"Give Me A F****** BREAK!" Tom Homan On Immigration | With Benny Johnson & Geraldo Rivera

20:45Tom Homan:Just in New York City two months ago, I stood on stage with Mayor Adams where we took 27 TDA members off the street through a RICO investigation I'M MUNTER-LAWNDERING, SEX TRAFFICKING, HUMAN TRAFFICKING, AND VARIOUS OTHER CRIMES. SO IT ISN'T A COINCIDENCE THAT TENS OF THOUSAND VENTILLE AND WAYLAND GANG MEMBERS ENTERED THIS COUNTRY AND COMMITTED THESE ADVANCE ACROSS ALL THE MAJOR CITIES IN THIS COUNTRY. WE BELIEVE, AND AGAIN, BASED ON TELL US REPORTS AND F.P.I. TELL US REPORTS, THAT THIS WAS A PREDATORY INCURSION MEANT AND IMPLEMENTED BY THE MADURO REGIME. AND WE 'LL WIN THIS IN COURT. I think the facts are clear on this.

21:22Piers Morgan:The other ruling at the weekend was a judge blocking deportation of Guatemalan children, temporarily blocking an attempt again by the Trump administration to deport dozens of unaccompanied Guatemalan children back to their home country. The judge says in response to reports that children had been put on planes and were about to be sent to Guatemala, the lawyers had argued they would then be at risk of abuse and persecution. I mean, that's a very different case.

21:52Tom Homan:Abuse and persecution by their parents? Because, you know, you've seen the media, you know, the hit pieces on me. Tom Holman, you know, was involved with the family separation under Trump's 45. Meanwhile, yeah, 2 ,500 families were separated because the adult went to jail. And that happens thousands of times a day to American parents across this country. And they commit a crime, and they have a child with them. The child can't go to jail with them if they get separated. It's sad. It's unfortunate. They want to continue to attack us on these 2 ,500 separations, which happens to American families every day.

22:24Tom Homan:But so they call that family separation. I've heard that a thousand times. Meanwhile, a half a million children were smuggled across the country under a Biden administration, separated from their families, put in the hands of criminal cartels. So God knows what happened to them during that journey. They released some unvetted sponsors. They lost track of 300 ,000 of them. Who's saving these children? President Trump is. We've already found over 25 ,000 of these children. Some were safe. Many were safe. But some were in sex trafficking, some were in forced labor trafficking. President Trump is fining the children that the Biden administration ignored.

22:59Tom Homan:So we're trying to keep families together. So we have a group of Guatemalan children that want to go home to their parents who live in Guatemala. The Guatemalan parents want their children to come home. And the people that called us terrible for family separation, now who's separating families? THEY DON'T WANT THE CHILDREN TO GO HOME TO BE REUNITED WITH THE PARENTS. WE MADE A DEAL WITH THE GUALAMALANCE GOVERNMENT. THE PARENTS WANT THE CHILDREN WANT TO GO HOME TO MOM AND DAD. AND THEY'RE SAYING THEY'RE GOING TO PUT IN DANGER? WELL, THEIR PARENTS ARE LIVING IN GUATAMALA. THEY'RE OBVIOUSLY NOT ESCAPING FEAR AND PERSECUTION.

23:30Tom Homan:THEY'RE NOT MAKING A CLAIM. THEY WANT TO GO HOME TO THEIR FAMILY. SO HOW CAN IT BE FEAR AND DANGEROUS TO GO HOME TO THEIR MOM AND DAD, FOR GOD'S SAKE? It's ridiculous ruling by an activist judge, we will win this on appeal, because we are trying to keep families together on this. And it's just ridiculous that any judge or any organisation don't want children with their parents.

23:49Piers Morgan:One of the criticisms of you, Tom Holman, just historically, has been that you have been accused of... It may not even be an accusation, it might just be just a matter of fact. That you believe that separating children from parents can be a very effective deterrent to others. I mean, do you accept... I mean, is that a criticism you accept? Do you think it's something... Is it something you're quite happy to say? Yeah, I do believe that.

24:20Tom Homan:Well, it's taken out of context. Here's what I said. During the Trump administration, again, here's a guy who spent a career on the border. Children were dying every day. Children being sexually assaulted every day. Women being raped every day. During the Trump administration, we said, look, all the terrible things we see on the border, let's start prosecuting these people for entering the country legally, which is a crime, and putting their children in danger. What we are trying to do is save lives. We're trying to stop women and children being sexually assaulted by members of the cartel during that journey.

