Auron Macintyre

31:59You know what I mean? Like, it's not that in the 1960s when there was a much more, you know, homogenous country, we wouldn't still have issues with state authoritarianism. But I do think that it's absolutely true that the when you, you know, elect to transform your country rapidly into a multicultural, multiracial society, you're going to have a lot of problems that come along with this. And in fact, I did want to talk to you about this topic because I did I did a show on this. I saw you I saw a part of your show or maybe you were being interviewed by someone else. But I saw you commenting on this.

32:35And it was this this scandal that in a way was a very you know, it's just one of those little things that was very illustrated that illustrated kind of this bigger theme. And I'm talking about the what was it? The the university there in Austin. Which one was it again? UT. UT. So it was UT. There's this picture of all these Indians in the stance. And one of the things that's so interesting about it, right, is that this isn't a picture of immigrants who are not assimilating. This is like the most assimilating you could be. and so it's almost it's like it like controlled for one factor and then let you look at it and go yeah but still hey does anyone have a problem with this is this like why is this happening when the will of the people is so clearly against this and the governing administration is the one who ran against all of this and won this historic victory for the second time and so like what do and then uh of course i've seen some uh popular commentators like ben shapiro and jeremy boring kind of weigh in on how there's no problem in here.

33:35What on you must just be a bigot if you've got any issue of this. And I think this goes right to the core of kind of your like raison d 'etre for being a political commentator, which is like this, the idea of the propositional nation verse anything in addition to that. Is it purely just that, or is there, is there a people and a land and a place and a culture and a content? Are you telling me we're devoid of all of that? And I don't think I'm strawmanning when I say that, yes, that is their position. Like, I genuinely don't think I'm strawmanning to say that, yes, that is Jeremy Boring and Ben Shapiro's position that like America is America, man.

34:12And if you pick up the Declaration of Independence, you're America now. Now, I am somebody who very much believes. In fact, I think it's almost indisputable. I don't think this is a belief. It might even be a truism that ideas had a very important, you know, impact on America. And the country we are. And the fact that we've become the country we are and we were started with the Declaration of Independence is not a complete coincidence. There is a relationship between that. Ideas had a big part in shaping this country. But the idea that that's it. Like, the idea that America was not a real place and a real group of really existing human beings in time.

34:52Like, even for somebody who loves the ideas in the Declaration of Independence, I would argue quite a bit more than Ben Shapiro. I just find this this view to be like removed from reality. And I'm curious your thoughts on that. Yeah, I mean, they obviously don't believe this for a second, because if you turn to Ben or to Jeremy and you said, hey, I'm going to take 10 million Palestinians. They all converted to Judaism. They all believe in the ideas of Israel. They are 100 percent committed to the religion, the faith, the culture. And we're just going to swap them out for Jewish people. Right. It's going to be the same.

35:23They have the same ideas. It's going to be exactly the same. You know, if you notice that half of the universities in Israel are now filled with Palestinians instead of ethnic Jews. Well, you're just a racist because they hold the same ideas. How are you supposed to pretend like there's no difference here? Like they would immediately understand the thing so that what they have to do is construct a specific and special identity for America. That is, in a literal sense, leftist in its entire construction. they believe in an eternal revolution in the leftist sense it's a it's a communist leftist deconstructionist revolution but it's for american identity american identity is constantly changing it's always evolving you know what is an american what is a woman who can say right like they you know these these definitions are are constantly evolving and so we just have to kind of have this loose like completely uh uh freely chosen understanding just like you choose if you can be a woman you can choose whether or not you're an american and that's all there is to it and that's what makes america special because it's different you know it's not like any of these old world construction which again is the most progressive idea you could have about identity in the world and so the thing i'm trying to get these people to understand and i understand they're not going to get it because they're literally financially invested in not getting it and there's a very good adage about people and what they're paid to believe but the point is we didn't arrive at our understanding of English common law because we like tested all the other systems of law around the world and thought that was the best one we have a system of English long English common law because the country came from Anglos they thought it was the best system because it's the one they grew up with because it's the one they believed in because their ancestors built it it's the one we inherited and that's why we think it's the best and this is important because ideas and people are not separable again I don't know if we have different opinions on this but I have a lot of people tell me we need to ban sharia law in the united states i'm like yeah whatever go for it but it's not going to work because it turns out that sharia law is what muslims do you get enough muslims together you get sharia law because that's actually just how their way of being manifests itself legally just like if you get enough anglos together you get anglo common law now if you move enough muslims into the united states it doesn't matter if you ban the law or not you'll get sharia law because that's what comes with them and the same is true of indians again you don't have to hate any of these people right but if you bring enough indians in the united states i don't really care if they bought the right t-shirt or doing the right hand sign at the football game they're going to bring their beliefs about government and society with them that's how it works they're going to build temples to their foreign gods they're going to impose their foreign understanding of how government should run by the way india wildly socialist you know was allied with the ussr when indians come here they vote overwhelmingly leftist like Every part of this is predictable and understandable.

