"DISGUSTING!" Gaza Flotilla Detainees on Israel 'Abuse' | Norman Finkelstein on 'Nazi' Post

27:54Piers Morgan:Yeah. Now, obviously, if I make an argument like that, I don't leave it at the soundbite. It's not a tweet. It's an argument. I'm coming out with a book now this month, Gaza's Gravediggers, and the whole of the introduction is devoted to that specific question. So what did I do in order to try to get my moral bearings? Because I was unsure of my moral judgment. I wasn't confident in it. I was unsure. What I did was I went back to look at the slave rebellion in the United States and in the Caribbean. And the slave rebellions were very bloody affairs. They indiscriminately killed white people. If you take the largest slave rebellion in the United States by Nat Turner, his order was, quote, kill all white people.

28:41And that's what the slave rebels proceeded, revolters proceeded to do. They went from house to house, hacked women to death. In that case, they did behead babies. That's correct. And then what I did was I looked at what the abolitionists, those who opposed slavery, what did they say about the Nat Turner rebellion? What did they say like C.L.R. James, the historian? What did he say about the slave rebellion in Haiti? And in each case, what I discovered was that the abolitionists, those who oppose slavery, white people and also black people who oppose slavery, they never condemned Nat Turner. What they did was they said horrible things happened during that Nat Turner revolt.

29:40Just as I said, and I said it's not right, it's not wise to deny that Hamas and other militant groups committed atrocities of a significant magnitude on October 7th. I was not in denial mode. But then I did exactly what the abolitionists did. They did not condemn the slave revolts. They condemned, in the case of the United States, they condemned the white people who either enforced or turned a blind eye to slavery. They said, we warned you. We warned you. We warned you. If you treat people this way, if you degrade them, you humiliate them, you murder them, that don't be surprised if a Nat Turner revolt happens.

30:42And that's exactly what I said about October 7th. If you knew, as I did know, what had been done to the people of Gaza, the fact that even Israel's national security, the head of Israel's National Security Council said in 2004, Ghiora Island, he described Gaza as a huge concentration camp. Or Mary Robinson, the U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights, she said in 2008, she said a whole civilization is being destroyed. I am not exaggerating. It's being destroyed. Or as the economists said in 2023, just on the eve of October 7th, when they said that Gaza was a sinking ship. In the face of all of that, you can't be surprised by October 7th.

31:48You can't pretend to be shocked by October 7th. And you can condemn the atrocities. But just as the abolitionists did not condemn the slave revolts, I won't condemn the revolt by the inmates of a concentration camp who were born into it because the people of Gaza who burst the gates, they were mostly around 20 to 22 years old. They were born into a concentration camp. They languished in that concentration camp and they were fated and destined to die in that camp.

32:28Piers Morgan:OK, we did check while you were talking there. My team checked about the Nazi quote. You did say it. 25th of May 2018, on your official X account, Twitter account as it was then, the mask has been pulled off. Israelis are Nazis. Nazis are Israelis. The assassins along the concentration camp fence target children for goofs. So that was a genuine post that you did, just to clarify that. Just very quickly... Maybe, I would have to go look at him. So, Joe, very quickly, your response to what Norman Finkelstein said there about October the 7th, because, you know, he made a lot of parallels about people who have been in some form of slavery rising up and that it's more complex and just condemning it outright.

33:15Piers Morgan:A lot of people will be appalled by that and say this is clearly a terrorist attack, that, you know, referencing back to slavery is missing the point about what happened in 2023. What do you say? I think it's right, obviously, to condemn what Hamas did. But I do think it's important to look back and understand why things happen. Just because you're trying to understand why things happen doesn't mean you're condoning it. I think we need to do a lot more of this in American intelligence circles. We need to look at the results of some of our policies in the Middle East. We tend to call it blowback terrorism.

33:52It's not discussed enough in counterterrorism circles. We're quick to try and dive into the doctrine of why Al-Qaeda attacked us on 9-11. But we usually skip over how our policies could have impacted and driven a lot of these people to the extreme. So I think what the professor there is discussing is worth looking at. And we shouldn't be shamed or criticized for saying, OK, yes, it was horrific what Hamas or any terrorist organization does. But why does that terrorist organization exist? because to not answer that question does allow us to kind of paint the terrorists and the people who may support the terrorists as basically just monsters who aren't human and have no agency.

34:35I think we should look into what drives people to these extremes, what policies, what conditions are created. I think that's important if we ever hope to actually solve the problem of terrorism.

34:47Piers Morgan:OK, very quickly, Joe, Mike Huckabee, the American ambassador to Israel, today has called you out for saying Israel only existed as a regional power because of America. He posted, Joe Kent is either not very smart or just dishonest. Israel received$3.8 billion, but spends far more than that buying US military goods. US also receives Intel tech innovations so the ROI is many times more. New MOU with Israel ends aid and will be based on trade. What do you say to that? So, look, first off, the aid that we give Israel, that$3.8 billion, it's actually a lot more than that in terms of how much military hardware that we end up parking there to defend them.

