‘DISASTROUS Pseudoscience!’ Will RFK Make America Healthy Again? With Bret Weinstein

27:31And they either maintain their weight or lose weight on the natural whole foods. So this is clearly true. And I think this could be one of his biggest triumphs is to wean America off of ultra-processed foods, starting in schools where it's really a major issue. The dyes, look, I think there's not sort of direct correlations between many of these and terrible outcomes in health. But let's just face it, if you don't need to have a petroleum-based dye in your foods, why should we do that, right? We should have natural products. But clearly, this movement, and it's not going to turn around in a year or two, but as the Assistant Secretary for Health, I was the head public health person in Trumpet One administration.

28:19And clearly, nutrition, obesity, and I always want to throw in something that he does personally, but maybe does not emphasize as much publicly, is physical activity is the second part of that. It's proper nutrition and it doesn't mean you have to be a gym rat for three hours a day. It's walking, it's gardening, it's doing something that provides you movement. And when you combine those two, you lower all your cardiovascular risks, you improve your mood, you decrease depression, you reduce neurodegeneration. So all good things will come from that. And I think we, I hope on the other side of the debate, we can agree on this point because I do think it's a critical point that the secretary is emphasizing and championing.

29:04Piers Morgan:Yeah, and Eric Weinstein, I mean, he is RFK, a fine figure of a fit man for, what is he, 70 now? I mean, he looks great. He obviously practices by example. But I just think on this stuff, it's a no-brainer, isn't it? I mean, are you completely behind him? Oh, this is, I'm not a huge fan of the term no-brainer, but this is well beyond that. So my training is as an evolutionary biologist, and I think it is fair to say that the farther we are from the environment for which we are adapted, the more unhealthy we're going to be. And you can just look at the issue you point to with respect to bread rotting on the shelves.

29:47We've solved a supply chain problem at the expense of our health and reversing it would no doubt improve health substantially. But I would also say that same logic applies across the board, that really, in one sense, the processed food question isn't different than the vaccine question. What we have, you know, it is not part of your natural environment to have aluminum injected into your muscles. And what is the consequence for your health? It's negative. What does the science say? Well, mostly the science wasn't done. So we are left with an absence of evidence, which is not evidence of absence for the harms done by this.

30:30I would say in general, being healthy is a matter of restoring a natural environment to the extent we are capable of doing it. And I'm all for it in any realm where WE ARE PUSHING IN THAT DIRECTION.

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31:32Piers Morgan:Brett, you're off. Just finally this issue of. Sorry. Go on. Please respond. I think the analogy breaks down when it comes to vaccines. And I certainly agree that natural immunity is superior to vaccine immunity in almost every regard if you survive the original disease. Right. And I argued very strongly that people who had COVID should not be forced to get a vaccine. In fact, the vaccine was less effective than natural immunity once you survive. But we do have this issue, right, that in order to become naturally immune, potentially large swaths of the population will wind up in the hospital or, you know, in the morgue.

32:17So I just wanted to put that. I think it's a little bit of a different situation than ultra processed foods versus natural foods. Again, conceding for certain that if you have natural immunity, that is the gold standard immunity, right? That's going to be much better than any vaccine immunity. It's going to be much better than adjuvant immunity. It's just the cost and the price that you're willing to get there. Well, it seems to me that we are in a position to reach useful. We're in a position to I'm Brett, by the way, we're in a position to reach useful agreement here. We know how to study the question.

32:59You know, if I'm wrong and injecting aluminum into your muscle is not dangerous, that's a scientifically easy thing to establish. And the fact that we haven't done the work properly is conspicuous. but in the absence of proper evidence as to what happens when you do inject aluminum you have to ask the question about whether or not the net impact of a vaccine based on an aluminum adjuvant is beneficial and you can't look just narrowly at the disease you have to ask the question for the public who doesn't know what an adjuvant is an adjuvant is an additive that is put into a vaccine that causes your immune system to become alarmed so that it reacts to the antigen that has been injected with it.

33:50Now, that works fine on paper, but the problem is the aluminum adjuvant is not specific to the antigen in any way. Your immune system knows that it's on high alert, but it doesn't know what it's alert to. And so is this connected to all of the proliferating allergies that we see in younger people today? Is this causing people to have asthma, a disease that is very serious and from which many die? We don't know the answers to those questions because they haven't been properly studied. But my expectation as an evolutionary biologist is that injecting aluminum into the body is a radical intervention.

