Candace Owens vs Piers Morgan - Their Best Debate Moments!

26:11I criticize Benjamin Netanyahu, my dear friend, for allowing money to go into Hamas and the belief that they could be bought off. I criticize the Israeli government for not recognizing the Armenian genocide, something that Candace Owen blames the Jews. She actually says that Kamal Autoturk was led by the Jews to the Armenian genocide. By the way, the Armenian genocide took place under the Ottoman Turks, not Kamal Autoturk. She has no sense of history and she just fabricates constantly. But let's just look for one moment. Wait one second. Let's just go through her history of anti-Semitism. Yes.

26:41You said you had specifics of Candace Owens being anti-Semitic. What are those examples? Okay. You see, the Jewish community did not want Candace Owens to be anti-Semitic. This is actually a tragedy that a woman gifted by God with such eloquence has decided to become a purveyor of hate. And when she said in 2018 that she has no issue with Hitler because he was a nationalist, but then he wanted to go beyond her borders, even then we didn't call her an anti-Semite. That's an absurd thing to say, that you had no issue with Hitler. Hitler, even domestically by then, had enacted all the Nuremberg laws.

27:17There was already the November 9th, 1938... Hang on, hang on, hang on. OK, just to clarify, let's take these one at a time. What do you believe she said about Adolf Hitler in the clip you're talking about? She said that there was no issue with Hitler except for the fact that he went beyond his borders. If he was a nationalist, that would have been enough. Let me play the clip. No, but my point is no one called her... In the interest of fairness, I'm going to play the clip so that viewers who've never heard it can hear what actually got said. Yeah, I agree. I actually don't have any problems at all with the word nationalism.

27:49I think that it gets... The definition gets poisoned by elitists that actually want globalism. Globalism is what I don't want. So when you think about, whenever we say nationalism, the first thing people think about, at least in America, is Hitler. He was a national socialist. But if Hitler just wanted to make Germany great and have things run well, OK, fine. The problem is that he had dreams outside of Germany. He wanted to globalize. He wanted everybody to be German, everybody to be speaking German, everybody to look a different way. That's not, to me, that's not nationalism. So in thinking about how it could go bad down the line, I don't really have an issue with nationalism.

28:26I really don't. I think that it's OK. It's important to retain your country's identity and to make sure that what's happening here, which I think is incredibly worrisome in terms of just the decrease in the birth rate that we're seeing in the UK, is what you kind of want to avoid. So I'm not I don't have anything problem. I have no problems with nationalism. It's globalism. I try to avoid. So, Candice, on that specific point, would you say that Rabbi Smuley has categorised it correctly or not? He's just openly lying, and that's why he didn't want you to play the clip. I was in the U.K., by the way.

29:01I was at the Royal Mobile Club. There were Jewish journalists in the room, and nothing was written about it until months later when somebody was working on a hit piece about me. I was answering a question when they were saying, how can we just embrace the word nationalism when it sort of has this dirty feel? And I was just essentially saying that I actually don't have an issue with nationalism. I think it's totally fine to be a British nationalist, to be an American nationalist, and the problem is that it's wrongly attributed. That word, I think, people instantly associate it with Adolf Hitler and I would argue that he wasn't actually a nationalist because obviously he invaded Poland and he went beyond German borders.

29:35I didn't even mention Jewish people. I didn't mention the Holocaust and suddenly you have people like Rabbi Shmuley who are pretending that I got up there and I defended Adolf Hitler. It's just, this isn't good business. That is not what you said. We just watched the clip. Right now, please don't cut me off. Please do not cut me off. A huge issue that you have right now is this dishonesty. If you really want to understand why Israel is facing a PR crisis, why Zionism right now to people doesn't feel good and they don't want to associate themselves with it, it's because it seems like it takes such, so many lies to maintain.

30:05There's no reason to misrepresent what I said and to tell people that I support Adolf Hitler, other than the fact that you want people to hate me. And so I'm deeply appreciative of the fact that you guys had that clip ready to go. Well, you may respond to what you just said and to that clip. Now you've watched it. Okay, okay. Great leaders need great sleep. If you're tossing and turning all night, then running on fumes all day, you will burn out. I make sure it never happens with Beam's Dream Powder. Beam is proudly founded in the USA by people who believe in hard work, integrity, and delivering results.

30:37Dream is their best-selling sleep blend packed with science-backed ingredients, including melatonin, magnesium, raci, elthinin, and apigenin. No pills, no grogginess, just a tasty nighttime powder that helps you fall asleep fast, stay awake for longer, and wake up ready to lead. Uncensored viewers and listeners can get a discount of up to 40 % off. Go to shopbeam.com slash peers and use the code peers at checkout. That's shopbeam.com slash peers. You know, she keeps on saying lying. I never said you shouldn't play the clip. I'm actually happy you did. She said if Hitler had only focused on domestic policy, she would have had no issue with him.

31:23His domestic policy was to the Kristallnacht, burn down 3 ,000 synagogues in a single night. Domestically, that was not in Poland. That was not in Czechoslovakia. His domestic policy was the 1934 Nuremberg Laws. His domestic policy was a complete dictatorship where he destroyed the Bundestag and subjected and created Dachau under Himmler. So those are the historical facts. But what I said was, even then, the Jewish community gave her a pass. She explained it, one mistake, people make mistakes. Here's the history of anti-Semitism. She's not going to be barred from going into Australia because of anything she said about Israel.

