‘He’ll Live to REGRET It!’ Reaction To Nick Fuentes vs Piers Morgan Interview | With Dr Phil

24:42Piers Morgan:Andrew Wilson, what did you think? Well, I was just watching your previous segment and I thought that the framing there was a little off. So I've always appreciated coming on the show and letting me get my viewpoints out. But I do take some issue with your framing. You did bring up the guy's dad and you said his name. Yeah. And when you said it on the air that way, this is a person who has had people attempt to assassinate him. They have come to his house, shown up at his door, and tried to kill him. And that's on video happening. And so when you said the guy's name and then try to tie it into racism.

25:22I know that you know this, Piers, but the left broadly will do these harassment campaigns. These harassment campaigns are designed specifically to incite the violence of many of their mentally ill followers. And that's what they do.

25:35Piers Morgan:Yeah, let me just say, if I had my time again, I wouldn't have said his father's name, but I would have still told the anecdote because I thought it was really important to Nick Forwens '... The anecdote's not the relevant part. Well, but the anecdote is relevant... The anecdote is relevant when he immediately tried to attack me for ambushing him with a story that he told himself on his show. I mean, look, if I told a story like that... But that's not what people are upset about. No, no, I understand. They weren't upset about the anecdote. They were upset that you specifically said the guy's name after Quintez has had these assassination attempts on him.

26:07Piers Morgan:To be clear, if I had my time again, wouldn't have said his father's name, notwithstanding the fact you can find it in two seconds on the internet. So it's not like it's difficult to find. But I do think it's important that that anecdote, to me, was potentially very relevant to why Nick Fuentes is the way he is, about racism, for example, because he was telling a story that cannot be construed, Andrew, any other way than his father was directing them away from restaurants because of his racist views about the people that go in them or run them. And he couldn't be seen any other way. I get that.

26:43Listen, I get the point of bringing the anecdote up, but that wasn't what looked to me like what was making these guys so angry, was not the anecdote itself, but the fact that you said the guy's name, referenced it as his dad, and then, you know, this guy's had assassination attempts on him. Yeah, but the story was him telling the story. By the way, hang on. A lot of the first assassination attempt happened because of the Your Body, My Choice thing that he put that tweet out, And people began doxing his address and his family's name, and that's why they showed up to kill him. So the guy's grievance there, I think, is legitimate.

27:19Piers Morgan:Yeah, but I think it's important that his grievance wasn't just that I named his father, which, again, is a matter of public record. You can find it anywhere, although I wouldn't have said it if I had my time again, because I don't want to attack his family for the sake of attacking his family. It was when he tried to frame it as an unfair attack on his family when I think actually the story that he himself put in the public domain was potentially very relevant to why he is the way he is. As a journalist... Well, how he was framing it was you're trying... You're bringing this up and name-doxing specifically so that you can rally people into a harassment campaign.

27:56That's how he saw it. No, but that wasn't...

27:59Piers Morgan:OK, but just to be clear again, that was not my intention. My intention was to ask him, in all sincerity, if you grow up in an environment at home where there is clear racism, that you have discussed yourself on your own show very, like, unarguably, you know, you can't listen to the clip, I played it earlier, without realising that's what he's saying, then, you know, is that relevant to the way he is? Let me bring in Mark Lamont Hill here. I mean, Mark, you know, I didn't do that lightly. I had decided before I did the interview that, A, I would do a lot of research into this, I would find all the clips that I felt were the most incendiary things he'd said on the record, and I would ask him and push him about them in a way that I don't think anyone else has really done.

28:40Piers Morgan:And it would be interesting to see the way he responded. And if you're going to talk to Nick Fuentes, who openly admits to being a racist, he did it again with me in the show, that anecdote to me was pertinent to why he may have shaped those views. What do you think? Was it unfair?

29:00This episode is brought to you by Fox One. Watch all 104 matches of the FIFA World Cup live in 4K for just$19.99 a month with three days free. Build your own multi-view, choose up to three streams, and follow player spotlights. Stay on top of every moment with live stats, highlights, and instant replays. The FIFA World Cup, streaming live on Fox 1, offers a subject to change. See fox.com for complete terms and conditions. I think the anecdote was entirely fair and necessary, particularly since the first part of the interview was very much about his biography. It was very much about what shaped him.

29:40He himself volunteered information, even in that interview, about his parents, about how they came together, about the loss of their fathers, etc. All that, to me, is fair game. I agree that invoking his father's name in that moment was too far. I hear you saying, if you could do it again, you wouldn't. Because I do have some ethical and moral reservations about doxing. I don't think it's wrong, for example, if someone does something awful in public and it's relevant to the public interest to track down their job and notify their job. But that's not the same thing as tracking down every private citizen just because we think they're racist or sexist or anti-Semitic or homophobic.

