“EVERYTHING Has To Come OUT!” Epstein Emails On Trump Leaked | With Alan Dershowitz

23:09I know something you don't know. I know what's in those documents. That's why it's so important to get these judicial POSSIBLE. I WANT TO GIVE THEM TO THE I WANT THEM OUT THERE. IF THE JUDGE WILL GIVE ME PERMISSION, I HAVE THEM IN MY POSSESSION. MY LAWYERS HAVE THEM. JUDGE, LET ME GIVE THEM TO PIERCE MORGAN. I WANT TO GIVE THEM TO PIERCE MORGAN. WHY, JUDGE, ARE YOU PREVENTING ME FROM DISCLOSING MATERIAL THAT WOULD BE VERY, VERY IMPORTANT IN PUTTING A WHOLE PICTURE ON THIS THING? I WANT TO BRING IN. those things out.

23:39Piers Morgan:Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, guys, guys. I want to bring in Mark Lamont Hill. Mark, aside from this, we also have the ongoing situation with Ghislaine Maxwell. House Democrats have said this week that she's preparing to formally ask President Trump to commute her federal prison sentence. She's obviously now in a less strict prison as we speak. She told the Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch in an interview earlier this year that she'd never witnessed the president in any inappropriate setting in any way and didn't ever recall seeing Trump at Epstein's house, although she had seen him at social settings.

24:16Piers Morgan:What's interesting about that, I think, is that these emails seem to suggest that she must have known Trump had been at Epstein's house because Epstein's emailing her about it. So rather like with Andrew, the artist formerly known as Prince, although he's not an artist, rather like him, they're being damned in a way by these email leaks contradicting their public statements. And then if you think, well, if she's lying about that, if she's lying about knowing that Trump had been at Epstein's house, which seems to be the case, what else is she lying about? And obviously she has a vested interest in saying whatever it takes to get Trump to commute her sentence.

24:59Piers Morgan:So all of that is going on as well. Yeah, I mean, if I were sitting in a prison and Donald Trump were the person who could get me out, I would say that I saw the JFK assassination. I mean, like, it doesn't matter what the thing is, if I need someone to get out. Credibility is shot for Maxwell, but not just for her. And I think that's what makes this so messy. And to beat the dead horse, that's why we need all the information released. Donald Trump says that he and Epstein fell out over competing, you know, interests in a property. Next thing you know, it's, oh, it's because he was poaching people from Mar-a-Lago.

25:35The stories change. An email says that she knew, that she had no knowledge of Donald Trump's actions later on. It's like, oh, she definitely knew. I don't know who to believe. I don't know what to believe when it comes to these people involved in this scandal, because all of them seem to be saying contradictory things, and that's the danger. But I can guarantee you one thing. Her tune will not change if she's up for a commutation, because that's just human nature. That's just common sense.

26:03Piers Morgan:You know, what's interesting, Eric, I'm just checking here some background information we had before we did this panel. In a 2016 deposition for a civil case, Virginia Giuffre was asked if she believed Donald Trump had witnessed the sexual abuse of minors in Epstein's home. She said, I don't think Donald Trump participated in anything. I never saw or witnessed Donald Trump participate in those acts, but he was in the house of Jeffrey Epstein. Then And she added, I've heard he has been, but I haven't seen him myself, so I don't know. Now, again, the significance of that, which is nine years ago, is that clearly from the Epstein leaked emails today, he's talking about seeing Virginia Dufresne in his house with Donald Trump for a number of hours, which would contradict her statement there, made five years after that email was sent, saying, I haven't seen him myself, so I don't know.

26:56Piers Morgan:So, again, what we're seeing is a kind of, through these leaks, because they're coming selectively, we're just seeing a lot of stuff that's been said publicly by everybody involved, seemingly, getting contradicted by the leaks. But we don't have all the leaks. We don't have all the information. And it's quite hard to work out proper context for this stuff. Pierce, you know, the sad part is being this far removed from when the actual nefarious operations, things were going on in the island and also in Manhattan, et cetera, around the world. We're looking back and now all of a sudden any sort of crossing paths with Jeffrey Epstein is some sort of guilt or an indictment of Trump or anyone else.