31:56That is a fabrication. She's going to be barred, Australia is my wife's country, born in Sydney. She's going to be barred to go to Australia because she's a Holocaust denier. Because a hundred-year-old victim of Yosef Mengele, the angel of death's experiments, came forward and said, you are going to traumatize me all over again. she actually said that Mengele's experiments, the fourth worst person in Nazi Germany, after Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels, Mengele, it was a fabrication. She's an out-and-out Holocaust denier. And Australia, God bless them, took in so many survivors after the war, including my wife's family from Slovakia.

32:35Well, let me ask Candice Owens now. She said that the Mengele experiments were false. Go ahead. Let me ask Candice Owens now two things. One, are you a Holocaust denier, or do you accept that six million Jews were killed by the Nazis in the Holocaust? And secondly, do you believe that Joseph Mengele, he is reported to have done, and has been since World War II ended? Thank you for those questions. No, absolutely, I am not a Holocaust denier. This is, again, another fabrication based off of a monologue that I did in which I was putting pressure on the American government to explain why it is a fact that we learned all of these things about the horrific things that Nazi scientists did.

33:15And to be clear, Piers, I did not even mention Joseph Mengele's name in this skit at all. I spoke about all the things that we learned that we were told over the years, some of which ended up being rebutted. And, you know, there were tons of, you know, that part doesn't matter. The point is, the end conclusion of that is that the CIA, via an operation known as Operation Paperclip, took the Nazi scientists and brought them to America, where they continued horrific experiments on Americans. That's the full context of that. So they pulled out a statement, one sentence, where I said, we've heard all of these sorts of things that they've done, you know, cut people in half, sewed them back together.

33:53And I said, that sounds like a ridiculous waste of time. And when you pull that clip up by itself, it sounds like I'm just diminishing all of these stories, when in reality, I'm saying, let's take everything at face value. Let's say everything WE 'VE EVER HEARD WAS TRUE. WHY ON EARTH WOULD THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT ACQUIESCE TO BRINGING THESE SCIENTISTS OVER TO AMERICA AND AS A FACT, DR. MENGALAY WAS NOT ONE OF THE SCIENTISTS WHICH WAS BROUGHT OVER TO AMERICA. JUST TO BE CLEAR, YOU ACCEPT HANG ON, I 'LL COME TO YOU, TO BE CLEAR, YOU ACCEPT THE NAZIS MURDERED 6 MILLION JEWS IN THE HOLOCAUST? YEAH, I HAVE NEVER ONCE IN ANY OF MY APPEARANCES EVER DENIED the Holocaust atrocities, ever.

34:33And you accept that Joseph Mengele was a despicable man who perpetrated horrendous crimes, including experimenting on Jewish people when they were still alive. All of the scientists, the Nazi experiments that were done, were horrific. And that's why I was saying they were so horrific that it makes you go, why on earth would the American government in this clandestine operation bring over the Nazi scientists who then became a part of our CIA and continued experiments onto America through to the 60s and the 70s. And I was quoting what those experiments were that was done throughout the Korean War.

35:07Rabbi Shmoudi, your response. And I read it. After this debate, we will post every single clip. That was a complete and utter fabrication. What she said was that she doubts that any of this happened because it was, as she just said, a waste of time. The whole Holocaust was a waste of time. Hitler had no winter equipment for his soldiers in Stalingrad under General Paulus in 1942 because the boxcars were taking Jews to Auschwitz. You see, that is what hatred is, Candace. It's where you hate so much that it becomes self-destructive. It's what's happening to you. You're a very gifted, eloquent broadcaster.

35:46You are self-destructing before America's eyes because you have some issue with the Jews, not with Israel. So let me continue. You actually said that Theodor Herzl was a Frankist. By the way, when you attack Frankists as a bunch of Jewish pedophiles, you forget to mention they all became part of your religion. They all converted in 1757 to Catholicism. You always omit that. But you said that Theodor Herzl was a Frankist and you said he set up the state of Israel as a refuge for pedophiles. This is before Gaza. This is before Rafa. As a refuge for Jewish pedophiles. You always referred to Jews as pedophiles.

36:20It's the main word you use about Jews. And every historian knows that what began in Norwich in 1099 with the first blood libel, where the Jews were falsely accused of taking a Christian child and drinking his blood, you actually believe that. You said that Christian bodies, this is before Rafa, this is before Israel, that Christian bodies were found all over Europe. And when you speak about pedophilia, you know, it's funny, you just converted to Catholicism. In 2002, Pope John Paul II, a pope that you would probably like, he was very conservative, he was a great man, great friend of the Jewish community, recognized the state of Israel, sent an ambassador in 1994.

37:00He apologized, very frail, to the world Catholic community, saying that at least 2 % of all Catholic priests were pedophiles. Later, Pope Benedict XVI apologized again. I met Pope Benedict, a great man, great friend of the Jewish community. He said it was 4%. Then Pope Francis raised it probably even higher, 6%. We know a million people, almost a million people, children in France alone, according to the French government, were abused by Catholic priests. But you've never once condemned Catholic pedophilia. Everyone knows it was the biggest scandal in the world, but only the Jews are pedophiles.

37:32Is that antisemitism? Okay. Let me ask Candice, do you condemn pedophiles in the Catholic church, Christian pedophiles? Yeah, he's just lying again. Actually, on my show, I spoke extensively about Frankism, and I told people that there was a conversion into the Catholic faith. And one of the things that I believe is that all of the Abrahamic religions have been infiltrated by Satanists, and that is what I've said. So they've decided to pull apart only the piece where I'm talking about Judaism and not where I'm speaking about all of the faiths having been infiltrated and speaking about how it's important for everyone to recognize this so that you can realize that I THINK THAT THERE IS THIS SORT OF SATANIC CULT THAT'S OPERATING WITHIN ALL OF THE FAITHS AND I THINK THAT THEY USE CHRISTIANS AND THEY USE JEWS AND MUSLIMS AS WELL.