35:30Not to mention the fact that we pay Egypt a similar amount so that Egypt basically does not attack or do any kind of hostility against Israel. it is pretty much irrefutable. If America pulled away the military assistance that we give and just really the political top cover that we give to Israel, they would behave in a much different way. They would, at best case, be able to defend themselves and their borders. And that's even debatable to a certain extent. They most certainly wouldn't be able to go on the offense. They most certainly wouldn't be able to get away with what they get away with in terms of the Palestinian territories.

36:05So I just believe the amount of data that's out there for how much support that we give the Israelis, it's basically irrefutable. Now, the fundamental question for Americans is, number one, can we afford this? We really can't afford to be giving foreign aid to very many countries, if any, right now, considering the state of our economy. But even if our economy was in good order, the question is, what do we get in return? So, the first kind of fallacy that he presents there is that the Israelis take a large chunk of that$3.8 billion and they spend it inside the U.S. purchasing U.S. weapons. Great, maybe they do.

36:37But then we're saying that in order for these weapons to be purchased and the American manufacturing to take place, we need like a third party like the Israelis. We have to give the money to the Israelis first so they can spend it in America. I just disagree with that. If we want to have a healthy military industrial base for our own country, then we should take that$3.8 billion, not give it to the Israelis, and we should spend it on American weapons for our own reserves, which are running low right now because of the war in Iran, because of the war in Ukraine. In terms of what the Israelis give us back, do they give us some good intelligence?

37:09They most certainly do. However, we have become over-reliant on Israeli intelligence in the Middle East. The Israelis have very impressive, very capable intelligence services. However, we have started taking what they give us and basically saying, this is kind of the irrefutable intelligence, and we don't do a good enough job of having our own capabilities to fact-check what the Israelis are giving us, or at least to caveat what the Israelis are giving us, and saying they could be giving this information to us to influence a policy outcome. So I think, again, we have to really look at the relationship with Israel and also the way that Israel behaves in Gaza, in Lebanon, basically to all their different neighbors, all the fights that they are picking, while they may be important to Israel or at least to the government in control right now, we have to take a look at that and say, what effect does that have on America right now?

37:57Like we basically, as of today, we were caught between playing referee into what's taking place in Lebanon and just look at the U.S. history of trying to intervene and between the Lebanese and the Israelis. It's gotten us nothing but death and destruction. So at the end of the day, we have to look at all of our foreign relationships in terms of what do we get in return, what's our ROI, and I just think that equation just does not add up in terms of what we give the Israelis right now.

38:23Piers Morgan:OK. Joe Kent and Professor Norma Finkelstein, thank you both very much indeed. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. A slew of recent reports have made damning accusations about the treatment of detainees in Israeli custody. Nick Christos, a report from the New York Times, alleged in lurid terms the sexual abuse of Palestinian prisoners awaiting trial. And last week, the UN Secretary General added Israel to a list of groups accused of sexual violence in conflict. Well, the UN's report cites multiple cases of violence against prisoners in detention and during interrogations. Critics of the Israeli government, including some in Israel, say that violence against prisoners has been glorified, normalized and often televised.

38:59Piers Morgan:And into that maelstrom stepped Itamar Ben-Gavir, Israel's national security minister. Israeli forces intercepted a flotilla of 50 boats attempting to deliver aid to Gaza. More than 400 people from 44 different countries were arrested and the next day Ben Gavir posted a video of security forces abusing these detainees. The video included footage of him waving an Israeli flag and mocking activists who were tied up on the ground. He'd reportedly forced his way onto the vessel telling guards he would end their careers. Free, free, Paul, let's go!

39:45Piers Morgan:It was very easy to condemn Ben Gavir. In this case, for once, even Netanyahu did. The question is whether this minister, an almost cartoonish villain, is a rogue bad apple, or as many now claim, evidence of a much deeper sickness in a country hardened by conflict. We'll debate all this in a moment, First, I'm joined by Catriona Graham, one of the flotilla detainees you saw prominently in that video. Catriona Graham, welcome to Uncensored. We've all seen the video, but from your perspective, in the moment, what did it feel like was happening to you? So, when we arrived in Ashdod Port, this was already after two days being held on what was a makeshift prison boat, where we were denied many elements of basic care, A huge amount of violence was perpetrated against many of those and the flotilla.

40:34Already by that point, we had many broken bones, many reports of sexual violence, of rape. And so we were all fairly shaken. We were brought through many hours of processing where we were denied access to toilets, to water, to food. And in seeing Ben Gavir come by, when I was on the flotilla mission last year in 2025, he made a similar effort to do a tour, kind of humiliating those who had participated in the flotilla at that point. So I think in the face of seeing someone who is often the face and the attack dog of many of the Israeli leadership and the kind of system of violence and genocide that they've been perpetuating against the Palestinian people for many years now, it felt very impossible to stay silent and important to speak out however possible in that moment.

41:22Piers Morgan:Did you feel yourself that you were assaulted? Absolutely. So I was kidnapped. I was detained twice during this mission, once just off the coast of Crete. And at that point, I was taken out, pulled quite violently. We were cable tied at various points, many people losing feeling in their hands, in their feet. as we were shackled. We had been forced through various abuses, still healing from a bad kick that I got to the thigh. But actually the violence that I experienced was very little compared to many of my comrades and, of course, very, very little compared to the kinds of violence and extreme torture that we know Palestinians are subjected to on a daily basis in Israeli detention.

