'Burning EVERYTHING Down!' Tim Pool, Milo Yiannopoulos & Steven Crowder Talk Fuentes, Candace & More

22:06Piers Morgan:I mean, I interviewed him at length and put to him a number of more controversial things that he said. He doubled down on most of it. He unashamedly said he was racist. He explained why he was racist in a very racist manner. He was blatantly misogynist. and unashamedly so. You know, he kind of hedged round about Holocaust denial, but I suspect, as some people have said since, he was playing a sort of arch satirical game with me about that so that he, you know, he could say later he didn't really mean it. How much of what is going on with him is performative? How much of it you know him, you used to hang out with him and Ye and others, how much of it is real?

22:46Piers Morgan:How much does he really believe? Well, I tried to befriend Nick because I wondered if there was anything to save there. And so I became, I suppose, something like a mentor to him for a couple of years. And it turned out that there really wasn't. He's a person who just wants to hurt people. And I couldn't find, you know, it's like nailing jelly to the wall. I couldn't find any consistent or, you know, substantive kind of core to him in any way. I mean, Nick is Nick is a kind of chameleonic character in media. One day he'll go on a podcast hosted by an African-American who has rappers on and he'll say, oh, I love immigrants, I know illegal immigrants.

23:29No, they're not bad people. And then he'll come on with you where he feels he's on surer ground and he'll sort of do the smirking, double-down kind of mischievous routine. He's a very gifted speaker. He's obviously got very high verbal IQ. He's a very charismatic person. But having observed him and having known him for a little while and been on the receiving end of some of his worst behaviour, he's something distinctively different, as I mentioned before, from the provocateurs of a decade ago and the decades before that, in that he is, I think, emblematic of Gen Z, really, in being quite a pure and sort of terrifyingly pure nihilist.

24:10and really I couldn't tell you an opinion, aside from hating Jews, that if he has on Tuesday, he will absolutely for sure still have on Thursday. And that can't be a good thing.

24:23Piers Morgan:I mean, you know, you mentioned that you're the son of a woman, your mother, who was born in Germany, who was Jewish. I suppose it begs the question, knowing how apparently anti-Semitic he is, and then he's constantly attacking Jews, constantly accusing Jews of running the world in a malevolent way and so on. Why would you want to hang around with someone like him? And indeed Ye, for that matter, who then began spewing anti-Semitic content. Well, Ye is in a completely different category. I mean, Ye is a generational genius. I mean, he can speak for himself. He doesn't need me to speak for him.

25:04These two people are in completely different categories. I think that maybe to British ears, some of the discourse in America can sound really just baffling and horrifying and hateful. And it's important to understand what's really going on. Whereas 10 years ago, we were sort of saying things to be mischievous and naughty, provocative and to push the boundaries. that now has sort of evolved into a less ironic kind of sort of, I guess you call it an equal opportunities sort of loathing for everybody in the forms of people like Nick Fuentes. But, you know, I got to say, I don't have that much of a problem with a lot of what he says when he's talking about, I mean, you know, when you were sort of incredulous about his misogyny, I felt it actually was a little unfair to him because, you know, 10 years ago, we were talking about how men were getting left behind, how women were overtaking them at university, how the world had suddenly, bafflingly, and very, very abruptly become quite a hostile place to be a man.

26:07That situation has not gotten better. And so I think his generation's hostility toward women is lamentable, but very understandable. And when he comes to talk about what he would call Jewish power, there is a discussion to be had there that has not been had for a very long time because people have been, you know, spooked or intimidated or threatened into silence because of a, you know, an event 75, 80 years ago, which has been, you know, weaponized against, I think, legitimate debate about, for instance, what the state of Israel is up to. I think it's really good. I mean, and I got to tell you, I really give you a lot of credit for breaking with the establishment on Israel and, you know, coming up with the opinion that you have, which I think is the correct one.

26:54But it was very difficult up until about five years ago to speak plainly and honestly about some of the most appalling behaviour of the Israeli state because you knew what was going to happen. You knew what you were going to get called. And I do think there's some value to having a character like Nick. I'm not a fan of Nick's, but I do at least see some positive benefit in, if you like, the wreckage he's left behind.

27:17Piers Morgan:But the problem is that his Groypers, his fan club, all the abuse that spewed my way since I did the interview is entirely predictable but I've been really struck not just by how blatantly misogynist and violent is about women and I don't really accept the defence that while men have been treated badly I've been leading the charge for young men to be treated better for the man bashing to stop and so on it doesn't mean at the same time you have to just belittle and demean women or say they shouldn't be allowed to vote or shouldn't be allowed a job or they're going to get old and fat and ugly and they're all annoying I mean, that's just...