38:15I 'VE SAID THAT ON MY SHOW MULTIPLE TIMES SO HE'S JUST ABSOLUTELY LYING ABOUT THAT. I THINK THE DIFFERENCE HERE IS THAT YOU COULD NEVER, YOU'D BE HARD-PRESSED TO FIND A CATHOLIC THAT WOULD IN ANY CAPACITY DEFEND PEDOPHILIA. THE CHARGES OF ANTISEMITISM ARE KIND OF GOING THROUGH THE EXACT SAME ROUTINE THAT THE CHARGES OF RACISM DID BACK WITH BLM. you're a white supremacist, you would have just been astonished because who wants to be called a white supremacist? But then you started to realize this was about power and this was about control and this was about trying to manipulate people to take your perspective.

38:46And post-October 7th, you know, you had a, what I refer to them as like the Likud party media in America, I count the New York Post among them, who just insisted that unless you agreed with everything that Bibi Netanyahu was doing and towed a very specific line, they were going to smear and LIBLE YOU AND RUIN YOUR LIFE. AND, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE, I THINK, SHIRKED AT THAT AND KIND OF WANTED TO KEEP THEIR HEAD LOW. I DIDN'T PLAY THAT GAME WITH MY OWN COMMUNITY. I WAS WILLING TO TAKE ALL OF THE FIGURATIVE BULLETS WITH BLACK AMERICA CALLING ME A RACE TRAITOR, A SELF-HATING BLACK PERSON, WHATEVER IT WAS.

39:17I DON'T VIEW JEWISH PEOPLE TO BE SOME EXCEPTION WHERE YOU'RE ALLOWED TO NOW CALL EVERYBODY ANTISEMITES BECAUSE YOU CAN'T ACTUALLY DEBATE WHAT Bibi Netanyahu IS DOING AND WHY SO people around the world are not comfortable with it. So yes, they can award that all they want. People are mocking it. It's now become like cartoonish. And they have unfortunately or fortunately completely removed the power from that term. What is your view of Jewish people, of Judaism? Yeah. For the record, what's your view? My view is that, you know, Judaism is a faith. Israel is a state. It is not above critique. And that what Bibi Netanyahu has done to the Palestinians 6th October 7th is a Holocaust.

39:57It is a Holocaust that is being committed on Palestinian children and women. And I'm not going to quiet my perspective on that, you know, to kowtow to whatever the prevailing narrative is at the New York Post. I had Dan Bilzerian on on Censor recently. I got to say, it took a pretty shocking turn, the interview. I hadn't fully factored in just how, in my opinion, after talking to him, brazenly anti-Semitic he is. And this included this clip here. Do you not understand why Jewish people might feel a sense of victimhood, given that six million of them were killed in World War II by a genocidal monster in the Holocaust?

40:35Do you not understand why that might make Jewish people feel that, yes, they have indeed been victims? Yeah, I mean, that figure's been revised. They said that it was four million that died in Auschwitz, and then they said it was down to a million. So they've revised the figure. Well, how many people do you think were killed in the Holocaust? 271 ,000 that died in Auschwitz. How many do you think were killed in the Holocaust?

41:01I don't know, but I would bet my entire net worth that it was under 6 million. The evidence all says that it was less than 6 million. I mean, just the mathematics don't work. You can't cremate that many bodies. I'm sorry, but I just find that unbelievably offensive. And I'm not even Jewish. You see, this is where I'm like you. I think there's been a weaponisation of all these things. Whether you're transphobic, you're racist, you're sexist, you're anti-Semitic, whatever it may be, you're Islamophobic. I mean, people just spray this stuff around all the time to the extent where it does become meaningless.

41:35And actually, people who genuinely are those things, they get caught up in the wash and almost protected by the kind of wash of stuff. But when you hear someone like Dan Bilzerian, what do you feel about someone like him? Yeah, so I actually didn't watch that interview, so I haven't seen it in its full context. And I try never to weigh in on clips because there'll be something I'm missing and then everybody screams at me. But what I will say is this. The larger discussion that's happening right now is whether or not having survived a Holocaust gives you the permission to commit a Holocaust. And for whatever reason, people have been, what I would say, milking the Holocaust narrative in the same way that black Americans were milking the slavery narrative.

42:11And essentially saying, like, we lived through this and we survived this. And so now nobody can say that anything we do is wrong. And that's the big issue today, is that we have so many people that will not recognize that it is totally feasible that a Jewish person, and I'm speaking here about Bibi Netanyahu, could do something as horrific as what was done to the Jews throughout World War II or throughout history. But is that an accurate comparison? And I'll tell you why I say that. As we know, I mean, whatever Dan Bilzerian wants people to believe, six million Jews were killed in the Holocaust.

42:41Another six million people were murdered by Hitler and the Nazis. The numbers of people being killed in Gaza are, in my view, have gone way beyond what is acceptable as a response to October the 7th. However, you're still talking about, at the moment, a death toll of under 50 ,000. There's no comparison in the amount of dead people compared to the Holocaust. Do you understand why... But it is a Holocaust, what's happening. Well, is it, though? Yes. Because I think language is really important. I think language is really important as well, and that's why... People say Holocaust, genocide, and so on.

43:13I think what's happening is a Holocaust. The burning bodies of the children that I'm seeing every day, and we spoke about this a little bit on my show, but, like, I have recognized that the ability to see this stuff every day has transformed my opinion. Maybe the numbers wouldn't have gotten so high if people had spoken up when it was happening at the very beginning during World War II. And so I want to use my platform to say that I believe that they are intentionally executing a Holocaust. I think BB Netanyahu, there's tons of evidence, and obviously the Western media is not reporting on this, but the corruption trials that are going on with BB Netanyahu pertaining to October 7th and him editing the transcripts and the prior knowledge that he knew is now becoming extremely pertinent.

