“Hit The Other Cheek - I Can Take It!” MAGA Christians Under ATTACK? | With Andrew Wilson

0:00Andrew Wilson:You have to bring back religion to America because without borders, law and order and religion, you really don't have a country anymore. We want religion brought back. So the very foundation of the United States of America was indeed to be one nation under God. Nothing could have prepared me for the slew of attack against anyone who is a conservative Christian in America. Right wing Christianity in America has been suckered for a very long time into aligning with power and authority instead of challenging it as Christ did. Donald Trump didn't get the love of evangelicals by promising to do a damn thing Jesus commanded of us.

0:34Andrew Wilson:Right-wing Christianity does not fight for the things Jesus commanded and taught us to do. We're not doing the persecuting doofus. So the thing is, it's so funny here, it's like, even when we have full-spectrum dominance, Jesus called people vipers like you. Dude, hit the other cheek, I can take it.

0:53Piers Morgan:The fatal attack on a Mormon church in Michigan this weekend was interpreted by some as more evidence of a very little attack on Christianity and its values. Benny Johnson commented that Christianity is the most persecuted religion on earth and that it's time to get serious about it. It came just a week after Charlie Kirk's memorial, of which he was hailed as both a prophet and a martyr in a service infused with abundant biblical commentary. For some, all this points to an overdue revival of Christian values in a culture which is sought to eradicate them. But others are warning about a rise in so-called Christian nationalism, a hardline supremacist movement which uses faith as a fig leaf of uncompromising views, threatening to undermine the separation of church and state.

1:31Piers Morgan:We're going to debate this with three Christians, one a proud Christian nationalist, one a young moderate, and one who says conservatives have hijacked Christianity for their own malicious ends. This is Andrew Wilson, the host of The Crucible, John Fuglesang, author of Separation of Church and Hate, unpacking extremist politics, religion, and the urgent struggle for a compassionate America. And the host of the Isabel Brown Show on Daily Wire, and close friend of Charlie Kirk, Isabel Brown. Well, welcome to all three of you. Andrew Wilson. Donald Trump came out over the weekend and called this latest attack on the church in Michigan an attack on Christians in a post on his Truth Social platform.

2:09Piers Morgan:We don't actually know, as things stand, whether that was the motivation. We know that the suspect who died in all this was a former US Marine, Thomas Jacob Sanford, and he had been pictured wearing a Trump T-shirt with the slogan, Make Liberals Cry Again, which may be an indication that he wasn't anti-Trump. We just don't know, as things stand, what his motivation was for this. As so often with these kind of incidents, I always think it's prudent to take a beat and just try and see if more information comes out as to why he may have done this. But Trump has gone out there on the attack, as he often does, and said, this is an attack on Christians.

2:47Piers Morgan:What do you feel?

2:49Andrew Wilson:Well, I mean, Trump is just following the trends. We remember what happened with Charlie Kirk when progressives tried to paint him as some right wing graper. Turns out that that was all complete and total lies. They were doing damage control. They tried to paint him out to be a right winger, clear up until it became irrefutable that he was not anymore. And then they just changed the narrative again. So Trump is just following the trends. It is the case that Christians are persecuted in the United States, have been for a long time. and they're going to continue to be. That's kind of our cross to bear.

3:21Andrew Wilson:We were told that that was going to be the case, in fact. That's part of what being a Christian is. As to Trump following the trends and making the assumption, do I kind of agree that you should have caution on these things? I do, but I can completely understand why it would be that he would have that reaction.

3:36Piers Morgan:John Fuglsang, Benny Johnson posted about this attack on the church in Michigan. If a mosque was shut up every month, it would be a crisis for Muslims. If a synagogue was shut up every month, there'd be a crisis for Jews. If a temple were shot up every month, there'd be a crisis for Hindus. Christians, this is happening to us. Christianity is under attack. It's time to get serious about it. What's your response to that?

4:00Andrew Wilson:I keep hoping that one of these preventable attacks will inspire our Christian friends on the right to want to make it a little bit harder for unstable white men to easily get weapons that are designed to kill lots of people really fast. I really hoped after the awful murder of Mr. Kirk that some of our friends on the right would agree that maybe it's far too easy for unstable 20-something males to get their hands on hardware and pop off and murder people at a political rally. He was using an antique rifle, dude. Hang on, he was using an antique rifle. I know. It didn't belong to him. It was unsecured.

4:33Andrew Wilson:Legislation. I didn't interrupt you once, my friend. I didn't interrupt you one time. What legislation do you think would have even been passed that would prevent it? If his grandfather had been legally obliged to keep his gun secured at home, that shooting wouldn't have happened, and the Sandy Hook shooting would not have happened. You can't even demonstrate that's true. Paul, you know the kid has the safe code. You're not letting me finish, and you've interrupted me twice now. Piers, the deal is right-wing Christianity in America has been suckered, and you're really going to—I'm going to answer Piers' question, my friend.

