"Don't Recognise My OWN Country!" MAGA Britain Debate + Graham Lineham Interview

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23:30Piers Morgan:That's tnusa.com slash peers for expert help on your tax. The post that got you into trouble, the main one was, if a trans-identified male is in a female-only space, he's committing a violent, abusive act. Make a scene, call the cops, and if all else fails, punch him in the balls. Now, I saw that as comedy, albeit quite crude comedy, and I would imagine some people genuinely were probably quite offended by it, but I think that comedy is often offensive, and actually in a world that has a democratic society like the UK, free speech dictates that you can be offensive, right? People may not like it.

24:11Piers Morgan:They might be offended. But that doesn't mean you're not entitled to say this. You can be held accountable for it, but not arrested for it. Some people said, look, obviously a clear inducement to violence against trans people by saying punch him in the balls. What's your response specific to that post? I mean it's so funny that they're angry about me saying punch them in the balls when they're pretending they're women you know it's like how could you punch a woman in the balls so it's like it's ridiculous to me that they've taken on this fight and I'm kind of glad they have because the other thing about that tweet is that it's basic safeguarding advice for women you know one of the one of the powers that women have when a man comes into a female only space is to make a scene and And now it's been turned around so much that if a woman makes a scene, she is the one who's going to get arrested.

25:03You know, women feel completely unprotected by the police in the UK at the moment. And they are working for, in my case, a small gang of men who are behind so many of these complaints. There was someone recently, an ex-police woman, I'm sure you saw that story. That's the same guy who's targeting me. They said, when I came to the UK for my trial and I was arrested, it was the same guy who had me arrested that's behind my trial. So it's like, you know, people have been talking about, you know, police powers and all that sort of stuff. That's not the point. The point is the police are working for criminals.

25:39The police are doing the bidding of these criminals. And it's because this debate is so confusing that they're able to run rings around them.

25:48Piers Morgan:You know, what was interesting to me, and I said this to you, I texted you to say this, that I felt like the mood around you changed quite dramatically after your arrest, that it was coming at a time when I think the whole woke worm, if you like, has turned and people have got far less accepting of being pressurised into thinking about these issues in a very narrow way, which if they deviate, you get cancelled. And there was a sort of groundswell of real, proper, visceral support for you, led by the media, many of whom have been very censorious of you before, but also I imagine that manifested itself on the streets with the public.

26:23Piers Morgan:How have you found the reaction on the streets? Well, I've never been stopped so much. I've never been thanked so much. I've been getting thumbs up and the horn beeps from cabbies. It's been lovely. And in fact, you know, after years of wanting to get out of the UK and get away from the people who are harassing me, I suddenly felt a bit melancholy about leaving. But, yeah, it's been lovely. It's been a total turnaround. And what's been great as well is seeing people start to piece together what I've been saying for years. You know, that it's certainly not... And I want to really make it clear, when I talk about trans activists, I'm really talking about the most vicious and active trans activists.

27:10You know, I'm sure there's a lot of people who believe in trans rights who are incredibly decent people who think they're doing the right thing. And all we ever wanted to do was show them it's a lot more complicated. It's a lot simpler and more complicated than you think. You know, a lot of these men who want to get into women's spaces are not just men, but the worst men in the world. And they need to be stopped. And, you know, you saw Isla Bryson. You saw the Scottish guy who kidnapped a little girl and tortured her and raped her for three days, you know, he was only able to do so because she trusted him because he was dressed as a woman, you know?

27:48This has to be stopped. It has to be stopped. And we have to make it unfashionable for this misogyny to continue. At the moment, the Irish singer Roisin Murphy is getting it in the neck, you know, because of this. She didn't say anything. She wasn't, like me, a bull in a china shop. She was very polite. She was worried about children in gender clinics. and they're trying to destroy her career, you know? So there's no volume low enough that you can speak about this issue without them trying to come at me, you know? Where are you...

28:20Piers Morgan:Where are you with your case over the arrest at Heathrow? Where is that going? Oh, that's... That's hilarious, Piers. The police, first of all, they gave me a bail condition that I wasn't allowed to go on Twitter. Then they changed it to I wasn't allowed to contact the victims. And if you look at those three tweets, there's no victim. No one's mentioned. So they somehow think that I'm going to be able to figure out who made the complaint. But actually, the truth is, I did figure out who made the complaint. It's the same guy who brought the police against... Oh, actually, I can't talk about that.

28:59I'd better stop.

