In short
The episode centers on allegations that Prince Andrew continued contact with Jeffrey Epstein after Epstein’s sex-abuse convictions, and on the release of Virginia Giuffre (Dufresne) co-writer Amy Wallace’s memoir Nobody’s Girl. Wallace claims the “infamous picture” of Andrew, Giuffre (age 17), and Epstein is genuine: she says Giuffre gave a disposable camera to Epstein, and a photographer later photographed the picture’s front and back; Wallace says the back imprint matched the development date/time/location. Wallace also argues the public should get full disclosure of the “Epstein files,” asserting FBI/DOJ already know names Giuffre shared, and that powerful people may be blocking release. She says Giuffre repeatedly identified her rapist(s), and that Giuffre received credible death threats. Wallace declines naming a “former high-profile prime minister” alleged to have raped Giuffre.
Guests
Amy Wallace (ghostwriter/co-writer); Paul Page (former Royal Protection Officer); Molly Sky Brown (claims Andrew’s team sought to discredit Giuffre); Michael Tracy (journalist); Kinsey Schofield (Royal podcaster). Key counterclaims: Tracy questions Giuffre’s credibility, citing the Dershowitz retraction; Page alleges Royal Protection officers were used to run background checks; Schofield discusses “guilt by association” and optics. Notable examples include the BBC Newsnight interview with Andrew, leaked congressional emails, the Dershowitz settlement, and the Royal Protection Officer “police national computer” inquiry.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOPrince Andrew Revelations and Controversies
0:30 to 2:06
Discussion on Prince Andrew's past actions and controversies surrounding him.
“I have utter confidence that it's a genuine picture.”
Interview with Amy Wallace on Virginia's Memoir
2:06 to 6:10
Amy Wallace shares insights on Virginia Dufresne's memoir and its implications.
“who's the co-writer of Virginia Dufresne's memoir, Nobody's Girl.”
The Infamous Photograph and Its Authenticity
6:10 to 10:49
Discussion on the authenticity of the photograph involving Virginia and Prince Andrew.
“She wanted those people to feel less alone.”
Analysis of Prince Andrew's BBC Interview
12:39 to 14:00
Critical analysis of Prince Andrew's responses during the BBC interview.
“It's in the book and it's been said before, but it is the truth.”
Prince Andrew's Relationships and Allegations
14:00 to 18:24
Discussion about Prince Andrew's relationships, legal issues, and allegations surrounding Virginia Giuffre.
“And frankly, if I was ever going to break off a relationship with somebody, I don't think I'd need to stay in their house for four days.”
Virginia Giuffre's Trafficking Experience
18:24 to 20:42
Insight into Virginia Giuffre's experiences with trafficking and the challenges of recalling identities.
“ARE YOU IN A POSITION TO SAY ANY MORE ABOUT THAT?”
The Epstein Files and Accountability
20:42 to 21:46
Discussion on the need to release the Epstein files and the lack of accountability for wealthy perpetrators.
“And frankly, law enforcement needs to do its job.”
Safety Concerns and Protecting Voices
21:46 to 22:46
Concerns about safety for survivors and the importance of amplifying Virginia's voice through her story.
“I HAVE HIDDEN THOSE TAPES BECAUSE THEY ARE PROOF OF THE VERACITY OF THIS BOOK IN A PLACE THAT NOBODY CAN FIND THEM.”
Safety Concerns and Protecting Voices
24:01 to 24:46
Concerns about safety for survivors and the importance of amplifying Virginia's voice through her story.
“And I've had the wake up call about a system which is reactive, not preventative.”
Prince Andrew's Responsibilities
25:08 to 27:08
Discussion on what Prince Andrew should do moving forward in light of allegations and his past.
“What do you think should happen to Prince Andrew now?”
Show all 16 chapters
Royal Protection Officer Insights
27:08 to 28:00
Insights from a former Royal Protection Officer on Prince Andrew's behavior and decisions.
“Paul Page, you were a former Royal Protection Officer.”
Prince Andrew's Misconduct Allegations
28:00 to 35:39
Explore the serious allegations against Prince Andrew regarding misconduct and the misuse of police resources.
“I've given her date of birth and social security number for investigation with XXX, the on-duty personal protection officer.”
Prince Andrew's Misconduct Allegations
35:42 to 35:55
Explore the serious allegations against Prince Andrew regarding misconduct and the misuse of police resources.
The Ongoing Royal Scandal
36:40 to 42:01
Discuss the implications of ongoing scandals involving Prince Andrew and their impact on the royal family.
“I think that that's one of the most terrifying parts about this story.”
Analyzing Prince Andrew's Credibility and Legal Issues
42:30 to 48:25
A detailed examination of the allegations against Prince Andrew and the credibility of Virginia Roberts-Gouffre's claims.
“Yeah, you know, the credulity with which this supposed memoir has been received across the media, especially the British media, but the American media as well, is just utterly ludicrous.”
The Importance of Transparency in the Epstein Case
48:26 to 50:34
Discussion on the need for full disclosure of the Epstein files and accountability for those involved.
“There's no new information presented in this memoir.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00You're in your apartment alone. Then you hear something. You think, was it just the storm? You realize you're not alone. Your living room is not safe with Unhinged, the new immersive game experience brought to you by Netflix. To make it out alive, you must answer the phone. The question is, when your phone rings, will you answer? Tap the banner to play Unhinged now, only on Netflix. I have utter confidence that it's a genuine picture. She handed her camera to Jeffrey Epstein and he shot that picture.
0:36Piers Morgan:You have hundreds of hours of tapes of Virginia's testimony to you, which you've hidden. They are proof. Do not break into my house. You will not find them there. Prince Andrew was the most difficult member of the royal family to work for. There could potentially be evidence on the police national computer. When the royal family reached out to me, I thought it was very pathetic. Queen Elizabeth's team should have shut this down and cut Andrew off at the knees years ago. The evidentiary basis is not there. She says in the book that one of the people that raped her was a former high-profile prime minister of a country.