27:52Piers Morgan:That's not about defending the male position. It's about just demeaning and belittling and attacking women, which is, to me, grotesque. But I think in terms of... It does look ugly, but you have to understand it in the context of a very heavily feminised society. I mean, we have speech codes in the workplace. We have exams rewritten to favour girls. I mean, it's not just that women are pulling ahead in university. I mean, women really have, you know, engineered the world against men. And I'm not saying that I like the tone that some of these Zoomers take, but do I understand it? I sure do. I really do understand, you know, a 22-year-old guy today has no realistic prospect of building a life for himself and no path to being a patriarch, no path to being a husband and father that, you know, that he can plausibly see.

28:43So they're dropping out, they're getting hostile, they're getting bitter. Do I get it? I'll be honest with you, I do. I do understand it.

28:48Piers Morgan:And what about his racism? where he just admitted, yeah, I'm a racist, and then explained why he doesn't want to be walking around near black people and so on. I mean, he articulated perfectly what it is to be a racist, where you want to be away from people... But don't you think everyone feels a little bit... Don't you think everyone feels just slightly like that? Maybe he's an extreme case in the wake of George Floyd and perhaps their frustration is with the white liberals that made it happen or whatever. But, I mean, there is a phrase... I hope it's OK that I use a safer version of the word.

29:22There's a phrase in America at the moment, Negro fatigue, and it is used to describe people just being sick of hearing about, you know, black people this, black people that, black people complaining in the wake of George Floyd, which was just the most grotesque absurdity and offence to common sense and to decency.

29:39Piers Morgan:Do you think it's acceptable and decent to use a phrase like the one you just used? Well, I don't think there's too much wrong with what I just said. I certainly don't wake up in the morning glad that the world is more full of hate. I'm a Catholic, so, you know, the most important thing to me is not... So why would you use a phrase like the one you just used? If you don't want to fuel that kind of thing, why would you use a phrase that you know is so inflammatory? Well, there are much worse versions of that. I was using a sanitised version out of respect for your programme. I doubt the average black viewer watching this or African-American who hears about that is going to see it that way.

30:31I think they'd rather be called what I said than have somebody who, you know, than have white people kind of tied up in knots, not even sure that they should call them African-American or black because these things are sort of used as a sort of ever-changing linguistic weaponry against one racist society. Look, I mean, you can get waylaid and go down on a tangent about that if you want. What I was trying to explain in an anthropological way, it was explain to you how people are feeling in America, and it's not just 22-year-old far-right racists that feel like this. It's not. Well, what I'm struggling to do, if I'm honest with you, Milo,

31:07Piers Morgan:I'm struggling to see where you are different to Fuentes, other than you speak in a posh English accent. I mean, you basically agreed with everything he's been saying while saying, I don't agree with him. No, I mean, I think there's a big difference between somebody who is leaning into animosity and hatred of others and somebody who is observing it happening, sympathetic about the origins and lamenting the fact that it exists. I mean, I don't think the tone that I'm taking, irrespective of my accent, is anything like the way that Nick talks, and I think the comparison's slightly silly. Well, because I think you can say...

31:49Just because I can understand, because I'm empathetic to this group of people and because I think that now and again they have a point about things doesn't make me Nick. It means that I can perhaps understand that group a little bit, sort of see where they're coming from in some respects. You know, and making friends with Nick was... My intention was, you know, if I can have one foot in that world and one foot in, you know, in the sane world of everybody else, maybe I could, you know, help bridge the gap there. It turned out not to be the case because he, you know, he's, let's say, not a bridge builder.

32:26But... But what is it specifically you don't agree with him?

32:29Piers Morgan:What is it you don't agree with him about? Christmas is peak time for online shopping sprees, but that also means it's peak time for hackers and data brokers who steal your information online. The solution is very simple. Use Express VPN to shut them down. Top-tier encryption keeps your activity hidden, even on dodgy public Wi-Fi, which is perfect for holiday travel. You can set your location to 105 different countries, which lets you access content from all over the world. Users save hundreds on streaming and even plane tickets with ExpressVPN, all for$3.49 a month. It's a no-brainer. I use it, and you should too.