38:11Again, you don't need to hate a single person. The Chinese live the way the Chinese live. The Japanese live the way they live. Indians, Muslims, God bless them, right? They live the way they live. And in their countries, that is the best way for them. And I am more than happy to not fly over there and impose democracy on them. Let them do their thing. But here in the United States, if our system is to function, we have to have not just the beliefs, not just the ideas, but the people who actually manifested and live out those beliefs. I think liberty is a goal for you because frankly, you've absorbed all of the Anglo understandings of how politics should be ordered.

38:48Even if you're not completely ethnically Anglo, it doesn't matter. You've been part of the country long enough. You're steeped deep enough in our understanding to have absorbed that way of life and you wouldn't want to live any other. And so if we have a concentration of people who have that belief and understanding, it's far more likely that we will be able to achieve that with less government interference and direction. And that's why open borders libertarian is a contradiction in terms, because even if open borders was for some reason an insane belief libertarians should hold, you literally can't maintain the belief without keeping the critical mass of the original population that held the belief in the first place.

39:24You are literally creating a system that will destroy itself by bringing in people who do not agree with it. Also, if you really I mean, and this has always been my thing on it, is that if you really do believe in liberty and you and if you're a real libertarian, you believe like the property owners of America own America, you know, like that's who's in charge. It's like also like how about I don't even have to give you a reason why I don't want our country to look different other than I don't want it. Like because I don't even have to tell you. Yeah, because I don't want it because I like the 1980s America and I vote we keep it.

39:59and I bet more people vote we keep it than vote we don't. How about that? How about if we made the country 80 % Indian and everything was the same? The only difference was that people, there were more Indian restaurants and the people looked different and the people were this. How about I just say, I don't want that. In the same sense that I get to decide whether I want to renovate my kitchen or not. It's just my choice. I get to do it whether I want to, you know? And like, it really is something, man. And I don't know, I find this to be a broader theme and I'm not saying this is a theme about Jews.

40:28This is a theme about the people who support, say, like the policy of this war in Iran and unconditional support for Israel. Where it's just like, I don't know, man, the chutzpah, the chutzpah on you to think that you're supposed to get the policy that 80 percent of the Americans oppose. But they're not allowed to get this one policy that 80 percent of them support. That's about their country. Like, it's just too crazy. I know you've made this point before, but it is so it's so crazy to think. Now, I've heard you probably make this point about as well as I've heard anyone, but to think that they went for it on the Iran war and not on mass deportations when it's, you know, like whatever, whatever political risk there was or whatever unpopularity you would have to inherit.

41:12Like they didn't even go on it for a thing that could possibly make our country better. It's so weird because, you know, obviously, I still think that the GOP is the superior option because, well, my borders are closed, if nothing else. Right. And whatever else you hate about Trump, every Republican politician for decades pretended like this was impossible. And Trump basically hit a switch. And then it was reality. Right. And the tens of millions of people that aren't coming over the border will probably save my country for several generations. So obviously, I'm going to continue to appreciate.

