The War Goes On

28:17But anyway, no, I mean, it's on the level of like, if somebody, if somebody was pinning someone down on the ground and you were like, I demand that you let that person up. And they were like, no, we're not going to let the person up. So then you just got on top of the person who was pinning the person to the ground. And then you went, I have total control over this person being pinned to the ground. You're like, yeah, but if your goal was to get them up, then this is counterproductive. They're more down than they were before. And that's exactly what's happened. Fewer ships have been passing through the Strait of Hormuz since the U.S.

28:52blockade of the blockade than were passing just under the Iranian blockade. So, okay, we control it. Great job, Scott Jennings. And I know we've talked about this before, But that guy is such a great like little microcosm, like a great little example of how the dialectic works. You know what I mean? Like how the kind of they do this thing where you got you get like five progressive retards and you put them around a table and then you have one Scott Jennings. They're just not being insane. And then that gets him like this street cred. Oh, yeah. Have you seen this guy? Oh, he's. I mean, over the years, this always just drove me crazy because there would always be they got Ben Shapiro is another example of this, where there would always be this thing where even when you agree with that.

29:46Right. So when we on, let's say, culture war issues, we probably largely agree with both of those two guys, you know, but there'd be this thing where like you remember back in the day when Ben Shapiro used to like go to a college campus and then there'd be like some some trans kid would like, you know, like a dude in a dress. who's 19 would get up to the microphone and be like, well, I heard you say really bad things about trans people. Why don't you recognize me as a woman? And he was like, let me ask you a question. How old are you? And the guy would be like, I'm 19. And he'd be like, okay, why aren't you 90?

30:20And he'd go, oh, well, what? Yeah. Why can't you identify as 90? And then you'd go, well, that, cause you're just objectively not 90. And they go, and you're objectively not a woman. And then everyone's like, yes, this dude's on fire. And like, look, obviously, I don't think you can change your gender. And I think the trans hysteria really was insane. But are we really going to celebrate this guy as some intellectual champion just because he could, you know what I'm saying? Like, this is anything that like a 10 year old should be able to do this. And so likewise, with Scott Jennings, they get they put him up against these progressive insane people.

30:58And then conservatives go, yeah, this guy's up there battling. But then when it comes down to it, he's just he's awful and he's completely dishonest. The total George W. Bush era hack, just just always on the side of launching stupid wars and then goes into complete propaganda mode because he can't just admit the obvious truth, which is that, oh, yeah, we shouldn't have done this. Oh, yeah, I was wrong. And why the hell did I think I was right? Why would I think after watching six disastrous wars in the Middle East that I bet this seventh one will be a good idea? I bet this will be the one time that it goes well.

31:36Just, I don't know, whatever. It's infuriating these guys. All right. Let's, why don't we, because we haven't gotten to this. There's a couple things that we have not given our take on that I suppose we have to. But we should talk. Tulsi Gabbard stepping down as a director of national intelligence. I don't know. What, what can you say about it? You know, when I first, I first, uh, my phone started blowing up this weekend, you know, people texting me and stuff, uh, that Tulsi stepped down and I did, I, my first thought was really like now, cause I just assumed it was over the war. You know, when you first heard it, it was like, well, I mean, Joe Kent had stepped down from her office, but just made no sense to me.

32:22I was like, wait, but she didn't, she waited all this time to now step down like this and then of course i saw it had nothing to do with the war uh presumably um but that her husband is is very sick evidently has a rare form of bone cancer and is uh um i've heard someone say it was stage four i'm not sure if that's accurate though i didn't hear her say that i think i read that somewhere um but i i mean i guess first and foremost i'd say it's very sad to hear that uh my i lost my grandmother to bone cancer bone cancer is fucking horrible It's extremely painful. It's brutal. I would not wish that on anyone.