34:31And even if it was beneficial with respect to the disease to which you are being immunized, the net impact could very well be negative.

34:41Piers Morgan:Brett Weinstein, you know RFK, as I said earlier. He made a big pledge that he would ban big pharma from advertising on television. $5 billion is spent every year pushing pharmaceuticals on American television. Only one other country in the world, New Zealand, allows it. And it's very tightly regulated. But this ban, he now says, won't happen. how frustrating has he found it to reach that wall when it comes to such a big pledge uh he is in a very lonely position being inside the belly of the beast fighting this battle and running up against roadblocks that uh were entirely theoretical until he got there now i don't think there's anyone better positioned to address these things than Bobby Kennedy.

35:34His career as a lawyer has put him in close contact with industry and its ability to capture regulatory apparatus, but he's dealing with something that is profoundly powerful. And in fact, what many don't realize is that the advertisements on American television are not primarily about convincing people of something. They're primarily about buying influence over those entities so that they cannot report accurately on pharmaceutical hazards. So we are, in a sense, flying blind because somebody has engineered blinders for us. Yeah.

36:24Piers Morgan:Eric Girard, in conclusion to this, it's early days, but are you optimistic that if he remains in this post for the rest of the Trump term, that RFK can have a transformative effect on American health? Will he make America healthy again? If that's directed at me, I am very hopeful about that, because as I said, I haven't gone exhaustively through all his positions, but I am very supportive of the great majority of them. And I think they're hitting at the core of America's health problem. I also think, having worked directly with President Trump many, many, many days before the pandemic and during the pandemic, that he will empower people to do the right thing.

37:14And if Secretary Kennedy speaks directly to the president and there is a need to ban such advertisements, the president's going to support him because the president is fearless if he's convinced that something is right to be done. My main concern with, and I think Secretary Kennedy is uniquely charismatic and can speak to the American people in a way that perhaps I've not seen anyone in a cabinet position do. My concern is on his and his vaccine sort of policy instances that I think will have adverse effects on overall vaccination. It will cause poor health related to those diseases. And again, with mRNA, I'm concerned about the rapid response and the national security issues.

38:07You know, pandemics may not be, you know, too likely. And I agree with the other Brett here that, you know, maybe it's overstated about the risk, but we just did have one, right? And it killed millions of people around the world. And so we do need to be prepared for that. We do need to be prepared for offensive bioweapons. Again, before I went to the light side, I was on the dark side. I ran the science office at DARPA. I'm very familiar with foreign bioweapons programs and the bioweapons threat. But overall, I am positive about Secretary Kennedy. I think he's on target on most of the most important health issues.

38:44I'd like to convince him to change his position and move on vaccines. and then he would be, I think, a historically successful and impactful secretary.

38:56Piers Morgan:Well, thank you to both my Bretts. There were no Erics, just to be clear, and there were definitely no no-brainers. That was a very brainy debate, and I appreciate you both joining me. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Well, listening to my previous two guests, and here to give his verdict on whether RFK is making America healthy again is Dave Farina, the host of Professor Dave Explains. Well, Dave, welcome. Hey, Chicago. Class it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new fave footwear? Step into a local Crocs store and step into your new look.

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39:43Piers Morgan:first day fits handled walk out ready for whatever's next visit your nearest croc store today welcome to uncensored thanks for having me your response to what you were just listening to i mean where to begin uh i mean i'm familiar with brett weinstein i'm not familiar with his opponent but i know uh you know i've dealt with him and his brother there are peas in a pod Yeah, Brett just basically peddles conspiracies to generate a cult following online. A lot of what he said was absolutely ridiculous. He went on a tirade about, you know, aluminum-based adjuvants not being tested. Absolutely not. They've been tested rigorously.

40:25They're shown to be safe. The levels of aluminum are comparable to what are ingested through breast milk by children, stuff like that. It's just basically his whole shtick is just kind of like, I'm just asking questions and look at all these things. and there's just absolutely no basis for it. I'm a little alarmed that both of them had anything positive to say about RFK. I don't think that there is really anything positive that you can say about him. He's been a complete train wreck, antithetical to the idea of public health in every way, shape and form. So I'm sure that we're going to get into the specifics of how that is the case.