33:07Piers Morgan:Right now, you can get an extra four months of ExpressVPN if you go to expressvpn.com slash peers. That's ExpressVPN's lowest price ever, plus four extra months of service. Just scan the QR code on the screen or go to expressvpn.com slash peers. I think he has a reductionist and grievance-fueled view of the world that explains almost everything that's wrong with America, geopolitics, the economic state of his generation, and the fact that he can't get a good burger. It all seems to be the Jew. And there are some things that, you know, now and again, that do strike one as unusual, whether it's a Jewish over-representation in certain industries.

33:54There are certainly criticisms to be had of Israel. But, you know, Nick reducing the whole world down to, you know, a vast Jewish conspiracy and it would all just be fine if we could smash Jewish power. I mean, I don't have anything remotely like that kind of point of view.

34:10Piers Morgan:Well, how could you? Your mother's Jewish. I think it's strange that you're, I think, well, Jewish, yeah. I think it's strange. I'm confused as to why you seem so anxious to suggest that we're identical. It's No, I didn't say that. As you were defending him over the misogyny, defending him over the anti-Semitism, defending him over the racism, I just began to conclude that although you're saying it in a different way, and obviously I was being ironic, I myself speak in an English accent, but it seemed to me that you were going out of your way... You were going out of your way to defend things which I thought were pretty deplorable in that interview.

34:49Well, I'm trying to understand where these guys are coming from because there's a lot of them. is a whole generation of them. And if we simply write them off as racist, sexist, misogynist pigs, we'll lose them. And we'll lose them to people like Nick Fuentes. I take the view that it would be better to understand what of their package of opinions has validity and what does not, understand where some of their anxieties and concerns are coming from, figure out what we can fix, and try to rescue a generation that seems to me to be sliding into nihilism and hatred of everybody. Isn't that a good thing?

35:30Piers Morgan:Well, I mean, look, if we expand it, if you look at someone like Ye, you represent him, I think, right? You work with him still? Yes, I manage the lawyers and I run his family office, yeah. You know, and again, I would simply say, this is a guy who, on the record, I would have asked him this if he hadn't walked out of our last interview to get him to explain why he said these things. But, you know, only three years ago, literally, three years ago this month, he praised Hitler, denied the Holocaust. I love Jewish people, but I also love Nazis. I do love Hitler. He posted an image of a swastika fuse within A Star of David, which led to a second suspension from X for incitement to violence, and so on.

36:12Piers Morgan:He then produced a song called Heil Hitler, which was banned from many platforms and so on. This is deliberate baiting of Jewish people in the most horrific manner possible. Again, I'll just ask you, are you comfortable working for him with that? Of course I'm comfortable. I mean, he's an extraordinary human being. I mean, there's a perfectly good explanation for that, which he has given a number of times. You can find it plausible or implausible, as the case may be, but the way he explained it, and he did this on a live stream, It's readily available. He said, I want to perform Heil Hitler at the Grammys, because if I do that, those words will suddenly no longer have power.

36:55I will have conquered them. I will have drained them of all of their I forget the expression he used, but I suppose I would say something, you know, all of their, you know, their toxic, hateful energy. You know, the way he was articulating his artistic project in doing that, and some people will find it persuasive and some won't, was that was in terms of, you know, like abuse survivors. We used to laugh at them 10 years ago when they had trigger warnings and safe spaces and, you know, little puppy rooms and stuff like that, because everybody knows that if you get raped or something terrible happens to you, the best way to put your life back together is exposure therapy so that it doesn't become this sort of thing that, you know, that turns you into a blubbering mess every time you hear about it for the rest of your life.

37:39You just slowly kind of acclimatize back and get used to it. Yeh seemed to be taking a similar view about some words, phrases and opinions that have had a stranglehold on our culture for a long time. And it's funny, you know, he perhaps hasn't read, you know, The Holocaust of American Life by Peter Novick, the Princeton academic who explains how that particular historical event was sort of rebooted in the academy in the 1960s and formed the basis of modern what we would call grievance culture and victimhood ideology that became BLM. But, you know, Yeh sort of seemed to instinctively intuit that this was being weaponized and leveraged to stop people talking about other things like Israel, for instance, or other things like the fact that one particular group of people were, you know, seemed to be all the managers in the entertainment industry.

38:36And they were systematically defrauding and screwing the black entertainers that they were managing. I mean, he's entitled to that view. He's entitled to that observation. And if it's right that his intention was to take this horrifying taboo, you know, the greatest evil in history, as we're all told to call it... What would you call it? If it was his intention... Well, what would you call it? Well, you know, no, of course it was a monstrous and incomprehensible evil. You know, maybe Stalin was worse, who cares? after a certain point, it's like, it's just evil. We can't wrap our heads around, isn't it?

