In short
Podcast Summary: Piers Morgan Uncensored - "Do You Just HATE Muslims?!"
Episode Overview In this episode of Piers Morgan Uncensored, Piers Morgan engages in a heated debate with Congressman Randy Fine, who recently sparked outrage with a controversial statement on social media regarding his preference for dogs over Muslims. Following this, Mehdi Hasan, editor in chief of Zeteo News, joins to provide commentary and discuss various political issues including the Epstein scandal and the upcoming midterms.
Key Discussions
Congressman Randy Fine's Controversial Comments
- Inciting Outrage: Randy Fine made a post on X (formerly Twitter) stating, "If they force us to choose, the choice between dogs and Muslims is not a difficult one." This sparked backlash from politicians and commentators across the political spectrum, with Gavin Newsom calling him a "racist slob" and Megyn Kelly labeling him a "pathetic, sweaty bigot."
- Defense of His Statement:
- Fine argues that his comments were in response to a Muslim leader's claim that dogs should not be indoor pets. He believes that if Muslims want to live in America, they should not expect to change American customs.
- Morgan confronts Fine about the brazen nature of his comments, pointing out the potential bigotry in his statements and emphasizing how his phrasing lacked nuance and qualification.
Mehdi Hasan's Response
- Rejection of Fine's Logic: Hasan argues that Fine's explanation is nonsensical and reflects a long history of bigotry. He highlights that Fine has made numerous disparaging comments about Palestinians and Muslims, framing these as emblematic of the contemporary Republican Party.
- Condemning Islamophobia: Hasan criticizes the normalization of such rhetoric within the GOP, stating that it reflects a broader pattern of Islamophobia and racism in the party.
Broader Political Conversations
- Epstein Scandal:
- Hasan discusses the ongoing Epstein files scandal, labeling it the "biggest political scandal" of his lifetime, comparable to Watergate.
- Both Morgan and Hasan express concerns over the lack of transparency and the potential implications for powerful individuals involved.
- Discussion on AOC and Taiwan:
- The conversation shifts to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's recent comments regarding U.S. military involvement in Taiwan, which Hasan acknowledges were awkwardly articulated but contends do not equate to the absurdities often expressed by Donald Trump.
Conclusion
- The episode highlights the increasing polarization in American politics, particularly around issues of race, religion, and immigration. Both Morgan and Hasan demonstrate the challenges of navigating these sensitive topics in the current political climate, emphasizing the need for clear, respectful discourse.
Key Takeaways
- Polarization: The episode illustrates the deep divisions within American political discourse, particularly regarding race and religion.
- Media Responsibility: Both Morgan and Hasan touch on the importance of responsible media narratives that do not amplify harmful rhetoric.
- Political Accountability: The discussion raises questions about the accountability of public officials and the implications of their statements on society at large.
Final Thoughts This episode serves as a reminder of the ongoing cultural and political debates in the U.S., with emphasis on the responsibility of public figures to moderate their rhetoric and the necessity for thoughtful dialogue in an increasingly fragmented society.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VORandy Fine's Controversial Statements
0:32 to 2:22
Discussion on Randy Fine's inflammatory remarks and their backlash.
“I have to choose between having dogs which are part of the fabric of the United States and a group of people who want to come here and say I can't have them, they can go home.”
The Dogs vs. Muslims Debate
2:26 to 3:52
Piers Morgan confronts Randy Fine about his choice between dogs and Muslims.
“We will not be shamed into being conquered like the Europeans.”
Fine's Defense of His Comments
3:58 to 7:34
Randy Fine explains his perspective on choosing between cultural practices.
“First, I would sort of clarify what's actually occurred here.”
Understanding Religious Differences
7:48 to 14:00
Discussion on how different religions perceive animals and cultural practices.
“And look, these people can lose their minds.”
Controversy Over Mayor Mamdani
14:39 to 16:41
Discussion about the controversial views on New York's Muslim mayor.
“Last week, you called for the denaturalization and deportation of New York's new Muslim mayor, Zahran Mamdani.”
Perceptions of Muslims in America
16:42 to 18:23
Exploring attitudes toward Muslims and the implications for American values.
“So I don't how you could even make that statement.”
Bigotry and Double Standards
18:24 to 20:46
Analyzing the bigotry in public discourse and its impact on different communities.
“The call to prayer in Minneapolis at 3.30 in the morning.”
Response to Randy Fine's Remarks
20:47 to 22:45
Mehdi Hasan responds to Randy Fine's controversial statements on Muslims.
“It's not that Christy Noem doesn't like a dog.”
The Republican Party's Stance on Islam
22:46 to 24:25
Discussion on the Republican Party's complicity in Islamophobia.
“He cheered and celebrated on Twitter when someone sent him a picture of a dead Palestinian baby.”
The Epstein Files Scandal
25:01 to 28:00
Examining the implications of the Epstein files and political connections.
“this is, as I've said a few times recently, this is the biggest political and royal scandal of my lifetime, and seems to be getting worse, not better, as it goes on.”
Show all 18 chapters
Trump and Epstein: A Scandal Uncovered
28:00 to 29:40
Discussion on Trump's connections to Epstein and potential cover-ups.
“He's looked at everything and he says there's nothing criminal against Trump.”
Conspiracy Theories and Public Perception
29:40 to 31:30
Exploration of conspiracy theories surrounding powerful figures and their implications.
“This is the page they have from last summer called Prominent Names.”
AOC's Munich Conference Controversy
31:30 to 34:10
Analysis of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's responses at the Munich conference.
“and the midterms coming up pretty soon now, right?”
Comparing AOC and Trump: A Debate
34:10 to 36:20
Debate on the communication styles and policies of AOC versus Trump.
“is actually what I would question the premise of your entire discussion.”
Critique of Trump's Leadership and Rhetoric
36:20 to 42:00
Intense discussion on Trump's rhetoric and leadership style, including accusations of insanity.
“I haven't heard such a strident piece of apologia since comical Ali in the Iraq war when he was trying to explain why the Americans...”
Debating Trump's Controversial Statements
42:00 to 43:30
Discussing Trump's statements and their implications regarding racism.
“Are those not views you want to condemn?”
Analyzing Potential Democratic Candidates
43:30 to 45:40
Evaluating the strengths of various Democratic candidates for the next election.
“Who do you think is going to be the Democrat nominee?”
