“A War For SURVIVAL” Trump To Secure Putin Peace Deal? With Dave Smith & Bill Browder

25:25Who on earth can look back at this and say, we shouldn't have at least attempted to pursue a path where we would give him a security guarantee? And look, it's nice, as the Ukrainian lady here says, it's a nice thought to say that sovereign countries can do whatever they want to. But the bottom line is that is not the way of the world. Mexico cannot join a military alliance with China. That's a fact. And the general here will be the first to admit it. We wouldn't just go, oh, you're a sovereign country. Sure. You can be a part of Russia or China's military alliance. We wouldn't allow that in a second.

25:56And likewise, it is in the state of actual geopolitics. It was a reasonable demand for Vladimir Putin to say, you cannot bring Ukraine into your military alliance. And we should have put that in writing a long time ago. And I believe there's a very good chance that this war never would have happened.

26:15Piers Morgan:General Kimmett, do you agree with Dave Smith there? Well, I agree with parts of it. It's true that in return for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons after the fall of the wall, that the United States agreed that Ukraine would not be part OF NATO. IN FACT, WE SAID THAT WE WOULDN'T EXPAND NATO TO THE EAST. BUT ALL OF THOSE AGREEMENTS, OF COURSE, HAVE BEEN VIOLATED BY THE RUSSIANS AS WELL. I'D JUST KIND OF LIKE TO GO BACK TO WHAT I THOUGHT WAS THE RIGHT POINT, WHICH IS THE NOTION THAT THE RUSSIAN VIEW THAT THE WEST IS COMING TO TAKE OVER RUSSIA IS LAUGHABLE AND KAFKA-SK. I WAS IN GERMANY WHEN THE WALL FELL IN 1989, AND YOU COULDN'T DRIVE FROM WEST TO EAST BECAUSE OF ALL THE CARS COMING ACROSS FROM THE WARSAW PACT, THE WORKERS' PARADISE, THE SOVIET SOCIALIST REPUBLICS.

27:12PEOPLE WERE VOTING WITH THEIR FEET AND THEY WEREN'T VOTING TO GO EAST. I WAS ABLE TO GET INTO THE WARSAW PACT AND I 'VE BEEN INTO RUSSIA. MY QUESTION WOULD BE WHO THE HELL WOULD WANT TO TAKE OVER RUSSIA? IT'S A DECLINING NATION. THE AVERAGE LIFE EXPECTANCY IS GOING DOWN. THE STANDARD OF LIVING IS ONE HALF OF THAT OF THE WEST. You can say we're going for the oil, but Russia doesn't have enough oil for us to be interested in. It's as ludicrous as the United States desiring to take over Canada. At least Canada is a first world country. Russia is a gas station disguised as a country, and it's a country that's going into the trash can.

27:56So this predicate that Russia is doing this simply to keep the West out, well, I would remind everybody what NATO was formed for. It was to keep the Americans in, the Russians out, and the Germans down. But taking a look at what's happened to Russia since it became the workers' paradise, I'd say I wouldn't buy any real estate there. AND I DON'T THINK ANY COUNTRY WOULD WANT TO ATTACK RUSSIA BECAUSE THEY'D BE LEFT WITH THE OVERHANG OF TAKING OVER THAT DYING NATION.

28:28Piers Morgan:DONALD TRUMP SPEAKING TODAY AT THE WHITE HOUSE WAS ASKED ABOUT THE MEETING WITH PUTIN ON FRIDAY. HE SAID HE SEES IT AS A FEEL-OUT MEETING. HE SAID PUTIN WANTS TO GET INVOLVED. HE BELIEVES PUTIN WANTS TO GET THE WAR OVER WITH. HE SAID HE WILL TELL PUTIN YOU HAVE TO END THIS WAR. YOU HAVE TO END IT. BUT HE WON'T BE MAKING A DEAL BETWEEN RUSSIA AND UKRAINE, adding it's not up to me. And when asked if Zelensky would attend, he said he wasn't part of it. I would say he could go, but he's gone to a lot of meetings. He's been there for three and a half years and nothing happened. Trump said he'd probably better tell a deal will be made probably in the first two minutes of his meeting with Putin.

