mentality. His mentality is something about how he'll be the great leader who rose China up. And then when his plan is resulting in starving people to death, he has to cover that up and have all of his state-run newspapers in the city's lie and tell you how great it's going. OK, because the bird thing, I don't know if you guys know about this, 1958, the sparrow thing that that Hassan keeps, you know, kind of jokingly bringing up that was designed to cover the tracks of how bad this socialist system was going.

31:41So what happened is people started starving to death and then he started saying it was the sparrows, you know, because now you got one communist madman who's in charge of a country. It's just he's making all the decisions now. Right. So he decides it's the sparrows. That's why people are starving to death. It's these damn sparrows keep eating all of the crops. And that's why we don't have enough food. So he now, which the entire collectivized enslaved economy, this is all Maoism was, was enslaving the entire country. Literally, you didn't get to pick your job. They put a gun to your head and said, you now work in this collective farm.

32:14You now work in this factory. You didn't get to pick anything. Total enslavement of the population. So he decides to have everybody start killing the sparrows. But he's such a fucking retard. But he doesn't understand that the pharaohs kill the insects that do this other thing that all is big ecology that result. You know, like, I don't understand this shit either. But I'm also not a communist dictator who's telling you to just go kill one species of bird. And so it resulted in this goddamn catastrophe where millions more people starved to death. Now, if you want to call that unintentional, Netanyahu's got a beachfront property to sell you in Gaza.

32:50It's about as unintentional as what Netanyahu just did to Palestine. It's unintentional like that. You know, like I come into your house, I put a gun to you in your family's head and I force you to get into my basement and then everybody's starving to death in my basement because there's not enough food. I'm well aware of it. And I go, fuck them, let them starve to death. That's what Mao Zedong did. Said in his own words, he could lose half his population as long as he achieved his goals. That's who you're, you're saying that wasn't intentional? and again he has no idea what we're talking about when we say you're minimizing this but that's the minimization of it obviously all right guys let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show which is troll co let me tell you about a brand that actually gets it troll co was built by two guys from the oil patch who were sick of clothing companies pretending blue collar workers didn't exist while most brands chase trends and influencers troll co was made for the people who work with their hands, solve real problems, and keep the world running.

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34:32That's trollco.com slash problem, promo code Dave25 for 25 % off your first order. Troll Co. Dirty hands, clean money, support a brand that supports real people. All right, let's get back into the show. All right, let's keep playing.

34:55Is this on mute? Or is he just not talking? This all came up because you were a drunk. Sorry. I know. I know. Like the tortured logic behind connecting me to like atrocity propaganda is so, so weird. I don't know how to, like, I don't know how to respond to it. I'm like, I don't, like I have no, like, I don't know what you want me to say. If you want me to say like, no, he was a bad guy. He's the worst guy. He's the most genocidal guy in history. It's like, that's a fucking ridiculous statement. If you want me to give you a pause it right there. That's what we're talking about. I know you don't know.

35:32I know you don't know. You don't cause you don't know stuff. You think that's a ridiculous statement? No, it's not. He look objectively speaking. He's the worst. He killed more than anybody else. But subjectively speaking, look, I mean, this isn't really even a left right thing. You could be a pretty far right wing guy and still acknowledge that Hitler's Nazi Germany was a catastrophe. You could be a pretty far left wing person and still recognize that Stalin's Russia was a catastrophe. thing. This is, you know, there's, I don't know, what is there in the world? There's like 170 sovereign states or something like that over, you know, the history, there's been like hundreds and hundreds of different sovereign states, like three of them or four of them have ever gone this bad.

36:22It's like amongst the, there is just no question that it's amongst the worst, most, he's amongst the worst, most brutal, most intentional genocidal leaders of all time. Now, I think, like, I would say he is the worst. I think if you were taking that work, like I'd argue, it's like arguing Michael Jordan's the greatest basketball player of all time. I think that's the correct argument, but someone else could take LeBron. Someone else could take Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. You know what I'm saying? Like someone else, but there's only a few who you could take. You run out of names real quick before you get to them.