33:00And so, you know, thoughts and prayers to Tulsi Gabbard's husband. But I guess I can't. I don't know. I mean, Rob, what can you say? I mean, so Tulsi Gabbard spent an entire political career, not just largely opposing regime change wars, specifically opposing regime change wars against the Shiites, because she knew the difference between Sunnis and Shiites. and she knew that Shiites had not been the terrorists who attack us, that we've never had. Iran has never killed an American on U.S. soil ever. And so that was like, she was like, that's not the enemies. And in fact, she even knows enough to know that they fight the terrorists who attack us in America and that Iran is not friends with Al-Qaeda and that Bashar al-Assad was not friends with al-Qaeda.

34:02Famously, she went and met with Bashar al-Assad trying to prevent the disastrous regime change war that we had there. And this war was the war she was against. I mean, she literally, there's just no, she sold no war with Iran t-shirts when she was running for president. Like she opposed this specific war and then sat as the director of national intelligence when Donald Trump not only launched the war, but then launched another war. Like she was the director of intelligence, of national intelligence during the 12-day war and through this one. And then it's like this thing, Rob, where she doesn't resign over them launching the war that she spent her whole career trying to prevent, ostensibly.

34:48And now she's resigned anyway and still hasn't said a damn thing against the war. I don't know. I mean, look, I'm sorry her husband is sick and that's terrible. And I hope he makes a recovery or if that's not possible, I hope it's as painless as, you know, as possible. But I'm sorry, I'm not going to not comment on the most blatant political betrayal perhaps that I've ever seen. Perhaps ever. is even more so than even more so than Donald Trump or Barack Obama or George Bush or lots of people who have run on one thing and then governed in a different way. She made this her issue. This it would almost be like to even get as big a political betrayal out of Donald Trump.

35:39It'd be like if Donald Trump had wide open borders right now, like the border crisis under Joe Biden. He just wasn't going to do anything about it. You'd be like, dude, this was your whole thing. This was her whole thing. And she ends up resigning anyway and doesn't even, even on the way out, doesn't say a word, a word about the war. I don't know, Rob. It's just crazy. It's like, I don't know that I've ever seen anything like this. You know, like even Bobby Kennedy, even when he was asked recently about the, what's the fucking chemical? I can't remember it. Yeah, that's right. Like when he was asked about that and he said something like, well, I wasn't happy about that one.

36:18But, well, you know what I mean? Like even he said something about it. I don't know. Really? I mean, I don't know. Tulsi Gabbard. Yeah, she just she really I don't maybe she gets some cushy positions somewhere. I don't see how she possibly can show her face to her like people ever again. I don't know. What are your thoughts, Rob? I'll be less classy than you. And, uh, I'm not saying their husband doesn't have cancer that they're not dealing with a tough time, but, uh, this strikes me like, uh, Hey, Donald Trump, I can't stick around for this anymore. What's the easiest way for me to leave without creating a problem.

36:57Oh, husband's not cancer. Just, uh, say that it's that and we'll go our own way. And, uh, either there's some cushy job for maybe, maybe she turns and, uh, tells tale, but I feel like she made a deal with the devil on this one. Now she's walking away with nothing. she needed to oppose this thing at the start of it she did not it's only getting worse and uh i think she doesn't want to be there anymore and uh refuses to actually tell tale and so she's uh she she already did that she already served her part uh and no one's upset with her and she doesn't want to stick around for it i'm just that that's what i'm speculating but possible but i guess that in a way a good way of covering their tracks though of always uh never having to admit fault defeat apologize anything so it's just too convenient of a storyline but what do i know yeah i get what you're saying i mean i guess who who really knows but there is something to it where it's like look when tulsi gabbard when they launched this war that you know tulsi gabbard has been against her entire career and she doesn't say anything i guess the assumption on some level if you're trying to be as charitable as possible, you know, as people would say, well, she's in a very tough position.