40:57Piers Morgan:Well, I've got to say, I've interviewed him a number of times, RFK Jr. I went into it thinking that everything I read would mean I would have a crackpot in front of me, espousing crackpot ideas. Actually, I didn't get that feeling from him. And I've watched very carefully the way that he has performed so far. The measles crisis was interesting because he took a bit of time, but then came down and publicly endorsed the vaccination, which I think surprised people. I completely agree with him that America needs to wean itself off over-processed food. I think he's right to try and get Americans fitter.

41:35Piers Morgan:America has shocking health rates, really, comparative to, say, Asian countries. The obesity rates are alarming. So there are also things where I find myself nodding to him. What is it about him that concerns you so much? Because obviously, you don't agree. Sure. But what concerns you so much? So you just asked three separate questions, so I'll answer each of them. Number one, he absolutely is a crackpot. He has pushed miasma theory, terrain theory, pushed ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine. He promotes raw milk. He continues to push lies about vaccines causing autism, just all manner of blatant pseudoscience.

42:13And he's leveraging his position to have this essentially is like a repeat of Stalin backing Lysenko, where you have this sort of state sanctioned pseudoscience trying to usurp actual science. And that's what we're seeing with all the layoffs, discarding the entire vaccine safety panel. You have even top experts like Peter Marks saying, and I quote, it has become clear that truth and transparency are not desired by the secretary, but rather he wishes subservient confirmation of his misinformation and lies. So he's just surrounding himself with yes men that will promote pseudoscience. He's even threatening to ban federal scientists from publishing research in respected journals, demanding they publish in the state state sanctioned alternative.

42:52So this is all driving scientific talent out of the country, preventing people from emigrating here to be part of the scientific community. It's very disastrous, the pseudoscience. But then speaking to what you said about vaccines and ultra processed foods, his vaccine rhetoric is directly responsible for deaths. And you guys have been focusing on the Texas outbreak. But let's not forget the Samoa outbreak, where he is absolutely 100 percent directly responsible for 83 deaths over there. He is the one who went over there, met with anti-vaccine advocates and pushed this false narrative about the outbreak being due to to a vaccine rather than actual measles.

43:31Eighty three deaths on his head. No remorse over here in Texas. Right. Obviously, he you know, when he gets cornered, he's going to backtrack and say, oh, no, no, no. By the way, you know, MMR is fine. Everybody should get it. But he's the one pushing all these long debunked conspiracies about the autism thing, which goes all the way back to Andrew Wakefield, the massive fraud from from your neck of the woods. and then to go to ultra processed foods. Look, this is the one thing where it's like, yeah, junk food is bad for you. Are we going to give this guy a medal for saying that junk food is bad for you?

44:03Everybody knows that, right? I mean, it's like what is like it also speaks to the hypocrisy of the right as well, though, because, you know, not like this huge fan of Michelle Obama or anything, but she had an initiative to make school lunches more healthy. And Republicans jumped on her federal overreach, big government, all this stuff. And now RFK comes around and says, oh, yeah, by the way, junk food is bad. And everyone's clapping and cheering like he's some kind of messiah. What is the plan here? Ban fast food, ban soda, ban ice cream. I don't think that that his orange boss would be too pleased if McDonald's is outlawed.

44:38So what's what's the end goal here? This is just rhetoric to try to make it seem like he's on the side of the public when he just absolutely isn't right. He pretends to be this bulwark fighting against fighting against big pharma and everybody in the private industry. But as soon as he gets the reins, as soon as he gets the keys to the castle, what does he do? He guts all of the federal institutions that are meant to protect the public against the private sector. Thousands of layoffs at the FDA, at the CDC, all right. The entire vaccine panel. What's happened to the vaccine panel? He replaced them with Robert Malone, all these other frauds.

45:10then if these vaccines are no longer recommended, then low-income families, low-income children don't have access to them for free anymore. So all of this rhetoric about not wanting to take vaccines away from people, it's actually specifically what he's doing. So all of it is a facade, all of it.

45:26Piers Morgan:When you take a specific, for example, like mRNA vaccines, You know, I've heard exactly the same rhetoric that RF Kennedy Jr. says about this from a top UK oncologist. I mean, literally one of the best in the country. He absolutely concurs that there are genuine issues about the mRNA vaccine. And I would just use that as an example where COVID in many ways did reveal that science is an ever evolving thing, that sometimes people take implacable positions that turn out to be completely untrue. I remember the scientists collectively assuring us that if you took the vaccine, then you could not transmit the virus.

