“He HATES America!” James Carville vs Hasan Piker & Tucker vs Trump With Vinnie Oshana

21:57And he's the one that was laying down ultimatums about who gets to be in the party and who doesn't. And that's absurd. So now, look, there's a great irony here because in terms of those social issues, my position is actually very close to James Carville's. In fact, me and my co-host, Anna Kasparian, were the ones who debated people on our left who wanted to abolish prisons about two years ago. So we were on top of this and we didn't want this to be, you know, something the Democratic Party is known for at all. We thought it was a terrible idea. And in those debates, we told people, look, you guys are the only 13 people in the country who believe this nonsense.

22:36Stop pretending that you represent Democrats. But now I would say the same exact thing to James Carville. which is stop pretending that you represent all Democrats. You just don't. We have a wide range of opinions. So I don't think you should abolish prisons. I think that's mental. But good news. Ninety nine point eight percent of Democratic voters agree with me. By the way, ninety nine point eight percent of Democratic politicians agree with me. Right. So some people in the party don't. Right. So Hassan Piker is my nephew. On Thanksgiving, we do these epic three, four hour debates called Jenksgiving.

23:06sometimes we do it throughout the year. And we're both in the same party and we have these brawls about where the Democrats should be. So what? Why does James Carville want to cancel anyone inside our own party? Well, that doesn't make any sense. We want a broader tent. And if a couple of people got elected that believe in extreme things, and you know what? There's 520 some odd congresspeople who believe in super extreme things like we should hand over American sovereignty to a tiny little irrelevant country named Israel. They believe in giving trillions of dollars in our money to pork barrel projects in the Pentagon and they give$35 billion in oil subsidies away.

23:49Those are the establishment Democrats that James Carville loves and they're a disaster but they're still in our party and we still try to head in the same direction. If we canceled everyone based on not agreeing with us 100 percent well then we'd have no party left. I say that to my friends on the left and I say that to my friends on the right. So let's stay focused. And there's a super easy answer to which direction the Democratic Party should go. There's a wing of the party that is enormously popular, but almost never gets talked about. And that is not an accident. The mainstream media agrees with right wing media in this issue.

24:23They want to try to make the left unpopular because of our stance against Israel. Right. So I believe they're in cahoots. And they are purposely ignoring the most popular wing, which is the populist left, represented roughly by Ro Khanna. But by the way, Abdul El Saeed has almost, I don't want to, you know, spear him here, but he has almost identical positions to me. And I would say very, very similar to Ro Khanna. And that's why he's endorsed by him. And what do we want? We want the most popular things in the world. We want universal health care, which almost every other nation has. We want higher wages.

24:57We want to be able to negotiate drug prices. We want lower housing prices and all the wars and get money out of politics. Every one of these polls at over 67 percent. So I have a genuinely unique idea for the Democratic Party. Why don't we run on our most popular policies and all get united behind those?

25:17Piers Morgan:One of the problems you've got, and I'll come to Vinny to respond to this because you've been quite strong on this, Vinny. But Rolling Stones just published a feature on your nephew, Hassan Piker. Headline, Why Is Everyone Scared of Hassan Piker? It reads, a self-described Marxist with an NSF, MS Now vocabulary. He's become famous as a peddler of incendiary takes, not so much moving the Overton window as throwing a brick through it. Among his greatest hits, America Deserved 9-11. There's a lot we can learn from the Chinese Communist Party. Let the streets soak in red capitalist blood, most of which he'd later walk back if not apologised for.

25:55Piers Morgan:It goes on Pike as a matinee handsome progressive icon who's uniquely talented at translating radical left politics for the kind of Gen Z bros. And the accompanying photo shoot has a picture of him on a motorbike and by a pool looking like a movie star. And the problem with this, I think, Cenk, is that when a lot of Americans see quotes like America deserved 9-11, and they've been regurgitated because of Hassan's rising profile. And they say there's a lot we can learn from the Chinese Communist Party and let the streets soak in red capitalist blood. They see these quotes come back and they think this guy is very extreme.

26:34Piers Morgan:And they believe they have a right to be fearful of people like him becoming the faces of the Democrat Party. Before I go to Vinny to talk about that, what would you say in his defense? Yeah, look, we are all on the air for literally tens of thousands of hours. So I've debated Hassan a lot of this stuff. And he comes from the more, you know, I don't know what word to ever put on it, radical left, max left, whatever it is, right? But again, I'm in favor of Big Ten. And I come from the populist left. So there are some things that are just, you misspeak and it happens. And he said about four dumb things out of, I don't know, 10, 20, 30 ,000 hours on air, which, you know, you want to disagree with those good news.

27:22He also disagrees with those. In fact, the 9-11 comment, he came on the Young Turks right afterwards and disavowed it. So people are trying to make it seem like he still believes it when he disavowed it instantly. Now, if you want to get into a real substantive debate about, hey, where on the socialism, communism, capitalism spectrum we should be, great. I mean, Haas and I have had that debate for hours and hours. That's at least substantive. We used to do something called agitprop for our members on the Young Turks, where Haas and I would only debate those kind of economic issues.

27:52Piers Morgan:Okay. So that's a legitimate debate. But going back and nitpicking each comment, come on, Vinny, you and I have also said things we probably wish we hadn't said. All right. Well, Vinny, your response. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, with all due respect, I have so many things to say, Piers. And thank you for having me on. I miss you. I've been I've been gone for a while. But I keep hearing this big tent Democratic Party. And you know what is majority is inside these tents are freaking clowns. So, Chank, you're having these chanks giving whatever. I've said crazy stuff. You know what I've never said, Chank, in my entire life.