1:12Are you in a position to say any more about that?
1:17Piers Morgan:Prince Andrew's continued residence in the 30-bedroom royal lodge has become a national outrage. just through revelations exposing the former duke's continued contact with Jeffrey Epstein after his sex abuse convictions, have made Andrew's royal privileges untenable. And the publication of Virginia Dufresne's posthumous memoir, packed with ever more lurid claims, has brought uncomfortable scrutiny to the opaque funding system which keeps Andrew in luxury. The king was even heckled over Jeffrey Epstein on Monday. Yet more front page stories now claim Andrew is ready to move out of his mansion, but only in exchange for two smaller properties on the Crown Estate.
1:55Piers Morgan:And there is renewed focus on the claim that Andrew Tarr's Royal Protection Officers was finding dirt to smear Virginia Dufresne. Well, we'll get to all of these claims shortly, but first we begin with Amy Wallace, who's the co-writer of Virginia Dufresne's memoir, Nobody's Girl. Amy Wallace, thank you very much indeed for joining me. Thank you so much for having me. you spent four years writing this book with virginia and it was finished before she took her life in april um crucially you have said that you know everybody who's named in the epstein files you said yes i know who the names are virginia knew who the names are but so does the fbi and so does the department of justice they have the names and they've had them for more than a decade And this really cuts to the heart of this scandal, I think.
2:45Piers Morgan:I interviewed David Boyce, who, of course, was Virginia's criminal attorney in the United States, and he represents other victims. He said that in his estimation, there were between six and a dozen men named in these files who probably should face criminal prosecution. But it does all beg the question, why have these names not been made public? Well, I have just one little correction to what I have said in the past. I don't know everything in the Epstein files. I don't think anyone in the public knows everything in the Epstein files. I know what Virginia told me that she told the FBI on numerous occasions.
3:25I know there's a scene in her memoir of Department of Justice officials taking several victims of Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein into a private room and thanking them from the bottom of their hearts. It's an emotional scene for all the help they've given and asking them to come forward some more. And Virginia definitely did that. And she knew other survivor sisters, that's what they refer to each other as, did so as well. So I only know the names that Virginia told me that she shared. I had to know them. I'm a journalist. I couldn't write a book for her WITHOUT KNOWING WHO WE WERE TALKING ABOUT.
4:04SO IF THE QUESTION IS WHY THE EPSTEIN FILES ARE NOT BEING RELEASED, YOU KNOW, THAT ISN'T A QUESTION FOR ME. THAT'S A QUESTION FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP AND THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. TRUMP CAMPAIGNED ON A PLANK THAT HE WAS GOING TO RELEASE THE EPSTEIN FILES. I'M NOT SURE WHAT'S GONE ON SINCE, BUT THAT'S A QUESTION FOR THEM.
4:26Piers Morgan:YEAH, I MEAN, IT IS FASCINATING BECAUSE I THINK THAT DAVID BOYS MADE IT CLEAR HE'D SEEN NOTHING IN ANY OF THE FILES THAT INCRIMINATED DONALD TRUMP. I DON'T THINK YOU 'VE SEEN ANYTHING. I DON'T THINK VIRGINIA SAID THERE WAS ANYTHING INCRIMINATING ABOUT DONALD TRUMP. SO IF THERE'S NOTHING AGAINST HIM, IT MAKES THIS DECISION TO TRY AND SHUT THINGS DOWN WITHOUT FULL DISCLOSURE. SLIGHTLY BATHLING. WHAT DO YOU, I MEAN, YOU MUST HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT, I GUESS, WHY THEY HAVEN'T PUT IT ALL OUT THERE. WHAT IS YOUR WORKING THEORY? Well, you know, I'm following the coverage, both the sort of mainstream media coverage and how readers are reacting.
5:04And I think the going theory out there is that there are very powerful and wealthy people who are in those files who don't want them released. And you're right. Virginia, for the two-plus years that she was with Ghislaine Maxwell and AND JEFFREY EPSTEIN IN THEIR WORLD. SHE DID NOT SEE DONALD TRUMP TAKE PART IN ANY ILLICIT ACTIVITY AROUND THE YOUNG GIRLS THAT EPSTEIN SURROUNDED HIMSELF WITH. THAT'S JUST A TWO-PLUS YEAR PERIOD, BUT IT'S A SIGNIFICANT ONE. SO THE QUESTION IS, WHO'S BEING PROTECTED? AND I DON'T KNOW.
5:47Piers Morgan:THE TRAGIC DEATH OF VIRGINIA OBVIOUSLY ENDED HER LIFE AND ended her ability to reveal any more publicly than everything she's told you. Do you believe there were things that she held back even from you?
6:04No. And I would go further. I mean, she and I worked for four years, as you say, together. The purpose of her writing this book, the real motivator for her, was not to make a list of names, but to help victims of sexual abuse of all kinds, not just Maxwell and Epstein, but anyone who's been coerced into a sexual situation they didn't want to be in, male or female. She wanted those people to feel less alone. She wanted them to understand that she knew their suffering and their continued shame because she felt it every day and it made it hard for her to get up in the morning some days. So that was her motivation.
6:47And we worked hard to portray her as a woman in full, as not just a person who had had terrible things done to her, although she definitely did, but somebody who escaped from that horrible world after being trafficked to dozens of men, potentially dozens, and then becomes a mother and is open-hearted and learns to trust again, and then decides when she has her own daughter that she needs to make the world a better place, not just for her kids, but for all of our kids. And she does so. She advocates. She steps forward. She never stopped talking about who she'd been trafficked to. She was threatened.
