'Complete INSANITY, ZERO Evidence!' Piers Morgan vs Roger Waters on 9/11 Conspiracies

0:00Piers, you're well known for being a moron, so you don't have to explain...

0:03Piers Morgan:One of us is definitely well known for being a moron, who spouts conspiracy theories. The American government, the CIA, plotted and planned the mass murder of thousands of its own citizens so they could go to war. Piers, as usual, you're just 100 % wrong. Those buildings came down by controlled demolition. We all know it. Who planted the explosives? Are you against the idea? Let me finish. No, you let me finish. No, you hang on. Don't shout me down. You always try and do that. You're the one shouting. Out of interest, you're worth a repeated 300 million. Why don't you just finish off the crowd fundraising yourself?

0:40Why don't you mind your own business?

0:44Piers Morgan:There are many legitimate unanswered questions about the circumstances surrounding 9-11, the gravest terror attack in US history, we've discussed previously on this show. It's when the answers to those questions are positive that rational inquiry can sometimes stray into crackpot conspiracies. Fair to say that Pink Floyd legend Roger Waters dabbles with both sides of that coin. A musician and activist has adopted the cause of Matt Campbell, whose brother Jeff died on 9-11. He's fighting a landmark case before the UK Supreme Court in a bid to reopen the inquest into his brother's death. And they both join me now.

1:16Piers Morgan:Well, welcome to both of you. Welcome back, Roger. So, Matt, just first of all, tell me about the tragic circumstances of your brother's death. Yeah, so my brother didn't work at the World Trade Centre. He was attending a conference run by Risk Waters on the 106th floor of the North Tower. And, you know, Geoff, along with many other British victims, because it was a British company, sadly died that day. And he was just 31 years old. I mean, a devastating moment for you, for everyone who lost somebody that day. a huge number of people whose lives were taken. At what point did you believe that you were not getting the answers you thought you should get about what happened that day?

2:11I mean, after the initial shock, which was very hard for all of us, it was actually an article that John Pilger had written towards the end of October 2001. And I think the article was called This War is a Farce. and it basically went on to sort of say that, you know, we're bombing Afghanistan, 15 of the 19 hijackers are Saudi. They seem to have done most of their training in Germany and the US, you know, and yet we're bombing people in Afghanistan. Obviously, the British... I think he wrote that for me.

2:43Piers Morgan:I was editor of the Daily Mirror and I hired him. I think that was the piece, his comeback piece, actually. I cleared the front page for Pilger. We had other people. We had Christopher Hitchens saying the opposite, but I remember Pilger returned to the Daily Mirror to write what you're talking about. Yeah, and it was also the first time I'd really thought about what was being effectively done in my brother's name and the consequences of what the Americans and obviously British were doing as a direct result of those attacks. Now, the narrative, obviously, has been that 9-11 happened and that the Americans and the British concluded a number of things.

3:29Piers Morgan:One, that the training had almost certainly happened in Afghanistan of the people that were behind this. But also there were, as a consequence of all this, that people like Saddam Hussein were running rogue states and had weapons of mass destruction and would use them and they had to be dealt with too. So the cycle of events that came out of 9-11 were extraordinarily big. And you could argue, the history will say, pretty devastating. But let's divorce that from what happened on 9-11, because that seems to me a side issue, if you like. Unless you believe, and we'll come to this with Roger in a moment, that there was a reason why they connected.

4:16Piers Morgan:like I said when you when you look to what happened and as a relative of somebody who died what to you were the alarm bells that said other than the fact that war was being waged as a retaliation what were the alarm bells to you that made you believe enough to launch a legal action that this was not what people thought in terms of how it happened are you talking specifically how the towers collapsed Yes. I mean, that's obviously the scope of what I'm trying to do to get my brother's inquest reopened. It was probably around sort of 2006, 2007, where Building 7 came under my radar. And, you know, I think there was a growing body of evidence that was being built where, you know, you basically...

5:04It seemed to be contradicting what the official narrative was saying, how the towers had come down. But it wasn't in isolation. But for me, and what I'm trying to do with Marvila's inquest, is establish what basically caused his death. I mean, look, it's a massive thing to suggest, stroke believe,

5:29Piers Morgan:that it wasn't what we thought. In other words, a bunch of predominantly Saudi hijackers, you know, jihadists who wanted to kill themselves as they took down the Twin Towers at this great sign of imperialism, at the instigation of Osama bin Laden, who ran al-Qaeda, had tried to block the World Trade Center before. You know, it's a pretty clear narrative, which, you know, I would argue, from a journalistic point of view, is a narrative that's been proven by events that followed this. Why are you so certain that the accepted narrative, which most journalists believe is the genuine true story, Why are you fundamentally of the belief that's not what happened?

