Cenk Uygur

31:59I loved it. Right. So anyway, so we're at this critical point now because, like you said, Trump says, OK, now, cut it out. No more bombing Lebanon. Let's get to peace. Because ExxonMobil saying, guys, even if we don't restart the war, a barrel of oil is going to 150 to 160 dollars. So there's going to be an economic iceberg we're going to hit that is kind of inevitable. And if you restart the war, oh, my God, you know, they didn't get into that. But now we're talking about two hundred dollars. I mean, people have no idea about the devastation that's about to happen. OK, economically. And so so Trump has to get out of it.

32:40I mean, he can't, it'll obliterate his term, his legacy, his reputation, the economy, his party, the country. So it'll ruin what people think of Trump. So he must get out. Now, on the other hand, you have Netanyahu comes out and goes, no, shut up, Donald. I'm going to bomb Lebanon even more. And I'm going to bomb Beirut. And Ben Gavir says, bomb the suburbs of Beirut where the civilians are. Mass bombings, right? So they say basically, America, who the fuck do you think you are? We're in charge. You're not in charge. So now the reason why it's such good news that we're talking today is because we're all about to find out together who's in charge.

33:24So if America, if Trump goes, look, this is a bridge too far. Now, I get it. You guys gave me hundreds of millions of dollars and you have this and you promised me secret deals and Trump Tower and all of that and the Trump Riviera. But this is going to destroy me. So, no, I'm pulling out. That means America still has some level of sovereignty left. Right. But if we then go, oh, so sorry, our overlords, we told you to stop and you told us we're losers and that we have to obey you. And so now we're obeying you and going further into the war. Then Israel doesn't have a little of an influence, a little control.

34:01No, that means they have 100 percent control over Trump at a minimum and over certainly our government and our media. and now I don't get to determine that. That's why we do predictions on the Young Turks. I'm telling you ahead of time so you can see with your own eyes. Because Dave, you and I know that after it happens, if it turns out we go back into the war and follow Netanyahu's commands, everyone on TV and the New York Times, et cetera, will turn around and go, oh no, you can't say Israel influenced that. No, no, no, no. Like America was gonna do that anyway. They always do revisionist history.

34:35So if you say it ahead of time, you'll know that there is a script, right? And there is a certain pattern here and you can discern it. Yeah, I can't argue with that. I wanted to ask you about this Axios piece from yesterday, which is, you know, I'm not really myself completely sure what to make of it. So there's a piece that essentially is saying that they, you know, Axios has throughout this entire war served as the mouthpiece of the regime. They feed it stories and they run the stories that they want to. It's unbelievable how much they can just get things wrong and then just keep moving. They've reported on the deal being done several times already.

35:18Seems to be some blatant market manipulation going on there. But yesterday they have this piece that Donald Trump has a furious phone call with Benjamin Netanyahu and he's cursing him out. And he's like, you're a maniac. Now, to be fair, Axios has had other pieces like this before. And if you remember, Crystal Ball made this point on Twitter recently that like, yeah, they used to run these pieces about how Biden was cracking down on Israel behind the scenes. And then, oh, Trump's furious at Israel behind the scenes. And it's not I don't know. There's something in it that it to me, at least on the surface, I tend to go like this is all just made up because also even just given like the 12 day war.

35:57I mean, the exact same dynamic went on there. Israel lured us into the war, set the no enrichment standards, poisoned the negotiations, led the first attack. And then when Trump wanted the off ramp in a ceasefire, they kept the bombing up. And then Trump, you know, has that one comment where he says they all don't know what the fuck they're doing or whatever. it's like so part of me is like this isn't real but if it is like there's basically two options either that's not true and yet the administration wants us to think that behind the scenes they are cracking the whip on on israel or it is true in which case it's exactly what you just said it is like okay so what comes of that so you told them they didn't want they're not allowed to do this thing.

36:43They're doing it anyway. And you do what? Because I will say, like, you know, I was listening to an interview with Jeffrey Sachs recently. And, you know, he said something in a very simple way that I think maybe I've been kind of under acknowledging this whole time, which is that he's like, what's all this talk about a deal? We don't need a deal. Why do we need to make a deal with the Iranians? Like there's we're worlds apart on the nuclear issue. We're worlds apart on intercontinental ballistic missiles. We're worlds apart on proxies. There's no deal to be made here, but we could just stop and come home and not support Israel anymore.

