Candace Owens

24:48And, you know, like, you know, so when I did, I did an episode shortly after Charlie died, where I, I, in response to you, I read some of the personal text messages that he had sent me. And it was a little bit of a weird situation because look, well, look, typically speaking, I would never read private text messages ever with anyone. Like I wouldn't read private text messages that you sent me on a show because like, I don't know where there's, there's talking on the record and there's talking off the record. And so I wouldn't do, and specifically after someone dies, I wouldn't ever. So like my default position is like, no, I wouldn't share that.

25:24However, it's like everybody was reading messages. Benjamin Netanyahu was reading like things from, you know, really taken out of context from, from the letter that he wrote to him. Everybody's right. And the stuff I had was somewhat relevant, I thought, not to anything about his death, but just to the conversation of where he was on Israel and where he was. And so I was like, you know what, I think I should, full transparency, I should show this. But like, just for the sake of argument, right? Had I realized like a week later, that I was wrong. And those text messages weren't from Charlie Kirk, like I looked at my phone, I thought they were from Charlie, but they're from someone else.

25:57So they're from Charlie something else or whatever. I made a computer. Well, then like the onus would be on me, I'd have to go back on air and correct the record. So either way, right, either way, you could just say, I mean, the onus would once you come out and say, hey, this other person's lying. But then it gets confirmed that they weren't lying, that they were right about that. I do think the onus is on you. So I think that ends up making them look very bad. And then I got to say, I kind of was curious on on your thoughts about this, because, you know, just on the organization of Turning Point USA more broadly.

26:30because to some degree, you know, like almost for the sake of argument, let's just say for this, Tyler Robinson did kill Charlie Kirk. And let's even add in, he kind of acted alone. He wasn't even a part of the thing like that does. Okay. But in effect, we still already know that every member of the Israel lobby lied through their teeth to try to manipulate this thing. We know now that Erica came out and said you were lying when you were not, and it was correct. And But anyway, the point is, in effect, what's ended up happening here has been really a radical transformation in Turning Point USA.

27:03And one that Charlie explicitly promised it would not make. I mean, he went out of his way in the last few months of his life when he was getting, of course, the text message that is now famous is when they first tried to cancel Tucker. He goes, well, I'm going to invite Candace. future. And he, he went out of his way over and over again to say that he would never not be inviting Tucker or Megan Kelly. He told me we were going to do lots more stuff together in the future. I mean, like he was not, he was very clear that it's like, look, I'm not. And by the way, he explicitly, you know, kind of said to me at one point, like he, he drew a line at like Fuentes and those guys, he really did not like them for years of personal issues, you know, but that was it that he was like now dude like you're totally you have a legitimate right to question the relationship with israel or question israel israeli policy he was and now you have an organization he also said thomas massey was his favorite congressman he was a he was a ron paul guy at one point after all and now you have turning point usa not only did not stick up for thomas massey when the israel lobby stole that seat a foreign lobby stole the seat of a sitting u.s congressman as charlie kirk's favorite congressman and they didn't stand up for him And also, I don't know, I haven't kept up with the latest, Candace, but I don't think you or Tucker or even Megan are getting invited to a lot more Turning Point USA events.

28:23Maybe I'm wrong about Megan, but I certainly don't think me or you or Tucker are going back to any more. So like whether or not there was a conspiracy on what killed him in effect here, him being killed has transformed the biggest youth political conservative outreach organization to be something very different from the vision that their their founder and leader had in mind for them. a year ago. And that is what makes people not trust them. I actually was just so shocked. It was such a no-known from the beginning all the way through to the end that Charlie Kirk did not like Ben Shapiro. It's mind-boggling that his wife would take over the organization and at the very first big event at AmFest would have Ben Shapiro open after her.

29:05That is crazy that they would even allow him to sit in the studio of Charlie Kirk days later. You're going, what the heck is going on with a million dollars in hand you're just going what's happening here and then when Andrew Colbert then I mean this was such an extraordinary extraordinary lie that even Ben Shapiro came out and corrected it like Andrew Colbert I was like he was trying to but I was not friends with Charlie Kirk which is like I couldn't even believe it and Ben Shapiro was I said say I want you to actually say that he was friends before I released his messages and I did and it was going to be way more painful I released one I was about to release a whole set Then Ben Shapiro came out and told the truth.

29:40It was crazy. He then tweets, I've never said that Charlie and I were friends, blah, blah, blah. And I'm going, Turning Point USA is so nefarious that even Ben Shapiro is willing to tell the truth about something in relationship with Charlie because I was just going to blast him. I mean, I had so many messages screenshot and I was like every single year, all the way up until the very end of his perspectives about Ben Shapiro. He thought he was a snake. He thought he operated behind the scenes. Ben Shapiro, like everyone, you know, you think you're going to be friends with him And then suddenly he is, he's chronically Ben Shapiro.

