'A Regime Change War With NO PLAN!' Is Attack on Iran Really 'America First'?

16:02Jack Posobiec:Like, serious question. Like, you act like you don't know that. You do realize that Iran fundamentally funds, trains, Hezbollah, Hamas, and other terrorist groups.

16:11Ben Ferguson:Jesus Christ. Yes, I know.

16:12Jack Posobiec:I mean, that's not, like, breaking news.

16:15Ben Ferguson:Can I just talk for a second since you already spoke? Sure, but don't act like you're a smart guy.

16:19Jack Posobiec:Like, you should know that. You're downplaying Iran's threat to the world.

16:22Ben Ferguson:Dude, shut up for a second. I've heard a million times idiots like you. Who go on Fox News. You're saying it's not true. Dude, can I just fucking talk, dude? This is so boring. I've heard a million of Fox News. Don't say dumb things then. Okay. I go on CNN too, by the way, okay?

16:38Jack Posobiec:So it's not just Fox News, buddy.

16:41Ben Ferguson:Okay, so I've heard the talking point a million times that Iran is the number one sponsor of terrorism. It is something that the Warhawks love to say. I have actually never once heard a coherent definition of terrorism and then a demonstration that they're the worst of it. The IDF is the worst terrorist organization in the region. Let's get real. The United States of America is arguably the worst terrorist organization in the world. If you want to look over the last 25 years, how many innocent civilians we've slaughtered. You're getting us into the neocon. Yeah, that's right. You're getting us into the neocon seventh war, which they've been dying for for the last 25 years.

17:18Jack Posobiec:You might want to take down, by the way.

17:20Ben Ferguson:No, actually, if you love this country, if you're a real patriot, you'd have to hate this government. You said America killed me. It's like the worst terrorist in the world more than Iran, dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. D.C. D.C. killed a lot more people than Iran did. And that's George W. Bush and Barack Obama and Joe Biden and Donald Trump. There's mass graves that were disagreeing, but OK. Dude, just all you can do is just interrupt because you know you have no point on your side. Anyway, Pierce, what actually matters here— Pierce, are there not mass graves in Iran for a false— Anyway, what actually—anyway, what actually matters here is that the calculation has been drastically changed and the incentives have been changed by Donald Trump, even since the 12-day war.

17:55Ben Ferguson:Look, for the 12-day war to work out the way it did really relied on a major piece of that puzzle, which was that Iran, for self-preservation reasons, showed restraint in their response. They called ahead. They let us know where they were going to target. They made sure they didn't kill any Americans. This time, once Donald Trump killed the Ayatollah, they offered, through their Italian negotiators, They offered a ceasefire. Iran said no. Iran has now made the calculation that they simply can't let America come in and kill the Ayatollah and not respond because then they'll just keep picking on them.

18:32Ben Ferguson:Donald Trump already announced this was a regime change war with no plan. Absolutely no plan. As he has admitted, as Rubio has admitted, they have no plan for what comes next. And this is the scenario I got to say, man, I hate to be vindicated like this, Pierce, but this is the scenario that all of us were warning about since well before the 12 day war that now you've gotten yourself into a situation. Americans are dead. I think Mr. Miller misspoke when he said four people are dead, four Americans are dead over there. Probably more to come. Donald Trump says more to come. We've had a couple of Americans killed in Austin in a blowback terrorist attack that's happened already since then.

19:09Ben Ferguson:And like, dude, the lack of wisdom here from the Trump administration, like you have no idea what you just kicked off. There is absolutely no reason to think that this thing is not going to be a catastrophe, just like the last six theaters in the global war on terrorism. And by the way, you know, just one very quick last point. I'm sorry, Pierce, but I'm really, you know, interrupting me a bunch. Let me just say one thing. For all the supposed pretend intellectuals out there, like the Gad Sads and the Sam Harris, who have spent a career talking about how violent and irrational the Muslim world is because you can't even draw up a cartoon of Muhammad or they'll start killing people.

19:46Ben Ferguson:Hey, what do you think happens when you murder an Ayatollah? Did anyone know that that's not just a political figure to the Shiites who we've had no beef with really so far?