37:22And what are they going to do? Keep the Strait of Hormuz closed and make everyone in the world hate them forever, doing something blatantly illegal? No, eventually they're going to have to stop and they'll just get to it. So anyway, the point being, short of whatever grip the Israel lobby has over Donald Trump, there's no law in logic that says we can't just do all of that okay you're furious at israel tell around you know what we can't control israel but we're not helping them anymore so between you guys they'd be fine with that that'd be the best that'd be the best win they could hope for let's just do that so dave again we're talking at a perfect time because the proof is about to be in the pudding and uh and we're gonna have a definitive answer uh and so but let me break down uh what you're saying so uh anna has a theory that, well, first of all, Barack Ravid is former Israeli intelligence, right?

38:16So, okay, now that doesn't mean that he's not reformed, you know, and now in media, et cetera. But back in the Biden days, you know, we are not normal Democrats or people on the left, right? So normally, you know, you do propaganda for your side. That's like the old school way of doing media. but we started doing it new way 24 years ago hey where we're like no we're gonna call out both sides and so when biden would do those strongly worded calls or letters to net yahoo we would mock him to no end what a little bitch right oh here's 21 billion dollars to commit a genocide but oh but please don't i beg you israel i beg you not to kill all of them why are you begging them how about hey dude remember there was one week where he sold them weapons and asked them not to use the weapons he just sold them there was one week where like he said i forget the type of bomb it was but he gave it to him and then went please don't use this and then they used it you're like yo dude what is this it's just resistance yeah it's pathetic and you know i hate it under both biden and trump because not only are we losing our sovereignty but we're losing our self-respect what is this groveling to a country the size of papa new guinea that's their population it's nearly identical and it's and when you put in papa new guinea instead of israel everybody realizes how absurd it is, but it's because of, you know, mainstream media brainwashing that we think, no, no, Israel, like, yeah, even though they're tiny, they should control us.

39:43We should go into every war for them. We should pay, do$8 trillion of the global war on Israel's neighbors. So, okay. So, and his theory is, yeah, Barack Ravid has done this a hundred times. He basically works for the Israelis and he did it under Biden. He did it under Trump, just like you said, right? And so these are all fake outs to make it seem like we're two different entities, but in reality, Israel calls the shots and this is all fake theater and drama. So that's perfectly legitimate. And maybe that's exactly what's going on. But if that's true, okay, then you have your answer. Israel's in charge.

40:14Okay. Now to exactly to your point. Now, if you go to the other scenario, that's the scenario that I was describing, right? So maybe in this case, they really did have a blow up and Trump really is frustrated. That doesn't sound unrealistic, right? He's like, Netanyahu, why are you making me destroy my reputation and my presidency and my country and my party. And Netanyahu says, shut up, bitch. OK, and now we're going to find out in that scenario. Well, who's the bitch, right? Who serves who? Who's the overlord? And we're not it doesn't matter what we say and it doesn't matter what the religions are.

40:50What matters is what happens in the real world. So if we go back into this disastrous war and you everyone will see with their eyes or their own eyes, how disastrous the economic fallout will be, it will be because Israel made us, because Trump doesn't want to be in, we don't want to be in, 80 % of Americans don't want to be in. And so now again, though, if it turns out that that was real, and I think that, I don't know, there's some percentage chance it is real, right? And so I'm with you. I'm not really sure what's happening here. I'm not as certain as Anna is about it, right? And so, but if it is real, and then Trump draws the line on netanyahu and we leave then great then we're not controlled by israel terrific okay now they still have massive influence they got us into the war in the first place they got us to do the first war they got us to give them hundreds of billions of dollars now they're looking to merge our militaries which is insanity right so but okay apparently it's not a hundred percent but if we go back in it is a hundred percent and so you can't argue with it you can you can call people anti-semites and try to shut down the debate but it's crystal clear what's happened and and uh But Dave, I think that like Israel has lost its mind, right?