30:11He's terminally Ben Shapiro. Right. And so the fact that they were willing to lie, but Andrew Colbert was willing to lie about that. It means that you are, you betray, you, you've betrayed Charlie. You just did betray, you are betraying him every single day when you take and stake positions that Charlie would have never taken. Um, and that is why people are going, what wife would allow this? What wife allows you hate the enemies harder after your husband has been killed after your friend has been killed. You would hate his enemies more in the immediate aftermath. And yet she has reserved more hatred for me than for Tyler Robinson.

30:49That's wild. She unblinkingly said he did this. He acted alone, told Barry Weiss, oh, she has no questions, essentially convicted him by saying, I forgive you, right? You got to do something wrong to be forgiven before anything came out, before she had any more data points. What is that going to make the public think about you. And you have to own that. You have to stop pretending this is Candace's fault. It was felt before Candace even turned her attention and went, well, that was weird. You lied about this text message. And it's because people are observing your behavior. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Ultra.

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31:55And the great thing is they use just six clean research back ingredients. It's a milligram of melatonin, L-theanine, magnesium, chamomile, passion flower, and lemon balm extracts. Nothing bad for you. Six healthy, clean ingredients that are all demonstrated to help you sleep. The bottom line is that ultra sleep pouches deliver better, deeper sleep with properly dosed and natural ingredients. And new customers can use the promo code problem and get 15 % off at takeultra.com. That's takeultra.com promo code problem for 15 % off. All right, let's get back into the show. Yeah, yeah. I was shocked to just, and I think I probably did bite my tongue a bit on some of this stuff at the time because it's just a weird dynamic, you know, and you know someone and they're murdered and it's their wife and, you know.

32:46But like, also, I just couldn't believe, like, you know, just the type of thing that makes you like question, like, who's around you? Who are your friends? Who's your support? Like no one, you didn't have anyone who would grab you and go like, hey, like, I don't think you should throw on leather pants and go up there and be all handsy with the vice president and have like pyrotechnics and stuff. Like this is just really, really, like you're opening yourself up to a whole, this looks so bizarre. Like, I don't know. I just, it's crazy to me that nobody had kind of intervened to prevent just the obvious thing.

33:22The other thing about it that I guess is, you know, in a weird way, probably nothing would have, would have like broken Charlie's heart more than to see where the coalition is today after all of this. And I guess we all kind of feel bad about that to some degree, you know, like Charlie was a guy who really just wanted to keep that winning coalition, the 2024 energy that we all had, you know, together. And of course, because of what this administration has done, I think there was just no way that was going to happen. But it is something where like, This has been a major theme to me of the last year is that essentially the Donald Trump coalition has been destroyed.

34:01It's much like with the Israel topic in general, you know, when the Zionist would be like, why are you know, why is Candace Owens exploding in popularity? And like they would think of everything except for Gaza, you know, like, yeah, yeah. We're kind of committing a holocaust on the side. Maybe that's the problem. it's never them. It's like you start this thing, you're kind of like journey on revisiting, you know, the Israel question. And you started being like, you're like, you know, I just had a baby. And then I saw an image of this baby who had like been crushed under a building. And then I'm just sitting there kind of thinking like, Oh, my God, that baby's as precious as my baby.

34:36And it could be my baby to imagine what my life would be if that happened to my baby. And then like everyone goes, what's her angle here? I think it might just be that I think it might just be the thing she said, like the baby getting crushed. She might be human. So is it like, is Qatari money coming in? Anyway, but so there's this whole, but similarly, there's been this huge, you know, there's this interesting dynamic where, okay, so when obviously this started with the 12 day war and the suppressing of the Epstein files, and then it was really just solidified by launching this war again, and the whole thing falling apart.

35:10But at first, when the war first launched, and you had those polls that said 99 % of MAGA loves these wars. Ben Shapiro and all those guys, they said the lesson here is that Tucker Carlson doesn't matter and Candace Owens doesn't matter and Alex Jones and Megyn Kelly. And sure, you might look next to their shows and see awfully huge numbers. And every time there's a chart, these are the biggest shows out there, but they don't matter. They're totally irrelevant and there's no connection. Now, a year later, the story is that it's all your guys' fault that the coalition broke up. You went from not mattering at all to being responsible to taking down the biggest coalition ever.

35:46Whereas like what's right in front of all of us is that it's just like, dude, no one wanted another war. Right. No one wanted another war for Israel. Obviously. And the other thing is, yeah, support for Israel has completely collapsed. And so people that continue to lie to them about Israel or lie on behalf of Israel are just not getting support. And you're blaming it on me and Tucker. I don't know why you're blaming it on me and Tucker. Again, we were one of the last ones to really join the party, maybe the first out of the Republican Party to say, like, I'm, you know, I'm done with this. Getting fired, obviously, publicly kind of being hung for having a totally rational perspective that genocide is always wrong.