43:50It is a question as to whether or not he allowed the attacks to take place, essentially, to then be able to go in and to commit this Holocaust against the Palestinians. Now, based on everything that I've looked into and stuff that I had not seen before, because the Western media doesn't cover it, Bibi Netanyahu caught off camera speaking about how he had no intention of following the Abraham Accords and how he was going to get around it. He has, I believe, genocidal ambitions, and that's enough. We don't need to dispute, go backward or forward. Do I think Bibi Netanyahu has genocidal ambitions against the Palestinians?

44:21The answer is yes. Do you think he's a war criminal? Yes. I believe he's a war criminal, and I think that the issue is how much power he has, particularly in America, and I want to make sure that I'm just crossing, or I guess, I THINK IT'S A LOT OF PEOPLE I THINK IT'S MAKING THAT CLEAR TO PEOPLE ACROSS THE POND. IN AMERICA WE HAVE LOBBYING. YOU GUYS DON'T HAVE LOBBYING HERE. WE DO BUT NOT TO THE SAME DEGREE. AIPAC SPENT$100 MILLION IN OUR ELECTIONS. THEY ARE ABLE TO WRITE FELLOWSHIPS, PAY JOURNALISTS, PAY PEOPLE TO ATTACK AND TAKE DOWN PEOPLE WHO SPEAK AGAINST THEIR INITIATIVES. And they are, AIPAC, I would say, is very much pro-Lakut party, pro-Bibi Netanyahu.

45:01And this is why you have seen people like me being attacked the way that they have been attacked for what I believe is just a human stance on what's happening to the Palestinians. I don't care if you had flipped it, if it had not been Israelis, if it had been, you know, if it had been Christians doing this to Muslims. I would say the exact same thing based on the images that I've seen. But there was a ton of evidence that Bibi Netanyahu allowed October 7th to take place, including the things that we found out, because I now read Haaretz Daily. You don't actually think he knew it was going to happen.

45:30Well, let's just talk about the facts. We don't have to speculate on that. What we do know is that they did intercept the hostage plan before it took place, right? The 250 hostages that came out in Haaretz Media. We also know that Egypt gave them prior warning that the attacks were going to take place. Egypt said that they were being ignored. That was a fact. I've been to Israel. Have you been to Israel? We know it's the size of New Jersey. We know that it takes 15 minutes to get from one end to the other, and we know that every five feet, there's a person in your face holding a gun. That attack went on for two hours without interruption.

46:00I find that hard to believe. And this gets to the, I guess you could say the nucleus of the corruption trial against him, when now he's even arguing with the IDF minister who he fired, Joav Galant, am I saying his last name correctly, where they're saying that some funny stuff happened on October 7th, and they THEY ARE EXPLICITLY ACCUSING HIM OF FEEDING LIES TO THE WESTERN MEDIA. THIS IS CRUCIAL, YOU KNOW, AND THIS COULD BE THE UNDOING OF EVERYTHING. IF WE FIND OUT THAT HE HAD PRIOR KNOWLEDGE, AND WE DO KNOW FOR A FACT THAT HE SAID THAT HE INTENTIONALLY WANTED TO TAKE OVER PALESTINIAN TERRITORY, YOU SHOULD FIND THAT CLIP AND PLAY IT ON THE SHOW BECAUSE IT'S VERY SIGNIFICANT WHEN HE ASKED THE REPORTER TO TURN OFF THE CAMERA AND THEN HE STARTS SPEAKING ABOUT HIS PLANS FOR THE PALESTINIANS.

46:43THIS WAS YEARS AGO. I THINK BABINA AND YAHOO IS A MONSTER. And I think the people that are still standing by him and supporting him, you know, I wouldn't want to have that on my conscience. Let's turn to the Palestinians, who I think have been appallingly oppressed for many decades. I've made no secret of that. But what Hamas did on behalf of the Palestinian people October 7th was an utterly heinous terrorist attack. Absolutely. No question about it. So my question would be, let's go back to October 8th. WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ISRAEL'S RESPONSE TO THAT, GIVEN THE SCALE OF IT? WELL, FIRST AND FOREMOST, THERE HAD TO BE A RESPONSE.

47:21AND WE KNOW THAT THE IDF IS VERY CAPABLE OF A SURGICAL, TACTICAL RESPONSE BECAUSE THEY 'VE DONE IT OVER THE YEARS PLENTY OF TIMES IN WHICH THEY'RE ABLE TO TAKE OUT TERRORISTS. WE JUST WATCH THEM EXECUTE A BEEPER ATTACK AND HIT OUT HAMAS TERRORISTS. SO I THINK IT'S A VERY RELEVANT POINT BECAUSE IF THEY COULD DO THAT TO 3 ,000 HEZBOLA TERRORISTS, Why couldn't they be as precise with Hamas? Because they don't want to be. They want to level it because they want to take it over. And I believe, and you can see this, by the way, in the videos of the settlers dancing. Why do they have settlers already ready?

47:50Doesn't that seem strange that this quickly you already have settlers that are going in and taking over the territory and you're hanging, you know, children's toys. What should Israel have done, though? They should have just taken out the Hamas terrorists. But how do you do that when they're embedded amongst them? Listen, I'm not an IDF minister, but what I can say is, going back to that beeper attack, It seems pretty precise. And there have been many examples of them doing that in the past. So I just don't buy the BS of like, you know, we actually just have to take down entire towers and buildings.