39:19But the way he was articulating, at the time he gave that interview, and within a day of giving that interview, he was on a live stream and he said, I want to sing Heil Hitler at the Grammys because after that, the words will no longer have any power. That's a bit more of a complex, subtle, artistic project than you're giving him credit for.

39:38Piers Morgan:Milo, honestly, it's just a crock of shit. That's not why he did it. He did it just for attention. He didn't care about antagonising and upsetting and distressing Jewish people worldwide. He's a massive entertainer with 33 million followers on X alone, as he reminded me when he did his little performative stunt with me. And the truth is that, you know, all I've heard you do in the last 20 minutes is defend all these people from what I think are indefensible things they've said. And you've done it in a very sort of... I'm sorry that you and Yeh seem to have... Moderate-sounding way, but I just think...

40:12Piers Morgan:I'd say it was to Yeh's face if he hadn't bottled it and run away. And I wouldn't have bought into it. I think it's a real shame that the pair of you seem to have been... He was doing all this stuff for some profound, you know, complex reasons. No, he wasn't. He was just dew-baiting. He was dew-baiting and using Hitler to do it. As I said at the beginning, some people are not going to find it plausible. I do think it's a pity that you two, in your encounters with one another, seem to have spoken past each other so much. You obviously haven't managed to... Last time I was prepared to do a lengthy interview, I did a two-hour interview with him several years ago, which I thought was very illuminating, very enlightening.

40:46Piers Morgan:I was looking forward to doing the same thing with him the second time round, and he just bailed at me after three minutes because he obviously worked out it was going to be a publicity stunt. But having had that conversation with him and having seen a little glimmer of what is clearly a remarkable intellect, albeit an unconventional one, I mean, you don't seem to give him very much credit as an artist, as a creative, as a... No, no, just to be clear, he's one of the most talented... He's somebody with 75, Grammy now. No, no, hang on. He's one of the most talented artists of my generation, without a shadow of a doubt.

41:18Piers Morgan:Without a shadow of a doubt. It's possible that he's got something a little bit more... It's also possible to say that some of the stuff he's come out with in the last two or three years has been disgusting. And I would have said that to him to his face. And, by the way, the offer remains. If you want to go back to him and tell him we've had this exchange, I don't expect you to answer for him. If he wants to actually have the balls to sit there and answer these questions to me for a sustained period of time, I will do that interview. But he didn't want to. He'd rather turn it into a little... Something of an answer...

41:49Sorry, go on.

41:49Piers Morgan:Go on, make your point. Perhaps something of an answer to your frustration is the fact that he did sit down with an Orthodox rabbi a couple of weeks ago, give a public and direct apology for having hurt people from that ethnic and faith group and undertake to understand a bit better why it was that, you know, what he was seeking to accomplish with those, you know, garments and songs and whatever didn't land and upset and hurt a lot of people. I mean, he has begun to acknowledge that. I mean, perhaps your producers didn't tell you that, But, you know, that's for him to talk about. All right, well, tell him the office stands.

42:33He has already acknowledged that, and he has already begun to... Last time...

42:39Piers Morgan:Last time he bailed on me after three minutes, if he wants to have a longer conversation, I'd be very happy to do it. I've got to leave it there. Marla Yiannopoulos, thank you for coming on Uncensored. Thank you. God bless you. Angel Studios are back with a new must-see documentary. It's called Thank You, Dr. Fauci, and you're going to hear a lot more about it over the next few months. Award-winning filmmaker Jenna First digs into the origins of COVID-19, a possible bio arms race with China, and claims about history's biggest public health cover-up. It's not a right-wing film or a left-wing film.

43:13Piers Morgan:It's a film about transparency, which is something we should all care about. First pulls over documents and interrogates scientists, intelligence professionals, and whistleblowers. It's being described as Oppenheimer meets outbreak. And if you've ever wondered what really happens behind closed doors, you'll want to see it. Angel Studios is powered by its Guild members voting on real stories. You can find out more at angel.com slash peers. Become a member, stream Thank You Dr. Fauci, and be part of a conversation demanding truth and accountability. An eagle-eyed member of the Uncensored team noticed that one of the first eager superfans to comment on my interview with Nick Fuentes was Stephen Crowder, the host of Louder with Crowder, who wrote on our YouTube channel how to not conduct an interview 101.