42:02Netanyahu and all those guys. And, you know, I don't, we can get into the culture of the population if we want. That's a separate topic. But the government has definitively lost its mind because here's an easy peace deal that America can make. And there's two possibilities for Israel here. One is that we take Dave Smith's advice, which I couldn't agree more with. And in fact, I'll just, I think that there is a deal to be made. I disagree with Jeffrey Sachs just a tiny bit. If I was in charge to go to the Iranians, go, hey, listen, you don't really care about the highly enriched uranium. We were just doing that to make sure we don't attack you, right?

42:37I get that it was for leverage. I know that there's a fatwa, and I know that you don't have a missile that could deliver it anyway. OK, so – and you've already agreed under the Obama deal and under two different peace offers that you let us take out the highly enriched uranium. And you get some sort of energy program verified by international monitors. You open up the Strait of Hormuz. We lift a blockade and we're done. We're done. There's no other interest at all. They're ballistic missiles. Countries are allowed to have ballistic missiles and their ballistic missiles can't reach us. So why do we care about their ballistic missiles?

43:09That's Israel's issue. Proxies, other countries are allowed to have allies. We're going to tell you how to run your foreign policy. No, you must have Israel run your foreign policy. That isn't American interest at all. That's their business, not our business. And then at that point, if Israel wants to keep fighting Iran and Lebanon, go ahead. that's not our problem that's your problem no you have to give me your military no we don't you have to give me all your money no we don't you have to fight all my enemies for me no we don't you have to make me a regional and as you know who said potentially a global superpower we have to make papa new guinea a global superpower that's somehow an american interest no no that's absurd we don't have any of those interests so in that scenario then israel's screwed because iran has a lot of drones and a lot of missiles and israel now realizes oh we might have messed with the bear here right so that's scenario number one scenario number two is they drag us into the war hey they won they got an american military and american soldiers to fight their war for them no but then gas is going to go up by a dollar and two dollars and inflation is going to be horrific and the markets are going to crash the markets are driven by lunatics at this point i can't believe it has and already crashed, but it's inevitable.

44:26And then no matter how much propaganda mainstream media and the government does, and no matter how much they ban us from all the different Western countries, it's not going to work. The dam is going to break. The dam's in the middle of breaking as we speak. But if they cause that kind of economic catastrophe here in America, Israel will be more hated than Jeffrey Dahmer. Israel will be the most hated thing in America. And so how does that help Israel? So these lunatics have set up a lose-lose for both themselves and America and the world. So why are we listening to the lunatics? All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is CrowdHealth.

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46:22Yeah. No, that is a valid question. You know, I wanted to kind of ask you about, because, well, because it's me and you having this conversation and you've kind of made a big point over the last few years to, I don't know how to exactly say it, to kind of plant your flag in the idea that you're in the let's have conversations across the aisle camp uh and i'm not talking about you know with politicians like literally across the aisle i mean with people and people who are differences in opinions you're more of a left-wing guy and you have a lot of conversations with people like me or tucker people who are more right-wing guys um And this inevitably gets a lot of backlash.

47:10There's been, I know there's been left-wingers who have criticized you for taking this approach. And I'm sure I will get some criticism for having you on my show. And you know what I mean? Like it's kind of inevitable that you'll get some criticism for having this conversation with me and I'll get some criticism for having this conversation with you. And I've always found myself, I mean, I've always just been firmly in agreement with you on this. It seems almost absurd to me. It almost becomes a thing where I'm even not sure what people's objection is. But there is this weird dynamic where people will say, oh, so now, Dave, you're allying with the left.

47:51And I'm kind of like, well, but what even do you mean? Like, what do you like? Yes, I'm having a conversation. It's the same thing people do on all sides, by the way. Like when I have Nick Fuentes on, they're like, oh, so you're palling around with Nick Fuentes. You're legitimizing Nick Fuentes. You're platforming. And you're like, dude, just say the actual thing so you sound as ridiculous as you do. I'm talking to him. That's what you're upset about. I'm having a conversation with somebody. Like what? And it does. I don't know. I just find this to be a very bizarre dynamic. and I always, I've just always, since I've been into politics, I've always had this thing where it's like, if you're ever going down a path where your enemy is your neighbor, you're going down the wrong path.