27:39Let's not forget Bill Gates was at the many high level celebrities were at this island. Did they participate in the sexual rape, the pedophilia going on? No one knows. But certainly because they've crossed paths or Epstein casually mentioned someone's name in an email that, yeah, that guy knew. Doesn't indict them, doesn't make them guilty of it. And what's happening is now the Democrats are releasing this the way they are. And frankly, the way the Trump administration handled the original, we're going to release and then pulled back, is creating this media circus around it. Clearly, it's a media.

28:15Epstein has massive appeal to the consumer, to the news consumer and the political consumer. I just don't think it's going to have a political influence the way I believe the Democrats think it will. My guess is there may be some sort of smoking gun with Trump, but it also will incorporate some high-level donors on both sides, maybe some friends of Trump, certainly some friends of Biden, or it would have come out during the Biden administration. And everyone's staying quiet. And once again, the American people get screwed. We get completely blindsided by the swamp and the disgusting shit that goes on.

28:53You know what's even bigger than this that no one's talking about? The$100 or$200 million that congressional members and senators have paid victims of their own sexual abuse. Yet we're worried about whether Donald Trump knew or didn't know what was going on at the Epstein mansion when it was going on. At this point, who the hell really cares?

29:14Piers Morgan:Well, I've got to say, I care, actually. and I've known Donald Trump a long time. I like him personally. He's been a friend of mine. But I care. I care because 2 ,000 young women and many underage girls were abused by a lot of rich, powerful people, and we still have only had one person held accountable for that, and it was Ghislaine Maxwell, a woman. So no man has ever been held properly accountable. Epstein cheated accountability by, I believe, taking his life. Others think otherwise, but I think you probably did. I don't mean to belittle the victims. I'm not belittling the victims. I agree that anyone who's known to have participated in this as a man or anyone who facilitated the abuse, the pedophilia, Julianne Maxwell and others, should be held accountable, should be in jail.

30:03I absolutely agree. I meant for Trump, politically, release the stuff.

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31:49Piers Morgan:That's expressvpn.com slash peers. Alan, I want to bring in another sort of twist to this, which is the involvement of Michael Wolff, the author. He's written, of course, a number of best-selling books about Donald Trump. He's in this new batch of leaked emails. It's kind of fascinating. I mean, it's no secret that he has, I think, over 100 hours of tape of interviews with Epstein. He's talked publicly about that. But in an email from January 2019, Epstein writes to Michael Wolff about Donald Trump. Of course, he knew about the girls as he asked Ghislaine to stop. So we've had that. Now, that's during Trump's first term, seven months before Epstein takes his life.

32:33Piers Morgan:Epstein wrote to Wolff apparently to address Trump's claim that he asked Epstein to resign his membership. He claims in his emails that he hadn't done. The White House says Trump barred him from Mar-a-Lago for being a creep and for stealing employees to go and work for him, and it turned out abused some of them. But in a third email, Wolfe writes, he wrote to Epstein with the subject line, heads up. This is December 15, 2015. That's the day of a CNN Republican primary debate. Wolfe says, I hear CNN planning to ask Trump tonight about his relationship with you, either on air or in the scrum afterwards.

33:10Piers Morgan:Epstein responds, if we were able to craft an answer for him, what do you think it should be? To which Wolf replies, I think you should let him hang himself. If he says he hasn't been on the plane or to the house, then that gives you a valuable PR and political currency. You can hang him in a way that potentially generates a positive benefit for you, or if it really looks like he could win, you could save him generating a debt. Of course, it's possible that when asked, you'll say Jeffrey's a great guy and has gotten a raw deal as a victim of political correctness, which is to be outlawed in a Trump regime.