28:24America deserved Americans over 3000 dying, burning to death and jumping to their freaking death. and there's no excuse for that. Chang, I don't care. I've never said anything and I'm pretty sure you've never said anything remotely to that. So you have these Chang's giving dinners. Do you ever talk to him about this? About the saying, you know, kill them, kill those mother effers and those mother effers, let the streets soak in their effing blood. If you cared about Medicare or Medicare fraud, kill Rick Stott. My nephew, who's five years old, said the F word and my brother called me the other day and I told him off.

28:58Like as a child, but like in a respectful way, I said, don't you ever use bad words and don't do that. I'm curious in these little dinners, you're not talking to him about that? To say that as a New Yorker and how embarrassed and how ashamed I am that these people like AOC are like, no, yeah, he said he's sorry. There's some things, Piers, that you can say you're sorry for that deep down inside you're saying that he's over it. He just removed one of the photos he has in his stream room and he put the World Trade burning, okay? So don't give me this, he forgot. But you know how we got to this point, Piers, this populist, whatever, all these Hassans and everything, is because people like James Carville, for the past 10 years, all it's been is Trump.

29:38Trump is Hitler. We're Nazis. We're deplorables. And now when the tedious dust has settled, look who they're left with. Look who they're left with. The AOCs, the Mamdani's, the El Abdul, whatever the hell his name is, that want to abolish ICE. They want to defund the police. They want open borders. And when you mention the SAVE Act, it's racist. How dare you ask people to prove that they're here because Kamala Harris and the Biden administration left the border open for four years on purpose. And this is it, OK? So I'm sorry, but I'm not sorry. When you say stupid shit like America Durser 9-11 and AOC yesterday was like, yeah, but he said he's sorry.

30:17Nonsense. He's not sorry because he believes it. He says he's not patriotic. He dresses up like Mao Zedong, like that's his hero, cosplaying a freaking mass murderer. It's a joke. It's a joke. And people like James Carville saying, oh, I'm excited and we got talent. Gavin Newsom is your number one, AOC's number two, and Kamala's number three. Talent my ass, Piers. And I'm sorry for cussing, but it drives me crazy. That's the Democratic Party for you.

30:45Piers Morgan:Vinny, I've missed you too. Love the passion. I love you. Dave Smith, welcome back to you. Welcome back to our sense of Dave Smith. Can I address that? Truly, I've got to say, I've got to say it is a fascinating time for people like me that love American politics who are not actually American. Because on the right, you have this enormous split between the Tucker Carlson side, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Thomas Massey and others and the rest of the MAGA crowd. And on the left, you have this enormous split now between the Mamdani's, the Al-Sayed's, the AOC's and the more mainstream Democrats, the Carville's of this world.

31:25Piers Morgan:And I, you know, it's very hard to predict how this all plays out. But what do you make of what is happening here? Yeah, well, I mean, certainly I think the Democratic Socialists are ascendant on the left. And I, you know, I would really largely agree with, I think, both Cenk and Vinny's critiques of the establishment of the Democratic Party. And it's just so obvious to me. And it's amazing to watch an interview with James Carvel where he talks about how, like, oh, why are people embracing wokeism or why are they embracing democratic socialism or anti-Israel feeling? And as if we're supposed to ignore what the Democratic establishment's been doing this entire time, which was what?

32:03I mean, all through the Obama years, embracing and expanding George W. Bush's failed war on terrorism, giving us record high government spending, record low artificial interest rates, which created a cocktail that was just a gift to Wall Street. It was nothing but bailouts to the politically connected and to Wall Street. As Vinny pointed out, they had the open borders. They went all, the establishment of the Democratic Party, back to back to back, went all in on Russiagate, the lockdowns, and the COVID vax, and got all of them completely wrong. While smearing the rest of the country for not buying into it.

32:37I mean, just everything. The war in Ukraine, they went all in and got the whole thing completely wrong. I mean, like, so obviously the wind is at the back of everyone who just simply opposed the genocide in Gaza or just simply opposed the open borders or just like this is where all the energy is now. But I got to say, I really find a lot lacking in kind of Jenk's broad defense of a lot of this stuff. Look, there is something so inherently dishonest about this entire democratic socialist movement, starting with the fact that Bernie Sanders, who first popularized it, is not a democratic socialist and doesn't even know what democratic socialism means.

33:12I mean, Cenk, you must have seen when he was on Bill Maher's show, what was it, last year, a little over that, and they asked him about the difference, his position between equality versus equity. He had never heard the terms before. He was completely deer in the head, like, did not, how does anyone live in this world and not have a thought? It's like if you asked me about the non-aggression principle and I hadn't heard of it. What are you talking? This is your entire life's work. Bernie Sanders claims to be a democratic socialist, runs as essentially a welfarist. We should have a higher minimum wage and universal health care.

33:41Well, that's basically just being a liberal Democrat. But then he uses the term where Professor Richard Wolff and Bhaskar Sankara, they'll tell you that they mean revolution, democratizing the entire workplace, outlawing all employers. Well, hey, so now these guys don't run as revolutionaries. They run as, hey, we're just talking about the unaffordability crisis, but they use the term democratic socialist. It's inherent. And look, I'll just say this. It's an extension of the dishonest thing that liberals and leftists have always done, which is that you frame the debate as whether we want free stuff or not.