41:46Well, at least demographically. So, well, I'm just saying, look, the last time he came in, I mean, he didn't do as good a job on the board of the last time he came out. but joe biden followed so if joe biden follows again then none of this really matters again i didn't mean to break up your point but continue it's a fair point it's a fair point to me yeah yeah i'm just prefacing this before i then trash what what has happened here uh the fact that we got a war that literally donald trump jd vance and steven miller all explicitly promised would never happen repeatedly is insane like you can still find the tweets from steven miller saying this war is a kamala harris war like this is a lie that we would ever go to war in iran we're never going to war with iran only democrats will get your children killed in iran that is never going to happen and it is slander for you to say so like those tweets are still up and so when i have to hear like republicans and like neocon shills tell me we've been at war with iran for 47 years donald trump said we would never let iran get a nuke it's like man i i can only take so much gaslighting like it like it is it is almost unbearable to hear you vomit these words out as if you are just a completely uh i will avoid uh vulgar term vulgar terms you are a slave you are just a complete slave like you you are incapable of having thought like i i am pretty big on political loyalty like i believe on in this in a pretty pretty serious sense but there is a reciprocal aspect of loyalty yes okay and yeah i get it like trump has delivered some things i never thought i would see and i am grateful for them but obviously this is a disaster and you cannot explain to me why we got into this disaster in any way except that somehow israel has enough leverage to compel the united states government to go to this war it makes no sense any other way every person in the world observing this knows this every normie in my life who has no interest in politics just says casually well it's kind of wild that israel can just send us to war whenever they want like these are completely politically unengaged people who have no opinion on donald trump or the republican party and they will just say this casually out loud the people online or the people in the trump admin who are like in a bubble about like oh it's the small faction of you know distant right figures and you know libertarians out there you know compelling people not to believe in donald trump like you guys are just delusional and and and not getting a firm grasp on your horses will be an absolute disaster so yeah it's clear that what we should have spent our political capital on was deportations that was promised the base would be completely energized if he was doing that and instead we have five dollar gasoline uh we're we're you know scaling back deportations wildly any expectation that will even get the people out that Joe Biden brought in is basically gone at this point.

44:33They've admitted there's no way that's happening. And so basically you're just admitting we've completely lost on this. Yes, it'll be better than Democrats. I still agree with that. But the idea that the political capital will be spent on anything that the voters actually cared about, it's dwindling very fast. And so then you have this scenario where you have to ask, why do they have this level of power to compel this? You committed literal political suicide in front of everyone and then sent Marco Rubio out to tell everybody why because Israel told us so and then we have to spend the next you know year pretending otherwise it's it's one of the most amazing things I've ever seen in politics and uh the the fact that people are still just screaming at anyone who notices the most obvious fact available to anyone with eyeballs I don't even know what more to say about it yeah there was um I think I mentioned this on the show but there was that uh I don't know if you saw I didn't watched the whole thing, but I watched the clips of it, but they had like a big three on three debate about like a MAGA, you know, whether we should still support MAGA or against it was the one with Alex Jones and Joe Kent.

45:37Um, and then it was, um, John Doyle and Andrew Wilson. It was three on three, which I hate three on three debates, man. I mean, I would just much, I'd much rather just listen to John Doyle, like argue with one of them or something like that. Then listen to three different people, make three different arguments. um but so there's one point in it i thought this was really remarkable to me but there's one point where where john um is talking and he goes look dude like we all agree we didn't want this war okay well maybe will will's the one person who supported the wall will will chamberlain was the other guy so he's he's he goes okay look we all agree this war is a disaster we shouldn't have fought it okay there's one guy and you just almost sit there and you zoom out and you're like but why does one out of the six get their way?

46:21I mean, like, dude, that's like a pretty good, that's a pretty good representation of like MAGA. You know what I mean? Like you really did have like Joe Kent to Alex Jones to John Doyle to Andrew Wilson to Will Chamberlain. Like you got a pretty diverse group of MAGA supporters here and it's five against what? Like that is the dynamic, you know, the dynamic is, but there's this one little group who got their way. And that is, I just, I don't know. It's so obviously indefensible on the face of the thing. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Ultra Pouches.

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48:00You got to check these out. Ultra Sleep Pouches deliver better, deeper sleep with properly dosed and natural ingredients. New customers can use the promo code PROBLEM to get 15 % off at take ultra.com that's take ultra.com and 15 % off when you use the promo code problem. All right, let's get back into the show. Yeah, this is why I believe in elite theory. Uh, the organized minority always, you know, uh, out, out controls the disorganized majority. And yeah, that's exactly right. Like we, uh, MAGA was primarily a movement of immigration restriction and economic protectionism like those those are basically like your two main pillars of MAGA uh no matter how much people want to avoid it like Trump was obviously campaigning on you know dispossessed middle and working class white people like that was obviously the fears that they have are the replacement of their jobs and replacements of their people and cultures and this is what formed MAGA and that's why at one point all six of the people on that stage as you say were entirely behind trump and one person got exactly what they wanted and the other five didn't and everyone is supposed to shut up because they got some of the things they wanted now again i do think that there is a bad reaction to this i think people running around saying well you have to go vote for democrats or you know whatever uh we have to embrace socialism i mean you know all these arguments like that's not good like yeah like the they are like obvious there are people who are just monetizing their disagreement with Trump.