5:05Andrew Wilson:I didn't interrupt you. Right-wing Christianity in America has been suckered for a very long time into aligning with power and authority instead of challenging it as Christ did. Donald Trump didn't get the love of evangelicals by promising to do a damn thing Jesus commanded of us. Right-wing Christianity does not fight for the things Jesus commanded and taught us to do. Right-wing Christianity fights for conservative Christian power over every level of society. They do not fight to welcome the stranger as Christ commands in Matthew 25 and as God commands throughout the Old Testament. They do not fight for individuals and nations to care for the sick and the poor as commanded by Christ in the judgment of nations.

5:45Andrew Wilson:They fight for right wing conservative Christian power. And America is suffering from a gun plague where children are now killed by guns more than disease, more than they are killed by car accidents. and I keep praying this is exactly the sort of situation where religion, based on love and empathy, will come to our rescue. And yet, our conservative Christian friends are locked in this mindset that somehow personal freedoms matter more than the lives of Americans.

6:14Piers Morgan:Isabel, you've been pulling... Andrew, I'll come back to you, but let Isabel react because you've been pulling a lot of faces as you were listening to that.

6:22Andrew Wilson:Yeah, you know, Piers, I was on with you the day that Charlie was shot, actually. we were talking about the murder of Irina Zarutska on the train in Charlotte, and I was very baffled by what I was hearing then. Nothing could have prepared me for the slew of attack against anyone who is a conservative Christian in America the last 30 seconds. There is not a single gun law on the books that would have prevented Charlie Kirk from being assassinated at a gun-free zone on the campus of Utah Valley University. When we saw the manifesto published to YouTube about the shooter at the Annunciation Catholic School in Minneapolis, you saw a very specific detailed attack that was specifically against Christian children and their families, really warping in a very twisted demonic sense the mass with engravings and diary entries saying, this is my body.

7:08Andrew Wilson:I mean, we're watching a very coordinated attack going back to the Nashville shooting and to many other attacks on churches across the country over the past few years, of which there have been more than 500 attacks on Catholic churches in the United States in the last five years or so. This is clearly a specific attack against Christianity in America, but let's pretend that it's not just about America for a second, because the truth is it's not. Christianity, by the numbers, is by far and large the most persecuted religion on the face of the planet today. In Nigeria, just a few days ago, more than 60 people were killed using hammers and machetes after attending mass at a Catholic church there in Nigeria.

7:44Andrew Wilson:And I read a study the other day, feel free to fact check me on this to any of the other panelists, that more Christians have been slaughtered in Nigeria for being Christian in the last few years than Palestinians have been killed in Gaza during the midst of the Israeli-Gaza war. But you don't see any protests happening in the United States about that today. So it's ridiculous to try to create a left versus right paradigm here or some sort of attack against the Republican Party when there very clearly is a manifestation of spiritual warfare and demonic satanic influence in our society trying to attack Jesus Christ in America today.

8:15Piers Morgan:Andrew, I want to play a clip. I'm not a Democrat. I'm going to let Andrew respond here. Chris Hedge, a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, said on the Secular Talk podcast that Charlie Kirk's assassination was being used to create a new martyr for the movement of Christian nationalism, which he said is a backdoor to American fascism. Let's take a look. When fascism comes to America, it won't be with swastikas and jackboots. It will be with the Christian cross and mass recitations of the Pledge of Allegiance. You really got a glimpse of that in the rally in Arizona for a rally, whatever you want to call it, the memorial service for Kirk.

8:57Piers Morgan:Now, Andrew, two questions for you. One is, what is your understanding of what Christian nationalism is? And as a Christian nationalist, are you concerned that it gets hijacked by people who may genuinely be white supremacists, fascists and so on?

9:15Andrew Wilson:Well, not really. So the idea of Christian nationalism is just that Christians remain the culturally dominant force in the United States. That's it. That's the entire proposition. Everything else is in addition. So the gentleman over here, for instance, got a quick question for you. Is Jesus Christ God? I believe so, but I don't believe in imposing my opinions on others. Okay, gotcha. So Jesus Christ is God. So all the religions are false? no i don't believe that at all i believe in my house there are many mansions so here's god has many ways of the truth yeah i don't think i'm better than anyone because christ's movement is about humility christ's movement is not about public domination and so i just want to make sure i got this right are are all other religions false i don't believe that at all no and i don't believe right-wing christianity is true either your is this right-wing christianity does not answer my question dude is Islam true is Islam true Islam believes in the same God as Christians do you believe we should welcome the stranger as God in Christ's command or do you believe in Donald Trump wait wait they believe Jesus Christ is God it's not my religion they believe Christ is a prophet the Virgin Mary is mentioned more in the Holy Quran than she's mentioned in the Bible I'm gonna I'm gonna walk you through the logic here if Jesus Christ is God what are the Christ teachings that Trump fights for, my friend.