29:07So a lot there,

29:09Piers Morgan:but he clearly believes Putin wants peace. He thinks he'll get the feel out reading from Putin very quickly. AND HE DOESN'T THINK ZELENSKYY NEEDS TO BE THERE. WHAT DO YOU THINK? WELL, I THINK HE'S GOING TO BE AS DISAPPOINTED IN TALKING TO PRESIDENT PUTIN AS THE EARLY PROJECTIONS THAT HE MADE, SOMEWHAT OF THE OLD GEORGE BUSH. I LOOKED INTO HIS SOUL SPEECH. THE FACT REMAINS, THE WAR ASPIRATIONS OF PRESIDENT PUTIN HAVE NOT CHANGED. TAKE OVER PARTS OF UKRAINE, KEEP THEM OUT OF NATO, AND GET RID OF ZELENSKYY. AT NO TIME HAVE I EVER HEARD PRESIDENT PUTIN SAY ANYTHING BUT THAT. AND CORRESPONDINGLY WITH PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY, I 'VE HEARD HIM SAY NOTHING OTHER THAN A RETURN OF ALL OUR LANDS TO INCLUDE CRIMEA, RUSSIA PAID REPARATIONS.

30:03SO THOSE WAR AIMS ARE SO FAR APART THAT IF WE'RE ABLE TO GET EVEN A SEXESSION OF HOSTILITIES FOR 24 TO 48 HOURS, I WOULD CONSIDER THAT TO BE AN ACCOMPLISHMENT IN ALASKA, BUT I I don't think we're going to see that.

30:18Piers Morgan:Now, everybody knows how much I enjoy my tea, and I'm very happy to say that today's show is sponsored by Peaks Pure Fermented Teas. These are not your average brews. They're sourced from 250-year-old wild trees in the Himalayan foothills, which are untouched by modern farming. No pesticides, no fertilizers, just nature at its best. Pure delivers a full spectrum of prebiotics, probiotics and postbiotics, just like the fermented foods found in longevity hotspots. It comes in crystal form, so there's no messing around. Just dissolve, sip, and feel the difference. It's trusted by health experts, including Casey Means and Dr.

30:56Piers Morgan:Mark Hyman. There's teas for all occasions, and they all support your gut health, metabolism, and cellular renewal. The next time you put the kettle on, ask yourself, is my tea working as hard as me? Peaks Pure Fermented Teas for the gut of a Brit and the longevity of a Himalayan monk. Get 20 % off for life, plus a free frother and glass beaker with the Pure Bundle. Visit peaklife.com slash peers. That's peak, P-I-Q-U-E, life.com slash peers. Well, we have Andre back. Andre, I want to remind you of what General Kimmett said. Who the hell would want to attack and take over Russia? It's a dying country, a gas station disguised as a country.

31:44Piers Morgan:It's going into the trash can, and it doesn't have enough oil for us to be interested in. Your response, please. Well, thank you, General. That was a good joke. I think it was a long time since you've been to Russia or to any other country of the Soviet Union, because in the recent 30 years, a lot of change. But the fact that you guys all are discussing meeting of president of Russia and president of the United States means that Russia is not a trash country that's running into a trash can, but one of the most powerful countries in the world that is respected and feared. And this is how it is.

32:28And it always will be like that. So you need to deal with that. You need to deal with the fact that Russia is a strong sovereign state with its national interests, and we will defend our interests with all the means we have. And our means are broad and powerful. So that's it. I hope that the general understood my thought. My only response is I hear that same speech from the North Korean leader as well. Yes, well, and what have you done to North Korea recently? Nothing. We haven't done anything to it. That's a general. Just as we would not do anything to Russia. General, you didn't manage to do anything to Taliban in Afghanistan.

33:16So we are living in a world of declining United States. I respect this country, these people, but we are living in the world of declining unipolar world and globalization. and part of Americans understand it and understand that they have their own business. And other parts still think that a United States is the only global hegemon in the world. So it just, I mean, it's a matter of choice for you, all of you. But the world has changed a lot and you need to deal with that. We are not going back. We are defending our interests, our lands, our people, no matter what. And for Russia, for the second time, I'm saying this, it's a matter of survival.

33:57The fact remains is just because you're defending, which is your sovereign right, doesn't mean you need to be attacking and taking those sovereign rights away from other people in other lands. The thing is that people in Crimea and people in Donbass are our people. And that's not what people in Moscow say. That's what people of Donbass, Crimea and other parts of Novorossia are saying. That's the point.