43:57Piers Morgan:And Mr Crowder joins me now. Welcome to you, Mr Crowder. Thank you for having me, sir. Merry Christmas. Or do you guys say happy Christmas? I've heard it both ways. We do both. I'd be very happy to wish you a happy Christmas and a merry Christmas. Thank you. Despite you impugning my qualities as an interviewer. You did expand on this. You said Piers Morgan is a liberal at heart, which I think is probably right. So he spent the whole interview trying to gotcha his way through identity politics on a guy who already rejects the premise. I did think that was an interesting commentary, actually. I would start by saying I wasn't trying to gotcha him because I'd already made it clear I was going to put to him, I'd already said this publicly, I was going to put to him all the more contentious things that he has said which have gained notoriety and challenge him properly about it, which I think I did.

44:47Piers Morgan:I don't categorise that as a gotcha. He got very exercised about the story involving his father. And I said on an earlier panel we did that actually, if I had my time again, I wouldn't have named his father, although it's easily discoverable on the internet, but I wouldn't have done that. I would still have told the anecdote, because as I was trying to explain to Nick Fuentes, the story was put in the public domain by Nick Fuentes about his father in a way in which you could only construe from it that his father made decisions when Nick Fuentes was young, which appeared to be racist decisions.

45:20Piers Morgan:And I was curious whether he felt he was a product of that environment. Now, he went nuts about that, and he's perfectly entitled to, and he's come after me and my family. He's perfectly entitled to do all that. I don't care. But I was curious why you felt that I was playing gotcha with him and not just actually, I think, doing my job as a journalist and just challenging him about the more contentious things that he said. Yeah, well, here's the thing. I don't think you challenged him on the most contentious things. It's not an impugn of your character. It's a different interviewing style, right?

45:53I think that trying to shame someone like Nick Fuentes for being racist, for being a misogynist, like that's that's a layup for him. He's already been accused of that. And I don't think it's very fruitful. I mean, I don't want to conflate gotcha with challenging. So I would say, by the way, yeah, if he's going after your family, Nick Fuentes, if you're watching, strongly condemn that from your audience, if anything is happening out of line. But I also would say when the guy makes a good point and says, hey, you know what? My dad's not here to defend himself. Could we move on from that? Don't do it six more times.

46:23But I counted six times and you're not able to get to where you actually have disagreements. See, when I sat down with Nick and yeah, I played his clips back. People could argue that it was tedious, but I would play a minute and a half clip, you know, a two minute clip because I wanted to show it in context. And I was able to actually lay out. We were actually able to contrast our policy, our prescription differences where people know. And so I think if you go after, for example, not for example, father being racist, I don't even know that you would construe his father as being racist because he doesn't like Applebee's.

46:52No one likes Applebee's. No one likes Applebee's. Hang on, hang on, hang on.

46:56Piers Morgan:That's not what he said. He literally told the story that his father didn't like that particular restaurant chain or others because they were known for Black Fair.

47:09Piers Morgan:Sure. Well, that's racist. Black Fair? What if people don't like Black Fair as far as food? What if people don't want to be somewhere where they're more likely to end up in a World Star hip-hop video. This is where we get to the issue of you and him discussing per capita. Let me ask you this. You're a Catholic. We were talking about this. You said you'd be happy to talk about it. What do you think is going to be fruitful in attacking a celibate Catholic for not getting laid? I didn't attack him for it. You're driving people into his arms. I didn't attack him. He said he needs to get laid. I think he does.

47:39Piers Morgan:That's a heresy. I think he does. I think he's an incel. So you advocate heresy? I think he's... Well, I perfectly understand. If you're a devout Catholic, which I'm not, if you're a devout, I was brought up a Catholic and I was given spiritual guidance by Catholic nuns and a lot of my family are very devout Catholics. I'm not particularly, but I still adhere to, you know, broadly adhere to Catholicism, albeit there are parts of the teachings I don't agree with. So that's my position on it. But I can understand, if he'd said to me, the reason I've never had sex... But then why bring it up, Pierce?

48:08Why is it relevant whether he's been late or not? Because I said in my interview specifically, just so you know, I'll answer for everything I say. When I interviewed him, I said, you know, I hate it when people use something that should be seen as a virtue, as an attack. Out of all the views, a few view them as reprehensible. And I, by the way, strongly disagree with a lot of Nick's views. The least relevant is whether he's celibate as a devout Catholic. That's like a good thing. And so you actually gave him the moral hydrant. He says, hey, take my dad out of it.