19:55Jack Posobiec:policy is don't kill bad guys because they fight back that's like the most very good

20:00Ben Ferguson:foreign policy i've ever heard oh no actually ben my foreign policy is don't adolf hitler i guess would still be alive if we use your foreign policy great good one but you just speaking slogans my foreign policy adolf hitler's a bad guy you better not attack him go after him and stop him from invading all of europe and taking over the world don't mess with your whole game

20:19Jack Posobiec:never because that guy's a really bad guy that's your foreign policy so ben you just so you're just

20:23Ben Ferguson:going to say the dumbest thing and then interrupt me if I respond? You literally just said, I'm in

20:29Jack Posobiec:Texas where the Austin attack happened and your policy is, hey, be really nice to bad people and then they might not kill you. That is your foreign policy. And you're now saying that Donald Trump is somehow responsible for a terrorist that said property of Allah and had a Iranian t-shirt on saying, oh no, that's Donald Trump's fault. Not actually the terrorist's fault. That is the problem with so many of you on the left.

20:53Ben Ferguson:Because you don't understand that sometimes you have to pick out seven I'm seven clicks to the right of you. I actually want to give two other panel members. Shut up. Two other panel members have so far said Okay guys, two other panel members have said nothing.

21:09Piers Morgan:But let's bring them in.

21:10Ben Ferguson:Alright, whatever.

21:12Piers Morgan:Well, you said a lot and it was interesting. I want to bring in Jack Posobiec. Jack, it's interesting to watch how the conservative right is reacted to this. You've got Tucker Carlson, one of the big figures of the conservative right, going off the deep end about this attack, calling it disgusting, calling it evil. You know, that would have been unprecedented 20 years ago to hear someone who was such a big figure of the conservative right in America going after a Republican government's decision to do something like this in such a virulent manner, rhetorically. What do you feel about this? I mean, I think a lot of what Dave Smith is saying is the fears a lot of people on the right have about this too.

21:54Piers Morgan:The polls show this is a very unpopular move. Even Republicans are heading now below, nearly below 50 % support for this, which is unprecedented for a military action like this under a Republican president. How are you feeling about this?

22:11Jack Posobiec:Well, Piers, last time I was on here, that's exactly what I said. I said that if this turns into a full on regime change, forever war kind of prolonged, protracted situation, that's something that's going to prove to be very unpopular in this midterm year. And I'm certainly not going to change my analysis on that. That's just true. That's just the absolute truth of the matter. The question is, I think, and still remains, will this be a Venezuela style situation where there's going to be one military operation, a brief operation, and then this protracted or I should say immediate, you know, immediate ceasefire and then a situation where a new leadership is brought in and the U.S.

22:49Jack Posobiec:is working with that leadership. You did hear the president say that, I believe, to Brett Baier earlier today. And yes, he's been making a lot of statements across all of media and saying different things in different places. But we have heard and I've heard from the administration some rhetoric regarding this this Venezuelan model, which does seem to be very well celebrated. And of course, he pointed that out at the State of the Union last week. But look, you know, Charlie Kirk is, you know, is someone who lobbied very hard back in June, along with myself, to say, do not push this and warned very succinctly, I believe, and very strongly that younger voters are not going to be on board with this because they are war weary.

23:30Jack Posobiec:After looking at Iraq, after looking at Afghanistan, after seeing the pullout in Kabul in 2021 and saying, what is it worth? What is it for? So you do see this. You see this split really within MAGA where older voters, it's 50, 55 up. Very, very, very supportive. Then younger voters, very, very against. Gen Y kind of in the middle. Global War on Terror veterans generally in the middle. That's what's going on. President Trump ultimately is the only one who knows how it's going to shake out. J.D. Vance, of course, up there as well. And so that's going to be the situation. Look, those guys know what the situation is on the ground.

24:08Jack Posobiec:And those guys obviously realize that they're the ones conducting this election right now in the midterms. And certainly they know what the stakes are.

24:16Piers Morgan:Okay. Jojo, thank you for your patience and welcome back to Uncensored. What is your view about the killing of the Ayatollah Khomeini? I mean, for 47 years, it's indisputable that the Iranian regime has been a ruthless, barbaric regime, which has terrorised its own people, which has sponsored terrorism throughout the Middle East, predominantly aimed at Israel through the tentacles of Hezbollah, through the Houthis, through Hamas and so on. celebrated October the 7th and all these things. None of that is really up for debate. I mean, that's what they've been. The question becomes a little bit like the debate about Saddam Hussein at the start of a century when I was editor of the Daily Mirror here in the UK and took a very strong position against that war because I did not believe that we had established, the US and the UK in particular, a reason to take him out, that the weapons of mass destruction seemed to be a construct that wasn't built on evidence.

25:17Piers Morgan:That turned out sadly to be true. And we had 20 years of mayhem that came out of that, led predominantly by the rise of ISIS, who filled the vacuum and caused terrorism for two decades. So, you know, I have a long memory when it comes to these kind of things. And that was a situation where it needed boots on the ground, which turned out to be a complete disaster. Here, Donald Trump is holding the possibility of committing more boots on the ground to a country of 93 million people, where you have, you know, one and a half million heavily armed people that work for the regime, from the Republican Guard down to the regular army, to the paramilitaries.