48:15It doesn't even make sense. I mean, I'm not an engineering major. But if you're telling me that there's a tunnel under everywhere, you only have to hit a tunnel at a couple of points to render it completely useless. So the idea that they had to level the entire place plus go out into refugee camps doesn't make any sense. Like I said, I think their goal, and as they do, they have all these policies mowing the lawn, you know, where they kill a certain amount of Palestinians every year. This is genocidal. The aims here are genocidal. Your father-in-law, very highly well-regarded man in this country, Lord Michael Farmer, he said the Israeli defense forces were acting in a highly accountable way in an extremely complex and difficult environment.

48:51We cannot forget that they have been forced to prosecute this war. Obviously a different interpretation of events there. Have you discussed this with him? Yeah, I mean, I try to separate my politics from his politics because I think it's unfair in any family to say, well, what does your mom think? What does your cousin think? What does my sister think? My sister's a Democrat, you know? What I can say is I deeply respect him. He's done a tremendous amount of work. And I want to say this, I was on the Zionist side. Let's not forget this, for years. I worked for Prager University. I worked for Daily Wire.

49:20And so I was much more sympathetic to, I would say, the Zionist cause throughout my entire career. But the differences, and I think we spoke about this on my podcast, generationally, with the access of social media, being able to see these things every day, versus the person who, as you described it, as you are still, because you're kind of a combo, who hears the thud of the newspaper and reads the newspaper and believes that, or, you know, this kind of becomes or colours their world's view, is very different. Social media completely transformed my perspective on what's happening in Israel and Palestine.

49:52Well, the massive lawsuit filed by the Macrons against Candace Owens is extraordinary and unprecedented on many levels. This is the world leader suing a US citizen for defamation in a US court. And the US citizen is not a legacy news brand or a business mogul, but a successful podcaster, which is a measure of the shifting balance of power and media. President Macron and his wife, Brigitte, accused Candace Owens of relentless worldwide bullying and a campaign of global humiliation over the repeated claim that Brigitte Macron is a man. Macron has tried other methods of warning Candace to drop the issue, including, she says, asking President Trump to call her directly, which he did.

50:30Well, so far, the main impact of the lawsuit has been to bring the Bridget claims to an even bigger audience with prominent coverage everywhere from NBC to CNN and the BBC. But many legal commentators reckon it's Candace Owens who ought to be worrying. So is she? Well, in a moment, I'll ask her, but here's a reminder of how we got here. I think you're a man. I think it's beyond obvious that you're born a man. You may want to split hairs about, well, I'm really a woman. I feel I'm inside. I'm a woman. An insulting wig that you're wearing. It's ridiculous. It's like you're laughing at us. What I'm saying is that you were born a man and you will die a man.

51:08It is very clear that Brigitte Trogneau existed. It is very clear that she was, in fact, the sister of Jean-Michel Trogneau. and I think that if I am guessing what took place here, Jean-Michel Trogneau took Brigitte Trogneau's identity at some point. It's plausible that Brigitte Trogneau got sick, that the real Brigitte Trogneau got sick and perhaps had a dying wish to help her brother. It's very early on, but I know that the process is supposed to be the pain that they want to drag this out. I can't see them wanting to make it to Discovery. I just don't see that happening. I think they'll fake kill Brigitte first.

51:50They'll be like, oh, Brigitte passed away from stress because of what Candice did. Well, the host of The Candice Show, Candice Owens, rejoins me now. Candice, how are you? I'm doing well. How are you, Piers? I'm good. Are you a woman? I am, in fact, a woman, and I certainly would never sue someone to prove to the world that that is a fact. I would probably be laughing. well how can you prove to me you're a woman if i don't believe you i wouldn't have to you could you could do 18 hours of a show saying that i was living as a man for 30 years and the easiest thing for me to do obviously would be to just release pictures of me living yearbooks me on the cheerleading team me pregnant me with my children raising my children long Long before, if I ever got to the point where I thought that I needed to launch a lawsuit, I would probably just release a few photos if we're playing devil's advocate here.

52:52Yeah, but ultimately, the easiest and quickest and best way to prove to me that you're a woman, and I'm not disputing that you're a woman, I think you probably are, but I know you like to cast doubt on people's gender and sexuality, so I'll just leave it floating, hoping that someone in the internet world grabs it and makes me tons of money with a, is Candice male or female? But my point is this. You would be able to prove it to me by taking a simple sex test, right? You would just say, here we are, here are the results, here's the sex test. That's the best way to do this, right? Actually, because we were in communication with her legal team long before she launched this website, we never asked for something that deep.

53:33We literally gave her a list of 21 yes or no questions and asked her to just answer it on the record, also offered to fly over to Paris and interview Brigitte to get her side of the story. Before we even launched the first episode of the Becoming Brigitte series, we were in communication and offered them a chance to rebut. And they came back and said, we don't have to submit anything to prove that she is a woman and we don't want to answer your questions. I've published those legal letters. It's the reason why people that watch this series are just not believing the media when they pretend that this was like, oh, Candace wanted the blood of the first lady.

54:08No. Also, she's not suing. Obviously, my series was based on a book entitled Becoming Brigitte that I did alongside the journalist who worked on the story for 10 years. She's not suing him for defamation, but she is suing him for cyberbullying, which is really, if you read through the lawsuit against me, they are misrepresenting the things that I've said, taking them out of context. and pretty much smearing me in the process by pretending that we asked something extraordinary by saying we won't run this entire series if you can just show us a few photos of you living in this 30-year period. Right.