The Future of Trump and Republican Figures
45:40 to 46:07
Speculating on Trump's potential 2024 run and key Republican figures.
“The only reason I would like to see Donald Trump try and run again is purely to see your face.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Randy Fine:This episode is brought to you by Venmo. With the Venmo debit card, a taco in one hand, and ordering a ride in the other means you're stacking your rewards. Nice. Get up to 5 % cash back with Venmo Stash on your favorite brands when you pay with your Venmo debit card. Pick a bundle with your go-tos and start earning cash back. Do more stash, get more cash. Visit Venmo.com to learn more. Venmo Stash bundle terms and exclusions apply. See terms at Venmo.me slash stashterms. Max$100 cash back per month.
0:32Randy Fine:I have to choose between having dogs which are part of the fabric of the United States and a group of people who want to come here and say I can't have them, they can go home. Sharia is coming and I'm simply saying we aren't going to put up with it.
0:46Piers Morgan:Do you basically just hate Muslims?
0:50Mehdi Hasan:This is the Republican Party of today, Peter. It's a far-right, fascistic, white supremacist party. Should the U.S.
0:56Randy Fine:actually commit U.S. troops to defend Taiwan? You know, I think that we are moving in all of our positions to avoid for that question to even arise.
1:06Piers Morgan:Donald Trump's sentences make AOC look like the most eloquent woman in history. But one of the reasons Donald Trump got re-elected is that you guys have got literally Trump derangement syndrome. You have TDS peers, you have Trump denial syndrome.
1:22Piers Morgan:Congressman Randy Fine has become a bete noire for those who believe that Israel has undue influence on American politics. It's not only the fact that he supports Israel, which they don't like, but rather the way that he does it. A post by the Congressman on X this week stating that he chews dogs over Muslims drew a ferocious backlash from across the aisle. Gavin Newsom called him a racist slob. Megyn Kelly, the conservative commentator, said he was a pathetic, sweaty bigot. Well here to justify what he did is Randy Fine, the Republican Congressman in Florida. Congressman, welcome back to Uncensored.
1:56Randy Fine:Thanks, Pierce. Thanks for having me.
1:58Piers Morgan:It takes quite something to unite Gavin Newsom and Megyn Kelly. And what it was, was what you posted on X. You said, if they force us to choose, the choice between dogs and Muslims is not a difficult one. To which I responded to you when I read that, you disgusting prick. To which you responded, Piers, what is disgusting? is a major New York City Muslim leader saying we must give up our dogs because NYC is coming to Islam. We will not be shamed into being conquered like the Europeans. I choose my dog. Then you said, I know my first appearance on your show didn't go well for you, but if you want to try again, I'm happy to administer another beating, which I'm very, very pleased to see that you've decided to do that again, me now having recovered from the first one.
2:50Piers Morgan:The comment you were responding to was by someone who had been on my show a few times, Nurdine Kizwani. She's the co-founder of the pro-Palestinian group Within Our Lifetime. She wrote this, Finally, NYC is coming to Islam. Dogs definitely have a place in society, just not as indoor pets. Like we've said all along, they are unclean. She later clarified, Also clearly trying to weigh in on an issue unaware of the current NYC discourse, where we're collectively jokingly hating on dogs, given all the visible dog shit and the unmelted snow, laughing my ass off, followed by laughing my ass off at the Zionist frothing at the mouth of this, thinking they're doing something.
3:29Piers Morgan:It's obviously a joke. I don't care if you have a dog. I do care if your dog is shitting everywhere and you're not cleaning it. So she says she made a glib comment, which is intended as a joke. I certainly read it that way. But your response, the reason it enraged people so much, was just so brazenly bigoted. You made no attempt to even hide it. The choice between dogs and Muslims is not a difficult one. Explain what possessed you to do that.
3:57Randy Fine:Well, thanks, Piers. First, I would sort of clarify what's actually occurred here. That woman made that comment. There was nothing funny. There was nothing sarcastic about it. It said, finally, Islam is coming to New York. Dogs are unclean, and we should not have dogs as indoor pets. No reasonable interpretation could find that funny. Several days later, after millions of people had seen it, she tried to backtrack by saying that it was a joke. And my response was clearly in response to that. And you left out the important part of it. I said, if they force us to choose, I don't want to choose. If Muslims want to be in the United States and they want to practice their religion and go to mosque, that's great.
4:42Randy Fine:But if they make us choose, as this woman would like us to, between owning a dog and having our neighbors say you can't have a dog, the choice is not a difficult one, I think, for me and the overwhelming majority of Americans. I think that's simple. I don't know how in this country, that's exactly what I said. I don't know how in this country we reach the point where not only do we have to let people come here, but we then have to change how we live in order to make them happy. I don't agree with that. And I'm not ashamed of saying it.
5:17Piers Morgan:But you see, if only you had phrased yourself exactly how you've just phrased yourself, it wouldn't have caused half the outrage it caused. I reject that. Muslims who hate... Well, no. You just qualified it by saying something you didn't actually say. You said Muslims who hate dogs or whatever. You qualified it. Actually, what you tweeted, and I'll repeat the whole thing in full, if they force us to choose, the choice between dogs and Muslims is not a difficult one. As Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said about what you said, this is genuinely one of the most disgusting statements I've ever seen issued by an American official.
5:55Piers Morgan:It should not stop shocking us that the Republican Party openly embraces this. Fines should be censored and stripped of committees. To ignore this is to accept and normalize it. Gavin Newsom, California governor, said resign now, you racist slob. You read Gavin Newsom's comment already, Pierce.
6:11Randy Fine:I think you've read it three times now. Hang on, hang on,
6:16Piers Morgan:hang on, hang on, hang on one second. Let me just finish my point. Ro Khanna said we must call this what it is, disgusting bigotry, Fine must be censored. It's about morality and decency, not politics. But then crucially, as I said earlier, Megyn Kelly, who is a prominent conservative commentator... I understand. You have said this multiple times. Hang on. Hang on. No, I'm going to read her whole quote. Somebody who would never normally stand behind any of those three people said, what I figured out, you pathetic, sweaty man, is when an idiot Muslim says no dogs in NYC, instead of attacking the person of the policy, policy.