48:34Piers Morgan:Hang on, you're putting up a better defense, if I may suggest, than he did. Because had he said to me, I'm a devout Catholic, and the reason I haven't had sex is because the Catholic Church forbids that and says you should be married before you have sex? Perfectly reasonable answer. That's not what he said. He never said that at all. So you didn't do your research because he said that literally dozens of times. He may have said it elsewhere. He didn't say it to me. I only asked him about that stuff because there is a view that he is what they call an incel and that he whips up that kind of mentality.

49:05Piers Morgan:And that's why he's such a misogynist about women and so on. It's an interesting thing to ask him. He was actually, he seemed to me, quite happy to answer it all. He was quite emphatic in his answers. Fine. I didn't see that as an attack. I was joking about getting laid because it seems to me he's a very angry guy. Can I jump in for a second here? This is where I think this is important, right? His audience will. People out there, by the way, some who are voluntarily celibate because they're devout Christians. But also, if you look at the dating pool out there, I don't think it's misogyny to say I wouldn't date one of those young women if they were growing on my ass.

49:40and they're actually out there living in a world that's been created. They will identify you as someone who's helped create that, right? Someone who says, I don't care if the UK no longer looks white. I don't care if we lose our cultural identity. Hey, it's great. Women's rights. And they're looking at their prospects. And when you say, hey, you're celibate or whatever it is, you haven't gotten laid. You're an incel. Guess what? You give him the moral high ground. When you say, hey, what about your dad? And he asks you, and I will say, he asked pretty respectfully, don't do that, you go on six more times.

50:08What did you ask about Stonewall?

50:09Piers Morgan:Well, because I thought what he was doing... You said a little twerp. Yeah, no, I just... You said a little twerp. Stephen, I hear you. I hear you. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying... Honestly, I'm not, because I've got a lot of respect for you. I think that he... Well, thank you. I think what he tried to do, he tried to... I think he was taken aback when I revealed that anecdote about his father, and I think he didn't want to address what he actually said on air with that anecdote, because it's pretty damning when you hear it. And I think he decided very quickly, because he's a smart, quick operator, to turn it into me attacking him about his dad.

50:40Piers Morgan:He wasn't there and how disgusting and blah, blah. And that's fine, but I kept trying to bring him back. I kept saying, look, it's not an attack on your father. To his dad. Well, I wasn't attacking his dad. I was saying, if you tell a story which looks to the world when they hear it, that you're saying your father was racist, can that have an influence on you as you grow up? That was the question I was making. I didn't want him getting off the hook of answering that question about his environment, having heard him in his own words put that story out there. Yeah, well, here's the thing. In trying to keep him six times, and that's what I counted on the hook for his dad maybe being a racist, look, if your dad's in the Klan, it couldn't be relevant.

51:18It has nothing to do with the price of tea in China, right? What hook would matter? Well, it is if you openly admit to being a racist, isn't it? Hold on, asking him about Stalin. And I say this because the last time I was on your show, remember, we were talking about Tucker Carlson. Yeah. And by the way, I would hope that you would be just as hard on Candace and people like Tucker for some of the things that they've said. I think it's fair to be even-handed across the board. Yeah, I agree. Stalin, I said I would like to ask him about that, right? Is he a fan? Is he actually an admirer? Or does he just mean to say he's fascinated?

51:44What did you ask? You asked him about his dad six times. You attacked him as racist. And I don't mean attack him. You present him, but racist, misogynist, right? Stuff that he already knows. That's the playbook. You'll drive your fans into his own arms. What was your question on Stalin? Well, I... This episode is brought to you by Fox One. Watch all 104 matches of the FIFA World Cup live in 4K for just$19.99 a month with three days free. Build your own multi-view, choose up to three streams, and follow player spotlights. Stay on top of every moment with live stats, highlights, and instant replays.

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52:55There wasn't one. Do you think that's going to be effective or fruitful? Well, it wasn't. Bring out a guy named Finkelstein. No, it wasn't. You didn't ask him. Let me read you what I asked him about Stalin. Okay, because I think a lot of people, you responded saying it was softball. Did you watch the whole interview that I conducted with Nick?

53:10Piers Morgan:Well, before you read what you're about to read, let me play a little mashup of you interviewing Nick Fuentes and you can respond to this. Hang on. Okay, but did you watch the whole interview? Nick Fuentes, do you hate all Jews, sir? No. No, I don't. Okay. Do you consider yourself an anti-Semite, a noted anti-Semite? No. Okay. Clears that up. Do you believe that white people are superior to all other races on the planet? No. Okay. Do you want to eradicate all non-whites from the United States? No. Okay. Well, Barry Weiss will be very happy to hear that. No doubt she's watching. And then because this happens a lot, right?