36:57And he's like, no, you cannot say that one's worse. It's him, Stalin and Hitler. Maybe you want to squeeze Pol Pot into the conversation or something. And if you're really being generous, I'll throw the North Koreans in there. But that's about it. Like the most brutal genocidal leaders of all freaking time. You know, okay, if you want to get into Genghis Khan and the way he conducted war and go, but like, no. So to just say here, oh, what do you want me to say? He was like a genocidal awful guy. That's ridiculous. No, it's not. And that's the minimization. And by the way, if someone said the exact same thing about Adolf Hitler, you would very clearly see that you're minimizing it right okay so that's the point we're making again read one thing about now not written by a communist here let's keep playing truthful analysis like there were a lot of excesses a lot of excesses that led to millions of deaths okay okay pause it Pause it.

37:57Pause it. Okay. Hassan, there were a lot of excesses in Gaza. Okay. There were a lot of excesses in Gaza. Am I minimizing it? Or am I really accurately describing what happened there? You tell me. You tell me. The excesses. The excesses were the mass murders. All right. Let's keep playing. a consistent toll with rapid industrialization and collectivization that took place in in the aftermath of every uh successful communist revolution pretty much every successful communist revolution and part of that is because that collectivization and the industrialization didn't happen with 400 years of colonial exploitation and chattel slavery and there There were a tremendous, a tremendous amount.

38:52Oh, okay. So pause it. Oh, pause it. Oh, so that's, oh, Jesus Christ, is that rich? Oh, so the only reason why, okay, okay. So the reason now, this is the cope, chattel slavery and imperialism. So that's why Mao had to torture all those people who spoke up against his political program. You know, it's just, it's because the West, the west had these advantages of imperialism and and chattel slavery i mean look i don't even know what imperialism he'd be talking about exactly in america i mean like there was some imperialism in south america and stuff but you're talking about imperialism like pre-industrial revolution um it's a pretty tough argument i mean obviously with the british and the french they were empires for a long time, but not America.

39:42So that's not really the thing. Slavery, connect that dot for me, you know, like, like, even like in America, right? Like, I don't know as much about England, but in America, right? Like the industrialization happened in the North. Draw me a straight line between where slavery gave us a bigger advantage. Well, hold on. There's one other difference that I could maybe think of. I mean, I'm sure it couldn't have anything to do with the fact that in the British and American Industrial Revolution, the factories were owned by businessmen, and in the Chinese and Russian Industrial Revolution, they were owned by the central government.

40:21Maybe that has something to do with the power that the government had to starve tens of millions of people to death.

40:30You know, if a capitalist in England or in America wanted to get farm workers to come work at their factory. They had to offer them wages for it. Mao Zedong could just put a gun to their head and collectivize all the farms. Do you think that might have had something to do with why there was mass starvation and brutal authoritarianism there? That the government ran everything? Nah, it was probably just something white men did. It's just like, does this appeal to anyone except like 16-year-old girls who are mad at their dad? All right, let's keep playing. For tremendous amounts of mistakes along the way.

41:16Right, right. Thank you. That's big of you to admit, Hassan.

41:22None of this is... I don't think this is like a... I don't know. I mean, this is just an analysis of what took place without just like, I don't know, without just being like, Mao personally did this because he just hates people. He hates Chinese people. He wanted to kill as many as he could, you know? Like that is, simply put, the major difference between Adolf Hitler and someone like Mao Zedong.

42:01But I think part of the reason why this is a talking point is because they want to say like Mao did a genocide on purpose. Pause it. Most people. Yes. Listen, Mao did a genocide on purpose. It's a historical fact. This thing that they're doing and goddamn, I got to say it is. And I know you guys have seen it. It's identical to the Zionists. It's identical. where they just, they will insist that our motives are pure, your motives are not. This is what, literally the opening of the debate, what Dennis Prager said to me and Cenk Uygur, one side wants peace and the other side wants war. You know, the thing about it is like they do this all the time.

42:45It's a game that liberals and leftists just love to play. They do it all through COVID. You know, the difference is that Fauci just wants to heal people. They take their group of people and then if they're doing the policy that they want, their motives cannot be impugned.