7:27She had death threats against her life, credible death threats. The FBI calls her at one point while she's living in Australia and says, we have a credible death threat. Take cover. And her husband rents a camper van, and they go driving off with their three small children into the wilds of Australia and stay for three weeks and then realize, what are we going to do? Our kids have to go to school, so they say go home. They don't have a private security detail. So this is a woman who is constantly balancing the costs and the benefits of coming forward. And she over and over again bravely came forward to make the world a better place, as I say.
8:02She's a hero in my view.
8:06Piers Morgan:Do you have any doubt that she did have sex with Prince Andrew? NO. ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT. REPEATEDLY. AND SHE DIDN'T JUST HAVE SEX WITH HIM. SHE WAS FORCED TO SEXUALLY SERVICE HIM. THAT'S MAYBE A DISTINCTION WITHOUT A DIFFERENCE TO SOME, BUT THERE'S A DIFFERENCE TO ME. AND WE'RE LOOKING AS YOU SPEAK AT THE INFAMOUS PICTURE OF HER ON THE FIRST FLOOR OF Ghislaine Maxwell's London home. Ghislaine Maxwell's in the background, Andrew in the foreground here with Virginia when she was just 17. There's been a concerted attempt to try and discredit the veracity of that picture. David Boyes said to me he had absolutely no doubt that it was a genuine photograph.
9:00Piers Morgan:Again, you must have, as a journalist, been cautious about making sure THE FACT THAT VIRGINIA IS PICTURE IS GENUINE. HOW MUCH CONFIDENCE DO YOU HAVE THAT THAT IS A GENUINE PICTURE? I HAVE UTER CONFIDENCE THAT IT'S A GENUINE PICTURE. I 'LL TELL YOU HOW WE TRACKED THAT DOWN. MUCH HAS BEEN MADE OF THE FACT THAT VIRGINIA NO LONGER HAD THE PHOTOGRAPH. SO IT MUST BE FAKE. AND IT'S TRUE. SHE NO LONGER HAD THE PHOTOGRAPH. Why? Because she gave it to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the FBI, and they never returned it. However, before she did that, she gave an interview to a British paper, and they sent a photographer and they sent a writer, and the photographer took a picture of the picture, which she still had in her possession.
9:53He took a picture of the front, and he took a picture of the back. The back had an imprint on it that showed exactly the date and the time and the location of the place that she took that film to be developed. And it was right next to her house in Florida when she got back from London on that trip. We reached out to that photographer who lives in New Zealand, and he verified that he held that photograph in his hands. He took those pictures and he sent us, because we didn't have a copy, we wanted to use it in the book, he sent us a copy of his picture. So we know for sure that that's a real picture.
10:27And it was taken on what used to be called a fun saver, which is these disposable cameras. Nobody has them anymore because we all take pictures on our phones. But they had actual film in them. So they had to be developed. And it was a real picture. It couldn't have been doctored. It wasn't a digital picture that could be doctored. So I have utter confidence that it was a real picture. And also what's often asked is, who took that picture? Well, it was Jeffrey Epstein. Virginia handed her Fun Saver, which she always traveled with, to Jeffrey Epstein because she thought, I'm meeting a prince and I grew up watching the movie Cinderella and I believe that princes are good people.
11:07And my mother would never forgive me if I got to meet somebody of royalty and didn't get a picture with him. So she handed her camera, her disposable camera, to Jeffrey Epstein and he shot that picture. When it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want. Like, all the way. Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha-chings from every channel right in one spot. And turn real-time reporting into big-time opportunities. Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today.
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12:33Piers Morgan:And here's the best part. Use the code peers and get 70 % off your first order. Get 70 % off with the code peers. It's in the book and it's been said before, but it is the truth. Who else would have been there? Right. FASCINATING. WELL, YEAH, WE DON'T KNOW, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY ANDREW SAYS HE CAN'T REMEMBER ANY OF THIS. WHEN YOU WATCH THE NOW NOTORIOUS INTERVIEW WITH EMILY MATLESS AT BBC'S NEWS NIGHT, WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THE WAY HE RESPONDED TO ALL THE QUESTIONS ABOUT VIRGINIA? I MEAN, THE MAN IS CLUELESS ABOUT HOW HE COMES OFF. HE NOT ONLY DENIED WHAT I BELIEVE to be true. That's a given. But he did not express any empathy for the young girls and young women who were in this trafficking ring.
13:30And he basically just said, know nothing about it. And this whole famous phrase that he says that the reason that he went to Manhattan and stayed in Jeffrey Epstein's Manhattan townhouse mansion for four days was to break off the relationship, break off the friendship, because it would have been dishonorable to do anything but to do that in person. So now we know from emails that have been coming out over the past weeks that actually he didn't break off that relationship. And frankly, if I was ever going to break off a relationship with somebody, I don't think I'd need to stay in their house for four days.
14:09There was a party thrown during that visit. So, I mean, it all, obviously, it all doesn't add up. And Virginia talks about this in the book, where Emily Maitlis' interview is crucial. They were already getting ready to sue Prince Andrew for rape and battery. That's what they sued him for in New York. And it just, I think the phrase she uses in the book is it just put jet fuel on that lawsuit, because he was clearly, like, didn't even understand the impact of his own words.
14:48Piers Morgan:Well, one thing's for sure, he's been exposed as a liar through these leaked emails. Clearly, the timeline of his relationship with Epstein went on a lot longer than he told Emily Maitlis, who has tried to pretend was the reality. The only question remaining now is how much else HE'S NOT A LITTLE BIT OF HE'S NOT A LITTLE BIT OF ANOTHER. HIS WHOLE VERACITY HAS BEEN CALLED INTO QUESTION BY THE EMPHATIC STATEMENTS HE MADE IN THAT INTERVIEW, WHICH HAVE NOW STARTED TO UNRAVEL. WHAT PEOPLE SAY WHEN THEY TRY AND SMEAR VIRGINIA AND HER TESTIMONY ABOUT ANDREW, THEY CITE THE CASE INVOLVING ALLAN DERSHUITZ, THE LAWYER, BEEN A GUEST ON THE SHOW MANY TIMES.
