“He’s VENGEFUL!” Diana Butler SLAMS Earl Spencer And Defends King As Piers Morgan Plans To Sue

22:45Piers Morgan:I didn't call him bonkers to his face. No, but what you do say... Just to be clear about what you're talking about, when I was editor of the News of the World, again, an interesting insight to how he used to operate, he always saw himself as a journalist and media figure. I was editor of the News of the World, he thought one of his friends was leaking stories to us. He was right. Which he was, yeah. But what he did was he set the friend up with a fake story about him quitting Britain, quitting his wife and children, going to live and work in America. and he allowed us to run the story in the first edition.

23:12Piers Morgan:Then he called me to say, I've got you now, right? And all I remember thinking is, and we just turned the story around immediately and said, Earl Spencer's cruel con of News of the World readers, right? Yeah. All I could think of doing. But the interesting thing, he was happy for that story to appear. He could have called me before publication and once we went to him for confirmation and said, I've got you, right? Now I know who... He could have done that without the story ever appearing. There will still be people in Cornwall and Wales who are labouring under the massive misapprehension that in 1995, Earl Spencer quit his wife and kids to go and live in America because he allowed the fake story to actually be published.

23:50Piers Morgan:So, you know, it's complicated. But, but, let's just get this right. You called him, and I quote, a lying toe rag. Don't make me apologise to that prick. That's a quote. You said, this will probably have to be bleeped out, but you said, that'll teach Earl Spencer to fuck with us. When you praised, you did praise his eulogy, but you said, I don't like the guy with this. Now, you also say in your account of the conversation, he was seething with rage. In his account of the conversation, he doesn't say he was angry, but obviously you saw him as seething with rage. I said simmering. I could feel it in his voice.

24:24OK, I could sense the rage simmering in his voice. So I wrote it down. He wouldn't describe himself as angry. You saw him as angry. That's how you took the conversation. He saw you as resentful because, unsurprisingly, when you're invited by the Lord Chamberlain to go to the funeral, you're like, really? You know, this seems a bit weird. Did the Spencer family approve? And when he disinvited you, you said, you explained yourself, look, can I just say that this was when the Lord Chamberlain invited us? Yeah, but I did that very respectfully. He took, I don't doubt it, but he took it clearly as arguing the toss.

24:54I am not saying that you were arguing the toss, but he took it that way, and I think that is reasonable. I will also say, and I'm taking my life with my hands here, that although you did clearly not publish the intrusive photographs of Princess Diana, what you did do as the editor of the News of the World is publish very intrusive photographs of then-Councy Spencer at a clinic where she was getting treatment for bulimia and alcohol. Lord Spencer complained about you to the PCC and it was upheld. Hence you saying, I'll apologise to Countess Spencer, don't make me apologise to that prick. So although you didn't publish one set of intrusive photos, You did publish another, and you yourself say in the book, to be fair, Piers, you yourself say it was a mistake and I shouldn't have done it.

25:38Piers Morgan:As I've been saying all week, I'm not professing to be the Mother Teresa of Fleet Street, and I haven't been an editor for 20 years. I did make mistakes, bad ones, and I was rightly punished for them and admonished for them, and I also publicly apologised for them, and so on. So I was held to account for those things. My issue here is that he has rushed out an apology, and I didn't like him at the time, then he came to lunch and we got on very well, right? So this happens in our game, right? You and I. Exactly. In fact, you came out with some false claims about me from my book and you had to apologise.

26:11Piers Morgan:So if we're in the game of making public apologies for mistakes around books, you had to do that. 100%. So we all have our little cross to bear. And I don't dispute anything you've said. It's not really that. Let me bring John in here. It's not about that to me. It's about the credibility of him as a historian. and the moment you make a mistake of this nature and the scale of it, in my opinion, is pretty significant, it does call into question your credibility as an historian. No. I would love to say that there is nothing more important in the whole world than Piers Morgan and his relationship with Al Spencer.

26:48Piers Morgan:But I would be telling a lie. Yeah. The fact of the matter is that what this book is about is about his relationship with the king. You're able to answer back. you're able to say page by page, line by line, this is factually incorrect. The king is not in a position to be able to do that. He was able to issue a pre-bottle before the book came out saying, in general terms, you know, a sibling's grief, you know, memories may get clouded. That's all he could do. And so I don't want to feel sorry for the king when he's all-powerful, but what can he do when you have got a book like this coming out with the most egregious claims about his behaviour in the wake of the death of his ex-wife and in Earl Spencer's sister.

