"Genius-Level REPTILE!" Gabor Mate vs Gad Saad On Elon Musk, Grooming Gangs & Migration

25:23Piers Morgan:Yeah, and my issue with that is it's how you interpret it, you know, and that's my issue. I have a lot of Muslim friends of mine who say the issue is extremist twists the language of the Quran to suit their nefarious intent. And there's a long illustrious history of people doing that with religious people do it with the bible you know we've had christian extremists and nutcases using some of the very violent rhetoric of the bible to justify what they do what's the difference well the difference is that christianity went through the light of reformation regrettably islamic doctrines have not there have been 1400 years of attempts of Muslim scholars trying to incorporate interpretive reformation into Islam.

26:12You really can't do it canonically because in Islam, it is the final, inerrant, unchangeable word of Allah. So the likelihood of having the light of reformation come into Islamic doctrines is simply lesser than in Christianity.

26:30Piers Morgan:Let's just end with two. One slight tangential subject, one completely nothing to do with it. The Iran deal, which may or may not have been signed by the time we air this interview, but regardless, it just seems to most observers that Donald Trump has got himself into something that he just is desperate to get out of. and that he was persuaded about the merits of attacking Iran by Benjamin Netanyahu, who may have been working to a different agenda as the Prime Minister of Israel. What is your view of that? And obviously Israel's been killing a lot of civilians in Lebanon, going after Hezbollah.

27:12Piers Morgan:You grew up in Beirut. You've talked about some of the experiences your family had. What do you view about what Israel has been doing and about where we are with the Iran war? Well, I don't know yet anything about the Iran deal, the specifics. As you said, we don't know what those are. I think in a holistic sense, if we were able, we meaning the West in general or America in particular, if we were able to get rid of the existing regime in Iran, first it would free 90 million Iranians, most of whom are quite modern, most of whom are quite secular, most of whom are quite educated. we'd be freeing them from the shackles of 47 years of theocracy.

27:55So if one had empathy towards the Iranian people, you would say, go, go, go. Let's free this beautiful Persian culture. So that would be my first statement. Regarding of what Israel is doing in attacking, are you saying now attacking Hezbollah in Lebanon? Is that what you're asking?

28:13Piers Morgan:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, I don't know the specific numbers of how many civilians have died in those attacks, but the general idea of getting rid of all of these proxies of Iran will only lead to greater stability in the Middle East. And so, inshallah, hopefully when this regime falls, we will have a much brighter future in the region. Of course, it could play out another way, which is, as we're already seeing evidentially from American intelligence in Gaza, that for all the Hamas terrorists have been killed, five people have gravitated to the ideology because they're so appalled by what's been done in Gaza.

28:53Piers Morgan:if that was to extrapolate across the region with everywhere else that Israel has gone after these terror groups. Because as Donald Trump himself said, you don't need to take down an apartment block to kill a Hezbollah terrorist. And if you keep doing that, you are going to create more enemies potentially. So your hope, your aspiration that all of this bombing is going to lead to Israel being safer and Israelis being safer, I'm not convinced by that at all. I think part of the problem has been the massively disproportionate way that this Israeli government has gone about its business. And I'm genuinely concerned about what that means for the security of Israel, of Israelis and of Jews worldwide.

29:36Piers Morgan:I think we're already seeing the downside of this strategy. So, look, you know, time will tell. History will show us. But do you think that, obviously, if Trump is going to pull out of this, can you see a situation where Netanyahu goes it alone against Iran? I mean, I suppose I could. And I should also mention that I don't know if you hinted at that in your earlier question. Many people think that Donald Trump, for all of his power and strong personhood, somehow loses all of his personal agency and becomes a helpless puppet of Netanyahu when Netanyahu tells him do A or do B. or do be. No, I don't think it was that.