6:53Piers Morgan:You went full bigot. Fuck off, she said. Now, that's the truth. It's the way you phrase what you posted gave no equivocation. So let me ask you a question. No clarification. No qualification. You simply said dogs against Muslims.
7:09Randy Fine:I know it's your show and I try to be respectful, but I'd like a chance to speak. What you didn't do is in my post, I immediately posted the comment that I was responding to. So the context was there and it was obvious for anyone who wanted to read it, the comments not being made out of the blue. I'd also note, I'm not saying that Muslims or dogs are better than one or the other. I'm saying if you give me the choice where I can only have one, if you're going to tell me I have to change how I live, I choose to tell you to go home. And look, I don't, if people are upset about it, that's up to them.
7:47Randy Fine:But the point remains true. I don't want to make that choice. And look, these people can lose their minds. AOC can go to Germany. So let me ask you this. This is a bunch of gibberish. All right. So let me ask you this. Okay.
8:02Piers Morgan:Let me ask you a question. What religion do you practice?
8:05Randy Fine:I am Jewish. And I would note this. I do not expect people to change how they live, because I am part of a religious minority. I don't.
8:15Piers Morgan:Fine, fine. Okay, so would you say the same thing? If somebody posted, if they force us to choose, the choice between dogs and Jews is not a difficult one. That's a great question.
8:27Randy Fine:Absolutely, yes. But the difference here is that Jews are not asking people to give up their dogs. Jews don't eat pork, but we don't tell people that they can't sell it. One of the things that people are learning through all of this is this dislike of dogs is not unique. This is a mainstream Islamic view. And I'm not criticizing it. Different religions like different animals. Hindus worship cows. Good for them. Muslims don't like dogs. That's okay. I'm not criticizing that. But they are the ones asking us to submit to their faith. And that's not okay in the United States of America. There are 57 countries where you can live under Sharia law.
9:09Randy Fine:It's my job to make sure we don't become number 58.
9:13Piers Morgan:Where did anybody say that you had to do this?
9:18Randy Fine:Make that post? I think you can make that argument. That post doesn't say that. Where did anyone say you to do what? I'm sorry.
9:28Piers Morgan:Where have you got the entire Muslim population of two billion people saying the dogs all have to go. Where have I read that?
9:37Randy Fine:Pierce, Pierce, in Morocco, they're shooting three million dogs in order to get ready for the World Cup. In Judea and Samaria, a mayor paid$5 a dog for everyone that was hunted down. The videos are out there. This is not, and again, I'm not criticizing it. You're allowed to not like an animal. If that's part of your faith, I'm not criticizing that part of it. In your own country, There have been articles and discussions about Muslims not wanting dogs in certain parts of it. They are allowed to not like dogs. That's fine. But what they're not allowed to do is to come to my country and tell me I can't have one.
10:16Randy Fine:And this woman is not unique in her views about that. I've not seen any quote.
10:21Piers Morgan:Where did anybody say you couldn't have a dog?
10:29Randy Fine:her tweet specifically says islam is coming to new york city dogs are not clean they should not be held as indoor pets i mean i think it's very clear what she is saying and again that is not a unique sentiment from many who share that faith so i'm just saying come here live your life live in privacy hate dogs all you want that's okay just don't tell me that i can't have one don't tell my constituents that I can't have one. And again, if I have to choose between having dogs, which are part of the fabric of the United States, 65 percent of households have one and a group of people who want to come here and say, I can't have them.
11:09Randy Fine:They can go home in moving to America. It means that you are going to assimilate into America, not that you're going to be just to be clear for you.
11:19Piers Morgan:Just to be clear, it was one Muslim who says she was joking and it certainly read like a joke. No, no, no. And she didn't talk about... Two days later... Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. She didn't talk about you or your dog or anybody else's dog, right? And you decide to respond by branding all two billion Muslims as people you would rather not have if it comes to a choice between dogs and them.
11:49Randy Fine:Yeah, well, what I said again is if I... If a group of people says, we want to live in your country, but you can't own a dog, which is again, what she said. Who said that? Who said you can't own a dog? By the way, that's why 2.6 million people had seen the comment and lit her up before I said anything. My view on this is not unique. I don't have an outlandish view on this. This is what she said. And I'm simply saying I want people in my country who want to assimilate into my country that don't force it to change. And you should understand this. In your home country, you're having to make accommodations for groups of people.
12:31Randy Fine:I saw the debate in Parliament over whether cousin marriage should be allowed. If people want to move to the West, they should agree to live by Western standards, not make us change to the ones from where they came. If they want that, they can go home. And I'm not going to apologize for that. We never thought 25 years after 9-11, we'd be hearing the call to prayer in New York City. But we are now hearing that this is coming. Sharia is coming. And I'm simply saying we aren't going to put up with it.
13:03Piers Morgan:But anything that's practiced by Jews in New York City, which has more Jewish people living in it than any place outside of Tel Aviv, that's all fine. It's just anything to do with the Muslim faith of Israel.
13:14Randy Fine:And by the way, I am not aware of Jews asking non-Jews to change how they live. When I was a kid and I went to Passover and I brought matzah because I couldn't eat bread, I didn't expect the school cafeteria to give up bread for the eight days. If I don't want to work on Shabbat, I don't expect other people to do that. As Jews, we understand what it is like to live as a minority in a Christian world. And we're okay with it. That is America. Other people who come here with their own religions need to make the same choices. They need to respect where they come from, not force that place to submit.
14:11Piers Morgan:helps you relax and get deep, refreshing sleep. They have countless success stories, including from some very familiar faces. England legend Michael Owen, who lost 40 pounds. AFTV's Robbie, who lost more than 100 pounds. To watch their full stories and many more, scan the QR code on your screen or visit oxfordnatural.com slash peers. And here's the best part, use the code peers and get 70 % off your first order. You're 70 % off with the code PEERS. Last week, you called for the denaturalization and deportation of New York's new Muslim mayor, Zahran Mamdani. You labelled him Jihadi Mamdani. Do you have any evidence that he is a jihadi Islamic extremist who wants to commit acts of terrorism?
15:02Randy Fine:Yeah, he campaigned with... Part of why this woman is so interesting, The woman he campaigned with advises him is the woman that you're speaking in general, who is responsible for globalize the Antifada, college, you know, radicalism and all of these other things. He won't say globalize the Antifada is a bad thing. He stood up and he said that America needs to model its immigration policy off of the way Islam does it, yet non-Muslims can't go to Mecca. I mean, it's crazy the sort of things that we're seeing in New York. And yeah, I actually think I've got a real issue with him as mayor. I don't think he was honest to become a citizen.