30:17I may think you're that thing, but you have a right to be that thing, even though I think it's awful. And I don't think you should be I don't think you should live without safety because of that. Now, there's a bigger question, Piers, that you raised at the top of the interview, and it's come up again in the media, and that is, should you even be talking to this guy? And I've got to be honest with you, Piers. I've struggled with this. I interview controversial people. I sit down with people who people say don't platform them, and I take seriously your point that they already have a platform. And I'm not making them big.

30:47I'm not drawing attention to them. They already have the attention. They're just not being questioned or challenged on that platform. I concede that point. I agree with you fully. The problem with this guy, the problem with Nick Fuentes in particular, though, to me, is he's such a chameleon and he moves in such a way that I'm not sure holding him accountable matters to his base. And he does just enough to look moderate and normal and reasonable that I think he'll do he'll do more damage by sneaking some people from from the middle and dragging them to his side because they think he's reasonable.

31:17And only later find out that he's a sexist, misogynist, Hitler loving Nazi or whatever he is. Right. Like, that's where the danger comes for me. I'm not saying we shouldn't interview controversial people. I'm just saying this particular guy, I feel like we're playing into his interests and his angle.

31:30Piers Morgan:Yeah. Well, Glenn Greenwald, welcome back to Uncensored. You've had four inches on your show. What's your view about that issue, about platforming him at all? Oh, I don't even... I didn't even consider it to be a difficult question at all. I mean, if you're going to have people on who are responsible for the invasion and destruction of Iraq based on lies or the incineration of Vietnam or the destruction of Gaza and the death of tens of thousands of people and welcome them and treat them like respectable people. Tell me what it is that Nick Fuentes has done remotely as bad as that that justifies allowing them to come on and speak, but not him.

32:05And whether you like it or not, he does speak for a huge number of people in his generation and even other generations as well who feel the same kind of anger and frustration with the status quo, with the establishment, with the kind of dogma that we've been told we have to accept. And there's a lot of people who are angry about it and who rebel against it. And we saw this with Donald Trump on maybe a little bit of a smaller scale, but very much the same pattern. When Donald Trump appeared, everybody was like, oh, he's racist and fascist and he's misogynist and he's this and that. And no one wanted to grapple with the reason why his message was resonating so much.

32:38And to me, it is very similar to Nick Fontes. Say what you want about him. He's extremely smart, an incredibly talented communicator, and very well-read. He's very informed. He's not just some sensationalist babbling on the internet. And I think the reason he has attracted a lot of attention is because he's speaking to the anger and frustration, a lot of which is valid, of a lot of people. And to stick your head in the sand and say, oh, we're going to pretend that this isn't happening because his views are too off. but the people who start wars or are responsible for the 2008 financial crisis, these are respectable people who we treat with respect, like Joe Biden or Hillary Clinton or whoever.

33:17That, to me, is the kind of thing that I think is really distorted.

33:21Piers Morgan:Yeah, you know, I... Can I respond to that? Well, no, I'll be bringing Warren Smith first, and then I'll come back to you, Mark. You know, Warren, that really is my feeling about it, is that you can let these guys like Fuentes and Andrew Tate run riot, and they do already, and they have massive followings, millions and millions of young men. I know, in one interview, Tate, the number of young men who just come up to me in the street to ask about it is off the charts, more than almost any other guest I ever have. So we can either pretend this phenomenon isn't happening, and Fuentes is a phenomenon, whether people like it or not.

33:55Piers Morgan:And I don't, you know, I don't hate everything about him. There were elements of that interview where it was a genuinely quite interesting conversation. But there were elements which, either because he wanted to be performative and shocking and attention-seeking, whatever it may be, or because he really believes it, where I felt we saw a pretty dark underbelly of some of his beliefs. You know, I mean, when somebody just says, I am a racist, and then explains, well, let me play the clip first, then come to you. You're fine with saying you're a racist? Totally. I think everybody's racist. I think everybody, if we're being honest, is racist.

34:32I think everybody, the only people that aren't racist or pretend not to be our white people to their detriment.

34:38Piers Morgan:Everybody else is racist. Earlier in the interview, you really got aggrieved at the idea that your father was a racist. You wanted to make emphatically sure he's not. Because my father doesn't share my same views on that. So he's the exception to everyone's a racist. Well, everybody's a little bit racist. I mean, I thought it was an interesting contradiction there, which he was probably calculating in real time, that having got so exercised about the idea that his father was racist, he then said, everyone's racist and there's nothing wrong with it, effectively. But putting that to one side, Warren, I mean, you know, this issue of whether you platform somebody like Fuentes who has these inflammatory views, I think we can all agree they're inflammatory, a lot of his views, you know, is this...

35:23Piers Morgan:Am I, by doing it, am I continuing to fuel this phenomenon in a way that is a negative for society or in a free democratic society, you know, should I be entitled to interview who the hell I like as long as I do my job as a journalist of holding him to account over these things, let other people work it out for themselves? No, I think it's totally understandable and I agree that you would have him on. I was in the same position where I was genuinely shocked when I made a knee-jerk response video to something he had said. I was overwhelmed by the response. I was like, I had no idea there were this many people out there that agreed with him.

