‘Expecting An Attack Any Day Now” Venezuela Boat Attacks With John Kiriakou & Ed Calderon

0:00When you finally find your thing, you want the whole world to know about that thing. So you use a thing called Canva to make it an even bigger and better thing. Whether you want to create flyers for that thing, make presentations for that thing, or design merch for that thing, you can do anything. So people can see your thing, feel your thing, love your thing. The next thing you know, it's a thing. Canva, the thing that makes anything a thing.

0:31You said fentanyl at the beginning and you are right. A lot of that product is not coming from Venezuela. It's coming from Mexico, it's coming from China specifically. It's a very broad sword, this narco-terrorism designation. I think that is being used to conduct some regime change.

0:46Piers Morgan:Right, so that's the key point here. I think there's something horrible happening here and this is just one part of the chessboard. Perhaps this is a way to keep the Chinese out of the Caribbean, to keep the Chinese out of Venezuela. You can say you're doing it in order to stop the flow of drugs, even if that's not really the case. What will the CIA be doing right now in Venezuela? To effect a coup, if you want it to be quick, everything that's important is going to take place in the capital. You have to control the radio and television stations. You have to surround the presidential palace, and you have to control the major intersections in the city.

1:24Once that happens, all the other dominoes begin to fall.

1:29Piers Morgan:The White House is very clear about why it's ramping up pressure on Venezuela drugs. Venezuelan cartels are shipping fentanyl into the United States, they say, with the full complicity of President Maduro. The socialist leader is thereby contributing to a crisis which has killed hundreds of thousands of Americans, justifying a state of war readiness and a series of deadly airstrikes on small Venezuelan boats. But not everybody is convinced the majority of all fentanyl in the U.S. is made using Chinese chemicals by cartels in Mexico, from where almost all of it is imported. Well, Ed Calderon is a combat instructor, security consultant, and a cartels expert.

2:04Piers Morgan:And he joins me now. Ed, thank you very much indeed for joining me. Thank you. What do you make of this? I mean, Donald Trump is accusing Nicolas Maduro, the president of Venezuela, of conducting a narco war, of running a narco-terrorist cartel. You're a cartel expert. Is he right? The connections between his family and the movement of cocaine into the United States has long since been known. 2015 saw two of his nephews basically arrested for some of these issues. The military in Venezuela has been engaging in these activities for years now. It is something that is happening. Cocaine, though, you said fentanyl at the beginning, and you are right.

2:50A lot of that product is not coming from Venezuela. It's coming from Mexico. It's coming from overseas, China specifically. It's a very broad sword, this narco-terrorism designation. I think that is being used in this case to conduct some regime change.

3:08Piers Morgan:Right. So that's the key point here, is that many people think it's a cover for regime change aspirations by the US government under Donald Trump. and many people speculate it's because Venezuela has a lot of oil and that you have a socialist leader who they think is there by default. The last election he should have left but he's refused to go and so on. And there's also a kind of like an anomaly here where if you were choosing one of the countries in that region as a place to target for import, say, cocaine or illegal drugs generally, then you would probably choose Colombia, not Venezuela. So why Venezuela?

3:4810 % of cocaine, these are U.S. government numbers back from 2009. 10 % of cocaine coming into the United States was coming from Venezuela. These numbers are now completely impossible to know because of some of the things that are happening on the seaside. The military has long since been known for their association with certain cartels, specifically the Sinaloa cartel, when it was existing back in the day. Chapo Guzman was arrested speaking to members of the military trying to figure out how to get a close connection. Yes, Colombia should be on that list as well, and I think it might be on that list.

4:28I think many countries in South America and North America, that being Mexico, are probably on a list. They're attempting to do something in Venezuela that they might want to replicate other parts of the continent, I think. it's hard to it's hard to it's hard to blame the United States as far as how abused the situation in Venezuela I mean I'm currently in Sweden and I've spoken with some people who are refugees of Venezuela here and they've explained to me how the current government has basically stolen their lands put in people that they know and family members that they know in positions of power in that region and basically took everything for themselves they're looking for any single way every single way of making money in that region.