48:38That is just not correct. And it's not that your neighbor maybe doesn't have his problems or have a different way of living life than you do, but that, and that is true. There certainly are a lot of that. And you may have some bad neighbors. I'm not saying your neighbors are all great but like yeah in the united states of america you're not being oppressed by your neighbor you're really not like that just is not the for there are powerful interests who have rigged this entire economy and our entire government policy against the american people on behalf of a very small group of powerful people and those are your enemies and if they're not you're not doing political commentary right like you're just you're not helping yeah so So let me break that one down and show you that I'm sorry, but the other side is empirically incorrect.

49:26OK, so why is it a matter of fact? Well, first of all, they say, well, you shouldn't talk to anyone you don't fully agree with. Why? What a weird thing to say. But do you know anyone that you agree with 100 percent? And are we supposed to, like, ban people from having any conversations in personal life and public life? unless they agree ahead of time to agree 100 percent i mean by definition that's a mental standard no one can defend that standard and so and in fact that standard was applied to us of course well even before i started talking to charlie kirk and and tucker carlson etc uh they said well you disagree with us on transports uh on whether crime went upward or not in the major cities between 2019 and 2023.

50:16I'm like, so what? You disagree with me on a bunch of other things. And so why do I have to agree with you? Why don't you have to agree with me? Oh, okay. So, and by the way, did we ever vote on it? Did the left or Democrats ever vote on those two issues or any of these issues? No, we never voted on it. You just declared yourself king and you must agree with me and so by definition that's a uh an argument that is not correct because anyone can claim no you have to agree with me and now we're in a deadlock we're in a stalemate so intellectually it makes no sense at all number two is am i asking you to marry the guy am i asking you to vote for the guy right am i asking you to make candace someone's the senator from Missouri?

51:05Am I saying that, you know, from now on, you could only go fishing with Sean Ryan? No, I'm just asking you to have a conversation with the guy. Number three, if you're voting on an issue, so now it gets relevant with Tom Massey and Marjorie Taylor Greene, because they were in Congress, right? If you say to someone coming over to your side on the left, we've always been anti-war, right? And they come over and say, hey, I'd like to vote with you on anti-war or cutting off Israel's funding or being against the genocide and you say no to that, I'm not allowed to use the R word anymore, but that's what you are.

51:40Okay. Like, no, I don't want your vote agreeing with me is perhaps the least intelligent thing that you could ever do in politics. And it's defy sense. I defy anyone to have that make sense. Right. So, and then finally, look on the super important and hard issues, whether it's ending a war, ending a genocide, or getting money out of politics, you literally cannot win without both sides, all sides coming together. So in order to get money out of politics, you need an amendment. That means you need three quarters of the states to ratify it. There are too many blue states and there are too many red states.

52:18So if you're a right winger thinking, oh, I'll get money out of politics without any of those do-gooder liberals, I don't need them. You're totally wrong. You do need us. There's too many blue states. You can't get an amendment passed right same thing for the left i mean my god i've been fighting uh for that constitutional amendment through wolf pack for the last 15 years right and my biggest opponents are establishment democrats they used to be my biggest opponents used to be the coke brothers american enterprise institute neocons etc right then pelosi came along and she told all of the state legislators you are not to work with wolf pack the convention is dangerous change changes bad.

52:58And then she had all these people parroting, change is bad, change is bad, don't do a convention, right? So the reality, and they're like, and I ask those guys every time, I'm like, okay, so you're going to get an amendment without working with the right wing. Go ahead, tell me how you're going to get 38 states. There is no way to get 38 states without the right and the left working together. So anyone who's trying to do that is trying to divide us. They might not know it consciously, but they're helping the propaganda of traditional media. Who divided us in the first place? Traditional media did, right?

53:31So, but wait a minute, why am I on the left and you're on the right if we agree on, let's say, make up a number, 40 % of issues? So what is, why do we have to hate each other? Why do we have to fight? Why don't we agree on the issues that we agree on and disagree on the issues we disagree on. I mean, I see things like this that are so obvious and then I get attacked for it. Really? That's the hill you want to die on? And Dave, I'm super proud that, you know, like you said, I planted my flag on that. And if I'm known as the guy who's pushing for unity so we could end the corruption and we could end the wars, I mean, yeah, please take, you know, whoever's on the left attacking me for that, attack me more.

