Peace Or Socialism

30:30We need to, we need to keep the money in the economy and whatever that is going. No, what we need is lower prices. What's wrong with you people that you don't want to import beef. I just think it's a funny one 80. Oh, it is something too. Well, just imagine, I mean, and we talked about this a lot, even at the beginning when I guess we were hopeful that some positives might come out of this administration, but you know, I mean, you came into an environment where price inflation was what was destroying the economy for four years. And your prescription was tariffs. And come on, dude. Like, I don't know.

31:08Like, this is very basic shit. And it's not even like, look, even the pro-tariff argument, which is all types of flawed. But even even the pro tariff argument would be something like, yes, the downside will be higher prices, but the positive will be like manufacturing jobs in America or something like that. But higher prices are going to be part of it. And, you know, you can't you can't make it more expensive to produce something or make it more expensive to trade something in the case of tariffs without making it more expensive to consume that thing. This is like basic economic law shit. Anyway, I guess the yeah, it's just it it's quite a dynamic to watch, dude, as this all unfolds.

31:58And I do got to say, I know I'm probably repeating myself a little bit here, but I do think that, you know, as you see, there were more successes from the Democratic Socialist and the left wing insurgent types in primaries across the country. and you see that these guys have all this wind at their back because they all just opposed the Israel's genocide and the war in Iran. But I do just think like, dude, there's so much of this shit is just not going to be appealing to huge swaths of American voters. This might be playing really good in Democratic primaries right now, but they're going to have a major problem.

32:37But the only way to defeat that, like, again, what did it take to get Mom Donnie elected in New York City? Well, it took him running against a guy who had to carry the albatross of loving Benjamin Netanyahu and Israel and being the lockdown governor and killing old people and pinching girls on the ass or whatever, you know, Andrew. Yeah, being Italian. Right. And guilty of that. You know, pinching girls on the ass where you offer him Gabagol or whatever. but you know short of that Mamdani probably doesn't get elected or quite possibly doesn't get elected and in the same way it's like look dude again you want to see democratic socialists get elected in general elections meaning they get real political power meaning socialists start taking over your economy okay if you want to see a socialist win make it a socialist who was against this war running against a republican who was for it That is the best shot for a socialist to gain real political power right now in America.

33:43What do you think, Rob? I mean, just in that, if a socialist is running against somebody who's like, you know, arguing that you should take trips to Israel, or they were running against somebody who goes, yeah, of course, we're totally against that war. Who do they have a tougher battle with? Obviously, the latter, because that person takes away their moral, like, you know, standing. in this whole thing. I don't know. It seems pretty obvious to me. I thought maybe we should play the, here that there's that Bill Maher clip. I thought that was kind of interesting. It's on, on topic here. But they had a little panel discussion on Bill Maher's show the other day.

34:21He had Dana Bash on and what's his name? Peters from the New York Times. And they're sitting there. So this is kind of, there's a conversation with three kind of establishment liberals about these damn socialists who are getting to the left of them and causing all types of problems. Here's, let's play the clip. They're not running to be members of the Democratic Party. They're running, many of them anyway, as Democratic Socialists. It's a totally different political organization. And in fact, they want to take out the Democratic Party. I mean, that's their stated goal. They not only want to take out the Democratic Party, they want to take out the entire constitutional system that the Democratic Party is allowed to participate in governing.

35:04And they like communism. I proved it here a couple of weeks ago just by quoting them. They use the word a lot. They're not actually trying to hide it. Although if you ask them, they will deny. Yeah, it's so interesting. They will. But some of them, I mean, this is why El Saeed did quite well in Michigan. This is why the woman who is running against Karen Bass as mayor of L.A. is doing quite well, because they've learned how to sand down the rougher edges and they don't talk about socialism. They don't talk about seizing the means of production and stuff like that. they're getting many of them.

35:36Some of them are not quite ready for prime time, let's be clear, but a lot of them have really done a good job of selling themselves to the public as quite reasonable mainstream politicians. And that's how Angie Nixon, who beat Alexander Vindman in Florida this week. Okay, so that, explain who that is. She is a democratic socialist who raised like not even a million dollars. That's right. And he raised about$16 million. So I'm not a mathematician, but I think that's like 16 to 1. And he crushed, she crushed him. In Florida. Absolutely, in Florida. Which is a red state now. Yes, but this is, of course, the Democratic primary.