5:13And the military is very much involved in some of these activities. So it's a real thing. Now, how big of a threat is versus other parts of the continent and prioritization, that's where I know people are questioning resources specifically in that region. But the Venezuelan government itself has single-handedly destroyed most of its ability to process a lot of the fuel that it extracts from the ground. So here we are.

5:45Piers Morgan:Right. So you've got a sort of chaotic regime, probably illegitimate now, and acting with impunity. And that may be a collection of explanations for why the US is considering regime change. Of course, Donald Trump has always been very anti-regime change and spoken out against regime change and thinking America should be America first and shouldn't be intervening in foreign countries. So what do you think is going on here with this change of mind, if that's what happens? I mean, Venezuela has very clear ties to the United States' enemies abroad. I mean, Russia and China. And we have to mention that they are nowhere to be seen realistically as far as coming to their aid.

6:33I think there's something global happening here, and this is just one part of the chessboard that the United States is playing.

6:43It's unsustainable. Whatever is going on there as far as the governance and just, I mean, I get to speak to a lot of refugees and people. I do a lot of charity work and to speak specifically to the immigrant situation. There is something happening there that is driving humanity away from that country that is undeniable. Now, is that a just cause to blow up drug boats in the ocean without really knowing exactly what's going on there? And the people that are on those boats, this is beyond on my wheelhouse. But people there are expecting an attack any day now. And people that are not there, who are living abroad, are jubilant with the possibility that the regime is going away.

7:34And it's hard to ignore those voices as well.

7:38Piers Morgan:There has been a mass exodus of people from Venezuela, hasn't there? Yes. We saw the migrant caravans being conformed by many Venezuelans going through Mexico. Some of these encampments were full of them. We have this narrative in some places where all of these migrants are criminal, which is not the case. Again, I've been speaking to some in Switzerland who are highly educated people, People that came from wealthy families that were pretty much set in Venezuela that were stripped of land, stripped of property, stripped of everything they owned and basically left to the wind. Choice Hotels get you more of what you value.

8:27Here's a little tune to help you remember. Same drive, different day. Don't you wish you were getting away? Pack your bags and come on through. Texas, Ohio, Alaska, we're up there too. Comfort Inn, it's calling your name. Save on the stain. Oh, and free waffles are yours to claim. Well, I hope you like my little song. Book direct at choicehilletails.com. This broad stroke that sometimes gets labeled on some of these migrants as all being criminal, as all being part of these international, transnational gangs is false. But yes, the mass humanity that has been moving out of the country and crossing the border, specifically in the time of the Biden administration, where that border was basically wide open, a lot of those were Venezuelan.

9:22A lot of the...

9:29The thing gets told a lot by the president right now in the United States about prisons being emptied. That actually did happen. And prisons were emptied. And Mexico, specifically right now, and I have friends who are working at a federal level right now, they're dealing with Trendanahuala threats in Mexico City, for example, where they're setting up. They're clearing out cartels that are local Mexican cartels with their ongoing efforts against the cartels in Mexico. And now you're seeing Trendanahuala people basically setting up shop in Mexico. So yes, it is a real threat that is happening not only throughout Latin America, but in Mexico, and yes, the United States as well.

10:13Speaking to some of my counterparts who are active there, they've seen this threat, and it is a real one. But it's not all of them. Again, this broad stroke, this broad brush that gets painted against all of them as criminals or as some sort of undesirable people is just not the case.

10:31Piers Morgan:What is the general view amongst the Venezuelans you've talked to about the likelihood that these boats that are being targeted are being gang-operated, they are criminals, and they are trying to bring in large amounts of drugs into the United States and therefore are legitimate targets? It's probably, I mean, this is a transport job. These drug boats are drug boats. There's no denying that they are moving quantities of drugs through the ocean. Now, are they going to make it all the way to Florida with the fuel they have on those boats? Probably not. They're transporting from one point to another.

11:10Most of the trafficking has moved to the ground. That's where the real threat as far as drug trafficking happens. Most of it is now moving through the ground. You have on the Pacific side the Navy, the U.S. Navy, and on the Caribbean side, it's full of government ships. The sentiment is mixed. You have to realize that a lot of these people that are probably on those boats are poor, marginalized people. I don't think there are any sort of military officials on those boats. They're kids. They're minors, maybe, on some of these boats. And, you know, if you're a human being and you have any sort of sentiment towards humanity, seeing them get blown up in the middle of the ocean and then survivors getting blown up again is going to be something that's going to hit you in a certain way.