Read the full transcript
15:42Randy Fine:I think he should be denaturalized and deported. And I've said that for a long time.
15:48Piers Morgan:Denaturalized and deported. Because the Mamdani I've been listening to has been, since he was elected mayor, talking in a very inclusive manner about all people who want to live in New York. I've not heard a single jihadi sentiment come out of his mouth. In fact, quite the opposite. He's gone out of his way, for example, to try and mend a lot of the appalling bridges that have gone up between Jews and Muslims because of what's happened in Gaza, for example. That's all I've seen. I've not seen a guy... Are you kidding me? I've not seen... I mean,
16:20Randy Fine:every single person he appoints... Every single person he appoints has the most horrific backgrounds, involvement with CARE, which has been designated a terrorist organization in Florida and Texas, saying the most horrific things. I'm astounded that you would make that statement. And again, saying that he is not going to work with ICE because he wants to follow the precepts of Islam, which say non-Muslims can't go to Mecca. So I don't how you could even make that statement. It's an absurd one.
16:55Piers Morgan:Do you basically just hate Muslims?
16:58Randy Fine:Not at all. Not not in the least. I like radical Muslims. So there are Muslims who want to live in peace with us. Not every Muslim wants to take our dog away. Many come to America for freedom and opportunity. And I think that is fantastic. But I don't like those who want to come to our country and fundamentally change it. And by the way, I don't care if they're Muslim. I don't care if they're anything. If you want to come to the United States, you should love this place, share its values and want to be a part of it. You should you should not demand that it's going to change to be you. But I have seen the most horrific things.
17:35Randy Fine:October 7th radicalized me. Watching on October 7th, Muslims in Tampa, Florida, have a rally celebrating while people were being killed, listening to voicemails of parents, of children, calling their parents in joy because they had shot and killed 10 people. I saw what aspects of this culture are capable of. That does not mean they are all like that. They are not. But the problem we have in the media is they categorize it as though it is this tiny, teeny, weeny fringe. It's not. It's meaningful. It's also not 100 percent, but it's also not 0.1 percent. And I think that we have to have these discussions.
18:18Randy Fine:The examples are too great. The Muslim mayor in Dearborn who told a Christian preacher, you're no longer welcome in our city. The call to prayer in Minneapolis at 3.30 in the morning. I mean, these are not things that are simply okay in the United States. And I think we should say, come here, become part of us. Don't come here and demand that we change.
18:40Piers Morgan:What percentage of Muslims do you think want to come and take your dogs away?
18:45Randy Fine:I don't know the answer to that, but I do know there's polling that shows, for example, and by the way, my colleague Brandon Gill did a spectacular job of walking through this data last week in a congressional hearing. There is a very large percentage of Muslims who supported Hamas. American Muslims, forget the ones over there. There's a very large percentage of American Muslims who want to live under Sharia. The fact that it's not 100 % does not mean that it is not a problem. And it's also not 1%. These are meaningful percentages of people who are demanding we submit to how they want to live.
19:23Randy Fine:Again, if I have to choose between my dog and people who tell me I can't have it, the choice is very easy. And by the way, I think that is the view of 98 percent of Americans. If Democrats want to take the you're a bigot if you're not OK with giving up your dog argument, then fine. We'll campaign on that all day. But I know that's not where the American people are.
19:45Piers Morgan:I think the reason you managed to inspire such revulsion across the aisle was because you didn't qualify that it was about Muslims who want to take away people's dogs. It absolutely was, Pierce. No, no, you just said... No, but hang on. You just said Muslims in their entirety, two billion of them. And as Nadine pointed out to you afterwards, Christy Noem bragged about shooting her own dog. You may remember the story. In her memoir, she had a dog called Cricket. I do. And I don't think it's OK. Well, hang on. Who was untrainable and dangerous. She led the dog to a gravel pit and shot it. It wasn't a pleasant job, but it had to be done.
20:32Should she be deported?
20:35Randy Fine:I think you're conflating two things. I don't think shooting a dog is an OK thing to do. She shot a dog. But Christy Noem is not telling me I have to shoot my dog. That's the difference. It's not that Christy Noem doesn't like a dog. It's not that Nerdine and so many others don't like dogs. It's that they are telling me Islam is coming to New York City. You're not going to have a dog. And I don't want to shoot. All right, so just to be clear,
21:06Piers Morgan:if Christy Noem was coming to New York City, you wouldn't be worried about her shooting everybody's dog. You don't think you should get in first? Not in the least, no.
21:14Randy Fine:And do I think she should have shot her dog? Of course I don't. But she's not saying, I demand everyone else shoot their dogs. That's what's happening. You know the difference? They're not the same. No, the difference... That's not the difference.
21:25Piers Morgan:The difference is, if Kristi Noem was a Muslim, you'd want her deported. Randy Fine, thank you very much indeed for joining me. I appreciate it.
21:33Randy Fine:Thank you.
21:34Piers Morgan:Well, the botched release of the Epstein files has tested the patience of many of Trump's most law supporters. For his fiercest critics, it's been a field day. Mehdi Hassan, editor-in-chief of Zateo News, has broken world records for tweets per minute over the past few weeks on X, and he joins me now. Mehdi, welcome back to Uncensored. Before we get to your world record burst on X, and I can understand why, by the way, just your response to Congressman Randy Fine, who basically thinks that if it comes to a choice between dogs and Muslims, he'll choose dogs. You've heard his explanation. What did you make of it?
22:13Mehdi Hasan:I mean, it's a nonsense explanation, which, as you pointed out, he would never accept for any other minority group, including his own, including for Jewish people in the US. I'm glad you pushed him on his horrific bigotry, although I would say that one thing that was missing from that interview was the context, right? Anyone watching Randy Fine for the first time might think it was just this one tweet that we're debating. This man has a long history of bigotry, Piers, as you know. A day before he tweeted about picking dogs over Muslims, he tweeted, Palestinian is a synonym for evil. All Palestinians are evil, according to him.