42:04Piers Morgan:We've obviously read the Nick Kristof report in the New York Times, which Prime Minister Netanyahu responded by saying he'll be suing Kristof and the paper. Excuse me. And we've also just seen the UN report about further abuses allegedly committed against Palestinian prisoners. Here, obviously, the number of people on these boats being detained were a multitude of different nations. From what you witnessed and experienced and the shared experiences you've had, Are you in any doubt that Israeli forces are capable of committing sexual crimes, in particular against detainees? I mean, we saw this ourselves.

42:46We have had more than a dozen reports of severe sexual assault, of rape, of those who participated in the flotilla. But I don't think we need our evidence. I think there's already decades of evidence of the kinds of severe abuses that are perpetrated against Palestinian political prisoners and hostages in Israeli detention centers. And I think Netanyahu's own response to the video that Ben Gavir put out is quite telling. He talks about it being against the values of Israel. But these are videos of the kind that he has put out many times in front of Palestinian prisoners and hostages, where he has them subjected to extreme forms of humiliation and talking about the execution legislation that they are working to implement at the moment.

43:27So we need to recognize this is part of a much wider system of continued abuse, continued violence, not only in Israeli detention centers, but across Gaza, across the West Bank. We know that similar sexual abuses go on at the checkpoints where people are just trying to live their daily lives but are going through severe elements of control in every step of their life. And this is the kind of thing where we need to recognise that our governments have allowed impunity for Israel for far too long, and that is part of why they felt they were emboldened to perpetrate this kind of violence against us as well.

44:00Piers Morgan:What does it say, do you think, about this Israeli government that someone like Ben Gavir and Smodrich and others in there are allowed to do this kind of thing with no apparent accountability from the Prime Minister or anybody else and just carry on in the government? I mean, I know yourself tweeted just this morning that the behaviours of some of these individuals is destroying Israeli reputation. But ultimately, we have seen this kind of behaviour for decades. I don't think we can put it at the hands of just a few individuals. We have seen decades of abuses against Palestinian people. We have seen decades of attempts at ethnic cleansing.

44:40And this is something that has become more extreme in recent years as they've become emboldened. But we're seeing the same kinds of behavior now in Lebanon as well. So we're seeing so many attempts to try and expand this Greater Israel Project. And we really need to challenge this. They have breached international law many, many times over. There is huge, significant evidence towards this. and yet there is still a lack of accountability at the global level.

45:05Piers Morgan:What they would say, of course, is they're responding to the horrors of October 7th, which most people view as an appalling terrorist attack on the Israeli people. What was your view of what happened that day? So I think any targeting of civilians, no matter who is doing that targeting, is absolutely wrong. But people who say, you know, well, Israel has the right to self-defence, How is it self-defense when we have now seen more than 92 ,000 people murdered since October 7th by Israel? We have seen, even since the so-called ceasefire agreement was called, more than 900 people murdered by Israel.

45:42Just at the start of Eid, there were 10 more people murdered by Israel in Palestine in Gaza, including five children. We have still seen the ongoing detention of Dr. Hussam Abu Safiya, who is a paediatrician, and yet since release detainees have reported seeing him stripped naked and having dogs set on him. So this is the kind of behaviour that Israel continues to perpetuate, and so we need to make sure that there is real accountability by government leaders and not just condemnation in words.

46:09Piers Morgan:Katrina Graham, thank you very much indeed for joining me. Thank you. Well to debate this political commentator and former advisor to Ben Gavir Yishai Fleischer and the Gaza flotilla detainee activist Alex Colston. Yishai Fleischer welcome back to Uncensored. We're getting a lot of different reports now coming in about Israeli abuse of Palestinian prisoners and detainees and these flotillas and so on. It can't all be just a figment of people's imagination. So what is your response to it? I think that they were humiliated, but they were not abused. I think that the abuse narrative came about after the release of the May 2026 report of the horrific sexual abuse by Hamas.

46:56They wanted to counter this, and they started creating their fraudulent narrative about being sexually abused, etc., etc. The best one is that they accused Israel of all kinds of physical violence, and yet there was no marks on them, right? You see them in videos coming in Turkey with their kafiyas, and there's nothing on their necks and there's nothing on their hands. There's no black and blue eyes. There's nothing. There is an image of a girl who's coming out with a neck brace, and then the next day she's smiling without a neck brace. It's a put-on. It's a put-on. They want to be smirched. That's their whole tactic.

47:26These are folks trying to break internationally recognized legal blockade of Gaza, which is part of war. It's a normative part of war. They're trying to break that. That means that they're enemy combatants. They were arrested. They were detained. They were humiliated. Definitely. They were humiliated, and they should be exposed for what they are, which is obsessed. Israel haters. Did you notice, by the way, the necklace that Katrina was wearing? She was wearing a necklace that had the whole map of Israel on it, and she presumably thinks that should be all Palestine. In other words, she wants to erase Israel.

