"I'll NEVER Trust Him" President Zelensky on Trump, Putin, Paralympics & Why Russia Should Apologize

27:50Piers Morgan:I guess the obvious question, President Zelensky, is would you trust Vladimir Putin? You have suggested that you would be prepared to meet with him leader to leader. And at some stage, I guess that has to happen for a peace deal to be done. Would you trust him if he gave you his word? I found it very interesting at the time, but this is a long time ago. This is early Putin. But I found it very interesting that Bill Clinton said, however rough stuff got in public, that if Putin gave him his word, he always kept it. Would you feel confident that Putin would keep his word to you?

28:30Piers Morgan:Of course not. with all respect to President Clinton and to other partners. I mean, he never had the war against Russia. So he never been, God bless, I mean, he's never been in such circumstances and relations as we have. We don't have any diplomatic relations with Russia. we have now war dialogue, which just began. Dialogue during the war. And I mean, it's not even me. I mean, it's on the technical level of our teams. And we are enemies. I think he, of course, I can't trust the person who killed so many people in Ukraine and who began full-scale invasion against my nation. And we answered, you know, that we spoke about it today.

29:38Piers Morgan:He attacked all our civilians, infrastructure, people, schools, and et cetera. And, of course, we answered to them, but not on civilians. Everybody knows about it. But in any way, he understands, I think he understands who I am and I understand who is he. And that's why I will not trust him. That's why I have more specific dialogue with him. It's not about trust. It's about to decide how to end the war. I'm not sure that our teams can really decide the question of the land. Of course, it's up to our people in any way. At the end, it's our people to accept the peace deal or not, not up to anybody in the world.

30:35Piers Morgan:And it doesn't depend on a strong country or strong leader or not. No, it's up to Ukrainian people. But before it, I see now the result of our negotiation meetings. As I said, there are some points which are constructive. Americans put a lot, and everybody wants—I mean, it's not everybody. We want—Ukrainians want very much to end this war. But I see now that only on the level of leaders, we can try to end this war. On the level of leaders, we can really try to solve the question, the territorial questions, which are very sensitive and painful and difficult. That's why we speak about security guarantees, because we don't trust Russians.

31:29Personally Putin and personally Russians.

31:33Piers Morgan:It's not just about Putin. It's about system. It's about his people around him. even when another person will be on his place and another people will be on my place, of course. On my place, of course. I don't know what will be with him, but on my place, of course. It means that we have to speak about the institutional trust, but not to each other, trust to the institution of security guarantees. because we will not support personally, we will not trust personally, but also our nations will need, I don't know how many years for the dialogue. I don't know. They have to be... They need to apologise to you.

32:26Piers Morgan:You want to hear an apology. Not to me. Not to me. I mean, what I mean, I don't know how many years, dozens of years, or I don't know, hundreds of years. And at the end, we will need for the dialogue between our countries. But in any way, it's not only about years. It's about the position of Russia, like the position of today's Germany, which apologizing for all these Nazi years. And it's understandable that it's not about modern Germans. It's not about these young people, new generation, but they know that at the end, it's all about their roots. It's all about their country. And it's so difficult to clean all this.

33:17Piers Morgan:In any way, you have to change your strategy from the point that you've been right to the point that you started the war against people, and you are the aggressor. and recognize, oh, sorry, now I found this war, I couldn't find the war, to recognize that they started the war, to recognize that they really had real, real fascism in the 21st century. This is this regime, which is now in Moscow. And that's why I said that we don't know how many years. It will depend on the position of Russia. if you were to sit with vladimir putin to try and finalize a deal and you were face to face with this man that's committed such horror on on your country and your people what would you say to him if it was just you and him face to face i i i don't have personal things to him no emotions no emotions just I have understanding how I really try to finish this war in the I mean this not permanent pause I just try to finish this war I'm not sure that he will hear my arguments and I don't want I don't need it because I'm not aggressor to find arguments why I'm aggressive.

34:56Piers Morgan:I don't need arguments for, I mean, just for the world, why I'm defending my life, like all the Ukrainians. We don't need it. That's why we don't need to lose time for all these historic issues with all respect to history. but I don't want to lose time on all these issues. We need just now, and even, by the way, we need just now to finish this war, and that's why even it's not interesting for me why he began this war. He has his, I mean, his reasons, and it's his personal. I don't want to speak about it because I don't have time. I have my point of view why he began or why this system began, and I can definitely speak about it and et cetera, but I don't need to waste time on historic issues, reasons why he began, all this, I think, bullshit, what he's raising with Americans and et cetera, that it's not simple things about Peter I and et cetera.

36:11Piers Morgan:I don't need it. Because for to end this war and to go to a diplomatic way, I don't need all this historical shit, really. Because it's just to postpone. Because I read not less historical books than Putin, I'm sure, and learned a lot because we have to know everything about this country. And I know about his country more than he knows about Ukraine simply because I was in Russia in so many cities and knew a lot of people and so many times, and he's never been so many times in Ukraine, and he was only in the big cities. I was from small cities, from the northern part to the southern part, everywhere.