36:20I didn't know that there were exclusions on that. I didn't know that genocide is sometimes OK. And but sticking sticking to being willing to lose my career and being willing not to change my position for money, which I think is unusual and has built up trust with the audience. Like if I care about something and I'm principled about something, I'm not going to pivot on those things. But to your bigger, your other point, this is what's amazing. Speaking about turning point, uh, linking up with whoever they don't, they have no morals anymore. They don't care about anything. Um, and that recent piece that they did with Brandy Zazdrozny, uh, from NBC, Charlie hated this woman.

36:56I mean, talk about the messages I have. She was the original person who did a hit piece on me and Charlie, uh, back in 2018. It was like one of our first lessons with the media, how you can sit down with a reporter, invite them in, go take them to dinner. She did pay her own dinner. And then we were just so shocked by what she wrote. This woman is not just an ally of transgenderism. She's like far, like she's extreme on transgenderism. She believes that children should be trans. Erica sits down with her. So your husband hated her. You believe a trans furry killed your husband. And you're sitting down with Brandy Zdrozny to write a hippie song.

37:30Candace, you'll partner with anyone when it comes to the topic of Candace. But what was in that piece is so telling because they basically say they could have reunited an already fracturing Republican Party, which was fracturing over the Iranian war and the Epstein files had it not been for Candace Owens. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe they put it in writing and didn't realize that. Yeah, guys, this is crazy. Charlie's death was supposed to make you forget about the pedophiles that Trump was looking the other way on. You were supposed to make you forget about the Zionists who were involved in the Epstein files that Trump was looking away from, in which in your good sense, you said, I don't care if I supported MAGA.

38:07I'm not supporting someone who is okay with children being abused or is willing to look the other way when people who are giving him money are plausibly abusing children. You were moral in that perspective, and we were going to distract you by telling you, oh, but remember the left, the left bad, bad left, bad trans, bad this. I couldn't believe it, but that is their position. And Blake Neff has shared that. Andrew Colbert shared that. That is what they hate me for, is stopping us going back to this basic structure, this paradigm of left versus right. Which is so, which, you know, it's so fundamentally misunderstands the dynamic of what's going on.

38:47Because like in a way, I don't know, it's like they're almost going, first of all, they're going, there's first when they go, oh, Tucker Carlson doesn't matter or Candace Owens doesn't matter. It's like, okay, now they're trying to downplay your significance as if you guys aren't massively influential figures, which is stupid, you know, but then when they go, you destroyed the whole coalition or you could have kept it together, you're massively overestimating how much influence any one of us actually has. The thing that people don't get, right, is that there's a mass awakening going on. People like us have been a part of this.

39:24We're talking about this and our audiences respect and enjoy our perspectives and like that we're telling the truth as we see it. But that doesn't mean that we're their emperor God. Like in other words, if I were to just come out tomorrow and go, yeah, you know, actually, whatever, let Israel take Lebanon and let them kill some of those people. It's not that my audience would go, all right, well, then I guess that's what we're doing they'd be like wait Dave's been compromised he's not telling the truth anymore it's not like as if it's not like as if they if they took out you and Tucker Carlson and Joe Rogan it's not like your audiences would then go back to listening to Jake Tapper and go oh okay I guess that's what the truth you know what I'm saying like it's like no like they're the the truth is that not me or you or anyone else is skilled enough to have spun this away to keep the coalition together.

40:15Too many people. The whole point was no more of these stupid wars and drain the swamp. That was the whole point. If we're covering up the most corrupt goddamn thing ever, whatever exactly the Jeffrey Epstein thing was in one way or the other, it's the most corrupt thing ever in the world. So there's that. And then we're launching more wars. We're killing people by the thousands and wasting hundreds of billions of dollars, all literally so obviously at this point, Candace. I mean, I remember even when me and you first met, which wasn't that long ago, And I'd be like, dude, we fought the war in Iraq for the Israel lobby.

40:46And you'd be like, whoa, this is crazy. We have a but now is it even like a thing? You got to convince us we're fighting this war so that Israel can take southern Lebanon. It was crazy. So this was just way too obvious. They weren't even trying with this one. I mean, we're learning that Bibi Netanyahu is in the situation room. Trump is sitting down, listening to him, telling him how it's going to go. And then we understand the fundamental stupidity of our own president that he thought that it was convincing that we would be able to be out of this in two weeks. weeks, like two weeks to flatten the curve on Iran.

41:16This is Persia. They've been around. Like, this is not just going to be a country that you're going to overtake in two weeks. So you're telling me he's so fundamentally stupid that a person that's in middle school, you could have the foreign policy level of a middle schooler trying to write a paper and you would go, no, no, that's absurd. If you are the president, you go, I don't even need to be deep on this topic. But the fact that you pitched me this stupidity, you're fired. That's what he should have said, right? Obviously, we're not taking this over in two weeks by, oh, we're just going to have an aerosol and it's going to be over.