49:29Like that, that's very clear, but I don't think that just writing that off is healthy. Like ultimately you have to take the actual phenomenon as it is. And you can't just pretend that every pushback against you is manufactured. And no matter how much people want to deny this, it's very clear that a large number of people felt extremely betrayed by the one, two punch of the Epstein files and the Iran war. Honestly, the Epstein files might be more damaging ultimately than the Iran level to the credibility of the Trump administration. Certainly if it started at the 12 day, certainly if he hadn't launched this one, but I, I take your point there.

50:06The Epstein files did something that's very tough to measure on polls, um, that it really, it undermined the, the drain, the swamp spirit in a really profound way, I think. Yeah, absolutely. And so you have this scenario where a lot of people who were following trump really fell off that train now trump still is always going to have the mega hardcores especially the boomers boomers love trump man like you you can't like it's funny watching uh congressional like primary ads in my area the entire ad is just i'm just like donald trump like they don't even talk about a single policy it's like i like my steak overdone and diet coke and mcdonald's so vote for me like that's actually the entirety of their campaign structure so that's you know he's always going to have those people they're the same people who watch the you know iraq war on television and afghanistan war on television and thought all of it was great and they're going to watch the iran war on television and think it's all great too and wonder why we don't just a button and blow up all of iran and walk away and you know in victory that's going to exist but the the future voters that trump had the magus support the momentum is in a very bad position and really the ultimate casualty of all this is jd vance because you know This guy is in like the most difficult position you can imagine.

51:17He can't disown what's happened here, even though he clearly was against the war in Iran. He knows it's a mistake. He's done everything he can to get out as quickly as possible. But Iran knows that they're not going to let it happen. And Israel knows they're not going to let it happen. And so we're stuck at the table getting nowhere. And so you just have this scenario where now the neocons, and this is where libertarians should care, by the way. This is the moment. Libertarians, I will now make my best pitch for you to care about the GOP. Okay. The neocons are making their move to recapture the GOP right now.

51:47The reason the neocons are flipping out and talking about the institutions like Heritage and Claremont and all these other ones being infiltrated by Groypers is because they know they completely lost the next generation. And there is no way that the people coming into the Republican Party will give one crap about Israel or foreign wars ever again. Like, that's done. That's over. OK, and so the only thing left for these people to do is to basically like rest control of the Republican Party from the insurgent new right. They have to stop MAGA and new right. So, yes, I understand a lot of people say MAGA is over.

52:22The MAGA coalition is dead. Don't wish for that. OK, because if MAGA coalition is dead, the neocons own the conservative movement. What you want is neocons to lose this. You want MAGA to reassert itself, even in, you know, even though you have bad things associated with. Now, you really want them to be in the driver's seat because the alternative is the return of Ben Shapiro and Mitt Romney and those people running the party. And if that happens, then, well, that's they're they're already moving to legislatively remove the ability to stop working with Israel from the executive branch. Like literally they're walling off the ability to present say no to Israel in legislation.

52:59So they are doing everything they can to just completely seize up the American government on the issue of Israel. So it's impossible for them to do anything but support that state with maximum resolve at every moment. And if you let them win this thing, it doesn't matter what popular beliefs are on Israel. They will have the technical and bureaucratic power to shut you out entirely. The democratic process will not matter. Well, I mean, I guess I would say that I think there's really no stopping what's about to happen in these midterms. there's just, this is here. And the bed, as far as I'm concerned, the bed's been made and look like, you know, some of these things are just, I don't know, like it's, you know, if you, if you like, I don't know, do something really horrible to your wife, she might, she might leave you or never look at you the same way or something like that again.