33:40Piers Morgan:Now, lots to unpack there, but, you know, my reading of this, why is Epstein saying if we're able to craft an answer for him, what do you think it should be? Should we read into that that he's maintaining some contact with Trump, that he actually would want to send his thoughts to Trump? And then you've got a pretty sort of, I mean, you know, Michael Wall's role in this is obviously clearly very, some would argue he's just being a, you know, a classic investigative journalist. But the sort of way he's plotting for Trump to hang himself, as he puts it, by answers that it looks like they may give him to say, it all looks a bit weird, doesn't it?

34:23It does. And we have to understand, too, that, you know, when Jeffrey Epstein talks to a journalist, he's talking in his own self-interest. So we have to ask questions about what is his motive? Is he telling the whole truth? Is he trying to curry favor? Is he trying to attack? We know that Jeffrey Epstein was an extraordinarily manipulative guy. And so you don't take at face value anything he necessarily says, especially when he says it to an interviewer who's going to be writing a book which he hopes will be favorable to him. So I think skeptical minds have to be kept open, which is why every piece of documentation has to be revealed.

35:06Nothing. By the end of this, there shouldn't be a single piece of paper, a single recording, a single videotape that has been suppressed. Until everything has been released, nobody can be satisfied that the whole truth has come out. even if everything has been released, we have to look at the statements critically because not necessarily are every statement being made absolutely credible and true.

35:30Piers Morgan:But Mike Nellis, I mean, that line, you know, the more you read it, look, it may be misleading. It might be ambiguous. I might be misreading it. But for Epstein to reply to Wolf when he's told CNN are planning to ask him about his relationship with Epstein, if we were able to craft an answer for him, what do you think it should be? I mean, is there any other way of reading that than that Epstein is still in contact with Trump to be able to do that or what? I mean, what are we reading into that? No, I mean, it seems to me like they were still in contact. We know that they were close. We know that they were friends.

36:03And I think the other thing I would add to this is the number of times that Donald Trump or someone in his orbit has lied about his relationship with Epstein is just unbelievable to me. Go back to the goofy, weird, creepy birthday card that they And even Donald Trump was like, I've never made a doodle in my life when we know document wise he has made doodles like that in the past. It lines up with what he was doing at the time. So they just keep lying. And to me, it does seem like they were probably having contact, probably coordinating on some level. And Michael Wolff's email is also interesting to me because he's talking about using it as leverage.

36:33If Donald Trump becomes president of the United States, if Epstein is in hot water, he wants Trump to win. He wants to protect Trump, leverage that to get a pardon or a commutation. And I want to add something a little bit to what Eric said a few moments ago about why this is so important, because I really believe this Epstein scandal is super important, not just because of the politics of it. I think the politics on it are going to be awash, because if we get everything out there, there's going to be lots of Democrats implicated, going to be lots of Republicans. But we're in this situation where a lot of people do not believe that the federal government is going to take care of people and that this government right now under Trump is a protection racket for billionaires and incredibly wealthy and powerful people.

37:06So we need to make sure that all these documents get out there, that these people are exposed, that people are held accountable, and they get some justice for these victims. I think that's incredibly important, regardless of the partisan politics of it. You go back 20 years to the Wall Street financial crisis, nobody was held accountable for crushing the economy. Nobody was held accountable for all the folks who had their lives ruined and their homes taken away from them. I think this is the same thing. We've got to show that this is not a two-tiered justice system where the rich and the powerful can get away with abusing people and distorting people's lives.

37:36Can I just jump in there? How unique and hypocritical that is for you to say, Mike, thank you for jumping in on the political nature, whether the political needle moves or not, no matter what's in there. I agree. I think it's going to be a wash no matter what names are on there. I find it kind of funny now you're talking about equal justice applied under the law. when the guy Trump just went through four years of the most ridiculous unequal two-tiered level of justice that we've ever seen. Alan can weigh in on this if you think I'm wrong. I mean they were making felonies out of misdemeanor charges just so they can see if they can get a felony attached to Trump and now all of a sudden, oh, I think the Democrats were wrong.

