“Anti-Muslim BIGOT!” Mehdi Hasan vs Steve Hilton + Ex Tate Staffer EXCLUSIVE

23:50And so now we are working with them and they are part of the campaign. And they're supporting the general message. And that's what that message is, that we've had enough of all the nonsense in California and the high cost of living. The creative expression of that is in their hands. But I agree with you. I thought that was very effective.

24:10Piers Morgan:OK, Mehdi, the latest Polymarket numbers on Steve is a$40 million market on Polymarket, which is big. They've historically been as accurate, if not more, than opinion polls, and they currently have Steve's opponent with a 93 % probability of victory, and him just with seventh. So, notwithstanding the gladiator memes, he's got it all to do in what is, you know, historically a difficult state for a Republican to win, obviously. But, you know, to Steve's point there, is it credible to you to be the Republican nominee in one of the biggest states, in the fifth largest economy in the world, and basically say, look, I know that bloke in the White House, you didn't say this, but you may as well have done.

24:58Piers Morgan:I know that bloke's a bit mad in the White House and you may hate him and think, as you do, Medhi, that he's a fascist and so on and so on, but vote for me anyway. Well, it's actually the fourth biggest economy in the world now under Gavin Newsom's watch. Steve should be very happy to be living in the fourth biggest economy. It's grown recently under democratic control, I should add there. I'm a Muslim, so I don't bet. But I think it's fair to say Steve is not going to win this election unless something amazing or dramatic happens in his favor in the coming months. I feel sorry for Steve because he, like me, moved to the U.S., became a citizen like me, has done very well in the media industry here.

25:34But he decided to run for office, unlike me. and he's decided to run for office in California, where he is trailing by 25 points in the polls. And as you say, the odds are against him. Now, I don't buy that you can disconnect yourself from Trump in a place like California, where I think Trump has an even lower approval rating than he does nationally, something like 30%. Steve, I've watched a lot of Steve interviews, and Steve often cites that 60 % of Californians want a change in direction. They think California's going in the wrong direction. What he doesn't mention is in that same poll, Californians say the country is going in the wrong direction at even higher numbers.

26:05And that's the bigger point. Gas prices, for example. Clearly, California has an issue with higher gas prices than the rest of the country. I'm not going to deny that. But the reality is nationwide gas prices are up because of Donald Trump and his ridiculous war in Iran, and everyone knows that. So Steve is stuck in that way. And I think the big problem for Steve, of course, is which Steve is running for office. And I think you put your finger on it there, Piers, by pointing out trying to do this dance where he's like, well, you know, I am also Trump and I'm endorsed by Trump, but I'm also not Trump and I'm also different to Trump.

26:35And I think people are going to have to work out which Steve Hilton is running for governor of Canada. I knew Steve, as you did, Piers, 10, 15 years ago, came on my radar, 20 years ago even, as the compassionate conservative, the moderate conservative, the guy who got the Conservative Party to take climate change seriously, took David Cameron to the Arctic to take pictures with the Huskies, changed the Tory party motto to a tree. Is it that Steve Hilton, or is it Steve Hilton now who talks about radical green agenda, climate lunatics, supports a president who says climate change is a Chinese hoax?

27:04I listened to Steve Hilton attack lunatic neocons for starting endless wars in the Middle East. Now we have Steve Hilton who says the Iran war is great, defends Donald Trump, thinks Iran is, you know, the right thing to do. So I think people have to really work out which Steve Hilton are they voting for in California because I'm not sure we're sure.

27:24Piers Morgan:Well, Steve, maybe you could enlighten us. Let's talk about Iran because obviously things like energy prices right now globally, but especially in a state like California, They're ragingly high as a direct consequence of a decision taken by your ultimate leader, Donald Trump, in the White House. I said at the time it began this war, I thought it was a folly. I thought it could end up being a legacy-defining folly. I didn't think it could end in anything but where we found ourselves now as a quagmire, which, if anything, I think has emboldened the Iranian regime, far from dismantling it. They've discovered that by running a little strait of water, they can hold the entire world's energy as a sort of ransom.