24:58Tom Homan:So we implemented zero tolerance policy. The same thing police departments do on zero tolerance for DUI on holiday weekend, zero tolerance on prostitution during a time period, zero tolerance on gun violence. We said, let's do zero tolerance to start prosecuting people and maybe less people come and put themselves in harm's way. And guess what? Within three weeks, border crossing dropped 25 percent. Now, unfortunately, a part of that was, again, a child can't go to jail with a parent. So there was some separations. What I said back then is, is that if we start prosecuting people, maybe they stop coming because no one wants to be separated from the parents.

25:35Tom Homan:I don't want to be separated from my children. So it was taken out of context. That was the meaning of it. The whole zero tolerance policy was to save lives. And again, for the people that question that, wear my shoes for 40 years and see what I've seen on that southern border. Illegal immigration is not a victimist crime. There's a whole ugly belly of this stuff that just is tragic, and that's what we're trying to do, save lives, stop sexual assaults on the border.

26:01Piers Morgan:You've talked a lot about the fact you've done this a long time and you've seen a lot of terrible things. That must take a toll on you as a human being. You always put up a pretty tough exterior, but I've seen you get quite emotional in several interviews when you've talked about particularly children who've been around the same age as your own who've obviously endured horrific things. On a human level, what's it done to you, this, the four decades of doing this work?

26:29Tom Homan:Look, I've seen some things on the border that I still, you know, have nightmares about, you know? And, look, I'm honest with people. After, you know, the investigation where I got called to a crime scene and I'm looking... I'm standing on back a tractor trailer with 19 people who begged to death, understanding, based on all the investigation I've done, how these people suffered, right? They begged to death. And during the investigation, the five-year-old boy who died, and his father died on top of him, begged his father, don't let me die, Daddy. I want to see Mommy again. I want to see my brothers and sisters.

27:07Tom Homan:It's just, at that moment, I admit, changed me. It hardened me because I knew we can stop this. I knew that if we have strong border enforcement and had consequences, less people will put themselves in harm's way. And again, I literally just got on my knees and talked to a nine-year-old little girl who was raped multiple times by the cartels. I used to not be able to talk about what busts them down. But when you look in that little girl's eyes, especially when you're a father and you raise children, everything innocent and pure, that's been ripped from her. Her life will never be normal. and what she went through.

27:44Tom Homan:It's just, it's so heartbreaking and disgusting on every level. It makes you really drive to have a secure border because the last four years on Joe Biden, and I've said this many times, I mean it. Every day I woke up and I got pissed off because I wondered how many women got raped last night with this open border. How many children got sexually assaulted? How many people died making that journey? How many children drowned in that river, right? I 'VE SEEN BORBETROLATIONS GIVE CPR TO A SIX-MONTH-OLD BABY. I KNOW THE STORY OF A FAMILY OF THREE PEOPLE FROM AN AFRICAN NATION WHO CROSSED THE BORDER AND THE CARTELS, THEY HAD THEM IN THE BOAT AND THEY THREW THEM OUT OF THE BOAT WHEN THE BORBETROL APPROACHED.

28:28Tom Homan:THEY KNEW THE BORBETROLATION WOULD JUMP IN THE RIVER TO TRY TO SAVE THESE THREE SO THEY CAN GET AWAY. AND THAT LITTLE GIRL WHO WAS 18 MONTHS OLD, THEY COULDN'T SAVE HER. She later died on the way to the hospital. And during post-mortem, 18-month-old baby, sexually assaulted by members of the cartel. And the post-mortem showed that. So when you've seen the things I've seen, yeah, it makes you pissed off, makes you want to have a secure border. So for four years, I woke up every day knowing that this open border is killing people. So I am honored to work for who I think is one of the greatest presidents in history when it comes to border security and law enforcement and the military.

29:07Tom Homan:because 96 % less people come, we're saving 1 ,000 lives every day. So, yeah, I get emotional. If anybody, any human being that saw the things I saw would get emotional. And I tell you what, after that incident with 19 people that were dead at my feet, including that five-year-old boy, I did go seek help because I couldn't sleep. And it really affected me. But I think it's because I was a father. I had a five-year-old son at the time. And, you know, and that's just one of many. I CAN SIT OR TALK TO YOU FOR THE NEXT THREE HOURS ON THE TERRIBLE THINGS I 'VE SEEN. AND, YEAH, IT SHAPES YOU. I STILL, I 'LL NEVER FORGET ABOUT IT.