38:17The lawfare that went on for the four years is wrong and I also think that Trump should release this no matter who was in it even if his own name is smack dab in the middle. One final thought, let's not forget, Donald Trump told his people to disenfranchise Jeffrey, give him back his membership, get him away from Mar-a-Lago. There's a reason for that. I mean, all this finger-pointing is nonsense until we have the names and context of what's going on. We can't indict and convict Trump until we know what happened and then he goes through the due process. That's my final thought on whether Trump's guilty or not.

38:53Can I respond to that, Pierce, real quick? Sorry, just because it was directed to me. Yeah. I mean, one, I disagree with the assertion that there was a two-tier justice system for Donald Trump. I think Donald Trump has committed many crimes and he should be held accountable for that. Fine, we're going to disagree. I look forward to you speaking out with just as much ferocity as you just had when Donald Trump indicts Adam Schiff this week, which is supposed to be rumored over some bullshit stuff that they've trumped up. There is, I'm sure that there have been times in the past under Democratic and Republican administrations where the DOJ didn't do its job the way that it should have.

39:22But in this administration right now, Donald Trump is personally interceding, firing and removing people who aren't going after his political opponents. The stuff with Tish James, James Comey, it's all bullshit. And it shows you that everything that Donald Trump does is about his personal responsibility. He's going after these people for the same things that they went after him for, which were bullshit in the first place. I don't agree with that. Let's remember what Chris James. Joe Biden is not the one who ordered that. James went after Donald Trump for how his mortgage was prepared on a document when she was doing the same damn thing.

39:59But hold on, there's a different thing here. At least be fair. At least be fair about this. Eric, let me add something, though, because the difference is most of these charges that Donald Trump has had the DOJ bring against Comey and Tish James and others, they're likely going to be thrown out. The difference is that Donald Trump was found guilty by a jury of his peers of fraud. Now, it's in the past now. The American people decided they didn't care about that. Jury of his peers. Jury of his peers is very, very... Well, let's set the record straight. Creative on your part. Let's set the record straight on Trish James.

40:31Trish James ran for office. The only time I've ever heard a prosecutor do this since Stalin's time on the claim of, I'm going to get Trump, no matter what he did. I HAVEN'T DONE ANY RESEARCH. I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT IT. BUT MY CAMPAIGN IS GET TRUMP. AND SHE TRIED TO GET HIM IN EVERY WAY. SHE TRIED TO INVENT CRIME. SHE COULDN'T FIND. FINALLY SHE WENT AFTER HIM CIVILLY. THEN THEY WENT AFTER HIM CRIMINALLY. I HAVE NEVER SEEN A WEAKER CRIMINAL CASE IN MY 60 YEARS OF PRACTICING LAW THAN THIS MIRACULOUS CONVERSION OF A MISDEMEANOR WHICH WAS TIME BARRED INTO A FELONY BASED ON MULTIPLE CHOICE. IN 60 YEARS I HAVE NEVER SEEN A worst case, criminal case, than the one against Donald Trump.

41:13You may be right, you may be right about things that Donald Trump did, but these cases against him by Trish James and by the district attorney of New York are two of the worst cases I have ever seen in my years of practicing criminal law. And what we're seeing is warfare and lawfare on both sides, and it has to stop on both sides, not just on one side. Now, you can't blame Biden for that, But you can blame two democratically elected New York officials, Trish James and Alvin Bragg. And Alvin Bragg was just reelected, and Trish James will probably be reelected. They have absolutely violated their norms of criminal justice and done terrible things in order to get Trump.

