"Coming To YOUR Cities" Bondi Beach Terror & Israel 'Blame Game' | Feat Miss Palestine

27:21It is the... It is the state of Israel and its outriders.

27:26Piers Morgan:Well, do you mean the government? I mean, because if you say the state of Israel, That is the whole of Israel. Right. So I presume what you're saying is that whatever the current government is at any given time, a bit like the government in the UK or the government in America, doesn't necessarily represent more than a slight majority of the country, right? If they win an election, maybe nearly half the country votes against them. So is that what you're saying? Because when you say the state of Israel all the time, you could be implying all of Israel. Well, OK, here we come to a distinction, Pierce, because I watch your show regularly and I know that you often want to make the distinction between the government and the state, and that's fair enough.

28:02So I'm happy to say for the context in this conversation, the government, but I would just point out to you, and maybe this is a conversation for another time, that the state of Israel has always been a settler-colonial project and that every government has always subscribed to the view that the Palestinians are a nuisance that need to be removed. But we can discuss that another time. Well, but, Kieran, it's actually this mentality that you just put on display. This mentality that is not separating the people in the state as to why the terrorist attack happened. I don't intend to interrupt you.

28:32Piers Morgan:I just want to finish my last point. Finish your point, then Samara can respond. The state of Israel, or let's say the government of Israel and successive governments of Israel, because I can find you evidence of every single government in Israel saying this, tries to conflate Judaism, Jewishness with Israel. And so when the government of Israel commits acts of genocide, of course, that then opens the ground, opens the space for psychotic, deranged anti-Semites to say, look, even the government of Israel is saying it, they are one and the same. We know they're not one and the same. But as I repeat my initial point, responsibility lies with the individuals who carried out this atrocity.

29:13OK, Samara? This type of attack doesn't just happen overnight. Australia was at a boiling point because of months, give it years, of unchecked anti-Semitism that was happening on the streets. The prime minister was remaining pretty silent about it until today. And this is now what's happened. You don't just grab a gun and start shooting Jews like fish in a barrel because you're a psycho and you just feel like it. This is sort of the amalgamation of a really, really dark and insidious Islamic extremism that has kind of come into Australia and started rotting it. I mean, I can't think of a more Australian place for something so un-Australian to happen.

29:56And it's just ridiculous that you would say, oh, there's no difference between the state and the people. That is precisely what has happened, where they have bunched the state and the people together, and now children are dead, Kieran. Can I come back on that just briefly? I'm saying the opposite to you. I'm saying, first of all, that there is a clear distinction between the state of Israel. It is a state. And the individuals that maybe live in that state or identify as Israeli in the world or are Jewish. There is a distinction. Your point is that there is no distinction, that Zionism is Judaism and vice versa.

30:30Zionism just means believing in the right for Israel to exist. I mean, I don't want to go over it again and again, but you keep acting as if it's some sort of horrible tag. There's no right for a state to exist, first of all.

30:38Piers Morgan:Well, let me go to somebody who's actually in the state of Israel, which is Jonathan Gunrickers. Jonathan, welcome back to Uncensored. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for$15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three-month plan equivalent to$15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available.

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31:14Piers Morgan:Again, let's just make it clear that what happened was one of the most disgusting attacks in recent times on a group of people, including a Holocaust survivor, a 10-year-old girl, innocent Jews going about celebrating Hanukkah on a beach on one of the safest beaches imaginable in the middle of Bondi in Sydney. I've been there. It's a fun, happy, sun-kissed place that will now be forever scarred by what happened there. And they were just intent, this father and son pair of extremists, on killing as many innocent people as they could possibly kill. First of all, we've talked a lot in the last two years.

31:56Piers Morgan:What was your reaction on a personal level to what happened? Yeah, hello again, Piers, and hello to my fellow panel members. I visited Bondi Beach for the first time a few months ago, and it was part of a speaking tour in Australia. I met with Jewish communities in, as you said very correctly, Melbourne and Sydney, and I spoke with politicians in Canberra. And when I interacted with Jews there, my impression was of people who knew that they were living in paradise, which I think modern Australia is. It's a beautiful country that works well. People are nice and friendly and respectful of others.

32:41But the Jews there, many of the Jews, not all of them, but many of the Jews told me that, listen, we feel exposed. We are afraid to have any external sign of Jewishness. We are afraid when we send our kids to the Jewish school. And we are concerned about our safety when we're out and about on the streets and when we are at synagogue. And one of the main reasons is because law enforcement, police officers, simply stopped doing their job, and politicians gave tailwind to extremists who were taking over the streets in Australia. And I'll remind everybody watching who's trying to whitewash Islamist terrorism that Palestinians, Hence, Hamas supporters, Muslims, and other people were out chanting, gas the Jews, in Sydney by the Opera building on October 8.

33:38And that was before Israel had done anything in retaliation to the atrocities that Hamas perpetrated on October 7. And then those marches were allowed to continue every Sunday in Melbourne, in the local parliament office and multiple times in various locations in Sydney and in various Jewish neighborhoods. There have been at least 20 attacks, hate crimes on Jewish locations in Australia. Most, if not all of them, have gone completely unanswered by the Australian authorities. And Jewish people, what they've been saying is, we are exposed. Our blood is now okay to be hunted. And yes, there's no empirical connection that proves that these two Islamists or this ISIS-inspired murderers, the son and father duo that murdered 15 people, that they were directly linked.

34:39But I think that the atmosphere matters. I think that when the Australian government goes ahead while Israel is fighting a war against Hamas and says, we are going to put our chips behind Hamas and draw a direct connection between October 7 and Palestinian statehood, and we are going to be virtue signaling that we are all so benign, progressive, and developed, and we are going to put our diplomatic support behind Hamas and the Palestinians. That is an enabler for terrorism. And I remember myself saying it in the Grand Synagogue of Sydney, and I remember speaking about it with Australian officials in Canberra, saying that, my dear fellow members of a democracy, you are creating a very problematic situation that is enabling and legalizing and allowing the killing or the targeting of your citizens.