29:42Tom Homan:AND THAT'S WHY I FIGHT SO HARD. AND THAT'S WHY I SUPPORT PRESIDENT TRUMP FIGHTING SO HARD. YOU SECURE THAT BORDER, YOU SAVE LIVES. WHEN YOU HAVE A STRONG INTERN ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM GOING ON, THAT SENSE OF MESSAGE PEOPLE DON'T MAKE THAT JOURNEY. TO THE MOST VULNERABLE PEOPLE UNDER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, WHEN YOU SAY YOU CAN CROSS THE WE 'LL GIVE YOU A FREE HOTEL ROOM. WE 'LL GIVE YOU A FREE HOTEL ROOM. WE 'LL GIVE YOU A FREE HOTEL ROOM. WE 'LL GIVE YOU FREE MEDICAL CARE. AND IN 90, 120 DAYS WE 'LL GIVE YOU WORK OFF. YOU MAKE THAT PROMISES TO THE WHOLE WORLD, THE WHOLE WORLD IS GOING TO COME.

30:16Tom Homan:THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED. SO MANY PEOPLE DIED. BOTH AMERICANS AND ALL THE TERRIBLE THINGS HAPPENED. PEOPLE NEED TO REMEMBER ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS NOT A VICTIM OF CRIME. So when people think, oh, this guy just, he's just here illegally, he's trying to support his family. If that's the message you want to continue sending to the rest of the world, more people are going to die, more men are going to get raped. It's just, we got to be a nation of laws. There's a right way and wrong way to come to the greatest nation. Let's do it the right way. And if people, again, I want to reiterate this, people don't like what ICE is doing.

30:46Tom Homan:Protest Congress, not ICE, because ICE is doing the job. They took an oath to enforce. And by doing so, they're saving thousands of lives and making this country safe again, one illegal alien criminal at a time. Again, 70 % of everybody ICE arrests is a criminal public safety threat. The arrests are either national security threats or fugitives. So ICE is doing exactly what they're doing. Our prioritization of criminals is higher than the Biden administration. Even though they said they're just going to concentrate on criminals, look how many criminals they arrested and removed public safety threats compared to what President Trump done already.

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31:46Piers Morgan:This attention that you've brought on yourself by being so front and centre stage on all this this year, I've read that it's attracted a lot of threats against you, potentially endangering your family and so on. How have you dealt with that aspect of it, that you're the front man? There are lots of people who have been cheering you on. I see it every day on social media. Many Americans who love what you're doing, think this is exactly the tough message that has to be communicated and is demonstrably working on places like the southern border. But there are many other people that hate you for what you're doing, as you know.

32:22Piers Morgan:What impact has that had in terms of your own security, the family, and so on?

32:27Tom Homan:I wish that most of the people who hate me knew what I knew. I wish they'd hear this conversation. I hope your followers hear this conversation. Because they need to understand there's a reason this needs to be done. And I think I've hit some of those points. YOU CAN GO ON FOR HOURS ON THIS, BUT I THINK THEY NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT I KNOW. THEY NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE FACTS OF WHAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW REALLY ARE, RATHER THAN WHAT THE MEDIA IS SAYING. I READ A STORY THE OTHER DAY SAYING, YOU KNOW, ONLY 1 % OF CRIMINALS DEPORTED BY PRESIDENT TRUMP ARE MURDERERS. REALLY? THAT'S A LEVEL NOW? YOU GOT TO COMMIT A MURDER TO BE DEPORTED FROM THE COUNTRY?

33:01Tom Homan:THERE'S NOTHING IN IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY ACT THAT YOU GOT TO COMMIT YET ANOTHER CRIME TO BE DEPORTED. HOWEVER, THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT HATE ME. And I'm not going to stop doing what I'm doing. I'm not going to stop saying what I'm saying. I'm going to continue working with this president because I know for a fact I wake up every day knowing we're saving thousands of lives. I know by every public safety threat and national security threat we're taking off the street makes this country safer. And yeah, there's consequences for me too, right? I have to have a security team now. And I had over 1 ,000 protesters at my one home.

33:37Tom Homan:I don't live with my wife right now. She's not staying in my home right now. She's at someplace else because of threats. But, you know, I guess it's a price you've got to pay. You know, President Trump's under threats, and ICE agents, God bless them. Attacks against them are up over 1 ,000%. We're in a place where I grew up. My dad was a cop. My grandfather was a cop. I always wanted to be a cop. And cops were respected. And they were revered as being the good guys. save a lot of lives and always there to run toward danger and everybody's running away. We're at a point now with the left where all of a sudden the ones who enforce the law are the bad guys, and they want to have 1 ,000 % increase on attacks on them.