41:55I wrote a book called Get Trump. I didn't come up with that title. That was Trish James' campaign pledge to get Trump. IT REMINDS ME OF WHAT LAVRENTY BERRIER, THE HEAD OF THE FBI, SAID TO STALIN, SHOW ME THE MAN AND I 'LL FIND YOU THE CRIME. AND THAT'S WHAT THESE NEW YORK LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS DID. THEY SET OUT TO GET TRUMP, THEY LOOKED FOR CRIMES, THEY COULDN'T FIND THEM, SO THEY MANUFACTURED THEM AND I THINK THEY 'LL BOTH BE REVERSED ON APPEAL. I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT AT ALL. HANG ON, HANG ON, MIKE.

42:24Piers Morgan:MIKE, HANG ON. I WANT TO STOP YOU BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE E-MAILS BEING RELEASED AS WE'RE SPEAKING. It's what I've been slightly distracted by as you guys were debating there. And, Alan, there is one that mentions you. It's kind of, it's not, I would say, significant to what we're talking about. It's just interesting. Jeffrey Epstein called Trump borderline insane in a 2018 email exchange with Larry Summers, the former Treasury Secretary and president of Harvard University. Trump borderline insane, Epstein writes, who then makes a reference to you, Alan, AND SAYING, DERSH, A FEW FEET FURTHER FROM THE BORDER, BUT NOT BY MUCH.

43:01Piers Morgan:In other words, he's suggesting you're nearly borderline insane. I mean, what is your reaction to that? Well, at that point, Epstein and I were enemies. Obviously, he thought I had made him a terrible deal, that sweetheart deal. He refused to pay me my legal fee. I threatened to sue him. I was not in a good relationship with him. and I terminated any kind of relationship. I had an academic relationship with him primarily. I went to a lot of his seminars. I spoke at one of his seminars. But as soon as he was arrested and charged and as soon as I saw the evidence, I no longer went to any of those seminars.

43:42And Epstein was furious at me. So I've never seen that email, but I can easily imagine that I'm thinking that I'm a little bit kooky. But I'll let the public decide my mental status.

43:56Piers Morgan:You know, it's interesting. Again, there's another email I want to read to the rest of the panel in a moment. But the veracity of Ghislaine Maxwell's testimony is now coming under a lot of heat today following the release of these emails. You know, Yashir Ali, who's a very prominent poster on X, has just posted the exchange about the dog not barking and says, you know, the email that's most newsworthy in my mind, and Mike, I'll come to you for this, is the one that Epstein sent to Gillian Maxwell in 2011. This was years before Trump ran for office. It appears that Gillian Maxwell lied to DOJ officials during her meeting with them a couple of months ago, and that's the inference being that she knew a lot more than she let on.

44:38Piers Morgan:I do think there's a lot of stuff here coming out which is contradicting, again, and again, I reference the Andrew scandal back in the UK because he was eventually done in several weeks ago because new emails emerged that contradicted his public statements and those made by his ex-wife, Sarah Ferguson, that they had cut all contact with Epstein. It turned out they hadn't at all. And, you know, the interesting thing about this, there is so much more to come. You know, one email that we've just had published, Carl Griffin, a reputable producer, has posted an email from a former Obama counsel, Kathy Rumler, in which Epstein says, you see, I know how dirty Donald is.

45:17Piers Morgan:My guess is that non-lawyers, New York business people, have no idea what it is to have your fixer flip. That seems to be a reference to Michael Cohen, Trump's former fixer, flipping on him, obviously, and about business dealings. The dirty Donald phrase is going viral already. It's all getting very, very messy, this. And like I said at the start, it is a kind of political death by a thousand cuts, and everyone involved is getting... I mean, somebody mentioned Watergate earlier. I happened to be at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library Museum on Monday night doing an event for my book, Woke is Dead.

45:54Piers Morgan:And it reminded me that in the Nixon scandal, it took a long time for that to unravel. It took several years before the original Washington Post stuff was really laid bare for everyone to understand how big it was and then all the repercussions. and here we've been many years into this scandal and yet it seems to me the scandal is burning ever more ferociously and I think this is going to get a lot bigger. When you finally find your thing, you want the whole world to know about that thing. So you use a thing called Canva to make it an even bigger and better thing. Whether you want to create flyers for that thing, make presentations for that thing or design merch for that thing, you can do anything.