36:02And I had people that I knew actually telling me, no, you're oversimplifying this. And I actually went back and looked at the same clip and realized I had oversimplified it. There was actually, I was looking at it through the narrative, going into it without much prior research. And that actually led to me sitting down with him for an hour and a half. I think it's important though, if you want to achieve the ideal outcome, it is important to actually genuinely be trying to gain a better understanding of his reasoning and in his arguments and not just trying to win or embarrass, because in the long run I think that will backfire and that will cause him to become bigger.

36:46Piers Morgan:Yeah, that's an interesting point. You know, people were asking me, you know, he won, or people said you won. I said, look, I didn't seek out to win. I don't seek out ever to win an interview. That's not the point of an interview, actually. What I wanted to do over two hours was, A, personally get to know him better, because I know nothing about him other than what I've read. I've never met him, I've never interviewed him. And, B, to go over all these things which he's notorious for and actually work out the correct context, what he really believes, what may have motivated this, and so on. And I think a lot of that was achieved in the interview.

37:22Piers Morgan:But it wasn't, you know... I think very quickly afterwards, you know, when I asked him during the interview, you know, how he felt towards the end, how he felt it had gone, he thought I'd been fair. He didn't think I'd ambushed him and so on. He made that clear in the interview. And yet afterwards, almost immediately afterwards, he comes out full bore on the attack, which is what he does. But it was interesting to me that the reaction from his sort of mob of groopers was instantaneous and extraordinarily widespread. They just come as this mob. And it's very... And, you know, if you're not me, who's got a very thick skin, it's a pretty hard thing to get back at you.

38:01Piers Morgan:Look, I don't care. I've had a lot worse. And they'll move on, and that's what happens. But if you're not, actually, it can be very intimidating. It was very threatening, very racist, very anti-Semitic, very nasty, actually. Like I said, it didn't... You know, it wasn't scrape the surface with me. because I've got a skin of a thousand rhinos. But to other people, I could see it really being a pretty terrifying experience. Hey, Peter, can I ask a question about that? Yeah. Oh, sorry. They're doing that. They're doing that, too. Sorry. Glenn, go first. Yeah, do me a interrupt. Hang on, guys. Don't talk at once.

38:42Piers Morgan:Let me start with Glenn. Thanks. Mark, I'm sorry to interrupt. But the issue is, why does he have such a loyal following? Why does he have to have a large and loyal following? Now, you can ask that question about Donald Trump, and a lot of people were satisfied by saying, oh, America's just filled with racists and misogynists and xenophobes, and he's playing into that. And maybe that is part of it. Politicians do demagogue and play to our worst instincts always, but there was a lot more to it than that. And I think people understand 10 years later that there is and was a lot more to that. So you can say, oh, yeah, Nick Fontes has this army of angry young men who are incredibly devoted to him, who believe that he's speaking truth uniquely, because there are also a bunch of Nazis and racists and Jew-haters and...

39:25Okay, that's an easy... I think there's a lot more to it, and I think people ought to grapple with the reason why he's speaking for so many people.

39:32Piers Morgan:No, I think that's a very valid point. You know, I've always said about Andrew Tate, for example, that, you know, a lot of the things he says, I can understand if you're a young, slightly disenfranchised young man, you feel society has got it in for you, and all you ever hear is man-bashing, I can understand why you gravitate to a guy like Tate, who stands there tall and proud as a very masculine kind of guy, beating his chest, talking about, you know, taking care of your body and getting fit and being a protector and all these things. I get all that. But then he slides into brazen misogyny, which I hate.

40:03Piers Morgan:Mark Lamont Hill, let me bring you in here. I mean, I just want to, before you say what you want to say, what he said after the interview, Nick Fuentes, was Piers Morgan tried his best, but his hardball interrogation made me look even better than Tucker's wildly criticised softball interview. The regime can acquiesce like Tucker or it can try to resist like Piers, but the result is inevitably the same total Gruyper victory. Now, look, on one level, I admire his social media work, right? He goes on the attack, he gives it full bells, he claims total victory. It's very Trumpian and it can work, it can be very effective, OK?

40:39Piers Morgan:And he's perfectly entitled to claim total victory and whatever, and I'm sure all his supporters agree. But it's interesting that he views me and Tucker Carlson and other people who now do our own shows, whatever, as the regime. Almost like anybody who's older than him is part of some ancien regime that just doesn't get it. You know, all his supporters called me boomer, right? And I was like, I've been called that probably ever. OK, I'm a boomer. I don't really know what that means. But it just means I'm an old dude who doesn't get it, right? And it may be, as Glenn says, there is a more interesting conversation to be had about why these guys get so popular.

41:16Piers Morgan:And it may be that when I do my old, my slightly old school journalistic trick, as somebody put it, of just being quite tough and rigorous with questioning, that it's viewed by young people who gravitate to people like these guys as just an old boomer going through the motions.