54:15Tell everyone that I'm for unity and making sure that we unify enough to get our country back. Well, to me, it seems that obviously a lot of this stuff is within reason and just applying common sense. But certainly if there was some, I don't know, whatever, if there was a Maoist authoritarian, from my perspective, just really horrible politics, but we agreed on one small issue, then like, yeah, I'm probably not going to coalition with that person over a small issue. Like if we agreed on some like zoning law in a local ordinance or something like that, but he's like a Maoist, probably okay. I'll think I'm not going to want to, but like, what it comes down to is how important is the issue that we're talking about here?

55:04You know, like to me that has, so like even just now, when you were talking about money and politics, I think me and you have a slightly different view or maybe a pretty drastically different view on that. And that would be a really interesting conversation. Like we could do another podcast and do we could talk for a whole hour about that topic. But like this podcast is kind of in my mind about us coalitioning on this current war that's going on. And the reason why I'm more interested to talk about that with you right now is because like, my God, man, there's a war on right now when the global economy hangs in the balance and like thousands of people have been killed.

55:38Like we killed like 200 little girls on the first day of this strike. It's being done with our money and our name and like i don't know i i judge that that's the most important thing right now and i've i know when i was on the young turks i think i made the comparison to uh you know like if we were if it was 1845 and we were both abolitionists and then we just started arguing about tax policy the whole time it's like my god man there's human beings are enslaved right now like it's incumbent on you to put those differences aside and work with and then the other thing which look maybe this is just a simple just the way I am look I don't know what to say if I was this is from my perspective but I think if I was watching an episode of the young Turks in 2017 or 2018 and then I watched an episode of like um I don't know like Stephen Crowder's show or something I don't know I might have agreed more with some of the stuff he was saying than the stuff you guys we're saying.

56:35But today, if I watch, you know, like if I'm watching like Bannon and Jack Posebiak pretending there's a deal and celebrating how Donald Trump just got a historic win when it's just so obviously not true. It's just like sitting here watching people lie to me in the dumbest possible way. And then I turn on an episode of the Young Turks and I'm like, goddamn, Jank and Anna are nailing it. So like, and by the way, from my perspective, I haven't changed it all during this time you know like I mean maybe a little bit around the edges but I'm pretty much still agree with the same stuff so sorry like don't come at me for that it's not my fault that these guys are lying to you and these guys are telling the truth but that's kind of where we're at right now and at least to me I go look since at least since October 7th you know the now there's certain guys who in my opinion have always just been phenomenal who are left-wingers I mean Jeremy Scahill and Glenn Greenwald and guys like this.

57:30I think I've just been phenomenal reporters and Ryan Grimm is a phenomenal reporter. But if I'm listening to crystal ball or Cenk Uygur or anyone over the last two and a half years talking about foreign policy, I think they're largely getting it right. And, and so what, what is the expectation here that I'm not supposed to like interact with the people who are right about the most important thing right now. And for everyone else, I think it's, you know, left and right are useful terms and there are meaningful differences between my worldview and yours because of our different perspectives. But it's also like, you can't, when you're talking about people, they're not defined by their politics, dude.

58:08Issues are much more important than whatever you think your, you know, worldview is. What actually matters is that there's kids dying right now in our name and it's destroying our country. That's what matters. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Superpower. I love this company and thrilled that they're on board as a sponsor. I don't know about you, but I feel a lot of the times, like when I go to the doctors, they essentially don't do anything. I don't know. I mean, they give you a basic physical, but they don't really find out what's going on with your health.

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59:51You actually know how you're doing, how you're getting healthy and what your body specifically needs. So really cool company. It's really interesting. Definitely check them out. Head over to superpower.com and use the promo code problem at checkout and you'll get$20 off your membership. You can detect early signs of over a thousand different conditions. This is a really cool opportunity. If you care about your health, this is the way to level up superpower.com promo code problem for$20 off your membership. All right, let's get back into the show. So Dave, I didn't know that we disagreed on money and politics.