43:04Mao, dude, the guy was like a torturous madman, a complete, like one of the most sadistic people who ever lived. Loved the suffering of others, but no. What do you think? He did it just because he hated China? Or like somehow it would be okay? You could murder a whole lot of people if you had your heart in the right place? Again, this is the whole world. This is how Hassan justifies himself being a good guy, even though he's a rich kid who's a multimillionaire and lives this extravagant light because I have the good intentions. I fight for the poor. I'm not fighting for myself as he takes another vanity spread.

43:37You know, the thing about analyzing intentions is they're a little bit tricky, right? It's a little bit tough to analyze anyone's motivations. But the idea that like this is the there's really something here that's the essence of something that leftists do, where no matter how brutal a leftist regime goes, they were misguided. Mistakes were made. There were excesses. But if a right winger does something, then they wanted to do it and it was intentional. And that's the difference. Don't you dare just measure the amount of people that they've killed. Don't you dare for one second, you know? All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Cowboy Colostrum.

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45:29Just head over to cowboycolostrum.com slash Dave and use the promo code Dave at checkout. That's 25 % off when you use the promo code Dave at cowboycolostrum.com slash Dave. All right, let's get back into the show. Anyway, let's keep playing. Most people in America would probably agree with that. They would think that that's the case just so they can be like, oh, he's like shitting on Israel because they're, you know, it's the Jewish state. like he's actually the real genocide supporter the the genocide that mal did or something you know what i mean yeah well it's well pause yeah i do i do know what you mean and the thing is that it's not that much different you know i mean look it's the the it's not as bad because the genocide that you're talking about is actually happening right now it's being done to real people by people in power right now and so the people championing that of course are kind of worse you know as I've said for years it's worse to support what Israel's doing in Gaza than it is to deny that Hitler genocide of the Jews but he did and if you deny it you're still denying something that happened in history as you're doing right now what you're doing is indistinguishable from the people who denied Hitler's genocide it's the exact same thing in fact it's literally what they say it's literally what they say that there were excesses that it wasn't intentional you know the numbers are exaggerated it.

46:54It's all the same shit you would say. Literally. And in fact, they claim they starved in the camps. It's literally what the Holocaust deniers say. They starved. It wasn't intentional. It was just starvation. It was economic planning, I suppose. Anyway, let's keep playing.

47:21And he takes a while. also good to point out that the violent industrialization efforts were responsible to severe technological embargoes we put on china then the the then poorest country in the world yeah especially after literally a genocide that the chinese uh people withstood in the hands of the japanese which we pardoned the war criminals who were responsible for doing the genocide like when people talk about mao zedong being this like genocidal warlord monster or whatever no there was a real genocide that took place equivalent in industrial scale and also equivalent in in the the intentionality of that japan did to china to the chinese population like there is a genocide that took place but america just pause it for a second don't know does he i mean dude this guy's like i don't know man he needs to like detox and like clear his brain out so what is he He said there was a real genocide that was bigger in industrial scale, okay, and equally intentional.

48:28Equally intentional to what? Mao's genocide? I thought he just said it wasn't intentional. Was his intentional, but this one's equally intentional, but it was larger in scale? Okay. It was equally intentional, and it was about a fifth in scale. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. yes the Japanese invaded Japan and they were brutal they killed something like 10 million people I think the estimates are 10 to 15 million people the estimate of Mao how many Mao killed is like 40 to 100 million no it was not bigger no it was not it was also intentional but it was like around a fifth of the size of his bag what are you talking about dude like crack a book all right let's keep playing in, in the, the intentionality of that.

49:13Japan did to China, to the Chinese population. Like there is a genocide that took place. Americans don't know. Americans don't know about that either. Like that was an actual genocide. Okay. So pause it again. And the people that was an actual genocide. So like, my God. So are you saying Mao didn't commit genocide? You started this by gasping, not understanding what the claim that you're minimizing this was. Now you're saying he didn't. Listen, again, if your claim is that a lot of people think Mao committed genocide, but he didn't, then just why is this unreasonable for me to say then just own that fucking claim?

49:55But you started this by going, for example, right? Let's say there's someone who didn't commit a genocide. not Mao, not a good example, but let's pick someone who didn't, right? Someone who didn't commit a genocide, but everyone was under the impression that they did. And I was saying, no, he didn't. And then someone on a show said, he's minimizing, you know, the genocide that this guy committed. I wouldn't go, what is he even talking about? I have no idea what he's referring to before I said, I don't think he did commit a genocide. Just come out and say it. You're saying that was a real genocide.