46:42So people can see your thing, feel your thing, love your thing. The next thing you know, it's a thing. Canva, the thing that makes anything a thing.

46:55Yeah, it's going to get worse before it gets better. And I think a lot like Watergate, it's going to be death by a thousand cuts because the cover up is worse than the crime. Although the crimes here are pretty terrible. So there might be the one time that that's not the case. But again, we don't know what Donald Trump has done, but we know he's covering up something either for himself or for other people. You brought up the Jelaine Maxwell email. I agree. She's very likely contradicting what she said to the DOJ earlier this year, which, by the way, is because they're dangling a pardon or a commutation in front of her.

47:21And also because they moved her into a minimum security prison that she should not be in with the crimes that she has committed. So it is about how Donald Trump uses power. Again, this White House exists as a protection racket for wealthy and powerful people. Donald Trump has pardoned an unbelievable number of people this year. He has abused his pardon power. And by the way, before somebody jumps in, other presidents, including Joe Biden, have also abused their pardon power. And I think that it's wrong because I know somebody is going to say something about that. But Donald Trump is pardoned pop beaters.

47:49He is pardoned drug dealers. He is pardoned other sexual abusers. He's dangled his pardon in front of Jaleigh Maxwell. So did Clinton. So did Biden. Yeah, Eric, I already addressed that. Mike, do you honestly believe? I already addressed that, man. Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide in prison in 2019. So we've had the full extent of the Biden administration to dig into this, to find out. They had to hold the Department of Justice, had everything that the Trump Department of Justice has. And you're going to tell me now that somehow Biden either missed it or decided not to release Donald Trump, damning evidence on Donald Trump as he's about to become reelected when all they wanted to do was make sure he wasn't reelected.

48:31If there's a smoking gun with Donald Trump's name on it, I'm positive we would have seen it before the 2024 election. I would bet my last one of my last dollars on that, at least. Why is he holding it out? Maybe he's playing a political game with the other side, like play this cat and mouse game with him. And finally, maybe at midterms go what you want it. OK, here it is. Democrats see nothing there except Bill Clinton, Bill Gates, Larry Summers and whomever else is on the list that actually participated. former... What is fascinating?

49:04Piers Morgan:What is fascinating, Mark Lamont Hill? I'll come to you, Mark. You're muted there. I don't know if you've hit the wrong button. But just to come to you, you know, the interesting thing to me, just in that latest email I mentioned, you know, it's an email exchange in 2018 with Larry Summers. This is a former Treasury Secretary, president of Harvard University, who is still in email contact with a convicted pedophile. I mean, that alone, right, under normal circumstances, you go, well, hang on. What's Larry Summers doing emailing with Jeffrey Epstein so many years after his conviction? So I've always taken a view with this that there are people who could claim plausible deniability if they disowned Epstein from the moment of his conviction.

49:49Piers Morgan:But if you carried on consorting with him afterwards, then I think all that plausibility disappears very quickly. You know what he is. Very much so. Unless you're legal counsel, there's not a really good reason to hang around Jeffrey Epstein. And I think that speaks, though, to Eric's question, right, or assertion, which is that if there were a smoking gun, the Biden administration would have used it. The Harris administration would have used it. The Democrats would have used any tool they had to get Donald Trump out of office. I think you're right about that. If, and this is a huge if, though, Eric, if the only smoking gun is one that implicates Donald Trump.

50:30But as we said earlier, it's the most likely scenario, quite frankly, is that they're all guilty. Is it a whole bunch of people who are rich and powerful, who are red and blue, Democrat and Republican, all did a bunch of really crazy stuff. And it's mutually assured destruction. It's not that Biden was holding back because he loves Donald Trump or because, you know, he was scared to play that card. It said playing that card would implicate a whole bunch of people who donate to his campaign. It implicates a whole bunch of people who support him and who have power that operates outside of the government.