48:01That was the necklace that she was wearing on your show just a minute ago. She wants to erase and destroy Israel. She'll use any tactic, especially lies and the Kristoff report about rape dogs and stuff like that. Sure. You know, that's the new creation that they've manifested, that they've imagined in order to counter the true 250 page report about Hamas sexual abuse, about Hamas soldier, Hamas terrorists cutting off breasts and doing who knows what awful stuff. Yeah, well, what's interesting to me, though, Yishai,

48:31Piers Morgan:is that you seem very happy to believe absolutely everything that's been alleged that Hamas did, but absolutely nothing that's been alleged by what the Israeli forces have done. And I would simply play you the video of the young woman I just interviewed, Katrina Graham, who was detained on one of these flotillas. This is what happened to her. Wow, let's go! Check it! Check it! Check it!

49:03Piers Morgan:I cut that because we don't need to see the rest of that video. That's a kind of police action that you would see. But just to be clear, she was shouting free, free Palestine. Did she look like she was sexually abused there? No, I didn't say that. She was humiliated. She was detained. She was physically abused. She was shouting free, free Palestine. I don't know if that abuse is not the right word. That was a police action. You're allowed to say free, free. the difference between... Yeah, but my point is that even when you watch something... You can't tell us what you're allowed to say, not allowed to say.

49:30She was incarcerated as an enemy combatant. I can say what I like. Don't tell me what she's allowed to say. OK, but we don't... No, no, I know you're not going to believe it. Of course you can, Pierce, but you can't tell us what we're going to do in our military actions. No, no, that's fine. We have to fight against enemies. She was accosting a minister, and the police brought her down. She wasn't accosting anybody. I'm in New York right now. The video showed her accosting nobody.

49:52Piers Morgan:The video didn't show her accosting anybody. She was part of a flotilla to try to break a blockade. Who was she accosting? She's therefore an enemy combatant. Who did she accost? She was accosting the minister. She was accosting the police. When was she accosting anybody? She was causing rioters. By the way, Pierce, they were treated much worse in the Spanish airport and in Vienna because they were blocking the traffic. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about what the Israelis did to these detainees. On the very day that people like... That video, if you want to use that video as proof of abuse, it's absurdity.

50:23Piers Morgan:On the day that people like you and you're perfectly entitled to people were out there saying all the allegations of mistreatment of detainees are completely untrue and a blood libel against the Israelis and so on. Ben Givir, a member of the government, literally posts on his own social media clear, compelling evidence of a young female detainee being physically assaulted. I would not call that assaulted. I would call that a police action. I think actually that video proves exactly the opposite that that's the extent of it she was made to sit down, she was made to shut up and she was causing a problem they had a lot of detainees she was shouting free Palestine and she was subdued by the police and that's okay, I don't see that as abuse would you do that to a woman for talking in a way you didn't like if I was a police officer if I was a police officer concerned with the right I certainly would and I think that video, if that's the extent of the video that you're going to show and then listen to the rest of their claims about sexual violence, et cetera, rape dogs and all the stuff that they invent, I think that any person with eyes could see that that is not a proof of abuse.

51:35That is a police action that you could see on any corner of Chicago.

51:39Piers Morgan:I think if you don't think that's how people viewed it, Irish Prime Minister Martin said he was appalled at the shocking behaviour. Even Netanyahu said it wasn't in line with Israel's values. Emmanuel Macron said there was a lot of anger across the EU at the video. So you might be in a very small audience of yourselves. There was a humiliation done to those... Well, there was actually a physical assault. We saw it. Let me bring in Alex Colston. You were also a Gaza flotilla detainee. You know, what is your reaction there? You just heard Ishaif Leishab saying that nothing to see here. thanks for having me on Piers if you both will permit me before I get into a debate but I'm not totally sure I want to have just to get some immediate context about why the flotilla you know set sail in the first place yeah on top of the tens of thousands known to be killed in Gaza over the past three years unilateral Israeli attacks have killed over 930 Palestinians as Pat said daily aid deliveries have dropped to less than 100 trucks a day, drastically shorter than needed 500 or 600 daily trucks with food and essential supplies.

52:49Piers Morgan:Palestinians in Gaza live with rampant infections, diseases, starvation, and chronic medical conditions that are killing them, while civilians are unable to access basic goods. And they also remain exposed to ongoing Israeli violence and environmental risk caused by Israel. There has been total and permanent damage inflicted on Gaza's decimated health care system and basic infrastructure. In Israel's torturous and depraved prison system, there are over 9 ,000 political prisoners, including 400 children. The UN has recently blacklisted, as Pierce said. Israel is now aiming to control over 70 % of the Gaza Strip, and the illegal settlements continue to expand.

53:26Piers Morgan:These settlements are illegal, and they involve violent displacement of Palestinians. Near daily, Israeli strikes hit southern Lebanon. Over the weekend, Israeli airstrike with U.S.-made Apache helicopters killed at least two Palestinians and wounded over a dozen more at a crowded cafe near one of Gaza's seaports, a place where the flotilla potentially could have moored when it reached Gaza. Yesterday, apparently some of the flotilla's solar panels washed up on Gaza's shores, but one Palestinian on the scene described as a small source of hope and care. And I say all this because you need the context for understanding why we sailed.

54:01Piers Morgan:And you also need the context to know that this is what the Israelis are doing daily to understand that they're perfectly capable of brutalizing the flotilla participants because they're perfectly capable. And they do, with well-documented evidence, brutalize Palestinians every single day. And they kill Palestinians in Gaza every single day. You're asking me to somehow question or debate the fact of Israeli violence. There is no world in which that makes any sense. It's completely preposterous set of debate parameters. Clearly, the Israeli military and the Israeli forces are astronomically violent to the Palestinians.