35:38They are first and foremost Australians. They are loyal patriots. They pay their taxes. They're proud of their country. They love their country. And I think my response was, sadly, I was not surprised. This was in the works. This was coming. And I think that Australian authorities have a lot to answer for.

35:56Piers Morgan:Okay. Sammy Hamdi, let me bring you in here. You know, there's a lot of people who think that there are from one and a half to two billion Muslims, depending on what figures you want to believe, but obviously a massively larger number of Muslims in the world than the 15 million Jews. And it doesn't take a big percentage of those, of the Muslim population of the world, to be radicalised against Jews and want to kill them all for it to become a very terrifying place quite quickly to be Jewish. the world and a small place. What do we do about this? I mean, clearly, this father and son, they've been in Australia, they don't appear to have sent too many red flags.

36:39Piers Morgan:The son, apparently, a few years ago, hung out with some slightly dodgy people, but it certainly wasn't like he was running around with ISIS flags or anything. The father was part of a shooting club. He seemed to have assimilated pretty well. You know, it's not like it was an obvious thing. It may turn out that there were obvious red flags, but as things look at the moment, It doesn't appear to be glaringly obvious that they've been radicalised. What do we do here? What do you feel is the best way to try and stop this kind of radicalisation where people just suddenly decide, I'm going to be ISIS and kill every Jew I can see?

37:15Piers Morgan:Piers, thanks very much for having me. I think you've tried to bring the discussion to the crux of the issue. I think, first and foremost, there's no justification for what happened. It's a heinous and disgusting crime that took place, and my thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the victims themselves. And I think that the question that you're asking is, are the events in Gaza influencing in any way whatsoever the rise in anti-Semitism and, indeed, the potential for these acts to take place? Well, that's partly it. I mean, I would say that it's a double-pronged question. One is that, which is the current events of the last two years, have they made it more or less safe to be Jewish around the world?

37:53Piers Morgan:But, secondly, this was all going on for a long time before. I mean, ISIS and other groups like it were attacking and targeting Jews for several decades in this century. There's been a rising tide of anti-Semitism and violence against Jews in the last 20-odd years. So it's two-pronged. One, it was going on a long time before this, and has the war in a horrible way been a catalyst for it to be accelerated? And I think that you've hit the nail on the head, particularly when you bring up ISIS, who've killed far more Muslims than any other religion on this earth. Huge victims, huge numbers of victims that were committed by ISIS.

38:30I remember when ISIS used to say that, oh, we're going to go towards Israel and the like, and there was this famous meme that said, okay, but you guys are in Iraq and Syria, Israel is that way. Why do you keep killing all these Muslims over here? The reason why I mention this is that when you look at the world as it is today, think about what everybody is seeing on their phones on a daily basis. They're seeing six-year-old Sidra with her legs blown off and the blast of the bomb means that her corpse is hanging on the wall inside Gaza itself. And then we have people coming out and saying, this is justified, this is a war, casualties happen in war.

38:59We see Hind Rajab, a six-year-old girl, who's in a car, desperately calling for help, saying, I'm scared, my family around me are dead. The ambulance comes to rescue her, the Israelis bombed the ambulance, and she dies surrounded by the corpses of her family in the cold. You see Reem, a five-year-old girl, being hugged by her grandfather, Ruh al-Ruh, the soul of my soul. and everybody is looking at these images one by one and the destruction. And Shifa Hospital, where a certain ex-IDF spokesman goes in and makes up a video and tries to show that there is some sort of terrorism that is taking place and the like that somehow justifies what's happening to the Palestinians themselves.

39:32And the reality is that, Piers, this does create... I didn't interrupt you. If you could give me some time just to speak, I've been waiting for a while to speak, my dear friend. You will have the ability to talk. You will have the right to talk. to you. But if I could just finish. You are lying. Jonathan, let him finish.

39:48Piers Morgan:Let him finish, please. Piers, if you're lying. Yeah, but he's lying. He's blatantly lying. It's not something that I can condone. Piers, if you don't mind, just one second. Jonathan, you will have time to speak and you've been here many more times than I have. The reality is that when people are seeing all of these images in America, in Paris, in Berlin and the like, and they're asking Piers, they're saying, what crime did that child kill? You were with Tucker Carlson, Piers, the other day, who said to you, what crime did that child commit that she should be killed? What crime did the child six-year-old who's now in Doha, having been evacuated from Gaza, who has three limbs blown off and has only two fingers left in hand.

40:19What crime did she commit whereby she should have been bombed and been in this particular situation that she finds herself in? And when they turn on Piers Morgan, uncensored, and Piers, by the way, I will say your tweet yesterday was phenomenal when you called him the Bondi hero, trying to cut the crossroads in which people were trying to stoke hatred and the like. But when people come on and they turn on the news and they find justifications for what's happening. They find people saying, listen, it is what it is. You just have to get over it. It's natural for hatred to fester in such hearts that results in a heightened sense of hatred, not just anti-Semitism, but Islamophobia and hate against people around the world.

40:54What was magnificent about what Ahmed Al-Ahmed did, he rejected that hatred. He rejected that hatred that festered in people's hearts. He said, this is not the world I want to be part of. This is not the world as it should be. I believe in a better world. Even if it is these wretched individuals who claim to be Muslim, who are shooting Jews, who are innocently celebrating their Hanukkah, I reject a world where this is Muslim versus Jew. I believe in a world where there is genuine humanity. And now that is the video that's going viral. That's the video, Piers, that you spread. That's what you called him, the Bondi hero.