1:00:23So I have to leave immediately. We don't have a hundred percent agreement. So we have to shut down the entire conversation. Yeah, there you go. Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. Well, we'll get, you know what, that, that would actually be a really interesting subject for us to talk about. Cause it's not exactly that I disagree with you. It's more that my perspective is that when you have a government that's so powerful, it's going to be impossible to ensure that it's not rigged by someone that That doesn't mean I'd be against some ideas that could maybe make it less easy to rig. But when Washington, D.C.

1:00:52moves$7 trillion every year, you know, you find the example I always give is like, so Hillary Clinton, you know, it's illegal for Saudi Arabia to give money to the Hillary Clinton campaign. So they give her foundation$100 million, you know, like so like no matter how you're going to write the the point is that Saudi Arabia is going to find a way to gain favor with whoever the next commander in chief. is. And now look at all these things they're doing with, with Donald Trump. It's like, I mean, I'm probably some of that is illegal, but at the same time, I just mean, I think it's almost like, it's like the Lord Atkin, uh, ultimate, uh, absolute power corrupts.

1:01:27Absolutely. And it's like, if you don't lower the level of power, you're not going to be able to lower the level of corruption. If that makes sense. Yeah. So look, I can't wait to have that debate with you on another day. And, uh, yeah, yeah. We don't have enough time to, but, but I know that you You can't criticize the Clinton Foundation because you haven't been there. I have not been. I have not been to the Clinton Foundation. Let me just do one more. And then, you know what? I'm sorry. I shouldn't have gotten into that because we don't have time to get into a whole new topic. But I'll give you the last word on this.

1:01:58But I did want to say, because there has been, at least I've seen this dynamic. I talked about this last time I was on Breaking Points. And I'm kind of interested to get your reaction to this. because, you know, when I, I mean, part of it, I got in some arguments with like Kyle Kalinsky and Mehdi Hassan over this. And these are two people who I, like, look, I probably on foreign policy have large areas of agreement with both of them. But I just felt like, and this is, I think, kind of goes to the spirit of what you're talking about. There was this moment where after this war, and look, it probably should have happened earlier.

1:02:31It should have happened last summer when I turned on them. But of the whole podcaster coalition, where I'm weirdly a hybrid, like, because I do stand up, but I'm also more of a straight political commentator, but I'm friends with a lot of people in this world. But there came a moment when like all of these guys, many of whom helped get Trump elected from Tucker to Rogan to Theo Vaughn to Tim Dillon to Andrew Schultz to, you know, I'm missing some names in there, but a whole bunch of them essentially all turned on Donald Trump over the war, you know, like to different degrees. and then I would watch as a group of left-wingers all thought that the moment there was to go told you so haha you're an idiot you voted for the guy and like and what I said back to them when I was arguing with Medi on it was I was like hey Medi I got anti-war street Fred if nothing else like I've been anti-war for 20 years I've been I always talked about it when I was going on Rogan I would talk about Yemen all the time this became a running joke because I just kept talking about Yemen and people like no one cares about this it wasn't like Gaza where all the cool kids wanted to talk about it but it was a genocide all the same and so I kept bringing it up and kept talking about it and and when Gaza came and the whole anti-war left came back I never thought for one second for my response to be well you guys voted for Obama and Biden and therefore look at all the dead people that are on your head it's just at a point you're like guys what are we trying to do here is this about patting yourself on the back or this is about maybe we got a shot of like preventing the next genocide or ending the kind of current ongoing one like isn't if you care about the issue when i saw all the young leftists getting anti-war again on gaza i was just like oh let's go yes this is great wouldn't you be glad that all of trump's people are turning on him again this is another one that's indisputable so for two reasons so when i first started talking to charlie kirk that you know the world collapsed in on us and i remember the reaction yeah yeah and you know most of the rest of the left attacked us uh and what happened with charlie and tucker and the rest of them oh right charlie started becoming more opposed to israel uh before he he was killed right and so why was he starting to become more opposed to israel because he was talking to other people he was getting other uh you know ideas that he wasn't exposed to before and by the way his audience mainly drove that and they should uh they get the lion's share of the credit by far right and then tucker turned against israel and and their wars and their genocide and then megan did and then peers did and and they all did so we had of course yeah yeah and if we hadn't done that and we hadn't talked to them, you know, would that have happened?