54:44Piers Morgan:And I've witnessed firsthand that they were violent to me, to the people next to me, tased, beaten, kicked. I've seen the bruises myself. The Turkish medical authorities kept them in the hospital until last Monday. Are they also lying? Are they also enemy combatants? This is how the logic works. It's so slippery. There is clear, systematic evidence of Israeli violence every single day. And you're asking me to debate whether that's the case. We know that's the case. So what's the point of this debate? OK, Yishai Fleister, what's your response to that? Well, first thing is that the flotilla, the flotilla members themselves were accused of sexual misconduct on the ships, including this Diego Avila that one of the Palestinian organizations were like, this guy's making sexual trouble for the other participants.

55:37But in any case, they weren't going to bring any humanitarian aid. The humanitarian aid comes through Israel. We have 100 ,000 humanitarian aid trucks have come in. 1.7 million tons of food. 55 tons of medical needs have come through. These guys, the flotilla guys, they're not about helping Palestinians. This whole thing is a sham. This guy is, in fact, a wolf in sheep's clothing. He's a pro-jihad shill. If you go through his X account, you'll not see anything about the Sudanese 14 million people that have been displaced or the Iranian people that 42, 40 something, 40 ,000 people have been murdered in the streets or Nigeria.

56:19He doesn't care. He has one goal. His goal is to besmirch Israel. That's his little role. He's a lackey of the jihad to do that. His job is to besmirch our name around the world. When he came off, he said that he was tied and his hands, we saw his wrists, nothing on it. The whole thing is a sham. He is part of an enemy combatant. He was treated as such by the Israeli military and the Israeli police. He was humiliated, as he should be, and he should be exposed for what he really is, which is an obsessed person with Israel, a person who lies constantly and consistently, a person who doesn't tell you the truth.

56:54I have been an Israeli soldier. I have been at those checkpoints. I've dealt with Arabs. And I know about the decency and the dignity that we have to maintain, that we try to maintain while at the same time fighting the jihad, fighting a world with an ideology to destroy Israel, to destroy our small Jewish state. That's what this thing's about. These people, by the way, his organization, they don't even capitalize the word Israel. They purposefully decapitalize it so that they could be like, to show how repugnant Israel to them, how much they want to see it destroyed. He doesn't want to see two states living side by side.

57:28He doesn't want to see rights for Palestinians. He wants to see the destruction of Israel. That's what he is. He's just a wolf in sheep's clothing. He puts on liberal humanitarian, you know, this look, I'm helping people. You're not helping anybody. You're just making trouble, and you were beaten, not by Israel, but by the Spaniards and Vienna and other places, beaten around the world for being troublemakers. In Israel, they were humiliated, as they should have been, and really they should be exposed for the liars that they are.

57:53Piers Morgan:OK, Alex Coulson, your response.

57:59Piers Morgan:Well, you know, you had said that they weren't beaten and now you just said that they were beaten. You have gone back and forth between humiliated to beaten or whatever. But I just let me finish. All right. I'll let you talk. The fact is, is that this domineering attitude that is on display literally in this conversation is is what people see when they see Israel. They see a country unwilling to recognize the horrors that they've inflicted upon the Palestinian people. They see a country that's unwilling to have any basic common sense about what are the limits to what Israeli forces can do in the region.

58:37Piers Morgan:And again, it's worth just coping out and being completely matter of fact about the brutality of Israeli forces. We can talk about the occupation in the West Bank and we can talk about the severely deadly conditions in Gaza. If you say that there is enough food, well, documentary evidence in the testimonies of people in Palestine would say otherwise. They don't say that. The fact of the matter is that this domineering Israeli control, this attitude that's on display in this conversation, in fact, is precisely what people object to. And the fact that you can come on here and try to smear us as enemy combatants is even more proof that to Israel, if you criticize it, you're an enemy combatant.

59:19Piers Morgan:You're an enemy of the state. You know, it doesn't matter if you're trying to help people in Gaza or not. To you and to people of your ilk, we're all enemy combatants of the state. And that's preposterous. And I think anyone who is just basically reasonable understands that you are the provocateur in this situation. Ben Gavir was the provocateur in the tent. And generally speaking, the Israelis want perfect and permanent impunity for the violence that they inflict. And it seems to be the case that they're going to get away with it unless the governments of the world step in and stop the Israelis from doing this heinous activity to so many people.

59:58The most disgusting part of this conversation to me so far is that not merely are you disputing testimony of sexual abuse, despite there being very obvious Israeli violence that

1:00:13Piers Morgan:was inflicted upon us based on photographic evidence, but that you're using it as a political football to basically exonerate Israel in total, despite the overwhelming evidence of Israeli genocidal violence. That is insane. And like, frankly, like look in the mirror, honestly, like take a look at yourself. Like, look at what you're doing. Look at what you're defending. Look at what you like, how you appear to the international community. Is this how Israelis are? This is how Israelis are. In fact, there is just it beggars belief that I have to even debate this question. The Israelis are permanently hostile to the Palestinians.