37:04Piers Morgan:I know their mentality. That's why I don't want to lose the time on all these things. It's about them. They decided to have such system. Russians decided to change themselves. Russians decided that they need new Tsar. But it's up to them. But there is a security thing. There is a big war against us. There is our lives. The only thing what I want to speak with him, that I think that we need to manage most successful way, successful, I mean this quick way, without not too much losses again and again to end this war. And that is why, what about I want to speak only about such things.

38:05Piers Morgan:President Putin and his forces, they have made multiple attempts to kill you. If you had an opportunity to kill Putin, would you authorise your forces to take that opportunity?

38:23Piers Morgan:You know, in their system, I'm not sure that another person will not be Putin. The same as Putin. It's not about such things. I don't know how many times they tried to kill me. I mean, the security service told me about some of these times. Yeah, I understand that in my country, maybe in this difficult period of time, it was like a push Ukraine to chaos. But when you see our people under missiles and under attacks on our energy system, like one of the elements which are very important during this war, not the only one. Of course, the priority is army. Army is the strongest point which is very important.

39:34Piers Morgan:But there are some other things. Business, which pays, defending production, energy system, water supplies, a lot of different things. Banking system, anti-saber system, etc. So a lot of things which give Ukraine a possibility to defend. So in our system, the president is one of these elements. I'm not comparing, and I'm not sure, of course, that I am the very important person. It's more about the institution. The president in Ukraine is one of these institutions which strengthen the country. And they understand that to delay me, first of all, you always can find somebody in your country who will be maybe more diplomatic.

40:39Yes.

40:40Piers Morgan:And another thing that the first period of time, country can be in chaos. But again, I think that it's not smart to do. because as I said, as the attacks on our energy, it didn't break our country. It was oppositely. The hate-ness to Russians increased after that. That's why I think it's the same how to kill people. Even the president, it will not break. It will not break. I think that the reaction can be another, which Russians, it's a pity, but they don't estimate really the reaction of Ukrainians. Because we are, I always said, we are emotionally different people. Emotionally different people.

41:36Piers Morgan:That's why after emotions, after attitude to humanity, always go the values. And that's why we can understand each other, we can speak with each other, we can fight as you see, but for different values.

42:14Volodymyr Zelensky:So put that fork down. Try the new wraps today in app or at order.sweetgreen.com. Available at participating locations only.

42:27Piers Morgan:When you had the now infamous shouting match with President Trump and Vice President Vance in the Oval Office, the world watched on in horror, I think. But I made the point at the time, and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, that I suspect that you guys have had quite a few quite fiery conversations behind the scenes during this war. The only difference is that this time it was in public and the world was watching. Is that true? You know, have you behind the scenes had a lot of fiery, passionate arguments like that?

43:09Piers Morgan:First of all, I mean, we had different, absolutely different conversations with Americans. and I had a lot of different conversations with Biden administration and I had with Europeans a lot of conversations and of course I had during this year conversations with President Trump and his team. Different. Some of them been very constructive. Some of them been emotional like one of them which you raised and there are some which have been not in media but also been emotional. Yes, it's true. Emotional. But I think that, I don't know, I don't know, we are who we are. So I can't change myself and it will be not fair to my people, just of all.

44:12Piers Morgan:You know, I'm not... People said, President Zelensky, People said that you were humiliated in the Oval Office that day. Did you feel that?

44:32Piers Morgan:Not me. I had a feeling that Ukraine was in the position and our people, you know, after all these days and years, and after all this pain, I thought that it was not, how to say, it's probably what's a fair, no. Yeah, it was not just to us. It was not simply just to us. Even on the words of our president, I'm not about the words. I'm speaking about the situation. Yeah, I came to the partners and I wanted very much to hear more big support than previous administration. Yes, I wanted because I knew that President Trump, that he's a strong person. And that's why I wanted to have strong support. but even not it's not my decision it's a decision of a sovereign country but I didn't want to hear you know with all respect I didn't want to hear some support of Russians you know and that's why my reaction was my reaction and

46:03Piers Morgan:that's it what can I say When it comes to President Trump, I've had private conversations with him multiple times in the last year since he became president again. And he cares genuinely deeply about the appalling loss of life in this war. And he is, it seems to me, desperate to try and bring peace and to end this war. But many people feel he's tougher on you and Ukraine than he is on Russia and Putin. Do you think that? And if that is the case, why do you think he's tougher on you than he is on Russia and Putin?

46:49I don't know.

46:51Piers Morgan:Maybe because America thinks that they helped us from the very beginning of this war and even before the war when President Trump remains the javelins. I also have been very thankful to him. It was not during my presidency. It was before. But in any way, we speak about our country. It doesn't matter who is the president at this time. But he helped, and I think that he thought that he helped Ukraine, and Ukraine has to be more thankful. And he underlined it, and I think you heard about it. And, you know, maybe he's right. Maybe we have different positions on it. I think that, you know, we are defending Ukraine and defending the world and defending their values, which always Americans spoke about and try to, you know, push these values to the world.