30:22Piers Morgan:I don't think Netanyahu told... I don't think it's that. It's just that everybody knows, from what Antony Blinken and Hillary Clinton and others have now said, that Netanyahu tried to persuade a series of American presidents to do this, and they all said no. And the only one who said yes was Trump. And the New York Times had a big, deep-dive feature on all this, very well sourced, and inside the White House Situation Room. And what is clear is that Donald Trump believed Netanyahu's prediction of what would happen. And the tragedy of all this is it all turned out to be untrue. Had it led to a very speedy overthrowing of a terrible regime with the people uprising and seizing back control of their country and the end of the IRGC and the Strait of Hormuz have been left alone, as Netanyahu said would happen, I think many more people would have been supportive.

31:12Piers Morgan:But actually the opposite has happened. and ended up in a position where the Iranian regime now knows all it has to do is shut up the Strait of Hormuz and fire a few missiles at the Gulf states, and they have the cards. So if you were doing a forensic accounting of the net either success or failure of this war, you would put it as that it's been an abject failure more than a success? Well, I'd certainly say a failure. If the mission was to stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons, I don't see how anyone can say with any confidence anything's changed from when Obama got the same wordy guarantees about that issue as Trump is apparently getting in his deal.

31:55Piers Morgan:Plus, if it's true that the Iranian regime is going to get$300 billion to rehabilitate and rebuild itself, well, why would we trust them not to spend all that on all the missiles and weaponry that have been destroyed militarily? So I just think I'm really struggling to see where the win is. And in fact, when it comes to the failure, the failure to understand the importance of a Strait of Hormuz and just how easy it would be for Iran to paralyze the global energy economy market in the way that it has done, I think was an abject failure of intelligence and strategic military planning. And then when you add in the attacks on the Gulf states with just a few drones and the mayhem that caused, then I think that that, again, has been a failure of predicting what may happen and what the response would be if it did.

32:44Piers Morgan:So I'm afraid all I see is the same regime in place, the Ayatollah replaced by his son, who's even more hardline, and saw half his family killed, so will hate everyone even more than his father did. The IRGC still in control. No popular uprising whatsoever. and now the Iranian regime has the Strait of Hormuz as the most effective weapon it could possibly imagine that it didn't know it had, and may start charging a toll to use it, which it wasn't before. If that is a victory, Gad Saad, my friend, then I've got a second-hand card to sell you. I have a slightly different take, but I will defer to your expertise.

33:26Piers Morgan:Gad Saad, it's always good to talk to you. Although, finally, my final point, the World Cup, Apparently, you heard saying on X, I think in response to something I may have said, that Messi might be the proof that God exists. Yeah. Messi's turning me from an atheist to a believer.

33:45Piers Morgan:Listen, Messi, when he scored his brilliant hat trick, and it was a brilliant hat trick, he should have been sent off before he scored any of them for a brutal assault on one of the defenders of the opposition. So I don't know whether God got involved in that, but if he did, it might be time for a review of your beliefs. One thing is for sure, Pierce, you're a loyal guy. Your love for Ronaldo is only beaten by the love of my mother towards yours truly.

34:20Piers Morgan:Gadsen, great to have you on our sensor. Thank you very much. Thank you, sir. Take care. Bye. Well, listening to all that, as I said, was physician, author and trauma expert Dr Gabor Marte, who rejoins me on Uncensored. Dr Marte, thank you very much for coming back on Uncensored. It's a pleasure. Thanks for inviting me back. You were listening there to Gad Saad. Notably, he did not want to engage with you in any kind of debate. What did you think of what he was saying there? Speaking of the World Cup, I don't know if you remember, you're probably too young maybe to remember Wembley Stadium in 1953 when the Hungarian team beat the British team at home 6-3.

35:03So at that time we had the best team in the World Cup. Ferenc Puskas, yeah. Ferenc Puskas. So I'm very much into the football world.