1:05:22Maybe, but maybe not. And so that's what, look, especially if you're on the right side of an issue, why wouldn't you talk to other people and try to convince them of it? That point is so irrational. It boggles the mind that they keep saying that. And in the beginning, look, there's two different camps. There's a lot of folks who just got wrapped up in the tribalism and they got into the cycle of hatred and you have to hate MAGA and you have to hate the Republicans. You have to hate the other side. But to your point earlier, Dave, I mean, I said this in my Jubilee episode. I say it all the time on The Young Turks.

1:05:55The guy on your left didn't rig the system. The guy on your right didn't rig the system. By the way, the guy that below you also didn't rig the system. Look up, look up, look up. The people in power with all the money and the power, they're the ones who are rigging the system. And I'm going to shock every cable news actor here. The wealthy and the powerful would like to keep their wealth and power? I know that's a foreign concept to them. They're like, yes. And do they sometimes conspire in terms of giving campaign contributions as an industry or a government or people who support a government to get their way so that they retain and add to their wealth and power?

1:06:32Of course, of course, you'd have to be a lunatic to think that they don't. They're like, oh, no, no, no, we're not going to protect our wealth and power. Just take it from us, right? No. And so by having those conversations, I hope, I believe that we began to move the needle, right? And move a public opinion. If we hadn't engaged in that, it would be a terrible mistake. Now, the second point is, guys, when someone says yes, take yes for an answer. Take the win. What is wrong with you? I mean, brother Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield out in Vermont and Bernie Sanders, right? That's like your prototypical anti-war left, leftover from Woodstock, right?

1:07:15Those guys have been holding down the anti-war fort for longer than we've been alive, Dave. And so, and so when, and when, by the way, and how did they react when the cavalry arrived and some of the right wings started to be vocally against the war and the genocide? They were thrilled. I've talked to Ben Cohen. He's like, yes, finally, the right wing is on our side. That's how a person reacts when they care about the issues, when they care about the policies and the effects in the real world, when they are not into the partisan games and the tribalism. And do I want my audience to be larger than your audience?

1:07:54And yes, there was a portion there, not all of them, but a portion who were like, oh, it's a good opportunity to attack someone on our side to take their audience and say, aha, he's a heretic. He's talking to the witches. So he's a witch. Let's do a witch hunt. Right. And who was right and who was wrong? Who, you know, and they sat in their caves and didn't do anything. And we got went out there and you did, Dave, I did. And so many others did who came out and said, no, no, no, no, no. Let's actually find a way to find common ground here. And to your point about how important these issues are, and I'll finish by coming all the way back to Britain in a second so I'm on British media today because of the ban and they you know I got into a little bit of an argument with the host on LBC whatever that thing is and she's like well you said that this is one of the most important genocides of our lifetimes but how about the Holocaust I was like I wasn't around in the Holocaust in fact I always thought when I was a kid I wonder what I would have been done in the during the Holocaust?

1:08:56Would I have fought like hell to make sure it didn't happen? Or would I have been quiet? You know, you don't know until you're tested. Well, now we know I would not have been quiet. Right. And they would have told me, oh, you're fighting the Holocaust in the wrong ways. You've offended the Germans too much in the way that you fought the Holocaust. Right. So but that wasn't in our lifetimes. Then she brought up Rwanda. And I'm like, wait, is your main argument that this genocide is not quite as bad as Rwanda or Yemen? and hence it's okay like that's the worst argument in the world right and so and we didn't pay for rwanda we halfway paid for yemen through the saudis right so like and you were right to be livid about yemen and i was livid about yemen well also and we conducted it with them is the is the big one as well i mean our navy was doing the blockading and our but but yes to your point Yes.