50:29An actual genocide was committed. But then a second ago, you just said they were equal in intentionality. I don't know. Is it not reasonable for me to say, can you guys just say what your fucking position is and then own it so we can argue? All right, let's keep playing. Committed that genocide, we pardoned so that we could take all of their research on biological warfare, the research that we then deployed in Korea where we did what I would consider and what many others would consider a genocide. Oh, we did. Okay, that's a genocide too. Korea is a genocide. Japan invading China is a genocide.

51:17But what Mao did is not a genocide. You're going to get into that at some point? Actually make the argument why? Nah, just kind of feels, bro. All right, let's keep playing. Which is crazy.

51:38And I'm curious whether you as his uncle have an answer to that question. Again, we don't speak for one another, so I don't like. Like my attitude on Mao Zedong is not dissimilar to like every other, uh, every other non-genocidal figurehead throughout history where there's like, there's a lot of violence that took place. You have to look at why said instances of violence took place. Okay. Like, and does it pause it for a second? Wow, dude, Dude, that's really, that's really deep. I look at Mao like every non-genocidal leader. There was violence and you got to look at why violence is taking place.

52:28Okay, but does it ever fuck with you that more people died under his rule than under anyone else's ever in the history of the world? Because that jumps off the page. Like, are you denying the numbers? Is this on actually denying the numbers? because I don't like, like even in the, like the numbers are just so great in Mao's China. Like the estimations are like between 40 to a hundred million people died. Like, so, you know, like I know like in the debate with the, you know, like people who say the Holocaust revisionists, you know, if you want to go down a rabbit hole of like the David Irving stuff, which I have, but I don't find particularly useful.

53:11I'm not recommending it. But if you want to go down that rabbit hole, At the end of it, David Irving is essentially arguing that like three to four million Jews died, not six million. And that it was like Hitler didn't give the order himself or something like that. But there you're disputing over like a few minutes. But when you get to Basel, what is he even claiming? Like the lowest estimates are like 40 million people. Like no matter what you think the numbers are, they're the highest ever. You're just not going to get to numbers that high. There is absolutely no way using the most modest estimates of how many died under Mao and the highest end of how many died under Hitler that you get Hitler touching Mao.

53:50It just doesn't happen. I mean, unless I suppose if you're going to say that the entire Second World War and all the deaths in war. But if we're talking about we're obviously here, we're doing apples to apples. We're saying not dying in war. We're saying dying at the hands of their own government. Because that is, you know, somewhat of a different category. So yeah, I mean, he's a, and even Hitler, right? Like the war is usually not what people think of as his worst. It's the genocide because there's something different about like killing your own people who you're responsible for, not combatants in an, in a conflict anyway.

54:25Yeah. So you just treat him like any other regular old leader. Like, does that make sense to you? Do you, he is saying, I look at Mao Zedong the way I look at any non-genocidal leader. Yeah, there was some violence there. So that's Hassan's analysis here. that, you know, are you talking about Sweden in 19, you know, are you talking about Sweden in the year 2015? Or are you talking about London in 1995? Are you talking about New York City in 1979? Or are you talking about Mao Zedong's China? They're all kind of like similar experiences, similar leadership, a little bit of violence there. You know, I mean, come on, how stupid is this?

55:10alright let's keep playing know what I mean and those guys literally had slaves and committed genocide on the indigenous population

55:30gotta look at the good and the bad you know and tonight the scandal surrounding Dr. Anthony Fauci continues to unravel now as newly released text messages from mom, bro. Get to Larkin, get to Larkin. What the fuck? Speaker 3 0. I thought I, I, there was one part that this is not still, all of this is not the clip that I saw earlier. So let's, let's keep playing. Speaker 3 0.

56:01Oh my Lord. Speaker 3 0.

