"EMBARRASSING To Trump" Israel Attacks Qatar + Russian Drones Sighted | With Jeffrey Sachs

0:00Hamas getting hit in Qatar, that's a big deal. And that is embarrassing to Trump. And I would be surprised if Trump actually knew. Israel is completely lawless.

0:13Piers Morgan:It is committing a genocide before our eyes. Israel is just a murderous rogue nation. Here you have Putin telling you, no, no, no, I have the cards. You can push Zelensky around in the White House. But on me, my friend, no, you can't. When you asked, Ian, how should it end, I didn't hear an answer. I heard, we need to be tough, we need to be resolute, we need to be credible. That's not an answer. US President Donald Trump has stood resolutely with Israel, even as most of its allies have rushed to distance themselves from an increasingly punitive war. Yesterday's unprecedented attack on Qatar may have been a strike too far.

0:54Piers Morgan:This was a decision made by Netanyahu, not a decision made by me, Trump said, before praising Qatar as a strong ally and friend. The strike does not advance Israel or America's goals. Well, Israel bombed a residential compound in Doha where the Hamas negotiating team were meeting to discuss the latest US ceasefire proposal. They say five of its members were killed, as well as a member of the Qatari security services, but the officials all survived. Diplomacy, as we understood it, has been cut to ribbons, and to that point, Trump's Alaska summit was supposed to break the deadlock on ending Putin's war on Ukraine.

1:28Piers Morgan:Instead, Russian drones over Poland have sparked fears of an all-out war with NATO. Well, later on the show, I'll be joined by global affairs expert Jeffrey Sachs, but our first big take on this remarkable and dangerous moment is from author, political scientist and Eurasia Group president, Ian Bremmer. Ian, when I heard I had you as a guest today, I was so happy because I thought, I need somebody with a massive brain who understands all this, who can put it into proper context, because it feels like a very precarious moment in both these wars. Let's start with... Good to see you in person. It's nice to be actually here in the UK.

2:05Piers Morgan:Absolutely. Whenever you're here, please come in. Let's start with Israel. When I heard that they had deliberately struck in Doha at a meeting, apparently, of the Hamas negotiating team, who were meeting to discuss the latest proposal from Donald Trump. Which is the role that Qatar has been serving for quite some time. And quite laudably. Whatever's going on in the past, they've had a lot of credit for being the sort of brokers here, the honest brokers, if you like. What was your reaction when you first heard that they'd done this, Israel? My first reaction was thinking that, wow, Qatar's been struck now by both Israel and by Iran within like a few months.

2:47Who can say that? That's quite something. Second was reminding myself that President Trump had just a couple of days before warned Hamas, you know, cease fire, take my terms that Israel says they've taken or else you're not getting a second chance. And, OK, he does all caps all the time and he can be a bit histrionic when he posts. But it wasn't as if he's in any way concerned about Hamas getting hit. THE STATE DINNER IN DOHA A FEW AMAS GETTING HIT IN KADAR, WHICH IS A PRINCIPAL NON-NATO ALLIES OF THE UNITED STATES, BIGGEST U.S. BASE IN THE REGION, EVEN A MEMBER OF THE SECRET SERVICE IS GETTING KILLED.

3:26THAT'S A BIG DEAL. AND THAT IS EMBARRASSING TO TRUMP. AND I WOULD BE SURPRISED IF TRUMP ACTUALLY KNEW ABOUT THESE STRIKES BEFORE.

3:36Piers Morgan:I would. I mean, I was at the state dinner in Doha a few months ago for Donald Trump. The Emir of Qatar held this state dinner, a big event. Huge number of influential people from around the world flew in, many of the top business people in America and so on. And the warmth and relationship between the Emir and President Trump was palpable. They go back a long way. They have great respect for each other. And I think there's genuine anger, visceral anger from the Emir, I think, and the Qataris. AS THEY WOULD BE. AS THEY WOULD BE. FOR UNDERSTANDABLE REASONS. BUT ALSO, I THINK ANGER FROM TRUMP STROKE FRUSTRATION THAT ALL THE DIPLOMACY MAY HAVE JUST GONE UP IN SMOKE AND THAT THE GOAL OF THE ATTACK SEEMS TO HAVE FAILED.