34:22Tom Homan:But the ones who broke the law, they're the victims now. And it's just ridiculous. I think President Trump, what he's doing right now, is convince American people that the cops are the good guys. And the ones who break the law, there are going to be consequences.

34:33Piers Morgan:It's a tough thing, Tom, for you to say that you can't even live with your wife. I mean, that's a pretty startling thing to just come out with. You know, you're a married man who cannot live with his wife because of threats against you. Well, you know, I'm with her sometimes.

34:51Tom Homan:I, you know, get out of the beltway sometimes. And look, you know, again, it's unfortunate, but if they think they're going to intimidate me from stop doing what I'm doing, my wife's all in on this. I mean, you know, I took a huge pay cut coming back. She accepted that. She accepted the fact that I'm going to be back in D.C. when I had four years, you know, of doing really good things, working, you know, one of the things I did was work for Fox News, right? So she accepted the fact because she saw me for four years. She understood the toll it's taken on me because of my experience, because of my knowledge, knowing people are dying every day, children are being sexually assaulted every day, knowing inspector terrorists are crossing the border every day, Two million unknown gotaways.

35:34Tom Homan:Where do they come from? And why are they here? And where are they now? And I truly believe terrorists have crossed the border under Joe Biden. And we don't know where all of them are today. And I think there's something, something's brewing, something's going to happen. And I think I put a lot of blame on the Biden administration. So she saw my frustration. She knows my love of country. She knows of my experience in this issue that I needed to get back to put my mind at ease with President Trump to fix the problem. But you've got to remember, Joe Biden's the first president in the history of this nation who unsecured a border on purpose.

36:10Tom Homan:It wasn't mismanagement. It wasn't incompetence. They knew exactly what we were doing. Every president I worked for, I worked for six of them, starting with Ronald Reagan. Even Clinton Obama took steps to secure the border because they understood you can't have strong national security if you don't have strong border security. President, and no one did it better than President Trump, unprecedented success, Trump 45, record, you know, we had most secure border in the nation's history. Now we have, we even beat that number now with the data. Joe Biden's the first president in history of the nation who came into office and unsecured a border.

36:43And again, that affected me personally

36:46Tom Homan:because of things I knew were happening every day. So yeah, when he called me, I didn't hesitate to come back because I knew we could save lives and we can make this country safe again.

36:55Piers Morgan:Final question, Tom. President Trump's coming to the UK in three weeks for his second state visit, almost unprecedented second state visit. UK has a lot of its own immigration problems, not least this issue of all these small boats coming over from France onto the southern border and 50 ,000, 60 ,000 people coming in illegally. And it's causing a lot of unrest and anger amongst British people. Successive governments on all political sides have failed to deal with this problem. If you were trying to deal with that problem, specific problem of people coming over from the French coast on small boats to the British coast illegally, how would you stop it?

37:43Tom Homan:The biggest game-changer for us was ending catch and release. They want to enter the UK, illegally detain them. Vet them, find out exactly who these people are. And, you know, because you're going to find out some of these people are either public safety threats, not all of them. Some are, again, looking for a better life. And catch and release and just stop the invasion. Because I guarantee you a certain percentage of these people coming into the U.K. are public safety threats and national security threats. U.K.'s national security is under attack right now because you've got that many people coming to the country unvetted.

38:19Tom Homan:It's only a matter of time. So I hope they take a page out of President Trump's playbook and enforce your immigration law and don't release people in the country, especially if you don't know who they are. You don't have time to vet them. I mean, during our Biden, war ritualists didn't have time to go through pocket trash to gather intelligence. They weren't properly vetted through criminal databases. Here's what UK needs to understand that we quickly understood. You can try to vet people and run criminal history, find they're a dangerous person, but most countries in this world don't have an NCIC like we do or like UK criminal system.

38:54Tom Homan:A lot of these countries, we don't know what their criminal history is because they don't have systems like that in place. And a lot of terrorists in this world, you can't find in any database. DATABASE. BECAUSE UNLESS THEY'RE A PART OF A TITLE THREE TERRIST INVESTIGATION, THEY'RE CAUGHT ON SOME SORT OF WIRE TRANSIT OR UNLESS THEY'RE ENCOUNTERED ON A BATTLEFIELD AND DOD DID A RETINA SCAN OR SOMETHING, MOST TERRORISTS IN THIS WORLD AREN'T IN ANY DATABASE. SO THAT'S WHY IMPORTANT YOU HAVE A SECURE BORDER. SO I TAKE A PAGE OUT OF THE TRUMP HANDBOOK AND MAKE THEIR COUNTRY SECURE AGAIN BECAUSE IT'S ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE SOMETHING TERRIBLE IS GOING TO HAPPEN BECAUSE THEY HAVE LAX immigration standards.