29:00Piers Morgan:Yeah, but are you expecting to be charged with any crime? on this new one? I don't think so. I mean, even I think even they know it's the biggest misstep they've ever made. And, you know, if they continue with it, I'll just do my best to expose the police for working with these guys for the last eight years. You know, they could have stopped them at any point. One of them is a convicted fraudster who sexually assaulted a 14 year old boy. He was at my trial, you know, like this is, you know, the more light I can pour on this, the better. And if they continue with this, I'll just continue to do so.

29:36Piers Morgan:President Trump is coming to the UK next week. Would you like him to take up your case, maybe with the Prime Minister, with the King? Perhaps he's got the state dinner coming? I mean... I hope he does, because, like, I want to... I want to live in America, hopefully. I don't really feel... I definitely don't want to work with anyone in television in the UK again, because none of them even... Someone just phoned me up to see how I was. So, yeah, I'm hoping so. And I do want to, like someone said to me the other day, are you worried you'll be used by the Trump administration, you know, to further their ends?

30:18And my answer to that is use away. Use away. I really want to just destroy this movement. I want to reveal what the police are doing in its benefit or whatever. and anything that they can do to help would be really appreciated.

30:37Piers Morgan:Do you have any qualms about the fact you're getting so much support in America from the kind of MAGA crowd, the sort of more right-wing crowd? Well, it's very funny. When I first... When I heard that Trump had won, I went into a sort of depression. And then the next time he won, I was delighted because, you know, whatever his flaws and faults are, at least he knows what a woman is. And I think knowing what a woman is is basic. We've had politicians like Lisa Nandy in the UK saying that sex offenders should be let in women's prisons. You know, anything, anything is better than people who believe that men are women.

31:19So, yeah, I don't mind at all. And, in fact, a lot of the... What it has done over the last few years, Piers, is it's made me open to a far greater range of political opinions. I see now that the left-wing press didn't just lie to us about trans, it lied to us about a whole host of issues. And I'm hoping that, you know, I can kind of reveal all that simply by the attention being on me, you know?

31:48Piers Morgan:How are you managing to be a dad, given you're now living in America? you well my kids are now college age they're they're they've moved out and uh and we still stay in touch on zoom uh they're coming over to visit me at the new year um i come back often enough that i probably see them as much as i would have anyway if i did what do they make it what's happened to you well they were so funny this week on the zoom they're you know they're just, like, you know, they've been through so much, you know, as well, you know, including the sex offender I spoke about releasing our home address online, that, you know, they're just kind of stunned by it all, but amused, I think, that their father is a jailbird now, you know.

32:35Piers Morgan:Graham, final question. Do you have any regrets about the last eight years? oh uh only as i say that i didn't line up a second form of income if i'd done that i might have been able to uh you know help my wife from not being so frightened at the loss of uh jobs and so on um but the only regret i have really is trusting a lot of people who i thought were friends and who in the end turned out to be you know the very very quintessence of of fair weather friends. As soon as this all started happening to me, they just never phoned again, you know? So I wish I'd had better friends. Graham Linojum, great to have you on our sensor.

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34:48Piers Morgan:Outrage over the summer's Raise the Colours campaign and the arrest by armed police and comedian Graham Linehan have only advanced a dark vision of the UK promoted by star podcasters Tucker Carlson, Elon Musk, and even the US Vice President, J.D. Vance. Many Brits do agree with at least some of the tone of this coverage. However, others believe it's based on cynical falsehoods, racist motives, and the opportunism of using Britain to warn Americans not to drop their MAGA guard. So, who is right? Well, let's debate this. Talk show host and commentator Owen Schroer claims he too was prosecuted for speech during the January 6th riots.

35:21Piers Morgan:Lawyer and uncensored contributor Paul Aron Adrian. and concepted commentator, Isabel Oakeshott, and the social media superstar, Big John Bosch Fisher, also known as the Bosch Father. Welcome to all of you, and particularly to you, John. Been a fan of yours for a long time, and your work on social media. Thank you, Piers. At least I know I've got one fan. It's a pleasure to be here. I didn't think I'd be here this afternoon, so thank you very much for having me on. Well, it's great to see you, and the reason we wanted you on was I watched your interview with the BBC the other night, and you hit, I think, just a great tone, which may have been a bit different to the tone some people might have expected from you, from your social media.

36:02Piers Morgan:They might have thought you kind of... I would say Little England, but you're not little, obviously. You know what I mean, that you would meet that kind of stereotype. And actually, you hit a far more, I felt, far more tolerant tone than what you said, and it was an important thing that you said. What is your view, John? For those of you who may not have seen that clip, but what is your view of where we are as a country right now? I think we're in troubled times, if I'm being truthful, Piers, and sad times as well, because I'd rather see communities come together than being driven apart in which they are.