28:11Piers Morgan:And by firing off missiles at their Gulf state neighbours, they're causing enormous damage to the business models of their neighbours, too. So this, to me, objectively looks like it's going extremely badly. Would you defend what's happened here with this war? Well, look, I try and avoid talking about things. I'm running for a particular job now, and I'm focused on the job at hand rather than having opinions on absolutely everything. But I act just on the gas prices point. It is obviously the case that gas prices are higher across the country, causing a lot of frustration. But it's also the case that they're even higher in California.

28:51In fact, if you just look at the numbers, just the prices, the effect of Democrat policies on gas prices in California is about double the effect of the Iran war. But you're right that, Ahmed is right, that at the outset of this, really driven a lot by, you know, my future constituents, as I hope them to be, very strong Iranian-American community, particularly in Los Angeles, there was real excitement about what was happening and the prospect of finally overthrowing this brutal authoritarian regime. And so absolutely at that time, I did express a hope that this would help overthrow that regime.

29:30Of course, that's a different argument than the one that was being made and is being made now about nuclear weapons. That's obviously the initiating factor here. But a lot of that, by the way, was driven by my background. My parents are Hungarian, both my parents, and there's a really strong feeling among Hungarians. There was a very similar situation, 1956, the biggest state in Hungarian history, where there was a student revolution against the puppet regime that the Soviets put in there. It actually started in our hometown with students. And there was this hope that the West, either America or someone, would come in and help them.

30:07And there's this phrase that you hear from Hungarians the whole time, nobody came to help us. The Soviet tanks rolled in and crushed the revolution and ended up with another few decades of communist rule and so there's there's there's a human aspect to it i think that also i was expressing at the time i remember very clearly i spoke to uh a big big crowd in the bit in the san francisco bay area in nurus it was the last day of of persian new year and there was just this real sense of optimism that this would go in the right way but i haven't really i don't know exactly what's going on that's not my focus so i'm not commenting on every move in the war steve come

30:46Piers Morgan:Well, hang on. A couple of weeks ago. Manny, it's OK. I've got it. Manny, I've got it. Wait. I'll let you come in. You say you don't want to get involved, Steve, but you did, when it started, post on your ex-account, Trump and Iran, at home we understand the importance of strength, deterrence and accountability when it comes to crime. It's the same principle internationally. I mean, my point to you would be, very interestingly, you were clearly under the impression the original aim was regime change, as a lot of people were, because that was the music coming out of the White House. Very quickly, when that looked like it was not going to happen, because the ILGC remained in tight control of the country, the people weren't uprising at all, the Ayatollah had been killed, but his son took over, who apparently is even more hardline, and you had the asymmetric stuff going on with Stradivit Hormuz and the Gulf state neighbours and so on.

31:40Piers Morgan:When you put it all together, this is my problem with this war. I think that originally that probably was the aim. But very quickly they realised this isn't happening. And to the Iranian people you've told, I'm in Los Angeles now, and I've spoken to a lot of Iranians who live here, and there was a genuine feeling of hope that there might be a chance to finally get rid of this regime. But that evaporated very quickly. And I bet if you went and talked to the same people that you were just alluding to, they would all feel incredibly disheartened that actually, far from getting rid of this regime, I honestly believe they've got more leverage now and feel more emboldened, particularly given the constant posting by President Trump of we're going to annihilate you one minute.

32:23Piers Morgan:We'll do a deal the next. I can work with these people. They're all crazy lunatics. The constant contradictory posting about this, I think, has led them to conclude he's, you know, he's the emperor with no clothes. He's the boy that cried wolf. That's not good for the United States. It's not good for anybody. It just means that this regime now, I think, have got their gander up and feel emboldened. Yeah, but it's also not over. I mean, we're in the middle of it, and I think that sense of hope is still there among some people, and I certainly feel it. But as I say, I'm just not focused on, because I don't have the information, on what is going on day by day.

33:03But I still have that sense of optimism because it's something that I think was...

33:10Piers Morgan:Yeah, I do. I say do you. I say do you. Well, I'm slightly incredulous on two points. One, that you want to be governor of this gigantic state but have no idea what's happening with the biggest news story in the world on a daily basis. And secondly, that you've got hope this is all going to end well. I'd find that slightly impossible. I have no influence over it. You wanted to jump in. No, I just want to say, Pierce, to your point, I don't have any influence over it. I'm focused on the job I'm applying for, and that really has nothing to do with that. That's my point. A couple of things to respond to Steve.