34:33Piers Morgan:Checkmate. Next question. Let me bring in Bill Browder. Bill, I was going to ask you about what you think Putin's overarching motivation is here. And we'll come to that. But on that point that Andrei just made, There is a belief that's been put out there that many people in Crimea, many people in the Donbass would actually prefer to be Russian. What do you say to that? I don't think it's true at all. I think that in Crimea, when they had the referendum, you had all these soldiers go into, Russian soldiers go in and hold a referendum where people had a gun, literally a gun to their head. And so who's going to vote against that if you're going to be shot or imprisoned for wanting to be independent?

35:22I mean, you know, as the general said, you know, people aren't it's not like people from free countries are desperately trying to go to live in Russia in a totalitarian regime. Russians are all desperate to go to the West. As much as they can, they're leaving Russia and trying to emigrate to free countries and to countries with good economics and to try to get out of Russia. A million able-bodied Russian young men left when the war started because they didn't want to be cannon fodder. It's it's the major sanction against Russian oligarchs is that they couldn't enjoy the West because they like to steal money in Russia and then spend it in San Tropez and Sardinia in Italy.

36:14Russia doesn't doesn't have a good offering for people. It's a totalitarian state. I mean, I feel sorry for this individual here. I don't know what's motivating him for saying all this stuff. but it certainly isn't the truth. He's saying a bunch of propaganda stuff. Maybe he's being paid or maybe he's just scared. And I know a lot of people in Russia who have criticized the war and found themselves in prison. You're not allowed to even say anything about it. If you have a different point of view, you go to jail. How is that a country that anyone would want to live in?

36:50Piers Morgan:and bill just on that bigger point about the overarching ambitions of putin what what do you think he really wants it's very clear to me and i i've i've lived in russia for for a long time and i've been at war with putin on a personal basis for a long time and i know this i know this individual i know what he what he's motivated by and and he's been running a kleptocracy in which he and about a thousand other individuals have stolen a trillion dollars from the Russian state. And you can't do that in a country with 140 million people and expect the people to put up with it. And he basically stole too much money.

37:30And what he's worried about now is the people of Russia rising up against him. And so if you're a dictator and you're worried about your people rising up against you, what do you do? You find a foreign enemy and you start a war. And this is straight out of Machiavelli 101, that this war is not about NATO, it's not about being surrounded, it's not about expanding any empire. It's about a little man, Vladimir Putin, who's desperately scared of his own people, desperately scared of losing power and getting strung up by and a lamppost. And the best way of avoiding that is to create a foreign enemy and start a war.

38:08And that's what this war in Ukraine is all about. And that's why Putin is not going to give up this war. And that's why another million Russian young men are going to die. And it doesn't matter what happens in Alaska, because Putin doesn't want to end the war, because he understands if the war ends, then he loses his job and he dies. And he doesn't want to die.

38:29Piers Morgan:You know, Dave Smith, in a way, you could paint a similar picture without the death part about Netanyahu and what's happening in Israel. One of the reasons many people believe he continues to prosecute this war in Gaza is for self-interest, to avoid corruption, charges and trial when it's over, to avoid accountability for October 7th and so on. But in relation to Putin, do you agree with what Bill Broward said there? No, not particularly. And yeah, I don't think that's, yeah, it applies to Netanyahu. It applies to Vladimir Putin. George W. Bush famously said that his daddy's big mistake was not keeping the war going for his reelection campaign.

39:10And that's why he was a one-term president. And I just, I got to say, Pierce, I mean, it's like, I'm just kind of disgusted by the tone of this entire discussion. I mean, it's like as if we're debating Sidney Sweeney or something like that. but I got a general and a professional here who are, what are we doing? You're just trying to insult Vladimir Putin, insult Russia. It's like the most childish, immature, just taunting. There's an actual war going on right now where hundreds of thousands of people have been dying. And there's a meeting coming up between the two leaders of the United States and Russia.

39:43As I said before, 90 % of the world's stockpile of nuclear weapons. Let's all take this down a notch. Vladimir Putin has at least signaled recently that he will maybe is open to the idea of keeping the Donbass region, Donetsk and Luhansk, of getting a corridor to Crimea and of leaving some of the other territory. Why are we not all pushing in that direction? And why this constant need to make these insults? You know, like, I don't know. I'm an American. I don't see why I inherently have to have beef with the Russian people. I think my government is corrupt. I think their government is corrupt.