22:43Mehdi Hasan:In the past, he's called for the new king of Gaza. He said, starve away when people have talked about Palestinian children starving. He cheered and celebrated on Twitter when someone sent him a picture of a dead Palestinian baby. He said, thank you very much. The man is vile. He's racist. His rhetoric is genocidal. And he lied to you, Piers, when he said, I'm just against radical Muslims. He's, again, on record. Go check his Twitter. He says mainstream Islam is pure evil. That means that Islam practiced by all two billion people around the world is evil. This is what he says. So this is the Republican Party of today, Piers.
23:14Mehdi Hasan:I've been trying to tell you about it for the last two years on your show. It's a far-right, fascistic, white supremacist party. If Randy Fiennes said that about any other group, we would be saying that is Nazi rhetoric from the 1930s and 40s.
23:26Piers Morgan:Well, I wouldn't judge the whole Republican Party by what Randy Fiennes says. I do think he's an outlier, not on his own. Why haven't they called him out?
23:34Mehdi Hasan:They're complicit. But, Piers, they're complicit. Well, they should. I agree they should. Silence is complicity.
23:40Piers Morgan:But when Megyn Kelly... Never done anything to Randy Fein. When Megyn Kelly lined up to condemn him, that was a good thing, right?
23:50Mehdi Hasan:100%. And she's a podcaster, though. The actual elected Republican Party and the President in the White House, your pal, won't say anything about this. And the problem is because they've all said similar Islamophobic things. It's not just Randy Fein. He mentioned his friend Brandon Gill, who also says ridiculously, anti-Islamophobic things, calls for me to be deported, Mamdani to be deported. You have people like Andy Ogles who said horrific things about Islam and Muslims. So the rot is across the entire party, unfortunately. This party now has embraced Islamophobia and racism of all kinds, anti-Semitism, anti-black racism.
24:20Mehdi Hasan:We saw with the recent Trump post, it's a problem for the party as a whole. Fine is just the most egregious, repulsive avatar of it.
24:29Randy Fine:I'm R.J. Decker, the private investigator, uncovering the sunshine state's darkest secrets.
24:36Mehdi Hasan:Tuesdays, it's the premiere of ABC's hottest new crime show.
24:40Randy Fine:R.J. freaking Decker as I live and breathe. He's a private eye. It's not a standard murder. It's someone bigger. And a public mess.
24:47Mehdi Hasan:Trying to get someone back to prison today?
24:49Randy Fine:You go to prison one time and suddenly it's all the jokes. R.J. Decker, series premiere, Tuesdays on ABC and stream on Hulu.
25:00Piers Morgan:Let's turn to the Epstein files, because it seems to me, this is, as I've said a few times recently, this is the biggest political and royal scandal of my lifetime, and seems to be getting worse, not better, as it goes on. It reminds me a bit of Watergate with bells on. Watergate began as a very slow burner, took a couple of years to really explode. And you're seeing the same thing with the Epstein files. and you're seeing a lot of people hoisted by their own petard, by their own lies, with all the documentary evidence coming out showing how they lied. Have you ever seen anything quite like this?
25:38Piers Morgan:And what do you feel about Attorney General Pam Bondi saying, that's it, you've had all the files, even though we know there are many redactions in the ones that have been put out, some of them totally baffling, and we also know there are apparently 3 million more files that they have no intention of releasing.
25:59Mehdi Hasan:Yes, without a shadow of that, the biggest political scandal of my lifetime. I'm 46 years old. You mentioned Watergate. I mean, Watergate in the US, the Profumo affair in the UK. These look like walk in the parks compared to what we're seeing recently. And the number of powerful people globally have been caught up in this. A United Nations panel of experts this week, Piers, said this could amount to a crime against humanity. Just what we've learned from the redacted files. They talk about it being a global criminal enterprise that is systemically engaged in the trafficking of young girls and women.
26:28Mehdi Hasan:And yet you have Kash Patel, the director of the FBI, going in front of Congress last year, Piers, and saying, there's no evidence Epstein trafficked anyone. Right? That's what he said under oath in front of the Senate. You have Pam Bondi, as you say, saying, that's it, no more. Her deputy saying nothing else to be seen. We know that Donald Trump's name, thanks to Jamie Raskin, congressman who went and looked in the files, underdacted, he says he saw a million references in his searches to Donald Trump. According to the New York Times, in the redacted files, we have 38 ,000 references to Donald Trump, his wife, Mar-a-Lago.
26:57Mehdi Hasan:So that's 96 % of the mentions of Trump are missing from what you and I can see. That's a huge scandal. Richard Nixon was, you know, organizing a burglary at the Democratic National Committee headquarters. Donald Trump is accused in these files. I want to be clear, he's a very litigious man. There's no evidence of criminality on Donald Trump's part. But there are accusations from people the FBI interviewed in the files claiming all sorts of things about Donald Trump having allegedly done sex acts with children, assaulted children, threatened children. We have no idea if they're true or not. I have no evidence to say they're true.
27:27Mehdi Hasan:But shouldn't they be... Well, we do. Hang on, hang on. This is where you have to be careful.
27:31Piers Morgan:Well, hang on, hang on. This is where you have to be careful, because we do, because in the more extreme cases like that, they've been investigated and they've been ruled out as fantasy staff or people trying to be malicious or whatever it may be. Not all of them, Piers. Actually, everything in relation to... Some yes, I agree with you. Well, no, everything in relation to Trump that involved alleged criminality has been ruled out. And the reason I'm comfortable in saying that is I interviewed David Boies yesterday. He was Virginia Gufresne's lawyer, one of the top criminal lawyers in modern American history.
28:01Piers Morgan:He's looked at everything and he says there's nothing criminal against Trump. But I do think it's important to say that. I don't think his motivation, Trump, in trying to shut this down is about himself. I think it's actually about a lot of people he knows.
28:17Mehdi Hasan:Well, I agree with that. And he told Marjorie Taylor Greene, according to MTG, that you're going to hurt my friends, which in itself is a massive scandal, and I think you would agree, if he is covering up for rich and powerful friends. We know how many Trump people are in the files in very awkward positions, lying about their relationships, from Elon Musk to Howard Lutnick, Mehmet Oz, multiple... That's why Thomas Massey is now calling this the Epstein administration. But just on Trump, I just want to mention a couple of things. I just brought this along just to remind myself. Donald Trump travelled on Epstein's private jet many more times than has previously been reported or that we were aware.