15:25Piers Morgan:AND IT WAS WHEN SHE DROPPED HER
15:33Piers Morgan:She previously claimed Epstein trafficked her to Dershowitz multiple times between 2000 and 2002. He always denied the allegations, said they're completely untrue. The fact that she dropped that and acknowledged she may have made a mistake in identifying him has given sucker to those who say, well, you know, how can you take anything she says seriously when she made such enormously serious allegations against somebody, but then says it may not have been him?
16:07Yes, I will say one thing about her settlement with Alan Dershowitz and one thing only. It's basically to repeat what you just said. What Virginia said in the statement that was agreed upon after that case was settled, it was a public statement, was that she may have made a mistake. Now more generally, I will say, in general, not speaking about Alan Dershowitz, her memory was remarkable. There's a scene in the book where her lawyers are trying to figure out who are the identities of all the men she's been trafficked to. Because remember, some of these girls, often they were sent into these darkened massage rooms, dim, and a naked man was lying there and they'd been told to sexually service that person.
16:54They had not been politely introduced to that person. They just went in and there was an old man lying on the table. And many of them were. One man was 56 years older than Virginia. So how to then hold these people to account? So the lawyers were very careful. They came up with three buckets of photographs. One bucket was well-known men. We've all seen their faces. Familiar. Another bucket was Epstein associates that were Epstein associates during the years that Virginia was with him, the two-plus years. And then thirdly, Epstein Associates, who were known Epstein Associates, but who she couldn't have known because they came after she was gone and had moved to Australia.
17:39They mix them all up on a table. They ask her, look at the faces. Pick out ones that you think you've been trafficked to. They said she never made a mistake. SHE NEVER PICKED FROM THE WRONG BUCKET. THE THING SHE ALWAYS SAID TO ME IS THIS, I MAY NOT GET EVERY DATE, EVERY TIME, EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK RIGHT, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE A MAN ON TOP OF YOU, HIS FACE, SIX INCHES FROM YOUR FACE, AND HE IS RAPING YOU, YOU REMEMBER THAT FACE.
18:17Piers Morgan:SHE SAID IN THE BOOK THAT ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT RAPED HER WAS A FORMER HIGH-PROFILE PRIME MINISTER OF A COUNTRY. THAT IS AN ASTONISHING ALLEGATION. ARE YOU IN A POSITION TO SAY ANY MORE ABOUT THAT?
18:36WELL, PEOPLE WHO READ THE BOOK WILL SEE THAT THE MAN WAS A SADIST, NOT JUST A RAPIST. If you're asking me if I can name that person, the answer is no, and I will explain to you why. As I've said, every victim of sexual assault weighs, cost, benefit. I want to hold them to account. What's it going to cost me? My privacy, obviously. In Virginia's case, physical safety and threats. And she received them. So that gentleman, she was afraid would kill her. And in the weeks since the book has come out, I've had people get in touch with me and say, we know who that guy is, and he would kill her. He has the ability to do so.
19:23So that's one. Then she also had threats of people indirectly or directly getting in touch with her and basically saying, take our names out of your mouth or else. And what do they mean by that? we have the wherewithal to keep you in court for the rest of your life, repeating, repeating, repeating, repeating the worst things that have ever happened to you. And remember, this woman has three children. She had to protect her family. And so she made decisions, which readers of the book will see. She discusses the way she made the decisions, how she wanted to scream the names, all of the names from the rooftops.
20:02But she had, In the end, she's a mother. She needs to protect her family. They had had threats. And frankly, those children are still alive. Virginia, sadly, is not. She should be sitting here where I'm sitting. She should be talking to you. But her family is still alive. And some of these folks are scary. So Virginia made decisions and my stance as her ghostwriter, her collaborator, is to give her something that I wish she had received more of during her lifetime when she was with us, which is respect. She made decisions that I respect and I'm not going to breach them. And frankly, law enforcement needs to do its job.
20:47She named names in depositions that have become public. You can find them on Google. anyone who's watching this right now can find those document dumps. There are four of them on Google. There are names in those. But more importantly, she and other brave survivors of this sex trafficking ring went to the FBI repeatedly, talked to Department of Justice officials repeatedly. Their names are in the Epstein files and nothing has been done about it. So that's why there's a clamoring in the United States right now to release the Epstein files. AND IT'S NOT A PARTISAN CLAMOURING. IT'S A HUMAN ISSUE. IT'S NOT A DEMOCRAT-REPUBLICAN ISSUE.
21:27IT'S A HUMAN ISSUE. POOR PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE TREATED BY WEALTHY PEOPLE IN THIS MANNER AND GET AWAY WITH IT. WHY DOES ONE GROUP LIVE BY A DIFFERENT SET OF RULES THAN ANOTHER? THAT'S NOT FAIR. SO PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF IT. AND THE EPSTEIN FILES HAS BECOME A SYMBOL OF THAT.
21:45Piers Morgan:YOU HAVE HUNDREDS OF HOURS OF TAPES OF VIRGINIA'S TESTIMONY TO YOU. YOU HAVE HIDDEN. DO YOU FEAR FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY? HAVE YOU HAD FRETDS?