38:15Look, do you want her to step down and then someone much worse ends up getting in there? Or if you're Tulsi, then at least, you know, like people would make these arguments that it's like, at least you still have one, you know, level-headed voice in the room. She can try to get the president good intelligence, you know, and so, If you're being charitable about it, you go, well, she thinks she can do more good in that position than outside of that position. So she's going to take the reputational hit and, you know, hang on to the power because you could maybe do some good with that power. Now, I don't agree with that argument at all, but that was an argument that some people were making.

38:54And but then you go, well, hey, even if you have to step down for your husband or whatever, well, now you're in a position where you can say whatever you want. You're already giving up the power. Someone worse than you will be replacing you. You're not going to be able to do any good with that power. But even then, she doesn't bother to say one word about the war. And like, you know, I don't know. I just I don't know how you look at that as not like a fundamental betrayal. Like, goddamn, man, you get there's just no honor in our political system whatsoever. Like you go around the country, you speak to millions of people, you promise them that you're going to be here to try to avoid this war.

39:34And then you just go along with it and don't have shit to say. I don't know, man. I don't know what the punishment should be for that. It shouldn't be your husband getting bone cancer. That's for sure. But there should be some severe punishment to you for that. I mean, it's just horrible. Just absolutely, utterly disgraceful. I don't know what else you can say about it. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Ultra Pouches. Love the Ultra Pouches. It's a nicotine-free, zero nicotine, zero caffeine, guilt-free pouch. As you guys know, I'm a big pouch guy.

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41:26And I do just when I say that I really mean it. I feel like, well, we have to do this. I don't know. I feel an obligation to weigh in a little bit to this. I, you know, I got a lot of people on social media and stuff who were asking for my, my opinion. And, oh, God, I don't even know where to start. So, obviously, you know, me and you, Rob, we were, we got very involved in the Libertarian Party for a few years there, me a bit more than you, but we were both fairly involved. and um you know i i i was at the previous two uh national conventions in dc and in reno respectively and um you know i was not at this one there were there were a lot of people i know who were there um it was just really sad to watch some of the stuff happen it's kind of heartbreaking I mean, the state of the party is just an absolute mess.

42:26It's an absolute mess. The state of the membership is really not good. And there's some good people in the Libertarian Party. But overall, the spectacle that was this last Libertarian convention is just, it's almost like all factions involved should be able to recognize that that was a gigantic embarrassment. just absolutely you know like it's the worst thing you could do for the cause of human freedom is to wrap yourself in the name libertarian and then just humiliate everybody who who uses the term essentially and and the fact that there's an inability like okay all the the factional people in the libertarian party are arguing like no you're the one who made it an embarrassment no you're the one who made it an embarrassment and it is like a thing where it's the family guy meme you know kids kids you're both terrible um like you're all embarrassing us and like i mean i don't know if you could just recognize that this is pretty embarrassing it's like well then just stop you guys are not helping just stop um i know there are good people in the libertarian party And I understand that a lot of them still show up and still fight to try to get the thing to be better than it is because all things being equal, it'll be better if that thing is better than worse.

43:56I would really say at this point, people who are, I would say if you're still involved in the Libertarian Party, and particularly if you're still like putting sweat equity in, or you're still putting a lot of hours into your work in the Libertarian Party, I really think you might just want to question whether that's the best use of your time or not. Like what really is the goal here? What is achievable? What are we going to do? Because, you know, I look at some of the stuff I saw this weekend and it's just, you know, Scott Horton gave a great speech there, an unbelievable speech. It was like perfect in the way that only Scott could do.

44:41And then he introduced a motion and it failed. They didn't get the votes for it. We got our best guy on his topic. And then these fucking these members who literally half of them. I mean, I don't know what to say. I say like Scott's forgotten more than they know is an understatement, you know, and then they just make it. No, we disagree. OK, here you go. And anyway, I saw Justin Amash gave a speech. I very much like Justin Amash. It was the most embarrassing blue pilled speech I've ever heard. It's just like, like Justin Amash is there to tell the Libertarian Party how to be political winners.