33:44A couple of things. I think he said three or four times, I'm focused on the job in California. I mean, Steve Hilton was on Fox Business, Steve. You were on Fox Business two weeks ago. I watched it. You were on Fox Business talking specifically about Iran, defending Donald Trump's Iran war strategy. You didn't go on Fox Business and say to them what you said to peers just now. You didn't say, I'm focused on California, I don't want to talk about Iran. You've mounted a very vociferous defense of Donald Trump's Iran war strategy. You said Iran will collapse or come to their senses. So you were a big defender of the Iran war two weeks ago.

34:12That's exactly what I just said. Not three, four months ago. But don't say that you're not focused on Iran. You literally want to talk about Iran. I think the point is...

34:19Piers Morgan:So let me just finish my other point. Let me just finish my other point. On Iran and the people of Iran, of course we all want the people of Iran to be free, to be secure, to have dignity, to have human rights. But you're supporting a president who, a couple of months ago, threatened genocide against Iran. He said, I'm going to destroy the entire civilization tonight. Did you condemn him for that? In fact, in the last few days, he said, any time Iran attacks a ship in the Strait of Hormuz, I will blow up a power plant or a bridge. That is a war crime, Steve. You can't just blow up power plants and bridges, civilian targets, because you don't like the opponent's strategy.

34:50That's against all the laws of war. So will you condemn Donald Trump for doing that? If you actually care about the Iranian people, why would you support a war that targets civilian infrastructure? Those are war crimes. So the point I was just simply making, and is a consistent one, which is that as at the start of this, all the way through and now hope, as you do, that it will end with the removal of a regime that has brutally terrorised its people. As to the day-by-day operational conduct and the communication around that conduct, obviously that's nothing that is to do with the role of the governor of California, which is 100 % my focus.

35:32So that's what I mean.

35:33Piers Morgan:It will be, but Steve, my point on that would be that I don't think the two are completely disconnected in the way you would maybe like us to think. I mean, apart from anything else, energy prices can determine whether the next governor of California has a good first couple of years or a very difficult first couple of years. And so this does have direct impact, unquestionably. And also, this could get a lot worse before it gets better. People like Ben Shapiro, big influences in the conservative movement, have been saying things like this. Let's take a look. I get why people are confused and upset.

36:11It feels like things are stalemated, that they're getting broader and more difficult. Why? Well, because what the American people want is victory. There's this bizarre notion in foreign policy that the American people are deeply worried about the immediate cost of war to the enemy. That the American people, that we can't handle the ugliness of war for even a day, that every conflict has to be totally antiseptic. And here I'm not even talking about the American willingness to undergo casualties. No one in America wants American casualties. It's a tragedy and a horror. We do understand that war does come along with casualties, and we are willing to undergo those casualties in pursuit of an end and a victory for America.

36:53What the fuck?

36:56Piers Morgan:Now, Tucker Carlson, who, you know, at one point was wedded ideologically with Shapiro and pretty much everyone on the right about things like this, said this by way of response. Obviously, this little freak, Shapiro, could go volunteer to fight the war himself, but of course he won't. He's got no interest in making any kind of personal sacrifice. None of them do. Israel's finance minister bragged up a day that having American soldiers fight Netanyahu's wars is the best for us. Smotrich doesn't want to die for Israel. Neither does Ben Shapiro. Dying for Israel is your job. There is, as you know now, a massive debate raging around Donald Trump about whether to get out of this and take what would be a pretty humiliating loss or to double, treble, quadruple down and really go hard into Iran, possibly with ground forces.

37:43Piers Morgan:I don't think you can want to be governor of California and not have a view about which of those two things would ultimately be good for the many millions who live in this state? Of course I don't have a view on that, that I'm putting here as part of my campaign for governor. I've got views on lots of things, Beard, but I'm not paid to have opinions. I'm running for a job. I'm applying for a job. Now, you mentioned energy prices. It's absolutely right. As I said earlier, that's a huge issue. It's the driving reason everything is so expensive in California. But just the other week, we filled up our campaign truck in L.A., 6.49.