28:49Mehdi Hasan:That's an email from one of his own DOJ lawyers in 2020. Trump lied, Piers, when he said he never went on the plane. He went on the plane eight times. We know, for example, that Epstein wrote in 2011, Donald Trump spent hours at my house with a victim. He referred to Trump being at his house as the dog that hasn't barked. He said in 2019, Trump knew about the girls. Now, he could be lying, Epstein. He's a horrible convicted sex offender. But the point is, we've not had full investigations. The media has barely touched this, Piers. There's been a lot of coverage of Prince Andrew and Thiel and Elon Musk and Reid Hoffman and all sorts of people.
29:23Mehdi Hasan:Katie Couric. There hasn't actually been that much coverage of Donald Trump's own relationship with Epstein as much as there should have been. If this was any other president or politician, this would be a huge scandal. And I agree with you on the kind of... We haven't got evidence of criminality, but I just want to show, this is in the Epstein files, right? This is page 21. This is a 21-page FBI PowerPoint presentation. This is the page they have from last summer called Prominent Names. Donald Trump's at the top with two allegations in there. Now, I'm not saying those are proven allegations, but the idea that we as a media, that the American public's not even familiar with those allegations, I think we need to be talking much more about what a huge scandal this is and how many lies have been told by the people in power, not just Donald Trump.
29:58Mehdi Hasan:And I know Bill Clinton is going to have his day to talk about what were his relationships with Epstein as well. Piers, I'll say this, one last point. I no longer can just laugh at people who come up with conspiracy theories anymore. I can't. I used to be very dismissive of conspiracy theories. No, I agree. I said this. We have seen the lies in the cover-up.
30:16Piers Morgan:Do you know what? I said the other day, I would literally now be prepared to believe any conspiracy theory relating to the Epstein scandal because so much of it is actually coming true. But who the hell knows, right? I mean, I just think the idea... Although you're quick to defend your pal Donald Trump,
30:33Mehdi Hasan:who was close to him.
30:35Piers Morgan:No, no. No, I'm only quick to defend him about one part of this, which is there's a lot of stuff in those files that is clearly fantastical, malicious, and was investigated and immediately ruled out. But there's a lot of stuff redacted, Piers. No, no, I agree, I agree, but there's no... How do we know? How do we know the full extent of this?
30:53Mehdi Hasan:Well, it's a perfectly valid point. Agreed, but there hasn't been a full investigation. But there hasn't been a full investigation. I agree with that. You would agree with that, Piers. And I'm with you. Kash Patel and Pan Bondi shutting it down. Why is a direct to the FBI and the Attorney General shutting down?
31:08Piers Morgan:Mehdi, you're preaching to the choir. You're saying the same thing. I love it when we agree.
31:12Mehdi Hasan:I love it when we agree, Piers.
31:14Piers Morgan:I always feel a bit disconcerted when we agree. Let's talk about something else. It's interesting because let's assume a scenario here which plays out. I said on my show on Monday, we were talking about the polling for Trump and the midterms coming up pretty soon now, right? We're nearly in March, you've got midterms in November. It is highly likely, the way things are looking, that the Republicans will get a big beating in the midterms unless something extraordinary happens, which it might. But if they do and they lose control of the House, then any president in that position pretty much becomes a lame duck president.
31:53Piers Morgan:And if that happens, it's a free-for-all for what happens next, both amongst his own party and, of course, the Democrats. The Democrats don't really have yet, to me, anyone clearly coming through in the way that Bill Clinton did or Barack Obama did, which is a massive problem for the party. One of their leading lights is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. And I watched this clip of her. She went down to the Munich conference, I think, to sort of show her global, you know, aspirations and how smart she was and so on, and ended up getting pretty well ridiculed for a few things, but one of which was her explanation when she was asked by a friend of mine, actually, would and should the US commit troops to defend Taiwan if China were to move?
32:40Piers Morgan:And she said this.
32:42Randy Fine:Would and should the US actually commit US troops to defend Taiwan if China were to move? You know, I think that this is such a, you know, I think that this is a, this is of course a very longstanding policy of the United States. And I think what we are hoping for is that we want to make sure that we never get to that point. and we want to make sure that we are moving in all of our economic research and our global positions to avoid any such confrontation and for that question to even arise.
33:30Piers Morgan:Now, if Donald Trump had come out with that, you'd have gone, what the fuck is he talking about? That is a load of gibberish word salad nonsense. So in the cause of intellectual honesty, Mediasan, Would you say that what we just heard was a load of gibberish word salad nonsense?
33:52Mehdi Hasan:No, I think what we heard was not her finest hour in terms of articulating an answer on a very complicated subject. I was awkward watching that. It's obviously not great to um and ah for 20 seconds. I wrote a book about public speaking. You know that I've addressed these issues in people who do public speaking. It wasn't a great moment for her, but the idea that that summed up her presence at Munich is actually what I would question the premise of your entire discussion. You just played a clip from an account. I noticed where you played it from. It's a well-known right-wing MAGA Twitter account.
34:19Mehdi Hasan:The right of very good peers, aided and abetted sometimes by your good self, in pushing narratives about democratic politicians to brand them. Why does it matter where it came from? In 2000, they did it to... It does, because, for example, she gave fantastic answers on inequality, on Gaza, on authoritarianism. She spoke to a packed crowd in Berlin the next day. She met with the SPD. She met with the Far-Lafs. No-one mentions any of that. Instead, everyone in the US media is talking about this because the right wants you to talk about this. That's my first point, that this is a very manufactured narrative.
34:50Mehdi Hasan:And number two, it's not at all equivalent to Trump, Piers. Trump could never say even half of what she said about Taiwan. Her answer, actually, at the end, which is we shouldn't get to that point, is actually the right answer. When Trump... I checked, because I knew you were going to ask me about this. I checked before I came on air. Trump was asked about Taiwan a few months ago, and he couldn't answer the question. He said, it's a secret. I can't tell you what my position is. Well, that's much better. In fact, this week, Piers, forget rhetoric. Do you know what Trump said about Taiwan? He told reporters on Monday that he's checking with the Chinese president before he sells arms to Taiwan.