45:22And it's like, Justin, like, dude, you're not a political winner. You got you got chased out of the house, you ran for Senate and got absolutely blown out in your own state. Like you've, you burned your political credibility. And now you're trying to school these guys to how they should be doing it. And it's just I don't know, just anyway, the whole thing to me is really bad. They evidently put a really embarrassing guy in his chair now. What can I tell you? I just, I really, you know, I think let these guys who want to have the Libertarian Party, let them have their little fiefdom. They are going to do nothing with it.

46:05They're going to remain irrelevant. But I think for the good people, for the serious people, I'm not saying leave the Libertarian Party. But I am saying maybe it's time to like reassess what you are putting your listen, there is and this isn't like a fixed pie fallacy, right? There are time and energy are limited resources. And maybe it is time to just think what's the best use of yours? because there's like, one of the things that's fascinating watching the Libertarian Party, right, is that it's like, it's almost like there's this book club and the book club studies freedom and revolutions and history and all this stuff.

46:48And this book club has taken place in this very little room. And then outside of this little room, there's this huge world. And in that world, a revolution is taking place. And the people in this little book club who read about revolution all day don't seem that interested in the fact that they're fucking living through one right now. It is amazing how removed Libertarian Party politics is from the country that they live in or the world that they live in. Like what's going on in the real world is that the Overton window has exploded. Every mainstream institution has lost all credibility. Our ideas are largely winning in many fronts in terms of public opinion.

47:30And the foreign policy, the American people largely agree with us on government corruption. The American people largely agree with us on. We got our work cut out on economics. Don't get me wrong. But there's this huge movement taking place. There are huge voices in the liberty world. As Judge Napolitano show is humongous. We're doing pretty good for ourselves. Scott Horton is on Rogan and Tucker and his book is killing it. You know what I'm saying? Like there's all these people, Tom Woods and Clint Russell. and Ron Paul and Dan McAdams are still there. There's this huge conversation happening with a lot of our ideas being inserted into the conversation.

48:09And then there's a small group of freaks who use our word, who are arguing about the latest drama on the LNC or which state party should be disaffiliated. And it's like, guys, how can anyone who really cares about human liberty decide in those two options, I'm going to get in here and fight with a pink-haired lady about who sits on the LNC. Like, if you're not a freak and you're an intelligent person, and there are lots of those in the Libertarian Party, really think about what we're going to do here. I'm not even saying it'd be the worst plan in the world to try to do something with the Libertarian Party.

48:49But we got to have some type of plan. Does that make sense, Rob?

48:55You're going to be meaner again, Rob's always just coming in to be a little bit meaner. I actually don't want to be meaner on this one. I kind of feel like... These people are your fans. These are the people who buy tickets to your show. You don't want to be mean to them. No, I feel like I got a lot of things in my life I'm trying to get off the ground and grow, and I got a long way to go, so I don't really like criticizing other people's passions, particularly if it's for freedom. It does make me sad that most of the clips that I see are not inspiring but are more embarrassing, and so i do think that they need to figure that out and uh some of these characters in the uh lp i i don't know why they're there other than feds to like thwart the movement i don't understand why they're drawn to liberty i don't know why they're not just far left activists um yeah the one the one cool thing that i did see was uh joe kent i i saw i i didn't watch the speech but i saw him giving some remarks in front of the uh wage again rage against the war machine yeah and i I thought that that was a smart pickup to potentially get him affiliated because he's out there with a good, you know, anti-foreign intervention message.

50:01But it does it. It's saddening that there's people affiliated with freedom and liberty. And when I see the clips, I find it embarrassing. Yeah, no, that's right. And, you know, you got to understand that. And this is like, you know, Carnegie, how to win friends and influence people shit. But it's like, look, if you look, obviously there is nothing in the philosophy of libertarianism itself that says, hey, you need to not be a freak. You need to like grow up and be presentable. OK, that's true. And in fact, the only thing that, strictly speaking, libertarianism would tell you about being a freak is that, well, you have a right to, you know, as long as you're not initiating violence on someone else, you have a right to do it.