41:25He's given hope where the Israelis and the extremists on all religions were decimating that hope. When we see those images of those 80 % of Gaza destroyed peers. And you're seeing it on the images and the UN resolutions keep getting vetoed. The ICC says arrest the war criminals and we receive news that the British government wants to defund ICC because they won't remove the Netanyahu arrest warrant. The ICJ says there is a genocide. Peers, I'll just finish on this point. Peers, we're human. We have hearts. It doesn't matter what color or religion you are. When you see those images, Peers, do they not rip your heart out?

41:58Peers, do they not make you weep? What crime did this person commit that justifies this sort of destruction? And I will say this. I will not allow the tragedy of these innocent victims in Bondi Beach to be politicised. We should do them a... We do them a disservice to politicise it. You know what?

42:16Piers Morgan:You can weep, as I did, over the appalling scenes on October 7th. Of course. Of course, Piers. Of course. And you can weep at some of the... And the civilian deaths, all of it condemning. Let me finish. and you can weep over some of the appalling images of the suffering of the children in Gaza and you can weep at the appalling images that came out from Bondi Beach. Well said. It's all appalling. Miranda Devine, let me bring you back in here. This has been... I mean, for the whole of this century, really since 9-11... You know, I know you spent a lot of time in New York and I was in New York about a week after 9-11 and I remember how traumatic that was for New Yorkers, for Americans, and then we had the war on terror with all the collateral fallout from that.

43:00Piers Morgan:And now we've got to this dark place where even somewhere like Bondi Beach becomes a massacre site. What's the answer to all this, do you think? Today's show is sponsored by Oxford Natural, makers of the Optimum Day and Optimum Night all-natural supplements. Thousands of Brits and Americans are already taking them with incredible results. Optimum Day boosts your energy and supports weight loss throughout the day. Optimum Night helps you relax and get deep refreshing sleep. They have countless success stories, including from some very familiar faces. England legend Michael Owen, who lost£40. AFTV's Robbie, who lost more than£100.

43:40Piers Morgan:To watch their full stories and many more, scan the QR code on your screen or visit OxfordNatural.com slash peers. And here's the best part. Use the code peers and get 70 % off your first order. You're 70 % off with the code PEERS. Well, I just look back on the last two years in Australia and the stories that I'm told by Jewish friends who no longer feel safe in Sydney, which was a safe haven for many Holocaust survivors and now their descendants. And they felt that they had a government that was playing footsies with the anti-Semites. And anti-Semitism is really due hatred. And hatred of anybody is terrible.

44:28And the government of Australia, because of its own cynical political electoral decisions, because many of their ministers rely on those electorates that are in south-west of Sydney that are mainly Muslim. And so for those reasons, they were loathe to do the right thing and stand up for the Jews who were being spat on and assaulted and firebombed and graffitied. And, you know, as we were just saying, the memorial service a day after the October 7 atrocity in Israel, we had people invade it and say, gas the Jews, F the Jews from the river to the sea, you know, globalise the Intifada. Well, they globalised the Intifada in Bondi Beach on the weekend, and that is not what Australians want.

45:26And I think that the government of Australia has been complicit because it has appeased the hatred, and you cannot do that. For instance, Antony Albanese, the Prime Minister, he was asked and begged by Jews in Australia who were being attacked and fearful for their lives to have an envoy for anti-Semitism. Well, he did that, but he also at the same time put up an envoy for Islamophobia. It's not Islamophobia that is the problem. Islamophobia is a made-up term to try and soften the anger that people had against the Islamist attacks after 9-11. And many Australians were victims that day and in subsequent terrorist attacks.

46:16And yet Australia is still, was still, a very harmonious country and you had people like our hero who lived happily among his neighbours and felt strongly enough that he wanted to go and risk his own life to save them. So that's the way Australia has been. Islamophobia is not a problem, and yet there we have the government appeasing a small amount of Jew haters. That's all we can call them.

46:47Piers Morgan:Yeah, and you know, Miranda, I remember after October 7th, I remember either the Saturday or Sunday, so the day after or the two days after, walking down Kensington High Street in West London. And there was a mass crowd spilling out into the streets, several thousand people. Many of... And I assumed, because it was near the Israeli embassy, I assumed this was in support of the victims. It was the opposite. It was a pro-Palestinian march, but it was striking. shocking the number of pro-Hamas flags that were being brazenly waved around, the chanting that was going on. And I was really shocked to my core that that was happening within 24 to 36 hours in a street near me in London.

47:39Piers Morgan:And that's why I think that those who say this has all been a reaction to what the Israeli government's done, that isn't true either. You know, a lot of people were waiting for a catalyst to show how they really felt. and if you support Hamas, you just want to kill all the Jews. That's their mantra. Let me bring... I will come to you, Jonathan, but, Kieran, you want to come in here? Well, first of all, I want to say very directly to Jonathan, down the line from Tel Aviv there, Jonathan is a spokesperson for the IDF... No, he's not anymore. Well, he was a very senior spokesperson... Yeah, but he hasn't been quite some time.

48:15..for the IDF. It's irrelevant.

48:16Piers Morgan:It's not relevant whether he currently is or not. Well, he was a very senior... Go on, say what you want, I'm listening. No, that's fine. I will. Thank you. A very senior IDF spokesperson, which means that he has been directly responsible for many, many deaths and much murder of Palestinians, whether it was after October 7th or before. Because, by the way, and this relates to what I wanted to say, Pierce, this conversation is in many ways astonishing. It's as if history began on October 7th. And I know that many people on this call would like that to be the case. But it's not the case. The reality is that Israel has been slowly destroying Palestine and Palestinian statehood and Palestinian life, much of it completely innocent, for almost 80 years.