53:51And you could make an argument where like, Hey, listen, wait, lady, like it's still technically a better decision for you to stay with him than it is to go out there and be single. But she's like, yeah, but he just spit in my face. So I'm leaving, you know, like, like, and there is an element of that. I'll be honest. Like, it's like, I don't know, dude, you're seriously, dude, you're going to, first of all, you came and spoke at the libertarian party convention, um, in 24, like you came and made a pitch to us and then the most high profile or many of the most high profile libertarians like supported you, dude, you launched a$35 million campaign to unseat Thomas Massey and told all of us to go to hell and told all of us we weren't a part of the coalition.

54:28And now you're asking us for like, it's, I don't know, like on some level, I understand you could argue that that's emotional. But at the same point, having a little bit of dignity and pride is an emotional thing. And it's not necessarily the worst, the worst thing for a group of people to have. I think that you launch a look, another thing, like, as you pointed out correctly, it's very clear that Israel got us into this war. So you can't even believe that people would try to deny it. You know, it's one One thing, if Coleman Hughes wants to debate me on how Israel didn't get us into the Iraq war, okay.

54:59And I think I got a good enough argument that I'm right and he's wrong, but okay, there's an argument there. I'm going to argue Israel didn't get us into the Iran war. Okay. Anyway, you launch a war that's clearly a war of choice. That's another thing. Donald Trump could sit here and lie through his teeth and just make himself George W. Bush saying they were two months or two weeks away from a deliverable nuclear weapon. No, they weren't. You're a liar. Everybody knows that. No one believes it. No one believes we had to fight this war. You chose to. And when you launch a war of choice, now me as a, you know, principal libertarian or whatever, I got a real problem with murdering a bunch of little girls in Iran.

55:34I got a real problem with the humanitarian catastrophe. But you really better not lose that war. You know, you launch a war of choice, you really better win that thing. You lose that thing, you're going to be punished in the midterms for it. So we're here now, like as far as I'm concerned, this is now happening. The Trump thing's over, dude. That's it. The only power he's got is foreign policy now, and he just wants to fight wars with everybody. So that's it. There's no deportation. There's no domestic agenda at all. He's going to be impeached. He's going to be investigated. And by the way, they're going to have a lot more than they had the first time because, man, has he been corrupt as shit in this second administration.

56:06And get ready. That's going to be what the Democrats go after because it doesn't threaten political institutions at all. And it just puts Donald Trump and his family in the hot seat. It's going to be a nightmare. J.D. Vance cannot win now. No one who's attacked. The problem with the fucking only Will Chamberlain likes them is that no one likes Will Chamberlain. Like, I don't mean to be a dick to the guy, but he's out here. No one agrees with him. He doesn't have a follow it. There's no there's no popular. It's just the boomers, as you said, just the boomer cons. So you lose with just that. That's not a winning coalition.

56:36And so now I just feel like the only option is like a Tucker Carlson 2028 or some type of like someone who could pick back up that coalition. Maybe don't call it MAGA, call it America first or whatever, but like could pick back up that coalition. and could maybe come out. So essentially the Democrats are going to win back the Congress, but yeah, I'm with you, man. We cannot let a democratic president win in 28 and have a president and Congress. Like, I don't think it's hyper, hyper, hyperbole to say like, that's the country. That's the end of it. So I kind of think that's where we are. I'm hoping that candidate emerges.

57:13Yeah. I mean, I, you know, I, I like Will personally, had him on the show multiple times, but yeah, obviously his, I don't even dislike him personally, to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. Fair. But that said, you're obviously correct that the, you know, the GOP has dug its own grave here. Like the idea that they're running around and blaming people, you know, Vivek looks like he's going to lose Ohio and all these people are running around. You have to vote for Vivek. You have to get out there and vote for Vivek. And it's like, look, man, I'm not going to tell anyone to vote Democrat. Like, obviously, it's going to be worse if there's a Democrat.

57:45but i'm not i'm not gonna sit here and pretend it's the voters fault because you put vivek ramaswamy in that place man like you guys screwed this up and now you're gonna pay the price and you know so ultimately i don't want them to win i encourage people to go out and try to stop them from winning but the democrats are probably gonna win this and it's because the republicans handed it to them on a silver platter and there's no one to blame from them it's not tucker carlson's fault it's not your fault it's not my fault it's you know it's not the fault of the average voter It's not Nick Fuentes's fault.