6:10I'm not certain about it and, you know, I'm not looking to address who did it. It's specifically how did my brother die and how did he come about his death? And that is what I'm trying to do is secure a new inquest. You know, I think you've got to establish what happened and how it happened before you go into who's responsible for that particular part of the attacks.

6:35Piers Morgan:But just finally, before I go to Roger, you believe that the towers didn't come down because the planes hit them? What I have in the application that we submitted to the Attorney-General is evidence that points towards a different mechanism being used, and I want that evidence seen and heard in court. That's my goal. You're talking about explosives being put in the towers? There is evidence of that. There's also the categories of evidence that we submitted in our... But what is the evidence that you're talking about which says that explosives were put in the towers? I'm not setting up being put in there.

7:10Obviously, they would be there if they were bringing down the towers. But essentially, you've got eyewitness testimony. So I've got first responders, including police officers, who basically took statements in the days and the hours after 9-11. You've got expert testimony. I've got just observations by physicists, by chemists, etc. These are experts. I'm not an expert. I'm just relaying... And who do you think put these explosives there, if that's what happened? Again, that's not the purpose of what an inquest is. It's not even looking to apportion blame. It's trying to establish the cause of death of one another.

7:44Piers Morgan:OK, so let me bring Roger in. So, Roger, look, I completely understand why Matt wants to get answers to questions that he believes remain unanswered or are certainly being questioned by people. And there are myriad conspiracy theories about 9-11. So I don't view Matt as a conspiracy theorist. What he's just said to me is, I think a lot of people who lose loved ones in horrific tragedies like this, or terror attacks, whatever it may be, they're going to read so much about what's happened, particularly since the advent of the internet, that you can go off on all sorts of tangents in your mind about what may or may not have done it.

8:23Piers Morgan:And I think he's been careful not to subscribe to any particular blame or anything else. He just says he wants answers. I understand that. As a grieving relative of someone who died in that terror attack, I get it. What I find slightly less, not acceptable, but less understandable is why someone like you, who, as far as I know, didn't lose anybody in the Twin Towers, let me just clarify that. You had nobody you knew who died that day, right? Nobody. Right. So you've contributed, it's been reported, you can confirm this or not, that£100 ,000 towards Matt's... I think the aim is£150 ,000 to take the case of Supreme Court.

9:08Piers Morgan:So you clearly support what he's doing, but what do you think actually happened here, then? If you don't think it was the official narrative, what do you think happened? Well, it's very... I'm glad you asked me that question, Piers. Very nice to see you again. and thank you for reminding us all of John Pelger and the stories he wrote at the time. What a great journalist he was. Why have I given some money to this case, to this court case? Because I think it's extremely important, English as I am, that the Attorney General in England is not or should not be allowed to be above the law, which is what several attorney generals since 2001 have suggested, so that they say we don't have to answer to the law or the Supreme Court.

10:05What Matt has done, to his eternal credit, is to fight and fight and fight and fight for 25 years to get his case to open an inquest on his brother's death in front of the Supreme Court. And that case is going to happen in London on October the 14th, 15th this year. Why am I supporting it? Because as you rightly pointed out in your introduction to this conversation, what happened, the truth of what happened on September the 11th, 2001, is supremely important to every one of us in the human race because it affected all our lives from that date for the 25 years intervening up until now with the war on terror that was based on it, with the destruction of five of the seven countries that Paul Wolfowitz told Wesley Clark about in the Pentagon in November of that year, 2001, where they said, it is our plan to destroy all these countries in North Africa and the Middle East, and they've succeeded with all but Lebanon and Iran so far.

11:17Thank goodness, David. But that they might be allowed to do this without there ever being even an inquest into the death of an innocent Englishman who by chance happened to be on the 106th floor of Tower One is anathema to me as an Englishman. And that is why I'm supporting this case. But, OK, but if you... Hang on, hang on, I haven't finished. But my private theories about... My theories may seem a little bit more extreme than Matt's, but Matt, quite rightly, is being very, very careful in what he says, just saying he wants an inquest. So that's my prime motivation.

12:02Piers Morgan:Right, but as you've hinted, you have more extreme theories, which are clearly also part of your motivation. So what are your theories about what happened? If it wasn't what we all believe happened, what do you think happened? I believe Osama bin Laden arranged for a bunch of his al-Qaeda terrorists to train to be pilots, to hijack planes and crash them into Twin Towers and bring them down and kill thousands of people. And I believe that what happened afterwards in terms of the war in Afghanistan and then the war in Iraq were a consequence. No doubt there were neocons that were very happy to go and have those wars, but I absolutely cannot fathom for one second that this was any kind of inside job.