40:19But to sit here and be like, you guys are a gas station with nothing. The Russian people have a great culture and a great history. Obviously, the Soviet Union was a menace and we had a real problem with them. But the Soviet Union has been gone for many decades at this point. And I just find that the kind of nature of this just insulting back and forth to be beneath the magnitude of this conversation. It is undeniable that the West did a lot to provoke this conflict. It's just undeniable. Our CIA director, through all of Joe Biden's term, Bill Burns, was the one who wrote the Nyet means Nyet memo, who warned Condoleezza Rice, do not keep pushing in this direction.

40:55And we continued pushing regardless. It's resulted in this catastrophe. Like I said before, Pierce, I'm not absolving Vladimir Putin of any responsibility. He launched this war, and he's responsible for the destruction. But for God's sake, Pierce, you start this at the beginning, asking, like, but what's the actual plan? Like, what's the military plan for how you can evict the Russians? Nobody here has anything. So what do you want to do? Let's try to negotiate an end to this so people stop dying. It is the best case scenario. And it's our only chance to get out of this at this point is if we can work out some deal.

41:28So for God's sake, let's try to push toward that. With all of these wars, Pierce, you know, all the wars over the last 25 years of my life, it's always like the propaganda keeps on moving and moving and moving. There's a lot of bluster about who the good guys and who the bad guys are. But when you start the program by asking a simple question like, what is the exit strategy here? What is the plan? No one really has anything. No one has anything other than maybe we could keep sending weapons and money in and this slow grind of people dying will continue. And Vladimir Putin will then at the end of that take the territory he wants.

42:03Let's try to negotiate an end to this nightmare that never needed to happen. Yeah, that's exactly what Neville Chamberlain did. I'll come to. Shut up. Just the dumbest. Like, what are you? ADIQ Neville Chamberlain. That's right. Appeasement. Anybody ever arguing against war is always Neville Chamberlain. That is the one and only lesson of history, that appeasement never works and aggression is always right. Why don't you take some of the lessons from the world? Appeasement doesn't work with a dictator. You obviously don't know Vladimir Putin. appeasement we appease dictators all over the planet right now you're i just said something that i actually meant that i think was more than just surface level and your response is with a is with the the dumbest like slogan we appease dictators all over the world we overthrow democratically elected governments and prop up dictators what are you even talking about you're using all these ad hominem attacks but but basically we're at hominem what are you talking about 80 80 iq that's a bunch of nonsense you obviously don't know the issues your argument i'm saying the argument is that of a person with an 80.

43:07you don't know that you don't know the issues you obviously are not educated on the issues the the reason why vladimir putin is at war is for his own personal survival he's not going to stack off from this war to to to then appease him at this moment to give him ukraine is just a you're not giving him you're not giving him anything it's not yours to give he took it and you can't get it back deal with that reality sorry you could impose crippling sanctions on him you could give the ukrainians sanctions and and then you could negotiate from a position of strength you don't negotiate from a position of weakness which is what's being there's joe biden there's joe biden's plan he could we could end the war you don't have to call it joe biden's anything you don't have to politicize logic.

43:58I'm not politicizing anything. You're saying Joe Biden is Joe Biden now. Yeah, yeah. Yes, he was, I'm not sure if you're familiar, he was the former president of the United States, and this was his plan. We ran this experiment. It did not work. It led to hundreds of thousands of people more dying, and now we're here. The experiment that we ran is to give the Ukrainians weapons. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Fair enough. Can I, the general quick question because yeah one second general you hear you you're more of an expert in this than me sanctions can drive putin out are you going to back that up with your name behind it sanctions can reclaim all ukrainian territory no i mean i've been a disbeliever in the notion of sanctions around the world whether it's in iran thank you whether it was with the THE FEDERAL TALYBAN, BUT COMBINED WITH OTHER ELEMENTS SUCH AS MILITARY POWER, DIPLOMATIC POWER, THERE IS A CHANCE THAT IS A COMPONENT OF A PLAN, YOU MIGHT GET TO SOMETHING WHERE YOU SAY NOBODY HAS GOT A PROPOSAL HERE.