36:33And you're right, we're seeing a lot of falsehoods online. People don't know what to believe and a lot of frustrations. And when people are frustrated, they do things that they wouldn't normally do. I would like to see people come together a bit more because we still are a great country and a great people, wherever we come from, wherever our backgrounds. So, yeah, just a bit sad at the moment. Sad times.

36:55Piers Morgan:I talked to Tucker Carlson earlier this week, and he was saying that Britain is now, to him, it's a sad place, it's a disgusting place, it's a suicidal place, making out there's a kind of apocalypse. I don't have to put it right, I don't feel any of those things. I'm very proud of my country, proud to live here. But there's no doubt, John, that there is a feeling in the air that things just aren't right, and that the government and successive governments haven't got a handle on some of the core problems, whether it's the number of people coming in illegally on the small boats that Keir Starmer said he would smash the gangs, and clearly hasn't.

37:32Piers Morgan:He's just smashed new records of people coming in that way. And so on, whether it's people being arrested for jokes on social media, which some people may find distasteful, but actually we're a democratic society, supposedly a grown-up one. What are armed police doing sweeping people up at airports for jokes on social media? There's a lot going on that just, I think, makes people think, what are we becoming? There is a lot going on, but I think it's heightened by social media. We're in an age now where anything happens and it's portrayed and highlighted over and over again. And there are certainly things we can improve on.

38:07And you're right, Piers, I think it's down to the governments, and it has been successive governments that have let our people down. And I'm not sure at the moment any political party is there to fix it at the moment. But I'm hopeful. We're a great country. We're a great people. We've got a lot of clever people here. So I'm hoping that people can use a lot of common sense, find a common ground and start to come together.

38:28Piers Morgan:Well said. Let me bring in Owen Shroyer. You're an ultra MAGA commentator. You're not a fan of the way you believe the UK is going. Explain why. Well, I don't know how many people would consider me ultra MAGA now. And, Piers, normally I wouldn't concern myself with the affairs of the U.K. since we broke free of your authoritarians in 1776. But it does seem what happens there ends up happening here as well. And I know you were quite shocked going through some of your prep for this segment. You said, was Owen Schroer prosecuted or persecuted for free speech? No, I was prosecuted. I was put in prison for my speech.

39:08And you can read the court documents to see for yourself. So I'm concerned that when I see people in the UK going to prisons for speech and then it comes to my country, well, all of a sudden, maybe I need to be concerned about what's going on in the UK. But as far as your question is concerned, I have to agree with some of your opening commentary to America from an outsider's perspective. Like you mentioned, Tucker Carlson, it does seem that Britain has fallen. It does seem that England and the UK have fallen. when I think about the concept of visiting Europe or touring Europe, I feel like what is there left to see?

39:41I mean, there might be some images, there might be some buildings and some history, but is it really the same Europe? Is it really the same culture? Is it really the same people even? I think it's a fair question to ask, and many people don't even feel safe traveling to Europe anymore. So, of course, they're not going to. I see the same thing happening in my country now. I think it is sad from a global perspective to think that all these different cultures around the world are all slowly morphing into the exact same thing, and it feels like this is the concept of globalism coming to its conclusion.

40:15No unique culture, no unique people, no unique place to go visit, and yet that's what it appears is happening. And then how dare you stand up and say something about it? How dare you stand up and have an issue with it? Because then the name calling begins and the character assassination begins. I think one case that is obviously widely covered is the Tommy Robinson case. Here's a man who just tries to stand up for what he believes in and the issues he sees going on in his country. And what does he have to endure? Constant attacks, constant imprisonment, constantly just fighting for his freedom.

40:47So I think that this is the righteous indignation that many Europeans are feeling right now. And they just look to their leadership. They look to their government and they don't see it there. They don't see them standing with them. And so they're looking for other alternatives, peers. And what does that mean?

41:02Piers Morgan:Well, a few things to unpack there. I will with my other guests, but just on a couple of points on Tommy Robinson, who is real name Stephen Laxley. But I have repeatedly invited him to come on Uncensored and we could have a proper conversation about it. He has repeatedly bottled it. I now call him bottle job on social media because he just won't do it. He does everybody else, but he won't do me. I think one of the reasons is that there is a perception in America that poor little Tommy has only been telling the truth about the UK and that's why he's been in prison recently. Well, poor little Tommy was actually sued by a young Syrian refugee boy who sued him for lying about him.