41:35Perhaps. I mean, and also, I wouldn't assume that because he said that, that he believes it, that he actually believes you're part of the regime or that he believes that one is softball or hardball. He gives a lot of the characteristics, mannerisms, approaches, styles of a cult leader. And cult leaders navigate their followers in very particular ways, including re-narrating or counter-narrating events that happen in ways that are favorable to them. That's why when I said I struggle with whether or not you should have him on the show, I didn't say you shouldn't. And I didn't say you should. I genuinely—it's a struggle for me.

42:10Again, as a journalist, I have interviewed despots, killers, you know, people—I mean, genocide leaders. I've done it all. And there are days where it feels very clear and obvious why I should do it. They need to be held accountable. They need to be forced to answer tough questions. And I don't put them in it. Contrary to what was said, I don't hold them in a different box than I do Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden or someone who I voted for, you know, potentially. Right. They all need to be held to scrutiny. Everybody in power needs to be held accountable. I'm with that. My concern in this particular case, though, is that I'm not sure what the net gain is.

42:45I don't know if you really got to know a better him, not because you didn't do a great job. You did do a great job, but because I'm not sure who the person is behind that persona. And the question I would ask you, Piers, is if you knew ahead of time that doing this interview would double the amount of people who believed in the worst things that he believes, would you still do the interview? If you know ahead of time that he would double that number, would you still do it?

43:07Piers Morgan:Well, I don't think that that is going to be a consequence of it, honestly. But what I do think is that... But if it were. Let me make my point. I don't like generalising. You know, when Hillary Clinton called Donald Trump supporters, the MAGA supporters, a basket of deplorables, it probably lost to that election. When you generalise about millions and millions of people, it's always a very precarious and stupid folly to do that. What I can say with... Agree. What I can say with some certainty is that pretty well 100 % of his groopers who've directly messaged me or members of my family have been highly abusive, overtly racist, very misogynist, and many of them anti-Semitic.

43:48Piers Morgan:I can say that with certainty. Now, what I don't know is how many of those are human beings and how many are from a bot farm, because according to reports in the last two days, a lot of his stuff comes from bot farms. I don't know if that's true, but that's been reported in various mainstream papers. I don't doubt it. And I don't know how representative these ones on X or Instagram are of the total body of his support. I just don't know. So, you know, I don't want to generalise and say all... And neither do I, period. I don't want to say all Nick Fuentes supporters are disgusting because there may be a lot of people...

44:19Piers Morgan:It's a bit like Tommy Robinson. And to be clear, I'm not saying that... To be clear, I'm not... Let me finish my point. It's a bit like Tommy Robinson. Tommy Robinson in the UK, right, is a bit like Fuentes over here. and there's no doubt as the people marching with him have grown bigger and bigger and bigger, the idea that they're all fascists, racist, whatever, whatever, is nonsense. A lot of people are marching for well-intentioned reasons connected with the immigration crisis in the UK, right? He has bad people as well. I think he's a malevolent character. But again, I wouldn't generalise anymore about all these people that march.

44:54Piers Morgan:Can I ask you a question, Pierce? Yes, yeah, sure. I would like to dive into... But again, I didn't generalise. Let Andrew come in. Let Andrew come in. Okay. There was a part of the interview where you were very combative and you said you haven't even been laid and you're a virgin. This guy's a Roman Catholic. Right. Isn't he supposed to be a virgin until he's married? Isn't that part of your guys' faith? Yes, to be fair to him, to be fair to him, I was brought up a Catholic. I'm not a particularly devout Catholic. I disagree with a lot of the church's teachings. I do agree that Catholics are supposed to remain chaste until marriage, right?

45:31Piers Morgan:Yeah, the strict interpretation from the Catholic Church about that is you should be... How come he didn't get... Shouldn't he get credit for that? Well, he couldn't, did he? The idea that he's kind of staying... He's staying within the confines of his religious beliefs? I have no problem, but he also... Or he can't get any action. But he also self-identifies as an incel, which is more problematic. Well, so, like, here's what Mark just said. You see what I mean? Like, he can't get any action. The guy is rich as shit. And he's a good looking guy. He could get action if he wanted it, Mark. I'm teasing.

46:01By the way, hang on, hang on. Andrew. Hang on, Mark. I agree with you, Andrew. I'm just teasing. Just let me finish your point. I agree with you. I'm just teasing. What I'm saying to you, though, is this, is that, yeah, of course he could. The thing is, though, is that if you guys are saying, like, he's a huckster, he's a fraud, isn't he, in fact, following rigorously his faith by doing that? So my response to that, I think it's a really— That's not what he said in an interview.

46:25Piers Morgan:Hang on, Harry. I think it's a really... Hang on, hang on. I want to respond to Andrew. No, it's not. I think it's a perfectly valid question, particularly as I have always said I'm a Catholic. I was raised a Catholic. I had spiritual guidance from Catholic nuns when I was 12 years old. You know, I go to church occasionally. I'm not devout. I'm not there all the time. I don't agree with some of the Catholic Church's views and policies, and I wish they would evolve faster. However, you know, speaking Catholic to Catholic with him, yes, it's a perfectly valid thing that he could say, I am saving myself for marriage.