49:03And so to have us here, I mean, we need to take, I think there needs to be a bit of perspective. It's astonishing to me that we're trying to say that this unlinked psychopath, anti-Semite, and his son in Australia, cruelly and abominably picking off Jewish people on Bondi Beach, is somehow related to people waving Palestinian flags and opposing the genocide that Jonathan helped doctor the evidence... Hang on. Hang on. Hang on.

49:34Piers Morgan:Jonathan, I'll bring you in, but what I would say is, Actually, it's not a massive leap, is it? If people... If we tolerate, on the streets of London and Sydney and New York, if we tolerate people supporting prescribed terror groups like Hamas, which a lot of them have been doing, if we tolerate that, you are sending a message to the world that that's OK. Piers, there is... They're a prescribed terror group. They are banned in this country. I understand that. Publicly supporting Hamas in this country is a criminal offence. But, Piers, OK, but you are doing mental, Jim. gymnastics with respect.

50:07No, I'm not. Well, you are in the sense that, first of all, I have never, I'm half Palestinian. I've never supported Hamas, never as any member of my family. And by the way, a point I always want to make to you, Pierce, is, well, look what's happening in the West Bank. There's never been Hamas there. So the idea that it's all because October 7th happened and Hamas is clearly palpable nonsense. But let me just briefly say, it is that the evidence that people on the streets of London and Sydney and other places are supporting Hamas en masse doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. The vast, vast, overwhelming share of people showing up on the streets with Palestine flags are totally Jewish-inclusive and anti-Zionist.

50:49Jonathan, come in. Yeah, so I think we can cut through a lot of the lies and the allegations, and I think it's really ridiculous to blame me about anything. You try to normalise the terms here and to try to cement reality as if Israel has perpetrated any heinous crimes. That is nonsense. That's a blatant lie. It is just a mouth... Nobody believes that anymore. It is just as much of a lie. Nobody believes you. You're talking to yourself. I don't care what you think. I don't care what you think. I know you don't, and that's the problem. I don't care what you think, and I didn't interrupt you. I didn't interrupt you while you were spewing your little nasty lies and whitewashing Hamas and Palestinian terrorists and as you were spinning your, spinning your tails of victimhood of which Palestinians definitely are the best in the world.

51:43But I'll tell you something. I can understand your frustration since you claim that you are half Palestinian. I don't know what the other half is and frankly it doesn't matter. It's irrelevant, isn't it? But since you say that you're half Palestinian, since you're half Palestinian, I can understand your frustration because you and your forefathers had an opportunity to a state and you and your forefathers missed that opportunity. You don't lie convincingly. And you and your people are the only ethnic group that have been given continuous chances time and time again to make peace, to end the conflict.

52:18I've heard it all before. Listen, everybody knows that you're lying about the atrocities. That is what you and your people have done. Israeli governments have offered Palestinians four peace deals. Four times have Israeli prime ministers made serious proposals. I hope they're paying you well. We're going to be out of energy by the end of this. We've heard this all before. It's a playbook. We know it. Here's land. Here's a capital. And let's end the conflict. And what have your representatives done? They have said, no, that isn't enough. We want it all. We want it from the river to the sea. and that is what you and your people continue to ask.

52:58Piers Morgan:OK, let me bring in Samara. You were born in Melbourne. This is a very personal thing to have happened, I think, to everyone from Australia. It's a small country, only 27 million people, about a third of the size of the UK and a twelfth of the size of the United States. When you get an attack like this, it attacks the psyche of the country. When you talk to people back in Australia, what is the mood, do you think? Australia will never be the same, Piers, genuinely after this. Look, I mean, anti-Semitism is rife. I'm with you. I don't think all Muslims should be deported tomorrow. But I think that we have for too long, you know, walked on eggshells around Islamist extremism.

53:39And unfortunately, yes, as Miranda says, it has turned up on the shores of Australia. Now, countries like the UAE, Jordan, Egypt, they don't put up with Islamist extremism. They shut it down and lock it up immediately. And the West... These authoritarian regimes are your models. They're not our models. They're your examples. But for too long, the West has pussyfooted around... A democracy is supposed to follow Abu Dhabi. A democracy is supposed to follow Amman and supposed to follow Sisi in Cairo, who has thousands of people in his prisons torturing them left-right centre by Amnesty and Human Rights Watch.

54:11Mohammed bin Zayed is committing a genocide in Sudan. Mohammed bin Zayed, who is slaughtering in Sudan. It's your example. You've come in with the British people. You've become people with British people. If Muslims can do it, why can Christians do it? You didn't quote France, you didn't quote Germany, you didn't quote any of these European state democracies. Yes, because they are not... If Muslims can do it, why can Christians do it? Brutal regimes. Before I came into the studio... And now the news...

54:34Piers Morgan:Her answer, please. Before I came into the studio, the FBI revealed that they have just foiled four plots of Islamist extremism that were planned for New Year's Eve in Los Angeles. This is an issue that is wrapping its ugly fingers around the West and it's going to take over if we don't have a hard-lined approach to it. And the reason I don't mention Germany or France or any of those countries is because they also have a soft-touch approach to it. And look what's happened there. It is not guns, as Anthony Albanese wants you to think, that have infiltrated this. We have the strictest gun laws in some of the strictest gun laws in the world, actually.

55:10It is Islamist extremism that plows, you know, cars into Christmas markets, that drives planes into buildings. That is what is rotting the West at the moment. That is true.

55:20Piers Morgan:I mean, I don't think guns are irrelevant to this story because he did have six, the father. Yeah. And if it turns out... I mean, we'll have to wait for the investigation. But if it turns out that the son, they're trying to downplay this, that if he was already on the authorities' radar for associating with people who... They've sort of been a bit vague about what they mean, but with, you know, dodgy people. If it turns out those people were part of the radicalisation and his father had six firearms in a country where that is really difficult to do, then I don't think you can rule it out. Because I always say Australia is a template for how to respond to mass shootings, actually.