25:57Piers Morgan:This is an enormous number of heavily armed, committed to the regime people who will repress any uprising of the kind Donald Trump wants, I would imagine, in a very quick and very draconian way, as we saw only last month. So this seems to me, when you add in the attacks on hotels in Dubai and the rest of it, it seems to me a very precarious situation. So when Jack says, well, Donald Trump knows what's happening, I'm not completely convinced that he can know what's happening. And it's the unpredictability of this which is concerning to me.

26:33Tim Miller:No, thank you. You're absolutely right. I'm not going to be shedding a tear for the Ayatollah, that's for sure. But if we're going to be talking about, you know, oppressive, despotic regimes who hate America and our country's goal being going in to have regime change, we could go into a lot of countries. I mean, Donald Trump is literally rolling out the red carpet for Vladimir Putin. He's falling in love with Kim Jong-un. But the thing is, in this particular case, they keep moving the reasoning behind this attack. They can't agree with themselves. Donald Trump said it was an imminent threat. Donald Trump said it was about regime change.

27:11Tim Miller:Pete Hegseth said it's about preventing them from having an umbrella, preventing them from having nuclear weapons. Ted Cruz says there's no evidence that they've seen that they even have the capacity for nuclear weapons or for enrichment. The thing is, they haven't thought this through. Donald Trump doesn't think things through. There is no endgame. There was no clear objective. I'm still waiting for him to explain this to anybody coherently. He hasn't done so. But to your point originally about this being America first or not America first, this is yet another one of Donald Trump's campaign promises that he has not delivered on.

27:47Tim Miller:And if I'm somebody who voted for him, I'm looking right now at all of these things that he said he was going to do and hasn't. This one in particular, no new foreign wars. I remember every MAGA idiot in my replies telling me to cry harder because they got the guy who was going to get us out of these long protracted wars. He said he was going to release the names in the Epstein files. Now we know he had to be compelled by Congress to do so. Then he slow walked those and only released half and redacted 96 % of his own name mentions. He also said he was going to bring down the cost of groceries.

28:20Tim Miller:He was going to bring down our electric bills. Not only is that not happening, everything is moving in the wrong direction. Our GDP, inflation, etc. Another promise that he made to his base who voted for him that he is not delivering on. And to me, this one is the easiest one because we have, as you played at the top, soundbite after soundbite after soundbite of him saying he was going to be the candidate for peace, that he was going to get us out of these wars, that Kamala Harris was going to be the one that got your sons and daughters into these protracted wars. And by the way, Hex has said today, Donald Trump said today, we could be looking at five weeks.

29:01Tim Miller:Neither one of them will say we won't put boots on the ground. And that is very different than what they said in Venezuela. And to the point about Venezuela being a success, I would ask the people of Venezuela if that is actually true. If their lives are markedly better right now since we went in and removed their leader. That's what I'm concerned about. I'm desperately concerned that there is no strategy here. Based on the reaction of the streets, I'm pretty sure they'd say yes. I want to finish this point. This is very important to me, sir. Pardon me. I just really want to finish this. We're talking about Iran.

29:30Jack Posobiec:I really need to finish this.

29:33Tim Miller:This is near and dear to my heart because I grew up near a military base. My father worked for the Department of Defense. He was based on a military base. Most of my siblings have served. This is near and dear to my heart. The men and women of our military, our service members, deserve better than a commander-in-chief who does not have a plan. They deserve better than a five-time draft dodger who called the fallen of war suckers and losers. They deserve better than someone who demeaned a POW, disparaged a Gold Star family, insulted a military widow, desecrated Arlington National Cemetery, told John Kelly that he did not know, as he stood on hollow ground, what was in it for them.

30:11Tim Miller:Our men and women of our military, our service members, they deserve a commander-in-chief that doesn't say it is what it is when they die in combat.

30:19Piers Morgan:Just remember that. Let me bring... The military overwhelmingly voted for him twice. Hang on, hang on. Ben Ferguson. Actually, three times. This statistic is incredible. So Axios reported on Monday that no president in the modern era has ordered more military strikes against as many different countries as Donald Trump. Now, Marjorie Taylor Greene, a former big Trump MAGA supporter, said, we said no more foreign wars, no more regime change. We said it on rally stage after rally stage, speech after speech. Trump, Vance, basically the entire admin campaigned on it and promised to put America first and make America great again.