34:15You frame the debate as whether you believe in free health care, free education. When, of course, my seven-year-old could understand that there's no such thing as free anything. As long as doctors are getting paid and teachers are getting paid and construction workers are getting paid, someone's paying for it. The debate is over whether you think that the violence of the state ought to be used to confiscate your wealth through taxation. And then bureaucrats and politicians will decide how to give it back to you or you believe in a free market system. But as soon as you start going to this free health care, free education, well, then why shouldn't the Democratic Socialist run to the left of James Carville and say, I'm for more free stuff?

34:52I'm for all the free stuff you're for, plus a whole lot more free stuff. The bottom line here is that anybody who thinks we need more government has lost the plot. The federal government's about to spend seven and a half trillion dollars this year. We are going bankrupt. It is infantile for us to be having conversations about what more government programs we should be giving out to people right now. We're destroying the dollar trying to keep up with the entitlements in the warfare state that we cannot afford right now.

35:21Piers Morgan:You had your breakfast this morning, didn't you, Dave? Well, you know, Vinny said he missed you and then I missed Vinny and I got going. I miss you too. Lindy Lee, welcome back to Uncensored, and congrats on your book. A very interesting comment from AOC, in which she talked about what she called woke one. Let's take a look. Abolish prisons, abolish police, which is also positions that have been taken by a lot of the progressive candidates who have won. How do you get around that? Those are not positions that are supported by most of the group. Right. I mean, I think that a lot of these races, even right now, they'll have a tendency to be nationalized.

36:04Piers Morgan:Yeah. But these races ultimately are local and all politics are local. My understanding is that Francesca Hong has made clear her present stances to her electorate. Yeah, she's moved away from a lot of that. Right, she's moved away from it. And I have a local city councilman that has this saying, woke one was crazy. Now, you know, apart from the sort of breathtaking audacity of saying woke one was crazy, she was one of the biggest protagonists of woke one and all it embraced, right? She was the absolute face of woke one progressive left. But also, Lindy, I don't see a lot of difference between woke one and woke two.

36:48Piers Morgan:You know, I wrote a book last year called Woke is Dead, but I made the point it's not actually dead yet, but I felt like the pendulum was springing the right way. And then you have, as a backdrop to what she was saying this week, this absolute farce in the WNBA, where you have one of the players, Sophie Cunningham, saying what most people think, which is that it's unfair for biological males to compete against women in sport, and particularly in basketball, that relies on power and strength and so on. And you've now got two former male basketball players, Enes Kanter-Freedom and Royce White, announcing they're going to enter the 2027 WNBA draft.

37:28Now, they're doing it for quite a smart reason.

37:31Piers Morgan:They're testing how far this mindset is going to go, right? Are they actually going to be allowed to enter the draft or are they going to be banned because they are men? Which, of course, is the very argument that Sophie Cunningham has been laying out as what should happen anyway. So, you know, wokeism is alive and well. The distinction between woke one and woke two is pretty well lost on me. Where do you think we are with this? Because you can see an absolute split between the hard progressive left, these democratic socialists, as they call themselves now, and people like James Carville trying to maintain some kind of middle ground, order, common sense to the party.

38:14Piers Morgan:You were in the Democrat Party, you know, right around the top players. What do you feel about what's happening here? It's the same thing with socialism, Pierce. Socialism, democratic socialism is still socialism. It's just better branding. Same with Woke One and Woke 2.0. And I think it's so rich that she has a gumption to actually say, oh, Woke One is crazy. But she was on the progenitors of this movement that gave us cancel culture, that gave us biological denialism that said that biological men should be able to hijack women and girls sports, should be able to basically sabotage the futures of women and girls.

38:53And Pierce, thank you for the congrats on my book. You're in it. You made a huge difference, especially two years ago when I first left this crazy party, the same party, by the way, that now includes the DSA whose constitution, and this is not hyperbole because it's written in their constitution, They want to abolish the United States Senate, the presidency, the Supreme Court. Not only that, they also want to grant amnesty to tens of millions of illegal aliens in our country. They also want to abolish America's borders. Well, guess what? If we don't have borders, we don't have a country. Sovereignty is so important.

39:30I don't want to be a globalist country. And we saw what happened with Spain just a few weeks ago. Tens of thousands of migrants poured in. I don't want America looking like Spain. We can do better than that. And it's absolutely unconscionable for somebody to say that America deserved 9-11. I was a kid. I remembered what happened on 9-11. He is not sorry he said that. He's only sorry he got caught. It's his true belief. It's what's in his heart. And there are millions of Americans. You guys are making things up. He's only sorry because it's a little people. Sorry, but you are. You're making things up.

40:07No, Cenk, you have to stick up for him because that's your nephew. Let her finish. Don't, I know you have to stick up for him because he's your nephew, he's your blood, but don't, a guy that hates America like that, don't do it. Let her finish, please. Cenk, I didn't interrupt you. But she's making things up. Go ahead, keep making things up. He literally said it. I didn't put the words into his mouth. You don't know it. He was an adult who said those words. You should be held responsible. This is the same party that espouses cancel culture, but suddenly for Hassan, piker we've just given the pass why yeah but it was a stupid thing to say it was a stupid thing to say he's a stupid thing to say he's acknowledged it was a stupid thing to say and as soon as all those democratic establishments run everybody out who said gaza deserved what they got after october 7th then we could you know people say stupid things like this all the time so there's so much to take on hassan i just like why just harp on this one dumb thing that he said look more recently.

41:01Because it's not just one John thing. It's such a damning thing to say. If you want to hold the same standard, have a lot of he has given Donald Trump such a hard time about making the... Oh my God. Instead of cutting me off, just let me make the point better than you. Cenk, he is on record though, quite openly, when he discusses Mao Zedong, he goes, yeah, man, I mean, there were some excesses. Absolutely. Like, I don't think he should. But hey, he industrialized China and all this. And I got to say, brother, you know that I love and respect you, Jenks. You got to understand, dude, that's freaking concerning for people.