46:12Piers Morgan:And then it turned out that was nonsense. Early on, they said, you know, you shouldn't use masks. Then they became mandatory and so on. And then later, it looks like masks weren't that helpful anyway, et cetera. So science evolves and it moves. And I guess my overview would be if the experts have been so expert in America in terms of health in the last 50 years, why is America so unhealthy? OK, again, that's like three different questions. First of all, what you're attributing to the scientific community is actually just a couple of things that Biden said offhand, right, in terms of not you won't get infected, things like that.

46:51That's not what doctors said. And so, OK, leaving the why Americans are so unhealthy thing for later, just we should talk about mRNA vaccines because you just had Brett Weinstein on. And he is one of the main purveyors of all these lies and conspiracies about, you know, fabricating all of these millions of deaths and all these other things. His opponent was a little more reasonable in terms of discussing the COVID vaccines. So in terms of like we absolutely cannot deny the efficacy and the success in saving millions of lives for these covid vaccines, especially at this lightning speed in which they were produced where other therapies.

47:26So we to talk as though that's not true is ridiculous. But then looking at this, you know, 500 million cut for future, you know, you had a clip of someone else talking about all of these other alternate therapies that we're not going to get anymore because this was cut. I mean, this is absolutely indefensible, right? There is a kernel of truth to some of the rhetoric about the mRNA vaccines in terms of the, it was the uridine, pseudouridine, the N-methyl pseudouridine swap, which is responsible for spike protein lingering longer than we expected. It's sometimes found six months later in muscle tissue and things like that.

48:03So that was a bit unexpected. But how, you know, how do you and by the way, all of the side effects have been completely overblown by frauds like Brett Weinstein, completely fabricated all of these, you know, the myocarditis and all this stuff, just complete false rhetoric. Right. So it's not that there's nothing there. Right. We can talk about why is this spike protein hanging hanging around longer than we expected to. But how do you answer that question? You do more research. Right. You you study it. You don't you don't gut the FDA and CDC. You don't you don't have, you know, billions of dollars of budget cuts.

48:34You don't push brilliant scientists out of the country and prevent other brilliant foreign scientists from coming into the country due to RFK's policies and Trump's attitude towards immigrants. It's just a complete mess. I mean, it's a deterioration of the American scientific community right before our eyes. And RFK and Trump, the Trump's administration are directly responsible for it. That's really all there is to it. As far as what was the last.

48:57Piers Morgan:But on that big picture, you know, the big picture point was about why, if the experts have been so expert, why is America so unhealthy? I mean, look, it's poverty, right? America is absolutely unique among the world powers in terms of, number one, not having, you know, affordable health care. It's not having access to healthy food, not having access to affordable health care. Like this is what's driving health concerns. So if we want to address these things, obviously, we have to figure out how to make health care better. And so that involves standing up to health insurance industries and things like that.

49:35But also just kind of taking it more seriously, if we want to understand, right, RFK pushes this, you know, this explosion in chronic disease, 54 percent prevalence. And it's all magically lined up with 1989 in the vaccine schedule and junk food. It's complete rubbish. I mean, we obviously we know junk food isn't good for you. Right. That's not news. And OK, what are you going to do, like enforce laws that prevent people from manufacturing and eating fast food? Good luck with that if you want to try that. But more importantly, why don't we research the genetic basis for a lot of these diseases?

50:09Things certainly behavioral and neurological diseases are largely genetic. And then even stuff like obesity has a very large genetic component. Why are we researching that more? And then just ultimately economics. I mean, I'd say post-World War II, just America has become this venue where, you know, the oligarchy is just consistently vying for supremacy here, specifically being that U.S. is the, you know, at the moment remains, I believe, the premier global power. that may change soon or is already in the process of changing. But that's why we see this continued transference of wealth from the masses into the oligarchy.

50:46And that's going to generate incredible amounts of poverty. And with that, you don't have access to healthy food. You don't have access to health care. That's the main problem. That's what we should be focusing on.

50:58Piers Morgan:OK, Dave Farina, thank you very much. Well, listening to all that was Brett Girard, one of the two people I interviewed earlier, who stayed on just to listen to what Dave had to say. Brett, what's your response to that? Well, I agree with a lot of what was said. I mean, it's hard in a debate format to jump on everything that's being said by the other Brett, but things like adjuvants have been studied forever and they're not linked with these catastrophic consequences. The mRNA vaccines have saved millions of lives. Yes, we can always improve our vaccine safety monitoring, But the vaccine safety monitoring, particularly the prospective one that's throughout the health systems that report to the CDC, is pretty good.