27:35Piers Morgan:And he can't fight back. He can't answer back. And I think there are some really fundamental questions. Yours are really important. But the fundamental questions seem to me about this is, can it be trusted that this is a fair account? He wasn't keeping a diary, as we understand it. He told friends. It's 29 years later. I mean, do I remember every conversation I had from 29 years ago? Not really. And would I have put them in quotation marks? I probably wouldn't. So that... You said you would never seek to make money out of your sister. I mean, you've said that if you win this libel action, any money is going to the King's Trust.

28:14Piers Morgan:Do we know what's going to happen to the money that is coming in? The millions that are going to come in. The millions that are going to come in. Yeah. No, we don't. And he was on camera, I will never profit from my sister. Exactly. And he castigated all those who did. So I think that there are really fundamental questions. Yeah. I mean, he's done some interviews. I think there are still some pretty searching questions for Earl Spencer to answer. Look, I know he's a member of the aristocracy. I know he lives in this fantastic mansion. You know, all through. It's stunning, I'm sure. But he is a bloke who's publishing a book with some very contentious claims.

28:51Piers Morgan:And if you're doing an interview with him, you've surely got to do an accountability interview where you say, I'm sorry, we've got to put this to you. What about the money? Why are you doing this 29 years after she died? How can the king possibly respond to these claims when he's sitting on the throne? How can you, with a straight face, say, I didn't want to attack the king, when the main headline that preempts the serialisation is you launching the most vicious attack on the king imaginable? Piers, you said it yourself, that he badges himself as a historian, yeah? He also badges himself as a journalist.

29:22Piers Morgan:And if you write something down and you've got a journalist sense, you know what the headline is. And we haven't even got to his little lunch with Diana where she says, I've got to get divorced because Charles is in love with his valet, right? Just drops this in. Now, we in Fleet Street all knew about this rumour. I think it was a ridiculous, untrue rumour about Charles' supposed relationship with this valet. We know who the valet was. I won't repeat it here. But I know all about this. But he just casually puts this in, again, as an historian, and then says, well, I don't know if it's true or not.

29:53Piers Morgan:Well, a genuine historian wouldn't just fly a rumour suggesting that King Charles is secretly gay and having an affair with his valet without actually thinking, maybe as a historian, I shouldn't put that in. Also, you and I have both written books. We know when serialisation is up... Of course! ..what bits are going to be taken out for serial. And did he complain, by the way, when that line was the main headline? Or did he say to the Daily Mail, no, you shouldn't have this... Or did he ring the publishers and say, print more copies? Right? Let me bring Paul Burrell back in here. Paul, you know the thing I'm really thinking about is, what would Diana have thought about this if she was still alive?

30:34Piers Morgan:And obviously it doesn't quite work that way because a lot of what he's talking about is post her death. But I can't imagine that Diana would have wanted her brother to launch such a vicious attack on Charles. You know, I had some moments with Dinah about Charles, and I always remember this one, that when the Dimbleby, Jonathan Dimbleby book came out about Charles, the authorised biography, and there was a remarkable line in there, which they were told they couldn't use as a headline, but it said that in the book it becomes clear that Charles was never really in love with Dinah. She got somebody to call me at the News of the World and said, that's completely untrue.

31:13Piers Morgan:you have photographs of our secret second honeymoon in your safe, which we asked you not to run at the time, and the News of the World didn't. You now have my permission to run them. And there were pictures of them in the ocean, very loving, kissing, cuddling and everything else in the ocean. We ran them over a number of pages with the headline, the proof that Charles did love Diana, and she loved it. And that showed to me, here was a young woman who married very young to a much older guy, who was in love with somebody else, couldn't be with her. It's like a Shakespearean tragedy in a way. But it really meant a lot to Diana that she loved him.