10:35Andrew Wilson:Then it is the case that Islam... What are the gospel teachings your movement fights for? Your movement uses Christ as a prop and you legislate against his commands. Stop filibustering. Dude, you interrupted me. So I was in the middle of it. I asked you a single question and was getting to the follow-up, and you go on these long diatribes. Calm down, listen to what I'm saying. You asked two questions, my friend. Logically, if it's the case that Jesus Christ is God and that is true, that Islam has to be false, and you have to proclaim that. That is the case as a follower of Christ. It's too bad the founding fathers didn't have that system in our country.

11:08Andrew Wilson:Well, the thing is so funny is that you say that you're a progressive Catholic. You're worried about Christians in power. You say that Christians are out here. Oh, Andrew, Christians are out here. They should be looking at these other immigrants as religious refugees. That's what you said, your own words. They're actually Christian refugees at our border. They are Christian refugees that y 'all have been socialized to call illegals. Then how come you lobbied for Kamala Harris, raised money for the Harris campaign, as a Democrat operative, when she said that she wanted staunch border policies, she literally went to Guatemala and said, you're not allowed to come.

11:43Andrew Wilson:Do not come. I know she did. I'm not a Democrat, my friend. I'm not a Democrat. Her policies cause less harm than Trump's. You happen to be a Democrat operative raising money for Kamala Harris, though. Her policies cause less harm than Trump's, my friend. And her policies were closer to the actual teachings of Christ than Trump. Let me ask you a question. That would be the exact same logic that we would have. May I respectfully ask you one question? You're such a hypocrite, by the way. Hypocrite. May I please ask you one question now that you've asked me so many and now that you've called me names?

12:12Andrew Wilson:Dude, hit the other cheek. I can take it. Call me more names. I want to ask you something. Please tell me one actual gospel commandment or teaching of Christ. Total liar, complete fraud. Please tell me one actual gospel. Please tell us all and the viewers watching one actual gospel commandment or teaching of Christ. that the MAGA movement fights for. Not what conservative Christians like. Something Christ, who is a mascot to this movement, actually commanded of us. Chapter and verse, if you can. Welcome the stranger. Individuals and nations take care of the poor. Stop executing people. Do you want me to answer the question, then?

12:45Andrew Wilson:Please do. Do you want me to answer, or are you going to answer? So the truth of the matter is, if you're really as concerned with the poor as you claim, you would be all about the MAGA movement, who's trying to stop job crushing immigration to the United States. I'm giving it to you. Calm down. Christ commands us to welcome us. Calm down so I can answer your question, lunatic. I'm going to answer it precisely. Here's how it works. If it is the case that you make these bold claims like you do in your book, that Christians ought to be paying taxes for the poor, so that we could, for the poor, we got to give it all to the poor.

13:17Andrew Wilson:That's what your view is. That's not my suggestion, bro. That's Jesus' suggestion. Then it would be the case that you would not want these job-crushing waves of mass migration come to the United States, which displace the poor. They displace the poor. I just explained to you that if it's the case, I just did. I just explained to you if you really want to uplift the poor, you don't do it with crushing mass migration crazy. What Jesus teaching did you explain? I just explained to you that by your view of what Christians ought to be doing, we are doing it. Do you not understand this? Christ says that individuals and nations will be judged.

13:53Andrew Wilson:Christ says in Matthew 25 that individuals and nations will be judged, heaven or hell, by how they care for the sick, care for the poor, welcome the stranger, and care for those in prison. MAGA legislates and votes against these commandments of Jesus. And what was the Kamala Harris Christian doctrine that you were for? Kamala Harris is closer by light years to the teachings of Christ than the Republican Party, but I don't consider the Democrats. I'm not a Democrat. where you view on the treatment of immigrants on the on the racism on women's equality time out helping the poor on making health care more accessible on having less gun violence i could do it all day my friend all right so cry was that the was that the epistle hang on let isabel talk thou shalt not have guns gentlemen let the lady on the panel talk please isabel i think this is precisely the problem because it just goes to show how in western society today, we are living in two completely alternate realities, largely based on the media that we are consuming, where you genuinely see this belief parroted among very mainstream Christians that the teachings and the policies of someone like Kamala Harris, who actively told Christians at her own rally, you folks are at the wrong rally.

15:04Andrew Wilson:Please leave. There is no place for you here. She told hecklers that. That her policies would have been better for the United States of America. This is a woman who championed the abortion of more than one million people per year in the United States of America, including through all nine months of pregnancy and partial birth abortion. The Bible's not against abortion. In the sanctity of life, especially as the Catholic Church, I should know myself, and maybe it's time to crack open a catechism to remind ourselves of that. Abortions are legal and free in Israel right now. Judaism doesn't ban them.