38:22We went to Texas for a couple of events. The next day, 3.49. The Iran war is going on in a world where both of those things are true. Our electric bills in California are more than double the national average. That's a result of the climate posturing of the government in California. It's not doing anything for the climate. It's not helping the environment. What it is, is massively increasing costs for working people and small businesses in California. That's what I'm focused on. We can lower gas prices. My pledge is$3 gas. We can cut electric bills in half in California by changing our policies here.

38:59Nothing to do with the Iran war, nothing to do with federal policy. I think one of the problems is that actually, even though we have this constitution that has this beautiful idea of federalism and decentralized power, which I strongly support, The political conversations early in California revolves around national politics when we've got the power to change what happens for daily life here in California right here. And that is 100 percent what I'm focused on.

39:29Piers Morgan:OK, Mehdi, I just want to slightly switch to something that is still involved in all this. the Elon Musk interview, which came out at the weekend with Zannie Minton-Bedos from The Economist, editor-in-chief there. A lot of news lines were made from this, some about AI and so on and so on. But there was a clip of him talking about Muslims. I wanted to play to you, given you're a Muslim. Are you anti-Muslim? I am... I'm against...

40:04having, if people are coming to a country with antithetical views, I am against that. I'm against that, you know, I'm against,

40:22I'm against rape and murder. I'm against the imposition of rules and laws that are contrary to what we've come to accept in the West.

40:43Piers Morgan:Now, there's a lot of fallout to that, not least because, as he was saying this, new numbers came out which show that the murder rate in England has dropped to its lowest in 50 years. So this idea, which people like Elon seem to have convinced themselves have been correct, which is that, you know, our motherland is being run over, particularly by Muslims who are raping, pillaging and murdering everybody, is not borne out by statistical evidence. So there's that. Now, Zannie Mintz and Beddoes, that has said on NBC, it's irresponsible for someone, 240 million followers, Elon, to propagate things that are simply not true.

41:22Piers Morgan:and he responded to that huge number of his followers by saying she is a traitor to the West, plain and simple. I mean, that is strong stuff, isn't it? What did you make of all this? I mean, that's an understatement, but it's not strong stuff. It's outrageous, ridiculous, dangerous stuff. He knows perfectly well that he's putting a target on our back. When Elon Musk attacks people, and I've been attacked by him, you know what happens with his followers. He has a very cultish following like Trump does. It's very dangerous, and it's a ridiculous response, by the way. more than the news lines from that economist interview was Musk himself and how he handled it.

41:55I think the aftermath and the fallout from the interview is more interesting than the interview because this is the world's richest man who claims to be for free speech, claims to be for debate. But anytime he gets even the mildest of questions, he has a total meltdown. First of all, he rarely does interviews. I know he hasn't done an interview with you. You've been desperate to get one. He doesn't do tough interviews. He melts down when he gets semi-tough questions. Do you remember when Don Lemon interviewed him in 2024? He almost started crying during the interview and then canceled Don Lemon's show as a punishment.

42:20for Don asking him questions about his drug use. And now you have The Economist, very sober, mainstream, centrist publication, not woke left at all, as he might say. And he calls this woman, the editor of The Economist, a traitor, simply for pointing out that he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to British and London crime stats. The three of us are Brits. Two of us are British Americans. We all know here in the US, I'm sure Steve gets asked by Republicans, oh, Britain, it's a hellscape, isn't it? And it's not a hellscape, as we all know. And it's ridiculous that he pushes this bullshit.

42:49And on the Muslim line, Thank you, Zannie Minton Beddoes. Too many journalists ignore the anti-Muslim rhetoric at the heart of the Musk movement and support for the far right. This is a man who funds Tommy Robinson, who supported Rupert Lowe, two of the most anti-Muslim voices in the UK, if not the West. And when he's asked this straight question, are you anti-Muslim, all he has to say is, no, I'm not. All he has to say was, I'm against anti-Muslim prejudice. All he has to say was, oh, I'm against criminals. I'm against extremists. That's all he had to say, Piers. But he couldn't do it. Instead, he says, I'm against people who have antithetical views coming into this country.