31:53Piers Morgan:And towards the very end, and you would be the best person to ask, towards the very end, they had some quite poignant, happy times together, fleeting, right? They did. And I remember the time when he came to the door and he wrote the doorbell and answered the doorbell and he stood there. And he said, is the princess in? I said, she's upstairs, Your Old Highness. I said, well, can I see her? So I said, well, this way. He says, I know the way. So he barged past me and up the staircase into her room, and she wasn't there. And I nipped down to the dressing room and said, you'd never guess who's here.

32:23He's come to see you. What's he doing here? He hasn't come to take away more furniture, has he? He said, I don't know what he wants. She said, what does my hair look like? I'm like, do I look all right? Do I look? I said, you look great. Go on, go on. Kill him. So she went across the corridor and, Charles, how lovely to see you. oh, it's been so long. This was a couple who had matured in years and accepted each other's positions in life. She'd accepted the fact that Camilla was the love of his life. She always loved him, always. Until the very end, she loved him. She was the mother of his children.

33:02She loved him. And whatever love is, his famous quote, in his world, he couldn't quite quantify what love was between Camilla and Diana. They were two very different loves, but he did love her in his own way.

33:18Piers Morgan:So what do, just back to my question. You're not worried about hosting for the holidays? Oh, Wayfair's got me covered with holiday decor, extra dining chairs, and guest bedding, all with tons of five-star reviews, so there's no surprises. Unless Uncle Matt brings his dogs again. For worry-free hosting, Wayfair delivers. What do you think she would have made of this book coming out now with what it's doing? It would never have happened. Or I would hope it would never have happened. She would say, think about my boys, Charles. Think about the rest of my family and the troubles they're going through at the moment.

33:51This is not going to help them. It's not going to help William. He's on his path to becoming king. It's not going to help Harry, who's in a mess at the moment. So she would ask him not to write it. I think that would be the best path forward. Interestingly, when you... Interestingly, I thought about Robert Fellows, today, because I thought if Robert Fellows was alive today, that book would not have been written, because he would have stood up in the Queen's Corner.

34:17Piers Morgan:And, you know, I'm reminded, Paul, as you're talking, that in Harry's memoir, Spare, he described how he believed you were milking her death for money when he wrote your book, A Royal Duty, adding it made my blood boil. I mean, again, the brass neck. The brass neck to do that. I had to go to the highest court in the land. I had to suffer two weeks of prosecution and never have a defence and I was set free by Her Majesty the Queen herself. You were. Never before. When you see Harry and now Spencer both doing the opposite of what they said they would ever do, both making money out of Diana. We now hear that Harry's working on some documentary about it for the 30th anniversary.

35:00Piers Morgan:He's cleared the path for Harry now. He's set the stage for Harry. Now having written his book, the stage is clear now for Harry to do his documentary. And that's why I feel that Harry has fallen into the Spencer camp. Katie, you know, we've covered the royals for a long time, right? I don't dispute that Spencer has a right to write the book. I do think it's important to remember what he said in 1998. Can you imagine anybody making a profit at their brother or sister's death? It's so low, it's inconceivable. I don't know anyone who would. I will never profit from Diana's death. How does that square with this?

35:38How does that square with Harry and William both saying on the 20th anniversary, this is the last time we're going to speak about our mother and now we know that Harry is going to be working on a documentary ahead of the 30th anniversary? It's... I have to say, I think Paul hits it absolutely on the head when he says this is about them. You know, even in death 30 years on, sort of squabbling over who is going to reclaim this narrative, who is going to be the closest, the one to be able to tell her story. And it really just does come across, I think, as very unedifying when all they said they wanted was for Diana to rest in peace.

36:15Well, that's the very last thing that's happening.

36:18Piers Morgan:I mean, Louise, do you believe that his motivation is really about paying tribute to Diana? How does that square with these stories about the lottery winning, you know, giddiness and so on? I mean, no-one writes that if your motivation is to say what a lovely person Diana is. You're doing it because you want to get maximum damaging headlines against her ex-husband, who's now the king. Look, obviously, Lord Spencer is extremely angry with the royal family and blames Prince Charles immensely, as he then was, for what he did with Camilla and feels that his sister was betrayed and he cares very much about it.