41:43I don't need to be an expert on military. I don't have no military expertise to tell you that that is such a nonsense. And Trump went for it, right? He went for two weeks to flatten the curve. That's supposed to be the stupidity that they tell us because they think we're all dumb and we're not. Two weeks and this will all be over. But he pitched that to a president, a city. And Trump said, yeah, no, that sounds good. And in this room of people who we're now all learning are fundamentally dumb, corrupt, and blackmailed, they were willing to put American lives on the line. And now we're learning about the ships and what's been going on there and people that are trying to jump off of them because we always knew from the very beginning that this was unwinnable.

42:20So the audience is smarter than you think. Okay. That's what, that's what the lesson is in all of this. The propaganda is not slapping the same. They've then gone, okay, CNN, MSNBC, they fall and people don't believe them. So we can just employ a bunch of influencers to do what they were doing. And it's going to somehow look independent. No, when they all come out the same talking points, people are recognizing that as well. So you have basically only one option, one option, and it's the one you never want to take. Tell the truth. Listen to the people when they tell you what they want. And don't be surprised when you completely abandon every issue that you stood on, every promise that you made, and the people are no longer with you.

42:57Don't play shock. Don't play it's Tucker's fault. It's Candace's fault. It's whoever's fault. Blame yourself for once in your miserable life. And that is how I feel about Donald Trump today. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Quince. Summer always changes the way you get dressed. You want pieces that feel lighter, that are more breathable, things that are easy but still put together. Well, you got to check out Quince. Their European linen pants and shirts are the perfect warm weather upgrade to add to your rotation, starting at just$34. Their tees are soft and easy to wear, and their lightweight cotton sweaters are perfect for cooler summer nights.

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44:08So elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash POTP right now for free shipping on your orders and 365-day returns. That's now available in Canada too. It's quince.com slash POTP. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash POTP for free shipping and 365 day returns. All right, let's get back into the show. Yeah, well said. Amen. And even as you say it, you know, it's like he did. He also fell for the original two weeks to flatten the curve. I mean, he was the president at that time, too. So he fell in both his first and second term, got suckered into a different version of it. And it is two weeks.

44:50Yeah, that's right. But it does almost in the same way. You know, if you remember the Jon Stewart joke that he told, you know, 10 months after all the rest of us had told it, but then it was okay to say it when Jon Stewart said, but he goes, the thing where he goes, he's like, it's the name of the lab, like the lab and the virus have the same name. Well, like in the same sense, you're almost like, well, who would have imagined the Persians would exercise so much control over the Gulf. And you're like, what do they call the Gulf? It's the Persian Gulf. Persia is a whole half of the Gulf. Like, yeah, there's the other Arab side, I guess, but like, how are you good?

45:24And even the idea. You know, it's like people don't even, you know, look, man, like, of course, this whole plan was stupid and unwinnable. And everyone with an ounce of wisdom always suggested that. But look, man, I mean, I remember very vividly, like I was me already. I was the guy obsessed with the wars and the government and the economy and all this. When Obama's drone war program was this crazy new thing. And he had expanded. I mean, it started under Bush, and then he expanded it. But it was like a new thing that we had predator drones that can go like hunt people down and we have kill lists and all this stuff.

45:58And we were the only ones who had them. No other military in the world had predator drones. And, you know, the explosion of drones just in the last 20 years now, everyone's got them. They're a, they were a huge, huge force in the Ukrainian war. They're a huge factor in this war. And now they got these cheap$20 ,000 drones. Okay. But what's that going to be in 10 years. I mean, in 10 years, they're probably going to be able to produce these things for a few hundred bucks, essentially saying that any Persian insurgency could keep the straight clothes. Like even if Benjamin Netanyahu got his regime change there, what do you need?

46:33You need a few hundred thousand men with a budget of a few hundred thousand dollars, you know, like, and they're going to be able to attack ships and drive the price of insurance up. Yeah, the whole thing is totally unwinnable. It's an absolute disaster. And one of the things that was super compelling for me, so I went to Russia earlier this year and I had gotten an opportunity because they were freaking out about me going to Russia to then go hear Putin speak at the SPF forum, which is actually, people are so dumb, it's attended, the Trump administration was there, but they were like, yeah, this is there.

47:02Okay. So it was Trump administration. Like this is like Davos of the East or whatever. But anyways, one of the things that really stood out to me was how much, and I had already been reading Putin's speeches when things are breaking out whenever. And I was like, OK, what's actually happening? Let me read Biden's speech. Let me read Putin's speech and figure out what the truth is in between, which is what you should do. Right. But one of the things that is so shocking to me and the difference in the way that our government treats us versus like the way Putin addressed his people is he takes a very long time to articulate why he's doing something.

47:35Right. He believes that they actually whether you think he's lying or he's telling the truth that he sits down, and we saw this even in the Tucker Carlson interview, and he will explain why we are justified in doing what we are doing in Ukraine. Now, you weigh that against Trump. I don't care what you think about what we're doing in Iran. I don't care if you think your gas prices are high. We're just doing what we do. We're dropping bombs. Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran. We get a little meme online, and next thing you know, we're bombing Iran. He's articulated no reason. He's articulated no way in which we're going to be out of this.