39:34Piers Morgan:Tom Oman, thank you very much indeed for giving me so much time on Uncensored. Great to have you on. I hope you come back again. Thank you.

39:40Tom Homan:Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

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43:14Piers Morgan:Geraldo, let me start with you. You know, I've never spoken to Tom Homan. I think he's a very impressive advocate for what he does. It's not making him universally popular. It is with a lot of people, but a lot of people don't like some of the stuff he's been doing. But what did you make of his arguments? Well, let me get first to the character of the man. I have no problem with Tom Homan's patriotism. I believe that he is sincere in his goals and he is working, he thinks, in his own mind for his country. The question I have to start, though, Piers, is if what he is doing is so noble, if what he is doing is so necessary for the fate of our republic, the United States, then why do his ICE agents wear masks?

44:07Sheriffs don't wear masks. Troopers don't wear masks. FBI don't wear masks. CAUGHT OFFICERS, NO ONE, NO ONE IN LAW ENFORCEMENT. COPS CERTAINLY DO NOT WEAR MASKS. IF HE IS SO DOING GOD'S WORK, DOING THE RIGHT THING, THE RIGHT THING, THEN WHY DO THEY SKUNK AROUND, ANONYMOUS, GRABBING PEOPLE ON THE STREET? AND I APPLAUD WHAT THEY DID ON THE BORDER. I SUPPORT THE BORDER. I DON'T, YOU CAN'T HAVE A NATION WITHOUT SECURE BORDERS AS THE U.K. IS NOW SUFFERING THROUGH THIS REALITY. BUT TO DENY THAT WHAT HE'S DOING IS DEEPLY UNPOPULAR AND BASED ON STATISTICS THAT ARE FANCIFUL, THEY'RE ABSOLUTELY CREATED OUT OF WHOLE CLOB.

44:57AND I CAN CITE YOU THE SOURCES THAT PROVE THAT THE STATISTICS ON WHO WHO EXACTLY ICE IS ROUNDING UP RIGHT NOW WITHIN THE BINDS OF THE UNITED STATES ARE NOT THE CRIMINALS THAT THEY PROMISED THEY WOULD BE ROUNDING UP. THEY'RE NOT THE WORST OF THE WORST. HERE, I 'LL GIVE YOU QUICKLY. THE SENATE FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES AT CATO, 65 % OF THE PEOPLE PROCESSED INTO DETENTION HAVE NO CRIMINAL RECORDS. SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY TRANSACTIONAL RECORDS CLEARING HOUSE, 70.3 % have no criminal records. A big investigation by CNN in June of 2025. Less than 10 % have convictions for serious offenses. He's exactly flipping the reality.

45:46They're arresting farmers and babysitters and lawnmowers and dishwashers and poultry processors and meat packers. And they are all Latinos. They are racially profiling Latinos.

46:11THEIR PAPERS, PLEASE. IT IS OUTRAGEOUS. ONCE THEY MAKE IT INSIDE THE UNITED STATES AND HAVE BEEN HERE FOR DECADES, GOD FEARING, LAW ABIDING, FAMILY PEOPLE, FOR GOD'S SAKES, GIVE THEM SOME COMPASSION. GIVE THEM SOME AMERICAN SPIRIT. I HAVE BEEN HERE FOR DECADES, I am appalled by the aggression that they are showing and the indiscriminate nature, and that's why these court cases are all going against Tom. God bless him for his patriotism, Piers.

46:43Piers Morgan:Wow. Okay. Benny Johnson, your response to that? Wow. Okay. Let me just paraphrase you, Piers. First off, Geraldo, I appreciate you not maligning the man's character and simply saying that he's a patriot who wants to follow the law and wants to make his nation safe. I think we can all agree on that. That is clearly the single most important thing. If you are a patriot in this nation, that your family can walk down the street safely, that you can send your daughter to nursing school, that she won't be bludgeoned by a rock by a Venezuelan gang member who's trying to kill her and succeeds in murdering your daughter named Laken Riley with a rock after he tries to assault her after that same Venezuelan Trendyaragua member was locked up and released again and again and again by district attorneys from Manhattan to Atlanta.