53:49It's a year of Tucker did this with you. Fed, fed, fed. Nick Fuentes, are you, in fact, a Fed?

53:57Piers Morgan:No. OK. I've got to say, mate, it's one of the most forensic examinations of interviewing Masterclass I think I've ever seen. I mean, the follow-ups were magnificent. Nick. Magnificent. Pierce, did you watch the whole interview? No. No, you didn't. OK, so one of us came here quite a bit more prepared, which seems to be your approach with Nick. So let me read you my exact question on Stalin. Those were layups specifically because, again, I think you and I both agree, right, We want to have reasonable discussions. You don't want to radicalize people. Get rid of the bull crap on the outset so that we could actually get to real differences.

54:28And I think here's something that I really pursue when I interview someone. Truth and understanding. I asked him about Stalin. Let me read you the exact question later on. It would help if you watched the whole interview. I said, my question to you would be, I know that you've said we want a Catholic theocracy or a Christian theocracy. I've heard the word dictatorship. Correct me if I'm wrong. I would ask you, since the end point seems similar to where Stalin would want us to reach, swap atheism for Catholicism, would you be able to name or is there any one thing that you think America concretely should copy about Stalin's rule or revolutionary methods to get there?

55:02And guess what? We were able to actually answer. We were able to actually discuss it. How many retractions on your show? Zero. Quite a few on mine. How many times did we actually get into discussions regarding where we disagree? And let me tell you where I disagree with him. I'm to the right of him on some issues. I'm definitely to the right of him economically. He's a pretty big sort of centralized economy guy, but we did it in good faith. And I presented him with his own questions. We got that out of the way. If you don't watch the whole interview, yeah, you can take 15 seconds. Did you get to any...

55:30That was my question, and yours was... Well, you never asked about Stalin. You said, do you think Hitler... Do you still think Hitler is fucking cool? Yeah. How'd that work out for you? What'd you learn?

55:40Piers Morgan:That he does. And that's new? That he thinks they have nice outfits? They're Hugo Boss. No, but... OK, he didn't say that as his reason. Did you learn about Stalin, Pierce? Did you learn a lot about why young men right now are disaffected, disenfranchised? As I said to you, I played a clip from a guy who literally lost family members, close family members, to Stalin and to Hitler. Sure. And Nick Fuente's response was to mock him and then to unleash his groypers on this guy who've been now mercilessly abusing and mocking him about the loss of his family members to Stalin and Hitler for the last 48 hours.

56:22Piers Morgan:Now, you might think that's acceptable or that somehow I didn't push that hard enough. This is why legacy media is dying. You can't compete. Look, guys like Andrew Wilson on your show, they've come up, they've come... I mean that you were at CNN, HLN for a very long time and you're still following the same format. And so there, accusing someone young of being racist is a win. But with people who've grown up being accused of racism, of misogyny their whole life, they don't give a shit. And so you should get to the point where you can actually understand. Here's the one thing I would say that would help.

56:52Listen, you weren't listening to the guy, so you're not even able to lay out where you disagree and your own audience thought so.

56:59Piers Morgan:I don't think you could have heard the whole interview either. I'm going to go and listen to yours in full. Every last second, pillar to post. Okay, but for two hours I talked to the guy. I came with an open mind. I wanted to know whether it was performative, whether he did these things, whether he said things as a joke, whether if he did and it blew up he regretted any of them or whether he really means this stuff. And I learned a lot more about Nick Fuentes in the two hours than I knew before. You probably knew it already because you've interviewed him before. I haven't. It's the first time I've ever met him.

57:32No, I've never interviewed him before. This is my first time I've ever spoken with him or interacted with him whatsoever. I did do my research, and I already knew what his stance was on Stalin. I already knew how he clarified it. I already knew his stance on racism. And here's what I would say. if I'm being as accurate as I can be, right, for the general populace. I think most people, if they listen to Nick Fuentes, his views on race and crime, they'd say, OK, someone like that has a case. Certainly any man under the age of 25. I think a lot of people would broad strokes categorize it as anti-Semitic.

58:00We were able to get into that. I was able to communicate that I thought Islamic immigration is a greater threat than global jury. And guess what? He disagreed. But we understood each other. You don't de-radicalise people by marginalising everyone who actually makes good points, by spending six follow-up questions on a racist... You know what? OK, here's what I...