48:04He doesn't feel he has to. There's such a fundamental disrespect for the people, and that's really bothering me now where it's like, even if you are lying, could you at least articulate a lie to us? Like, could you, could you come out and could you sit down and could you answer questions for three hours like Putin did, you know, in front of these people and say, I'm here and you can ask me every single question about what we're doing, why we're going to do Iran, despite the fact that none of you guys want to do this, why I think it's so important for us to be in there. And that is like, there's a fundamental difference there.

48:36And also just spending time with the Russian people, which I think now makes me understand the Persian people. They have been around for so long that I was sitting down interviewing a director there. And he said to me, you Americans come to us with your deals, right? You want us to sign a deal. You have no concept of what ancestry means. Like what, what we don't care about a deal. Like thousands of years ago, our ancestors were here. We know where we're from. We're not going to cut a deal and, and sell We'd literally rather die than to pay attention to one of your deals. And that's something that it was like, just, okay, this is, they are fighting for something different and fighting for something more.

49:15I think it's even why people say, you know, Afghanistan is like the graveyard of empires because our mindset in such a young country, 200 years, can't comprehend that there's something deeper and something that's more spiritual that drives people that have lived through so much, right? That's why I say you are talking about Persia. You're going to take Persia in two weeks. Yes. Okay. We call it Iran. They have been here for so long and they will be fighting for something different. And we saw that when we were threatening to bomb up their infrastructure and a bunch of people just stood outside willing to die, willing to die rather than like, OK, Trump.

49:49Yeah, we might die. That literally is what they're saying. Could you imagine that happening? It gives you chills to even consider that. Could you imagine that happening in America? And so, yeah, that's something that I'm very aware of now is that they have such little respect for us that even when they get caught red handed bombing an Iranian school for no reason at all, they go, we ain't do that. Iranian people bad. They did that. They brown. They did that. It's like, OK, just at least have enough respect to own it and say we made a mistake. You know, they still haven't. They still have not owned that mistake.

50:19Oh, yeah. No, I mean, and it was even after even after it was confirmed, it was a tomahawk. Donald Trump was still sitting there. In fact, you remember, there was the one moment where he actually is the most uncomfortable I've ever seen. Pete Hegseth, who no one has ever accused of being a genius. But like unlike Donald Trump, Pete Hegseth knows what a tomahawk missile is. And so it had come out that it was a tomahawk. And Donald Trump goes, you know, it could have been from anybody. I mean, it was a tomahawk, but it's not necessarily ours. What do you think? And then Pete's like, we'll have to wait for the investigation to cut because even he knows like like I don't know that Trump knows that there's only a handful of countries that have tomahawk missiles.

50:56The Israelis don't even have tomahawk missiles like Britain. What is your what is the accusation here that like France smuggled a fucking tomahawk to the Iranians? Then they dropped on top of their own girls school. Like it was just too already before the investigation. Like it was just it was too ridiculous. But like you said, no, I mean, look, there is a certain point. And this is this is something that I do try to, you know, kind of push right wingers on. But there's something to listen, man, like on a spiritual level, there's something so dark about killing a bunch of little girls and then not even taking the responsibility for lying about it.

51:33But, you know, this was you. And like, OK, if you want to say this was war and it's a tragic mistake. I mean, I still consider it murder in the first degree because you launch a war of choice and then you're responsible for everyone you kill in that thing. If you ask me, you know, right. But and no explanation. They couldn't have even made the mistake. I mean, if you watch Sky News's investigation into it, they knew every body that was moving in there. It is incomprehensible what they did and it should not be forgotten. OK, you just you just murdered a bunch of schoolgirls and there's no explanation.

52:04And there's not there's not an apology. There's not owning it. Mistakes certainly can't happen. I mean, even if they came out and said, yes, this was us, we are sorry, this was an issue. Like, that would be more respect for the people. But they just think we're so dumb that he's just like, no. Literally, Pete Hex says in that clips, that's something Iranians do, not something that we do. Right, right, right. It's ridiculous. Also, just like the basic, look, the basic lesson, which is there's always something so fascinating about this, I guess, particularly from my perspective, because I'm like, I feel like I'm always arguing on behalf of what this country was.

52:37founded on explicitly, but also the fact that this country literally was founded on a war against the most powerful military in the world, using the understanding of the problems with insurgency and with asymmetrical warfare and understanding that like, listen, dude, it's just like if somebody inherently, there might be me versus somebody, right? But if that, if somebody is trying to break into my house to kill my family, there's just immediately huge advantages that I have in that fight. Like this is not meeting with guns in an open field somewhere. First of all, I'm the most motivated fighter there is because I'm fighting on behalf of my family living.