36:11It's a Democratic primary. And a lot of people will say. But she did it by, she's a Democratic socialist, but she did it by really narrowing down her message about affordability, about money, about trying to, you know, live the American dream in a way that people suffer. But again, this is a race within the Democratic Party. So when she runs in the general against the Republican for governor, she's very hard. Very hard. She's going to run against Ashley Moody, who's the sitting Republican senator. And it's I mean, I don't want to say impossible, but if there is an impossible race, that could. So what do you think?

36:47All right. So I just find it kind of interesting that they're sitting here, like trying to analyze this whole thing. They all have a very defeated tone about how these insurgents are just like these guys are coming up everywhere. We're at spending them 16 to one and they're still winning. And then they even they will admit they're like, hey, these guys aren't really winning by convincing people of their socialist platform. They're winning by what? She's talking about how it's unaffordable to live the American dream today and all of that. And it's like, right. So in other words, what they completely left out there, right, is that I don't even know this specific race.

37:19But who is her opponent? Who raised 16 million dollars? Oh, I'm sure somebody who completely supports the warfare state. Right. And so it's like it's always, you know, it's like, yeah, dude, you're you're running against people who are saying, let's waste all of these resources on mass killing campaigns. And they get to say, let's keep the resources here. How about a grocery store? You know, like as bad an idea as that may be. Obviously, there's a reason that's winning in this context. I don't know. Any thoughts, Rob? Yeah. So there's two things I pick up on. The first is in line with what you're saying.

37:59And it's interesting. There was a part of the Democratic report on why they lost the last presidential election that was edited or censored out that then later got released. I said that they were wrong because Kamala Harris was just too stupid to win. And that was the problem that they had. But they did actually have an interesting thing that basically they're viewed as the Democrats at the moment are viewed as too corrupt. And what they were getting at is that the concern, like the mainstream voters understand that the hierarchy of the Democratic Party, such as like a Nancy Pelosi, is clearly not all that interested in American affordability and American jobs.

38:35They can see the moves that the party's making and that it's not really in their interest. And so I think there's hopefully a lot of people out there that don't actually want socialism, but they're just buying into because they don't understand how much censorship and lost economic resources will get wasted and that it will make their life worse to the extent that the policies are implemented. But I do think that just in terms of who's lying the best when somebody outside of the system comes along and goes, hey, I'm actually worried about affordability. And it's that against more of the same. People are more interested in what's new and pitching affordability.

39:13So I do think you're right about even though I didn't really follow the Florida election. But I do think that that is largely the appeal of the Democratic Socialists. What the guy was talking about though Of these people aren't really Democrats And they're more here to ruin the party It's such an interesting complaint to me Because you guys have orchestrated A two party system Where other parties can't really Compete And that's kind of the way that it's structured And so it's a mess of your own creation That the Democratic Socialists don't form Their own party And it's because they can never get into a debate They can never potentially pick up you know, 30 % of the vote, they can't get on ballots.

39:53And so, you know, we've discussed on the Republican side, is it better to try and run Thomas Massey as an independent or overtake the Republican party? And clearly the easier path to victory is to try and win over the Republican party and take over the party. Cause otherwise you're up against the two party system and it's nearly impossible to get on ballots and get into debates and have people take you seriously. And so it's interesting. It's just kind of like a bitchy move where you both can construct this flawed system where most people are just voting against the other person. They're not really, you know, they're not really supporting this thing.

40:26They're just voting against something else. You box out every other opinion. And then if the other people try and come into your party, you go, well, you don't belong here. Well, then how do you possibly have a representative democracy if you're managing to censor this many people out of your, out of your structure? All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Body Brain Coffee, the brainchild of the great Louis J. Gomez. It is amazing. If you're looking for a delicious cup of coffee that naturally boosts your testosterone, you have found it. I don't know.

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41:26Gomez, who is the guy who's run the podcast network for this podcast. He's the guy who really encouraged me to start this thing. So if you love this show and you want a delicious cup of coffee that naturally boosts your testosterone, make sure to go to bodybraincoffee.com and use the promo code DAVE20. it'll get you 20 % off your entire order. I really believe in this product. I really want to help blow it up. So please do go to bodybraincoffee.com, promo code Dave20 for 20 % off. Get that new cream or two. It's delicious. All right, let's get back into the show. 100%, dude. I remember, because people used to say shit like this to be a thing to like own libertarians or something like that, where they would go, they'd go like, oh, well, you use the roads and you use the public park and you use the public library or something like that.