41:42Piers Morgan:Robertson was found to have lied by court, had to pay him£100 ,000. Then he went and repeated all the lies, breaching a court order about this Syrian boy, and that's why he was found in contempt of court, which he did completely deliberately, and he was put in prison. That had nothing to do, for example, with the grooming gang scandal or anything else, where he's made some perfectly valid points. But he's managed to persuade a lot of Americans that he's the kind of pie piper of free speech and that every time he tells the truth, he gets put in prison. Not quite as straightforward as that. So I think on that point, I think I wanted to put that on the record.

42:18Piers Morgan:Secondly, in relation to you and your situation, you were arrested during the January the 6th riots. You were down there at the Capitol. Why do you think it was shaking your head? Is that not true? No, I was not arrested during the January 6th event. I was arrested months afterwards in August of 2021. No problem, Piers, just correcting the record. If you could just tell me exactly what was your role on January the 6th, just to clear that up. Sure. So I'll make this as quickly as possible out of respect for your guests. I was there covering the event as a journalist. I was there with my team at Infowars and Alex Jones.

42:55You may or may not remember a segment you had with Alex. I remember him very well. It may still be viral to this day. So I was there covering it as a journalist. There's been a lot of false reporting out there, like there was a standing agreement I had with the government that I wasn't allowed to go in D.C. or I wasn't allowed to be on Capitol grounds. These are false reports. They were false reports that I didn't complete a community service from a prior speech charge against me. I did. All of these things were false. I did not violate any probation. I did not break any laws that day, except they claim a lesser misdemeanor trespassing charge on government property, which as far as people are concerned, in the Federal Bureau of Prison system, I was the first non-felon to ever serve time in a federal prison.

43:38Let me repeat that. A non-felon, me, for a lesser trespassing misdemeanor spent months in a federal prison for a speech crime. And they can claim it wasn't about speech, but it was. If you look at the government documents, all the incidents that they used to throw me in prison were things that I said. So, yes, I was in Washington, D.C. on January 6th. I was covering the event. I never touched a police officer. I never went inside the Capitol building. These are all false claims. And so I'm not surprised that you might be confused in reporting this stuff because of all the false reports that have been out there.

44:13So I'm glad you're giving me a chance to clear the record right now.

44:16Piers Morgan:You have cleared that up. Let me bring in Paula. The country's collapsing. It's sad. It's disgusting. It's suicidal. We're all done for. Your thoughts? I don't recognise any of that. And it's really disappointing to hear somebody who purports to be educated to be repeating such things, to be saying such things, to be spouting them across social media, which is very much the problem. And Piers, I'm so glad, actually, that you've invited me on today because you know that we debate many topics about this great nation, but we never really get an opportunity to say the wonderful, marvellous things about this country, and particularly at a time where we are seen on social media, where we are hearing so much negativity that is, of course, baseless.

45:01And what's it fuelled by? It's fuelled by anger. It's fuelled by aggression. It's fuelled by frustration. As if those things propel it onto planet fact, when, of course, it doesn't. It doesn't even allow it to orbit planet fact. It's so important that we hear all voices. And, of course, we don't get everything right, but, you know, this is a great nation.

45:22Piers Morgan:How do you feel when people are being arrested for jokes? So what I feel is that if you want us to debate policing, if you want us to debate laws and their relevance... No, it's free speech is what I want to debate. ..then let's do that. No, no, I'm debating the principle... Hang on, hang on, Paul. Hang on, Paul. ..a great country which is based on... Yeah, but Paul, but Paul... ..and gave birth to the rule of law. Yes, but Paul, this is the problem, is that one of the reasons I don't recognise my own country, even though I love living here and am very proud to be British, one of the problems I have is I cannot believe my eyes when I hear that five armed policemen are arresting comedians at airports for jokes posted on social media.

46:04Piers Morgan:It's ridiculous. Do you think it's ridiculous? They were armed because police officers at airports... There are lots of unarmed policemen at airports. Completely fatuous argument. There are many unarmed policemen at the airport too. Completely fatuous argument. Do you agree with the principle of people being arrested by armed police for jokes? I agree with the principle. that if you are deemed to have broken the law, then the police should arrest you. What law did he break? What law did he break with those jokes? I wasn't the arresting officer. You've read the jokes. I wasn't the arresting officer.

46:38You've read the jokes, Paula. I wasn't the arresting officer. You've read the jokes. If you're asking me whether I agree that he should be arrested or not, if you're asking me whether I agree that he should be investigated, then I have to say I am... I'm in difficulty. And I would be... So you don't agree? I'm in difficulty. Bloody hell. I would be...