53:21So this isn't like, there's not an option to retreat, right? There is no, I can't let my family get killed. Number two, you're on my, you're in my home. I have weaponry. I know the, the layout of this house more than you do. You know, there's a bunch of advantages. And I think one of the other things that Americans really don't have an appreciation for is the level of suffering that some of these other countries have been through collectively, you know, together that America just hasn't, you know, you look at like, this is one, you know, as you start talking about the connection kind of between the Russians and the Persians or whatever, or the Iranians more broadly, the, you know, Russia collapsed twice twice in the 20th century like their entire government collapsed twice right with the bolshevik revolution i guess even three times if you want to technically count like during the bolshevik revolution there were two collapses and then they collapsed when the when the soviet union collapsed they were invaded twice they took on losses of tens of millions now i'm not even getting into the 90s when their life expectancy collapsed over the crazy shock therapy stuff and And so like they're just the people had been through it.

54:26And same with the Iranians. I mean, if you look at their war with with Iraq in the 1980s, hundreds of thousands of people killed, sanctioned Kripa. Like these when you threaten them with war, these people are war torn and used to suffering a lot more than the people that we know. That's just kind of a part of the reality. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what you when you recognize that it's so different to go and visit these places. I picked up on that and I was going, wow, they are fighting for something totally different than what's being sold to us. And Trump hasn't considered that. Like he doesn't have the depth to be able to be able to consider that.

54:58Like he generally thinks they can be defeated in two weeks. And like you said, you're like they couldn't be defeated three times and they're still here. And and so I really resent the fact that we can never get a clear answer, an honest response, and that they continually think that we are too stupid to be able to handle that. And it's because they have no reason to be there outside of Israel. That's the reason that even if they were to articulate it, the honest truth would be we're doing it because Bibi told us to do it. That's it. There's no going to be no upside to the American people. And we've just been doing this for so long and nobody noticed.

55:29And we're kind of shocked that everybody noticed. We tried to use Charlie Kirk assassination to parlay that into more support for Israel. We even posted an AI photo of him hugging the flag of Israel on the day that he died. We thought that would work. And, you know, it didn't. And we don't really know what to do and we don't really know how to get out of this thing. that's going to be another question how do we even get out of this thing um and that's where we're at right now like in that and i do think that is a lot of the reason that there is so much nastiness toward me is because they wanted to use charlie's death to rally support for israel and they blame me for having stopped that erica was ready shabbat shalom barry weiss go on tour he loved israel so much like you know and i i ruined something you know i ruined something there All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Goldback, a great company, an amazing product.

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56:49They're real 24 karat gold that you can spend like cash. They're one of the most affordable ways to own fractional gold. And they've already become the leading non-crypto alternative currency that's out there. So there's no accounts, there's no fees, no data tracking, just person to person transactions, an actual currency that is on a gold standard. So stop relying on a broken system and head over to goldback.com slash Dave to learn more. That's goldback.com slash Dave. All right, let's get back into the show. And that's very interesting because that can be a real dynamic kind of independent of whatever even is the correct theory about Charlie Kirk.

57:29You know, I said this in my last episode that there's something to me, I think also with like, because there's there's an interesting thing where i go okay even if you don't think even if you think candace has has gone down rabbit holes that aren't worth going down and okay she's saying when she's pressed about what she thinks that she thinks the israelis and the french were involved but she herself will admit she can't prove that that's the case or whatever of course i just go like well we're right but like even at the same time you go like okay like there's always been conspiracy theorists out there there's conspiracies that are correct there's conspiracies that are not correct.

58:02There's always been people that are theorizing. And like, I just find it kind of interesting when there are people who are like really good friends with Alex Jones, who are like really going after you for pursuing this path. Or you're like, I don't know, he was pursuing whether the government was trying to reduce the human population to 300 ,000 in an effort to form one world government. By the way, none of that ended up happening. But I don't know, I'm still just more angry at the George W. Bush administration. And like, in this example, that that you're talking about here, it's not as, again, I guess, I guess more or less what I'm, what I'm saying here is that it's like, there's what you said, something else is going on here.

58:42Something else where it's like, yes, I think what you said that you, you have very effectively changed the conversation from being like, oh, we're going to rally around kind of raw, raw, low IQ conservative of slop, which I've seen a real effort to push out there. Like it's the left, the left versus us, the left hates all of us. And like, you know, and don't get me wrong. There are disgusting leftists out there. There were people who were celebrating Charlie Kirk's as the creepiest thing in the world, but actually that's kind of a pretty isolated, sad, mentally disturbed person. I don't know that that does represent the left broadly, you know, like I don't actually think that's true.

59:22And so like, I don't know. I just, I guess I do question like where, what the motivation with a lot of these different things are. And I look, there's no question that I think you're really onto something when you say that that's what this was supposed to be used as, but not implying that it was done for that reason, but simply saying that a lot of people tried to manipulate that to be like, Hey, we're going to make this a rah, rah. We all get back into the coalition. And then of course, we're supposed to just not question the fact that even though you've won the argument ben shapiro gets to be in charge of the policy somehow you know what i mean like even though crazy and we're supposed to just fall in line with that whereas like the thing is like no that's not what we think the appropriate response to this is we're not just going to support neocon policies because a guy who didn't support neocon policies got tragically killed that doesn't make it is kind of just amazing that it's particularly people who support israel who want the investigation into charlie kirk's death to have been open and shut i mean that's just it's I notice patterns.