1:09:47I mean, look, again, if you want to get into, again, look, you could make an argument that Obama starting the civil war in Syria or toppling Gaddafi in Yemen or something. Like if you want to get into arguments about what was the bigger like catastrophe for humanitarians, it is kind of debatable. I think the thing that kind of like changes Gaza particularly is and then this just does change the morality of it, much like with the Holocaust, with Hitler and the Jews, is that those were his citizens, you know, and even though they don't call them, they don't call the people of Gaza Israeli citizens.

1:10:23when they're a captive people you've had them since 1967 those are your people whether you claim them or not in the same way that the slaves were you know george washington's responsibility whether he claims them or not it's you and so there is something particular about like a captive people that cannot leave because you make them not allowed to leave and then just destroying their civilization while you hold it to me there is a moral difference to that um yes to your to your point once you've gotten down to the point of where you're comparing this to other you know humanitarian catastrophes it's like okay fine so they're all very very bad that let's be against all of them and and like i said we didn't pay for rwanda but i'll end on right right uh so we're being forced like we have to go get a second job to pay for israel's wars and genocide it's insanity Right.

1:11:17So now, Dave, I'll end on this. So, you know, if in 1942, people were like, no, you shouldn't have an alliance against the Holocaust because we've got a disagreement on taxes or Medicare or something. We'd be like, yeah, no, those are important. Those are really important. But we're going to get to them after we end the Holocaust. Right. So some things are more important than other things. So if you come and say, hey, let's do an alliance against this war so that we don't kill 200 more little girls in Iran, so we don't waste$8 trillion more on needless wars in the Middle East, so we don't have 76 ,000 at a bare minimum slaughtered in places like Gaza.

1:11:58Yeah, that's more important. And that's a thing that we've got to tackle first. Doesn't mean other issues aren't important and that we're not going to tackle them. But but even more important than that. And what could possibly be more important than war and genocide is our own sovereignty. because if we're not making the decisions and we're not in charge and it's not a democracy, then it doesn't really matter, right? Because all of our opinions are useless. No one in power is listening to them. So that brings us back to the ban. So they say that I criticize Israel and hence we're banned. Now, you know, historically, the British Empire, the gravest offense was insulting the king.

1:12:38If you insulted the king off with your head, right? Well, now I can insult the king. I can insult the British government. I can insult the American government, any other government I want. I just can't insult Israel. So that means Israel is the new king. So I didn't make that declaration through their actions. The United Kingdom did. So we have them funding 94 % of Congress here being the top lifetime donor to Trump, Biden, and almost every one of our leaders. We have them deciding to ban people from Britain based on insulting Israel. So don't tell me that they don't exercise control. I was just the recipient of that control.

1:13:17I can no longer go to Scotland or London or Bath or anywhere in the United Kingdom because Israel won't allow it. So until you get your freedom back, until you get your sovereignty back, and we go back to Western civilization and not being run by a country the size of Papua New Guinea, then all the other issues are irrelevant because our debates are pointless. No one cares who wins that debate because we're not in charge. Neither side is in charge. The people with all the money are in charge that are the donor class. So we have to defeat that first before we do anything else. Yep. I'm with you on that, man.

1:13:59Cenk, I know you're busy, man. I really appreciate you taking the time out and coming on the show. And of course, everyone knows the Young Turks. They're all over YouTube and every other platform. But anything specific you want to plug where people can find more of your stuff? Yeah, thanks, Dave. So thanks for having the conversation. I love talking to you. And I love smart people. So, right? Likewise. Yeah. So, okay. Two things, guys. Number one, we have a 24-hour channel. And not everybody knows that. That's on Roku, Samsung, YouTube TV, now on Amazon Prime. So whichever platform you're on, just type in TYT, as in The Young Turks, and we'll pop up and watch all of our programming.

1:14:38It's a variety. It's interesting. Dave's on from time to time. There's a guest host on Young Turks. And then the other thing is we're live 6 to 8 p.m. every day. And that's on YouTube, but also on every other platform that we can get on. So 6 o 'clock Eastern, live on the Young Turks, me and Anna Kasparian, and sometimes Dave and sometimes Glenn Greenwald and sometimes Ryan Grimm, etc. So we'd love to have everybody there. Thank you, Dave. Thank you, Cenk. Really appreciate it. And thank you guys for listening. Catch you next time. Peace.

1:15:19We'll see you next time.