46:58Piers Morgan:But if that's all he said, fine. But I would argue that, you know, if you look at him as a Christian, for example, how many of his other views are compatible with being a Christian, right? Well, his view on the priesthood, for instance, was correct. His Jew-baiting, his overt racism, the despicable way he talks about women generally, and so on. None of those things are what you would categorise as being a good Christian. I think you can have dogmatic distinctions with him, and that's fine within the confines of the faith. But with the points he brought up when he said women aren't allowed to be clergy, that's true.

47:31They're not allowed to be clergy by the Catholic faith. And when he said he's saving himself for marriage... But he also said he should... But when he said women... Andrew, when he...

47:39Piers Morgan:But hang on, Andrew, when he said that women shouldn't be allowed to vote and should stay at home, i.e. should also have jobs, would you agree with that? The Catholic Church does not have dogmatic teaching on democracy. They're not like, oh, democracy is the standard for the world. No, no, I'm asking you. I'm asking you whether you think when he says women shouldn't be allowed to vote and should stay at home and not work. Well, I think most people shouldn't be allowed to vote. I think I would limit suffrage for most people like our founders did. I think it's a terrible idea to have universal suffrage.

48:10Would you make it specific to women? Not specific. Hang on. Let me finish this with that. Why would that matter? Ultimately, I would prefer women voting.

48:20Piers Morgan:I do think after they've waged a hundred year war, women for women's equal rights, to remove one of the wrenching building blocks of that, which is what the suffragettes fought for, the right to vote. I think if you remove that. Come on, that whole movement was totally astroturf. That's one. And two. One on the right to vote. Let's just break this out. There's a good argument from a Christian perspective to make that the husband, the head of the household, should be the one voting. Within his dogma, that would make sense. So there is a Christian case that you could make for that, that the head of household...

48:49Right now, what goes on in Christian households is that the wife is just doubling the vote of the man, right? So this is not against the purview of Fuentes, and it doesn't even sound particularly misogynistic to me. OK, Harry... The 19th Amendment, if he... Harry, what's your response to that?

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50:29Piers Morgan:And here's the best part. Use the code peers and get 70 % off your first order. Get 70 % off with the code peers. I know there's so much to respond to right there I do want to point out that Andrew was talking about you know Nick Fuentes is a good Christian he was he's being celibate until marriage because of this reason that's not what he said in the interview when he was going back and forth with you on this peers he talked about how women are gross and they get fat and they're ugly and he wouldn't give his female friend a tampon because they're gross and things like that so Andrew is making an argument for Nick that Nick did not make in the interview Nick Fuentes is just an open misogynist who has spent far too much time in his basement alone festering online and getting involved in his own conspiracy theories that he's creating there's nothing or at least in his via his own words in the interview he did not present it as a a case of him being religious and him staying uh perfectly to the religious text now no he didn't i have the quote i have a go watch go andrew go watch the viral clips wait wait wait wait andrew go watch the back and forth with Pierce.

51:30Go watch the back and forth with Pierce. I did watch it. I have the quotes in front of me. Andrew, Andrew, Andrew, please be quiet. Go watch the back and forth with Pierce in that specific instance where Pierce asked him, why are you a virgin? Have you slept with anybody? And yes, go watch the clip. Fine. Let the record speak for itself. You can go watch the clip if you'd like. That's what he said. No, you said he didn't give a reason. Andrew, can you please be, can you please be quiet? Can you just zip it for a second?

51:54Piers Morgan:Well, tell you, why don't we watch the exchange again and clarify. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Are you actually attracted to women? I am attracted to women. You're not gay? No. But I will say that women are very difficult to be around. OK. So there's that. And do you think they should have the right to vote? I do not. No, absolutely not. They should stay at home? Well, yeah, absolutely. See, basically, you're just a misogynist old dinosaur, aren't you? For a young guy. I mean, I know I'm the boomer here, but actually you're a 27-year-old dinosaur, aren't you? Aren't you, Nick Fuentes?

52:36Piers Morgan:I am. All women are annoying. All women grow old. They all get fat. Says the guy... Have you ever had sex? No, absolutely not. Wow. Says the guy who's never got laid. That's the thing, though. You boomers, it's always free love. You've never got laid. Yeah, we're we are going back to the Stone Age. You're absolutely right. This, you know, you're talking about empathy and your kids are empathetic and they would never laugh at a joke about the Holocaust and you're a misogynist. You're a simp yourself. You're totally henpecked. That's the problem. So he doesn't actually there, Andrew, mention the reason that you've given.