54:45I don't think photos can be easily manipulated. We know that in the modern era. I just think a sex test is definitive. And the reason I'm asking you this is because I'm assuming... Maybe I'm completely wrong. Maybe I'm the deluded one here. I don't think so. But I'm assuming the only reason that Brigitte Macron and her husband, who's the president of France, are coming after you personally in American courts for defamation is that they know all they have to do to completely refute your entire conspiracy theory, which is what they say it is, is they just have to prove she's a woman. If she's a woman and she's had three children, miraculously, and I've seen your slightly torturous explanation for how she's managed to secretly have three kids and it wasn't her and she's a man.

55:33But I've seen what you've said. But ultimately, if she proves she's a woman, which is very easily provable, your whole case just implodes, doesn't it? Well, Pierce, it sounds like you're on our side. It's been 10 years of the press saying that she was born a woman. She sued people for cyberbullying. She sued people for speaking wrong about a document. And yet the easiest path would have just been to simply release photos from 30 years of your life. That is why this is unbelievable. You're also, I think, largely misrepresenting my series. You showed only clips of me discussing things after the lawsuit, but you didn't actually show anything from my series.

56:11I don't think my series has gripped the entire world and caused a global leader to get on a plane and beg President Trump to shut me up because I'm just sitting there going, la, la, la, she looks like a woman in a wig. No, it's a very serious subject, actually, Piers. And if you watched even the first episode of the Becoming Brigitte series, you'll understand there's an entire network of pedo criminals that are surrounding the Macron's. They have had multiple scandals regarding pedophilia that have just engulfed his presidency. And they are going after journalists. And to be clear, these were mainstream journalists, not far right podcasters or however it's being presented in the media today, that were simply trying to do a biography on the First Lady.

56:54They were supporters of her. They were feminists. They wanted to basically glorify her as the president's wife. And they fell down a dark hole. Condonash journalists, by the way. They fell down a dark hole because they felt suddenly that they weren't able to get any answers to their basic questions. this was a mainstream issue in France and so I I think you do yourself a disservice when you misrepresent it as if I'm just like sitting here going la la la she's wearing a wig uh you know show the real excerpts from the Becoming Brigitte series it's incredibly compelling no no I saw that you could could ignore that it's strange it's strange like 30 years of why would you go through all this effort when you could just drop photos of 30 years of your life where you allegedly had three children where are your children wouldn't your kids wouldn't your children come out years and defend you by just dropping pictures of their childhood with you you know her children won't do that and yet miraculously those same children let me present all right candace let me present another series of explanations for what's happened here i believe and maybe i'm wrong all right so let me put that caveat at the start here.

58:07Maybe you're right, okay? I don't think you are. I think you've been hoodwinked by these journalists who have gone on a complete fantasy trail of nonsense, trying to suggest Bridget Macro never had three children, is a man, it's all a lie, and all the stuff that you've been doing on your channel, and getting huge traffic for and making tons of money. So if you're right, it's been a magnificent display of fearless journalism exposing a bombshell revelation about the First Lady of France. I absolutely make no bones about that whatsoever. But if you're wrong, as I believe, I genuinely believe you're wrong, then it leaves two avenues of explanation for why you would pursue this so aggressively.

58:55One, you've been duped by these French journalists. And secondly, worse, you kind of know it's not true, but you've ridden the wave of conspiracy theory about it because it's been so lucrative and it's gone around the world like you've been saying. And I think that is why they're suing you, because ultimately they know that you've been amplifying this massively more than the journalists had in France, getting way more global traction, and it boils down to one simple fact. not photographs, as you keep trying to distract me with, but a sex test. If on day one of this case, she just produces an actual sex test report that says she's a woman, you're going to realise in that moment you've been completely duped.

59:43What do you do then? Piers, I'm not concerned about it, because like I said, it's been about 10 years and Brigitte could have done that at any moment. She's been in multiple lawsuits, involved in lawsuits, trying to shut journalists up. I mean, you really are asking people to defy their common sense in this moment. They know what has happened here. They know that we went to Brigitte before we started this series to get Brigitte's side of this. We were in contact with Brigitte's lawyers, the same ones that filed this case. We asked simple yes or no questions. We were not requiring a blood test.

1:00:11We were asking, can you confirm this is you in this photo from the childhood that has been produced, ironically, by a woman who was charged for forging documents? That woman's name is Mimi Marchand, and she was the first couple's PR person until she got in too much trouble for being a gangster and forging documents. They refused and declined to answer those questions. So, like I said, you are asking people at home to suspend their common sense and to truly believe that rather than answering yes or no questions, rather than maybe at first going after the author of the book, Xavier Poussard, who was a Frenchman, for defamation, that would be the first thing.

1:00:46Why don't you launch, at least at the same time, both of these suits? I'm going to go after Candace and Xavier Poussard. They are instead only going after me for defamation and not the person who sourced this entire quote unquote rumor. There is, let me tell you, Piers, too many people who have watched this series. OK, they're watching your show now and they know that you are not accurately presenting what has happened here. But also, Piers, I think you are better than defending a pedo criminal network. Right. And that's that's the biggest piece of the story is how many people around them have gone down publicly.

1:01:16They were pedophiles and were involved in this campaign in the beginning. Even if you removed the allegation, which I believe from the bottom of my heart, like I said early on, I would risk stake my entire career on the notion that she was actually born Jean-Michel Truongel. I believe that. And I'm willing to go through this because it's an important story about government deception. But even if you suspended that, you are right now defending a government that lied even about the beginning of their quote unquote love story in which his parents removed him from school because of this creepy 40 year old teacher who found a 14 year old student to be sexy or attractive.