50:47But then again, just because you have a right to do something doesn't mean it's right to do that thing. Right. So like it's the bottom line. This is something outside the scope of libertarianism and falls into this realm of common sense, which many libertarians struggle with. But like, if you seriously believe in a set of ideas or a set of principles, then it is incumbent on you to try to present those in a way that might be compelling to other people. And that, I mean, just look at those videos and you tell me if you think any normal person is going to look at that and go, oh, this is something I could get behind.

51:30Now, the thing that's, as you said, what's painful about it is that there's so much of libertarianism that is common sense and is beautiful and correct and noble that a lot of people could get behind. Very serious people could get behind that. If you were to get out there and say, like, we're bankrupting our country, fighting wars on behalf of foreign nations, this is ridiculous. Our country's falling apart. Washington corruption is out of control. Government debt and spending are out of care. You know, there are messages here that almost everyone would be, would look at and go, yeah, that's pretty undeniably true.

52:03And instead it's being presented in this manner. Now I will say this, okay. And this is, I guess this is what, what holds me back from just saying, you know, abandon this thing. Is that, I'll say this, and I've talked about this maybe before, but just to put these thoughts together, right. In 2024, there's something very interesting that happened. So for people who, you know, have followed the show for years and they're familiar, essentially there was this old, horrible guard in the Libertarian Party and they started trashing Ron Paul and Tom Woods and Jeff Dice and all our Libertarian heroes.

52:39And so then we we like formed an insurgency and took over the party. Our caucus was called the Mises Caucus. You know, I was pretty out front. Like I announced that we were going to take over the party. and we kind of are, this show was largely, not entirely, but largely was the engine that kind of took over the Libertarian party. Like I made a call to action. We're all joining the party. We're going to take it over. We did. And we did. And in Reno, we took over the whole party and with super majorities, we got every single position. Literally, I picked every single position on the LNC. And, you know, with Michael Heiss and Scott Horton and Angela McArdle and a bunch of those people.

53:24And, you know, I had planned on running for president. And then I backed out of doing that for a lot of reasons I've explained before. But so then essentially, so this happened in 22, we took over the whole party. So then the next convention there every two years. So the next convention was in 24. 24 happened to be a presidential election year. Now I had already decided I wasn't running, but the state of the party was essentially like, it was all set up for me to run. Then I didn't, but our guys controlled the entire LNC. And I was viewed, I'm not sure this is exactly accurate, but I was viewed by many as the leader of the party.

54:03Truth be told, I was never really the leader of anything because these libertarians don't much like being led. I've come to find out, but that was how it was viewed. And one of the things that was very interesting. So in this presidential year, I ended up becoming quite friendly with Vivek Ramaswamy and Bobby Kennedy. And I think my status in the Libertarian Party was a big reason of why they were so interested in being friendly with me. And both of them would be calling me on the phone a lot, asking stuff about the Libertarian Party. Now they were outsiders, so they didn't really get it. And I had to explain to both of them because they essentially both wanted me to support them as the nominee.

54:44Well, actually, Vivek didn't want to be the nominee. Vivek wanted me to deliver the Libertarian Party to Donald Trump, but that Vivek was the one who got it delivered. So he wanted that credit with the administration. And Bobby Kennedy wanted to be the nominee because he was running as an independent. He had switched from Democrat to independent at this point. And it's, you know, he's just killing himself, spending tons of money just for ballot access. But if you get the LP nomination, you get all the ballot access that Libertarian Party already has. So it was going to save him like$30 million to get the Libertarian Party nomination.