41:34You know, the fact that these types, whatever you want to call it, the left maximalist types, if they were to look at the industrial revolution in England or in the United States of America, they have nothing to say except for exploitation, capitalist wage theft, grueling labor conditions. But when it comes to Mao Zedong, who's slaughtering people by the tens of millions, pointing guns at people's heads and forcing them off of farms into factories. We go, well, hey, man, I mean, he did build a factory at the end of that. I'm sorry, dude, but like if someone was talking about Adolf Hitler that way, you would immediately have alarm bells going off going like, whoa, what?

42:09And this is a thing that people are creeped out about. There's something in Mom Donnie. There's something in a lot of these guys where why do I see a video from you five years ago and you have a thick African accent? Why were you a completely different person a few years ago? What's going on here? It's a reasonable question for people to ask. I have to say this. I'm sorry you have to say this. Cenk, you know who Al Smalls I Don't murdered? He murdered my great-grandfather in cold blood because he had the bravery to actually stand up for his people. He's the worst person who ever lived. Mouse-A-Tung is the worst mass murderer who ever lived.

42:46He murdered my family and countless other people, tens of millions. In fact, he has more blood in his hands than Hitler and Stalin. This is the guy that... But, Lindy, Lindy, Lindy, you're supposed to be cool with it because he's going to say he's sorry. And, Lindy, forget about her. Forget about her because just because he dresses like her, like Mao Zedong goes to China, yeah, let him... It's okay because he says he's sorry, Lindy. It's okay. Just get over it is the attitude that... Go ahead. Go ahead, Shaq. Tell us that we should get over it. Go ahead. All right. So now I hope I have enough time to address all three of them.

43:26So first off, you know, we get this, Hassan and I get this all the time. You know, why did your nephew say this? Why did your uncle say this? Well, if we agreed on everything, we wouldn't debate for three or four hours, right? So, okay, we're not the same people. That's a given. Now let's bifurcate the two different things that we're talking about. Dave is right about clarifying the issues, right? So when we're talking about stupid statements that he immediately took back, you guys are inventing what's going on in his head. Oh, he doesn't mean it. He's secretly lying. He's this. He's that. No, we did.

43:58I talked to him about it. We talked to him about it instantly. He came on the Young Turks instantly back then and said, look, obviously, I didn't mean it that way. And Vinny, the irony there is that what he meant and what he clarified is something that you largely agree with, which is that we're in the Middle East too much. And there's no need for us to go and provoke people there. There's no need for us to waste our military, lose American soldiers' lives. So, you know, that's the thrust of the argument, and that's been lost now. And why do we constantly, going back to a couple of things that he said that are outrageous, because it's smear by proxy.

44:33The reality is that establishment media does not really care about Hassan. They care about smearing Abdul El-Sayed and all the other candidates that Hassan campaigns with. This is the same exact thing they did with me and Alexander. It's not me. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on, Piers. Can I finish something? Cenk, you have to. Okay, this is the same exact smear they did to me in 2020. This is the same exact smear they do to all outsiders. You guys are suckers. They're going to do it to you next.

45:02Piers Morgan:Cenk, it's not fair. But I can defend my statements, Cenk. I think it's your second flight, Cenk. I don't ever allow. People, people, look, here's what I would say, Cenk. People hold me to account for what I actually say all the time. If I had said America deserved 9-11, trust me, people would still be talking about it and demanding that my visa gets ripped up. So these comments matter. It is good that he withdrew them. But the defense is not a defense. Bullshit. Bullshit that they matter. Can I explain? Well, no. I want you to talk about Mao Zedong. Let me point out the hypocrisy in an overwhelming and empirical way.

45:38Piers Morgan:Explain his comments about Mao Zedong, because they are extremely concerning. Okay, that's a second issue, which I'm going to get to in a second. But first, on the smear by proxy, okay, no, no, no, no, no. Why isn't anybody asking Mike Rogers, hey, do you denounce Benjamin Netanyahu? You're taking, not only are you campaigning with the Israeli lobby, not only are you associated with the Israeli lobby, you take money from the Israeli lobby. you are legally bribed by the Israeli lobby. So do you denounce the butcher of Jerusalem that has murdered 23 ,000 children? That is a very legitimate question, but somehow mainstream media can't ask that question.

46:20Why didn't they ask Kamala Harris, do you denounce Dick Cheney, who brought torture back, who got hundreds of thousands of people killed? Instead, they're like, oh, you're so wonderful for bear-hugging Dick Cheney. Why didn't anybody get asked, Don't you denounce Henry Kissinger? So these are actual murderers who have slaughtered tens or hundreds of thousands of people. But yet mainstream media doesn't do smear by proxy there. They never ask that question. Oh, what did Hassan say? What did Jenks say? By the way, what did Tucker Carlson say? What did Marjorie Taylor Greene say? Notice that they always do this to outsiders, to people who are not insiders.

46:55But mainstream media is so disgusting and corrupt that they protect the insiders like Mike Rogers. And we all agree, everyone on this panel agrees to that. Everyone on this panel agrees the real welfare queens, everyone on this panel agrees that the real welfare queens are Israel who have been robbing us blind. Can we all agree, by the way, Hassan agrees with us, that we should all stop the robbery. And look, Piers, I am in the 18-year coalition. In this coalition, hold on. In this coalition, we have Tucker Carlson and we have Hassan Piker. They don't agree on a lot of things, and I don't agree with Tucker Carlson's LGBTQ issues.