53:18not in that clip but he did mention that he if it's so important to him why didn't he say it supposed to be chased he did say it right there why why didn't he say it right there because his reasoning right there was women are gross and they get fat and things like that wait no but if this is so that's called cherry reason that's a cherry pick no no andrew if that's his reason his reason doesn't change in five minutes he doesn't go from oh i'm a catholic i'm I'm staying true to my religion to, oh, well, women are gross and that's why I don't do it. Wait, wait, wait. You just said that his religion is the main reason as to why he's celibate.

53:54So now it was the main reason five minutes before and then it fast forward to five minutes later and he's like, oh, well, women are gross. That doesn't mean he can't have multiple reasons. It's just such an important reason that he didn't bring it up again. That makes total sense. He just brought up an entirely different reason. So that was his first reason. That was his first reason because it was the most important reason. But in that interaction, he didn't say anything about religion. And if it's his central view, if it's so central to who he is that he bases his misogynistic views off of, then I think he would bring it up.

54:22Well, the other thing, if I could jump in. Come on, man. It's ridiculous.

54:25Piers Morgan:The other thing. Come on in. Don't crash out like you did on that podcast, man. Hang on. Let me bring Glenn back in. The other argument, which I thought was interesting, and I thought I missed a bit of a trick here with him, was when he was talking about the Holocaust, where people have assumed he's a Holocaust, deny it because of things he's said in the past, of trivializing it and questioning the number of people who've died and so on. He seemed to try and take a more moderate position, which was, yes, I believe six million Jews were killed, maybe more, whether he meant that or whether he was being some sort of satirical thing.

54:55Piers Morgan:He was satirising you. He was satirising that. That's what I now believe was probably happening, yeah. So I suspect he was. Yeah. But regardless, his argument was, it all happened so long ago. Why did Jews continue talking about the Holocaust? We've all moved on. They use it all the time as a political weapon and so on. And, of course, I suppose the obvious question for him, I went and checked afterwards how many times he's talked about, for example, on his show, the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, which was over 2 ,000 years ago. He does it all the time. So, you know, if I'd been smart in the moment as a fellow Christian, I would say, well, hang on, but isn't that exactly what Christians do all the time about the crucifixion?

55:35Piers Morgan:What's the difference? Sounds like his religion does matter to him. because it's absolutely central to their religion. And I think, you know, I do think so much of what your interview with Nick Funt has highlighted was extreme generational differences. It was sometimes like watching two people speak different languages. You know, Pierce, you and I are kind of the same age. You're obviously older. Everyone can see that, but just a little bit. And, you know, for people who were born in like the 60s, the Holocaust was just 20 years before. World War II had just ended 20 years before. Or there was a mythology about the United States, about our role in the world, about how great of a country we were, about all the great things we did, about the Holocaust, the unique evil.

56:13Now it's 75 years ago. And people who are a next generation where Harry's were born in 2000 and 2002. And this idea that, yeah, the Holocaust has been weaponized. We've been beaten over the head with it for eight decades. We've been forced to spend and pay huge amounts of money in reparations or that slavery is sometimes weaponized that way. This is a very common view. So I think when he's doing things like making jokes about the Holocaust, it's not because he thinks it's funny that huge numbers of people were exterminated. I think it's a way of purposely being transgressive about orthodoxies and pieties that a lot of people in his generation don't accept.

56:49They don't want to keep talking about the Holocaust. But Glenn, hang on. Hang on, Harry.

56:54Piers Morgan:There was, Glenn, there was a callousness to it. And I'll tell you why. I brought on a guy called Danny Finkelstein. He's a top journalist for the Times newspaper over here who wrote a very powerful book about his family and their horrendous experience at the hands of Hitler and Stalin. And it's incredibly powerful. It's very moving. It's informed his life. And I'm going to talk to Danny, actually, after we finish this, because he's been on the receiving end of the most appalling abuse in the last 48 hours, all directed by Nick Fuentes, who was so dismissive of him, so dismissive of him talking about his mother and father, so just callous in the way he responded.

57:31It's that kind of utter devoidness of any empathy whatsoever.

57:36Piers Morgan:You can have a view that we should try and move on generationally from these seismic moments, OK, but you don't have to be so callous towards somebody whose family literally got murdered by people like Hitler and Stalin, do we? I mean... But the idea... Peter, I think the thing is, is, like, this generation of people grew up in the wake of the Iraq War, in the wake of endless war, in the wake of the destruction of their financial security with the 2008 financial crisis, with all the lies of COVID and Russiagate and all the rest of it. And faith and trust in these institutions have collapsed. So when they look at people who represent institutional thinking and they're told, you're not allowed to make fun of this and you're not allowed to talk about this and accept in the ways that we prescribe and we're going to call you all these names unless you affirm all these pieties over and over and over again.

58:23One of the ways of rebelling against that is to say, you know, it's a very common generational reaction is to say, F you, we're going to transgress every line that you told us we can't because we hate you. We think that the things that you're doing have been destructive to our lives. And I think like, ignoring that part of youth transgression, which is very common.