47:55Piers Morgan:And I thought that I think that we are defending by paying our lives. That's why I thought that it's not just help. No, it's not just, I mean, the nations of America is about help of allies, that we help each other. We are helping defending Europe and America helping Europe to be alive. and that's why they support us. But, you see, maybe we had different views on it. Do you trust President Trump? I trust him in the first thing, the first very important thing that you said, that he really wants to end this war. Yes, he really wants to end this war. And the second point, when he speaks about the children, when he speaks about losses in Ukraine, I trust that it's very painful for him.

48:59Piers Morgan:And he speaks about it, yes. I don't know really all his internal questions, steps. with all respect, I'm sorry I'm focusing on the war, not on these things. Maybe some of them, internal American things, even more important for him, I'm sure, that this war. But in any case, and I trust that he really can end this war. But I don't know to speak about his relationship with Putin. I want to be very honest. It's not about a question of trust or not. He has such relations which I can't really estimate or understand. Something which is not

49:52Piers Morgan:famous. Something which is not famous for me. I don't know about it. But they have some relations I'm sure. And that's why for me sometimes it's very, very painful that his attitude to Putin is sometimes...

50:21Piers Morgan:Deserves. Yes, I think sometimes his attitude to Putin is more good than Putin deserves. Yeah. And that's it. I'm sharing with you what I think. But really, he speaks, Trump always speaks with me about many, many losses in Ukraine. Yeah. Yeah, and that's it. President Trump has said that he would like to see presidential elections in Ukraine this summer. Obviously, because of the war, it's not been possible to have a free and fair democratic election because you have hundreds of thousands of men fighting on the front line. You've had millions of people leave the country. Obviously, 20 % of the country is under Russian occupation at the moment.

51:17Piers Morgan:You have responded that if there was a two-month pause in fighting a ceasefire, it might be possible to have elections. Do you think it would work to have a free and fair election even after a two-month ceasefire?

51:39Piers Morgan:I think that our partners have to answer on one question what they want. They want really elections or they want just to change me. So I think that Russians want just to change me. And then they used something, what you said before, physical changing or other steps. And there is a very, how to say, civilized way. Yes, civilized way is elections. Yes, but you can't influence on people of other nations. They have to choose with whom they live. But I said that I will never stop any propositions from the Americans if they can bring us peace. So if we can have two months of ceasefire for elections, I will do my best to speak with parliament and to push parliament to the way which which they don't support and even people don't support to make elections during the war.

52:59Piers Morgan:Because even if you have ceasefire for two months, it's not ending the war. But even in such case, if you have ceasefire only for two months, yes, it can bring at the end of these two months, it can bring signing of everything or referendum or something like this and people will accept peace. I will do my best. I will speak with parliament. They will change the law. I hope so. I hope so. By the way, they are also independent people. We have not to forget. When Russians, for example, speak with Americans, I know they speak, they can do elections during one week or two weeks. It doesn't matter. No, they forget always that we are not Russia.

53:45Piers Morgan:That in Parliament, yes, it's our parties, different parties, but even during the war, we have different positions on many laws, different positions on a lot of things. And that's why you can't just pressure or just break the parliament. You can't. You have to speak with them and have real reasons why to have elections now. because it's I mean, now it's against today's law. We can have elections only during peacetime. That's it. But I said do strong first step. Push Russia for two months of ceasefire for elections. If they want elections, we can think about it. They have to do their homework. I mean, Americans.

54:40Piers Morgan:But homework doesn't mean that we are pushing them to this. They raised this topic. That's why I said, OK, guys, if you can stop Putin for some months of the elections, let's do it.

54:55Piers Morgan:It's an interesting situation with the American public in relation to you personally, because there are a lot of people on the MAGA conservative right who, as you know, don't like you, don't like the American support for you or Ukraine. They think that Ukraine's corrupt, and we'll come to some recent stories about that. But that's how they view you. But at the same time, a YouGov poll only last week, I think it was, or two weeks ago, in the United States came out. It asked people, US adults, to give favourability ratings to world leaders, and you were number one by a distance. You were the leader around the world that most adult Americans view favourably.

55:46Piers Morgan:Putin was second to bottom, just above Kim Jong-un from North Korea. Donald Trump himself was 16th, which is not surprising because the country obviously is pretty split 50-50. But the fact that you won a favourability rating amongst American adults so comfortably and Putin came right at the bottom. What does that tell you about how most Americans really feel about you and Ukraine?

56:18Piers Morgan:First of all, I want to react that I'm trying to be honest as much as possible with everything and with everybody. Of course, I have mistakes, like every person which tries to do something in this life. And when any newspapers and media in Ukraine or somewhere speaks about some cases of corruption, and this is the answer. This is the answer, that we fight against it. And that we have such cases, yes, but we build a big anti-corruption infrastructure. And this is the first. The second point, that we are a new country with historical roots. We had our re-independence 35 years ago. And of course, we've been always under somebody, some pressure on our roots, on our identity, on our language, a lot of things, but at the end, on our freedom.