22:01I 'VE TAKEN PRECAUTIONS. AND YOU'RE RIGHT. I HAVE HIDDEN THOSE TAPES BECAUSE THEY ARE PROOF OF THE VERACITY OF THIS BOOK IN A PLACE THAT NOBODY CAN FIND THEM. SO AS I 'VE SAID IN OTHER INTERVIEWS, DO NOT BREAK INTO MY HOUSE, YOU WILL NOT FIND THEM THERE. I'M BEING CAREFUL. I MEAN, BUT HERE'S WHAT RETECTS ME, I HOPE, IS THAT VIRGINIA'S VOICE IS NOW OUT THERE. YOU CAN'T SHUT IT UP. YOU CAN'T BOX IT UP. YOU CAN'T DO THAT BY HURTING ME. NOW, MAYBE SOME OF THESE PEOPLE ARE VINDICTIVE ENOUGH THEY JUST WANT TO MESS WITH ME. I CAN'T KNOW THAT, AND I'M TRYING TO BE VERY CAREFUL. BUT THIS BOOK GIVES HER VOICE STAYING POWER.
22:47and it's electrifying both sides of the pond. It's the number one book in the UK. It's the number one book in the US right now. And people are angry. They are angry. And that in itself, I don't know that it protects me. I'm not taunting anyone to come at me. But it's important to me that people know that this woman was brave. SHE AND OTHERS LIKE HER HAVE BEEN CALLED SLUTS, THEY HAVE BEEN CALLED TRAMPS, THEY HAVE BEEN CALLED MONEY GRUBBING HORRORS SINCE THEY CAME FORWARD IN THE BEGINNING. AND THAT'S GOING ON, VIRGINIA CAME FORWARD PUBLICLY IN 2011, SO THAT'S 14 YEARS OF HER LIFE. SHE WAS ONLY 41 WHEN SHE DIED.
23:34SO THINK ABOUT THAT, CONSTANT, CONSTANT, CONSTANT, BEING DRAGGED THROUGH THE MUD. So to put up with that and to still step forward on all of our behalf, it is amazing. And I'm happy to do whatever I can to continue to make clear that that is her legacy. And the book is the ultimate proof of that.
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25:19Well, I'll throw out an idea. I don't have high hopes of it happening. But, you know, he continues to deny. He did it again when he, you know, voluntarily did away with two more of his titles last week that he had nothing to do with this. Okay, fine. Stipulated. Let's just leave that aside. You settled with Virginia for a large amount of money. I don't know how much. But fine. You didn't – you're going to assert that. I don't care. You claim that you care about these victims. You claim in public statements, perhaps written by publicists, but you've claimed that you care about the welfare, the way these women were treated.
26:04And you have two daughters. So here's something you could do, Prince Andrew. You said at one point that you would come forward and help U.S. investigators. You made a big show of it at one point. And strangely, it never happened. Well, you could still do it because you were on the island. YOU WERE IN THE MANSIONS, YOU WERE IN THE PRIVATE JETS, WHICH, BY THE WAY, WEREN'T JUST JETS THAT YOU IMAGINE WITH SEATS. THEY WERE RECONFIGURED TO HAVE BEDROOMS IN THEM. THEY WERE FLYING SEX TRAFFICKING DEVICES, THOSE PLANES. AND PRINCE ANDREW WAS IN ALL OF THOSE PLACES A LOT. AND HE SAW WHO WAS THERE. HE SAW GIRLS TAKEN TO CABANAS WITH OLD MEN ON THE ISLAND.
26:49AND HE COULD VALIDATE THOSE WOMEN'S EXPERIENCE WHO HAVE BEEN SO MALIGNED OVER THE PAST TWO DOZEN YEARS. THEY 'VE BEEN SO MALIGNED. HE COULD HELP WITH THAT IF HE REALLY CARES SO MUCH. I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THAT.
27:07Piers Morgan:AMY WALLACE, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU JOINING ME. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME. I APPRECIATE IT. Well, joining me now to discuss this is the former Royal Protection Officer Paul Page, Molly Sky Brown, who claims that Andrew's team approached her to discredit Virginia Dufresne, the journalist Michael Tracy, and the Royal podcaster Kinsey Schofield, host of Kinsey Schofield Unfiltered. Well, welcome to all of you. Paul Page, you were a former Royal Protection Officer. There's now been reports in the Mail on Sunday at the weekend that Andrew asked his taxpayer-funded personal protection officer to investigate Virginia Giuffre and even passed him her date of birth and confidential US social security number.
27:54Piers Morgan:It's also reported he'd emailed Ed Perkins, Queen Elizabeth's deputy press secretary, to say it would also seem she has a criminal record of mistakes. I've given her date of birth and social security number for investigation with XXX, the on-duty personal protection officer. So there is an active train of evidence there. which suggests that he was clearly trying to get dirt on Virginia Euphraie and using the Royal Protection Police to do this. What is your reaction to that? Well, I've always said in my interviews that Prince Andrew was the most difficult member of the royal family to work for, and that's just an understatement.
28:34Obviously, he's put this Royal Protection officer in a situation in between a rock and a hard place. So basically, the bottom line is that that officer would have to report that to his line supervisor. Now, that officer would not be a PC. He would be a sergeant or an inspector, an experienced officer. And so he would have to pass that to his line manager, which I suggest was a superintendent at the time, in a side 14-2. And that undoubtedly would have ended up on the commander's desk, Commander Loughborough at the time. Now, the issue that Prince Andrew has got is that, as it stands at the moment, it looks like a conspiracy to commit misconduct in public office.
29:17It takes two or more people, so obviously Prince Andrew is requesting a police officer to potentially use the police national computer to do illegal searches on Virginia's Ufrae. So there could potentially be evidence on the police national computer because when you do a check on a person, you have to put in the reason code, as in, is this person in custody? Have you stopped him in the street? Or is it a general inquiry? And you have to provide your police number in order so there's a trackable record of who has asked for this request and why. And so if this has been done, then it will come back to an officer.
29:58And that's going to be a problem.