56:09yeah it is also not the irony is not lost on me that fucking comedian dave smith's entire output is like railing against cancel culture and here he is literally doing that to be like well i don't really fully grasp what you're trying to say about mal um so i think you should be canceled for that I mean just pause it pause it right there pause it right there I mean dude it is just I don't know I it's it's cute when Hasan rubs all his brain cells together to try to get me in a contradiction I have not spent all of my time railing against cancel culture and I in no way called for Hasan to be canceled I'm calling for you to fucking coherently state what your fucking position is dude.

56:55Again, as I said earlier, I'm trying to share a platform with you. I'm calling to cancel you. And it's just like the cheapest, dumbest thing ever. You're minimizing the most brutal dictator in the history of the world. And I'm calling you out for that. I'm not calling for you to get kicked off of a social media platform or banned from everything. I'm not even running from a debate. I'm trying to debate the topic. What an idiotic attempted point that was. Oh, yeah. Comedian Dave Smith. He's against cancel culture, but now he's for cancel. No, just no. There is absolutely nothing that I'm against that I'm like in favor of in this situation.

57:37I'm for embarrassing people with bad ideas who don't know what they're talking about. still very consistently let's keep playing boy my wife's uh great great when lindy lee was younger she protested in favor of mouse china and railed against what she called slander against communist china it wasn't until she did a right-wing pivot that she claims mal is evil yeah she's a huge grifter she also was a bernard sister she she did the right-wing pivot being like the anti-bernie the anti-Bernie like Democrat and now she's like full-blown right-wing grifter

58:16I don't care grandparents on both sides grandfathers on both sides were in Chiang Kai-shek's army they were generals in that army they fought Mao right yeah this is true my aunt is literally from Taiwan so okay but you put family aside I just don't agree with that but guys I don't agree with Tucker's positions on feminism that doesn't mean I'm going to reject them as an ally in the anti-war movement, in the American sovereignty movement. So like you guys are doing cancel culture, but remember, cancel culture is used against all of us. So you don't agree with him on Mao. I don't agree with him on Mao.

58:51So what? No, no, no. But it's, it's not, again, the point I was getting at, it's not to smear him or to cancel it. I just want people to stake out their positions clearly. And look, I get your point. Yeah. Here, do you want my position? I don't think we should do the great leap forward in America. I don't think we should do the cultural revolution in America. I'm not a Maoist. Well, okay. All right, fine. So pause it right there. Yeah. Okay. Well, all right, fine. That's a good starting point. But I was more talking about staking out your position on Mao Zedong and what happened there. And you clearly did stake out that position, at least to some degree here, that it wasn't intentional and it wasn't a genocide.

59:30Am I making this up, guys? Did he just say it wasn't intentional and it wasn't a genocide, right? Pretty clear we got him on record for that. Okay, so that's it. But, hey, you're saying we shouldn't do the great leap forward here. But just to be clear here, I don't think this is unreasonable for me to ask him to stake out his position. He gave me a little bit more here, even sarcastically. Are the communists out there listening? He does not believe in a great leap forward. Okay, good. Decent starting point. Anyway, let's keep going. not only am i not a maoist but i don't think that you could do a maoist formation in this country anyway you could do a maoist revolution in this country uh in in any case so right but what are you for like what the fuck what okay pause it so that's okay but then so what do you want to do okay if you couldn't do a maoist version of socialism but what version is it that you do want to do again i'm saying stake out your position and you're going i'm not for maoism what the fuck okay what's your position anyway let's keep playing okay there it is like that's my position oh no oh no

1:00:49brother like i think i probably agree with almost everything you said in that rant it just never addressed like my concern. And like, so listen, like, what is your concern that you think I'm going to make people like you, you think there's going to be a, like a significant shortage in like grain that is underreported by provincial leadership back to the central committee. And that like millions will die in the process at a time when, you know, there's not a lot of, there's not great technology, not great technological leaps and bounds. Like what is the argument here? What do you think is my secret mystery position?

1:01:37Okay, let's pause it here. I think you're a radical socialist who believes that the government should own the means of production and essentially all businesses and that you'll keep working toward that goal. And my concern is that there's nothing but totalitarian nightmares on the other side of that. And that you can look at Mao Zedong. The fact that you can look at Mao Zedong. Let's just flip this around real quick. I mean, obviously, Hassan, if somebody were to look at Adolf Hitler, if somebody were to look at Benjamin Netanyahu, the same way that you are sitting here talking about Mao Zedong, minimizing, saying it wasn't intentional, it wasn't a genocide, you guys just don't understand the context.