55:25And I had to explain to both of them that I was like, look, even though you view me as being like the leader of the libertarian party. That's not really how this works. Like, if I go to the libertarians, if I go to the members and I go, Hey guys, I know I'm not running, but you should support Bobby Kennedy. They'll all just go, what? No, he's a liberal. I'm supporting a liberal, you know? And so like, anyway, but the point I'm making is that one of the things that was very interesting about that is that you, you realize that there's like, Hey, these guys who are like worth hundreds of millions of dollars who are famous guys or at least the because i don't know what bobby's worth but a lot these guys literally from a political legendary family um these guys really see a lot of value in the libertarian party and that's kind of interesting because sometimes there's many libertarians who don't see any value in the party but then these guys really see value in the party all right guys let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Body Brain Coffee.

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57:33So if you enjoy the show, you owe a debt of gratitude to Louis J. Gomez. And here's how you can pay it back and get yourself some good coffee that's going to make you feel good at the same time. Bodybraincoffee.com, bodybraincoffee.com and make sure to use the promo code Dave20 that will get you 20 % off your order. Get the coffee, get the creamer, bodybraincoffee.com, promo code Dave20 for 20 % off. All right, let's get back on the show. And so I guess my point is, as I always tried to say, the Libertarian Party is a tool. A tool is not something, like all political parties, They're instruments.

58:10They're tools. And now a tool is not something that you get emotional about or you fall in love with or you become a partisan to. Like, I'm a wrench guy. It doesn't make any sense. You don't love your wrench. You don't cry. Your wrench can either get the job done or it counts. It's either the correct tool or it's not. Now, if you recognize the party as a tool, you go, okay, how can we use this tool? Is there a way to be effective? And in theory, there really is. Like, for example, right now, look, Thomas Massey's flirting with running for president. Would that be helpful to have the Libertarian Party under good hands right now?

58:49Sure, potentially. That could be really good. Um, can the libertarians play spoiler and get some bad Republicans? You know, we've been the difference before we will be again, or we could be again. Um, could they spoil some bad Republicans and then get some better Republicans in? Yeah. Like there are really cool things that a third party could do. The real foundational problem is that too big a percentage of the membership are just allergic to anything like that. And they're essentially in it to purity spiral. And so, or either that, or they've got like this worst form of pragmatism where it's like, well, let's be pragmatic and just run Bill Weld-like candidates.

59:34And you're like, yeah, but that'll never win anything. There's like a good form of radicalism and a good form of pragmatism that could be merged together there. Anyway, right. In order for that to happen, you would just have to get a bunch more people to join the party who were like-minded. It's not that impossible. And I think, dude, there's something like 6 ,000. I think someone said on stage that there's 6 ,000 members now. The party is just like completely collapsed. It's fallen apart. And so it's ripe to be taken over again. The thing is, you got to have a real specific plan so that there's a real specific call to action to get people excited to do something like that.

1:00:17And as of right now, I don't see it and I don't see how I could be helpful to that cause. So for me, it just makes sense. It's like, I'm in the business of communicating these ideas. I've been able to really insert myself on some huge platforms. we've been able to build this platform up. I've been able to move the needle on some issues. And it seems to me like that's what makes sense for me to put my time and energy into. I just, I do feel bad because I know there's still a lot of our guys, you know, behind enemy lines, so to speak, in the party. And I think that, you know, if there is, if the Libertarian Party is to be utilized in a productive manner, it's going to take a plan and it's going to take a drastic change in membership and in attitudes and straight up like some of these people need to be kicked out of the party if you were going to do that you need to just like get rid of some of these people um otherwise it's kind of unworkable so i don't know again i'll say this in the final thought there was always kind of an asymmetry here between kind of like the people in the libertarian party who really hate our guts and us because I don't really hate any of them.