30:02Piers Morgan:And you worked with the royal family for six years. You say he was the most difficult member of the family to deal with. I think you helped look after the Queen, Prince Philip and others. What made him so difficult? It was rude. It was disrespectful for staff, police officers, verbally abusive. I've said it before, he was a bully. He was coercive. He forced us to break the rules, to let women in. We didn't know who they were, which was obviously going against strict security problems, especially when the Queen was in. on another note, which comes back to asking his PPO to do the PNC check, he would have his personal protection officers drive some of these unknown women home of an evening after they'd been with Prince Andrew.
30:45Well, that's not our remit. We're not taxi drivers for Andrew's bits of fluff at the end of the day. Their role is to protect him, not to act as a taxi service for these unidentified females, not to mention him using his PPOs as ball boys when he's knocking his golf balls about at Buckingham Palace. So this is the type of person you're dealing with. You know, if you don't do what he asks, then you'll be seeing the back door. And that was what he's like.
31:12Piers Morgan:Molly Sky Brown, it was reported in The Times this weekend that Prince Andrew paid a PR advisor, Mark Gallagher, up to£500 ,000 for around 18 months' work. He stepped down from advising the prince in February 2021 after it was revealed he contacted you after you had claimed the picture of Virginia Dufresne, Prince Andrew and Ghislaine Maxwell was a fake and you'd attacked her credibility online. Just tell me about that approach by Mark Gallagher. How did that happen? When the royal family reached out to me, I thought it was very pathetic. I sent all of the information directly to the media and to the FBI so that they could all be held accountable and interviewed.
31:52And none of that ever came to be. The FBI here is 100 % corrupt. It's a global issue. I'm speaking to the audience, we the people that we want the answers to at this point. So I really appreciate you inviting me onto your show today.
32:07Piers Morgan:Well, you know, as you know, you've been called an Internet troll and so on. I don't know the truth. You talk about your truth. I have always thought there's only one truth. I don't particularly like the phrase my truth because I think it's open to a lot of a lot of weird fact twisting. So I just don't know. Virginia is not here to defend herself, obviously. I think what's interesting is that after you made these allegations and comments online, you were then contacted by a representative paid for by Prince Andrew about the picture, for example. So I'm just curious about that process. How did Mark Gallagher contact you?
32:49So originally, Antonio Marshall had reached out to me, and that is Berge's assistant. I didn't know who any of these people really were at the time because I'm not infatuated or enamored by prestige. She reached out to me through my Instagram page and then also found my email address and messaged me. And she and I spoke for, I want to say, a good hour on the phone. We spoke for quite some time. I could feel all of her gaslighting. She was talking about how Prince Andrew and Fergie were still living together in a happy couple and that Prince Andrew doesn't do the stuff. He doesn't let people take pictures of him.
33:23And I mean, it doesn't matter. I believe that Virginia had sex with him. So then Mark Gallagher reached out to me. I really wasn't comfortable speaking with him because he is Prince Andrew's PR agent, a spin doctor. And I told him such. I said, it's much deeper than just a photo scandal. And if we can't talk about that and get to the bottom of it, then there's really no reason to talk. And again, I went to the media directly afterwards and the FBI. And that's when the media posted about all my intel that I had received and my screenshots about this. And And that's when Mark Gallagher stepped down.
33:56Piers Morgan:Just to be clear, you don't actually have any independent evidence. These are just your theories. Well, Rena Oh was the one who brought it to my attention as well. She is convinced that it is layers. Victoria Hervey, she and I used to speak for a while. I didn't trust her either, but I was getting intel. As a survivor myself, I don't trust anyone. I'm just always getting intel. Lady Victoria Hervey I have a 14 minute conversation that she was giving me voice recordings I have posted this as well to my YouTube to my Instagram and to my blog and she talks about how she found the artist that had made the compromat uh she posted pictures about it it's all over her Instagram page but unfortunately she's a lot of the I've interviewed her I know but I've interviewed her about that and it's I've interviewed her about that and none of that makes sense because she wanted to free Ghislaine Maxwell so the story she told me is very different than what she tells you all.
34:48That's all I'm saying. I just try to relate the story repeatedly. Yeah, yes. And then she attacked me after saying she was interested in getting my story out.
34:57Piers Morgan:Yeah, I just know I spoke to Virginia's lawyer. David Boies is one of the most eminent criminal attorneys in modern American history. And he's 100 % certain that picture is genuine. That's all I know. And I take his word over Victoria Hervey's any day. OK, let's move on. Kinsey, there's so much stuff swirling around about this. It seems to me the most potentially lethal swirl is the constant release of these leaked emails from the US Congress investigating this, that Andrew, every week that goes by, more stuff comes out about him, about his ex-wife Sarah Ferguson, which contradicts the public statements they made about their friendship with Epstein.
35:35Piers Morgan:That is highly damaging, because it goes right to the heart of their credibility. Today's show is sponsored by One Skin, which could help all of us look even younger. One Skin is redefining skincare with cult favourites like OS1 Body, Face and Eye, built around their patented OS1 peptide, which is clinically proven to target senescent cells, a key driver of skin ageing. Backed by five clinical studies, One Skin products improve skin texture, firmness and elasticity over time. They have more than 10 ,000 five-star reviews, Born from over 10 years of longevity research, OneSkin's OS1 peptide is proven to target the cells that cause the visible signs of ageing, helping you unlock your healthier skin and hair now and as you age.
36:20Piers Morgan:For a limited time, try OneSkin with 15 % off using code PEERS, that's P-I-E-R-S, at oneskin.co. That's 15 % off oneskin.co with code PEERS. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them, So please support our show and tell them that we say she. Yes, first of all, congratulations on Woke is Dead. I think that that's one of the most terrifying parts about this story. We're watching this evolution where we don't know. I mean, was there any material that was cut from the book? Was it cut from the book just because the publisher only wanted a certain amount of pages? There is still so much mystery surrounding this story.
37:02We have the Epstein files that will continue to leak. We have these tapes that you just mentioned in another interview that exist that could potentially include more details. There's too much on the line here. Prince Andrew, he jeopardizes the royal family by the day, and I think he needs to be out of sight, out of mind.