4:17Piers Morgan:IN OTHER WORDS, THE HAMAS SIDE IS SAYING NONE OF THEIR LEADERS WERE KILLED. I DON'T THINK HE'S THAT FRUSTRATED ABOUT THE CEASE-FIRE GOING UP IN SMOKE BECAUSE HE'S BEEN INCREASINGLY ANGRY THAT DESPITE ALL THE EFFORTS BY WITKOFF AND BY OTHERS THAT THEY JUST HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO GET TO YES. AND HE CERTAINLY BLAMES HAMAS FOR THAT MUCH MORE THAN HE BLAMES THE ISRAELIS. NO QUESTION THERE. BUT IS HE ANGRY THAT THE ISRAELIS HIT KADAR AND THAT HE FINDS OUT ABOUT IT TO APOLOGIZE AND NOT ASK PERMISSION? YEAH. YEAH. I THINK THAT THAT IRRITATED HIM. BUT I THINK THAT NOTANYAHU FEELS LIKE HE CAN GET AWAY WITH IT.

4:51AND ESPECIALLY BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN THE ISRAELIS BE ABLE TO STRIKE WITH IMPUNITY AGAINST ALL AND I THINK THAT THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF IRANIAN PROXIES ACROSS THE REGION. THE YEMENI CIVILIAN GOVERNMENT, RIGHT? I MEAN, OF COURSE, ASAID HIMSELF HAS JUST FALLEN. AND IRAN DIRECTLY. AND TRUMP, OF COURSE, IT WAS AFTER THE ISRAELIS STRUCK IRAN THAT HE SAID, WELL, THAT WENT PRETTY WELL. THEY DIDN'T DO ANYTHING IN RESPONSE. I WANT TO BE A PART OF THAT. So I do think that Trump has found Israel useful as a hammer in the region where the United States doesn't have to actually take the direct blowback. I think that there is some of that as well.

5:34I want to play a clip.

5:34Piers Morgan:This is from Yalda Hakim at Sky News interviewing Naftali Bennett, the former Israeli prime minister, last night. You've gone into sovereign territory, crossed the skies and launched this strike on a sovereign state. UNITED STATES AND THE UNITED STATES. YOU KNOW, WHEN THE U.S. WENT OUT AND TOOK OUT OSAMA BIN LADIN IN PAKISTAN, THEY DID NOT NOTIFY PAKISTAN IN ADVANCE. THAT WAS ALSO A SOVEREIGN COUNTRY. YOU HAVE TO DO THIS IN ORDER TO ERADICATE TERROR. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO SCENARIOS? Well, again, this is a group of political operatives that are engaged in negotiations at the behest of Qatar, which is an ally of the United States.

6:21Qatar has served that role directly. The United States has appreciated and asked them to do that engagement. The U.S. is getting frustrated, and the U.S. is getting frustrated with the Palestinians more broadly, not just Hamas. And the U.S. certainly considers Hamas to be terrorists directly, as they did do al-Qaeda and other organizations. BUT HITTING KUTTURN DIRECTLY IS A HUGE EMBARRASSMENT TO THE UNITED STATES. HITTING PAKISTAN WHEN THEY 'VE BEEN FACILITATING HAVING BIN LADEN THERE IN THE UNITED STATES HAD NO IDEA THAT THAT WAS ACTUALLY HAPPENING IN ABODABAD. THAT'S A VERY DIFFERENT STORY. SO CLEARLY TRYING TO MAKE THAT AS SOME KIND OF THESE ARE EQUIVALENCIES, THAT IS ON ITS FACE JUST WRONG.

7:01Piers Morgan:Israel is barreling through Gaza City in particular, mass destruction, hundreds and hundreds of people being killed on a weekly basis still. It's obviously utter hell for the innocent civilians caught up in this in Gaza. They seem to be acting with some form of impunity, Israel, with no sign that anyone has an ability to rein them in. Where does this take us? The senior leaders I've spoken to in Israel say that Israel has shifted from deterrence to threat eradication and that they understand that that's hurting their brand. They've had those conversations. They've seen the studies, but it's not in any way slowing them down.

7:48In the case of Gaza, that means continuing with this war. It also means creating conditions where Palestinians, increasingly large numbers of Palestinians, find it unlivable and leave. Facilitated by the United States. You'll remember when Trump met with the Jordanian king, pretty embarrassing meeting for the Jordanians, the Egyptians chose not to participate in all of that, saying we're going to create a Riviera on the Med and the Palestinians will all want to go voluntarily, which isn't true. But increasingly, a lot of them, I think, will actually want to leave. In the case of the West Bank, there is a new plan that has been floated that Prime Minister Netanyahu is in favor of, which is no more Palestinian authority.