12:07Piers Morgan:Will it act, though, as a deterrent, which is obviously what the Trump administration is saying, is that they believe if they keep doing this, the number of boats bringing these drugs over, which, as you say, you're certain they are drug boats, that if they want to stop the drugs coming, this will be a very effective deterrent? It is a very effective deterrent. Fear is there, I have to say. It is a very effective deterrent. The trafficking side of things on both sides of the ocean, We don't hear a lot about some of the boats that have been taken out on the coast of Mexico, but there have been a few as well.

12:46And speaking to people that are in law enforcement, still currently active on both sides of the border, both in Mexico and the United States, they have seen some sort of stoppage, at least of traffic on the ocean. So it is working on that end. But we also have to realize that drug prices and the availability of some of these substances hasn't really diminished or moved in any significant way. So, yes, there is an effect on the ocean and the way things are being trafficked, and fear is in the water, basically. But the effects of these policies haven't been felt in the cities and on the streets in the United States.

13:36So I think that's where at least people on my end of things who are analysing this closely haven't really seen that needle move. So then is this working would be the question.

13:51Piers Morgan:Right, because these drug gangs, they're very sophisticated, they're very well resourced. And presumably, if they lose a particular way of transporting their drugs, they'll find another way. That's it. Yeah, that's it, Piers. Colombia is another source. Mexico is another source. So there's a lot of sources. Right now, this very broad sword that is this terrorist designation is being utilized in Venezuela for many reasons. And I think we all know that there are many more reasons beyond that of this being a specific counter - I mean, also, there's a kind of obvious double standard that's just emerged this week, where you've got President Trump in a cabinet meeting yesterday saying anyone who brings drugs into the U.S.

14:39Piers Morgan:will die. Let's watch the clip.

14:45Mr. President, if you are declaring war against these cartels and Congress is likely to approve of that process, why not just ask for a declaration of war? Well, I don't think we're going to necessarily ask for a declaration of war. I think we're just going to kill people that are bringing drugs into our country. OK, we're going to kill them. You know, they're going to be like dead. OK.

15:09Piers Morgan:Now, that's strong words, but then he has literally just pardoned and released the former president of Honduras, Juan Orlando Hernandez, who in 2024, just last year, was found guilty of conspiring to import cocaine to the United States and sentenced to 45 years in prison. There'll be many people looking at that going, hang on, how does that work? it's uh from what i can tell and from what i've seen as far as that release uh he's basically saying that it was a political motivated arrest and that he was framed for for those crimes by the past administration the veracity of that is it's it's beyond me if that is a true statement it or not.

15:54His threats of death, his threats of killing people that are going to cross drugs into the United States is something that I have to tell you, Pierce. It resonates a lot with people that have been the victims of these substances and in these criminal organizations on many parts of the continent, myself included. These criminal organizations have taken over vast amounts of territory, become governors and government in some of the places they control and the effects of this. I mean, I grew up on the streets of Tijuana and I went from there to go into places like Portland and seeing some of the effects of some of these substances and how it consumes people.

16:39Not even that. I have friends who had kids 17, 16, who just took some drugs at a party and didn't wake up. I understand some of the anger and some of the feelings around some of these substances and some of the people that voted and got the president to the White House and why this is such a motivating topic for the populace. Now, this designation and how it's being utilized and the scope of it, I think, is what people are now kind of backing up a bit and trying to see if it's actually feasible or not to be utilizing this designation to continue on with these efforts. I have a feeling that this is going to continue on, and I think whatever happens in Venezuela is going to be a template for further actions in other parts of the continent.

17:36Piers Morgan:Do you think it is more likely than not that the US will invade Venezuela? I think the pressure right now is to make Maduro reach a deal and extract himself from Venezuela. I'm expecting a plane flying out of Venezuela, landing in Russia at any time, Syria-style, any day now. Hopefully, that is where we're headed. Speaking to people that know more about military inventions than I do, Venezuela is going to be a very difficult thing to hold and to control if the regime falls and turns into a guerrilla force. We must understand that the Venezuelan military is one thing, but also there's a bunch of guerrilla forces in and around Venezuela that are aligned with the regime that will basically take up arms against whoever stays in power.