31:00Piers Morgan:There are 93 million people in Iran. Let them liberate themselves. But Iran's on the verge of having nuclear weapons. Yeah, sure. We've been spoon-fed that line for decades. And Trump told us all that his bombing this past summer completely wiped it all out. It's always a lie. And it's always America last. That's coming from a once massive Trump supporter, as is Tucker Carlson. most of the time, who calls this evil and disgusting.

31:27Jack Posobiec:Yeah, both of them are fringe people, individuals now, not in the Republican conservative movement. Let's just be clear. You're quoting someone that used to be pretty sane and now has gone pretty crazy. Marjorie Taylor Greene, the most important thing she ever did was Ferguson's mainstream. Jack's fringe.

31:42Ben Ferguson:Ben's the mainstream. Wow. Again, I'll go back to what I was saying.

31:46Jack Posobiec:His fringe. Absolutely. The overwhelming majority of... Marjorie Taylor Greene. and Tucker Carlson right now.

31:52Ben Ferguson:Lizzie Graham is the mainstream. Tucker Carlson is fringe. Marjorie Taylor Greene is like, is someone,

31:57Jack Posobiec:the most important thing she ever did in her time in Congress was wait until the deadline to get her pinch and to resign one day afterwards. So like, you want to talk about being a selfish person. Don't you do a podcast to resign for goodness sake? You do a podcast? Well, let me answer the question. I'm defending Marjorie Taylor Greene. Let me answer the question. You're all liberals. I'm a conservative. Don't act like you know what we know on the conservative side. I won't tell your liberal whack friends what you guys believe. Neo. Neo.

32:20Ben Ferguson:Make sure you put the neo in front of it. Neo-conservative.

32:23Piers Morgan:Whatever you are, you go through your thing over there. Can I allow... I would like to allow the mainstream conservative member of the panel, Ben Ferguson, to respond. You know the rules, Pierce.

32:35Ben Ferguson:The rules are, if he interrupts me my whole time, then I'm going to do it to him. Those are the Pierce Morgan rules. I can't stop laughing about Margaret Killer Green being fringe.

32:44Piers Morgan:As always, all panelists can behave in any way they think. shows them off in the best possible light.

32:52Jack Posobiec:Martin Taylor Greene resigned from Congress because she couldn't win re-election. That's because the Republicans excommunicated her. Yes. Otherwise, she would have won. I don't know if you don't know how to read polling, but she read her own polling and saw she wasn't going to win.

33:06Piers Morgan:OK, but Ben, Ben, Ben. All right, but Ben, Ben, Ben, let me just look. That Axios stat alone, you know, using that stat as you run seven months now away from the midterm elections, If this goes the wrong way for Donald Trump, and it could easily go the wrong way, they get stuck into a terrible quagmire, you know, Israel and the United States in Iran. No, it costs you midterms. There's no quick win or whatever. This could lead to a complete shellacking in the midterms. Trump becomes a lame duck president in that eventuality. And this becomes the thing he's remembered for. I mean, the stakes are incredibly high here.

33:42Piers Morgan:Yeah.

33:43Jack Posobiec:Look, I agree with Jack on the point you made earlier, that if this goes long and there's troops on the ground in a more traditional way, this will be a disaster. And there's a very good chance the Republicans will get beat in the midterms. That means that Trump's agenda disappears. That means investigations and impeachment start right away. Democrats have already said that they will go after him and impeach him again and go after anyone around impeach him again. I know you guys are grinning at the bottom because you guys like to use lawfare instead of like actually listen to the American people.

34:11Jack Posobiec:But what the president of the United States of America has made it clear here, he believed that Iran, this was a moment to act. And this was a moment. You guys were spying on multiple Republicans and abusing power of the government. Susie Wilds and the FBI directors came out. I know you can laugh about it because you guys are sick. Like you used the government to weaponize it. There's a fact here on that.

34:35Tim Miller:Democratic members of Congress lawfare. Are you serious right now?

34:38Jack Posobiec:You're relying on citizens in the government because you didn't like them. That is a fact, period. He literally fired anybody who would not initiate an investigation into his adversary.

34:52Tim Miller:You want to talk about lawfare? I'm sorry.

34:55Jack Posobiec:Let's not all speak to one. If Donald Trump doesn't get this right and do it in the way that he's described, which is a short term. We're talking about weeks here, right? four weeks, five weeks, and then be able to pull out, it will be a disaster going into the midterms. I think Donald Trump understands that clearly. And I also think he thought the objective here was worth that risk because he wasn't making this decision for a political reason. If he was, he wouldn't have done it. The polling data that you sit here and you look at, you're like, hey, just don't go there. Let's not do this. The polling data says it's worth it going to midterms.