42:13And you're like, wait, wait, hold on. So I don't think I should be forced to pay for these things, but I am. Since I am forced, if I try to get a little bit of value out of them, now I'm a hypocrite. You know, it's kind of like a similar type thing. It's like, dude, you created this system that is not the system. Therefore, you rigged the whole thing to be in favor of two parties. So that, like you said, if anyone ever wants to win, they have to run within one of these two major parties. So, yeah, what does this mean? And also, I mean, look, they used to say the same thing about Bernie Sanders because he was like an independent socialist for many years and then ran as a Democrat.

42:48Maybe you're not really a Democrat. You'd be like, dude, if all the arguments against Bernie Sanders, this is the weakest, most pathetic one. Like he's making his arguments. If your voters like him more, they can vote for him. If he's not a Democrat, then I guess they'll vote for you because they like you more. What does that? What does this mean? But, you know, there's also something else, you know, which I think the Democratic socialists can kind of do here. This was the point that I was trying to make to Cenk a couple weeks ago that I think maybe got lost, partially because we were talking about his nephew and things get emotional when you're talking about family, understandably.

43:25But, you know, I remember when Ron Paul was running for president, they used to say that to him sometimes. In fact, there was a great moment where one of the Fox News guys can't remember his name, the blackball dude. He asks him, he goes, he goes, well, hey, like you're opposed to the war in Iraq at the time. And he goes, so why are you running for the Republican nomination? You know, like you're not really a Republican. You're like the whole party is for the war. So why are you running? And then he was like, well, he goes, if you think about it, like every everything I've ever said or written in every vote I've ever casted has been completely wrong.

44:01in line with the constitution. I'm the most conservative member up here, you know? And like, in some ways, the, the democratic socialists can kind of do that to the liberals and go, what are you talking about? Like, I'm the, we're for democracy, Democrats, the democratic party, like, okay, what is, you know, what did, what did the communists think about democracy? They were big fans of it. Right. I mean, it's like, I don't know there in some ways it's like, yeah, your whole platform is, we'll give you some free shit. And mine is, we'll give you some more free shit. Why doesn't, why doesn't that belong?

44:37Where's the line? You know, I saw so many of them, you know, even like even Bill Maher at a point in this show, he goes, he's like, look, I'm with him on universal healthcare and all this. Oh, I saw, I saw our buddy who I love to death, but I saw Shane Gillis saying on Rogan's podcast the other week, it's like, nah, dude, like communism sucks, but healthcare, free healthcare, that's not communism. That's cool. And it's like, well, okay. I mean, look, dude, yes, it certainly is true that just because you have socialist healthcare, that doesn't mean you're going to be a full communist country. So, okay, that is true.

45:15There's lots of countries with universal healthcare that aren't full-fledged communist countries, right? So that is true. You could have a healthcare system that's run by the state and not have everything else be run by the state. However, universal health care is a bad idea for the exact same reason that communism is a bad idea. Like, yes, it'd be much worse to have the state run everything than to just have the state run health care. But having state run health care is bad for the same reason that having state run everything is bad. And, you know, These guys, they all, I don't know, Rob, I mean, they all just like, they sit there and they go, well, look, we don't have universal health care and we have, our system, whatever, they'll say things, what do they say, Rob?

46:07And we get worse results, right? We don't have universal health care and we pay more for medical care than other countries who do have universal health care. And it's like, and we're sicker, you know, but all of that is like, this is how leftists argue. None of it is even linear. It doesn't even follow. It's like, first of all, we're not sicker because of our health insurance system. That is not what's making people in this country sick. People are sick because of what they're eating, what they're ingesting, the toxins around them, like all types of different reasons. But like the major ones are like over processed food, smoking, drinking, drug use.