36:52Piers Morgan:I mean, Diana had loads of affairs too. She did indeed. I mean, loads of affairs. Indeed. There are some that I know about that no-one knows about. Including with Julia Carling, Will Carling, who at the time, his wife, the then-wife, was my constituent. James Hewitt, Oliver Hall, I mean... Absolutely. Look, none of us are perfect, including members of the royal family, including Princess Diana, including Charles Spencer, including you and me, right? That's absolutely true. But he did actually mention, when he said part of his motivation for writing this book was that he'd been asked by his nephew, asked by a nephew, to contribute to a forthcoming documentary, and he didn't want other people to be able to frame it.

37:29He wanted to be able to put his recollections of his history in his own way. Is he making money? Yes, he is. But he's also just sold a small part of Althorpe's estate for 60 million quid. So I really don't think that money is the primary motivation here. I think it's been 30 years. He's bottled it up. He's written, most recently, a book about the abusive school that he went to as a young boy. Which was powerful. It was powerful. I think he's partly doing this for his own mental health to get his version of it out, as you would say, uncensored, what he believes and what he has. And as far as their estrangement, let's not forget that Diana did say in her will that she left Spencer, if anything happened to Charles, as the guardian of her children.

38:09So that estrangement cannot have been that much. She didn't leave her two sisters the guardians of her children, she left just her brother. So sometimes we all have fights in our families, lots of your viewers are going to have fights in their families. The fundamental love was still there, and I think that's what we should remember. at this time when we're going backwards and forwards about who said what to whom?

38:27Piers Morgan:Yeah, John, you know, there's going to be a lot of fallout from this, obviously. I guess the question is how damaging ultimately it may be to King Charles or otherwise. I think public opinion is siding a lot more with him, actually, over all this than it is with Spencer at the moment. You know, Charles, King Charles, not a perfect man. He's committed to many failings and faults. Earl Spencer is not a perfect person. It is a family here, albeit one that lives in the biggest soap opera bubble of them all. What do you feel about the sort of consequences of this book? Yeah, that's a really interesting question, because I think the consequences are different in different geographical territories.

39:06Piers Morgan:I mean, I was always struck when I was based in America, in Washington, how even the most sophisticated Washingtonians who were part of, you know, the political circles and foreign policy elite would say, what do you think about the way Charles treated Diana? I was thinking, hang on, that was 20 years ago. What do you mean? we're not talking about that in Britain anymore. He's married Camilla, she's, you know, etc, etc. We've moved on. I suspect in America this will play very powerfully of what Charles Spencer has said. I think in Britain, I think you're absolutely right, the sympathy will be with the king as yet another drama is played out in public.

39:42And I can't just help kind of thinking about the irony

39:45Piers Morgan:that you've got people talking about the invasion of privacy and that these people are not allowed to live their lives and their privacy is invaded by a terrible press and, let's face it, the press have been terrible at times. But isn't this an invasion of the privacy? Aren't these books that are authored by the key players? Nobody has invaded royal privacy more than Harry did with his book. Nobody. Or the Oprah Winfrey interview, whatever. That was the biggest inside hatchet job we've ever seen. You know, the newspapers and stuff would rely on sources and tips and so on. but you're on the outside peering in over the palace gate walls, right?

40:23Piers Morgan:In Harry's case, he's the insider, spray-gunning them all. I mean, the thing that always lived with me was the way that he revealed in his book private conversations that took place at Prince Philip's funeral between him, William and Charles. Think about that. More intrusive. Spencer's done exactly the same. Yeah. He has done exactly the same. And to the point you're making, because I write for Vanity Fair, I see the impact on an international audience. This isn't a constitutional crisis. I'm not saying that. But the fact that we're all here talking, the fact that, Piers, you're making headlines around the world, shows the power of Diana 30 years on.

40:58Yes. And the damage that can be done if the king is seen to have been that uncompassionate, to not have that empathy, it doesn't matter that it's 30 years on. It still has a huge impact.

41:11Piers Morgan:And here's the key point. And he knows it. He knows it. He knows it. As a journalist and historian, he knew the power of what he was saying and that's why he put it in the book. And Penguin knew it, which is why they were very happy for this to be the lead headlines that came out of it. Paul, let me come back to you. I mean, the other line, of course, which got huge attention was Charles supposedly saying, we'll forget about her soon. That was 1997. That was never going to happen. We're still talking about Diana. We will be for centuries to come. She was a completely mesmerising, mercurial, complex, but extraordinary figure.