35:11Piers Morgan:I was actually, you know what, I was actually, Gabor, I was in the Ferenc Puskas Stadium in Budapest only two weeks ago for the European Champions League final because my team Arsenal were playing. So I was there. So I remember that 53 game. And Puskas was one of the great players to ever grace the game. So, yes, I'm very familiar. But apart from football pleasantries, there's an expression in Hungarian that says that something is so false that not even the opposite is true. And that's my response to Professor Saad. I'm going to mention three issues, okay? First of all, me as a survivor, if a one-year-old baby is rescued from a house fire, can you not say that he's a survivor of a house fire?

36:04That's the first one. Yeah, of course. So it's ridiculous what he says, number one. Number two, he's absolutely right. I don't have explicit memories. I can't because the part of the brain that codes explicit memory, episodic memory, doesn't develop to two or three years of age. But there's another memory system called the implicit memory system, which he knows nothing about. But you kind of addressed it, that the emotional memories are imprinted in the nervous system, not just from one year on, but even from in the womb. and my emotional memory is of terror and fear and abandonment and so when he says that doesn't live in my memory sure it does and it still shows up decades later in my emotions and my behavior that's the nature of trauma and he's right about one thing the fact that and by the way I've never said that I'm a survivor I've always said I was an infant survivor but that does not make me an expert on the middle east and the fact that i'm an infant survivor of the nazi genocide does not give me any does not make me an authority on israeli politics or palestinian israeli issues there are no authorities there are points of view and there's ideologies and there's way of understanding but you know if there's lots of holocaust survivors who totally support what Israel does, and plenty who don't, but neither can claim that their survivorship gives them authority.

37:41So that I agree with. When it comes to, when he talks about my work, he's never read my work. He doesn't understand it. He mentioned his book, if I may mention mine, The Myth of Normal, Trauma, Illness, and Healing in a Toxic Culture, which is a Sunday Times bestseller and a New York Times bestseller published in 45 different countries. That book has been endorsed by scientists and physicians and psychotherapists and many other people. So if he says, I got no authority, I got no support, I have no credibility, he just doesn't know what he's talking about, number one, number two. And so I just make that point.

38:20As regards what he said about my work, about trauma, addiction, diseases, yes, I've made the case based on multiple scientific studies and scientific papers published internationally, and I cite a large number of them that make the case that early experiences do a lot to shape one's physiology, one's psychology, one's brain, and so that early experiences are a huge contributor to pathology later on. That's just a scientific argument. He doesn't know what he's talking about. He hasn't looked at that argument. He hasn't looked at my, the research that I...

39:02Piers Morgan:Well, I know you're right. I know you're right because I've interviewed, I don't know, maybe 3 ,000 or more people in my career in over 40 years. And I'm talking about everybody from, you know, American presidents to Nelson Mandela, to celebrities, to whatever it may be, right? Ordinary members of the public. And the one absolute constant is that stuff that happened in their childhood played a clear formative part in their adult life. Whoever they were and whatever the experience was, you are, I absolutely believe, you're a product of your environment. Yes. Now, there's a couple of specific points that he said.

39:43We talk about Muslim gangsterism and gangs and so on. Has he heard about what used to be called the kosher Nostra, the Jewish gangs in New York in the 1920s and the 30s, people like Bugsy Sewell, Meyer Lansky, Arnold Ronststein, and a whole gang of murderous gangsters. These were Jews.

40:05Piers Morgan:Well, I would go further. I would say the behaviour of people like Ben Gavir and Smodrich in encouraging the aggressive expansion of settlements in the West Bank with the appalling violence that's going on right in front of our eyes in clear contravention of all international law, in its own way, that is just as reprehensible. And yet he doesn't see the need to condemn that. Well, thank you. You're anticipating something I was going to say. But the point I was going to make is, it's not that Jews are by nature gangsters. Let's look at the sociological conditions, the historical conditions, that in the newly immigrant population in New York turned some Jews into criminals.