12:43Piers Morgan:So is your theory that there were people who did this deliberately so they could then have the excuse to go to war? That's part of it, yeah. Within weeks of the event, thousands upon thousands of architects and physicists had come out of the woodwork and stated entirely clearly, and I'm absolutely certain that they were correct, that Building 1 and Building 2 and Building 7 of the World Trade Centre in southern New York City fell as controlled demolitions. Now, who planted the explosives to control the demolitions? And nobody with an IQ above room temperature disputes this, but it has never been allowed to be heard in a court of law.

13:37Piers Morgan:Well, actually, loads of people have disputed it. Come on, these are not new theories. You dispute it, Piers. People like you would dispute it, but you do. You go along with the empire. No, I just think it's entirely logical. The buildings around the World Trade Centre obviously came down because of the destruction of the World Trade Centre. Piers, as usual, you're just 100 % wrong. Let's talk about something else. Let's talk about, you know, the football or something, because this is nonsense. Those buildings came down by controlled demolition. We all know it. You can argue against it as much as you want.

14:16Piers Morgan:Who planted the explosives? We don't know. That's what we want to find out. Well, hazard a guess. No, I'm not going to hazard a guess. I have no idea. Some random people... OK, let's take your theory that random people who you're not prepared to name planted explosives is to bring down the Twin Towers and buildings around it as an excuse to go to war in Afghanistan, Iraq, and who knows where else, right? Who could it be? I mean, let's just theorise, let's game this out, right? Who would do that? And by the way, how many people would have to know and how did they keep it quiet? A lot of people would have to know, is my guess.

14:57And they've kept it quiet by employing people like you to spread their propaganda over the mainstream media like you're doing today. But that's OK. We're used to that. I'm just asking you for any facts. Where are the facts? Just, are you blind?

15:13Piers Morgan:I know, I'm the loony here. So let's assume I'm the lunatic with mad ideas. Let's assume that I think a bunch of hijackers crashed two planes into the World Trade Centre that precipitated a number of buildings crashing down. That's my theory. If your theory is that someone planted explosives to do all this, my question is, who was it and why? And my question is, how is it that you can't understand the simple fact that Matt and I are on your TV show because we would like there to be an investigation into this, started by the Attorney General in the UK, accepting that he is not above the law, and by the Supreme Court in the UK saying that Matt Campbell has a right to know why and how his brother died.

16:02A hundred percent.

16:03Piers Morgan:A hundred percent. But you have gone on record with Jimmy Dore as saying that it was the American government that were behind it. So is that what you believe? I haven't. Do you know? Hey, guys, finding the perfect gift for the food lover in your life is easy. Thanks to Gold Belly. Gold Belly ships America's most iconic foods straight from world famous restaurants right to your door. So if you want to treat someone to Joe's Stone Crab from Miami, Franklin Barbecue from Texas, or desserts from famous foodies like Ina Garten or Martha Stewart, Gold Belly has you covered. Just go to goldbelly.com and for a limited time, get 20 % off your first order with promo code GIFT.

16:39That's promo code GIFT. That's one possibility. It could have been the American government. Why don't we have an investigation, Pierce, to find out? That's all Matt and I have been for. You want to stay out there? Let me finish. No, you let me finish. No, you hang on. Don't shout me down. You always try and do that. You're the one shouting. I want to ask you a quick. Are you against there being an inquest? No. Good. There we are. That's the end of this programme. No, it's not. Thank you very much. It's not. It's not because... Peter Morgan says, yes, the British government must allow an inquest.

17:12Piers Morgan:It's not. I'm never against any inquest. And I absolutely understand why Matt wants answers to questions he believed remain unanswered. My question is about your motivation in bankrolling his case, because I believe that, unlike Matt, you do have people you blame. You've gone on record as blaming potentially the American government, stroke CIA. I think that's what you believe happened. And also, who else could it possibly be if the motivation was to go to war, for the Americans to go to war with Afghanistan, Iraq and so on? It obviously would have to be an inside job by the American government, at which point you lose me.

17:50Piers Morgan:Because at that point, you have to make me buy into a theory that the American government, the CIA, plotted and planned the mass murder of thousands of its own citizens so they could go to war. And I say to you that that is complete insanity, for which there is zero evidence that that is ever the case. But I say to you that you're very welcome to your opinion. It's not opinion, it's a fact. Here you go, there's peers going, doing his normal thing, he says something and then says, it's a fact. You've no idea whether it's a fact or not. What you seem to be refusing to accept is that Matt Campbell, and I am correct in demanding of the Attorney General in the UK that there is an investigation into it.