8:34They view them as a terrorist organization. The United States does not, right? But they want no more PA. They won't engage with them. They don't want the West Bank. They instead want to create an emirate, a series of emirates, the first of which would be with these sheikhs that they have engaged with that would recognize Israel as a Jewish state. And then they would also simultaneously join the Abraham Accords. Now, if that happens, there would also be annexation by Israel of the remaining territory in the West Bank. they'd also provide security for this enclave, these emirates in Hebron to start and in other places.

9:21I don't see any of this as remotely acceptable to the Arab world. I don't see any of this as remotely acceptable to the Gulf states. The other important thing that's happened recently, Pierce, and I'm sure you've seen this, is the United Arab Emirates, which has not only been a strong ally of the United States, but has also been one of the principal signatories of the top diplomatic achievement of Trump's first administration, the Abraham Accords. And they have said that if annexation proceeds, if there is no longer a possibility of a two-state solution, which the Israelis now categorically reject, and Trump increasingly says he doesn't support it, then they will withdraw from the Abraham Accords.

10:01That's a pretty significant articulation publicly of a red line that would directly undermine an achievement that Trump is very proud of. U.S.

10:13Piers Morgan:national debt is more than$37 trillion, and these are uncertain times for the global economy. It's enough to make you think, maybe now would be a good time to buy some gold. Whether it's a hedge against inflation, peace of mind during global instability, or just sensible diversification, Birch Gold Group believes that every American should own physical gold, and they've created something special. Until the 30th of September, If you're a first-time buyer, Birch Gold is offering a rebate of up to$10 ,000 in free metals and qualifying purchases. To start the process, request a free information kit now.

10:50Piers Morgan:Just text PIERS, P-I-E-R-S, to 989898. Make right now your first time to buy gold and take advantage of a rebate of up to$10 ,000 when you buy before the end of September. Text my name, Piers, to 989-898. Claim your eligibility and get your free information pack. Again, just text Piers to 989-898. You also have, at the same time, the likes of Smodrich and Ben Gavir openly talking about ethnically cleansing Palestinians. I mean, just getting all of them out of Gaza, for example. Which, to me, would constitute a war crime, wouldn't it? I mean, that is the purest personification of ethnic cleansing.

11:37Yes. And, I mean, there's also been... There still is a significant debate about whether or not what's happening on the ground constitutes genocide. What do you think of that? The international court has not yet ruled, and as a consequence...

11:47Piers Morgan:And no country has ever actually been found guilty of waging a genocide. Even in Rwanda, it was determined that did not reach the bar of genocide, which I didn't know that, actually, until the whole genocide debate came. I was stunned to hear that Rwanda wasn't a genocide. But in that context, is it reasonable to frame what Israel is doing as a genocide? I'm certainly comfortable with saying that ethnic cleansing is going on. I'm certainly comfortable with saying that we have seen humanitarian abuses that reach the point of war crimes. I will be much more comfortable when you actually have the ability to properly investigate on the ground in Gaza, which is not the case right now.

12:27Piers Morgan:Do you think we're going to get a horrific wake-up call when journalists are finally allowed into Gaza to see the scale of it? Well, I think we are. I'm not sure that Israel is. I think that after what happened on October 7th, that was such an incredible shock. It was such that the magnitude of that terrorist attack against Israeli civilians, against women, against girls, against children was so much greater than what we saw in my own city of New York on 9-11. And then, of course, the continuing rockets and every day, all the sirens. I think that what Israelis, the average Israelis have gone through has helped to dehumanize the Palestinians in their eyes, has ended their support for a two-state solution, has ended their willingness to talk about the rights that the Palestinians have as equivalent human beings.

13:22Piers Morgan:But does the scale of the response to October the 7th from Israel, does that scale of response inevitably mean that actually the security for Israelis and for Jews worldwide is actually less secure as a consequence of all this? I would strongly say the latter is true. I mean, when I think about how much in my own United States, younger people are now much more sympathetic to Palestinians as a cause than they are to Israel. And that's not something I grew up with at all. It's quite startling to me. Even in New York City, my own New York, where such a large percentage of the Jewish population exists, and very happily in New York, right?

14:06It's very surprising to me. So I do think that anti-Semitism, which had already been far greater than any of us want to ever see, is going to continue to spike significantly because of the response, the natural response to this incredible overreaction by a country that is far more powerful than anybody else militarily in the region. Now, whether or not Israel itself will be less secure. I mean, Israel's a relatively small territory. They have extraordinary intelligence capabilities. They have extraordinary military capabilities. They can respond with overwhelming force. And they've shown that they're willing to do that consistently.