47:35I don't agree with Hassan on the Mao comments, but we're in the anti-war coalition. Let's stick together. Let's get Israel out of our government, defund it, end the wars, get money out of politics, and then we can go back to these nonsense fights that don't matter. Can you have one conversation? Right, but the truth is, hang on, please, hang on, please. Hang on, please.

47:57Piers Morgan:Hang on, please. I want to ask Cech a simple question. Hang on. Cech, you say that the mainstream media wouldn't go after somebody for saying, you know, difficult things or difficult positions or whatever. I just don't think it's true. If Donald Trump came out with the comments about Mao Zedong that your nephew did, all hell would break loose. And what Dave Smith rightly has asked you is... That's not true. I can prove it. Yeah, he said a dumb thing about America and 9-11, and he came on your show immediately and retracted it. OK, but as Dave said, the mindset which goes out of its way to minimise the actions of the most genocidal monster in the history of planet Earth is very concerning.

48:40Piers Morgan:And as your nephew's star rises, and he gets a big feature in Rolling Stone magazine and becomes the face of the progressive left and so on, It is completely legitimate to ask why he would seek to minimize what Mao Zedong did. And I'm curious whether you, as his uncle, have an answer to that question. Again, we don't speak for one another, so I don't like Mao at all. I mean, to Mindy's point, my wife's grandparents on both sides, grandfathers on both sides, were in Chiang Kai-shek's army. They were generals in that army. They fought Mao, right? So, okay, but you put family aside. I just don't agree with that.

49:24But guys, I don't agree with Tucker's positions on feminism. That doesn't mean I'm going to reject him as an ally in the anti-war movement, in the American sovereignty movement. So, like, you guys are doing cancel culture. But remember, cancel culture is used against all of us. So, okay, you don't agree with him on Mao. I don't agree with him on Mao. So what? No, no, no, but it's not, again, the point I was getting at, it's not to smear him or to cancel it. I just want people to stake out their positions clearly. And look, I get your point, brother. Like, I think I probably agree with almost everything you said in that rant.

49:54It just never addressed, like, my concern. And like, so listen, obviously, as you know, I'm not the guy who's trying to smear someone for being an anti-war critic. And of course, you know that I know that, of course, a huge percentage of the opposition to your nephew and to Mom Donnie and all of this is just blatant Israel supporters who want to ruin him over that and then will find any other thing they can to discredit them. The point is that Hassan has also given him a ton of low-hanging fruit, and I'm asking the question about the mentality here. Because, brother, I am with you if you're talking about how our money shouldn't go to funding a genocide or fighting a stupid war on behalf of a foreign country that is bankrupting and destroying our country.

50:32And I'm with you on the fact that screw any of them for getting morally outraged about anyone. You sit on the corpses of innocent dead children. Here, talk to me about any moral outrage about what a streamer said on their stream. That being said, man, whether the factories are owned by individual capitalists or whether they are owned by the central state is the difference between whether people die by the tens of millions or not. And that is true every single time that it's played out. And there is a movement on the left here who is flirting with these ideas as if they are serious. And I'm telling you right now, Cenk, if these people like your nephew were to real deal get control of our Department of Agriculture, I'll be siding with the neocons against you.

51:13Because that's even worse. That's even worse than the warfare state is real deal state socialism. The worst invention in the history of humanity by far. No close second. And here you guys are for some reason. You have a softness to it. It blows my mind. I don't. The same. No, but Dave. You're constantly defending you. Listen, listen. Hold on, hold on. Real quick, real quick. Look, Dave, you can debate Hassan Mao. I could debate Hassan Mao, and I have, right? We're supposed to, by the way. I want to say that. I want to debate Hassan Mao. You've got to facilitate that for me. And Dave, I'm probably on your side on that debate.

51:51But, guys, this is giving a misleading impression. There are zero Democratic candidates in favor of Mao. Okay, zero. So I don't want people saying, hey, I don't agree with Hassan on that. And hence, that represents the whole Democratic Party. It definitely does not. So as long as you're not conflating Hassan's most radical position with all Democrats, no, it's a big tent, almost no one, and certainly none of the politicians agree with him on that issue. So he's pushing the Overton window, you push it back, and that's a normal debate. Nobody's got to get canceled. That's simply not true. Mom Donnie is on the record saying that he wants to seize the means of production.

52:30This is not just, it's not someone's fanciful predictions. He's literally saying this. And I think it's really curious that you never actually answered Pierce's question. What are your thoughts on Mao? You deflected by talking about Israel and Netanyahu. By the way, I kind of agree with you. I'm not an Israel supporter. I'm not part of the mainstream media. Yet I have concerns, legitimate concerns with your nephew. And there's nothing to do with Israel. Israel isn't even part of my calculation here. But you completely deflected and said these people are mass murderers who killed hundreds of thousands of people.

53:03Well, guess what? Mao killed tens of millions of people and starved them to death. It's not okay to legitimize because there are millions of people watching your nephew. Okay, he's normalizing this trash. Look, Lindy. Lindy, if you're asking my opinion, that's super easy and clear. I'm totally against Mao. So, okay. And then what happened? nobody's head exploded nobody like the Democratic Party didn't immediately you know melt it's okay so and by the way you know how many people in the Democratic Party are in favor of now about 13. I mean look honestly not that many people agree with Hassan on that issue at all.