1:00:21It's kind of weird. I haven't seen one person who's radically perennial be like, oh, that is kind of weird. You know, that is kind of weird. You don't have to totally bite every conspiracy theory, but to not recognize the anomalies in this case, like they won't even be like, hey, that is kind of weird that Joe Kent was shut down from investigating foreign ties. No, they all attack Joe Kent immediately. Joe Kent is this. He's a betrayed. He leaked all of these things. Guys, that's why people find Israel to be suspicious. is because none of you will even concede the points that are easy to concede.

1:00:51Like if I was actually like, let's say this is hypothetical, that Israel actually killed him. If I'm in charge of the PR policy, I'm going to say to my PR people, my Zionists, I'm going to be like, you know, lean in a little bit to like, I recognize the obvious, be like, Hey, yeah, you know, that is a little weird about we should investigate those Egyptian planes. We should know he should be allowed to take a look at foreign involvement. Maybe it's Iran. I think Iran did it. They were just completely like anti Joe Kent, Turning Point USA included. That's why people think you're shady, right? You're attacking Joe Kent for telling, telling people I was not allowed to investigate foreign ties.

1:01:28That's wild. And of course, how is that not a natural partnership for you to bring him on when he leaves? And Erica should be shocked by this. Instead, he's saying Kash Patel didn't let me do this. And Erica's friendly with Kash Patel. That's crazy. That's like, it's a total inversion. I'm sorry. people are noticing those strange anomalies and thinking that it makes them uncomfortable. And yes, this is going to shock you, Dave. Like I really don't want to shock you. If the government is actually involved in the assassination of Charlie Kirk, they're not going to want you to have the evidence. It's a crazy thing.

1:02:03JFK assassination. Where is your hard evidence? You know what? I did call the military and ask them to confirm whether or not people were on the ground that day and they wouldn't do it. Like when he was pushing me on the France thing, I'm like, this came from a military source. I did everything right and reported this. What else am I going to be able to do? That would be the job of Tulsi Gabbard's office, the job of the White House, the job of our military to investigate. Like they're putting the burden on us because they don't want to do their jobs and look into foreign ties. That's completely upside down.

1:02:36So, yeah, we're limited as citizens in terms of being able to probe things. but we can point out the strange anomalies and we can clock the lies. And that's what I have been doing and what I'll be continuing to doing on my program. Yeah. You know, I said the other day on, um, on the show that, cause I know people will say this is one and I hate this because, well, there's, I guess these are also partly my libertarian roots. Cause I am like a real kind of, you know, Thomas Sowell, Murray Rothbard kind of guy deep down, but like people go, Oh, Candace is milked that she's made so much money over the last year talking about these conspiracies.

1:03:08And it's like, I don't know. I always found that was almost like, yeah, but that's like saying like, oh, LeBron James has made so much money because he played for the Lakers. It's like, well, he's made a lot of money playing for the Lakers, but he would have made a lot of money had he gone to another team. also like it's just like no this is one of the biggest broadcasters in america so yes she's made a lot of money on her show but your show literally your show what did you get i can't remember the exact one but it's like broke the youtube i think you got like three million subscribers the first day or two days when you left the daily wire like it was insane like it was that we were already we were already in the top 10 podcast globally so it's so crazy that they're pretending that i needed my friend to die to keep me there i think actually like kind of more what's going on here which is something that I find to be an interesting dynamic.

1:03:53And I think this is true on, on the left with the democratic socialist rise. In fact, I said this on Pierce Morgan to that. What's the guy, the Babylon B guy. When we were debating the other one, Seth Dillon. And then you, I think played the clip on your show, but I said to him at one point, I go like, well, you guys are so mad that Candace Owens is so huge. Nick Fuentes is so huge. And like, it's all your fault. I was like, it's all because of you, you guys are the way. And so essentially, I think like really, and this is my read on it essentially here is that just like, I remember this happening with COVID.

1:04:27I was super against all the restrictions very early in COVID. It was a really unpopular position. It was dangerous. It was like, oh, this might get you demonetized. This might get you kicked off of a social media thing. And then slowly we won the argument. And then by the end of it, it was just real wind at your back because you had all this street cred from being the one who was. And that's what's happened to everyone who was against what Israel did to Gaza. That really is kind of the long of the short of it here is that everybody who just opposed that the most obvious evil thing ever to oppose got a whole lot of street credit.