58:20Piers Morgan:You know what, Stephen, here's what I'll concede, with the initial reaction that you did. I will concede I didn't get him... I mean, other than him saying, I believe now, actually, in a satirical way, in other words, I don't think he really meant it, but when he said he did think at least six million Jews who's died in the Holocaust. He did it in a way that others like Glenn Greenwald have told me he didn't mean it. Whatever. It's up to him. It's down to him. I don't think I got anywhere with Nick Fuentes. I don't think I got anywhere to him changing his mind about anything. I certainly didn't get anywhere in stopping him unleashing his groyper hounds on me or my family, whatever.

58:59Piers Morgan:Whatever. I don't care. I've had far worse, and it's fine. If you're in the media jungle long enough, you get these pylons occasionally, and it's just better just to ride him out with a smile on your face. It's whatever. but I didn't get anywhere with it. So in a way, I am listening to you because I'm curious how you do get anywhere with somebody like that when his whole shtick is really just on doubling, trebling, quadrupling down, and he says things which I genuinely do find really offensive. When he talks about women in the way that he does, it is really offensive. Well, here, okay, let me answer.

59:32Here's how you get somewhere, by not playing gotcha. So, for example, when you start off with, if you've done the research, you know it's facetious. Same thing that Gillian Michaels did. Do you think all women need to be raped? No, he was citing, by the way, study after study that you can replicate that 62 % of women... Sure, he said that to me. ..have some form of a rape fantasy. Yes, sexually dominant. But when you start off with that, guess what? Young people go, OK, all right, same old, same old. I didn't start off with that, though. What are your views on women?

1:00:00Piers Morgan:I started off with this thing that all women are annoying and they all get old and fat and ugly. What part of that do you disagree with? All of it. You don't think that women get fatter and more attractive? Men do too, by the way. I think men largely do. You and I are both getting fatter and uglier. And I think that a lot of women, particularly if you go on TikTok and you see generationally, I think they're annoying. And I think that is a symptom of a serious problem, which is deeply rooted feminism, which, by the way, is the same source problem for LGBTQAI and the reason that you have biological men winning Olympic medals, right?

1:00:34You see that as a problem. You need to get to where you diverge or what the root of the problem is. And here's the thing. You're never going to get there if you just discount young people who are facing different problems. And I understand. I don't think they're right on all of it, but I understand it because I was listening. I think you could have listened to him better if your goal is the pursuit of truth. And actually, and I would imagine your goal if you think his views are abhorrent, by the way, and I think some of them are. So if your goal is to peel some of those people off, give him the floor to explain context so that you can contrast it.

1:01:06But it ended up getting back to gotcha.

1:01:09Piers Morgan:OK, but final question. Which of his views do you find abhorrent then? Well, when he talks about, for example, I would say wrong. I would say wrong. The idea of global jury. And I told him that. The idea that massive third world immigration, particularly from Islamic countries, that that largely rests at the feet of the Jews. I think it rests at the feet of these Islamic nations, of these third world nations that I would call crapples. And that's considered a more offensive view. I think it's a problem, for example, when you ask him if he's a racist, he's going to answer yes. He's going to answer yes.

1:01:38But he actually answered, by the way, everyone's racist. And then he actually offered a qualifier. And through that, you're racist because you live in a largely white area. By the way, there's nothing wrong with that. You can't just ignore the points and go back to a soundbite. That's how a guy like Nick Fuentes, that's how he thrives. And by the way, people in the comments section, your own comments section, I get that they were, some of them are trolling. Go easy, guys. on Pierce. It's Christmas. I think you were trying to do a good job. What I'm telling you What I'm telling you, Pierce, is that it's not the way to approach a different generation of people who come up in a blood sport debate like they did on Twitch.

1:02:13It's going to actually give them a win.

1:02:16Piers Morgan:Yeah, I think I buy into the argument they couldn't give a shit, actually. And that's one of the more depressing aspects of it. Easier to dismiss them. But if I worried about their comments, I would turn the comments off. And they're wide open. So bring your worst, you little groypers. Stephen Crowder, Merry Christmas to you. Always good to have you on. And I do enjoy our conversations about these things. I think I get stuff out of them. I hope you do too. We always have an interesting chat, so thank you. I do. Happy Christmas. I appreciate you taking the time. All the best. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent.

1:02:48Piers Morgan:The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate, and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.

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