41:46Piers Morgan:I mean, the biggest celebrity I've ever seen in my lifetime, with the possible exception of Donald Trump now. But she was. She was a global superstar. I said to her once, did you ever wish you could just be anonymous again? She went, where would I go? She said, I could go to Iceland and be in an igloo, and an Eskimo would say, you're Princess Diana. And it really struck me that, you know? And the other thing I remember, she took me to the window and she said, look, there's the National Enquirer motorbike. She went through all the paparazzi and the mainly American crews, actually, that used to hang around and follow her.

42:21Piers Morgan:And she said, every time I go out... As you know, loads of ways to get out of the palace. And every time I leave, you know, we're in a chase. And I went, you could give them a slip if you wanted to. And she was a police-trained driver. She was a brilliant driver, got police-trained. and she gave me the distinct impression she liked running around London with these guys because it cheered up a boring wet Wednesday. So part of her was like torn between hating them and thinking, well, actually, this could be a bit of fun on a Wednesday. But she knew what the game was, Pierce. She knew how to play it.

42:56And that's why she invited you to Kensington Palace because she wanted to hear what you thought and she wanted to tell you personally what she felt. and so the two of you could come together and give something good. And that was unprecedented back in the day. And what you have to think is you now have to look through the eyes of those times, the 80s. That was a very different time to now. And we all are in the danger of looking through today's eyes at this subject. Go back and see how she struggled, see how she fought it. and Harry should have known better to do what he did because he was taught by the best tutor you could ever have, his mummy.

43:40She taught him exactly what to do and how to do it and his job was to be William's wingman and he's forgotten it.

43:48Piers Morgan:And you know who's behaving with incredible dignity right now? Prince William. William, yes. I mean, I take my hat off to the provocation he must be under to respond. William and Catherine are exceptional. I totally agree. I want to end on a purely selfish personal note, Paul, for you to clear something up that was published in the Daily Mail's diary today, the gossip column, from the former chef, Darren Brady, who was the chef who I think prepared our meal that day. Yes, and he would know everything, wouldn't he? Well, this is what I want to ask you, because apparently, according to the Mail, he quotes Diana as saying that I was a jerk after lunch.

44:24Piers Morgan:Is that your recollection? Because I thought lunch went really well. That is not my recollection. Piers, stop it. that he should behave himself too, because that is not my recollection. No, you know it's not. You know you won her over, and you know that. Thank you, Paul Burrell. You see, you're the kind of historian that I think we should hear more from. That's the truth! That was my recollection, because we did get on great. You did, like a house on fire. And we spoke a lot, you know, and it was... You did. Again, a part of it, I slightly resent what he's trying to position himself as the great, you know, protector against the all-powerful, nasty, vile media.

45:06Piers Morgan:She had a very similar relationship with Richard Kay, another journalist that she respected and got on with. You know, I never claimed to be a friend of hers, but we were friendly. And we worked out a way of working together where... I don't want to blow smoke in your direction, but she liked you. You know what? Thank you, Paul. That's better than hearing she thought I was a jerk. And by the way, Darren McGrady, the food wasn't great. LAUGHTER I'm just saying. Did you have baked beans? I've got to say, the butler service was fantastic. And the lunch companions were great. You and your cooking can do one.

45:42Piers Morgan:If anything, ironically, I would have preferred a nice slab of jerk chicken. Thank you to my panel. Really appreciate it. It's a fascinating story. It's going to roll and roll. We have a new episode, Katie, tomorrow. Dropping of Royals Uncensored, the fastest-growing royal show in the world. Huge numbers you guys are getting. Very proud of you. Keep it up. And, you know, if you can't do numbers when this is all going, you never will. It's extraordinary, isn't it? Just when we think the royals are calming down, people are losing interest. Bang. Here we are. Front page news all over the world. Paul, thank you in particular.

46:14Piers Morgan:You're welcome. Really appreciate you giving me the first interview. I've been really fascinated to hear what you had to say about all this. And you haven't disappointed. I kept quiet until you came along. Yeah. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. And I found all of what you said very powerful, particularly about Charles' state of mind in the aftermath of the death. So, really important contribution to the debate. Thank you very much. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

46:50Piers Morgan:And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. and we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.

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