43:23I'm against rape and murder, suggesting Muslims are all guilty of rape and murder. Can you imagine if somebody asked Elon Musk or anyone prominent, are you anti-Jewish? And they didn't just say, no. They said, well, I'm against people with different views. I'm against rape and murder. It's an outrageously bigoted thing to say by the richest man in the world. I'm glad she asked it. I'm sad that not enough journalists have followed up on that fact. That Elon Musk, the top donor to the Republican Party and Donald Trump, the richest man in the world, the owner of one of the most influential messaging platforms, is an anti-Muslim bigot.

43:51And that's not me calling him that. That's him embracing it.

43:56Piers Morgan:Steve Hilton, what did you make of that? I mean, look, you know Britain as well as I do. This weird narrative that Elon and many on the right in America seem to have developed, that we're getting literally invaded and overrun by Muslims. You know that's not true. What do you say to people when they say this to you? so it's interesting i i hadn't actually seen that clip i was aware of the interview i hadn't really followed it but yes um i think that this is a there's a characterization that actually misses the real problem with with with what's going on in the uk i think obviously i have an interest in that don't follow it closely but there's something i say on the campaign trail actually which is um uh that i don't want this state that i love to turn into the country i left But what I mean by that is what you're seeing, I think, there was a report that someone sent to me, one of the biggest figures in business in California sent me a research report on what's going on in the UK economically with the inability to build housing, the inability to improve energy infrastructure, the cost of everything, the bloat and bureaucracy and hassle of doing anything in the UK, which I think has produced, I mean, you'll know, in more detail, Peers, but a sense of an economic stagnation that probably is a really big part of why you get all this kind of sentiment.

45:25People are just frustrated with what's going on. And this person sent me that report and said, remind you of anywhere. And it does, because that's the way we're heading in California, with this bloated bureaucratic government that's making it impossible to do anything. And so in that sense, I think that's the real point, I think. Can I ask a question of Steve? just on this subject. In May, there was an attack on a mosque in San Diego. Three Muslims were murdered. It could have been 100 Muslim school kids murdered in a school nearby. It was two neo-Nazi white supremacists. In the past, you've been very vocal in condemning white nationalist terror.

46:00I remember you condemned the attack on the mosque in New Zealand back in 2019. This time, you're running for governor of California. Massive terrorist attack against Muslims in your state. I didn't hear a word from you. I tried to look up what you said about it. I couldn't find a single No, I was there that day, actually. I was actually there. I was very close by when it happened. And we went and spoke to local community leaders. Now, you may not have seen anything. We had a town hall that day, and I spoke about it. I was actually right there. Okay, good, because there's not a single post from you about it that I could find.

46:31So I'm glad to hear that. Yeah, I mean, perhaps. I don't necessarily kind of express every thought on everything all the time, But I definitely agree with you. I mean, that's completely unacceptable. And I was there and said so in that community on that day.

46:50Piers Morgan:Mehdi, I just want to ask you very quickly, Netanyahu's due at the White House tomorrow. What should happen here? I mean, Mamdani, the mayor of New York, wants him arrested, but acknowledges he doesn't have the power to do that. What do you think should happen? What's the appropriate response to Netanyahu visiting the United States for the first time in months? First time in months, but of course, as you've pointed out on this show, Azaf Hai, I think he came about eight times in the run-up to the Iran war, didn't he? He was the world leader who had visited the US most to make the case, including in the Situation Room.

47:23So let's hope he's not here to start another new war or new escalation. Who knows? We've got this Lindsey Graham recording that's out, that CNN and the Wall Street Journal have got from a documentary about Graham, where he's talking on the phone with Netanyahu and they're discussing pressuring Trump on war. It's a very bizarre conversation to see a United States senator on a phone call with the prime minister of a foreign country discussing how they're going to pressure a president on foreign policy. I think his role in American politics is malign. I think a lot of Republicans understand that.

47:48Did you see the poll, Piers, that a plurality of Americans would like to see Netanyahu arrested, including one in three Republicans? So interestingly enough, Mandani actually speaks for more Americans than his critics do. There's also a poll showing that American Jews who's preferred Zoran Mamdani to both Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu. So a lot of the noise doesn't really reflect public opinion. The mayor is right. He can't arrest Netanyahu. He first made that pledge in an interview with me in December 2024. I think he knew he couldn't do it, but it was an aspiration. Look, the ground has moved, Piers.