35:17Mehdi Hasan:That goes against a 42-year longstanding U.S. policy on Taiwan that Ronald Reagan set up. Not me, Ronald Reagan set up. So you can go on about AOC's 22nd umming and ahhing, which wasn't great for AOC, I admit. Or we can talk about the fact that Donald Trump has a very bad policy on Taiwan that goes against U.S. traditional national security policy. And we can talk about that Donald Trump's sentences make AOC look like the most eloquent woman in history. What are you talking about? Have you heard Donald Trump rant about shark attacks? About the size of Arnold Palmer's penis? About toilet flushing?
35:48Mehdi Hasan:AOC's never said anything like that. Donald Trump, hold on, I haven't finished. Donald Trump went to Davos, Piers. Did you play the clip? Did you play the clip, in the interest of fairness and intellectual honesty, to quote you, did you play the clip of Donald Trump in Davos calling Greenland Iceland again and again and again? He went to Davos and embarrassed himself, calling it Iceland. And by the way, worse than calling it Iceland, he wants to invade Greenland. No Democrat has ever suggested anything as mad as going to war with Denmark as Donald Trump. So please don't come here and talk about gibberish and intellectual honesty.
36:16Mehdi Hasan:Your pal is the most deranged person to ever get close to any top office anywhere in the West.
36:22Piers Morgan:Do you know what? I haven't heard such a strident piece of apologia since comical Ali in the Iraq war when he was trying to explain why the Americans... Everything I said was true and you can't dispute a word of it.
36:34Mehdi Hasan:Did you play Donald Trump's clip at Davos? Did you play on this show... The Americans are not... Piers, on this show... Let me answer. Let me answer. Let me answer. Medi. Saying Greenland is Iceland. Medi. Yes or no?
36:47Piers Morgan:Medi. Yes. Multiple times. And more than that, I interviewed the Prime Minister. Wait a minute. Yes. And more than that, I interviewed the Prime Minister of Greenland as well. Did you? So? So?
37:03Mehdi Hasan:What's that got to do with anything? What's the matter with you? You have run cover for Donald Trump. Piers, do you agree? Do you agree that Donald Trump is mad, nuts, deranged? and mentally unfit for office. Do you agree with that?
37:16Mehdi Hasan:Do you agree with that or not? Why do you do this? Why don't you just... Why don't you just say, Meddy? It's a simple question, Piers. People are watching. Do you agree that Donald Trump is mad, deranged, nuts... Meddy, it's not your show... ..and unfit for office? Because those are your words, Piers. Those are your words. When I come on your show... Those are your words. You call Donald Trump... You call Donald Trump... Meddy, Meddy,
37:35Piers Morgan:mad, and nuts. I know. And occasionally I think he is those things. And as you know, I've said it when I think he is. And when I think he deserves praise, I give him praise. My point is, though, that you're... But overall, you accept he's not true. ..blinking about AOC. No, I think sometimes he's perfectly normal and lucid. Sometimes he does nutty things.
37:58Mehdi Hasan:Most of the time. Come on, Piers. This is a man who rants about shark attacks, who talked about Arnold Palmer's penis at a rally, who did an impression of someone doing oral sex on a microphone at a rally. There's going to be no president like this. I hate George W Bush, but I would put George Bush 100 times above Donald Trump in terms of intellectual and mental fitness for office. You cannot question any Democrats' intellectual fitness for office when you have supported this man, the most deranged man, your words, deranged, mad, nuts man, in office. Just to be clear, Mehdi. This is a man who couldn't find Taiwan on a map with his life dependent on it.
38:31Piers Morgan:Mehdi, Mehdi, Mehdi, here's the problem. I'm afraid... Listen, you know I like you, I respect you very much. You've built an amazing business with Zetaya. Congratulations. But one of the reasons Donald Trump got re-elected is that you guys have got literally Trump derangement syndrome. It plays into his hands. I prefer to be more even-handed with him. I prefer to praise him when he deserves it, and I prefer to whack him when he doesn't. When you're so blindly enraged by everything, including silly jokes, he says, you're so deranged about it, actually, in the end, you managed to achieve the unthinkable.
39:07Piers Morgan:You managed to help get Trump re-elected. Hold on, hold on, hold on. He got re-elected with a bigger majority.
39:13Mehdi Hasan:So, do I get to speak? So, hold on. Let's just deal with a couple of things. The reason he got re-elected, I would argue, is the media gave him a pass. People like you, I came on your show on the eve of his election and you were telling me all sorts of things. Oh, don't call him a Nazi, don't call him a fascist. Meanwhile, we have masked thugs. He's not a Nazi. He's not a Nazi. Pulling American citizens off the street. He's not a Nazi. He's not a Nazi. Shooting them in cold blood. He's not a Nazi. But I was right about his fascism. You were wrong about his fascism. I was right that he would try and stay in office in 2021.
39:38Mehdi Hasan:You were wrong about that. His people are shooting Americans. He didn't stay in office in 2021. Everything that I said would happen in a second term. He didn't stay in office. He tried to, Piers, and you said he was nuts for that.
39:46Piers Morgan:He's not a Nazi, and he's not a fascist.
39:49Mehdi Hasan:Oh, my God. Piers, you, in January 2021, accused him of trying to stay in office. You said he sent an armed mob to the Capitol. You said he should be removed from office, never be president again. You change your tune once he got back to the presidency. I get that. That's fine. No? I've been right about everything I've said about Trump. And as for being Trump derangement syndrome, it's the very opposite. Even I didn't think he'd be trying to start a war with Denmark. Even I didn't think he'd be shooting Americans in the street 14 months into his presidency. Even I didn't think he'd be this corrupt on this level so openly.
40:19Mehdi Hasan:So, in fact, he's been much worse than those of us who allegedly have TDSs. You have TDS, Piers. You have Trump denial syndrome. When I say to you, is Trump racist, you say, no, he's not racist, even though he calls Somalis low IQ, Piers. Do you agree that Somali people are low IQ? Is that not the most racist thing American people have ever said?
40:34Piers Morgan:Just to explain, Mehdi, just to explain. Look, you're dodging me. This is not your show. Do you think Somali's a low IQ, Peter? This is not your show, Mehdi. Do you think Somali's a low IQ? You don't get to interview me for half an hour. It's not your show. I think people are worried about your silence. When I come on your show, when I... I haven't been silent about any of these things. You should watch my show more.