58:43Piers Morgan:You know what, Glenn? I think it's a very valid point. And there may well be a generational thing to this. Let me bring in Warren. Just for the record, by the way, Andrew, we've just been through the whole transcript and he never uses the excuse that you put. You may have heard him do it elsewhere. He talked about clergy, whether women should be allowed to be clergywomen and so on, and obviously they can't under the Catholic Church doctrine, but he never uses, he never says his celibacy is for religious reasons. That's his primary view. His primary view is he's supposed to wait until marriage.

59:16That may be his view, but he didn't

59:19Piers Morgan:express that view in my interview, is the point. We've just checked the transcript. Andrew was just saying, oh, I have the quote, I have the quote, and there's no quote. Look, I can't rule out he hasn't said it elsewhere, and it may be Andrew's heard him say that before. I'm just saying in my interview, he doesn't put... Sometimes on TV we can just say, you know what, I made a mistake. It's OK to be like, yeah, I got it wrong. I may have heard it elsewhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that. All right, let me bring Warren back in. Warren, you're a critical thinker.

59:47Piers Morgan:Glenn's stopped me in my tracks a little bit and made me think about this, right? Because I think there is probably a generational thing here, And I do think that in a way, you know, maybe Mark's right, that by me interviewing Fuentes, the only real winner at the end of the day may be Nick Fuentes, because none of his supporters, certainly from the reaction I've had, have changed their impression of him one iota. I mean, they just assumed he just landslided me and that was it, and I was an old boomer sent packing. And it may be, as Mark says, that other more moderate people quite like some of the things they heard.

1:00:21Piers Morgan:I don't know. He is charismatic. He's a good talker and he's smart and all these things. I don't dispute any of that. From a critical thinking point of view, where does this take society? If people like Nick Fuentes grow ever more popular, what will happen to a whole army of young men here? Last night, I held a focus group to try and get to the bottom of this. And I was with over 30 people, the vast majority, three disagreed with the vast majority. And what they were saying, things such as I went into this exchange not expecting to like anything about this guy. But what I saw was Pierce not contending with his arguments.

1:01:03I think that's why when you bring up his dad, that's why he gets upset because he's saying, look, man, I'm here. Let's talk. Why are you talking about my dad? Contend with my logic. It's the same thing when he, that was his response when you brought on your British friend who told his horrific story, which it's terrible. And you could disagree with his response to it, but I think he's saying, why are we, you're just telling me what you're saying is bad, but you're not really contending with the argument. And I think that is the core problem that has led to this outcome, because you can play these clips.

1:01:40There's nothing wrong with that. I don't think he was surprised by anything that occurred in here. That's another reason that you're seeing the backlash is because it was exactly what people predicted largely. But when you play that clip, it's like, okay, yes, that's taken from a large stream in the past people evolve. And if you, if you're asking him in that conversation to expand on that, and then he does, and he does present logic. What I'm seeing is people say, no, you're saying that now, but you're lying. You're playing this game. You're pretending to be moderate. And now your mind reading, you're saying, I know what Nick Fuentes thinks more than Nick Fuentes.

1:02:16And I do think it's really important in these exchanges to come at it with that first principle of, I'm going to take the wild approach that I'm going to wipe the slate blank and assume that the person who knows the most about what Nick Fuentes actually thinks is Nick Fuentes. And that seldom happens. And when it does, I do see, I saw a vastly different response to my conversation, but I don't think I challenged him any less.

1:02:39Piers Morgan:Right. You know what? It's very interesting. It's very interesting. I've been reading... I mean, I read and take note of the more nuanced commentary about it. I don't listen to the Groypers all ranting away or attacking me or my family or whatever. They can do what they like. They can do that the rest of their lives. They couldn't give a damn. But I do think there's a more... There are interesting arguments to be had about this because whether we like it or not, he is a phenomenon. He's a growing phenomenon. And young people are gravitating to him, and it may well be for the reasons that Glenn articulated.

1:03:08Piers Morgan:And how we, the rest of us, deal with this is a really interesting story. But that was a really interesting discussion. Thank you all very much. I appreciate it. Joining me now is Daniel Finkielstein from The Times. He wanted to address the anti-Semitism round with Nick Fuentes. Danny, I played a clip you sent me. We discussed this. You sent me like a 90-second video clip to play about your own family's horrific experience at the hands of Hitler and Stalin from your very powerful book. And I'd be struck by two things. One, his utterly dismissive reaction in the moment. But secondly, the horrible pylon that's been directed at you in the most mocking, awful manner.

1:03:48Piers Morgan:What's it been like for you? So that is a bit distressing. There's no two ways about it. But I suppose you have to understand that Hitler would never have come to power in the first place if there weren't a lot of people with that mentality. And that's all he's proving. His own response on the programme was, I think, the only thing that he sort of felt he could do. But I think he made a big mistake. I think he thinks, you know, he did, lived at large by admitting what... You know, kind of just saying to you, yeah, sure, I'm a racist. Sure, I don't like black people. Sure, I don't want women to vote.