48:17It doesn't matter whether you want to arrest him or not. Look at the polling. People are anti what this Israeli government is doing, rightly so. They're anti-Netanyahu. Unfortunately, the opposition in Israel is just as bad as Netanyahu. who, even if he loses the elections this year, the next guy coming in, Naftali Bennett, or whoever it is, is equally hawkish, equally genocidal. I think the bigger question is, American government going forward, what will our relationship be like with Israel? We're, you know, we're quote-unquote integrating our militaries, which a lot of people don't want, but it's happening in Congress.

48:44There's a massive disconnect between Congress, which remains super pro-Israel, and the American public, which no longer is. And I think that is a real democratic dysfunction if our people's representatives cannot reflect the will of the people on this very important foreign policy issue.

49:00Piers Morgan:Steve Hilton, do you think there are legitimate claims that Benjamin Netanyahu and this Israeli government have committed war crimes? Well, look, I thought that the characterisation of what happened after October 7th as a genocide was just offensive and ridiculous. And I said so very clearly. I think that if you look at the situation now, I totally understand the difference between having legitimate criticism of the actions of the Israeli government and being anti-Semitic. Of course, there's a difference there. However, the volume and the intensity of the criticism of Netanyahu and Israel and so on has given rise to a massive wave of anti-Jewish hate in America.

49:47And what I see here in California was just not long ago at UCLA campus at the Hillel Center. We spent half a day there just hearing the stories of students at UCLA, high school students in the Los Angeles area, who are frightened to reveal their faith, who are shut down from having faith-based activities in their high school by the principal. Something really dark is going on, and I think we have to be honest about that and confront it. While having perfectly reasonable, legitimate criticism of the actions of Israel, of course that's true. But we can't ignore the fact. What are your criticisms?

50:26But you're not saying what yours are. Something is happening. Do you think there are war crimes in Gaza, as every human rights group says? I'm focused on the fact that you've got teenagers in California who don't want to wear a Star of David necklace to school because they fear reprisals. That's completely unacceptable. in any country, let alone California and America. That's what I'm concerned about.

50:50Piers Morgan:Steve, I want to just end with you. I'll play you a clip of Donald Trump at the White House Correspondence, in which he announced a major scoop. Let's take a look. That's why tonight, to show just how much I care about the press, and I want to save your ratings. I'm pleased to announce my intention to, and this is somewhat of a scoop, my intention to run for a fourth term as President of the United States. I will be doing that. I will be having an official. In fact, I think I have. Yeah. I won three times. Now I'm going to do it again.

51:42Piers Morgan:Well, Steve, I guess two questions. One, he says he's won three times. Do you agree with him that he's won three times and not twice? And secondly, should he be allowed to run again? The answer to both of... Well, the answer to the first one is no. I've said that clearly. Biden won in 2020. But the answer to the second one is also no, not because whether he should or shouldn't, it's in the Constitution. But he's trolling and having a joke with people, and that's what that event is all about. Steve Hilton, really good to have you on, Senator. I've got to say, a lot of people ridiculed you when you launched your campaign to be governor of California.

52:25Piers Morgan:What does this Brit think he's doing coming over here? You've done a very good job, I've got to say. I've been very impressed. You've run a great campaign. I don't think you're going to win the way the polls are looking. but I take my hat off to you. It's been impressive to watch. Mehdi, always good to have you on Uncensored. Thanks. Thank you, Piers. Good to be with you. Joining me now is Mateo Petrescu, who served as the Head of Communications and official spokesperson for Andrew and Tristan Tate when they were in Romania. This is her first television interview since the new charges were announced which will result in their extradition to the UK.

53:00Piers Morgan:Well, welcome to Uncensored. Hello, Piers. Thank you for having me. so that you've spent three years as the kind of spokeswoman for the tates it was notable because you were the only sort of high profile woman in their team and you defended them vociferously for all that period of time now you've turned on them what was it that changed your mind what made you realize in your eyes that you were wrong first of all i wouldn't say i've turned on them i have simply left i have no desire to turn on anyone um there were different reasons for my leaving uh and defending them or defending their public image i think would be a better use of words uh was my job so now i have left the job i'm no longer um i don't longer have to do that i no not here to defend or to accuse them.