1:00:51Piers Morgan:They are deadly. They kill, they raid, they occupy, they imprison, they torture them when they're in prison. There is evidence of all of this. And yet here you are in apparently perfect innocence talking about how it's all the other people's fault. It's all the enemies of Israel's fault. That's insane. And people know people know I think that that's insane. You sure? Well, you know, we have all these minorities in the region, like the Druze and the Kurds and the Iranian people and the Lebanese people. And they're all calling for Israel to help them, rescue them, liberate them, protect them. Is it because of these lies that Alex said a minute ago?

1:01:34No, it's because they see Israel as a liberator in the region. The Kurds see us as people empowering them from all the haters around them. The Druze, they're protected by Israel. The Lebanese want help with Hezbollah and so on and so forth. Israel is the liberation nation of the region. And you talk about people of the world. Well, people of the world, many of them, see Israel as one of the greatest forces. It's actually an amazing decolonialization project, the return of the Jewish people to the land of Israel. If Alex was actually liberal or progressive or whatever he calls himself, he would want to protect the Jewish people, a tiny minority in the region which suffers at the hands of a hundred-year war against us to destroy us.

1:02:11let's call it the jihad or Arab nationalism. And yet we survive miraculously, amazingly. And we push back on enemies. We try to treat friends and people who love Israel with dignity and with upward mobility. And anybody who comes to Israel can see that. Anybody could see that. So all these things that he claims, you know, there's evidence, there's evidence. There is no evidence. The best evidence that you brought on the show is this video of a girl getting pushed down after yelling at police and a minister. any American police officer would do the same thing in just a second. That's your proof.

1:02:45That's your stuff. And we all understand what's happening here. The real awful crime, the Holocaust-like crime of October 7th, and the real disgusting sexual, the mechanized sexual abuse that happened was detailed in the report. They had to hide that. Their offense was to create this whole narrative of sexual abuse. That's what they do. And this guy, Alex, he keeps saying, oh, it's totally obvious, it's totally absurd that we have to discuss it. He only says these things because all he knows are little canned responses. He has canned responses. He says, well, everybody knows, you know it. He doesn't have anything.

1:03:16It's all a sham. And he's a shill for the jihad. He's a front for the jihad. And Arabs, real Arabs, who want liberty and freedom, want to see a stronger Israel that will provide liberty for the region. And not the succumbing to the Hamas, which he basically works for, or the Iranian regime, which he basically, or the Turks. We all know that they're behind this as well. He came in on a flotilla, tried to break through Israel, got arrested, got his ass kicked out of there. And now he's crying. Look what they did to me. Look what they do to the world. The whole thing is a game to besmirch Israel and everybody could see through it.

1:03:48And he was humiliated. I hope he's humiliated again and exposed for the liar that he is.

1:03:53Piers Morgan:OK, we're going to leave it there. Thank you both very much indeed. Well, join me now is Israeli ambassador to the United Nations, Danny Delon. Danny, welcome back to Uncensored. Thank you for having me, Pius. From where I'm looking, this war on Iran is turning into an absolute mess. And it looks increasingly to the rest of the world as if the Iranian regime is feeling more and more emboldened the longer it goes on about the cards it holds specifically in relation to control of the Strait of Hormuz, but also its ability to cause enormous damage to its Gulf state neighbours by firing rockets there, which, of course, dissuades people from wanting to go over to the Middle East and so on.

1:04:41Piers Morgan:What is your response to that? You know, we were told this war would be over very quickly. It would be very quick. If you decapitate the leadership, then the IRGC would self-implode, the people would rise up, and all this kind of stuff would happen. And none of it's happened. You know, the Ayatollah was killed, the leadership with him, a lot of them were killed, but he's been replaced by a son. IRGC remain in control. Strait of Hormuz remains in Iranian control. What's going on here? Pierce, I tend to be more optimistic about the results of the operation, of the war. You know, Iran today is not in the same situation as well before we started the attack.

1:05:20Piers Morgan:But I do agree with you. You know, the way they handle themselves, they actually play the game. They sing the war on the game. They sing the war on the wall. They behave, you know, they act with superiority, so arrogant. But actually, when you look at the facts on the ground, you know, they lost the war. You know, we dismantled their capabilities. Today, they are not in the same situation to threaten the region like they used to do in the past. But with respect, Danny, they've still got their enriched uranium. You haven't got any of that back. They've got complete control of Australia from Hormuz, which they now say they're shutting down again because they've called off...

1:05:58Piers Morgan:They believe the ceasefire has been broken by what you're doing in Lebanon. So this idea you've won the war, what war have you won? Because if the war was to affect regime change, that failed. If the war was to get the enriched uranium to stop them building a nuclear bomb, that has failed. If the war was, as it went on, to seize back control of Australia from Hormuz, That hasn't happened. If the war was to stop Iran attacking its Gulf state neighbours, they've made it crystal clear they'll carry on doing that if they get attacked. I'm not sure. I mean, other than you've clearly destroyed a lot of their military capabilities, but they're replacing that apparently at speed.

1:06:39Piers Morgan:I'm really struggling to see what war you think you've won. So I would remind you, I would remind you, Piers, that Iran was marching toward a nuclear bomb. They had the facilities. They had the uranium. They had the technology. And it was only a matter of weeks or months before the breaking point. And they are not there today. It will take them years to rebuild that capability. But how do you know that? Because you said all that last summer. Again, Danny, again, with respect, Danny Danon, with respect, you guys said all that in the summer of last year after the 12-day war in which you said you'd done exactly what you just articulated.