56:00Piers Morgan:Because after... I mean, I'll bring... Let me bring Miranda back in here, because you will know this. But, you know, it's interesting to me... Just one comment about... One second, one second. You know, the UK and Australia were once countries where everybody had a gun. I say this to my American friends. And I say, you know, I waged my war with the NRA, it didn't work, right? They don't want to hear from a Brit what they should do with their culture. It's down to Americans to work it out, and I respect that. But I do know that Australians and the Brits always used to all have guns, if you go back 150 years or whatever it is.

56:32Piers Morgan:And then we sort of gave them up. And so it's shocking when these things happen. When Dunblane happened in 96, around the same time as the Hobart massacre, both countries brought in draconian laws about guns. And it is surprising in this case, if there was any doubt about this boy when he was 19, 20, potentially getting in with the wrong crowd, that his father had six guns. I mean, I don't think that's an irrelevant fact. What do you think? Well, I mean, the draconian gun laws have certainly worked to keep guns out of the hands of law-abiding Australians. But the gangbangers and same people, the Islamist fundamentalists out in southwest Sydney have plenty of guns.

57:21Just last month, someone, a cop I know, sent me footage of an AK-47 gunfight, 50 rounds from an automatic weapon fired into a residential house. So the gangs have got, you know, it's like New York City. In the last recorded figures, Miranda,

57:41Piers Morgan:there were only 31 gun murders in Australia between June 23 and June 24. That's the official Australian data on gun murders. In the same comparable period of the whole of 2023, according to the Pew researchers, there were 18 ,000 gun murders in America. And it's only 12 times the size. So America has 540 times the gun violence. of Australia. And in fact, gun violence in Australia, like the UK, is negligible. Well, I'll just say it's like New York City, where we have very strong gun laws. No one can have a gun, you know, under easy circumstances. And yet there in the Bronx and in the outer burbs, you have gun battles and murders with guns going on all the time.

58:34So the fact that that these terrorists on the weekend in Bondi happened to have six shotguns does not surprise me because it's the criminals in Australia that now have guns. Piers, can I just make a point here? Piers, can I make a point here, please? Jonathan, just give me one second. There was a six-year-old boy called Wadiya in America. As a result of all that was being said coming out of Israel, his neighbour became so radicalised, took a knife and stabbed this boy ten times and killed him, and the boy was in the arms of this individual. And he said, oh, Lord, what happened? When they talk about Albanese being soft, Albanese kicked out a young senator called Fatima Payman, drove her out of the party because she called it a genocide and she called for the recognition of a Palestinian state.

59:18Albanese said, there's no way I'm doing it, and he drove Fatima Payman out. Albanese ended up cancelling visas for pro-Palestinians who were coming trying to show images of genocide to Australia at the whim of an Israeli Zionist lobby that was coming out and saying, we don't want this in Australia. And when Albanese does all of that, We have three guests here who are now complaining that Albanese refuses to see what the Israelis are doing. But the point that I want to make here is this.

59:40Piers Morgan:Can I ask you a question about the genocide? And it's this. It's a tough, direct question. If Israel is waging a genuine genocide, that means they want the total elimination of all Palestinians. So far, they've killed 70 ,000 people in Gaza over a two-and-a-ve-year period. According to Hamas. Right, according to the Hamas Health Authority, whose numbers have previously been accepted by the Israeli government. So let's put that in context. But that is, out of a population of over 2 million, is a long way from eradicating a population, and yet they have the means to do it. That's why I've always quibbled with the use of the word genocide, because if Israel's government was genuinely being genocidal, why wouldn't they kill everybody?

1:00:26Piers Morgan:Can I answer that? Can I just say just one thing? It's a simple question, but I've never heard a very convincing answer. Sure, Piers, what Hitler did to the Jews is a genocide. What he did was a horrific Holocaust. But he killed six million Jews and six million more people. But thankfully, he didn't kill all of them. Thankfully, there were many thousands that survived. Thankfully, there were many of those who managed to survive to tell the tale, to tell us never again so that we would not be able to do it again. So it's almost irrelevant the point about how many do they need to kill. Hitler didn't need to kill all of them for it to be a genocide.

1:00:59He didn't need to gas all of them to be a genocide. Kieran, here you go. Just briefly before, no doubt Jonathan wants to come back in. And I do also, Piers, want to respond to what Jonathan said since he felt bold enough to talk about my forefathers. But briefly, first of all, your definition is slightly off, Piers. It's not the eradication of an entire people. It's an attempt to eradicate them.

1:01:20Piers Morgan:Well, not an attempt. No, no, an intent, not attempt. An attempt. Those are the two different things. Which the ICJ finds there's probable cause. An attempt means you try and do something. Which the ICJ finds there's probable cause. Intent means that you are intent on actually annihilating a population. Which is the ICJ found. No, there is no international court that has actually... There is no intention.

1:01:43The definition of genocide that legal scholars go by says is an attempt to eradicate a people in part or in whole. And, of course, intent, Pierce, you're right. Intent is a part of that. Now, there's plenty of evidence of intent on the part of Israel's political class. We don't even need to go in. No, there isn't. No, there isn't. Oh, come off it, Jonathan. You are bad at lying, my friend. No, no, I never heard of it. You need to go back to lying school. There is propaganda and there's nonsense and there's whitewashing from people like you, but there's no evidence of it. And then you can come back and tell all the porkies you like.

1:02:20Yeah, you just want to say this for half an hour now. You've been just saying for half an hour. Jonathan. Yeah, sure, go ahead. Everybody watching this, notice how Jonathan immediately tried to pivot away from the substance of a conversation, which is the atrocities in Australia. And immediately tried to make it about my home now, my forefathers, all of that nonsense. It's because he's trying to capitalise on these heinous murders in Australia. And I think it is nothing less than disgusting that you would come on air and try and do that.