51:01You know, sometimes I tease or make fun of, really, the conspiracy theorists on the right and the left. But sometimes they're not wrong. Sometimes it's kind of what it looks like. And so I think that's the most likely outcome is that there's a bunch of powerful people who did a bunch of foul shit, and they're doing everything they can to cover themselves at every turn. You know what, though?

51:22Piers Morgan:Yeah, and it may be. Well, hang on, Eric. Eric, hang on one second. I mean, to that point, it may well be that as Trump got informed, I don't know, or the White House or somebody got informed of all the other high-profile names in there, there are also prominent donors to the Republican Party, for example. You know, I know from David Boyce, the criminal lawyer, that he says there are maybe half a dozen, maybe more high-profile names in there who should warrant criminal prosecution. And who are they? Why is anyone wanting to protect them? Let's remember, too, that Virginia Goufray in her new book, Names, Names, she names names.

52:02Whether they're falsely accused like I was or whether they're truthfully accused, I don't know. But she names the man who invented artificial intelligence. She names the governor of New Mexico. She names the U.S. representative to the United Nations. She names a prime minister of a foreign country. She names Jacques Cousteau's granddaughter. She names so many prominent names. They're all in there. They're in the book. Now the question is, is it true? Should there be investigations? Like there was extensive investigations of me, and I was vindicated. I was able to prove that I was nowhere near her.

52:36I never met her. I never heard of her. It was just a completely case of mistaken identification. That may be the case with others as well. That's why we can't use the word victims as an end in itself. If people claim they're victims, they may be victims. But there are women who have collected money from the Epstein Fund who never met Epstein. Their lawyers put them up to it. They made false accusations. We know the names of at least two or three people who have now admitted making false accusations. So let's reveal every name. Let's investigate everything. Let's find out who the true victims are, who the false victims are, who the perpetrators are.

53:14There are multiple perpetrators and multiple victims. Let's get at the truth. Here's the thing, Alan. There is a class of people in this country, of the wealthy and powerful, who are out there protecting each other. And that's to the point of, Eric, like you like to point out, the Biden administration didn't— You sound like Mamdami. You sound like Mamdami. I don't sound like Mamdami. Well, you feel that way because you're part of that class of people, Alan, and you want to be protected just like the rest of the people. Right, yeah, sure. I'm part of that class. I'm a wealthy multi—I'm a law professor who made a couple hundred thousand bucks a year.

53:41I mean, based on everything I know about you, Alan, you've done pretty well and you rub elbows with a lot of powerful people. Nothing wrong with that. But I'm not a member of that class. I have a small apartment in New York. But this class nonsense. He's not an elite. It's Marxism at its worst. And it's just not true. Alan Dershowitz, I got to stand with Alan on that. He is not an elite. He's just because he's a Harvard law professor who has represented some of the most powerful and influential figures in the world, who is a best-selling author of numerous books and has had extraordinary influence over global public policy.

54:12That doesn't mean he's an elite. He's just like you and me. he can have a beer with us. I'm a regular guy. Just a regular guy, Alan. I'm a regular guy.

54:20Piers Morgan:As we're talking, I'm going to end what's been a fascinating panel, and thank you guys for all scrambling so quickly. It was obviously very late-breaking news, and I really appreciate you joining me. It's a really interesting debate. As I'm talking, more and more emails are coming out. Another email here, which is just more cryptic than anything, from Epstein to Paul Krasner in 2017 with the subject heading Trump. It says the allegation was not at a pedophile party. It was at my house with me. To what wording would you suggest I change that? So we don't, again, know exactly what that means, what it's referring to.