35:28Jack Posobiec:I think it was a national security decision for him. I think he understood that national security perspective. I think he understood the threat that Iran was to us and the rest of the world. And I think he saw an opportunity here. And he said, I'm going to take this opportunity to do this because I believe in it that much. If you were making decisions solely based on polling, then you wouldn't make this decision. I think it's a national security decision, which, by the way, is what we want our presidents to do, whether it's Obama or Joe Biden.

35:53Piers Morgan:All right. Let me bring in Tim Miller. I mean, I would categorize it, Tim, more as a massive roll of a dice by Donald Trump. I think he's been persuaded about the timing by Netanyahu and the Israeli government, who've been itching to do this now for a very long time. I'm not saying that Trump doesn't think it would be a good thing for the world. I think he probably does. But I think the timing is so fascinating to me. And the reason I say a roll of a dice is because politically, the downside, if this goes even remotely wrong, or just gets stuck for the next few months is so clear to me. This could absolutely cost Trump everything in terms of political power come November.

36:36Piers Morgan:And once he becomes somebody without control of the House, as Ben said, you know, your ability to do anything just gets paralysed until the end of your term. So the stakes are incredibly high. But there is another way to look at this, which is Trump has been pretty uniquely successful in doing precision attacks on the foreign stage, you know, whether it's Soleimani when he took him out, whether it's al-Baghdadi when he took him out, whether it was the 12-day war last summer, time and again, whether it's bringing a ceasefire to Gaza, and nobody really thought there was a chance of that. Venezuela.

37:11Piers Morgan:Time and again, Trump has gone in and done quick surgical strikes on places. It's been a very different philosophy to boots on the ground, years in war and so on. And that's probably emboldened him to do this. And he's probably calculating that he, by taking out the entire hierarchy of this regime, which appears to be what's happened, to the extent where the next two, three, four and five people they thought might be potential next leaders, apparently all got killed too. Even the ex-president, Ahmadinejad, who I once interviewed, has been killed, apparently. So a complete wipeout of all the sort of top names in the Iranian regime.

37:48Piers Morgan:He's calculating this could lead to a domino effect where you could see the regime getting toppled because actually a number of the Revolutionary Guard perhaps turn on it, the regular army follow, suddenly the people feel that this is moving the right way, and as we saw in Syria, boom, suddenly there... Look, I'm not saying this will happen, but I'm saying we have seen this happen in different places around the world, and it can happen very quickly If people feel like if the ones supporting the regime believe it's going down and the people sense that, these things can change very quickly. So you could be in a position by the summer where Donald Trump actually has affected genuine change there.

38:31Piers Morgan:The people have risen up and Iran is removed of a 47 year repressive regime. And that could play well for Trump. And it could lead to the Abraham Accords having Saudi Arabia join it and others. because I do think the big strategic error Iran has made is attacking the Gulf states. And I think the moment they've done that, they've lined up all these places like UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and others, lined up now behind an America-Israel pact going into Iran, which I didn't think I'd ever see. So I think a lot of things are possible here. Tim, your response to my thoughts.

39:09Dave Smith:Yeah, a couple of things. Look, just how strained that hypothetical case of how it could possibly go well is, I think, speaks to just political disaster and the danger of this situation for Trump. I'm like, sure. Yeah, obviously, he's high on his own supply because some of these other, you know, one off strikes have gone well. This is obviously very different than that. Yes, obviously, he's being influenced by MBS and BB to a degree that they might be just kind of walking around the dog park at this point, convincing him to get into this. but this is such a different scenario than all those other scenarios as mentioned earlier and thanks Dave for the for the update on the language but like four American troops are already dead and again like for what like in your strange scenario the best case scenario is that maybe in the future there'll be an internal struggle in Iran and a regime that we like better but we don't know who it is will be taking control like if you polled the American people just two weeks ago and said hey would it be worth four american deaths for the possibility that maybe iran might get a better regime but we're not sure who it is i think that would be like a 20 to 80 you know only 20 of the country like ben and a couple of his buddies would be for that i most of the republicans wouldn't be for that and look at this panel jack was one of trump's biggest supporters like he's hedging on this you know uh i supported gabe was one of trump's biggest supporters he's even more hostile to me against this he's calling us terrorists i'm not even that far like among trump's own base this is a disaster independent voters you look at polls of all ages last independent poll i saw had 19 percent in support of this among independents and the best case scenario you can point out is that like maybe there'll be some new leadership but we don't know who it is and we're not supporting a particular person like that's a crazy that's crazy it's a crazy risk and sure yeah the arab states are with us for now but are they going to continue to be if if you know their hotels and their oil reserves are being bombed are the people of uae and qatar and saudi as on board with this as their leadership i'm skeptical of that what about our european allies oil prices in europe are up 50 today and this thing is already a disaster we're on day three and they have no plan for getting out of it it's like we're gonna bomb them for four more weeks and and hope that something good happens good luck yeah it's a Well, it's interesting.