1:04:19Piers Morgan:Sure, I think the Holocaust is fine. He thinks that he's winning out of that. But actually what he's doing ultimately is marginalising himself. So he does produce, as you've experienced and as I have, this kind of deep reaction where people interestingly repeated his jokes. So it was all like a bit of a cult. And I noticed that. And that is, that's not nice to receive. But I think it's worth it in order to try to expose the sort of person he is and to try to isolate him from the rest of the American right, which I'm very concerned about. And that's one of the reasons why I wanted you to go ahead and confront him in the way that you did, which I think was very effective, and why I wanted to join in with that.

1:04:57Piers Morgan:because I think it's really important that this kind of thinking doesn't go into the mainstream of the right. And he chose the path of deepening rather than widening, and that was a mistake. Yeah, he did. But it's whether he would see that as a mistake or whether he thinks, as he says, we're a couple of old boomers who just don't get it, who don't understand how young American men are thinking right now, and he's much more aware of how they are thinking about issues. Calling us boomers is like reconfiguring or rebadging his incredible ignorance and childishness as an asset. In fact, what was obvious is he hasn't got a foggiest clue what he's talking about and he doesn't know anything about...

1:05:36Piers Morgan:There was one brilliant bit where he said he thought Hitler was cool. He said, I'm not in favour of genocide, in parenthesis. Well, you actually are. And so he doesn't really understand anything about it, nor do his supporters. So they kind of dismiss it airily as, you know, a laugh and who cares what happened all that time ago and then calls us boomers as if you or I cared about that. So, yes, it's absolutely true. I've lived quite a bit longer than him in order that I've actually read more books, understood more and know more of what I'm talking about. So he was sensitive about his own ignorance and it came out in a kind of bragging way and then, of course, a load of other people pile on to support that as if they're unbothered by it.

1:06:27Piers Morgan:But he's made a mistake which he'll live to regret even though he's 27 now and hasn't lived very long to regret anything. What's happening with the kind of conservative movement in totality in America is fascinating. You're seeing splits within the MAGA movement, you're seeing others now developing like Fuentes and others outside of MAGA going very hostile on Trump and so on. You're seeing a lot of stuff going on here. What do you make of it? So the really fascinating thing is the split between your two interviewees, Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes. Ultimately, that actually is in fact what I'm really interested in producing.

1:07:04Piers Morgan:Tucker Carlson has gone wild. Some of the things that you laughed in his face when he said some of the things about the French. His ridiculous point about Poland, not understanding at all, Of course we had to enter the war before Hitler invaded us. Any historical account will show that we couldn't trust him or have a deal with him. And in fact, we had a contractual obligation to help Poland. And which we went into not simply because of Polish human rights, but because we understood strategically we had to do that. The American, by the way, did not do that and ended up being dragged into the war anyway.

1:07:37Piers Morgan:So Tucker Carlson's position was ridiculous, but it's not yet Nick Fuentes' position. His position is, I don't know why you British are that bothered about the Holocaust, but he's not actually in favour of it, which is the Fuentes position. Driving a wedge between those two things, making Tucker Carlson feel he can go that far, but he can't go as far. He can endorse a lot of cranks, but not Nick Fuentes. That is valuable and I think has been achieved by his interview with Fuentes, your interview with both of them. I just had a panel discussion about it where one of the panellists argued quite strongly, I shouldn't have platformed him at all, that actually all you end up doing is helping him grow his movement.

1:08:15I think that, you know, you and I have to recognise

1:08:18Piers Morgan:in our different media ways, we don't any longer, because of the way that internet works, have the power just to say, well, there's no-one listening to Nick Fuentes. He's got a platform. It's ridiculous to argue he hasn't got a platform. I agree. And I took the view, you know, and I know, you know, some people said this to you before you did the interview. That was not my position. and I think it was vindicated by what happened. It's important to expose what he thinks. We've all got to understand it. It's an important part of the development of the right in the United States and that may come also to Britain as well.

1:08:51Piers Morgan:We've got to understand it. We've got to listen to it carefully, see what its weak points are. So one of his clear weak points is cut off all women from supporting his position, right? Well, that's half the population to start off with. So he's making mistakes and making him talk on the record in a challenging way is part of forcing him to do that. Of course he can't see it. If he could see it, he wouldn't have made it, but he couldn't see it. Well, Danny, thank you. I hope it wasn't too bruising an experience to get involved in that. No, it was valuable. You know, I've had a lot of backlash to stuff over the years.

1:09:25Piers Morgan:This hasn't been the worst. I've had worse, but it's been pretty ferocious. I mean, if you get... It's quite bracing. You enter the world of Nick Fuentes and his Gruyper army, it's nasty. It's a nasty little cesspit. Absolutely. And you've got to have pretty broad shoulders to deal with it. You have. I have. So we'll continue to do our jobs. We will. Thank you very much. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, you can ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

1:10:00Piers Morgan:And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate, and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.

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