1:02:54Piers Morgan:Shame on you. You're a very bad liar. All right. Last word to Jonathan. Yeah, right. Listen, you're not even worthy of a comment. But I think if we go back to the topic at hand of Islamist terrorism in Australia, I think we've been asking questions, some of them relevant, I think. But I think we should be listening to what's coming out of the Grand Mosque in Sydney and what main imams are saying and preaching on Fridays and in special sermons and what they're saying to their believers. They condemn Bondi categorically. Some of them are. Say it. Some of them are. They're condemning Bondi. Say it.

1:03:33Some of them are and some of them aren't. They are standing with their Jewish brethren. Some of them are and some of them very clearly are not. They condemn it. Show us the evidence. And if I'll just be allowed to finish a point here before you jump, I'll just want to make a point here because I think this connects with us having a little bit more clarity and honesty about the situation. To be clear, I do not think that every Muslim is to blame for this. That's a ridiculous thing to say. I don't think that Muslims as a whole are a problem or the problem. I think that unchecked extremism, where local authorities are either too weak or too cowardly or too ignorant to recognize, that is the problem.

1:04:15And that's a problem that permeates in England, in Germany, in Sweden, in France, in Australia, in Canada and in some parts of the US. It is the complete lack of understanding what extremist Islam is, what the dangers are to Western society, and why it behooves Western society. Muslims did not commit the Holocaust. Muslims did not impose a party. Muslims didn't slaughter the bait. Muslims didn't do the genocide in Rwanda. Muslims didn't do a part in South Africa. Muslims didn't commit the Holocaust. Muslims sent ships to Spain to bring Jews to when they were being slaughtered over there. After the Holocaust, Jews came to the Muslims in Pakistan and said, don't do to us what Europe did.

1:04:56Be fair, Jonathan.

1:04:57Piers Morgan:OK, I've got to leave it there. Miranda, I know you've got to go. Keep writing your great columns. Must read in the New York Post whenever you drop. One of the best writers... Thanks, Kevz. One of the best writers in America. And I really appreciate you all joining me. Thank you very much. Thank you. Christmas is peak time for online shopping sprees, but that also means it's peak time for hackers and data brokers who steal your information online. The solution is very simple. Use ExpressVPN to shut them down. Top-tier encryption keeps your activity hidden, even on dodgy public Wi-Fi, which is perfect for holiday travel.

1:05:32Piers Morgan:You can set your location to 105 different countries, which lets you access content from all over the world. Users save hundreds on streaming and even plane tickets with ExpressVPN, all for$3.49 a month. It's a no-brainer. I use it, and you should too. Right now, you can get an extra four months of ExpressVPN if you go to expressvpn.com slash peers. That's ExpressVPN's lowest price ever, plus four extra months of service. Just scan the QR code on the screen or go to expressvpn.com slash peers. Well, joining me now is the first Miss Palestine to compete in the Miss Universe competition, Nadine Ayyub.

1:06:12Piers Morgan:Nadine, welcome to Uncensored. First of all, your reaction to the appalling terror attack in Bondi Beach? My reaction to what happened in the Bondi attack is extremely... I feel so much for what happened to these people, and no people should have to face any form of violence. I condemn the attacks. I condemn any form of discrimination or violence. You were born in Michigan. Your parents had moved there with your family from Palestine so your brother could get medical treatment. Then they returned to Ramallah, where you lived until you were six, then you moved back to America again, then you relocated to Canada.

1:06:53Piers Morgan:So you moved around a lot when you were young, but obviously spent time in Palestine, time in America. Yes. Where are we with the aftermath of this war? There's a ceasefire, thank God, at the moment, but we don't know whether it's going to last or not, but this is just a reminder of this long-running, near eight-decade soar of the Israel-Palestine conflict. And obviously, America's been heavily engaged with Israel on this. Where do you feel we're going with this? Are we going to get to a place where there is a two-state solution, where Palestinians can live side by side with Israelis in peace?

1:07:33Piers Morgan:Or is this looking further and further away? I really hope that there will be peace, that there will be a solution, a possible two-state solution, or some way where Palestinians can really just have their human rights and human dignity. And I think the root cause of this is the occupation. That is truly where the root cause is. You know, I have, like you've said, I've lived in the States. I am an American citizen as well as a Palestinian citizen. I've lived in both places. I was raised a big portion of my life in Palestine and have lived there. And I do go there very frequently. And I work with women and children there through my foundation, helping them, helping them to reach their dreams and really help them not only just, you know, I don't want them to just be focusing on the suffering and pain.

1:08:24I want them to really focus on innovation and help themselves and grow as people. And you have so many Palestinians that want to do that. They want to learn. They want to have an education. They want to be able to freely move from one point to one point and go to their universities, be able to innovate, be able to connect to each other. But unfortunately, there are so many challenges, including having to go through checkpoints, having to go through. There are illegal settlements in the West Bank where we're unable to even move freely. We don't even have access to an airport. We have to use a different airport in another country to actually be able to access our own country.

1:08:58And so these things that are caused by the occupation really set us back in not only our wanting to survive and ability to survive, but also to thrive and innovate. And a big part of a country's economy, a big part of its social stability is for people to be able to dream and live and innovate. And we are stripped from that. And even something as simple as me going to a beauty competition has been so difficult to do. and it has been years and years of struggle to be able to just go to an international beauty competition. And this is me. This is someone who has the privilege, who can travel, who has lived in the States, has lived in Palestine, is able to move around freely to some degree and I still have my struggles.

1:09:45I still have a lot of struggles to be able to even reach my city, Ramallah.