14:47It's not clear to me, given surveillance, digital technology, given the ability to maintain Iron Dome and how much that tech is improving. It's not clear to me that actual security for Israel on the ground. We saw the terrorist attack in Jerusalem just a few days ago. You know, bus depot, I guess, and a number of people killed, dozens injured. Yes, that happened. It's horrible. I'm not sure that security for Israel actually decreases. And that is the impunity is part of the problem. Yeah. Right. And there are a number of leaders around the world, a number of governments around the world that increasingly feel impunity.

15:24Not Yahoo himself feels impunity, not just because he's now gone through and is stronger in his power in Israel than he was before October 7th, and certainly then right after October 7th, but also he's managed to avoid prosecution for his own crimes.

15:40Piers Morgan:I mean, he has no vested interest in ending any of this military conflict. That's right. Because it's actually made him a bit more popular. He has personal impunity. Yeah. And the danger is that that personal impunity is not in any way fully aligned with Israel's national THAT IS A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WHEN WE HAVE INDIVIDUALS RUNNING COUNTRIES THAT ARE NO LONGER ALIGNED WITH THEIR OWN LONG-TERM NATIONAL SECURITY, WE HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM. WE SEE SO MUCH OF THIS IN THE UNITED STATES. WE SEE SO MUCH OF THIS IN ISRAEL, IN RUSSIA, IN SO MANY COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD WHERE WE JUST SAY, THESE PEOPLE AREN'T REPRESENTING US.

16:13Piers Morgan:LET'S COME TO RUSSIA. So an extraordinary development again with 19 Russian drones entering Polish airspace. Four of them were taken down. You've got the Polish prime minister and a lot of Polish politicians talking about this in extremely serious language. And by the way, most European leaders at this point are also doing so. And saying that we're as near to another world war as we've been since World War II. First of all, again, your reaction when you heard they'd done this? WE HAVE SEEN A NUMBER OF INSTANCES WHERE SHAHED MISSILES FIRED BY RUSSIA HAVE GONE THROUGH POLISH AIRSPACE. THEY HAVE GONE THROUGH I THINK ROMANIAN AIRSPACE.

16:54THEY HAVE NOT BEEN SHOT DOWN. AND THERE WERE NOT 19 OF THEM. SO YOU CAN'T SAY THIS WAS AN ACCIDENT. YOU CAN'T SAY IT WAS JUST GOING THROUGH AIRSPACE TO GET INTO UKRAINE. YOU HAVE TO SAY NO, NO, NO. THIS WAS AN INTENTIONAL ORDER. AND IT WAS GOING TO HIT POLISH TARGETS. AND THAT'S WHY THEY WERE SHOT DOWN. So from my perspective, this is almost certainly a test in the same way that Russia launching far more drones in the past few months under the Trump administration than you had seen in the first three years of the war is also a test. In the same way that going after Ukraine's top government building in Kiev, trying to hit it, trying to destroy it is also a test.

17:40They want to see how NATO is going to respond. That was the first thing I thought. And how should NATO respond? I don't think it can just be with a strongly worded letter.

17:51Piers Morgan:They can't do nothing, can they? Well, they can, of course. I mean, they could, but it seems to me that, you know, I posted on X today, that there's got to be a point where at some stage, given the brazen impunity that Netanyahu and Putin in different ways are behaving, A POSSIBLE THING THAT AT SOME POINT PRESIDENT TRUMP, BECAUSE IT WILL FALL ON HIM, AT SOME POINT HE HAS TO STAND UP AND DO SOMETHING. I APPRECIATE YOU SAYING THAT. I THOUGHT IT WAS A VERY INTERESTING FRAME. IT IS VERY PROVOCATIVE OF COURSE. BUT I WILL SAY THAT I DON'T THINK TRUMP IN ANY WAY SEES THESE TWO AS EQUIVALENT. I THINK HIS VIEW ON ISRAEL IS THIS IS A TRUSTED AMERICAN ALLY THAT HE IS STANDING WITH and they might do things occasionally I don't like.

18:33I do things occasionally they don't like. But ultimately, we are in this completely. So he doesn't feel like he needs to hit back against Israel in a real way, even though you may not feel that way, even though I may not feel that way. But on Russia, he's gotten personally embarrassed. And the question is, will he stand up? Yes. Because he's gotten embarrassed with China, but he hasn't stood up, right? He put those tariffs on. He said, well, they're going to call me. They're going to bend the knee. They didn't call him. They didn't bend the knee. And in fact, they started strangling the Americans on critical minerals.