54:57Piers Morgan:But it certainly is going to cause, I think, a lot of speculation, as indeed it already is. So thank you very much to my panel. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. It was a pleasure. Well, I'm joined now by the host of the Tara Palmieri show. Tara Palmieri. Tara, welcome back to Uncensored. What do you make of all this stuff crashing out today in these leaked emails? Well, Pierce, I always believed it would be a drip, drip, drip. It would always be, you know, these emails from the estate, leaks, whistleblowers that would tell us the full story. As you and I know, having covered this story for a very long time, the Department of Justice does not self-police when it hands over documents that are highly redacted, and that this is the way we're going to learn the full story of Jeffrey Epstein.

55:44It's going to be through putting the pieces together of his correspondence.

55:51Piers Morgan:You knew, obviously, Virginia Dufresne very, very well. She appears to be the redacted name that Epstein's referring to in this already quite infamous email where she talks about the dog that has embarked being Donald Trump. You know, she made it clear, I think, while she was alive and in her posthumous book that Trump, as far as she's concerned, never did anything wrong. What do you read into that email in particular? You know, I think it's really interesting. You know, I spent a lot of time with Virginia Jouffre, and I did find her to be very open. But I also sensed that there were places that she wouldn't go or didn't want to go or had fear about going.

56:33You know, her story is very, it's a story that involved a lot of really powerful people. And I think she, because of the kind of assault she was under from the press, intimidation, people tried to break into her home, lawsuits, defamation, she was really careful about what she shared. But you're right. I mean, she said that she liked Donald Trump. He was nice. He was around Jeffrey Epstein and the girls, but she said that he was a perfectly friendly person to her. At the end of the day, I know that there are men that she was trafficked to that did not make it into her book, not even in the sort of blind item style way that she wrote.

57:16She was trafficked to as many as three dozen men, and you don't even know the start of it. Like, it's incredible. So I think with this story, we're just going to learn more and more. And I do think that Virginia, having seen her reputation dragged for decades, she was really careful about what she said publicly.

57:45Piers Morgan:I mean, do you think we're going to see a lot of high-profile people actually brought to account here? Do you think this is going to lead inevitably and eventually to criminal prosecutions? Well, in her depositions alone, there are a lot of redacted names of men. And these men spent a lot of money and time paying lawyers and fighting in court to have their names redacted. Those names are in the Epstein files. if they are ever released or a whistleblower wants to release them, you'll see the names of men that the public has never heard before. And I think that would be really shocking because some of these people are still leaders.

58:29And, you know, it's not just leaders in finance and academia and in science, leaders in politics. And I still find it to be shocking that it's only in your country where we've really seen any justice, that we've really seen anyone have to pay for their association with Jeffrey Epstein having to step down from public life. We haven't had that yet, even though, you know, some could argue what the U.S. The U.K. ambassador to the U.S., his email connections are just as close as the ones that President Trump has and others. So it's very, it's shocking that no one's had to pay a price. And if anything, what you're going to see is the White House whipping even harder against House Republicans to vote against releasing the Epstein files in a few weeks.

59:23I had a source reach out to me last night saying that Republicans were starting to break and that they thought it would be difficult to vote against releasing the Epstein files. when that happens, that they would vote yay. But it's going to, the pressure is going to be more intense on them now. I can only imagine the whip count, but I just don't know how they take this vote, especially as these emails come out. It was strategic. Democrats knew what they were doing by waiting and holding on to these emails and making it so that it would become so impossible for this party to stand behind the president on this one?

1:00:05Piers Morgan:I just don't think it's sustainable that the White House maintains a position, having taken everybody up the hill, saying we're going to release them, we're going to be transparent, we're going to get accountability for the victims and so on, to suddenly put the shutters down and to try and maintain that position, I think is politically unsustainable. And I think there were a lot of people breaking ranks. we know from the MAGA crowd how enraged they are about this. Trump has to be very careful, I think. And if I were him, I'd just release the whole lot. I'd say, look, we're just going to release everything and then let everyone gorge over the entrails of all this stuff and hopefully bring the right people to justice.

1:00:42Piers Morgan:Tara, I'm going to leave it there, but thank you very much indeed for joining me. Thank you. Piers Morgan on Sensor is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate, and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.

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