53:41So why are you putting the face of the Democratic Party when zero Democratic politicians are in favor of it? Zero. Zero. Zero. Why is this a giant issue? I guess what you're not getting is that you're helping The guys, look, no, but you guys get it, right? So what the establishment does, they do it on all the issues, but they do it most on Israel, is they try to cancel people on the left and the right who are outsiders, and they do it by doing smear by proxy. I get that you have other issues with what Hassan is saying, but you guys are helping when you try. And by the way, people on the left then try to help cancel Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Greene, and it drives me crazy.

54:19Don't do that. Don't fit into the establishment. You're my proxy.

54:24Piers Morgan:Chen, you are conflating, cancelling with making somebody accountable. If somebody is a rising political star, as Hassan indisputably is, then his stuff that he said on the record should be held to proper microscopic account to see what he actually believes. No problem. And his minimalizing of Mao's outrages and genocidal monstrosity is a very concerning part of his record. Look, we could talk about this for hours, but we're not going to. You can debate Hassan, but don't make it seem like all Democrats agree with him. Because that's the reason. Can you tell Hassan to come up? Abdul Al-Sayed never said any of those things.

55:08All right. And you know that tomorrow on CNN, they're going to pretend that Abdul said it.

55:14Piers Morgan:Cenk, I would love to have Hassan on for some baffling reason. I know regular people who think it's a quote from him. Hang on, hang on, Dave, hang on, Dave. I would like to take up Hassan's uncle's offer to have Hassan on. I'm available any time he'd like to come on Uncensored, because at the moment he keeps saying no. So if you could put a good word in, Cenk, I'd appreciate it. And by the way, you guys have never talked about, you've never talked about why he's popular in the first place. He's popular because he's anti-war. He's popular because he wants to stick up for the average American. And he might have a different way of doing it than you guys do.

55:47But he's not establishment. He's not corrupt. He's for money out of politics. He's for all the things that are super popular as well. And, yes, Dave, we have this agreement over for Medicare for all and a higher minimum wage poll at 65 % or higher. Those are super popular positions. And he hates America, Chank. He hates America. He's dressing up like, can you understand, wrap this around your head, He dressed up like freaking a cosplay Mao Zedong. He's in China walking around in love with China, praising him and saying how much he hates this country. Then get the hell out of this country, Chank.

56:24And don't act like he doesn't have influence. He's a freaking streamer, okay? He hates these capitalists and everything. Then give your money away. I hope he gives all his millions away, Chank, because it's absolutely ridiculous. And don't act like he doesn't have all this influence because he's hanging out with AOC, who's looking like she's going to be the frontrunner. She's not even, she's just, she's not going to denounce his actions. She's not going to say anything like that. Mind you, if you guys don't think she's a serious threat, David, check this out. She's freezing her eggs because she knows she's going to be running and she's going to be a formidable freaking opponent.

56:54She doesn't want to have a baby. She doesn't want to deal with none of that for 2028 because she knows. Gavin, he's a critic. His resume is a success. Okay, let me, let me.

57:06Piers Morgan:Okay, look, I just want to quickly pivot to Tucker Carlson because he's done a lot about the left. On the right, Tucker's come up with this 10-point vision for America. Vinny, you said it was a nothing burger. I'm not so sure. It was. I think Tucker is laying the groundwork here for a potential run of being president. And to those who think he can't get there, well, we currently have a president of the United States who was a big figure on television, who's very charismatic, and who resonated with millions of people. Tucker Carlson fits all those three criteria. And he is leading this splinter group away from MAGA, along with Thomas Massey, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Joe Kent, who I've interviewed many times.

57:53Piers Morgan:I think he's a very intelligent, thoughtful guy, many of whose views I completely agree with. So I would not describe Tucker's manifesto, which is how I read it, as a nothing burger. Why are you so dismissive of it? Did you, because Piers, did you read it? Did you actually read the 10 points? Fairness, beautiful life. I did, yeah. Which, Piers, fine, but there's no, there's no objective, no policy prescriptions, no nothing. And by the way, Piers, I agree. And by the way, everybody on this panel, okay, everybody on this panel agrees about Israel's influence, about Bibi Netanyahu, about the freaking war in Iran, about October 7th.

58:32By the way, still, zero, zero. You'll haven't heard one peep from anybody saying how did October 7th even happen because of the security in freaking Israel to get to this point. So, by the way, we're all on the same point. The overreaction of freaking— I love the new consensus. To say the least about Bibi and murdering all those freaking kids. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, we could all agree to it. But, Tucker, and again, I'm not hating Piers, but that 10-point plan, like, to me, number 11 was going to be hold hands and sing Kumbaya. There was no objectives. There was no I want to hear your policy prescriptions and what you're going to actually do.

59:07It sounded cool. Piers, love everybody. Harmony, budget, this, Israel. OK, but I want a hardcore proof. And I'm looking at that photo, Piers, at the at that dinner they had in Maine. Tucker, probably president. Joe Kent, you know, secretary of defense. I'm curious to who would be vice president. Would it be Massey? Would it be Marjorie Taylor Greene? I mean, people say that this party, it's going to be an easy thing to launch, Piers. It's not as easy as people say. By the way, I wouldn't be opposed to it, but I want to hear the actual prescriptions of policies on what you're going to do and what your day one is going to look like.

59:38That's my opinion.

59:41Piers Morgan:Well, Dave Smith, you know, it's interesting. For those who haven't seen Tucker's 10 points, they were pretty much fair. Same rules upon the presidents as voters. Sovereign, remove foreign lobbying and Israeli influence. Productive, bring back farming, manufacturing. Beautiful, reduce crime and drug use and challenge ugly urban planning. Healthy, reduce the influence of big pharma. honest, open, classified records, optimistic, have more children, wise, education, biology, less tech for fads, decent, reverse departmental war, stop funding allies that commit genocide, united, tighter immigration restrictions.