45:01I THINK WHAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE IS A FROZEN CONFLICT. AND LET'S BE VERY CLEAR, YOU GOT A FROZEN CONFLICT IN KASHMIR. FOR YEARS YOU HAD A FROZEN CONFLICT IN NAGARNA-KARBAH. AND NOW THERE'S BEEN A resolution to that frozen conflict and hopefully we can see at least a ceasefire that can hold off the killing of both brave Ukrainian soldiers and brave Russian soldiers. I never did insult the Russian people. I insulted the Russian government. The fact is their government has drugged them into A WAR THAT IF PULLED PROBABLY WOULDN'T PULL THAT WELL. BUT BACK TO YOUR POINT, SANCTIONS PROBABLY WON'T WORK IF THAT'S THE ONLY TRICK WE HAVE IN OUR BAG.

45:48MILITARY POWER THAT DEMONSTRATES WE'RE WILLING TO BACK THE UKRAINIANS FOR AS LONG AS IT TAKES WITH WHAT THEY NEED AS WELL AS OTHER ELEMENTS OF NATIONAL POWER. THAT HAS A CHANCE, NUMBER ONE, TO STOP THE WAR. NUMBER TWO, PERHAPS GET IT INTO A CEASE-FIRE-SLASH-FROZEN CONFLICT. And number three, over time, perhaps negotiate a settlement that works for both sides. I think that time is now, sir. And I think that's hopefully what they can do.

46:17Piers Morgan:I'm going to give... Well, let's see what happens. I agree with you. I hope it can be done. Anna, final word to you. Thank you so much. You know, here in Ukraine, we understand that any frozen conflict will not bring us lasting peace. We were at war with Russia, be it Soviet Union or Russian Empire, for 300 years. So every time someone says this is a NATO-provoked U.S.-provoked conflict, no one in Ukraine buys that. Another important point I don't hear others mentioning is that Russia is perhaps the weakest ever at this point. And Vladimir Putin is way more far away from the purposes, the tasks of his special military operation than he was in 2022.

47:05He wanted to demilitarize Ukraine. Now we are pretty militarized and also a lot of facilities, military facilities are built inside Ukraine. And I hope a time will come when we will use our ballistic missiles without asking a permission or getting some restrictions on targeting Russian oil refineries, which is super in fact. Also, back in 2022, Russia controlled not just more of the Ukrainian territory, but actually more of the Russian territory. This war exposed that Putin's blaze creek failed, and his intelligence perhaps informed him really bad about the attitude inside Ukraine. Then we demonstrated that Russia has super vulnerable borders and their intelligence is not working properly.

47:51Russia is now literally a no-fly zone. First of all, because of the Ukrainian drones targeting legitimate military facilities and other stuff, and they literally closed their airports. There are explosions, air raid alerts in dozens of the Russian regions. When did it start? After Putin decided he will defend Russia this way. So literally all of his plans collapsed. And moreover, former satellites of Russia, countries like Armenia, like Kazakhstan, they realized what threats Russia imposes for their sovereignty and independence, and they actually started going away from Russia. That's exactly what we witness right now.

48:34Nobody from the former Soviet countries that Putin can consider as the future zones for his attacks consider him strong enough. And right now they are actually for other alliances and unions because Russia has already lost the control over Syria. Russia did not manage to help Iran. Russia has serious problems with oil refineries. Don't you think they want to protect them? But every night we have them exploding with inexpensive inside Ukraine developed drones. And I do agree when many of you compare this moment and this meeting to a meeting between Chamberlain and Hitler with one very, very important difference.

49:17Ukraine is no more a Czechoslovakia in 1938. During this three and a half years, we became way stronger. And despite Russian propaganda during this year and a half of summer offensive, Russia managed to get 1 % of the Ukrainian territory and lose how many hundreds and thousands of Russians. And trust me, the presence of North Korean soldiers on the front lines is not a sign of success. The fact that up to 60 % of missiles they now target on Ukraine from North Korea is not a sign of strength.

49:53Piers Morgan:Okay, Anna, thank you very much indeed. We lost Andre. I don't know whether he left voluntarily or through tech issues, but he departed. Thank you to my panel, an excellent debate, and it's going to be a fascinating summit. I suspect Trump's right. We'll know in the first two minutes the way it's going to go, but I will look forward to it with hope. Hope in my heart that this horrible war can come to an end sooner rather than later. Thank you all very much. Thanks, Pierce. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing.

50:30Piers Morgan:Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent Uncensored Media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.

50:51Thank you.