46:55Piers Morgan:It's too woke even for you. It's nothing to do with being woke, Piers, and you understand what the definition of woke is. I used to. It's not about this being woke, Piers, which is just... Actually, it kind of is, actually. This is about whether the police acted appropriately. And we know what the stats are in relation to the police acting inappropriately when, for example, when we talk about black males and stop and search. Now you're playing what about, Tari? We know about those statistics. That's not part of this debate. Of course we accept that at least they always get it right. Paula, Paula, I think that was your long convoluted way of saying you agree with me, which is great.

47:32Piers Morgan:Before we go to Isabel, I just want to ask you about the other thing that is inflaming tensions in the UK, because as somebody you used to happily identify as Liberal, again, I cannot accept what is happening with these small boats. It is completely ridiculous that we have record numbers of people just careering over here, over the channel, and coming into this country illegally, and then successive governments putting them in fancy hotels and giving them all the things that many people living in Britain legally are incapable of enjoying. That is just completely wrong and it's putting huge pressure on our infrastructure, huge pressure on our services.

48:10Piers Morgan:The NHS is falling apart. Both my parents have had serious things. One had a heart attack, one broke six ribs. Both went to the same A &E in an 18-month period and both had to sit or lie on a trolley in a corridor for over eight hours with loads of other people lying on corridors. This is Britain in 2025. It is outrageous. And yet they have to pick up the paper, like everybody else, and see that if you come over illegally on a boat, you get put in a nice hotel. This is completely wrong. Do you agree it's completely wrong? No. I barely agree with anything that you've just said. Which part? And there was so much, Piers.

48:51Give me one part you don't agree with. I don't agree that there are people who are being put up in luxury hotels. Well, they are. Well, Piers, what happens... Well, they are. What happens is that successive...

49:03Piers Morgan:Porter, they literally are being put in luxury hotels. Piers, I appreciate that you're shouting at me, but you're... It's a fact! I appreciate you're shouting at me, but you're shouting at me because you know that ultimately I'm going to say something that you're going to have to agree with. Piers, what is happening is... They're not living in hotels. Peers, what is happening is that we have unregulated immigration. I accept that. We have unregulated... Where are they being put? We have unregulated immigration because successive governments have failed to provide for legal routes for people to claim asylum.

49:32I said that. Where are they being put? The only thing that they can do is to pay smugglers to get them across the tunnel... Where are they being put? ..where they can then legally claim asylum. Where are they being put? The only places that are available for them to be put is via companies who buy up hotels and then the companies place the refugees, the potential asylum seekers, in hotels. And who's paying for that? It is the companies... Who's paying for that? The Home Office is paying for that. So who's that? Who pays for the Home Office? And the companies are making millions from the government because of that.

50:04Paula, who pays for the Home Office? Absolute millions.

50:05Piers Morgan:So, Paula, don't keep talking. Where I can agree with you is that the system is broken in terms of what we do for asylum seekers. I feel like I'm going completely nuts because nothing you've said contradicts anything I said. They are being put into nice hotels at taxpayer expense. We pay for the Home Office. That is happening. They are there illegally. It is wrong and it is causing tension. And nothing you've said, you disagree with everything I said. You've actually agreed with all of it. Isabel, I want to bring Isabel in. Isabel, you, I know, are a proud patriot, but you have left the country and now live in Dubai.

50:39Piers Morgan:So, first of all... Absolutely. I'd forgotten how absolutely ridiculous Paula is, much as I love her. That was ludicrous. I mean, where do we begin with that? Yes, cards on the table. I think things are so bad in the UK that I have literally left. I have done something incredibly radical in my own mind because I love my country. I am British and it will always be my home. But I have taken my children out of the UK and I'm now educating them in the Middle East. where they get a traditional British education without any of the trans bollocks and woke ideology. So, you know, I'm very proud of that decision.

51:22It's a very proactive way of dealing with a situation that you can't immediately change. But I don't recognise everything that Tucker Carlson said. The one word he didn't use, actually, was angry. And I think Britain is a very angry place at the moment, and I think it is very divided. And I don't really want to live in a place that is so angry all the time. And it's angry, I'm afraid, because of people like Paula who are in complete denial, absolute bare-faced denial about the facts, which are exactly, as you said, that we are allowing thousands of people, sometimes thousands in a matter of days, undocumented people who have come through perfectly safe countries and they are coming across the channel for a luxury existence at taxpayer expense.