47:40Now, what you would call that is terrorism. That is a organized gang member who is operating via a narco state, Venezuela, in order to terrorize our nation and succeed in murdering a young American nursing student, Laken Riley. He's part of a greater overall terrorist network that President Trump just yeeted one of their boats in the Caribbean. We all saw that clip. My question is, why is it wrong for ICE agents who are deporting and arresting terrorists in our nation, organized terrorist gangs to wear masks, yet special forces, when they're fighting ISIS or Al-Qaeda, wear masks? Why is it impermissible for ICE to not wear masks?

48:33They wear them for the same reasons. They're fighting dangerous, well-funded narco-state terrorists who would murder them and target their family and children if they could. Bullshit. Just bullshit. This is why Tom Holman said, I don't even live with my wife anymore. Tom Holman just said, I don't have the security to live with my wife anymore because of how dangerous this job is. United States soldiers fighting ISIS in places like Afghanistan with these officers on the street in Chicago. Benny, give me a fucking break. This is, this is, I have no patience for it. I believe that Tom Homan believes everything that he says.

49:18I don't doubt his sincerity. When I come to the media that pretends to objectivity, I have a much harder view in this, my 55th anniversary week. I started in broadcasting, broadcast journalism 55 years ago this week. I've seen the truth tellers and I've seen the bullshitters. I agree that they have done a superb job on the southern border. I am absolutely dismayed by the attempts to sow terror in the homes of Latino people. For instance, Puerto Rican people. Puerto Rican people look just like Dominican people, just like Cuban people, just like more or less Venezuelan people. And yet Puerto Rican people are citizens.

50:18Puerto Rican people are being harassed by ICE. They're citizens, but they are also Latinos. There is a racial component. There's a racial component. Puerto Rican people have American passports, Geraldo. What are you talking about? And so now they carry their... Hold on. Now Puerto Rican people have to carry their American passports to show you that they belong here. Do you carry your American passport, Benny? Do you? I carry an ID everywhere I go, yes, and a firearm. But is your contention that America is deporting Puerto Ricans back to America? My contention, wise ass. Can you give me an example of that, for instance?

51:04Because I can give you an example, Geraldo, of white, Chinese, black, and Hispanic people that are all here illegally. And here's my question for you, Geraldo. My question for you is this. What do you mean by they're not criminal aliens? Are you saying that they came here legally or illegally? Which is the answer? The only crime the vast majority of these people have committed is coming here illegally. That's the only crime. They're not Trenda Agua. They're not MS-13, the vast majority of them. They commit fewer crimes than citizens do. So do you understand the—respectfully, do you understand the definition of the— I understand everything.

51:48Do you understand the definition of the word illegal? Because you just said they came here illegally. Do you understand what that means? That means they broke our laws. the laws on the books that Tom Homan is enforcing. So did the jaywalkers. But I don't understand. You just admitted their crimes, the vast majority of their crimes, are there here illegally. But by saying that, you're saying they're criminals. In my day, they weren't. First of all, to categorize what they are doing as a crime insults real criminals. They are people who are getting along. So we should have open borders? THE REASON I HAVE SAID AND I HAVE MADE IT VERY CLEAR THAT I BELIEVE IN SECURE BORDERS.

52:40THE U.K. NEEDS IT. THE UNITED STATES NEEDS IT. TO BE A COUNTRY, YOU NEED A SECURE BORDER. BIDEN, I AGREE WITH TOM HOMEN, DID A TERRIBLE JOB. COMPASSION IS AN AWFUL THING IF YOU WANT TO CONTROL YOUR BORDER. WHEN YOU SAY, COME ON, COME ON, NEEDY MIGRANTS, COME TO THE PROMISED LAND, THEY WILL COME. AND I THINK THAT'S THE NAIVETE OF, OF, OF, OF PARTY AND BIDEN. AND THAT'S WHY THE REGIME WAS SUCH A FAILURE IN THIS REGARD. GOING FORWARD, IF THEY ARE GOING TO MAINTAIN THIS MILITANT STATUS IN TERMS OF IMMIGRATION, THEY'RE GOING TO WREAK HAVOC IN NEIGHBORHOODS, IN CITIES throughout the country on farms, on agricultural processing plants, restaurants, there's going to be and is already a terror, a reign of terror that Tom Homan has and is creating.

53:47Piers Morgan:Okay, let me, I haven't jumped in because it's been such a fascinating debate so far. Benny, here's where I took issue with Tom.