1:00:15Piers Morgan:They were broad brushstrokes, but they were a vision for America that I suspect will resonate with a lot of people. And Tucker is extremely articulate. He can get very passionate. I could see him being very, very popular in an election if he chose to run. The question, I guess, for him is can you possibly achieve success with a different new party? Or is what he's really trying to do reshape the Republican Party away from a MAGA-dominated party, which he believes has been betrayed by the architect of MAGA, Donald Trump, and sort of, in a way, reinvent the Republican wheel around what MAGA ought to have been in his eyes.

1:01:00Yeah. Okay, so, I mean, I find there's so much to talk about here because this could be like a 10-hour discussion on third party. You know, I've been very involved in the Libertarian Party over the last few years, and there's a whole bunch of technical stuff about what it takes to make a party. A third party actually could be very useful, and there could be a situation where you create a third party but also have candidates run as a Republican is the kind of long of the short of it. I agree with a lot of the particulars that Vinny, some fair kind of criticisms there. There's a lot of policy that still needs to be worked out.

1:01:34There's a lot of questions about, hey, who's really running for what? Who's going in what position? What exactly is the plan here? But I think that might be missing the forest for the trees if you more look at this as the very first step towards something bigger coming. You know, the consensus that Vinny laid out there, I think we would all agree with. But of course, then there's a real strong implication in there, which is that the Trump experiment has completely crashed and burned and failed. And that's the reality that I think I think right wingers in America are slowly coming to grapple with right now.

1:02:09And look, I mean, I don't know what to say, man. If we're sitting here a year and a half after Donald Trump got elected and we're in a catastrophic war, a regime change war in the Middle East that we just lost and we're further in debt and the Epstein scandal has been covered up and no one's been held responsible for Russiagate and nobody's been held responsible for COVID. And in fact, Donald Trump is saying that he's going to go along with Joe Biden's autopilot. Well, then the drain the swamp and don't fight the wars anymore. America, first thing, has been a failure. It is a betrayal and people are feeling it.

1:02:40And Donald Trump specifically said, screw all of the most influential right-wing news shows in America and all of their hosts. Even Megyn Kelly, even moderate Megyn Kelly was castigated by this administration. And so, look, let's just be honest here. We've never really seen anything like this before. We've never seen the number one news show in America's host launch a political effort like this when we know that the grassroots of the country is so with him on these key issues. And so I think what he was laying out there was almost more, and he said this himself, it was almost more of like, look, we don't have anything culturally that unifies us in this country anymore.

1:03:19We need to put together some broad goals that we're all on board with moving toward. Now, there's a lot of work to be done there, hammering all of that out. But to Cenk's point before about his nephew, Hassan, and I promise I won't talk about him anymore, would love to debate him, though, if he'll agree to. That was the first thing I said, Cenk. He's got the wind at his back because he opposed the genocide in Gaza. Cenk, it's the same thing with me and you, dude. We've had the wind at our back for the last few years just because we were against this most horrible, most indefensible of things. And Pierce, as has played out on your show more than any other show, the pro-Israeli position has just grown to be indefensible.

1:03:55And at this point, it's just a panel of all of us going, yeah, we all agree on this, that this is wrong. And if anybody comes on with the other position, They can't even get through one sentence because their lies are so obvious that everyone just sees through them. But now you have a position where Tucker Carlson, who's not only the number one guy, but is the best guy at giving a speech, the best guy at cutting a promo, an excellent debater, just an unbelievable talented orator. Yeah, I think there's enormous potential there. And I do think there's enormous crossover potential to appeal to people like Cenk.

1:04:26And I think, you know, the thing is that people like me are not going to be getting, I'm not going to be able to get on board if your message is we're collectivizing the means of production. But I think if Tucker's message is, hey, we want to go back to true Americanism. We don't want to be an insane country that's always fighting another war that we can't seem to win. Let's worry about our problems here. I think that is something that could become 80-20 issue with the 80 in support. Yeah, I agree.

1:04:53Piers Morgan:Lindy Lee, what's your view of... Lindy, what do you feel about what's happening with Tucker here? I completely sympathise with the anti-war position. In fact, you know, I agree with the original Donald Trump in January 2025 when he said we should be applauded for the wars that we don't fight. And unfortunately, we got ourselves into this mess. The Strait of Hormuz is still kind of closed and interest rates are soaring and everyone is hurting gas prices are also soaring and it just breaks my heart because we had a historic coalition here we really did and in the meantime americans are hurting across the country i have to tell you it's unbelievable how we're all we're all we blew it i got i come on come on sorry sorry sorry my mistake i was just agreeing with you my mistake i apologize i'm so sorry i thought you were yelling at me again no no no i was just gonna say it's remarkably quick the idea that we the coalition which i was a part of that got donald trump you know uh re-elected the idea that we would have been at the greatest historical comeback in American political history.

1:05:56And just a year later, you know, I posted on Twitter a clip, Pierce, from me on the show a year ago when the Hawks were bragging about how the 12-day war was so successful. Remember back then the talking point was Tucker Carlson doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that we're losing Tucker and Candace and Meghan and Alex Jones and all these people. It doesn't matter that all the most popular people. A year later, our entire conversation, this whole panel, has been on how Hassan Piker has all the energy behind him, how Mamdani has all the energy behind him. If that's not a Trump failure, I don't know what would be.