1:09:50Piers Morgan:What was it like representing Palestine in a Miss Universe because it's not happened before? What was the experience like for you? It was an amazing experience in the sense that I was so proud to raise Palestine's voice, to show that we're not just about our struggle and pain, but we're so much beauty and culture and heritage. And I always say that culture and beauty, it's the window to really connect to the world and people. And I feel that the media has really dehumanised us. And this is actually a narrative that has been made by a lot of international media that goes for more propaganda to show Palestinians in a more inhumane way and to dehumanize us so that we're not seen as humans.

1:10:37And so unjust acts and stripping us of our human rights can be justified. And for me, the way that I fight this, the way that I use my voice for my people, and it's a way to resist through beauty, a soft type of power, to say to the world that, no, you know what, we have a lot to offer. We have so much culture and heritage. And that's what I did there. I did it through my presence, through existing, through me, through not only Nadine, but carrying all of Palestine's voice, the children, the women who want to dream, through their voices and through their art.

1:11:14Piers Morgan:What reaction did you get from the Arab world? I mean, I'd imagine it was a mixture of people celebrating people who didn't care what you were doing, people who didn't care what you were doing, but some people maybe on the more conservative side, more conservative Muslims perhaps, who were angry about you appearing in a beauty contest representing an Arab country. I imagine you've had all of these reactions. What was it like to be on the receiving end of so much critique? Well, Piers, you may be surprised, but I actually did not get any... I really didn't receive any hate or anything from conservative Muslims because, no, no, I wasn't affected at all by that.

1:11:56And I didn't see it, to be honest. I mean, I was focused so much on the positivity that I got from them. And I think they really saw it as a way through the way I represented, of course, because I did respect my culture. I did respect the way that they view things. and you know there's nothing wrong with a culture that views women in a way where you know we should be more modest or we should be somehow you know respectful of this this is a way that they respect women and um I respect that as well and actually I felt very empowered empowered respecting my culture and um I think they saw that and they truly respected that and uh they supported me And they saw it definitely as a way where I put Palestine on the map and that I was able to show the culture, the designs, the history in such a way.

1:12:42And then through my foundation, you know, I've been really showcasing the stories of Palestinian women and children who want to show a different side of Palestine. Of course, there were some things within the Miss Universe organization that were questionable. And this caused a little bit of confusion, not only for me, but other contestants. And I was surprised because, you know, I thought that maybe going onto a platform like Miss Universe, it will be a place where there is more justice, you know, because, you know, I'm coming from a place where there isn't so much justice because of the occupation and a lot of our human rights being taken away.

1:13:19But going there, you know, it was a chance to finally actually speak and be out there. But there was a lot of questionable things that happened.

1:13:30Piers Morgan:One of the things that happened as a result of your appearance was you became heavily scrutinised by parts of the media. The New York Post had a whole front page about you, which I want to discuss with you. It revealed that you had been married and had a child with the son of somebody who is considered by America to be a convicted terrorist. This is... You were previously married to Sharaf Barghouti, the son of the Fatah leader Marwan Barghouti, who is currently serving five life sentences in Israel for terror attacks that killed five people in 2001 and 2002. You had a son with Sharaf, Marwan's son, who was also named Marwan.

1:14:13Piers Morgan:Now, when this appeared, the day before, you said, I'm proud to be connected to the Nelson Mandela of Palestine. He calls for peace between Palestinians. He's a leader of Batar, not Hamas. He's not a terrorist. Terrorist is a colonial word. Mandela was called a terrorist when he was in prison, then he was a hero. Hundreds of celebrities recently came out in support of him being freed from prison. He can create peace with Israel. I'm no longer with Sharaf. We have a good relationship, though. We share a son and we co-parent. So, you know, that must have been a big thing for you to go through, to be the front page of a major newspaper in America, purportedly having this direct link to a convicted terrorist.

1:14:56Piers Morgan:I've seen your explanation. Again, what was the reaction to that story and the revelation that you had that connection to Marwan Barghouti? Well, first, I want to say that, you know, I don't usually talk about my personal life, and this is something that I always felt it's everyone's personal choice to talk about their personal life or not. and this is a right of every single human being. But since I don't have that right as a Palestinian, unfortunately, I will talk about it. And of course, I will say that I am proud of our Palestinian leader. I want to say that Marwan al-Baluti is not a terrorist and he is actually recognized by many international figures, peace figures, as the Palestinian Nelson Mandela.

1:15:41In fact, his release campaign or his campaign to be released was actually launched from Robben Island, where Nelson Mandela's cell was, prison cell. And he has the support of the Mandela family. He has the support of peace symbols, or, you know, at the time when it was launched by Desmond Tutu, Jimmy Carter's, Angela Davies. And right now, recently, actually, 200 celebrities and public figures have signed and have campaigned for his release. And he is someone that actually advocated for peace. He is a peace symbol. In fact, during his trial, he kept on saying, I am a man of peace. I go for peace.

1:16:21He did not even identify his trial to be legitimate or factual or actually legal. And it isn't. According to many international human rights organizations, even Jewish and Israeli organizations, they see his trial as illegitimate because it is a military core. How can the occupier actually have a trial for those that they occupy. They have a 99 % conviction rate. So it's obviously unfair. Even authoritative governments...

1:16:51Piers Morgan:Has he been responsible for killing people? No, he has not. There is no trial that has proved that. And he actually does not identify for the trial to be correct, and he does not face it as to be legitimate. It's been a trial. He just doesn't accept it. Of course, but the trial is from a military court, a military court that's occupying a people. And, Piers, let's look at the statistics. 99 % conviction rate. And when you're saying 99 % conviction rate, that means you know that the people going in are going to be wrongfully convicted. There is no court in this world that has a 99 % conviction rate.

1:17:28Piers Morgan:Look, I don't know Marwan Baguti personally, never met him or talked to him, But I do know there are many, many Palestinians who believe he may be the person that should lead the Palestinians out of this horrendous war. To effect that, he'd have to be released, obviously. But if that was to happen, do you think he would make a good leader of the Palestinians? I think he would make the perfect leader. And I will tell you something. After the Oswald Peace Accords, he was actually open to talking to Israelis. and he was having discussions with Israelis and Israeli government to call for peace and to have a two-state solution.