57:34Piers Morgan:This is the most important thing. That's why it was always difficult to fight for independence. And that's why, of course, institutions are young. That's why a lot of, I mean, different people, and there are some cases, and of course, there are criminal cases, a lot of different things. The difference between our country and other countries, that we are not silent. But I think this is good that we can speak about it and we can really support to fight with any kind of such cases as you mentioned. The second point, that we really fight us for freedom and for independence. And I'm focusing on it and I think that Americans feel it.

58:18Piers Morgan:They feel that we are honest in this fight. then they feel that the big guy, that like Russian enemy in this case, they want to eat us. Definitely. 100 % between us. They just want to destroy us totally. And I think that Americans feel it. My personal steps each day being about it, to speak with the world, to tell the world all these crimes what Russia came with, to us. And I think that Americans also feel it and hear it. Yes. And I know that the questions of a lot of difficulties, crimes or anti-corruption steps or corruption steps will be raised, yes, a lot of time, because they don't know what more to raise, what is wrong with Ukraine, how to divide this society in Ukraine, how to pressure and how to, and then how to change me and how to break our soldiers.

59:27Piers Morgan:So it's understandable what's going on, what Russia is doing. And I think that Americans, Americans, mostly, they feel it. They feel where it's truth and where it's not, where it's disinformation, where it's real problems in Ukraine. And I think the answer of such support is in this, that Americans truly understand and truly on our side. President Zanowski, I want to end just with two questions. One is about the Olympics, one is about you and your family. On the Olympics, there was an extraordinary moment last week in the Winter Olympics, where the Ukrainian skeleton racer, Vladislav Hryoskovich, was thrown out of the Olympics for wearing a helmet that had images of athletes and children killed during the war.

1:00:29Piers Morgan:You've now presented him with the order of freedom. But I posted, as you know, because you posted back at me on X, that I was enraged by this. It wasn't a political statement. It was somebody using a helmet in the Olympics simply to honour people who'd been killed. Did you feel that it was outrageous that he was thrown out of the Olympics? Yes, yes, of course. They withdrew this guy, this boy. No, this man. After his steps, he's not a boy, he's a man. and really I had the privilege to meet with him and his father, he's a trainer and he came to Munich conference but I reacted after they withdrew Vladislav and you know

1:01:28Piers Morgan:it's why the reaction of all the people have to be very very strong for this, which is not just to him and to Ukraine. I can tell. Because, you know, I don't know, in Ukrainian language, it's translating like two standards policy. I don't know in English if it's understandable. A double standard. Yeah, double standard policy. Why? I will tell you. I like sport. I don't have time. But I am a fan of different kinds of sport. I always respect all the sportsmen. I understand that it's a big, difficult work to be a great sportsman. And that's why I deeply understand the details of some personalities who've been taking part during the Olympics, who participated in teams.

1:02:27Piers Morgan:For example, if you will look at Jarko Figurne Katalje, skating, figure skating. If you will look for figure skating, for example, Germany, United States, Kazakhstan, even I think Poland maybe I'm mistaken, but in any way. So you can see different countries, Hungarian, Hungarians also. In Hungarian, by the way, team in the pair of skating figure, the pair is both Russians. Both Russians. So what I wanted to say, if you look, for example, it's just one kind of sport during these Olympic Games. If you look at figure skating, you will see that 40%, maybe half, 30 % of the teams of all the countries have Russians there.

1:03:30Piers Morgan:Not Russians which have been born somewhere. So I'm not about, you know, their identity. I'm not about roots. I'm about Russians which trained in Moscow, in St. Petersburg, which trained in Russia, which moved during the full-scale war to other countries, which changed their citizenship. No, it's not my attitude to them. That was their decision. It's my attitude to management of Olympic Games. And this is, I mean, it depends on them. That was their choice. They have to live with it and they will live with it. But at the same time, what I said, it's two standards. with Zakhar Bali. Well, also, President Zelensky, if I could tell you something else about this.

1:04:26Piers Morgan:Yes. I was going to mention something else to you. Sorry, finish your point, please. No, no, I wanted to say it. So they withdrew one guy with a helmet, with the images of the sportsman, not just the soldiers, by the way, of the sportsmen who became soldiers or been killed by the Russians during this war, during Russian aggressive steps. And he put them. It means that they support him. People have not to forget. And these forces, for me, it's very symbolic that these boys and girls, that they represented Ukraine, even in such way he represented Ukraine in the Olympic Games it's great it's a great idea but it's all about respect to these people not something else but the fact that they withdraw this guy it means they made this case political they moved this case about sport to political Well, also on the same theme, I don't know if you're aware of this, but this morning the Winter Paralympics have announced that Russian and Belarusian competitors will be allowed to perform under the flag of their countries, which is obviously not the case in other sporting competitions since the war began.