18:37Now, if this inquest into the death of Jeff Campbell leads to a similar investigation in the United States, which I very much doubt it will, but I hope it does, then we, the people, not just of England or the United States, but of the world, may get to the truth of what actually happened. I believe that those buildings were destroyed by a controlled demolition. All the evidence of our eyes and the laws of physics points to the probability that you were wrong.

19:13Piers Morgan:Well, unfortunately, my eyes do not point to that. My eyes pointed to two... Oh, you're an idiot! Well, I was watching it live at the time when I watched two planes crashing into the World Trade Centre. I was lying on a sofa recovering from back surgeries. It happened and saw it all happen in real time. So I think you're talking complete gobbledygook. And my problem with that is, whilst I understand why Matt wants to find answers for his brother, and I would want the same if it was my brother, in your case, I think there's a slightly more insidious reason why you're backrolling him. I think because of your long history of attacking the American government and the CIA and your huge number of conspiracies that you like to air about what they have and haven't done, and I'm not claiming for a moment, either is perfect, but you want me to believe, unless I'm misunderstanding what you said on the record before, that the American government, stroke CIA, plotted to blow up with explosives the World Trade Centre and the buildings around it and use the planes as some kind of cover-up for it, having recruited a bunch of jihadists from al-Qaeda, right, to do the plain part of it.

20:21Piers Morgan:So that would cover up the fact that they'd actually planted loads of explosives at lower levels of these buildings, which is the real reason they came down. At which point, I say, bullshit. Piers, you're well-known for being a moron, so you don't have to explain... One of us is definitely well-known for being a moron in his pals' conspiracy theories. Let me ask you this, Piers, and I've asked you it before, I'm going to say it again. Should there be an investigation into how the World Trade Centre, buildings 1, 2 and 7, came down or not? Yes, there should, I say. What do you say? There have been numerous investigations into this whole...

20:59Piers Morgan:No, there haven't. There have been numerous investigations into everything... Nothing legal. ..that happened on 9-11. No, there haven't. You just refused to even acknowledge it, which is extraordinary. You think no-one's investigating. What happened on the biggest terror attack in the history of America? I'm sure many, many thousands of people have been involved in the investigation of it. What I'm saying is that none of it has been heard in public where evidence has been given before a serious congregation of legal minds to say, all right, let's find out what happened. Everybody with half an ounce of sense knows that neither Building 1 nor Building 2 nor Building 7 fell down because there were fires caused by aviation fuel...

21:53All right, who ordered this?

21:56Piers Morgan:Let's go with your theory. Who ordered this? Was it President Bush? I can't guess. Was it President Bush? How would you expect me to guess? Well, don't be so cowardly. If you have a theory that people do misdeliver... Who was it? The most obvious culprit, and I don't believe this to be true, by the way, in case he gets upset, is the guy who collected billions and billions of dollars in insurance money the next day and didn't go into work that day in his office. And I've forgotten his name now, but the whole thing is that's a crazy story. Well, you're talking about Howard Lutnick. Well, hang on.

22:29Piers Morgan:I know who you're talking about. I know who you're talking about. His name is Howard Lutnick. He's in the United States government now. He's part of the Cabinet. with Donald Trump. He lost his brother that day. Well, hang on. He lost his brother that day and many hundreds of his employees at Cantor Fitzgerald. He then worked tirelessly to get the families of those who had died proper compensation and got them millions each in compensation. In terms of his work with what happened on 9-11, he was an absolute hero. For you to casually throw that out as some suggestion that because he claimed insurance money, having lost his brother and I think 700 employees...

23:08Piers Morgan:I don't know why you're laughing. That somehow that makes him obviously... That makes him obviously guilty of some kind of complicity in causing this to happen is utterly disgusting. I didn't say that. I have no idea whether he had... You did your normal Roger Waters thing. You just threw it out there. Who is that guy that made billions from insurance? Oh, yeah, well, I happen to know who you're talking about. So I won't let you smear him in absentia because actually what you just said, it was disgusting. And you know it. You've no evidence whatsoever. I don't think it was him. I think it was...

23:43Piers Morgan:What are you talking about? I've no idea. I know. So why do you say things... That's why it was an investigation. Why do you say things when you clearly have no idea? We know it wasn't caused by Mohammed Atta and his mates, all 15 of them. No, we literally do know that's how it was caused. No, we know that's not how... No, that is how it was caused. Well, there you go. Let's have an agreement to disagree. I'm supporting Matt Campbell, and yes, I've given him a few quid, to give him a proper legal team to persuade the Attorney-General to grant Matt Campbell the right, his right, to have an inquest into the death of his brother.

24:24Well, let me bring Matt back in here.