1:18:08But then the illegal settlements in the West Bank continued and then the Intifada broke out. And so he didn't, he wasn't able to continue this. But he is someone that is extremely educated. He actually even teaches in prison. I don't like to call it prison, honestly, because it is a way to have hostages. It's just a military term to call it prison, but it is a hostage place for Palestinians. And he helps Palestinians in prison be educated. He's helped them even have their master's degree, their PhD. He is a doctor himself, and he really advocates for women empowerment. I have not personally met him, by the way.

1:18:45I have shared letters with him. And the one thing he was always, always so keen on telling me about is to continue my education and to always be active in my community and to be always active in a positive way as a woman. His wife actually is the one who launched his campaign, and she is a lawyer, and he was always pushing her to continue her education. His family is extremely, extremely kind people who have not seen their father for 23 years, you know, since he's been locked up. They haven't been able to touch him, hasn't been able to see him. Can you imagine how many other Palestinians also feel this way?

1:19:25You know, they have stripped families of a male figure. They have stripped families of an extremely important base in the family, to have a male figure, a father. This has stripped our society, our social stability. And in order to have a fair society, we need to first take care of the family. Imagine how many families don't have their fathers. Now, going back to Marwan al-Barguthi, he is definitely a leader that everyone agrees for him to be the perfect Palestinian leader. And he is the only one that actually would win an election over Hamas. And so you have to question then, why does Israel want to keep him in prison when you have all of these facts?

1:20:14When he is saying that I want to call for peace and I want to call for a two-state solution, why is he still in prison? Is it that he... Does he threaten the status quo? Does he threaten that possibly there could be peace if he is out?

1:20:30Piers Morgan:Do you condemn Hamas unreservedly to what they did on October 7th? I do condemn any violence and anything that creates any discrimination against anyone. Of course, I am against violence, and this is actually against our Palestinian values. And I want to remind everyone that, you know, after the World War II, we Palestinians took them into our homes. Jewish people are brothers and sisters. And this is not a war between Judaism and Islam or Christianity. This is not a war between religions. Palestine actually is the holy land of the three Abrahamic religions. Bethlehem, where Jesus is born, is in Palestine.

1:21:14so you know we have some of the most ancient uh jewish and christian civilizations in the west bank and ghazza and did you know that the church of secular the keys of the church of secular in jerusalem you know who holds them the christians gave them to two muslim families they are the ones who hold the keys to the church of secular why is that if there is actually this war between religions? Why do these things exist? Why are these the facts that exist here? We took them in. There is a very big difference between Judaism, Zionism, and even anti-Semitism or Semitism. But I feel like the narratives really create this confusion, complexity around these definitions to kind of play with a narrative for political ideologies.

1:22:07Piers Morgan:Yeah, I think that's probably right. Let me just end with another war that's been raging, and that involves the Miss Universe contest itself. You didn't come in the top five, although many people thought you were one of the favourites to win. The ones who won, Miss Mexico won and Miss Thailand was runner-up, those are two countries, as you pointed out, who are the owners of the competition. a week after there was a walkout by Miss Mexico. Two judges resigned, one of them accusing the competition of being rigged. The whole thing looks like it was a stitch-up. Do you think you were robbed? I don't want to say that I was robbed.

1:22:49I'm not a victim, you know. I'm very proud of what I have accomplished. I've really been able to raise Palestine and do a lot of great things with the national costume and the way I represented my culture. But what I can say is that there was a lot of unfairness and injustices, of course, and there was a lack of transparency in the judging. And I will tell you this, there were a lot of judges that resigned days before the competition. And the only Arab judge, Lebanese judge named Omar Harfouche, also resigned because he said that the placements were already chosen. The top 30 was already chosen.

1:23:26They already knew who won. This was declared by the judges. And, you know, it's interesting because a couple of days before the finale, I noticed that they had on board an Israeli judge. And not that I have, you know, anything against any human being, but I just found that a little bit weird that, you know, an Israeli judge that doesn't really have anything to do with a humanitarian project was judging the Beyond the Crown, which was the Humanitarian Social Responsibility Project. And of course, my social responsibility project was about the Palestinian women and children who want help and to raise their voice and everything.

1:24:05So it was all very weird, like the way things happened. And I definitely felt an uneasiness. And it's interesting, even the whole incident with Miss Mexico at the beginning of the competition where she walked out because the organizer criticized her was also very strange. because out of all of the 122 contestants that were there, he pointed out to her to criticize. So it wasn't like she stood up by herself and there was just an argument. Like he actually went and pointed and said Miss Mexico and started criticizing her in front of everyone where she had to actually respond. Now, of course, I will never ever blame or put anything on any woman.

1:24:48I think that what she did and how she left was very important. And it was a way to show a huge stance on women empowerment. And that's why I left. But the way things happen, the system, what was planned, the behind the scenes aspect was very questionable. The transparency, where are the scores? Like, I knew that I got one of the highest scores in the closed door interview where they interviewed us about our humanitarian work, our social work, and how we speak. And I know that I got one of the highest. And this was 60 % of the judging. And so it was very interesting to me how, you know, I didn't, of course, I didn't get to top five to be able to speak.

1:25:28Piers Morgan:Yeah. Well, you would have got my vote, but I wasn't a judge, unfortunately. I've got to say, this universe organisation has rejected claims of judges who quit citing unfairness, saying no external group has been authorised to evaluate delegates or select finalists. So that was their official position. But it all looks pretty fishy to me. Nadine, thank you very much, Nadine, for joining me. I appreciate it. Thank you so much, Piers. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

1:26:07Piers Morgan:And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent Uncensored Media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you. You