1:01:53This is this is this is wrong. Everything that's happening right now in France is wrong and it is perverted. And as a mother, I will stand up to this. And I am confident that we will emerge as the winners of this, because in America, truth is an absolute defense against defamation. And I am telling the truth. Yeah, it is an absolute defense. And I think there are perfectly legitimate questions about how their relationship started, the massive age gap and the rest of it. I don't dispute that for a moment. But, you know, as you say, in a defamation case, it ultimately comes down to truth mattering.

1:02:26And it seems to me this whole case is going to be resolved in a very straightforward way, because the obvious way to prove that you're wrong and have been systematically lying about it, if you've been doing it deliberately or otherwise, but telling a lie about her, which has obviously caused an enormous amount of hurt, is if they just produce evidence she's a woman. Do you accept if they do that, your whole case disintegrates? Of course it would disintegrate. Well, first off, no, they would have to prove the actual malice standard in America, which would mean that we knowingly knew this. We went to them with questions and they refused to answer.

1:02:58That is very strange. You're saying you're a victim now because this series came out. And yet you had the power to stop the series when we came to you and said, we're not interested in telling any lies. We actually want to get to the truth of this story. And we asked very simple questions. Did you ever live as a woman named Veronique? I believe, yes, Brigitte McCrone, before taking on the identity of Brigitte Truckel, lived as a woman named Veronique. Why wouldn't you just answer that question and say no? If it gave you so much grief that this rumor was out there, why not respond to that effectively in the 10-year period that you had the time to respond to it?

1:03:30OK, Brigitte is not a victim. Far from that. I believe Brigitte is actually somebody who has victimized Emmanuel Macron. Emmanuel Macron is pathetic. He's absolutely pathetic for letting this go on for so long that you could easily dispel these rumors. And like I said, we were asking for photos from a 30-year period of Brigitte's life. We were not asking for blood. We were asking for simple answer yes or no. Could you show us some photos of you raising your alleged children? They failed to produce that and now are pretending that they're victims. And of course, it's that firing. Yeah, but they're under no obligation.

1:03:58Candace. Right, they're not. But don't then complain and say you had to file a lawsuit. They contacted us, Piers. You're under no obligation. We didn't reach out to them. They say... We reached out to us first. Hang on. They say they made it crystal clear to you that all your claims were wrong, right? That your basic premise that she's a man is wrong. They said they told you that before. You weren't ahead anyway. You've carried on. Even when they launched the lawsuit, you've carried on saying the same stuff, right? And it's a massive play on your part. Listen, I admire your balls. I mean, it's probably the wrong term to use, given the issue we're discussing.

1:04:34But I do admire your balls, right, because you're going for it and you're doubling and trebling and quadrupling down. But ultimately, your entire reputation is now directly linked, it seems to me, to whether Bridgette Macra is male or female. If she proves she's a woman, where does that leave you? If she was going to prove she was a woman, she would have done it over the last 10 years. And like I said, they came to us first and we said we will not publish this series if you answer questions, okay? So they were on the offense in that moment. I didn't go to them and go, I deserve a response to this.

1:05:07They had their lawyers email us speaking about this question. And so I have been completely honest and transparent with my audience. This matters to me because I'm a mother And there are too many people around them that have been charged with pedophilia, many who have admitted that they were pedophiles, not even just pedophiles, incestuous pedophiles, people that molested their children that are surrounding them. Even the lawyers that they're dealing with are lawyers that defend pedophile and incest, preferring it to as happy incest when children are molested by their fathers. That's their current lawyer who has attached himself to this case in France, Eric Dupont Moretti.

1:05:41Everywhere you look, you see a story regarding incest and pedophilia that surrounds this couple. I have presented that to the public. And if you are going to pretend that they have not lied, Pierce, a couple of weeks ago, when Brigitte smacked Emmanuel Macron on camera on the plane, the L.A. Z. Palace answered and said that it was Russian propaganda and that it never happened. They lie all the time. And it's very easy to lie in France, where they have laws against speech and laws against cyberbullying and where journalists are afraid. It's not so easy to lie in America. I'm glad they brought this to my turf because now the French people are watching and cheering knowing that this couple has lied to them from the very beginning.

1:06:20They are due for an exposure. And no, I do not believe that she is going to be able to now or willing to suddenly prove that she is a woman when she could have done that for the last eight years. OK, tell me about the phone call from Donald Trump in which he tried to get you to drop all this. Yeah, certainly. I received a phone call. And to be clear, this was on the very same day that Emmanuel Macron visited the White House, ostensibly to discuss Ukraine and Russia. I received a phone call at first from a third party saying that, and what I was told was that Emmanuel Macron, who was negotiating in good faith regarding an end to the Ukraine and Russia war, which would have required his signature on some EU stuff, was holding up stuff because he wanted Trump to speak to me, to get me to stop talking about Brigitte Macron.

1:07:10Again, very odd measure when we already said that we would stop speaking about Brigitte Macron. If you had simply answered our questions, you could have stopped this. And then the next day, or maybe it was in 48 hours, I received a phone call from Trump himself. He obviously is not was not following the series. He is not someone who I think watches a bunch of podcasting shows. But he said he was very confused when Emmanuel Macron took him to the side of a car and brought this up, asked him if he knew him, asked me to stop speaking about his wife, wanted him to get in touch with me to make that happen.

1:07:42Again, that's an extraordinary effort for a state leader to get on a plane and speak to another state leader to shut up a podcaster in America when all you have to do to dispel the rumors is to tell the truth and answer the questions. It's so easy. It's so easy to do that. I would never let it get to a point where I had to sue a podcaster in France. Well, I told him in the short run while they were having those negotiations that I I wouldn't say anything, which is why we didn't report on it for, I think it was about four months or five months later. And that then afterwards, once they were done having those discussions, that I would reach out again and tell the person that I was going to speak about it publicly on my platform, because obviously I believe in free speech.