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54:25Piers Morgan:I do think he cares passionately about this issue. I thought he articulated the reasons for that very well. He's obviously seen stuff that is horrific over many, many years. Everyone, I think, can agree. Geraldo, you, me, Tom Homan, most Americans I've talked to, can agree that what's happened on the southern border is little short of miraculous. To bring the numbers coming over that border down this fast to that low quantity is extraordinary. Big tick. Most Americans, like I said to Tom Homan, who I've spoken to, have no problem with undocumented people in America who then commit other crimes ahead of their illegal immigration status, separate to that, of those people being deported.

55:06Piers Morgan:No-one has a problem with that. The problem area is the generic story I articulated to Tom Homan, of which there will be many examples of the kind that Geraldo touched on, where you have someone who's come in illegally, then built a life for themselves in the United States, contributed to society, got a job, paid taxes, you know, had children who have been born in America and is genuinely leading a better life for themselves but contributing in a beneficial, positive way to the United States. Most polling I've seen shows that the majority of Americans, two-thirds or so, have a real problem with those people being rounded up and deported.

55:48Piers Morgan:And Tom Homer made it clear to me he thinks there are 20 million people in the United States illegally, and his aim is to deport all of them. Do you have any number of that 20 million who, for whatever reason, you think should be exempt from being thrown out, or are you as hardline as Tom Homan? They've all got to go. So that's asking me to be judge and jury in a crime, and that's already happened. So the American public has already voted for our representatives to pass immigration laws, starting back 100 years ago, it was illegal to cross our border. And those laws have been actually reinforced and doubled up on.

56:30And so that's asking me to say that it's okay to break the law. And I won't do that, peers. I'm a business owner. So let's take an example. You say that this is a well-meaning, productive member of society who's here, who's a criminal alien, and it's just a victimless crime, right? They're here. As a business owner, if I commit tax fraud against the federal government, should I get a pass because I'm a good guy and I'm just benefiting myself and I'm a dad, I got a family? Should I be able to commit some tax fraud because I want to provide for my family? Aren't I doing other things? Do you see how slippery of a slope that is?

57:10Do you understand that if I then am able to make that argument, then hundreds of thousands of other business owners, including yourself, will be able to say, will be able to say, like, wait a second, it's just a process crime. I get the point. He's just, you know, so everyone else will just do that. Benny, I get the point, but here's my response.

57:26Piers Morgan:Here's my response. So you can't incentivise that. No, I understand. And the American public has already said crossing our border illegally is a felony. I understand. Evading law enforcement is a felony. Not turning yourself in to the authorities is a felony. I get the argument, but let me throw one back to you. Let me throw this back to you. So I get that argument, and I do understand the deterrent part of this, and it clearly has been very successful. However, if the Trump administration, through Tom Homan and his team, if they'd focused on shutting the southern border, which they've done very successfully, and deporting people who committed other crimes, and just stuck to that, I think this would have been a universally popular policy.

58:04Piers Morgan:The unpopular element of this is that a lot of Americans, the majority, Benny, don't agree with you. They don't think that just coming in illegally in itself should be the criteria for mandatory deportation. All the polling shows that. You're in the minority with that view, as is Tom Homan. And it's that that's getting the negative publicity. I'm just curious from a political perspective why Trump didn't focus on southern border and deporting people who broke other or committed other crimes. Because I think that would have been universally popular. It seems like in this extra move to basically run around grabbing people who might be undocumented, whatever the way they've led their lives, and throwing those out, that has crossed the line for the majority of Americans.

58:54Right. So once again, you're asking somebody to wave a magic wand and take a criminal act and a felonist act based on the laws of our country and to say, well, we like you, so we're not going to charge. Well, there are lots of misdemeanors, as Geraldo says.

59:10Piers Morgan:There are lots of misdemeanors. Well, there are lots of laws you can break in America that don't lead to anything more than a slap on the wrist and a fine. For example, you could fine people. You could say, look, you're here undocumented, we're going to fine you X thousand dollars. But we draw the line now, and anybody who comes in now, right, that immediate deportation applies to you. But the immediate deportation rule would only apply to existing people in the country if they commit other crimes. I just think from a political point of view, that's an easier win, isn't it? From a good faith argument standpoint here, I'm going to admit to you that I'm not a lawyer, nor am I an immigration court judge.

59:52And I know that there is due process. And I know that these things are taken under consideration in that due process. And yes, I believe there should be fines. And yes, I believe there should be a legal process for reapplying for citizenship to the United States of America and these kind of things should be weighed. However, when you have a patient that has terminal cancer, you have to do immediate certain, you have to take immediate steps in order to stop it. Letting 30 million or 20 million, whatever it is, criminal aliens cross our border, tens of millions of which just happened in the last four years, as you've both SAID IS ABSOLUTELY ABHORRENT TO SIMPLY A CIVILIZED AND ORDERLY SOCIETY WHICH WE ALL WISH TO LIVE IN, THEN YOU HAVE TO TAKE IMMEDIATE STEPS TO ENSURE THAT THAT DOESN'T OVERTAKE THE PATIENT.