58:15I'm sorry, guys. Like you did this because you're bad and you're stupid and you failed and you betrayed your voters and you're getting exactly what you deserve. That said, you know, I don't think that there is a third party. I'm a student of history. I taught history. Third parties lose every single time. The last time a third party was successful was a Republican Party. We had a four way split in the presidency and then we had a civil war about it. So like, honestly, that seems more likely than actually Tucker Carlson's new party winning. No, I'm not saying a new party. To be clear, I was my vision for this would be a Republican primary that somebody has.

58:52And forget Tucker, if you don't think he's the guy or whatever. But like that somebody has to be a Republican who believe who can credibly say like, hey, we're going to enact the policies of what the voters actually want, which is that we want illegals deported. We don't want to fight stupid new wars. We don't want woke insanity. We don't want our currency being destroyed and the price of everything going on. Like the very basic things that the overwhelming coalition wants. And yeah, I don't know. I agree with you. You know, the whole it's just the whole system is rigged against third parties.

59:26So the only way for a third party to really work is for the people in power to decide to unrig it against third parties. And they're not going to do that because that sure doesn't help them much. But I do think that like, look, man, a Republican primary challenger against a very weak J.D. Vance or a very weak Marco Rubio has real possibilities there. And I do think the Tucker Carlson thing is very interesting because he's somebody who was the biggest show at Fox News. When you're running for president, you will get reintroduced to those boomers. You know, one of the interesting dynamics here is that me and you, maybe a little bit more you than me, because like maybe some of them still like Glenn Beck and like know your show, you know, because you're on the network or something.

1:00:09But for the most part, we're just not talking to them. They're just not paying, you know, like like they were hearing the Thomas Massey debate from Fox News and Mark Levent. They weren't hearing the other side of that debate. And so I do think Tucker kind of uniquely would have an ability to maybe like edge back in with with some of them and be like, no, he didn't go crazy. He's the same guy you still liked from back then. I don't know. Maybe it's just wishful thinking to some degree. But at the same time, man, we got a country to save here or in and I don't know. I did want to mention, by the way, just because you brought up the vague.

1:00:41And I think that I probably would have been in some way, maybe like a step to your left on this like broader topic. Like a couple of years ago, if someone had asked me, like, I remember seeing when Vivek was saying a lot of things that I really liked about, you know, gutting the deep state and stuff like that. And I would see like, you know, right wing comments on Twitter, like talking about how he's an Indian or like, he's not a Christian or he's not this. And I'd be like, come on guys. Like, I don't want a movement so small that this guy can't fit in just because he's got, you know, whatever.

1:01:10certainly like if there's a movement that wouldn't have like Sager and Jetty in it then I don't want to be a part of that movement because I love that guy and I love what he stands for but but there's something about the way Vivek leaned into lecturing Americans about their culture that is like dude it makes me want to strangle you and I like the guy personally but it's like like the fact that I'm sorry it does not make me a Klansman or a racist or some dumb cartoon character from the 20th century to say that like, no, dude, you don't get to lecture us about what our culture is. You're new here.

1:01:42You're a new member. Don't start lecturing us about what our founding is and how the young people who are upset that they're disenfranchised are just whiners and instead go be a winner. Like no one believes this is a meritocracy system. No one thinks you're worth hundreds of millions of dollars or billions or whatever it is because you were just so good. and yet like no one buys that man so you got to chill with that shit it's a losing message yeah the christmas crash out was a true gift because as you say like vivek said a lot of things i mean as somebody who wrote a lot about the managerial state and the deleterious effects that it has on society and how it desperately needs to get rid of i loved hearing those kind of things too but vivek did the thing that i think is really important where all of these people liked the rhetoric and then they saw the real person beneath the veneer beneath everything vivek made a clear statement of disdain for american culture if you're actually assimilating and you actually think america is great then you and you think american culture is watching saved by the bell and trying to make out with the prom queen uh then you would be doing that like that's what you would that's what assimilation would look like you didn't come here to assimilate you came here to rule right and that's what it is a lot of these high class cast brahmins think they're just going to come in and get to rule the country right like that that that's the understanding and you know again this is not just unique to indians right like this is a problem with any large diaspora and the more elite the diaspora the more of a problem it is as opposed and the other way around legal immigration is a huge problem but legal immigration brings in a bunch of people into universities and those people become doctors and lawyers and they run IT departments and critical infrastructure nodes that make huge decisions about national security and who gets to come into the country and where they live and what they own and what benefits they get.