1:04:59And now they have credibility with their audience when it comes to other issues. And don't get me wrong. I don't love that. A lot of the lefties are trying to push socialism with the credit that they've earned from being against the war. But at the same time, if you look at someone like Cuomo and you go, well, why did mom Donnie win? And it's like, well, because it's a rejection of you. And I just think in a similar sense, it's like, no, it's not that it's not that. Oh, you like like it's the same misunderstanding the moment of going, oh, so you got a big audience because you talk about conspiracies with Charlie.

1:05:31It's like, no, you had the big audience. You had the credibility and they followed you on that is a much more accurate way of like just describing what we've all just lived through and witnessed. And and then I want to give you a final word on this. But I also do think I'm interested, just your take, this last question, I promise. I think that trend is going to continue going forward in American politics. And I think that for the future of, say, like, broadly speaking, like non-interventionist, non-war hawk, right-wingers, whatever broadly we would define ourselves as, we're going to have to get people who have been against this from the beginning.

1:06:09And I'm looking at Tucker Carlson, Thomas Massey, people like that. I think they're the only ones who are going to be able to carry this thing forward. I don't see how anyone from this administration does it. Yeah, we finally have reached a point where it pays to tell the truth. Right. And we were not living in the pre-COVID world. I'm actually happy COVID happened. I looked back on it and I realized that it was the it was an evil which fractured people's trust with the mainstream media. People who listened to them, did what they said, masked themselves, didn't speak to their family members, took it.

1:06:40You know, my sister was one of them. Like she would let me meet her baby. And I was like, I'm not doing this. I was never, I mean, not even for a single day did I accept a narrative because I was already anti-vax. And I knew how, what the government does and had researched it. And so, yeah, you are, I earned a little bit of credibility there. But more importantly, as the audience has said, I don't actually, I now recognize these sorts of campaigns where you start saying the same thing. Wear a mask, save lives. I say on my show now it's like the evidence is overwhelming. that Tyler Robinson did this.

1:07:06Like, why are you all saying the same thing? Why are you using, you know, honor the widow, honor the widow? It's like, no, just articulate something that makes sense that happened on September 10th. I don't need to honor anybody. Like, just tell me like actually what happened. And I want to believe something that makes sense. Like my brain naturally wants to do that. And so I agree with you. It's going forward, you're going to have to tell the truth. And for some reason, you know, across the board, left and right, that shocks people because they're so used to be given, you know, all of these awards and accolades and being told that they're amazing because they're just putting on a performance and they're lying.

1:07:39But we're in this weird place now where that no longer serves. They look like they're lying. They sound like they're lying. And so not only just tell the truth, but also exercise humility. When you get something wrong, say, oh, I showed you guys, I do that on my show all the time where I'm like, I was pursuing this and then I learned this information. So that's just not right. Demonstrate that you're willing to be wrong. Like you're not some expert that gets to Dr. Fauci your way through this stuff. And you know what I mean? And Dr. Fauci your way through this and say, well, I'm this person or that person.

1:08:10And be passionate about what you're speaking about. I think also it matters as well. People know that I deeply care about what happened to Charlie. Like I said, when I said, there was no Candace without Charlie, I meant that. I came up in politics with him. He trained me on how to debate. He trained me on all this stuff. We traveled the world together. And my perspective shifted on Israel first, his shifted second, like just shortly behind it. and we never lost our relationship in between that. You know, it's the same way that like, I know that if I were ever to be having a debate on Israel, I wouldn't want to debate you on it.

1:08:38Like you're just, you've read so much common sense. I'm not going to go into that. This is something that you've been passionate about that you actually had to do something and stand up to people that you should have been naturally allied with. And you're just deeper on the topic, be reasonable and allow people that know more to speak about topics as well. You know, yield that floor to them almost and find what it is that actually drives you. and yeah I think actually despite all the things that have happened America is actually becoming in many ways more cohesive the left and right paradigm is fracturing and there's just a lot to be hopeful for yeah I really that was very well said and I completely agree all right well Candace I always just love talking to you I adore you thank you so much for for taking the time as I said to you off air yeah more importantly than your debate victory congratulations on your growing beautiful family.

1:09:26I wish you all the best with the third trimester and don't be easy on George. You know, it's not his fault. That's what I remember. It's women. You really don't understand what men have to go through in that third trimester. It's very hard on us. Try to just be. It's just honestly, yeah, it is. It's a third trimester. It's just the absolute worst. It's when the pregnancy begins. And so it was, it was not a good time to come down to debate me and think that I was going to tolerate you acting like a brat. Okay, it's not going to work. That's the worst time to come and try to disrespect me to my face.

1:09:59But it was calm, but you had calm mom energy, which was good. It was like, no, we won't be doing any of that today. All right, well, thank you so much. Of course, everybody, you know where you can find The Candace Owens Show and you can follow her all over social media. We'll throw a link to the Andrew Wilson debate in the description, but judging by the view counts, I think everyone has seen it already. But in case you haven't, we'll throw that there. Thank you so much, Candice. Keep up the great work and we'll talk soon. Thank you so much. See you guys next time.