1:07:16Piers Morgan:And clearly that wasn't true, because if it was true, you wouldn't have needed to go and attack them again three months ago. So something's not happening. Allow me to finish my point before you jump to the next one, please. OK. Iran tried to march to a nuclear bomb. It did not happen. It will not happen. The US and Israel actually showed them that we are determined. We are serious about it. You know, it would have been much, much easier to ignore it and to say, you know what, it's not happening. Maybe next year we'll deal with that. You know, that's what too many leaders did. And look what happened with North Korea.

1:07:54Piers Morgan:So the president of the United States, together with Prime Minister Netanyahu, they decided not to allow it to happen. And that's exactly what they did. Well, it's not perfect. It's not easy. War is a complicated issue. But today, Iran is not in a position the way before that they will decide when to actually build a bomb or use it. It's not on the table anymore. And that is the best achievement of this operation. But I agree with you. We have more to achieve. We should not allow them to go back and to reassemble their capabilities. and that's why we have to make sure that if there is an agreement with them, it will be a real strong enforceable agreement, not like the JCPOA.

1:08:40Piers Morgan:Last week, the United Nations added Israel and Russia to a blacklist for sexual violence in conflict, citing abuse by security forces, including the rape of male detainees. The UN verified sexual abuse of 31 Palestinian men, it said women and children from the Gaza Strip and the Occupy West Bank between 2023 and 2025. And this, of course, followed the Nick Kristof report in the New York Times. Now, the response to all of this has been from the pro-Israeli side, that all of it's complete nonsense, none of this happened, it's all, you know, just invented. But at what point, if the New York Times and now the UN are citing specific examples of what they claim to be the sexual abuse, at what point do the blanket denials continue to be credible?

1:09:30Piers Morgan:That is outrageous. You know, I dealt with this issue for the last year, so I know all the details. You know, it all started exactly a year ago when the UN rightfully decided to put Hamas on that blacklist after October 7th. You know, we all are aware of the evidence, the mass raping, what they did to the poor girls and ladies on that horrible day. So the UN sent the team to Israel. They spoke with the women who were in captivity. They saw videos. They heard testimonials. And they decided to include Hamas. Exactly a week after, there was a campaign to balance the situation and to put Israel on the same list.

1:10:12Piers Morgan:And I was speaking with the officials in the UN for the last year. I invited them to come to Israel. Twice they made plans to come and they canceled their visits. They never gave me even one incident, one testimony to reply. And at the end of the day, the Secretary General Guterres, before he leaves office, he decided to include us on that shameful list. You know, we have law and order. We investigate those situations if they happen. But to put Israel, a strong democracy, on the same list of ISIS and the same list of Hamas terrorists who committed those crimes, that's unacceptable. And that is why I announced that we are done with this secretary general.

1:10:52Piers Morgan:We will not conduct any business with him and he will leave office in the next few months. We will continue to work with the new secretary general that will get elected soon. OK, but what are you done then with Ben Gavir, a member of the Israeli government, who, as the denials were flying in about any abuse against detainees, from the prime minister to everybody else from the Israeli end, as these denials were being made, Ben Gavir, one of the ministers in the government, posted a video actually showing a young female detainee being abused. And we all saw it with our own eyes. So there was, on the one hand, the Israeli government saying, we never abuse detainees, it's all a figment of everyone's imagination.

1:11:39Piers Morgan:And at the same time, one of your ministers, senior ministers, gleefully posting a video in which he was celebrating clear evidence of a young female detainee being abused. Let's be clear about the facts. First, this report goes back to the year of 2025, and it speaks about sexual crimes as a method... You know, but I'm talking about the abuse of this woman in front of our eyes. I'm not saying sexual, but I'm saying it is actually abuse. I think that what you are replying is to the flotilla that people tried to get into Gaza and were arrested and deported, and I am not aware of any sexual abuse about that.

1:12:20Piers Morgan:But, you know, let's look at the facts. We have detainees, but we treat them according to the law. Well, hang on, hang on. OK, but Danny Danon, look, the flotilla's organisers have alleged there were at least 15 examples of sexual assaults. You can deny that. We haven't seen the evidence of that either way. Show me the pap. Show me one complaint. OK, no, you can deny that. You can deny that, but when we see the video that Ben Gavir proudly posted, we can see a young woman being physically abused. Not sexually, not saying that, but being physically abused. Do you condemn that abuse and do you accept that when one of your own government ministers is gleefully celebrating actual abuse that we see with our own eyes of a young woman, that it flies in the face of these blanket denials of any mishandling or any mistreatment of detainees?

1:13:13Piers Morgan:So let's be clear about the facts. First, we condemn any sexual abuse worldwide. You know, when you look at the horrible picture of what's happening today in some countries in Africa, in Sudan, and you read the report and you see that there were thousands of cases, you know what they said about Israel? they said that there are some reports of 31 cases. Why they didn't share them with us? Okay, let me look. Let me just try and be, I don't want to be pedantic, but let me just play you the video that I'm talking about that Ben Gavir posted.