52:18And that is completely outrageous.

52:22Piers Morgan:And what is fuelling more anger is that some of them, a small percentage, but some of them, are then committing horrendous crimes, sex crimes, against people when they get here, right? And I'm sorry, again, that is bound to inflame a lot of anger and tension in communities when they know that these people have come in on these boats day after day after day in huge, increasing numbers, and they're being put up in nice hotels, and then they're committing crimes. It is a three-pronged, guaranteed way to enrage the average Brit who I think looks at this and goes, this is just not fair. Let me bring John back in, because you're...

53:00Piers Morgan:I think you seem a very decent guy to me, John. I've enjoyed your stuff on social media, never met you. But, you know, am I right about this? Is it these things that are upsetting people? When you talk to people in your community, what is the sense you're getting about what is fuelling a lot of the anger? Listen, I'm a normal English chap, married father of four, and you do talk to a lot of people, and there is a lot of anger about asylum seekers, and there's no hiding from the fact that we do have a problem. And it's our best to sort that problem out. and it seems to be whatever way you look at it, we can't sort that problem out.

53:37And people are angry over that.

53:40Piers Morgan:Because I had an argument, John, with Tucker Carlson, for example, about multiculturalism. I actually think that the UK and the US, I spend a lot of time in the US, I have a home in America and I flip between the two. I don't think there are two better examples of multicultural countries where they have been as tolerant and encouraging to multiculturalism as the US and UK. And I think that is still the case. And I don't worry about my culture being consumed and overtaken. But do you pick that up from people? Do you think people are genuinely concerned now that the way the country is going is changing so rapidly that the multiculturalism we've always enjoyed and become world-renowned for our tolerance and fairness and welcoming to people, is that beginning to get damaged now?

54:29I don't think people are worried about losing their Englishness. We're still English, we're still British. But I do think people are worried about losing some sort of identity, and that's the anger that's coming out on the streets. But I think the anger is more at the politicians in our country because no-one seems to be standing up for British people like the pensioners. You know, the first thing Keir Starmer did when he got out of power... Whacked the pensioners, yeah. ..was whack the pensioners. Then the farmers. And it's the pensioners that we should be protecting above everybody else in this country.

55:03Piers Morgan:Yes. But listen, I don't know what the answer is. A lot of cleverer people than me don't know what the answer is, but there's got to be some way of sorting it out, but sorting it out in a logical way, coming together and talking about it. Yes. Because we are a multicultural country, there's no denying that, and we have a lot of good things from other parts of the world that made our country better, and we don't want to stop that. But we also... You've got to look after British people as well. There's a lot of people struggling, a lot of veterans struggling, a lot of old-age benchers struggling.

55:33So we've got to find a way of helping other people as well.

55:36Piers Morgan:Yeah, I mean, Paula, you know, do you accept that sometimes you do sound like you're in total denial about some of these core issues, which people really do care about? You and I have debated the trans women in sport issue, for example, which, you know, just almost everybody I've ever talked to who's not got a sort of skin in the game agrees with me about that, that it was just completely unfair and wrong and shouldn't have been happening. If you come round, I've got a book called Woke is Dead coming out in a few weeks. I know. Because I genuinely feel the vast majority of people have just had enough of this stuff.

56:10Piers Morgan:But are you able to look at that like Malcolm Gladwell did, for example, this week, about that very issue and admit he was completely wrong? So, the issue with trans and trans women in sports is a very nuanced and complicated one. Not really, it's very simple. It's a very nuanced and complicated one. It's not complicated. And the issue around the science behind it is still being debated. It really boils down to whether you... I don't want to get into that right at this moment. It's not being debated. What I do want to do... Paula, it's not being debated. What I do want to do is to just respond to your question...

56:41You can't just move on. ..about whether I'm in bare denial. Paula, you can't say things which are clearly wrong.

56:46Piers Morgan:It has been settled now. Even the Prime Minister has worked out what a woman is. Well, in terms of the law. The Supreme Court has worked out what it is. Yes, absolutely. And actually, we all know that... Are you talking about professional sports? Are you talking about amateur sports? Are you talking about the fun run? It is obviously wrong. What I'm saying to you is... Hold it, let me speak. I don't want... We're not going to debate this now. Hold it. Because what I'm doing is... But if you're going to make a definitive statement that it's all still being debated, it's not. My point is, most people understand it is completely wrong and unfair and physically dangerous for people who were born biologically male to compete in women's sport.