46:46Like those are like the major things and all types of lifestyle things. So like the fact that we're sicker isn't necessarily a result of our health insurance system. It's much more a result of our agricultural policy, of our big pharma policy, right? Like a whole bunch of different things. And then paying more for a minute. It's like, OK, fine. But. Dude, go talk to people in countries where there's universal health care. They have all the same type of problems that like they have the exact same problems with health care that Mao's China had with food. But it's because Mao collectivized the means of production of farming, you know, or he collectivized the farms themselves.

47:32Right. And you're just collectivizing the means of production of health care during the exact same problem. Shortages, long wait times, a long way. Go go talk to talk to somebody from Canada who needed ankle surgery. You know, like there's talking about the wait times they have for normal doctor visits. By the way, our system sucks. But yes, actually, socialized health care is bad for the same reason that socialism is wrong. anyway the point is once you concede that then why shouldn't the democratic socialist challenge you to be consistent on everything else yep i think uh both donald trump and uh the uh democrats have that problem that they're uh they they're essentially socialists so you just get someone who wants to do more of the socialist thing and they're new and fresh and pitching it as i actually care about you unlike these other corrupt individuals and i'm gonna get into the steel system and steel on your behalf and make sure that you're represented and that you can live a normal life.

48:31And you're at least thinking, well, this is new and different. Maybe this guy's actually being honest and can pull it off. Yeah. Well, right. Cause you're not, you're not actually having an eye, uh, uh, you're not having like a philosophical or political debate about the value of socialism, uh, and whether or not it works because both the Republicans and Democrats have implemented it and Trump spent has spent more than anyone. And he's engaged in the worst socialist thing, which is a war. We're all paying for that. No, that's exactly right, dude. And, and then it becomes down, it comes down to a thing where it's like, well, at least this guy's saying he's going to do some socialism for me, you know, instead of just doing socialism for weapons companies in Israel, at least he's going to do some for, for us, um, which you could understand where that's a, that's a preferable, uh, socialism to a lot of people.

49:19Um, okay, let's, let's do, I did want to play a little bit, just this, this Ben Shapiro video. Now I know we did, I did two shows last week on the, uh, the debate between Andrew Wilson and Candace Owens. And so I'm not even really trying to re litigate any of that here. I'm more just interested in Ben Shapiro's take and how, how funny I find this debate. Um, you know, my, uh, my, my interest in all of this, I guess is, is more, um, it's more kind of directional about like where, where the kind of movement is going and where the audience is. And with the stuff I was saying before about this administration collapsing and 2008, 28, excuse me, being a big opportunity.

50:04But so I thought this was just interesting. Look, obviously, it was a topic that was hard not to talk about because it was like one of these real internet breaking moments. And of course, you know, So it's the entire Internet was kind of talking about it for a bit. But so here was Ben Shapiro weighing in. Now, I thought this I don't know why. Partly, I guess, Rob, maybe because I've done a lot of big debates and I have a big debate that's potentially coming up here tomorrow that I was thinking about this. I just thought this was fascinating to watch Ben Shapiro actually come out with this take.

50:41Here it is. Let's let's watch. lots of people watched it which is the reason we're commenting on it because again people are now treating matters of truth as matters of entertainment and this is the bigger message here is that when a public begins to treat matters of baseline truth as matters of pure entertainment of pure just distraction what you end up with is the worst form of political debate and the worst form of human behavior truly it's bad bad stuff this thing has 1.5 million views on Patrick Betts. So, Rob, I mean, I, you know, there is this thing. I found this a bunch, Rob, when debating Israel supporters.

51:24There is a lot of, hmm, how do I put this? Perhaps the term would be chutzpah, Rob, like that you just kind of can't believe you're hearing this from the person you're hearing it from. Yeah, I remember one time I was, I was debating Jonathan, what's his name? I want to say Greenblatt, but I think I'm confusing him with the ADL guy. The guy who was the IDF spokesman. So he's an IDF spokesman. He's debating me on Pierce Morgan. It's a thick Israeli accent, you know, and I said something. I forget exactly what I said, but he goes, now that you go too far. You go too far now. He said, what you said before, this I can respect.

52:03What you say now, I don't respect this. and there was just some point he said it to me and I went I went sir you're the spokesman for a terrorist organization no one cares what you respect you know but like there is a thing it's kind of like our dear buddy gnome the comedy seller always loves to do this right where he goes how about we do this I'll uh I'll sit in the position of judge and you will appear before me and I will judge and you're like no actually we'll just be two dudes who are talking is in fact what we're going to do here. There is a for Ben Shapiro of all people, like we're just supposed to forget who this motherfucker is, how he rose to fame and made millions of dollars.