1:06:27Well, I'm a little bit more optimistic. I still think he maybe has an opportunity to turn this around. But I have to tell you, American history clearly shows that third-party efforts do not work. We saw it with Theodore Roosevelt. We saw it with Oslo. It just fails again and again. Worked with the Republicans. Worked with the Republicans. Yeah. What do you mean with Donald Trump? I think the Republicans were a third party. That's how the Republicans got created. In 1860-something, you're saying? It's been a while. It's been a while. A little later than that. It's been a while. All right, we'll see if we can do that.

1:06:58All right, we'll see if we can do that. All right, we'll see if we can do that.

1:06:58Piers Morgan:60 years later. Cheers. I actually think that James Carville's prediction may come true, that I think the Republicans may well lose the House and the Senate in the midterms, and that would render Trump immediately a lame duck president. And if that does happen, you have to say he'd only have himself to blame. I mean, he went directly against his campaign pledges not to engage in foreign wars and so on. He's had a direct impact on people's living standards, the cost of living in the wrong way to the one that he hoped, coupled with the tariff war, which has compounded, I think, people's issues on that front.

1:07:38Piers Morgan:So if that was to happen, you know, You could absolutely see a rising momentum for somebody like Tucker Carlson who says, look, I want to be the original Trump, right? The one we thought we were voting for, you know, the one who doesn't want to meddle in foreign wars, who does want to take care of Americans and American families and interests and restore American values. You know, I could absolutely see Tucker doing very well post the midterms if that scenario happened. and the Republicans lost control of Congress, I think you're going to see Tucker leading the charge of reframing Trumpism, if you like, into Tuckerism.

1:08:22Yeah, so I might be uniquely qualified to talk about this because Young Turks is, I think, the only show that's had as guest host Hassan Biker and Joe Kent and Marjorie Taylor Greene and Dave Smith. So we listen to both sides. And what's clear, I think, not only to this panel, but to everyone watching is, both the establishment Republicans and the establishment Democrats are excellent at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. So Donald Trump said that he was anti-war and for America first, and then he immediately betrayed that. And now he's down a 32 percent approval rating. He had it. He won all seven swing states.

1:09:02Joe Biden, the Democratic Party is supposed to be anti-war. It's supposed to be for American voters and the average American. But what did Joe Biden and Kamala Harris do? They snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. They both sets of parties, no matter who we elect. You know, there's that meme about no matter who you vote for, you get John McCain. But there's another meme, no matter who you vote for, you get Benjamin Netanyahu. And that's true. And that's what's making both sets of parties, their brands and their leadership deeply unpopular. It's not just that it's about Israel and war. Those are very, very important issues.

1:09:37But they're the tip of the iceberg. The iceberg is we don't trust you. We think you're corrupt. We think you work for the donors, all the donors, not just the Israeli lobby. And that you sell us out and that you're never going to do what we want. So there's a massive opportunity. There's two sets of people that I think can take that opportunity. And we're going to see what history and fate brings us. But there's the populist left wing in the Democratic Party. The most underrated potential candidate is Ro Khanna. Ro Khanna got Epstein Files released. Ro Khanna was 100 percent against this war, is for defunding Israel.

1:10:14He has all the super popular populist positions. And he doesn't get too much into the social issues. That's exactly the right lane. that would capture about 70 % of this country. Now, if Tucker Carlson does, there's a reason why he had that kind of vanilla, benign thing that Vinny's criticizing. Because in order to win, you have to divorce yourself from the social issues, whether you're on the left or the right. But once you get past the culture wars, which are meant to divide us, don't fall into that trap if you're a populist in either direction. Once you get past that, that 70 % of the country that agrees with you let's stand up for america american voters let's give them things that they want not foreign governments not corporations not the analyst subsidies not them this corruption so if road does that within the democratic party i think you'll win if tucker does that either within the republican port party or outside of the party and the democrats make the mistake of putting a corporate stooge on there like booted jitter kamala harris then we're gonna lose and they're gonna win so whoever gives the people what they want and they're very, very clear about what they want.

1:11:21Take the popular positions and you'll win. It's not that complicated. That's why Roe and Tucker are going that way, even though they massively disagree on social issues. Pierce, I also just want to thank you.

1:11:34Piers Morgan:Well, Lindy, I'm sorry. We've run out of time, Lindy, but I just wanted to end by how we started, actually, with Hassan Piker, because Elon Musk, as we've been debating, just tweeted about Hassan. He means what he says. It was a quote tweet citing Hassan Piker saying, we're going to destroy the white race, bitch, which was apparently a satirical comment he claimed at the time. Hassan has just posted back to Elon in response. I am white, laughing my ass off. I think that seems an appropriate way for us to conclude this debate. With the panel looking completely confused. By the way, Piers, I do have an answer for you, though.

1:12:14Piers Morgan:shaking their heads and wondering, how did we get here? So, Piers, real quick, you said, imagine if Trump said something like what Ha said about Mao. I don't have to imagine he did. Remember, he said he fell in love with Kim Jong-un, the North Korean communist dictator. So I guess every Republican has to denounce that because he did literally say he fell in love with them. And they wrote love letters. Shane, the only surprising thing about what you've just said is it's taken you this long to think of it. Normally, you'd be a lot quicker, so I can only blame the blazing... I didn't get a word in edgewise there, that's why.

1:12:50Piers Morgan:The blazing, the unseasonably hot LA sunshine has clearly slowed you down a bit. Guys, a great debate. Thank you all very much. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Pierce Morgan, our sense that is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.