51:42And they saw myocarditis very early. Myocarditis is real. It's not due to mRNA vaccines. It's a class effect, probably related to the spike protein that we saw with adenovirus. And so I agree. I certainly agree that stacking the ACIP panel, the vaccine panel at CDC and eliminating all inputs from scientific societies like IDSA is just a way to guarantee that the result that he wants, the secretary wants on vaccines is going to happen. And to put some modicum of legitimacy there because, well, the ACIP said this is what we should do, but he's already stacked the ACIP with people who have pseudoscientific beliefs.

52:24I do want to say one thing about America being unhealthy, and I want to footstomp a lot of what you said. One factor that I think is very important is you have to change the reimbursement system. We have a sick care system that reimburses for sick care. I will happily reimburse you to amputate somebody's leg who has diabetes and vascular disease, but we don't put the money prospectively into access to preventative care, access to healthy foods. So the entire reimbursement system almost guarantees that we maintain a sick society and it doesn't support the maintenance of health. And in addition to everything that was said, which I agree with, that reimbursement system absolutely needs to be changed to be a health promoting system and not a sick care system.

53:17Piers Morgan:just finally um uh brett you know dave painted a pretty apocalyptic picture of how he views rfk junior running america's health i i detect you're not quite as grim faced about it but what would your response be to to dave to maybe reassure him so i i can't reassure him because i don't know I don't know how this is all going to turn out. Having been assistant secretary and worked for someone who I think is an outstanding secretary, Alex Azar, who is very smart, understood how to make things happen, no craziness whatsoever, very science-based. I think a secretary is going to have an opportunity to do maybe two or three things.

54:04And, you know, that's going to be it, maybe two or three or four things. And I'm trying to, you know, support the things that I think are very important that could be beneficial. And, you know, if this secretary did nothing else but work on nutrition, raise nutrition as a national priority, elimination of dyes, I think that could be very helpful for the country, right? On the other hand, instilling vaccine hesitancy, fear of vaccines, pseudoscience on the headlines like the mRNA vaccines are killing more people than they help, gutting the scientific system that are at our agencies, these could be catastrophic, right?

54:53And that's why we're having this discussion here. So my goal is to help promote what I think is in the best public health's interest. He is our secretary. And until he is not our secretary, which may be in three and a half years or maybe tomorrow, Trump does fire people. While he's our secretary, I want to promote and support the things that I think are beneficial for public health. And I want to come shows like this to argue with things that I think are detrimental. And the whole vaccine policy, his whole tenor about vaccines, his whole gutting the scientific infrastructure about vaccines, I think is highly detrimental and could be catastrophic.

55:36Dave, final word to you. I agree with all of that. The only thing I would emphasize is that this veneer of concern about nutrition and public health. It's a facade. It's just a smokescreen to make people think that he is actually concerned with the masses when he's really just there to implement this agenda. He's just gutting all these federal institutions. It's very much aligned with what Trump and Musk were trying to do with Doge, going in trying to pretend that they're cutting all this waste, when in reality, they're just gutting the institutions that have any ability to regulate the private sector, right?

56:13It's all in line with this continued transference of wealth from the general public into the oligarchy. And RFK is right in line with that. As much as he tries to portray himself as the polar opposite of that, it is what he is.

56:26Piers Morgan:You know, Trump was asked recently in an interview, you know, he eats so much fast food, is he a good example? He said, well, all the people who've been lecturing me about eating fast food have passed. And then he did a big smirk. I'll just leave this with that. Because one thing's for sure, Trump is ridiculously healthy for a guy of nearly 80 who's had the diet he's led. Maybe it's the lack of alcohol might be the key, I think, to why he may be as healthy as he is, but we shall see. Thank you both very much. I appreciate it. Hello and welcome. We're beginning with some breaking news. Woke is dead.

57:05Piers Morgan:The war on common sense is officially over. Canceled celebrities are emerging from Twitter jail. Virtue signalling has been outlawed under punishment for mass ridicule, and we are finally free to call a spade a spade. So what was the cause of death? How did the silence majority finally win? And what exactly is going to take its place? Woke is Dead is my definitive story on the rise and fall of woke, as well as the common sense heroes and PC villains who have dominated news and culture across ten years of madness. It's also my personal roadmap back to a less divided world. A world where we can agree to disagree, where debate triumphs over censorship, and where common sense is king.

57:49Piers Morgan:You will be shocked by how much you agree with me.

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