52:46Dude, you debate 19 year olds over whether their gender conforms with their identity. You're talking about how this was a spectacle. This was a stupid debate that got a lot of eyeballs on it, but it wasn't like a real serious topic or something like that. I Rob, This is unbelievable. These guys, dude, they will. There is I don't know if you've ever seen any of like some of the stuff the Daily Wire will do, but it's slop that like me and you never we we never have a segment on our show where we'll just be like, let's cover the Oscars or let's cover this. He debates children on the dumbest topics ever and yet is somehow looking down at this as being just like, oh, beyond the realm of dignified debate or something like that.

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54:49Our listeners can get up to 25 % off their entire order. Just head over to cowboycolostrum.com slash Dave and use the promo code Dave at checkout. That's 25 % off when you use the promo code Dave at cowboycolostrum.com slash Dave. All right, let's get back into the show. I'll reserve more of my comments for the end, but just the first card that he's laying down, which is very disingenuous, is I don't believe that Andrew Wilson went in with the intention of just creating entertainment. And so this kind of feels like both censorship and cope to reframe what took place. Yeah. Yeah. Well, here, let's keep playing it.

55:29The channel PBD moderated this by which we really mean that if you watch the thing, he basically sat in the center and looked as though he wanted to be anywhere else except in the middle of this mess. 4.3 million views on Kansas's channel. Dude, PBD was there because he wanted to be there. The idea that PBD just looked like he really didn't want to be there. Really? Because he looked to me like a guy who's worth$900 million who flew on his private plane to go there and moderate the debate and could have been anywhere else that he wanted to be. That's what I saw. By the way, I also think PBD did an excellent job.

56:04I did not say this, I think. And I think I actually meant to, I kicked myself later in the day for not saying it on our recap episode, but PBD did an excellent job. You know, when people go, Oh, the moderator just sat there and didn't say anything. Yeah. That's what you're supposed to do. That's what good moderation is that ideally the moderator shouldn't be talking like ideally the people should be debating. And then the moderator should only jump into like, if someone's interrupting or refusing to answer a question, or there's some type of appeal to a fact checker. I thought Pat did a very good job.

56:34This is anyway, this is all just just silly to say. But anyway, yes. No, the numbers you're reading off. That's why Pat wanted to be there. That's that's the business. All right, let's keep going. Hughes on Kansas's channel and another half million or so on Wilson. So six point five million views on YouTube alone in the first couple of days here. And naturally, everyone who watched it came out with precisely the opinion they had before. Candace's followers are saying that she demolished Wilson and PBD's commenters pointed out how he really couldn't moderate because it was just a mess. And Andrew Wilson's fans are saying that he wrecked her.

57:11And both sides are now running clips claiming that their respective side won. None of this is useful. None of this. And what's more, there is a moral problem here. When you debate for money over the matter. Pause it for a second. Pause it for a second. It's like. All right. So first of all, like that doesn't really seem to be true. I mean, whatever, but it's not as if, look, I think me and you represent two people who, it's not like we came into this with a clear cut side and then we're just like, yo, we're on that side. There were a lot of people who just watched the debate and had an opinion about the debate.

57:44Now, what is the, look, the general consensus is that Candace won the debate. He doesn't want to say that because that, of course, really looks bad for the point that he's trying to make. But I got to say, you know, Rob, OK, here's a little something I'll think just, you know, from my own perspective now, I admit maybe this is a little bit egotistical, but also I do, you know, I live life in my from my perspective. you know another debate that also got roughly 6.5 million views on YouTube in the first few days was my debate with Douglas Murray the debate was not about a conspiracy theory Rob the debate was about a war that was currently going on there were two wars that were currently going on it it was a debate where I did nothing but make substantive points and then by the way after the debate Rob it was an overwhelming consensus that I won the debate but Ben Shapiro doesn't look at that and go, oh, hey, well, look, we had all of the things here.