18:36And we're going to be looking at another Afghanistan or another Iraq as far as the battle not being concluded when the invasion concludes, but when the death toll rises from trying to hold that space. And that's not even taking into account the mass amount of humanity that is already struggling with things like potable water or food in some of these regions by the regime's complete mishandling of everything when it comes to governments. so now add on to that the war aspect and I think we're in for some pretty horrible humanitarian crisis hopefully Maduro and his family jump on a plane with a bunch of gold bricks like a lot of people that have followed his suit and why to Russia or China whoever takes him yeah

19:35Piers Morgan:Let's hope that he sees sense. It could get very messy. Ed Caldwell, thank you very much indeed for joining me. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Today's show is sponsored by Oxford Natural, makers of the Optimum Day and Optimum Night all-natural supplements. Thousands of Brits and Americans are already taking them with incredible results. Optimum Day boosts your energy and supports weight loss throughout the day. Optimum Night helps you relax and get deep, refreshing sleep. They have countless success stories, including from some very familiar faces. England legend Michael Owen, who lost£40.

20:10Piers Morgan:AFTV's Robby, who lost more than£100. To watch their full stories and many more, scan the QR code on your screen or visit oxfordnatural.com slash peers. And here's the best part. Use the code peers and get 70 % off your first order. Get 70 % off with the code peers. Christmas is peak time for online shopping sprees, but that also means it's peak time for hackers and data brokers who steal your information online. The solution is very simple. Use ExpressVPN to shut them down. Top-tier encryption keeps your activity hidden, even on dodgy public Wi-Fi, which is perfect for holiday travel. You can set your location to 105 different countries, which lets you access content from all over the world.

20:56Piers Morgan:Users save hundreds on streaming and even plane tickets with ExpressVPN, all for$3.49 a month. It's a no-brainer. I use it, and you should too. Right now, you can get an extra four months of ExpressVPN if you go to expressvpn.com slash peers. That's ExpressVPN's lowest price ever, plus four extra months of service. Just scan the QR code on the screen or go to expressvpn.com slash peers. From plotting to lace Fidel Castro's diving suit with poison fungus to the execution of Che Guevara, The CIA has a long and troubled history of meddling in the countries south of its own border, especially when socialists are involved.

21:38Piers Morgan:President Trump says he's authorised secret CIA missions inside Venezuela, along with a not-so-secret massing of naval forces in the Caribbean Sea. But here's a view on what's going on and why. I'm joined by the former CIA officer and whistleblower, John Kiriakou. John, welcome back to Uncensored. Thank you so much for having me. It's always a pleasure. So what's going on here? Is the U.S. using the obviously genuine threat of drug cartels bringing drugs into the United States via these boats as an excuse for regime change? And if so, why? I think probably yes, which I think also is unfortunate because, you know, there are legitimate reasons to put pressure on the likes of Nicolas Maduro.

22:25But you don't have to threaten invasion to do that. I think that what we're seeing here is a multifaceted program. First of all, the U.S. has a very, very long history, of course, going back to the Monroe Doctrine in Latin America. Much of that history has been very ugly. We could sit here and talk for hours about the United Fruit Company, for example, and the overthrow of a democratically elected government in Guatemala. We could talk about military dictatorships in South America as recently as the 1980s. But this is unusual because we've never used drugs as a reason to institute regime change.

23:10Let's put it that way. I think that's only a part of it, though, Pierce. I think that there's a bigger picture issue at play here, and that is China's influence in Latin America. Look at it this way. The Venezuelans are sitting on an ocean of oil. That oil happens to be very dirty. It's very, very high in sulfur. And for many decades, the only place where that oil could be refined properly was at refineries in southern Texas. Well, now the Chinese are building a refinery in the Caribbean, and the Chinese will be willing and able to refine high sulfur Venezuelan oil. Perhaps this is a way to keep the Chinese out of the Caribbean, to keep the Chinese out of Venezuela.

23:56Certainly, having a regime change operation successful in Venezuela would make the Colombian military very happy. And then at the same time, you can say you're doing it in order to stop the flow of drugs, even if that's not really the case.