41:28I mean, right.

41:29Piers Morgan:I mean, Dave Smith, the oil part of this is fascinating to me because I wasn't an expert on the Strait of Hormuz until yesterday when I really studied it at length. I was like, well, OK, what what goes through this trade? OK. And, you know, it turns out 20 percent of the oil production of the world goes through this trade on a daily basis. and it's, you know, millions and millions of barrels. But interestingly, 78 % of it goes to Asia, predominantly China, right? About 10 % goes to the United States and about 10 % to Europe. So actually the biggest victim of closing the Strait of Hormuz would be China, who are a traditional ally of the Iranian regime, which raises all sorts of questions.

42:12Piers Morgan:But, you know, Iran itself is somebody that exports a lot of its oil through the Strait of Huyus. So they would also damage their own ability to export oil. So they'd be damaging their biggest oil importer from the Strait, which is China, and their own ability to export it. It seems to me that playing that card doesn't suit Iran and doesn't suit China. So, you know, you're left then with purely the military card, aren't you?

42:42Ben Ferguson:Well, I mean, they're already playing that card, right? And they sunk a tanker the other day. And then what happens then is that the insurance companies get worried about insuring ships going through there. And so you kind of like, in effect, can shut down the Strait of Hormuz. But, you know, to your point, Pierce, about attacking other countries in the region and shutting down the Strait, the idea here, I mean, it seems like the thinking from the Iranian perspective is that they feel like they have to give us a bloody nose in this one. That they can't allow us to do this without suffering some.

43:12Ben Ferguson:Now, that's a very difficult calculation. But, of course, Pierce, they're making a calculation with a knife to their neck. I mean, the most powerful government in the history of the world's commander-in-chief announced regime change and that they have to go. I think also, you know, I would probably even state stronger than what I said at the beginning. It's not that if this goes bad, Donald Trump has destroyed his presidency. If this isn't an overwhelming success in that very unlikely scenario that you laid out, I think this destroys Donald Trump's presidency. I mean, if he goes over there and just kills a bunch of Iranians, the result of this is that a bunch of Iranians are dead, a bunch of Israelis are dead, a bunch of U.S.

43:50Ben Ferguson:soldiers are dead, but the regime still stands, even though he announced regime change, and then he just comes back? I mean, I think that's death for the rest of his presidency. So he's—everybody has now painted themselves into a very difficult position to get out of. You know, Jack had a maybe a couple of months ago, Jack put out like a mini documentary on the war in Iraq, which was excellent. It was excellent. I shared it on Twitter. And one of the things I believe you had this in there. I can't remember. I've watched too much stuff about the war in Iraq. But I believe you had in there the quote on Meet the Press where Dick Cheney says right before the war in Iraq, it'll be weeks, not months.

44:27Ben Ferguson:You know, it's really easy at the beginning of the it's really easy at the beginning of this thing to say, oh, well, don't worry. The plan is it'll go really great. But I mean, Pierce, it is true. Look, people were celebrating in the streets. That is that is true. People in Venezuela were celebrating in the streets. Of course, the regime isn't gone. And the people in Venezuela don't have any more liberty than they did then. Now, of course, in Iraq, which is a super majority Shiite country, there were a lot of people celebrating in the streets when Saddam Hussein first fell. He was a brutal dictator who oppressed the majority of his population.

45:03Ben Ferguson:But the thing is this, Pierce, right? In the last Iranian election, the president, who was far to the right of the last president, got like 20 percent of the vote. You know, Iran is a country of 90 million people. If you got even 5 million people who are committed, you know, Ayatollah-loving Islamists, well, that's more than enough for a healthy insurgency. And so the thing is that this is—

45:31Jack Posobiec:By the way, just for a particular, Saddam also got above 90 percent of the votes in his last election, too. So there are major questions about is it that's a free and fair election. Let's be clear. I don't think it's fair to the people in Iran to say that they voted for this guy, the Ayatollah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The point, okay. So, in other words. So, in other words. Right, right, right. Like, that's unfair to people who are in.