58:42We had a substantive debate and we had a clear consensus and a whole lot of people changed their minds based off the debate. Like he just they my point is that they lay out these kind of like criteria that even if you passed it, they would never admit that like, oh, OK, well, that was a legit debate and you got a legit win and the audience agreed with it. It doesn't matter how decisive it is. There will always be a thing. With the Douglas Murray one, it was, oh, the problem is I'm a comedian. I'm not an expert. With the Candace Owens one, the problem is that Pat didn't moderate well enough or whatever.

59:14The fact is that this is a legitimate topic to debate. They had a big public debate over it. Ben Shapiro has had far more ridiculous debates over the years. And in fact, you know, when it comes down to it, if you search debates of Ben Shapiro versus Israel supporting liberal on something, you'll find a million examples. If you search Ben Shapiro debating leftist child, you'll find limitless examples. If you find Ben Shapiro debating Israel, you can't find one. Ben Shapiro debating the Iran war. Ben Shapiro debating the Iraq war. Ben Shapiro debating the war in Syria. Those don't exist because he won't come out and actually debate any of this stuff.

59:56So, I mean, it's just, there's really like the level of chutzpah, the level of nerve for you to come out when you're known for debating 19 year olds about trans nonsense to start talking about what debates are useful and are not like you branded yourself as the political debate guy. And in the moment of political debates, you've ducked everyone. So, I don't know. This shit drives me crazy. Yeah, let's play. Let's play the last little bit and then make a response. a person who clearly murdered somebody, murdered somebody, and whether the person who is claiming that the true murderer might in fact be his wife, might in fact be his best friends, might in fact be people who surround him, what you are doing is granting the imprimatur of decency to a debate that is indecent at its heart.

1:00:46But a 19-year-old trans kid or an abortionist, it's not, are you granting them decency? Well, like, what does it mean? You debate something, you're granting it decency? Is that actually Ben Shapiro's position here? Has every pro-lifer been granting abortion decency when they've debated it? I think you have to debate something if you find it to be indecent also. The other thing there, Rob, is that it's like, of course, this isn't, he's presenting this in a way which is bullshit. I mean, he's saying, oh, you can't you can't have the debate because you're defending a killer. Well, no, we're debating about who the killer is, right?

1:01:29You're not defending the killer. And then also, Candace didn't accuse Erica of murder. That's not true. And like, I don't know, I guess just essentially what it comes down to, what Ben Shapiro is saying, is that what? You can't debate whether high-profile political assassinations could be conspiracy-related. Why? because the state is always so right oh you can't look at people close to the victim that's what police do the vast majority of murders are committed by someone close to the victim um like so again it's just all bravado with actually no substance there ironically as he complains about the debate having no substance this is uh yeah this is just purely a censorship play with him as trust me as the voice of authority if you think that someone has a view that is completely morally reprehensible.

1:02:21Well, if you actually believe that, then why not debate them and showcase that they have a morally reprehensible view? You know what you do when you can't actually defend your position, you're just trying to push the other one down, is go, I can't even engage with that, which is what we had through all of COVID, was you just censor the point of views that you can't actually win a debate with and just go, well, these people are putting public health in danger. Oh, this is just so morally reprehensible. We can't even talk to them. You mean you think you might lose a debate if you had a conversation with them?

1:02:53Sounds to me like you don't really believe in your perspective and you're lying to me. Yep. And look, again, this is really the heart of the issue, right, is that you have people out there who are trying to make arguments about matters of policy. And then you have people like Ben Shapiro who are essentially what they're like, well, no, I'm going to play referee and I'm going to determine what positions on matters of policy you're allowed to have. But it's like no one ever agreed that you're the ref. You're not you're not in charge of any of the rest of us. And as I've been saying now, Rob, on this show for, I guess, at least what for almost three years now, right?

1:03:40Almost since October 7th. I've been saying that like, you know, this shit ain't you're going to have to actually get down off your fake throne and get down here and argue with the rest of us. Like this shit ain't going to work. Nobody's listening to you. And look, after what Israel's done over the last three years, just no one sees her defenders as the moral arbiters anymore. You know, that's you're not going to be able to play that game. And you can't be known for debating children over gender confusion and then come out and say, I will tell you what is legitimate and illegitimate for big debates.

1:04:19And Shapiro got a lot of views debating much dumber things than Andrew Wilson and Candace Owens did. That's for sure. All right. That's our show for today. Catch you guys tomorrow at 1 PM. Peace.