1:08:27I mean, it's a fascinating situation that you've got a world leader coming after a podcaster. That, on its own, is fascinating. IT'S NOT A BIG FOLLOWING, BUT IT'S BECAUSE YOU HAVE SUCH A BIG FOLLOWING AND BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE, FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, THAT UNLIKE THE FRENCH JOURNALISTS WHERE THEY WERE GETTING A SMALL AMOUNT OF TRACTION BUT NOT VERY MUCH, IT'S ONLY WHEN YOU EMBRACED THIS WHOLEHEARTEDLY AND BEGAN TO DO THIS AS A BIG SERIES ON YOUR VERY POPULAR SHOW AND CHANNEL THAT AT THAT POINT THEY REALIZED THIS WAS GOING AROUND THE WORLD AND THEY HAD TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT AND THEY 'VE LAUNCHED THIS UNPRECEDENTED ACT.

1:09:06I JUST CAN'T, I MEAN, LOOK, AGAIN, I MIGHT BE WRONG, BUT I CANNOT IMAGINE A SCENARIO WHERE THE PRESIDENT AND THE FIRST LADY OF FRANCE LAUNCH AN ACTION LIKE THIS UNLESS THEY ARE 100 % CERTAIN THAT THEY ARE RIGHT, THAT SHE IS A WOMAN. OKAY, THEN CAN YOU ANSWER WHY? YOU'RE SAYING IT'S BECAUSE I'M BIG. THEY 'VE GONE AFTER SMALL JOURNALISTS, RIGHT? THEY JUST LOST IN THE UPPER COURTS AGAINST THE INITIAL JOURNALIST THAT BROUGHT THIS FORWARD FOR defamation. If you lost this on your home court, why would you take this lawsuit overseas? It doesn't make any sense, right? There had to have been some evidence presented, which they only presented an expired ID, which is completely ridiculous, an expired voting ID.

1:09:46So you're telling me that you're not going to go after, you lose the journalist on your home court, but you take this now overseas because I'm a bigger journalist. And to be clear, Piers, Xavier Poussard, they did launch a legal action against him on the same day they launched illegal action against me. Okay. But they're not suing him for defamation. They are suing him for cyber bullying. So I got all of my information sourced from Xavier Poussard's book. I did a presentation on Xavier Poussard's book. And yet you don't go after Xavier Poussard for defamation and he lives in France. Why is that?

1:10:17The answer to that question is because Xavier Poussard has been on the offense against them. He won in the courts to have her sake choir, which is sacred Hart is where Brigitte Macron allegedly went to school in high school. He won for them to release the, we would call it in America, a yearbook, which would have had a photo of Brigitte Macron in it. The school is refusing to give it to him. So the court would have to at first acknowledge the actions that this brave journalist brought against Brigitte Macron to expose this story before they would acknowledge her actions against him. They are being very cunning in how they're dealing with this.

1:10:51They launched this lawsuit because they failed in their first affirmation efforts. So they thought if they launched an even bigger lawsuit as a PR move, and to be clear, Piers, this is not all that they've done. We have evidence that they hired a crisis PR team here in the United States before I launched my first episode of Becoming Brigitte. When they were in communication with us back in January, they used a UK firm and they contacted that UK firm and had them go out to find a crisis PR team in America ahead of my series. Why would you do that? It's completely crazy. You're in contact with us.

1:11:25You have the power to stop this series. If, as I believe, you are completely wrong and you end up losing this case, would you accept that everything you've been doing, if she establishes to the world she is a woman, that everything you've been doing would constitute, in that eventuality, a very cruel, vindictive campaign of bullying against a woman challenging her very... I would have never done this. Like I said, I was not interested in being the crusader against this because I went to them and I said, if you answer these questions, we will not run the series. I'm only interested in truth. I only went after the story because I was shocked by the pedo criminal network, which surrounds them.

1:12:11It's shocking. OK, there are real children being harmed right now in Paris and there are real citizens that are being gaslit about these circumstances. I don't know many people who can say, all of my homies are pedophiles, but it just keeps happening by accident. This is a very big story in France, and the people in France are behind me for a reason, Piers. Like I said, this would not have been a globally impactful series if I was just up there flipping my hair saying, well, it kind of looks like her wig is bad. We presented a lot of evidence. Xavier presented a lot of evidence. And I believe in my heart of hearts that she is not only a groomer and a creep for the relationship that she began with Emmanuel Macron when he was just a student and 14 years old in that play, but also that they are liars that are leading this country, France, down the drain.

1:13:00Truly, I believe it's in my heart that Brigitte Macron was born a man, was born a child, actually not a man, but born a male named Jean-Michel Truongneau. And everything that they have done has only further led me to that conclusion because they are not behaving as though truth is on their side. You don't try to silence journalists. Well, last time we discussed this on Uncensored, I bet you$150 ,000 that you were wrong and that she's a woman. On X, when we discussed this further, I doubled it. This is for charity, to$300 ,000. You haven't accepted that yet. So right now,$300 ,000 to charity. I say she's a woman.

1:13:46Are you prepared to take that bet? I am 1 ,000 % prepared to take that bet. I actually didn't see your tweet, or I would have accepted it live. So we can totally accept that bet. I believe Brigitte Macron is a male and that they will not be presenting any evidence to the contrary because they would have done it already. OK. Candice, I appreciate you coming on Uncensored. I think you're completely wrong, but we shall see. I think the great thing about this action is we're going to get to the bottom of this extraordinary story. Thank you very much indeed for coming back on. I'll be back to get my money, Piers.

1:14:22We shall see. I'm very confident.

1:14:46Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.