45:51Ben Ferguson:You're just not, you're just missing the point. It's not a fair election. But anyway. Like, that's just crap. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not claiming it is. You're just missing the point. But I'm not claiming it is.

45:56Jack Posobiec:Well, then don't use the stat to act like they chose the guy that they didn't chose. No, no, no. You just don't get it. Like, people are getting run over the streets and killed by him.

46:01Ben Ferguson:They're not real. They're not real elections, necessarily. Then don't act like they are. just yeah i mean you just won't let me finish the sentence you just quoted like hey well you know you can't win the argument and then you're like okay maybe it was a fake election maybe it's a real election i had i admire that you know you can't win the argument so you just have to talk over me every time listen man we don't know just true or false was a free and fair election arena

46:23Jack Posobiec:the last time there was election true or false pierce was a free election or true or false

46:27Ben Ferguson:piers piers because you guys i have to simplify it for you okay okay cool cool cool piers for the For the last two years, Pierce, for the first time really in my lifetime and maybe in American history, the Warhawks have had to come debate us. Like it's a new it's a new reality now. Like Ted Cruz was trying to tweet at me the other day. Like now that the media has been decentralized and the corporate media is destroyed, they actually have to come in and have the argument. And we have so consistently destroyed you guys over the last two years. Just like the propaganda you put out about the elections in Iran.

47:02Jack Posobiec:Again, got it. This is now - Yeah, you destroyed us. Yeah. Again, you can't stop interrupting, Pierce.

47:07Ben Ferguson:He can't let me make the point. This is now a pro-Palestinian country. That's how bad you guys have lost the argument. So you guys are all giddy now because you got your war, even though the American people are totally against it. Just wait, dude. By the way, Pierce, keep in mind what Ben just said. It's almost like you're rooting for American failure so you can be right on Twitter. That's pretty messed up. Okay, so Pierce, this is how stupid this is. if I were to say to someone, don't get hammered and go out and drive your car, and then you get hammered and go out and drive your car, and I go, hey, you're hammered.

47:36Ben Ferguson:Come home right now. Ben would say, you're rooting for me to crash the car. No, dummy. I'm rooting for you to get out of the car. The difference between you is that you're sitting there, and you don't care about the people in Iran.

47:49Jack Posobiec:You don't care about the American troops who have been killed by Iran. You guys talk about the people in Iran. What is a dumb argument?

47:58Ben Ferguson:time out you don't care about people fuck off

48:01Piers Morgan:the reality Dave about what you said about the last two years in the media and stuff is actually one of the reasons why my show has become increasingly popular is precisely because you would not see a debate, you would not see a debate like we've seen between you and Ben Ferguson for the last hour anywhere on mainstream media it's actually it's actually it's actually an important and healthy thing that people who have diametrically opposed views have to duke it out with each other. I feel like I learned things.

48:33Ben Ferguson:One quick point, NPR, one quick point that I didn't get to get in. Very quickly, we're running out of time, but very quickly. If Ben is going to say, which by the way, my prediction on this, Donald Trump has lost the midterm elections and if this thing goes bad, the 2028 election is gone and a Democrat will win. And even by Ben's own admission here, he's risking, he's risking handing this country back over to the Democrats for what? To maybe liberate the people of Iran? That's America first? That we're going to risk President AOC over them getting their freedom? I mean, Jack, dude, you got to admit, man, we got to abandon this president now, dude.

49:09Ben Ferguson:That's it. He chose Martin Luther King and Lindsey Graham. Okay, let me ask Jack. Don't talk at once. Don't talk at once.

49:17Piers Morgan:I want to ask Jack. I want to ask Jack this. So, Pauline Mark, it's an interesting point, this, I think. So Polymarket have asked about the possibility of a ceasefire, right? 1 % by March 2nd. I think I can agree with that. But by the end of March, 45 % potentially. But the highest overall, April 30th, there could be a ceasefire by then, 65%. I think the interesting thing here is Trump's done a lot of U-turns recently about a lot of stuff. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if at some stage, if this is going the wrong way, he suddenly pivots to, you know what? We had a job to take out the Ayatollah and the top of this evil regime.

49:55Piers Morgan:We put them back in their box. They won't dare do this again. And he claims or attempts to claim a victory based on what has already been done, accepting that they can't do an awful lot more. Could you see that situation?