1:02:17I want a different version of what his form of government was. You would have some concerns about that. No one would have to explain to you further why you would have those concerns. You're doing the exact same thing. You're doing the exact same thing. What are my concerns? I'm sorry. Like me and this entire country, we watched every advocate of universal health care openly muse and joke about how me and my family should be turned away from the emergency room if we ever need help because we made a medical decision that was correct. What are you talking about? I literally watched people like you champion the fact that we locked down the entire country and put people essentially on house arrest, made it illegal for them to have funerals for their father.

1:03:04I watched you champion that. I watched as I warned about instituting apartheid, medical apartheid for an experimental vaccine, and you mocked my concerns over it. So yes, what I'm saying is that you are a very dim-witted, unimpressive authoritarian, and I think you will excuse away the most evil regime of all time, and that tells me that you'd excuse away a whole of evil. It's pretty straightforward. All right, let's keep playing.

1:03:42I mean, I think we're closer to that becoming a reality under Donald Trump, ironically enough, in 2026, which is far more impressive. You know, that's like with our current surplus of food, we could still engineer a famine here. That's how bad Donald Trump is. And these dumb fucks are talking about mouth, dude. What the fuck? Speaker 3 0.5 As you know, I'm not the guy who's trying to smear someone for being an anti-war critic. And of course, you know that I know that of course a huge percentage of the opposition to your nephew and to mom, Donnie and all of this is just blatant Israel supporters who want to ruin them over that.

1:04:22And then we'll find any other thing they can to discredit them. Speaker 3 0.5 That is true though. That's literally true. Come on. Point is that Hassan has also given him a ton of low hanging fruit. And I'm asking the question about the mentality here because brother. Yeah. You're saying it's working on me. Like, yeah, it's working on me. It is working on me. I am with you. If you're talking about funding, pause it for a second. No, I'm not saying it's working. That's not what low hanging fruit means, dude. You got to stop stream in so many hours and just fucking read books and listen and think about shit.

1:04:57That's not what that means. Saying you're giving them a lot of low hanging fruit doesn't mean it's working. It means you're making it work. You are making it work. Saying you're giving them a lot of low hanging fruit means you're giving them a lot of easy shit to criticize, to make reasonable people go, oh yeah, fuck it. This guy's crazy. This guy's out of his fucking mind, which he is. What do you mean? Yes, obviously a lot of the people who want to ruin you just want to ruin you because you're a critic of Israel and they'd like to ruin you over something else. Also, you're making their job very easy when you're sitting there minimizing the worst, most genocidal dictator of all time.

1:05:36This ain't rocket science. Let's keep playing. Genocide or fighting a stupid war on behalf of a foreign country that is bankrupting and destroying our country. And I'm with you on the fact that screw any of them for getting morally outraged about anyone you sit on the corpses of innocent dead children here talk to me about any moral outrage about owned by individual die by the is a movement on the left here who is flirting with these ideas as if if they are serious and i'm telling you right now jake bro bro's about this a like public ownership of key industries is the same as as mal okay that's the i realize now what he was gearing up for.

1:06:18The argument is literally like, I was jokingly saying like, what do you think we're going to do the Great Leap Forward? Like that literally is his argument. And why is that his argument? Because we're talking about like nationalization of key sectors, which literally already exists in social democracies that are capitalists like Norway and like moving in that direction or it happens in Mexico as well. Moving in that direction is actually the same as the great leap forward. Okay. Yeah. I mean, that's a stupid argument. At least it's somewhat of an argument. If these people like, I mean, do you, you do notice how he, if you pause it there, right.

1:06:57If you do notice how he just makes up an argument that isn't mine and goes, that's a bad argument, but it's, I mean, Hassan just, again, this is why I was always surprised. He blew up. He's just really not very good at this. No, I'm not making the argument that nationalizing industry is the same as the great leap forward. I'm making the point that the great leap forward was a huge experiment in nationalizing industry. That is true. It was a total experiment in the state owning everything. But the state owning more and more is a bad idea for the same reasons. Like, that is not an incoherent argument.