1:14:06Piers Morgan:And when you see what happened to that woman at the start of that video, what do you feel about that? Well, I haven't seen any sexual abuse in that video. I didn't say sexual abuse. I was very specific. We are talking about sexual abuse. She was being physically abused, right? I mean, you accept that, Danny. You haven't shown what happened before. And from my experience... She shouted, free, free Palestine. And for that, she got physically abused. What she did before. So many times when you show part of the videos, and then she was detained. She was illegally trying to break into Gaza. She was detained and deported.

1:14:36Piers Morgan:You don't condemn the way she was treated. Maybe you will show the audience the videos what happened to those people when they arrived to Spain and other locations in Europe. No, no, I'm asking specifically about her being physically abused in the way we saw on that video. You either want to condemn it or you don't. I don't think she was abused. And by the way, those detainees when they arrived to Europe after we deported them, They conducted riots at the airports, and you should see how the authorities in Spain tweeted them. I don't really care about what the... I haven't got the Spanish ambassador on the show, so...

1:15:11Piers Morgan:I can send you the video. You can show to the audience that you don't... Send me the video. Send me the video. I'm more interested in what your own government minister gleefully put out on his social media account, because it's that kind of thing, Danny Denon, which causes enormous damage to the reputation of the Israeli government and, therefore, by default, Israel. And you know that because in America now, for the first time ever, more people have a negative view of Israel than have a positive view of it. And one of the reasons is you've got, and I say this respectfully to you because I don't categorise you as this, but you have got in Ben Gavir and Smodrich and people like that in the government, absolute psychopaths.

1:15:50Piers Morgan:Ben Gavir, for his 50th birthday several weeks ago, was given a cake by his wife of a noose. And they were all celebrating it. You know, I just don't understand how people like yourself can tolerate that kind of behaviour from high-profile ministers, knowing the damage it causes to your country's reputation? Why don't you just condemn it? We have a strong democracy. We have freedom of speech. We have more than 30 ministers. But at the end of the day, you have to look at the policy of the government. I am proud of our soldiers. I am proud of the way they conduct the defence of our people. And it's not easy, but we keep morality.

1:16:27Piers Morgan:It's a value for us, and we will continue to do that. And that's what makes the difference between us and the terrorists we are fighting. But I don't think manhandling and physically assaulting a young woman when she says free, free Palestine is the best way of proving what you've just said. Maybe, maybe. But as I told you, you have to look what happened before, what she did before. And many times when you have riots and the police interfere, it's not pleasant. But when we speak about the report of the UN, there is no connection between what you show to that report. That's the problem with the attacks against Israel.

1:17:02Piers Morgan:You take pieces of information, you put it together, and you create the narrative. Exactly like the New York Times. Well, I didn't put any information together. I just literally played what your minister posted on his social media account. That's the problem. That's the problem. You can say that it was taken out of context, but it was posted by your own government minister, and it features him gleefully laughing and celebrating what just happened to that woman. That's the problem, Danny. And so you can say it's the media and we're doing this and doing that and chopping it up and misconstruing it, but it's your guy, Ben Gavir, posting it on his social media with that specific cut.

1:17:44Piers Morgan:He chose to show the world that and chose to show the world he celebrated it. And so when I hear you say there's never been any manhandling or mistreatment of detainees, I say I've just literally played a clip put out by your guy, Ben Gavir, from your government, which gleefully celebrates a young detainee woman being physically assaulted. And you can't find it in yourself to condemn it. And I find that bizarre. The easier thing to do would be to say he was completely out of order, which even your prime minister condemned it. But you don't seem as, you seem too reluctant. Why? You know, I condemn those people who try to break into Israel.

1:18:25Piers Morgan:Okay. create those anarchists, you know, that they demonstrate, you know, in their capital and then come to Israel. And with all the respect, you know, I saw that video. I was not shocked by it. You know, it wasn't like an accident. You know, she came to create provocations. She was detained. And while she was detained, she tried to create more provocations. And, you know, we started this conversation about blaming us for conducting sexual crimes. And then at the end of the day, we finish the conversation about this incident. Well, because the New York Times has stood by Nick Christoph's reporting about the sexual crimes in Israeli prisons against Palestinians.

1:19:07Piers Morgan:I don't know. I'm sure you read it. He actually blamed us training dogs to sexually attack detainees. Yeah, and the New York Times has stood by his reporting. Yeah, maybe they were telling us. Well, OK, you say it's not true. Prime Minister Netanyahu... Prime Minister Netanyahu has said he's going to sue. He's going to sue the New York Times. Is he actually going to sue or is he going to do what he often does, which is threaten to sue and then not actually sue? I hope so. I hope they will be sued and they will apologise for that. OK. You know, it's so easy to spread lies. They should be accountable.

1:19:41Piers Morgan:There's a lot of people spreading lies about Israel abusing prisoners. well you know they're spreading lies about israel at the fact since october 7th we saw that you know anti-semitism is on the rise and even after we we have a ceasefire in gaza they continue to spread lies about israel it's becoming popular unfortunately you get more likes and traction on social media when you spread lies about israel yeah that is certainly one way of looking at it. But Danny DeMond, I always appreciate you coming on Uncensored. Thank you very much. Thank you. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me.

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