19:02And what did Trump do? He said, oh my God, I got a problem. I'm going to have to like, you know, get back to them. I'm going to have to be willing to take a step back and actually relieve them the export controls on semiconductors. For me, the China analogy is more interesting than the Israel analogy, because here you have Putin telling you, no, no, no, I have the cards. You can push Zelensky around in the White House. You can I THINK YOU CAN'T SUSPEND YOUR INTELLIGENCE SUPPORT, YOUR DEFENSE SUPPORT ON UKRAINE, BUT ON ME, MY FRIEND, NO, YOU CAN. AND HERE'S WHAT I'M GOING TO DO TO YOU. AND WHAT WE 'VE SEEN FROM TRUMP SO FAR, HE MET HIM IN ANCHORAGE.

19:40SURE. AND HE'S TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT DEADLINES, TWO-WEEK DEADLINES, 50-DAY DEADLINES, OTHER TWO-WEEK DEADLINES. BUT YOU AND I BOTH KNOW THE AMERICANS TODAY HAVE LESS CREDIBILITY VERSUS PUTIN THAN THEY DID ON TRUMP'S INAGURATION DAY. That is the reality. And the Europeans have to be deeply concerned about this.

20:24Piers Morgan:of their success stories. England football legend Michael Owen lost£40. Robbie, the face of AFTV, dropped over£100. Linda, a top law firm executive, lost£50. And Anita, an immigration lawyer, shed£60. To watch their full stories and find out more, scan the QR code on your screen or visit OxfordNatural.com slash peers. And here's the best part. Use the code peers, P-I-E-R-S, and get 70 % off your first order. Get 70 % off with the promo code PEERS. What can anyone do about Putin? I mean, he's now launched drones into a NATO country. Yes. This is an obvious significant escalation. It is. Because it takes it into NATO territory in terms of NATO's response and so on.

21:19Piers Morgan:But what can anyone actually do? Because, you know, the fear. The fear is, look, they've got 6 ,000 nuclear weapons, Russia. They've got a despotic leader who regrets the breakup of the Soviet Union. Probably quite like to see it all restored on his watch as the great new modern czar. What can we do about Putin? Well, a lot has been done. But the point is that a lot had been done by the Europeans and the Americans together. A LOT IS INCREASINGLY BEING DONE BY THE EUROPEANS, STANDING UP MUCH MORE THAN THEY WERE A YEAR AGO. WHICH THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE FROM DAY ONE. IF THE EUROPEANS HAD PROVIDED THE SUPPORT THREE YEARS AGO THAT THEY ARE PROVIDING TODAY, AND I INCLUDE YOUR GOVERNMENT, I INCLUDE THE GERMAN GOVERNMENT, ABSOLUTELY, THE FRENCH GOVERNMENT, we might be in a different situation.

22:09I mean, you know, helping the Ukrainians not lose is very different from trying to help the Ukrainians actually win. You know, beat the Russians back. And it's not like we were saying from day one, oh, you Ukraine should be able to take over Moscow. It's, no, you should kick the Russians out of territory they took illegally. Very similar, what was America's last significant successful war? It was Kuwait, Iraq. It was Bush Sr. Desert Storm. Right. 30 days. Because they went in and they illegally invaded a sovereign country, and they beat them out, and then they stopped. They beat them out and they stopped.

22:49And the war has gone on for too long for that. It's too asymmetrical. The Ukrainians are never going to get back all their territory. We all know that. But that doesn't mean that Putin should be able to continue to attack IF HE IS BACK WITH IMPUNITY ACROSS UKRAINE, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT HE SHOULD BE TOLERATED FOR THESE STRIKES THAT WE JUST SAW INTO POLAND. WHAT SHOULD WE DO? ONE, NOW THAT THE EUROPEANS ARE STANDING UP AND DOING A LOT MORE, THE UNITED STATES HAS TO BE FULLY ON BOARD. THE EUROPEANS HAVE TO TRUST

23:30an Article 5 resolution, would the Americans come to your defense? You're not sure. That's not acceptable. You have to be sure. So the first, that level of trust has to be stronger today than it was even when NATO was founded. The second point is that when Trump talks about a 20-day deadline, a 50-day deadline, whatever it is, there's got to be consequences. The only thing he said in the last week has been, well, I think that with the Europeans, that you all should put 100 % tariffs on the Chinese and on India. He knows they're not going to do that. He knows that's an incredibly tall order that the Americans wouldn't do themselves because of the cost.