57:22Piers Morgan:If they want to identify as trans, not a problem with me. If they want me to call them, you know, she, her, not a problem. But the moment it erodes women's rights, big problem. And that has been the problem with that issue from the start. And I think when a brain the size of Malcolm Gladwell's is big enough to go, I was completely wrong... Far bigger than mine. ..then a brain like yours, equally large, should be able to say, you know what, Piers, I was just wrong. So we're not talking about, for example, safe spaces for women, which you know I'm an absolute advocate for, and you know in my work I'm an absolute advocate for.

57:54Piers Morgan:Let's talk about trans athletes in sport. So we're not talking about that. Trans athletes in women's sport. And in terms of... Do you still think it's right or not? In terms of trans athletes... Is it right or not, Paula? In terms of trans athletes in sport, I have not got a brain as big as Malcolm Gladwell. What I understand that professional bodies have done is they have taken the... They ban them. is they've taken the scientific approach and have measured it on the basis of testosterone levels. They ban them. I don't have a problem with the professional bodies taking that scientific approach.

58:21I certainly don't have a problem with the decision that the Supreme Court made. That does not mean that I do not support the dolls. That does not mean I cannot also support safe spaces for women. It doesn't have to be binary.

58:33Piers Morgan:Let me tell you, you don't have safe spaces for women by allowing six-foot, five-inch bearded blokes into their locker rooms, do you? I can agree with you. that in that kind of circumstance, it may not be a safe place for women. But can we just talk about whether I am completely in denial about the topic in relation to the UK and whether we are in a hellhole? Well, I don't think we're in a hellhole, but I do think we've got big problems which successive governments have been abject in their failure to deal with it. And I can totally agree with you on that. Where I would then step further is to then say, why is it the fault of people who have just stepped foot in this country?

59:11Why is it the fault of the most vulnerable people? Who are these people? Why is it the fault of the most vulnerable people in society? That is where you and I are going to disagree. Because this isn't about being put up in a hotel.

59:23Piers Morgan:Haller, Haller. This is about successive governments failing the country. That's what this is about. When you say the most vulnerable people, you are aware... In the world, yes. Right, so you are aware that a year ago we discovered that a third of all the people who'd come in the year before into this country on small boats were young Albanian fit men from a country that is not a war-torn country. So they're not the most vulnerable people in the world. They are people on the make for a better life economically in our country. And when people like you, with all due respect, who bang this drum and say they're all vulnerable, needy people, they're not.

1:00:01Piers Morgan:And so it is... What you are talking about is an abuse of the process. It's a demonstrable lie. You are talking about an abusive process, which I would obviously... By 15 ,000 of them. I would obviously agree with you that we should not be permitting that. OK. We don't argue with where we find an abusive process, but we find that abusive process and we manage it. The problem comes when you say, leave all these poor, vulnerable people alone. What we don't do is we harm everyone. And actually we know a large number of them are young, economic male migrants who are not from war-torn countries. That is the problem.

1:00:31Piers Morgan:And I believe in an asylum system. If it is regulated properly and it works and it genuinely looks after those who are genuinely oppressed and come from war-torn countries. Isabel, final word to you about this. What hope is there for the UK? Give me some hope. And then I'm going to Owen for a final word. I'd have to get very party political. The hope is that there are elections in three or four years' time, by which time I do fear a great deal of damage will have been done. But the other bit of hope is that the country is in such a red-hot, boiling-mad mood that this appalling government may actually have to do something about some of it, at the very least the small boats.

1:01:13The free speech stuff really, really worries me. We've highlighted the case of a comedian, but there are cases every day of people who don't have platforms like that comedian. For example, a guy who said, we love bacon outside the site of a proposed mosque and found himself arrested for a racial-related crime. Well, it's got nothing to do with race, does it, Bacon? Absolutely ridiculous. Another one recently looks very much as if someone was arrested for calling someone else a Muppet. Yeah, I saw that. You know, this is dark, dark, dark stuff. Yeah. And I have no confidence that this government will truly tackle it.

1:01:53Piers Morgan:OK. I want to end, Owen, because I want to play the clip. This is of your former boss, Alex Jones, shouting at me on CNN in the clip that you referenced earlier. The tyrants did it. Hitler took the guns. Stalin took the guns. Mao took the guns. Fidel Castro took the guns. Hugo Chavez took the guns. And I'm here to tell you, 1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms. It doesn't matter how many lemmings you get out there on the street begging for them to have their guns taken. We will not relinquish them. Do you understand? and that's why you're going to fail and the establishment knows no matter how much propaganda the republic will rise again when you attempt to take our guns pierce don't try what your ancestors did before why don't you come to america i'll take you out shooting you can become an american and join the republic as yet i haven't actually joined the republic but the reason i played that clip is until this point i thought that was the most he shouted at somebody and then And, of course, Owen, you left his organisation and he began shouting at you.