54:07Piers Morgan:Right, but why would you go from being so keen to defend them for three years to suddenly not wanting to defend them at all? What happened? There were a few reasons, you know, like in any good divorce. The decision started last year in 2025, in March, I believe. That's when I kind of took the decision. It was a long process, as I said, like with any good divorce. It takes a while until you part the goods and then you figure out what you want to do um there were a few reasons first of all andrew became more and more unhinged it was very difficult he became very difficult to counsel um i would have to do or put out press releases or put out communication in in their name and on their behalf and only to be contradicted by their tweets or things that they would put out on their socials um so it became very difficult to manage.

54:57It was very well throughout the first two years, the relationship was quite close. And there was a lot of communication and a lot of back and forth and a lot of strategy making that wasn't happening in the past year. So I felt that my role became quite redundant, first of all, and I felt like my job, my place wasn't there anymore, because a lot of times we had to clean a lot of the things that he would do, although he was clearly advised against doing such things. There are quite a few examples. For example, there was the, as I was trying to, he asked me to get him into A-list events. And while I was on the phone trying to open doors to A-list events, and that was quite difficult because lately it had become very difficult to get him into places because he was blacklisted pretty much everywhere uh he tweeted i miss human trafficking um that was something that i was and he even said on your show that his staff deleted his his tweet it's not true i was his stuff and i did not do anything nor did i ever have access to his x account so that was one of the reasons why i decided to leave the second one was quite personal it was the fact that I realized that I had been primed to believe in his innocence and you know like in any echo chamber that you spend a lot of time it's my lens started to be very crooked I would just because of habit I would always look for a silver lining or for for reasons that would involve a reasonable doubt, would bring over a reasonable doubt over the allegations that he was presented with or over facts.

56:53And at some point, I realized when the Brie Stern story came out in March last year, that my instinct was to instantly dismiss it and just be like, yeah, right, that didn't happen, of course. And after the fact, I had a little bit of time to reflect and I realised I can't believe I just dismissed that without even giving it a single second thought. And that's why I realised that my objectivity was gone.

57:23Piers Morgan:Right, so are you saying now then that you've gone... Right, but are you now saying then that you don't believe they're repeated protestations of innocence and that you do think they're guilty of some of these crimes? No, actually, this is something that I will probably never be able to resolve. This is what I'm carrying with me after having left. I don't think any verdict in court or anything for that matter is going to be able to resolve this matter in my head and within me, whether innocent or not. There's evidence on both sides. I definitely cannot ignore the amount of stories that keep coming out from other women.

58:04one definitely cannot ignore his own character witness that he has left his footprint on the internet because Andrew has done himself a huge disservice by being his own worst character witness in the story because of what he says and what he professes and his attitude towards women However, though, I have been treated with utmost respect. I have never witnessed anything that was remotely similar to the allegations that he's facing. So these two, they are very hard things to reconcile. I've read the file. I've read the indictment. I've read all of the statements of all the alleged victims, except for the new UK file.

58:57So, no, I don't say... I can't say. I'm not a judge. I can't say whether they're innocent or not, but what I can present is what I've seen from the inside.

59:08Piers Morgan:OK, but, I mean, finally, obviously, by refusing to work for them anymore and by saying you don't know whether they're innocent or not, that's a pretty damning sequence of events for somebody who was their biggest cheerleader and defender for three years. Do you accept that? Yes, I guess. I mean, if one wants to see it like that, for me it's just having left the situation that I did not want to deal with anymore. Also, I promised myself... Well, you didn't want to defend them anymore. uh i i promise i always promise myself that i will be there while until while the presumption of innocence was present the civil trial the civil case trial was approaching in the uk and i didn't want to jump the boat when a verdict came out that's not who i am and then it was i just wanted out because i didn't want to be faced with exactly the conundrum that you're presenting to me right now.

1:00:07I want to be there to decide whether they're innocent or to decide my attitude towards that.

1:00:13Piers Morgan:OK. But you were pretty convinced of their innocence before, so I think we can draw our own conclusions. Matea Petroski, thank you very much. Thank you. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.