40:54Mehdi Hasan:Trump calls Somali low IQ. Is that not a Nazi thing to say? Is that... OK, I'm not asking your question. It's not a Nazi thing to say, no. I think... It's not a Nazi thing to say. It is white supremacist rhetoric. It's not. And actually calling... The problem is...
41:08Piers Morgan:It's amazing that you're defending... OK, Manny, let's not talk at the same time. No, here's what I'm defending. When people like you on the left keep calling Trump a Nazi or comparing him to Adolf Hitler, that is exactly what I'm talking about, about Trump derangement syndrome. It is so ridiculous, so offensive, so inaccurate. Adolf Hitler and the Nazis murdered 12 million people, including 6 million Jews in a Holocaust. There is zero comparison to be made.
41:40Mehdi Hasan:Then why are they pumping out Nazi propaganda from the DHS Twitter account? Why are they using literal Nazi themes and quoting Nazi books? Do you know that they're doing that? Have you checked that out? Go check it out. I wrote about it. Why are they trying to... Has he murdered 12 million people? A man who says, why is... That's not the definition of a Nazi. That means Nick Griffin's not a Nazi because he didn't murder. You know perfectly well you don't have to be Hitler to have Nazi views. These are Nazi views. When you put someone in front of Congress right now, they're trying to confirm someone to the State Department, Piers, who says that we need to address the Jewish question, that Jews are victims, that white people are being erased.
42:12Mehdi Hasan:Are those not Nazi views? Are those not far-right views? Are those not views you want to condemn? This is your friend. You say, Donald Trump is my friend. I'm asking you, Donald Trump, your friend, is friends with Epstein. Donald Trump, your friend, says Somali's a low IQ. I'd like you to condemn that.
42:25Piers Morgan:Mehdi, Mehdi, I don't have to condemn it because I did condemn it when he said it. My team have just sent me the monologue the day after he said it about the Somalis. Do you want to hear what I said the next day? Sure. Did you call him a racist? But just as it's absurd and abhorrent to argue that every British Muslim man is a rapist, It's clearly wrong to say that every one of the 116 ,000 Somalis in the US are thieves or low IQ. That's why many are unhappy with some of the rhetoric pouring from the White House. I did criticize. I don't hear the word racist there, Pierce.
43:04Mehdi Hasan:Do you not think it's racist to call all black? No, no, but you didn't call it racist. Of course you criticized it. Did you call it racist? You will refuse to use the R word, I noticed.
43:11Piers Morgan:I think absurd and abhorrent says it all, Mehdi. You just didn't know I said it, did you?
43:16Mehdi Hasan:No, I don't think it does. I don't think it does. I think if you call all Somalis garbage and low IQ, I think that is white supremacist. I think that is racist. If you post a picture of the Obamas as apes, I think that's racist.
43:29Piers Morgan:OK. You're entitled to think that. Who do you think is going to be the Democrat nominee? You're entitled to defend Trump, your pal. No, I met Manny.
43:36Mehdi Hasan:Who do you think is going to be some serious questions? I don't do predictions. I don't do predictions anymore, Trump. In 2016, I said there wouldn't be Brexit. Who in the Democratic ranks is impressive.
43:47Piers Morgan:you. Who in the Democratic ranks is impressing you? Yes.
43:52Mehdi Hasan:So Gavin Newsom impresses me because he's been very good at attacking Trump. I'm not impressed with all his policy positions, but I think he's been very strong in taking the fight to Donald Trump, which is what Democrats want from a leader. Democrats are fed up of having a spineless party. And I think the next nominee is not going to be about left or right. It's going to be who's a fighter and who's not a fighter. I think Newsom has done very well. I think AOC is insanely popular with the Democratic Party. She's won over everyone across the Democratic political spectrum. centre-left, far-left, everyone.
44:18Mehdi Hasan:I think she will be formidable. I think Ro Khanna is a progressive voice who's done so much good work on the Epstein files, has won a lot of goodwill across the political spectrum. I think there's going to be a lot of strong candidates. The question is going to be, you know, who are they going to go up against?
44:35Piers Morgan:Yeah, I think that's a really interesting question. It won't be Donald Trump, I can tell you that. It might be somebody else called Trump.
44:42Mehdi Hasan:Well, we don't know that for sure.
44:43Piers Morgan:Who might fancy a run. We don't know that for sure. Honestly, I'm not sure I ruled out the idea that Donald Trump tries to stay on past 28. Of course. But my, you know, who I think is the most impressive operator of his whole team is actually Rubio.
45:01Mehdi Hasan:Yeah, I mean, Rubio rebranded himself very well. This is a man who once used to call Donald Trump a con man, mocked Donald Trump's penis. Now he's a loyalist going to Munich to push the MAGA or what I call the mega message. now. He went to Munich and said, let's make empire great again. Let's bring back empire. He was praising the empires of the past and saying the Europeans need to get on board with that. He then went to Hungary and endorsed Viktor Orban, a man who he used to criticise. So Rubio's done a complete 180 like J.D. Vance. We'll see both of them are kind of fake when it comes to their MAGA credentials.
45:31Mehdi Hasan:It'll be interesting to see if it is Rubio versus Vance, who the MAGA base believes is more of a believer, because neither of them were believers until about two minutes ago.
45:40Piers Morgan:The only reason I would like to see Donald Trump try and run again is purely to see your face. No other reason.
45:50Mehdi Hasan:I mean, my face would say, see, Piers, I was right again and you were wrong again.
45:55Piers Morgan:Have you ever been wrong about anything, Mehdi?
45:59Mehdi Hasan:Yeah, I was wrong when I said Donald Trump wouldn't win in 2016 and he won.
46:05Piers Morgan:Mehdi, I love arguing with you. Always good having you on our stand, so thank you very much.
46:10Mehdi Hasan:Thanks, Piers.
46:12Piers Morgan:Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent Uncensored Media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.
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From the publisher
Congressman Randy Fine incited rage online this week when he posted to X indicating that he’d choose dogs over Muslims. Gavin Newsom called him a “racist slob” and Megyn Kelly a pathetic, sweaty bigot. He joins Piers Morgan to discuss what he meant by the comments and whether he stands by then.
Then, editor in chief of Zeteo News Mehdi Hasan joins Piers to give his reaction to Randy Fine’s interview before discussing the latest developments in the Epstein scandal, AOC’s Taiwan word salad, the midterms and why for him TDS means Trump DENIAL Syndrome!
Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by:
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