1:06:05Piers Morgan:What is your reaction to that decision? No, it's... I mean, this... I don't want to say that it's about money, because I don't know. But it's dirty decisions. Absolutely. Not respectable. And not European. I mean, this is not, I mean, this is Europe from the point of values. I think this is awful decision. Absolutely. And not just decision. So we will react. I didn't know about it. Thank you that you said to me, but I didn't know about it. But it's, you know, it's like the Russian way of life, how they began this aggression. You know, we say,

1:07:08Piers Morgan:gripping, gripping, gripping, gripping occupation. You know, a little bit Crimea. Nobody answered. Nobody gave a kick. Okay. Donbass. Nobody is answering. Nobody is putting sanctions. Okay. Full-scale invasion. Step by step. the Russian way of life. The same with Olympic Games.

1:07:38Piers Morgan:Finally, President Zelensky, and thank you so much for giving me so much time. When I interviewed you that first time, four months into the war, your wife, the First Lady, joined us. And I wanted to play you a clip from what she said. When we have this interview, we experience joy because we have the chance to see each other throughout past days, past months, because during this period, Volodymyr has been living at his workplace, and I'm with children, but we are in another place. I was really struck by the way she said that and the fact that, obviously, you had so little time together. Obviously, in the next three years, I'd imagine the war has put an unbearable strain on your life, your family life, with both your wife, your kids and so on.

1:08:31On a human level, how has it been for you as a family?

1:08:40Piers Morgan:Not enough time. The daughter, she's not a child. She's a young lady. And I lost this time. lost this period from the childhood to this moment, to today's moment I lost it by I will not even say because of the war I lost it by myself of course it's because of this war period but in any way this is my question and the boy he's a real boy and he has many questions to me and I didn't have enough time for answers.

1:09:31And what can I say? Thanks to my wife that they are not bad educated

1:09:38Piers Morgan:and I think this is very important when you are losing time and you know that this period of all these challenges to have good education, not bad education, yes, because it's not normal education in any way, because online, you know, everything is online. It's not the same as offline, and that's why the level is what we have. But it's up to all the Ukrainians. We are at the same positions. But this is important. and the only one emotion that they still miss and we still miss each other. And I think that if we miss each other, the only one constant thing what we have, we love each other. And this is great, I think so.

1:10:34Piers Morgan:That's wonderful to hear. I think I said to you when I saw you in Kiev that you reminded me of Winston Churchill, that sometimes leaders are kind of born for a role to lead a country when they come under attack, as Churchill was, obviously, in World War II, as I think you were in Ukraine. And for all those who criticize you, President Zelensky, I have remained absolutely steadfast in my enormous admiration for you. I think you've shown astounding leadership and courage, personal courage. and I just want you to know that a lot of people feel that way about you and we wish you all the very best in trying to secure peace for your country and that hopefully it comes sooner rather than later for the sake of everyone involved in this awful war.

1:11:27Piers Morgan:And just on the point of education I would like to point out to my viewers that I've interviewed you numerous times now but always in Ukrainian with a translator. I asked you today if you would do the interview in English. You've spoken for nearly 80 minutes in English. Your English has improved enormously from when I first met you. So congratulations on that and thank you for doing it in English. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. And I'm so sorry to you and to all the viewers. Sorry for my English. Maybe I had a lot of mistakes. I'm so sorry, but I tried my best. You know, your English is great, actually.

1:12:12Piers Morgan:And it's, I think, more powerful to the wider global audience when you speak in English like this. And I think your English was excellent, and I really appreciate it. Best of luck to you, President Zelensky, and thank you so much for giving me so much time. Thank you so much. Thank you, Pierce. Thank you for your support. All the best. Bye-bye.

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1:13:02Piers Morgan:President Zelensky always make headlines and they always spark debate. He is, after all, a world leader, and he's fighting the deadliest European conflict since the Second World War. I've personally interviewed him numerous times now since the war began, but this time it felt different. This is a man no longer holding back. You may be frustrated by the stalemate in Ukraine, by the same talking points, by the same arguments, by neither side giving an inch. Well, so is he. Whatever your personal view of the conflict, Zelensky has personally had four years of arguing his country's case with diplomacy, four years of questions about Russia's red lines, and four years of talking points about why Americans don't support the war, or at least some of them.

1:13:42Piers Morgan:Clearly, he's had enough. He told me Ukrainians want the war to end, but not without their dignity. He said he doesn't trust Russians, and he'll never trust Putin. He said he's sick of wasting time on historical bullshit about Russia's right to invade. He said that Oval Office bust-up was unfair on his country. He said he's pained by Trump's relationship with Putin, the man who invaded his country, and he slammed the Olympics and Paralympics for what he called an awful double standard. This was a frank, feisty and fed-up Zelensky who wants his country's suffering to end. But for those who've held clear and firm views on this war ever since it began, did it change their minds at all?

1:14:21Piers Morgan:Well, here to give their reaction to the interview, Scott Horton, author of Provote, General Mark Kimmett, former US Assistant Secretary of State, Jack Potomik, who's the senior editor at Human Events, and Anna Denilchuk, Ukrainian commentator. Well, welcome to all of you. General Kimmer, welcome back to Uncensored. I've interviewed Zelensky a few times now, and I really felt now he's reaching a point where he's prepared to speak very frankly, probably the way he does in private, but now prepared to do it in public. And it just struck me that at the centre of all this, in the end, is this debate between all the sides, and he made a point of saying it's a three-way debate, the United States, Russia, and Ukraine, over territory, that ultimately, any peace deal is going to come down to a settlement over territory.