1:02:54Piers Morgan:Let's take a look. You think Alex Jones the last 12 months levelled up? Well, guess what? The next level's here. And if you want to fight, you better believe you've got one, anybody. But if you've sucked off my tits, like the wolf that fed Romulus and Remus. And I've done nothing but giving you support. And make no mistake, for 10 years, Owen Schroer's been sucking off the InfoWars tit. And then you want to try to stab your mother in the back because you're a big boy leaving the nest. Well, guess what? You know what your mother is going to do? Piss on you. I just want to say, Owen, I'm here for you.

1:03:45Piers Morgan:And I'm a living representation, I think. There is life after being shouted at by Alex Jones, and it can be extremely pleasurable and very, very much softer on your ears. Do you have a final word for Alex you'd like us to share? I really enjoyed my time at InfoWars. It was a great time. I have nothing but peace and love in my heart. Whatever is bothering Alex, I hope that he finds peace. I don't think it has anything to do with me. I don't know why he decided to have this crash out. Other than that, it's been nothing but positivity. It's been nothing but positivity from everybody else in my world except one person.

1:04:23But, you know, Piers, if you don't mind, I'd like to close on something else here. You know, I find it incredible that we're taking anybody's opinion seriously that won't be honest about the difference between a man and a woman. I think that it's incredibly shocking that we would even humor anybody's opinion like that. And then you notice that she goes one step further and she says, well, what about the migrants? What about the asylum seekers? Do you mean Paula? Are you referring to me? What about your own citizens? I didn't disrupt you. Please be quiet. What about your own citizens? Isn't this the problem?

1:04:50Isn't this the problem that people in Europe and America are having? We're sick and tired. What is this idea that somehow somebody gets to come to your country from across the planet and get everything for free and they have some right to do it and then you're not even allowed to be upset or criticize it? What is this concept? It's a foreign concept. It is a subversive concept, and it is a destructive concept. And Piers, even though your liberal bleeding heart might say, hey, we want to be multicultural, we want to be tolerant. And I think for the most part we do. You have to admit it's resulted in violent crime.

1:05:23It's resulted in the rape of women. And we certainly cannot tolerate these things. And so we have to stand up and say, look, we have led the way as Westerners, and we have led the way when it comes to tolerance, and we have led the way when it comes to people wanting to call it multiculturalism, diversity, whatever you want to call it. We've led the way. But you know what? It's hurt us. It's hurt our people. It's hurt our future. And we're sick and tired of being told we have to put up with it. And we're sick and tired of liberals stepping into the fray and saying, no, you just have to accept it.

1:05:55No, we don't. We don't have to accept it. Life was better before it. And I think that now that we've tried this experience, we've seen that it's failed.

1:06:03Piers Morgan:Okay, very quick response from Paula. So, Owen, and I took the time to learn your name, and we'll use it because that's what the respectful thing is to do. And I'm not going to shout at you, and I'm not going to holler at you, and I'm not going to berate you and belittle you and demean your argument because I respect the fact that you might... Yeah, that's what you do to your own people with the open borders. Now you're interrupting me, and what you did was you shouted at me when I try to interrupt you just to clarify whether you knew my name or not. So what I am going to say to you is that I haven't denied biology, and I don't know why you thought that I did.

1:06:36Because I listened to what you just said. And now you're interrupting me again. And actually, there isn't that much that we disagree on in terms of why it's important for us to find a middle ground and that we can do that by debating. There is no middle ground. We can do that. There's men and women. There is no middle ground. You're interrupting me again. We can do that by having... But you're speaking nonsense. We can do that by having polite discourse, by understanding and learning where each other is coming from. Of course there is a middle ground, and to suggest that there isn't a middle ground means that it's only your way or the highway, and that simply isn't true.

1:07:11No, no, no. There's biology. There's a man and a woman. There is no middle ground. Owen, we've moved past that now.

1:07:16Piers Morgan:We've actually... You know what? We've actually moved to the end of this... Science doesn't change. We've moved to the end of the episode, and I think the... I've always wanted to do this. John, I'm going to give you the final word. You can only use one word. I'd like you to use the word that you are world famous for. Can you please close out this episode of Piers Morgan Uncensored in the only way that you know best? Bash! Have a Chinese. Thank you all very much. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing.

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