1:00:44CAN I MENTION SOMETHING? GERALDO, YOU RESPOND. PLEASE. YESTERDAY, DAY BEFORE YESTERDAY NOW, IN THE STATE OF WASHINGTON, A 23-YEAR-OLD FIREFIGHTER WAS THE FAMILY WAS TAKEN OFF THE LINE AND HELD, IS NOW CURRENTLY BEING DETAINED FOR DEPORTATION. HIS FAMILY BROUGHT HIM HERE AT THE AGE OF FOUR. HE CAME AT THE AGE OF FOUR. HE HAD NOTHING TO SAY OR IT WASN'T HIS CHOICE. HIS FAMILY BROUGHT HIM AT THE AGE OF FOUR. HE'S HAD A PRODUCTIVE LIFE IN WASHINGTON STATE. HE WAS FIGHTING A CURRENT FIRE A BLAZE NOW IN THE NORTHWESTERN HE WAS ON THE FIRE LINE. SOMEHOW ICE GETS WORD THAT HE'S HERE ILLEGALLY. HE GETS TAKEN OFF THE FIRE LINE, HELD, DETAINED FOR DEPORTATION, PENDING DEPORTATION.

1:01:40CAME AT THE AGE OF 4. HE'S 23. HE WAS FIGHTING A FIRE. I CAN GIVE YOU EXAMPLE AFTER EXAMPLE OF THESE HUMAN TRAGEDIES THAT ARE HAPPENING BECAUSE OF THE FIREFIGHTERS. I THINK THERE IS AN INTERPRETATION OF A MANDATE THAT I BELIEVE IS INCORRECT. YOU SAY, PIERS, CORRECTLY, THAT WHEN IT COMES TO THE EXAMPLES LIKE THE ONE I JUST GAVE OF THE FIREFIGHTER, THAT TWO-THIRDS OR MORE OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SAY GIVE THE KID A BREAK. that's the problem with Tom Homan and his efforts now he's got to give the kid a break Benny let me just ask you finally Benny to Geraldo's point very quickly about law enforcement there was a Maine police officer there was a police officer in Maine who was also found out to be a criminal alien and he was in I believe it was Portland, Maine you'll have to check me on that but he was a uniformed police officer and Geraldo I just think that that is horrible.

1:02:42And I don't want somebody who is a foreign national enforcing my laws. Is there any allegation? Any allegation that that cop did anything wrong? I'm saying you put that scenario on paper. Did he rape anybody? Did he rob anybody? Did he kill anybody? Did he do anything other than be a policeman? A foreign national with a firearm that has the power of life or death over me, an American citizen is immoral, actually, in this nation. Well, I'd be more afraid of you with a firearm. And that includes voting. Like, at what point do you say, wait a second, how many criminal aliens are voting in our election?

1:03:21There seems to be a DOJ indictment every single week of somebody who's an illegal who's voting in our election. You know, at what point do you say, well, here's a foreign national that'll just run for political office and they'll be able to pass our laws while having allegiance to another country? I mean, I think that that's such an insane, slippery slope. It's indefensible, actually, if you wish for an orderly American society. You have to have a limiting principle. And the limiting principle is you're here legally to participate in our society. OK.

1:03:52Piers Morgan:You know what? It's a fascinating debate, this. And I actually really enjoyed talking to Tom Holman. Hearing his advocacy for what he's doing was very interesting. I enjoyed your passionate response, Haraldo. and I enjoyed your contribution too, Benny, because it's not easy. These things are complicated. If it was easy, it would have been fixed. But I appreciate you joining me. Thank you both very much. Thank you. I've always been a massive admirer of Geraldo's moustache. It is the greatest moustache in global broadcasting. Somebody who probably wouldn't be able to look good in one. I mean that.

1:04:26And by the way, Geraldo,

1:04:27Piers Morgan:you don't look like you're even 55 years old. Never mind actually having that length of time as a broadcaster. So whatever potions you're eating, I want some of them. All right, thanks, buddy. Thank you both. Take care, guys. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, you'll ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.

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1:05:32Tom Homan:Outdoor deterrence requires a SimpliSafe Active Guard outdoor protection plan starting at$49.99 a month. Visit SimpliSafe.com slash licenses for alarm license information. Tennessee 2012.