40:51And so that's a historical, sociological, not a religious question. And the same thing is true of whatever criminality is expressed, manifested by various immigrants from the far flung reaches of the former British Empire. Let's look at it sociologically and historically. Let's not make a racial or religious issue out of it. That's what I would say to Professor Saad. And then to come to the next point, which is what you just raised, if we're going to talk about Allah decreeing certain things that Muslims are allowed to do, who is claiming divine authority for the oppression, mass murder, mass torture, dispossession, the torture of children?

41:43and he talked about children. Who's torturing children in jail? And when he says that I make claims about Israel that I have no authority to make, I don't make any claims at all. I'm simply quoting Israeli historians and authorities. So when he talks about how I talk about the idea of being like the Nazis, I didn't say that. Israeli soldiers have said it. Israeli generals have said it. Israel journalists have said that we're behaving in the West Bank just like the Nazis behave. I didn't say that. I'm just quoting them. So for him to personalize me and to have he's got this bean, this bonnet about myself and my family.

42:26Why does he personalize it to me? Why does he not address the Israeli scholars, the two Hebrew University Jewish scholars of genocide who said. there's no Auschwitz in Gaza, but there's genocide in Gaza. This is Israeli Jewish culture of the Holocaust. Let Professor Sartre go argue with them, not with me. I'm just quoting them. I agree with them, but why does he personalise it to me? That's a good reason he doesn't want to debate with me, because he couldn't.

42:57Piers Morgan:Well, I just think if you are going to attack somebody in your book, and I've told him you're sitting there watching this interview, I think he should debate. he should at least talk to you about what he said about you in the book. And when you duck a debate like that, it's like, okay, then you're almost firing from the rooftops, but don't want to engage in hand-to-hand combat. And I think there's something not as honourable about that. Well, he keeps doing this. He talked about, he gave a talk in Tel Aviv where he mentioned me. He gave a talk in Montreal recently when he mentioned me. He's got some kind of a fixation.

43:32But you know what? That's as much as I want to say about him. Because to me...

43:38Piers Morgan:What do you think, Gabor, about the premise of his book about this idea of suicidal empathy as a concept? Yeah, I'm really happy to discuss that. Actually, in my book, The Myth of Normal, that I just showed you, there is a chapter on what we call human nature. And every society has a kind of conception of human nature, which largely mirrors its own practices, beliefs, and ideologies. So if you actually look at evolution, how do human beings evolve? Human beings have been on Earth for millions of years, some types of human beings, hominins. Our own species, Homo sapiens, we've been here about 150 ,000, 200 ,000 years.

44:27Now, for most of that time, we lived in communal groups, collaborative groups but people looked after each other and caring was the most important dynamic and we thought that we would not have survived so essential nature is to care and now if you look at it from the point of view of neuroscience there's a great neuroscientist unfortunately died before his time Estonian American his name is Dr. Yak Panksepp and he studied the human emotional system in the brain and he found that we share with other mammals seven major emotional systems in the brain that were wired for it by evolution. Professor Selle claims to be an evolutionary psychologist.

45:16I'm not going to question his claims but he doesn't seem to know much about evolutionary psychology because one of the most important circuits in the brain is for caring, caring, and the specific neuro, neurochemicals, hormones, and brain circuits dedicated to caring, because without that, there'd be no human life. So that, um, that's just who we are as creatures. Now, when he talks about suicidal empathy, um, he's kind of, and the West is so suicidal, empathetic, let's, and all these immigrants and so on. Let's look at history. Who was it, the Muslims that came to England to attack England? Or was it England that went into India and into the Arab world and into Africa

46:10and appropriated and actually killed a lot of Muslims in order to appropriate their goods and their resources? Going back a little bit further, talk about immigration. in the American Declaration of Independence, which is being celebrated, the 250th anniversary, in a couple of weeks, it ends with one of the complaints of the colonialists against the British crown. And one of the complaints is that you don't protect us from the merciless and savage natives. So the people that they committed genocide against, the indigenous people of North America, were seen as merciless savages by these immigrants.