1:07:34It's actually a very good argument. And the more specific argument that I'm making, right, is that you need prices for an economy to function. And you can only have them when you have private ownership of the means of production, private ownership of business. You cannot have them when the state owns everything. And that's why you will end up with massive shortages, massive inefficiencies. Now, if the sector that you take over happens to be, as in the case of Mao, every farm, then what you have shortages in and inefficiencies in is the production of food. In that case, people starve to death. And yes, if you were to collectivize the farms in America, it would have all of the same economic problems that it did in China for the same reasons, because the same economic laws exist here as exist there.

1:08:32If you want to find a flaw in that argument, go for it, but start with the actual argument, you fucking child. Let's keep playing. different than at a time when like the fire department was privately owned okay the person making the argument that fire departments should be public instead because you know the rest of the block that didn't have fire insurance was also catching on fucking fire okay um it would be the equivalent of of yelling and complaining that this is i mean this predates communism but Like it would be the equivalent of saying like, no, that's communism. We can't have that. Okay.

1:09:13Yeah. Donald Trump purchased 10 % of Intel. That's the, that he's doing it. He's a liberal enemy of mouth to be clear. I mean, it's just, I just love this. We're talking about, this is Hassan Piker. Just think of all the shit Hassan Piker said over the years. And then look at what a bitch he is. Once he gets caught, he's retreated to fire departments. I just believe in fire departments. Donald Trump bought 10 % of a company. Like, yes, and we oppose that. We oppose Donald Trump buying the 10 % of a company. Didn't buy 100 % of it. That would be much worse. Like, I don't know what to say. But that's, oh, that's the Hassan Piker position now.

1:09:52We went from what, minimizing Mao Zedong and his collective ownership of everything down to, oh, you just want fire departments. I'm sorry. Again, like he just, it's amazing how he oscillates back and forth within the few minutes of this, this video that we're playing. What minimizing? There was no intentional genocide. Socialism. I just want a fire department or two. Okay. Here, let's, let's keep playing before we wrap this up. Control of our department of agriculture. I'll be siding with the neocons against you because that's even worse. That's even worse than the one. Oh man. He's like, oh, they're pulling.

1:10:28They're pulling. They're tugging on my arm here. They're making me side with the neocons because it's far scarier to have the department of agriculture have any control over agricultural output, which it currently does. Oh, by the way, it does currently, but that's fine. But what if they did it in a scary way, like in a communist style way or fair straight is real deal state socialism. The worst invention in the history of humanity by far. No close second. No, no podcast mics. Come on. Bar none. No, is the SM seven B sure microphone. Let's be real.

1:11:21Adam bomb. No, no, no, no podcast mics. Hitler invented the microphone. Yeah. That's what Kanye meant. He was a real visionary when he said that ahead of time. He was, that was an anti-podcast take. That wasn't a, people thought he was being pro Hitler, but he actually meant he was all right. We can stop it. We can stop in here and cut this away. Natalie, I'll wrap up. I mean, let me just say about this last part here. And this is what I just find to be. And I think, honestly, I just think if you're being objective here, even if, and I really mean this, even if you agree with Hassan Piker on 100 % of his political takes, and you disagree with me on all of mine, like Mao Zedong, you think Mao didn't commit an intentional genocide and you agree with Hassan on everything else.

1:12:11And you just think I'm like Austrian economics and my whole libertarianism is cranky nonsense or whatever. Okay, fine. But even you, if you're just being honest, you should admit this is so slimy what he does here. It is so disingenuous that when I go, when I go, hey, look, if you're talking about like people who believe in like true socialism, worker ownership of the means of production or state ownership of the means of production or democratizing the workforce, all these ideas that you guys talk about. I go, man, if you ever got control of the Department of Agriculture. Now, if you guys might notice, we were talking about Mao Zedong.

1:12:51I use the Department of Agriculture for a reason. I was saying, if you guys were ever going to real deal collectivize the farms, I'd side with neocons over you guys. No one's yanking at me, Hassan. I assure you, I just mean that because I understand what's happened every single time that's been implemented. In response to this, think about how dishonest this is. In response to this, Hassan goes, oh, God forbid there should be an agriculture department and it has some level of control. But what we're going to do it in a scary way. And he goes, there already is a department of agriculture. We already have this.