50:10Jack Posobiec:I mean, I could absolutely see that. Look, I was just saying before, Donald Trump is not George W. Bush. J.D. Vance is not Dick Cheney. So you can't put the oranges comparison. that situation and thank god they're not right obviously yeah and that's why we haven't seen these troop movements talking i mean sure he's he's never going to you know announce in a press conference what the strategy is going to be but we just haven't seen marines and expeditionary units and army being sent over we've seen naval power we've seen air power so we just haven't seen boots on the ground really been seriously deployed to the area uh what it looks like to me i i would be surprised if this thing goes beyond march personally um that's what the president's been signaling in terms of four weeks.

50:50Jack Posobiec:And he's already said that he thinks it's ahead of schedule because of this situation where they got, what, 40 to 49 members of the leadership out. So the minute I think that someone comes up, and it's just, you know, reading the tea leaves out here, but the minute I think that someone comes up that seems to be a stable leadership, whether that be IRGC, whether that be the civilian president, whether that be another Ayatollah, I think they're going to take the - It could be anyone.

51:10Dave Smith:It could be an Ayatollah. It could be the IRGC. It could be Riley Gaines. The Persian people. It could be a lady from the streets. We don't fucking know. Kimberly Gillespie. Who the hell knows? Who I come up to lead Iran next. It's a great plan. I mean, at least George... It could be also Rubio. Final word.

51:29Piers Morgan:Okay. Final word to Jojo. Jojo. Jojo, very quickly. You look like you were indeed licking your lips at the prospect of all this, potentially going so badly that you guys win the house. No.

51:44Tim Miller:Well, hold on a minute. I want to clarify something. We have human lives that are at stake here. I am not hoping that it goes badly when it comes to our service members. I want to be very, very clear about that. I'm not hoping it goes badly at all. Certainly not for the Iranian people. What I want to know is what our national security interests are here. What I want to know is how any of this makes any of us any safer. What I want to know is how any of this makes my grocery bill lower, lowers my electricity, or gets more transparency for the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein. I want to know how this advances the United States of America, because what I'm looking at is something that makes us less safe.

52:23Tim Miller:And we're already, by the way, since we're all talking about this being the tipping point in the don't tip the waiter game, we're already looking at a country where everything is moving in the wrong direction. We are poorer. We are sicker. We are hemorrhaging manufacturing jobs. We're basically not even adding jobs to our economy at all right now. Again, GDP moving in the wrong direction. Inflation is basically stagnant. The United States of America is in a bad place right now. For Donald Trump to choose to do this right now when he doesn't have a real justification, he's certainly not made the case to the American people.

52:55Tim Miller:It's deeply, deeply unpopular. Maybe one quarter of the American people support this at all. I'm focused on what actually helps the United States of America and when Donald Trump sold himself as the America first president that he was going to make America great again. Joe Biden had our economy moving in the exact right direction. We were the envy of all of our pure nations. You're so full of crap. Donald Trump once again inherited. Ben, do you ever just let someone talk? Bring back Joe Biden. He was really helping the economy. You're insane. Yeah, we've in fact every message was doing in the right direction.

53:30Tim Miller:Ben, let's do some jobs numbers. Hey, Donald Trump, by the way, I'm saying it's still a crack.

53:36Piers Morgan:Let's be clear. We're not going back over Biden other than to say even Joe Biden can't remember whether he got things right or wrong. Joe Biden, I'm sorry.

53:47Tim Miller:Really, Pierce? Joe Biden, Joe Biden, I'm afraid.

53:51Piers Morgan:His economy sucks. I'm sorry to say this. You know it. Joe Biden was a zombie president for the last two years. And his economy was a disaster. And by the way, Jojo, the other point I make is the US economy is actually doing very well compared to most countries in the world. The problem Donald Trump has is that it's not filtering through to ordinary, hardworking people because inflation is still there. And inflation, as I explained to one of my guests the other day who wasn't too sure what it was, inflation means prices are still going up. Until you have no inflation, they go up. Yeah. So look, I've got to leave it there.

54:37Piers Morgan:And I found that interview with Mark Bolber. We've run out of time. But I think the point I would make is the US economy is actually doing well. And that is why I find this decision by Donald Trump extremely fascinating and very precarious. And we'll see how it plays out. But I think the midterms and Donald Trump's legacy hinge entirely on how this now plays out, this war on Iran. Thank you all to my panel very much. Thanks, Piers.

55:06Tim Miller:Thank you.

55:08Piers Morgan:Well, make sure you check out this week's episode of History Uncensored with Bianca Nobolo. She's put together a gripping account of Iran's remarkable history and how it will shape the success or failure of the war now raging today. History Uncensored, wherever you listen to podcasts and, of course, on YouTube via the link in our show notes. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain.

55:47Piers Morgan:And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.