1:15:12Piers Morgan:And he is not prepared to cede, on behalf of the Ukrainian people, an inch of land in terms of sovereignty. The compromise, as he was putting it to me, is that it may be they freeze this war on current territorial lines, but without any ceding of territory, and they work out security guarantees, which may be for 10, 20 years, whatever it may be, in a way that ensures Putin can't then attack again. What do you make of what he was saying about that?

1:15:47Volodymyr Zelensky:Well, I think he's starting to acknowledge that his war aims are finally getting worn down. And for that matter, so are President Putin's. One of the reasons they can't come to an agreement is because they still believe in their original war aims. President Putin wants him out. He wants to take Ukraine, and he doesn't want Ukraine to be part of NATO. He doesn't want those security guarantees. President Zelensky wants security guarantees to include being part of NATO, wants to restore his entire landmass to include Crimea, and wants Russians pay reparations? What has changed in four years of war?

1:16:25Volodymyr Zelensky:So I think at the end of the day, if President Trump wears him down and says, we'll offer you those long-term security guarantees for land, I think he's got a choice to make and his people have a choice to make, which is either continue this slaughter for years and years, or finally come into some sort of Cold War, some sort of frozen conflict inside the country.

1:16:54Piers Morgan:I want to play you, General Kim, in just a clip of what he said about the current state of the battlefield in the context that there's been a report out today that Ukraine has made more gains in the last three, four days than it's made for a very long time in this war. Let's hear what Zelensky had to say. If you speak, if you're asking what's going on on the battlefield, as I said, they didn't get successful stories for them. They try, I mean, Russians, they try to sell their audience the successful steps, but they can't really. Even their audience, even their very, you know, that they have this very nationalistic, very radical part of Russia, even they don't trust their government, Putin, because they see that there are no successful steps on the battlefield.

1:17:55Piers Morgan:The report I was alluding to said that Ukraine has recaptured territory at its fastest pace in three years, 78 square miles between last Wednesday and Sunday, which is equal to Russia's advances for the entire month of December. Should we read anything significant into that? And what do you make of his kind of overview that Russia has failed in its military objectives? Which, I remember at the start of the war, the belief was Russia was trying to get this over in a few days, depose Zelensky, take control and so on. Clearly that has not been achieved and they've lost over a million people in terms of death and wounded in this war so far, which is a catastrophic loss for any army.

1:18:41Piers Morgan:What do you think of the two points?

1:18:44Volodymyr Zelensky:Well, number one, Russia has not achieved its military aims in any sense of the word. Number two, with 78 square miles in a country of that size is meaningless. Unfortunately, one of the most pressing articles I ever wrote was in July of 22 in the Wall Street Journal when I said, this is going to turn into a bloody stalemate. I wish I was wrong. But this looks like, and you know this well, Piers, the history of the First World War after about a year and a half, looks like Flanders Field.

1:19:18Piers Morgan:Yeah, you know, the last person that used the comparison to Flanders to me privately was Donald Trump, President of the United States, who said this is like Flanders. It is open fields. And there are thousands of young men being mown down week after week, month after month, year after year. Let me bring Scott Horton in. Scott, you know, I obviously know your perspective on this war. I thought it was interesting that President Zelensky several times just said to me he's not interested in re-litigating Russia's excuses for doing the invasion, or as he put it, all the historical bullshit, and I'm sure that people will take issue with that.

1:19:58Piers Morgan:But I think what he was really getting at is that we are where we are, and it's kind of meaningless to any resolution now. Would you agree with that? Notwithstanding, I know you wouldn't view what happened before as historical bullshit, but do you agree that we are where we are? And if we need to get to peace, actually, it is kind of irrelevant.

1:20:20Volodymyr Zelensky:Well, no, because if you have to take into account what started the war in order to figure out how to solve it. So for example, if Ukraine is going to insist on more guarantees from all the European countries and even the United States, and including hosting European troops on their territory, well then, obviously, that is completely contrary to incentivizing the Russians to compromise and come to peace on their side, since that was one of the major instigators of the war, was the integration of Ukraine into the Western alliance, instead of working on a permanent neutrality, which, as I've said on the show before, even the NATO expanders said all along, well, we're going to have to make a special case for Ukraine and guarantee their neutrality.

1:21:03Volodymyr Zelensky:And then when the policymakers didn't abide by that, starting with George W. Bush, they really put Ukraine on the path to war. And that's the point of my book is, you know, the book is called Provoked, How Washington Started This War, not so much Kiev. It's the United States that put them in this position. There's that famous Henry Kissinger quote that says to be America's enemy is dangerous, but to be America's friend is fatal. And what he was talking about was the kind of things that he would do, which is support people in a fight that they can't win and then eventually turn around and leave them high and dry like the Bay of Pigs or like the Shiite uprising and Kurdish uprising in 1991 or the Hmong tribesmen in Vietnam or you name it.