1:01:34Now, there's a few people I know who are like really reprehensible people. I also still don't really hate them. Just don't really care. You guys take the party. Go do it. Go run Chase Oliver one more time. Oh, that's sure to move the needle. I've never seen anything. I've never seen somebody run a presidential campaign and become a less visible figure as a result of that. Literally never, including Jo Jorgensen. she still became a more visible figure off of it i i i don't know if chase still exists um but anyway i don't know any any other thoughts it was always just a construct he was always just a social construct that chase oliver he never really existed um anyway you know i wish i wish the libertarian party uh lots of luck you know best of luck to all those guys, but it just seems, um, it seems like the whole thing has become, it's not even a book club.

1:02:32A book club would be a substantial improvement over that book clubs are interesting. You know, like you might read a good book and have a good discussion on it. As are half the people in the libertarian party, it seems like I don't even think they read books and have good discussions on them. I don't think they're interested in the ideas. They seem to be much more interested in the the georgia vice chair race or something like that you know that seems to be what it's about or maybe i'll just continue as a looney tunes cartoon where jeremy kaufman comes in and yells and then they just uh slam the gauntlet anyways and he tries some new scheme and they just gauntlet anyways and just goes back and forth in an endless cycle yep it was uh yeah there was well at least jeremy got gave a little bit of a comedic you know uh uh break um you know, a little bit of levity from, from him in the situation.

1:03:22But the whole thing is just embarrassing, man. And, um, I know there was an incident with like a guy punching a chick cause she was stealing. Yeah. It's just like a whole, like, Oh my God, what the fuck? Yeah. I got arrested at the convention and it's just like, guys, you just, I don't know. There was some article, uh, in the paper. I didn't even care to read it. Uh, but it was about whether or not there should be a dress code. And I just started laughing that that's the way libertarian it. Like, Like, I mean, firstly, in my opinion, there shouldn't have to be a dress code. Right. Libertarianism.

1:03:56You should be able to dress however the hell you want. I know, like, even I know you hated Vernon Supreme. I wasn't really following it, but I kind of like the what would I call that? It's kind of an artist, like a showmanship of it. Yeah, it's a performance artist. And I kind of got I kind of got the goof of it. And I thought that there was a place for that kind of thing. And I think that there is a place for, you know, the occasional person who wants to dress strange in a performance artist type way. I don't really believe that you need a suit and tie dress code. But I think when it's making the newspaper that that's the problem at the convention, you missed your opportunity to share the message.

1:04:34Yeah, no question. Yeah. And it's like there's also there is a difference. Look, I never liked the Vernon Supreme thing. I thought it was stupid, but there's a difference between doing like a performance art bit and just being a freak. There's a difference between the two. And like, yeah, you kind of can't have the latter. And like you, I agree, Rob. Like, I don't really care if someone's wearing a T-shirt or a sweater or a suit and tie. But like, you're like, yeah, there shouldn't need to be a dress code because like I thought it was already like understood. you know it's like where there's like a um like no no uh no pants no shoes no business sign or something and you're like i thought we all just figured out we're supposed to wear pants when you go out to a restaurant you know what i mean like you don't need a strict dress code to just be like but you will be wearing pants right that's that's where the libertarian party's at it needs to be explained that you have to wear pants we got to change the bylaws we gotta have we gotta do uh an hour and a half of you know robert's rules of order or whatever god democracy is such a mess all right anyway i guess that's it i'm sorry that i don't have like kind of more to say on it but that's really just where i'm at um there a lot of our ideas are winning right now and um this this party is doing nothing but losing and it's occupied by a lot of losers and i think even the good people inside the party know that that's the truth and so either we're going to find a way to get a lot more people on board and we're going to take it over again.

1:06:10But if we do that, it's got to be with a specific plan. Otherwise, you know, I can't just be in the situation where every couple of years I'm telling my guys, we're taking it over again. And then something's going to lead to something. We got to really have a plan if we're going to do that. And I'll be the first one to let you know if somebody presents one to me that I like. All right. Thank you guys very much for listening. Appreciate it. Catch you next time. Peace.

1:06:43We'll see you next time.