1:03:31And all of a sudden that diaspora starts manipulating things in their favor. And you have a country that doesn't feel like your own anymore. It feels like it's being operated for other people because it is. And Vivek really just kind of displayed that for people, no matter how good his rhetoric was, it became clear what the actual motivations were, what the real thought pattern is lurking behind that. And then all of a sudden, it's just like, how dare you, man? Like, I just, you know, I do also find like, because there is something again, like we said before, right? Like, and I think Daryl Cooper, mutual friend of ours, who's totally brilliant, I think he makes a really good point of like, he'll point out that like, it actually is true that the American identity was always changing, and that we were kind of like a radically open country compared to almost every other country that ever existed.

1:04:15But that doesn't mean there's nothing. That doesn't mean there wasn't something that like, it's so The idea being here that like, look, man, like I got my my daughter, my oldest is eight and she's like a super smart kid. And she like reads books and stuff now and has like interesting thoughts of her own. And it's just really cool. It's like one of the most rewarding things about being a parent is like, oh, I used to have this little baby. And now it's like a real thinking person. And I do like cool philosophical conversations with my my daughter. But like, I'm not a tiger bomb. You know what I mean?

1:04:46Like or whatever they would call it. Like I would never push my kid like that. Like after school, you'll be in violin lessons and then you'll be reading more and then you'll be doing that because like, while I do value their intellectual development, actually I value their development as a person and I want them to have a childhood and I want them to kind of play and enjoy themselves. And I don't want them to be beaten down and be horribly resentful to me as the kids of tiger moms always are. And like, so, and you know, a big part of why I feel that way, Oren, is because I'm fucking American, dude.

1:05:14I'm not Asian. I'm fucking American. And that's why I feel that way. And like, and the nerve of you to be like a newcomer here and start lecturing me about how actually I'm raising my kid the wrong way. If they want to watch AC Slater on Saved by the Bell rather than love screech or whatever your point, like, no, dude. And also my, I'm sorry. My value is not that my kids make a billion dollars off a pharmaceutical company that they can flip. I want them to be in happy marriages and be good people, you know? And so like, I don't know. Yeah. There is really something about that where it's like, yeah, it's not just about illegal immigration.

1:05:46It's not just about illegals who are criminals. It's not just about illegals who vote or something like that. It's about the fact that the people of this country ought to have a say in what this country is. And we don't right now. Final thought on anything you want to you. I would just say that yeah that that's right and that's why putting the entire Republican voter base through this humiliation ritual of having to support this guy and not get a socialist is just evil because you're you're you're demoralizing your own people through this and you know that I think the long and the short of this that everyone Republican or Libertarian we're talking to today should should ultimately remember is that we're probably not voting our way out of this man.

1:06:24like you're probably not going to see an easy democratic solution where you just pull a lever and these problems are solved. The future belongs to the people who are going to fight for it inch by inch. People are having families of people who are operating in communities, building real, actual, robust structures. They are active in their local politics. They knew who their sheriff is. They're making sure that their property rights and their gun rights and their freedom of association are secured at individual levels, you know, state levels, community levels, that's going to matter. You're probably not just going to punch a ticket for someone in the Libertarian Party or someone in the Republican Party and this problem gets solved.

1:07:03That's a hard thing to hear, but your ancestors did it and you're going to have to do it. So buckle up and let's make this happen. Yeah. Amen. Well said. Dude, Oren, thank you so much for doing this. I particularly really appreciate that we were able to make this happen on short notice. please let people know where they can find your stuff. And I will just say again, that the total state was great, man. I really highly recommend people read that. That's Orrin's most recent book, but please plug any of your other stuff. Oh, no, thank you so much. I really appreciate that. And I appreciate you having me on again.

1:07:35Of course, I've got the Orrin McIntyre show on the blaze. It's on YouTube. It's on rumble. It's all the places you'd expect podcasts and everything else. And of course I have the book, the total state it's out in its second printing with an extra chapter. So if people want to grab that, they can do that. Oh, nice. I got to check that out. I haven't read the new chapter. Nice. All right, brother. Again, thank you so much. Thanks to everybody for listening. Catch you next time. Peace.