37:28Piers Morgan:Well, we're actually seeing the real cold, hard reality of the impact of this. King Charles was heckled during a visit to Litchfield Cathedral in Staffordshire by a protest who asked him about Andrew and Epstein's relationship. Let's take a look. How long have you known about Andrew and Epstein? Have you asked the police to cover up for Andrew? Have you asked the police to cover up for Andrews, Charles? What do you think? Should the MPs be allowed to debate the royals in the House of Commons?
38:04Piers Morgan:No, you're always going to get hecklers at royal events. It's not unusual. But, you know, it's clear the questions that that protester were yelling are, to many people's eyes, they'll be valid questions to ask of the king about his brother. and that's why this becomes so damaging to the wider family. They can't just shrug this off. You're right, but I mean, what was the ultimate objective there? It felt like that was somebody peacocking. When has the royal family stopped in their tracks and said, we're going to give you this exclusive to this random person? Maybe when the Prince of Wales was asked if his family was racist.
38:40Yes, he shut that down. We are very much not a racist family. I thought the king handled this okay. This is a man that survived an assassination attempt. He just he didn't blink. He just moved forward. Ultimately, I don't blame King Charles. I feel like Queen Elizabeth's team should have shut this down and cut Andrew off at the knees years ago. And King Charles is ill and is navigating a very difficult situation.
39:08Piers Morgan:Yeah, I mean, the problem, it seems to me, is more that this is open season on the whole royal family because of this scandal not going away and, in fact, just getting bigger and more damaging, it seems, by the week. That is... It's very hard to see what they do. The papers are reporting, the Sun exclusive, said that they're planning to move out of the Royal Lodge, but that Andrew is demanding Frogmore Cottage, the former home of Meghan and Harry, of course, but also a separate property in Royal Grounds for his ex-wife, Sarah Ferguson. And, you know, the moment you hear Andrew is demanding, I don't think he's in any position to demand anything, is he?
39:45Wish in one hand, you know what in the other. He has no negotiating power here. He should have given in when they initially offered him Frogmore Cottage once they booted Harry and Meghan out. He doesn't deserve two properties, and he should not be on the Windsor estate where Prince William is trying to create a safe environment for his children. There have been protesters out there recently, helicopters above. Prince Andrew is a distraction and will continue to wreak havoc. He needs to be far, far away from here.
40:17Piers Morgan:And the problem, finally, Kinsey, for you, is when you see an event like the Duchess of Kent's funeral, for example, recently, you see Andrew there trying to be centre stage outside the church, standing next to William, the future king. William clearly very uncomfortable. Andrew making what appeared to be clumsy jokes, which seemed very inappropriate. But the whole optics of that are just, THEY'RE TOXIC FOR THE ROYAL FAMILY. YOU ARE WHO YOU ASSOCIATE WITH. THAT IS WHAT, I MEAN, WHETHER PRINCE ANDREW'S GUILTY OR NOT, YOU ARE WHO YOU ASSOCIATE WITH. THERE ARE THOSE IMAGES OF ANDREW STANDING NEXT TO EPSTEIN.
40:54IT LOOKS ABSOLUTELY VILE TO THEN SEE PRINCE ANDREW SITTING THERE TRYING TO JOKE AROUND WITH PRINCE WILLIAM, THE FUTURE KING. I THINK THAT IT'S GUILT BY ASSOCIATION FOR ANDREW AND EPSTEIN, AND IT DOES NOT REFLECT WELL ON THIS MONARCHY to have Prince Andrew anywhere near the working members of the royal family.
41:17Piers Morgan:Michael Tracy, you were thrown out of a press conference held by Jeffrey Epstein victims and lawmakers on Capitol Hill last month. You said afterwards, my question was a straightforward one, but the assembled media and politicians clearly found it appalling, given that Virginia Roberts Dufresne admitted that she had spent nearly a decade falsely accusing a prominent individual graphic sex crimes, why should she now be seen by the public as remotely credible? This alludes to what I was discussing earlier with Amy Wallace, the co-writer of Virginia Dufresne's memoir about the Alan Dershowitz case, in which she stated after dropping the allegation she'd made against him, she may have made a mistake in identifying Mr.
41:57Piers Morgan:Dershowitz. You believe that goes to the heart of her credibility? Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited premium wireless for$15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made$15 bills. But it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for a 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy.
42:30See terms. Yeah, you know, the credulity with which this supposed memoir has been received across the media, especially the British media, but the American media as well, is just utterly ludicrous. What could be fatal to someone's credibility other than spending nearly a decade making the most lurid and graphic claims of sex crimes against a prominent individual? Which, let's remember, Virginia Roberts-Gouffre described in granular detail with respect to Dershowitz, insisted and was adamant that she was 100 % certain that she had correctly identified him. And then lo and behold, all of a sudden, she has to admit that she, quote, may have made a mistake, or at least that's how the statement was worded that her lawyers drafted for her, one of whom, meaning her lawyers, was Bradley Edwards, who had been delegated to MC that vaunted press conference last month in front of the Capitol.
43:27So, I mean, I've read this whole book, okay, this whole supposed memoir, and there are portions of it that are basically just repackaged, almost verbatim with some minor cosmetic adjustments from her original memoir manuscript that she wrote in 2011, was never published, but she was shopping it around to literary agents, hoping to get a big payday. and over the course of litigation that she initiated, right, her extortionist lawyers initiated a whole slew of litigation on her behalf, but over the course of discovery, she had to eventually concede, or her lawyers conceded on her behalf, that that original memoir manuscript was fictionalized.