46:51So that, when did the history begin? When did the history begin? If you look at all the colonial countries, New Zealand, Canada, the United States, Australia, elsewhere, what you've had is immigrants coming from Western Europe, brutally massacring, expropriating, torturing, raping the local population. And he talks about the West as suicidally empathetic. What on earth is he talking about? So, no, I'm not, all I'm saying is there's history. And it's always a question of what date do you arbitrarily decide that history begins? And you know what? Right now I'm reading the histories of Herodotus about the Persian-Greek war.

47:47This stuff goes back a long time. History did not begin on October the 7th. It didn't begin on any particular date. And so that for professors to look at the present situation and look at these troubled immigrants coming to the West, where are they coming from? They're coming from countries that the West has destroyed. So all I'm asking is let's apply the same standards to everybody. and rather than condemn, let's try to understand what are the forces that make people behave in certain ways and what are the mitigating factors that may make them behave differently. That's what we need to be asking, not condemning either on religious or racial grounds any one particular people.

48:29Jews are no better or worse than anybody else. Muslims are no better or worse than anybody else. The British are no better or worse than anybody else. It's all a matter of historical circumstance.

48:40Piers Morgan:We've just seen Elon Musk become the first ever trillionaire in the history of planet Earth. He's on the record as saying that empathy is a weakness. You've often discussed Musk as a kind of prime example of unresolved childhood trauma. And the question I've got for you about that is, can it work both ways? I mean, does a childhood trauma of any kind, Can it propel you to overachievement, as we've seen with Musk with his businesses, whilst at the same time, you know, he often shows another side to himself, which is more problematic? Well, first of all, it's not a surprise that the world's first trillionaire would endorse a book that speaks against empathy, you know.

49:28But look, yeah, I mean, I don't have to look at Elon Musk. I can look at myself. I used to be a workaholic doctor. I was very successful as a physician. I worked all the time, ignored my own emotional needs, my needs of the family, of my family. And I write about that in my books about how, you know, I was kind of a driven person. So if you asked me, why did you go into medicine? I would have very honestly have told you that because I want to help humanity. And that would have been true. I also would have been told you that I want a profession which secures me a decent standard of living. That would have been true.

50:04But there was a hidden dynamic I didn't recognize, which I see in Trump and I see it in Musk and I see it in so many other people, which is the need to feel important. Now, the need to feel important and to be seen and recognized is essential need of the human child. The message I got from the world, and I'm sure that's the message that Musk got from the world as well, is that you're not wanted, you're not important. and if that's the message that you unconsciously imbibe absorb as a young child i mean my mother gave me to a stranger when i was 11 months of age to save my life well it did save my life it was an act of incredible sacrifice on her part but how do i experience it i experience it i'm not wanted i'm not lovable i'm not important that's the only way i can interpret it and so if you're not wanted you know what you go to you know what you do i've said this often if you don't believe you wanted unconsciously go to medical school then they're going to want you all the time they're going to want you when they're dying when they're being born and every crisis in between so that early trauma can drive achievement but at what cost and uh and i would say the same thing about many other high achievers is that yeah they've done amazing things and musk is obviously a genius of some sort but you know what there's a wonderful american writer joseph children peers who said that well i'm saying a lot here but we have three actually three brains in a certain sense we have the cerebrum up here we have a kind of a nervous system in the heart which is studied by the science of neurocardiology and we have a knowledge in the gut because you have gut feelings that are essential for survival.

51:53So when the three are connected, we're grounded and we're empathetic and we're self-respecting. But as Joseph Chilton Pierce says, when we only are thinking up here, cut off from the heart and cut off from the gut, we're genius-level reptiles. And that's what Musk is, he's a genius-level reptile. And that's because of his childhood trauma. I'm sure. Right.

52:24Piers Morgan:Yeah, I think you may well be right. Listen, you're always welcome on this show, Gabor Marti, that is for sure. Thank you very much indeed for taking the time to talk to me. My great pleasure. Thank you, Piers. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.