15:34Andrew Wilson:Promoting actual immigration policy. From that very Christian nation of Israel. And when it comes to centering immigration policy. Christ's religion doesn't ban abortion. It starts with stopping the horrifying human trafficking of children and the rape of babies and toddlers that happens on the southern border every day. When it starts by lifting people out of poverty, it starts by giving people actual positions of employment that give them a long-term trajectory for financial success. Yes, these are Christian values, but our twisted, disgusting media in America and beyond has allowed for a very inverse reaction from Christians to believe in this version of toxic empathy where we are supposed to tolerate and endorse evil and call that following Christ.

16:16Andrew Wilson:And I think the last few weeks have been a really powerful example for Christians around the world to realise we no longer can tolerate demonic evil in the spiritual warfare.

16:24Piers Morgan:How did you feel, Isabel, just on that point, How did you feel when at Charlie Kirk's memorial, his widow Erica made an incredibly powerful announcement of forgiving the killer of her husband, but then Donald Trump followed and said he hates his enemies and is still trying to work on the forgiveness bit? What did you feel? As a Christian, what did you feel about the two exchanges?

16:50Andrew Wilson:Yeah, sure. If you listen to the president's full speech, he goes on to laugh about that and it clearly was delivered as a joke. I'm not here to speak for the president. No, I think he meant it. I don't think he was joking. Just based on every single speech that was given at that event other than the president's, and if you took the time to watch all six hours of it, you can see this was not a rah-rah-rah right-wing political rally. Every single speaker, including President Trump, took their time on stage to spread the gospel, to share love of God, to say we can no longer be afraid of proclaiming our faith in the world based on an potential political backlash.

17:21Andrew Wilson:And I saw one particular take that really bothered me from Destiny, who I know has been a common guest here on the Piers Morgan Show, of people saying, you know, this was indicative of a Nazi rally. This was completely indistinguishable from a Nazi rally led by Adolf Hitler. I don't know the last time a Nazi rally encouraged you to forgive your enemies and the people who violently assassinate your husband. Well, also, also...

17:44Piers Morgan:Only one speaker said. Well, hang on, just to be clear, also, there were a lot of Jewish people at this so-called Nazi rally, which, a bit like the Madison Square Garden rally before the election, when they tried to call that the new version of the 1938 rally at MSJ was completely absurd. There was actually a Holocaust survivor sitting in the front row. Let me come back on this issue, if I may, John, to your book and your interpretation of Christian nationalism. I want to just quote the definition that you give of it on page 20 of your book. At its core, Christian nationalism is the belief that the United States was founded as a Christian nation and should remain one today with laws and policies guided by a particular vision of Christianity.

18:26Piers Morgan:Unlike ordinary religious faith, which is personal and spiritual, Christian nationalism is political. It merges national identity with religious identity and insists it to be a true American is to be a true Christian and vice versa. I suppose what I would say to that is America historically has been a Christian country. 62 % of Americans today are Christian, which is nearly two-thirds of the country. 90 % in the 90s. Yeah, but my point being that it is still a large majority Christian nation. Yes, it is, and yet they constantly are under siege. The idea that all of them are being political by identifying as Christian nationalists.

19:03Piers Morgan:Didn't say that. No, no, I'm just saying, if you extrapolate your statement that it's the Christian nationalists that is political, all those people would identify, I would think, as Christian nationalists, right? UNCENSORED IS SUPPORTED BY ONE SKIN, A SELF-CARE BUSINESS FOUNDED BY SCIENTISTS. THEIR PATENTED OS1 PEPTIDE IS SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN TO TARGET AGEING AT THE CELLULAR LEVEL. IT'S WHAT POWERS THEIR SKIN AND SUN CARE PRODUCTS. NOW IT'S TARGETING AGE-RELATED HAIR LOSS AND THINNING, TOO. ONE SKIN SCALP SERUM, OS1 HAIR, IS GETTING RAVE REVIEWS, AS YOU CAN READ FOR YOURSELF. And it's not just talk.

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21:03Andrew Wilson:Well, only about 30 % of the country identifies with the main traits of Christian nationalism, and yet they make up two-thirds of the Supreme Court. But it is a very powerful movement that seeks to insert a very narrow, again, Christ-free version of Christianity onto every level of our government. The Founding Fathers were very thorough about this. Our official religion is all and or none. And if you are fighting against other religions because you think you're superior because of Jesus, then you don't actually follow Jesus because his entire movement was about humility, uplifting the less fortunate, fighting for the marginalized, not total right-wing domination of politics or the school board.

21:44Andrew Wilson:Again, I don't see any actual teachings of Christ that the right-wing fights for. The only thing Donald Trump and Jesus have in common is they both spent a lot of time around hookers and they both used ghostwriters.