44:09It was a fictionalized account of her purported experiences, supposedly so she could engage in some trauma therapy or something, but the reason, the real reason why the lawyers had to make that stipulation was because the memoir manuscript defamed a whole host of people and made numerous claims that were wholly unsupported. And Amy Wallace, the ghostwriter who you interviewed earlier, simply transports key passages from that admittedly fictionalized memoir into the new memoir. So what due diligence did Amy Wallace do journalistically to verify that those passages which Virginia Roberts Kufry herself and her lawyers had admitted were fictionalized, what due diligence did she do to discover that now they're supposedly factual and nonfiction in 2025?
44:59None that's made particularly clear in this new memoir. So for Prince Andrew, and I'm not, I have no particular brief for the British royal family, but for him to be so relentlessly hectored as a pedophilic sex criminal on the basis of nothing really more than the word, the uncorroborated and partially retracted word of a serial fabulist is ludicrous. But he did have a relationship with a convicted sex offender. He did have a relationship with a convicted sex offender. Okay, having a relationship with Jeffrey Eppstein, there's nothing to prove that he actually engaged in sexual conduct with this woman.
45:38Piers Morgan:I would ask you this, Michael. I would ask you this. If Andrew is innocent, why did he pay a woman he said he'd never met a reported$12 million to avoid going into court having stated publicly and repeatedly, I want to have my day in court, I want to clear my name? That, I'm afraid, is what people cannot work out. Why would you give$12 million to someone you say you've never met? And secondly, he made a number of emphatic statements, including that he'd never met Virginia Dufresne and he'd never had sex with her and so on, to Emily Maitlis in that BBC Newsnight interview. But he also, in that interview, emphatically denied having anything to do with Epstein after the infamous Central Park walk and the four days he spent there.
46:26Piers Morgan:But we now know from the leaked emails from Congress that that is a lie that he carried on seeing with it in consorting with him for a sustained period afterwards. So his own veracity has been exposed as very unreliable. Why? Why are you siding with him against Virginia Dufresne? It's not so much that I'm siding with him. I don't particularly care about Prince Andrew. I'm trying to as best as possible side with the factual record or the best approximation of the truth. and nothing that Virginia Roberts Gouffre ever said or did can be taken as the unvarnished truth absent corroborating evidence.
47:02And there's never been any corroborating evidence presented that Prince Andrew engaged in sexual contact with this person. Why did they settle? Well, you've had David Boies on your show. I've watched it. He's a very aggressive and skillful lawyer. He timed the lawsuit against Prince Andrew in 2021 so that it was just before the Queen's Jubilee years. She was obviously ailing, obviously was going to be a PR fiasco, whether he was guilty or not for him to pursue the litigation process. And so they made a judgment that it was best to settle. As you know, I'm sure he admitted no liability or culpability in that settlement.
47:38And Virginia Roberts Couffre, who were constantly told was this beleaguered victim who had this horrible traumatic life in every single respect, she was a multi-multi millionaire some of these uh settlement funds that boys and edwards were able to broker gave the supposed victims tax-free compensation amazingly enough and virginia roberts good frank got to purchase palatial estates uh ranch estates in australia an oceanside mansion she had this uh ngo that she supposedly set up that the other guest mentioned that was a basically just the fiction. I mean, it didn't do anything to raise awareness.
48:15Piers Morgan:So in other words, Pierce, there is nowhere near ample enough grounds to continue to torment Andrew about his supposed culpability for victimizing this woman because the evidentiary basis is not there. There's no new information presented in this memoir. Amy Wallace simply just repackaged digitalized memoir OK, OK, OK, OK, OK, but nothing, listen, but nothing you said actually goes to what I said, which is why do you give$12 million to someone you've never met? And why do you tell Emily Maitlis you closed off all contact with the convicted sex predator in Jeffrey Epstein when it turns out you didn't at all?
48:56Piers Morgan:And we only know that through leaked emails. Andrew is lying. Look, I don't know about the veracity of Virginia Dufresne. All I do know is that there were thousands of women, several thousand women who are believed to have been abused and raped and treated like dirt by Epstein and his rich, powerful cronies. None of them have been brought to justice. And I think the focus should be on that rather than smearing the women making allegations, even if it turns out that, you know, as we saw with the Dershowitz case, she may have got some of these names wrong or details wrong. You know, I suspect that goes with the territory, with these kind of investigations.
49:33Piers Morgan:But it doesn't clear Andrew because we now know from his own words he's been lying. And I'm afraid he needs to put himself, to me, he needs to go in front of the investigators under oath for as long as they determine would be what they require from him to tell exactly what he knows. And we also need to have full disclosure of all the Epstein files immediately. And then we need to have people in there held properly to account. David Boyce says between six and 12 men named in their deserved criminal prosecution, well, then they should get it. And the fact this is still going on ten years later and we don't have that information, you know, one of the best ways to get to the truth is often through the court process, where people are under oath with the penalty of perjury and going to prison, and they have to tell the truth.
50:18Piers Morgan:That's what we need to get to. But, look, I've got to leave it there. It's an interesting debate. I appreciate you all coming on. Thank you very much. Peter's Morgan on Sensor is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, We ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.
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From the publisher
Prince Andrew’s continued residence in the 30-bedroom Royal Lodge has become a national outrage after emails unveiled he lied about severing ties with Jeffrey Epstein after his convictions, plus the publication of Virginia Giuffre’s posthumous memoir ‘Nobody’s Girl’, packed with ever more lurid claims.
Amy Wallace, who spent years with Virginia and co-wrote the book with her, joins Piers Morgan to discuss some of the most shocking revelations contained within.
Then Piers speaks to former royal protection officer Paul Page about the renewed focus on the claim that Andrew tasked staff with finding dirt to smear Virginia.
Plus Uncensored is also joined by Molly Skye Brown, who claims Andrew approached her to discredit Virginia, royal podcaster Kinsey Schofield and journalist Michael Tracey, who thinks people have been too quick to believe Virginia’s allegations and to smear Andrew.
Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by:
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