1:21:46Volodymyr Zelensky:We'll make big promises and then stab you in the back. And so the Ukrainians, you know, have a right to be resentful. Joe Biden promised them total victory. We will give you whatever it takes to completely defeat the Russians. And based on those promises, they gave up on the peace talks in the early part of the war in 2022. And then the die was really cast, Pierce, in September of 22, because that is when Ukraine had their best day, their best weekend, when they got a real victory in Kharkiv and down in Khursan. But then Putin just got angry, called up 300 ,000 more troops, and then officially annexed Zaprosha and Khursan and doubled the size of his territorial claims in the war, which he's still far from achieving.

1:22:35Volodymyr Zelensky:And then so you mentioned that 78 miles. The only meaningful thing about that really is it reinforces the Ukrainian government's position that they don't want to quit when they haven't lost yet. But of course, the Russians don't want to quit when they are winning, but slowly, and they are far from finished taking even the rest of Donetsk, much less the rest of Zyprosia and Kursan. So at the rate we're going, this thing could go on for years. And it really is all Washington and especially Joe Biden's fault for getting the Ukrainians into this position and then refusing to negotiate a peaceful settlement.

1:23:13Piers Morgan:Anna Donald Trump, I want to play you a clip. This is where he talks about Vladimir Putin and the prospect potentially of a face-to-face, leader-to-leader meeting, which obviously hasn't happened since the war began. If you were to sit with Vladimir Putin to try and finalize a deal, and you were face-to-face with this man that's committed such horror on your country and your people, what would you say to him if it was just you and him face-to-face?

1:23:45Piers Morgan:I don't have personal things to him. I have my point of view why he began or why this system began, and I can definitely speak about it and et cetera, But I don't need to waste time on historic issues, reasons why he began, all this, I think, bullshit, what he's raising with Americans and et cetera, that it's not simple things about Peter I and et cetera. I don't need it. Because for to end this war and to go to a diplomatic way, I don't need all this historical shit, really. He went on to say that he doesn't just distrust all Russians, but he specifically wouldn't trust Putin at all. I just want to flip that question slightly and ask you as a Ukrainian, do most Ukrainians still trust President Zelensky to do the right thing by them in this war?

1:24:50Volodymyr Zelensky:Yes, and you know, I think this is one of the big things that many people who push Ukraine to have elections right now during one week organize all the process, change Zelensky, and it will be easier to make Ukrainians agree on giving up our territories or the way we see our future. But it's not the first time that Ukrainian civil society surprises the world. And we do have a very open, very sincere and active, not always easy dialogue inside the Ukrainian society. And you might have noticed that with protests, with disagreements, we always react in a constructive way. And this is actually what ruins all of Putin's plan.

1:25:32Volodymyr Zelensky:He misreads Ukraine from the very beginning in 2022 and now. They think that the problem is Zelensky, because in Russia they have just one leader for 25 years, and nobody's talking about the need for some elections. So the fact that we have this dialogue, that we influence the decisions of our government, that we have a parliament that is working, that we do not rewrite our constitutions based on the Tsar's decisions as they do in Russia, adding Ukrainian territories or changing the duration of Putin's regime. So, of course, we can criticize our leaders. We can demonstrate that we don't like something.

1:26:17Volodymyr Zelensky:But in general, what Putin did, he united Ukraine extremely well. And even during this cold genocide that he tried during the worst winter, maybe in 10 years, achieve the country. Once again, we back up each other. Regions send energy to most affected, and nobody during this cold, dark days thinks that, oh my God, we want to join Russia, just the country. And concerning meeting with Putin, I think our president is young and strong, and Putin could not survive that meeting. But speaking seriously, I think that not enough world leaders discuss whether Putin is actually adequate and fit for the job now after a quarter of a century of his reign.

1:27:02Volodymyr Zelensky:And I'm sure that he knows very little about the things that are happening on the front lines in the Russian economy. And that decision, for example, to switch off messengers only proves that this pressure, these problems in Russia keep accumulating. Look at me. I'm in Ukraine. I have problems with electricity, but I have access to messengers. I can speak to you. Russians cannot do it. And not because they are hiding their victories or success, just the country.

1:27:31Piers Morgan:Jack Posobiec, it was an interesting moment when I told him about this YouGov poll that came out several weeks ago, because obviously there are a lot of people on the conservative MAGA right that have expressed concern about America continuing to fund Ukraine and its war against Russia. It's split the conservative right in many ways, in a surprising because if you went back 30, 40 years, it would be unthinkable that the American conservative right would not be united in wanting to help a European country against a Russian dictator. But times have changed. And, you know, I was struck by this poll because notwithstanding all the animosity that's come Zelensky's way from sections of the conservative right in America, this YouGov poll showed that he is by far the highest amongst American adults when it comes to favourability of any world leader.

1:28:23Piers Morgan:And it's Putin, who's right down the bottom with Kim Jong-un. So what was your reaction to that poll? And what do you feel it says really about what most Americans are thinking?