1:13:29Oh, excuse me. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize Hassan Piker was a moderate. I was under the impression that Hassan Piker was a radical socialist, basically leading on communist. Now, I was under that impression because that's what he's fucking said about himself for two decades. Fifteen years, whatever it is that he's been here. He's always said that. He's always said that he's a radical socialist, has talked about collectivizing the means of production. But now all of a sudden, when I ask him to stand by that track record, he has to go, oh, what are you talking about? He's basically just Donald Trump, just like we should have one.

1:14:07Maybe they should tinker with things a little bit here or there. We're not talking about any revolution here, man. Oh, what? What are you so scared? They're going to do crazy communist stuff? Yeah, like collectivize the ownership. Yes, that's what I'm scared of. That is the difference. It is the difference both in authoritarianism, right? Look, if a factory worker, maybe you could argue, and this is the whole problem with democratic socialism in general, right? It's like maybe you could argue that there's some form of exploitation that like a factory owner could have on a factory worker or something like that, right?

1:14:42He could pay him less. He could make the working conditions not as good as they should be or whatever. But he can't go to the farm, have a soldier get out, put a gun to his head and say, you no longer work there, you work here. Only a government can do that. And only a government ever has done that. And also the businessmen have to trade with each other and develop prices. And that's how you economize. You don't have that. People starve. It's a disaster. If you want to argue any of that shit, fine. But all you can do in this video so far is pretend that Mao Zedong, you pretend you're not minimizing his atrocities when you clearly are.

1:15:19And then you just do this thing, which all of the democratic socialists are doing, where you masquerade as a moderate. You just pretend to be a moderate as soon as you get called out on having to stand by any of those beliefs. And that's not cancel culture. That's just me saying you can't defend your own positions here. Don't act like you were just trying to get it there. No, we were just saying like maybe one or two more regulations. OK, if you were saying one or two more regulations, I disagree with that. But that'd be a separate argument. What you've been saying is workers of the world unite and all that shit.

1:15:52you've been saying that you are for collective ownership of everything so make it very clear and say it so all your commie listeners can hear you too that actually that's not what you stand for that's not at all what we're even talking about and you're just being hysterical if you even think That's part of it.

1:16:12Look, man, there's a. There's there's a reason why people are having this reaction to this type of stuff. And I'll just say, man, after. For so long in this country, you know, it was such an effort for kind of like the new media for all of us to like take on. all of the COVID lies and all of the wokeism and all of the insanity over Russiagate and, and, you know, just all of the kind of like deep state corruption and all of this stuff. And, you know, to, to after all of that, allow some of these guys who were so bad on so many of those issues to now come around and act like they've got some new idea.

1:17:02And the new idea is what minimizing communist atrocities while arguing that we go in that direction more. I mean, I'll do everything I can to expose this shit because man, is it poisonous. But anyway, okay, I guess in closing, we really should. I know, um, um, Hassan has expressed interest in doing this before. I'm very happy to do this. You know, I had said, uh, that I wanted to do it, uh, over the computer just so we could make it happen, but maybe it is worth doing like a live thing and making it a live form thing. I'd certainly be down for that. Any moderator, Hassan wants to pick, we can debate whatever he wants to.

1:17:38All he's got to do is lay out what his actual position is, and then I'll argue against that. But I'm quite happy to argue against democratic socialism or any of this stuff. It's all just pure poison. And as you can see, I mean, I think as you listen to it, it's just like, it's incoherent, even as they describe it. It's kind of like they can't keep up with their last thought. So anyway, let's do it. Hassan, let's sit down. I think it'd be really cool, man. I mean, there's this big anti-war movement. I think within the anti-war movement, the critical of Israel kind of reject rejection of like neoconservatism and neoliberal foreign policy.

1:18:12Um, I think me and you in some ways represent almost like the furthest socialist and the furthest capitalist kind of wing of that. However you want to put it, I think it'd be something that'd be really cool. I think it could be beneficial to, to all of our, our audiences. So let's, let's make that happen. Thanks guys for, for watching. Catch you next time. Peace.