1:28:38Volodymyr Zelensky:Well, Pierce, yeah, the first time I've seen the poll, and, you know, it really goes to show me that Americans do, by and large, regardless of which side of the aisle you're on, they stand for freedom, they stand for the right to vote, the right for democracy. These are things that, by and large, Americans do share. Now, of course, across the left and right, you're going to find many big differences on how we define that democracy. The left likes to use this as a watchword of, you know, our democracy is under assault when President Trump is simply, you know, using the actual laws on the books for deportations or something like this.

1:29:09Volodymyr Zelensky:But what I wouldn't read into that poll too much is an appetite for continued war. And that is where you see the split that you're talking about among the MAGA right. So you see that split. It's typically an age split. Those who are older tend to support war, whether it be Ukraine, whether it be Iran, where, of course, we're hearing the war drums beating yet again as we speak and seeing a massive military buildup in the Middle East. And when you look at the younger voters, so I work with TPSA. And, of course, when we see folks really in college, in high school, even I would say up to the 40-year-old level, that's where you just see people who are remembering the history of Iraq, the history of Afghanistan, the losses there, the disastrous withdrawal from Kabul saying, what was it for?

1:29:57Volodymyr Zelensky:What do we go for? And people who are veterans like myself, who served in the war on terror, a lot of people saying, do we really need to do another one of these things? And politically, that's where the bottom falls out.

1:30:10Piers Morgan:I mean, just on that point, though, it's interesting, because when this debate started, of course, America was pursuing a very much an America first under President Trump in his second term. But now he's flexing American military muscles in a number of from Venezuela to Iran and so on. Showing that he does have an appetite, actually, for engaging in foreign affairs in a way that perhaps some people who are MAGA or America First in their thinking find a little bit perturbing. But it makes interfering in the Ukraine war more consistent with what he's doing in other parts of the world because, actually, what Trump would argue, and he has argued, is that, you know, you can't let Russia just ride roughshod over a sovereign democratic European country.

1:31:02Piers Morgan:And I, you know, my whole argument from the start has been if you let him take Ukraine or the Donbass, for example, as he took Crimea, as he, you know, marched into Georgia and all these things, the lesson surely we've learned from Putin is he won't stop there. Why would he? He would just perceive weakness and carry on trying to take stuff.

1:31:24Volodymyr Zelensky:Well, I think you're going to see this split continue regardless of what really happens, because it's not so much that Americans are going to support Russia in their gains, which, of course, we're always accused of whenever anyone brings up this America first line. It's that Americans are sick of putting the interests of other people around the world ahead of their own. When you've got people freezing to death on the streets of New York City under Mamdani, when you've got people who are trying to just put food on the table where we do still face issues with inflation in the United States, and when you look at the affordability crisis, which unfortunately has not – there's been some help on the gasoline and some of the other issues on price-wise.

1:32:04Volodymyr Zelensky:Those are the issues. Obviously, we're in election year this year. Those are the issues that are going to be driving this election, not foreign policy. And I predict that when you go outside of the America First wing and just really look writ large, any of these actions, so you look at continued war in Ukraine or a new war in Iran, that is going to be very, very unpopular with the American people writ large.

1:32:26Piers Morgan:General Kimmett I want to play you a clip this is where we talked about the now infamous meeting in the Oval Office that got very shouty and acrimonious between President Zelensky, President Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance

1:32:39Volodymyr Zelensky:Spring is here and there's a whole new way to chai at Starbucks that's made perfect for you.

1:32:45Piers Morgan:Choose your sweetness, dial it up or keep things light. Add a touch of pistachio, a hint of strawberry or vanilla or make it a Spring Classic with Lavender, because this season, there's endless ways to chai at Starbucks.

1:33:02Piers Morgan:People said that you were humiliated in the Oval Office that day. Did you feel that?

1:33:17not me

1:33:20Piers Morgan:I had feeling that Ukraine was in the position and our people after all these days and years after all this pain I thought that it was not how to say, it's probably what's a fair, no it was not just to us it was not simply not just to us even on the words of President, I'm not about the words, I'm speaking about the situation What did you feel, General Kim, at watching that? Did you feel it was disrespectful to Ukraine? Did you feel it was a bit humiliating for Zelensky? Or is this the kind of, as I suggested to him, the kind of confrontation that goes on a lot behind the scenes when you're trying to negotiate peace in a war?

1:34:20Piers Morgan:And actually, the difference this time was it happened in the Oval Office in the full glare of the world's media.

1:34:26Volodymyr Zelensky:Yeah, I think that was early on in President Trump's second term. And I think he was still sort of getting his feet on the ground. If you take a look at Steve Witkoff, Jared Kushner, and the other negotiators that we have around the world, they're not acting that way. And President Trump is not acting that way. So that was pretty much mature, a maturation of the president. I think he'd take it back and at least do it behind closed doors the next time. Listen, I'd like to go back to a comment that was made. I think people don't understand to a great extent what's happening in America. What is called the right right-wing MAGA is really a conventional isolationist group, which you find in both the left and the right.

1:35:10Volodymyr Zelensky:President Trump has turned out to be far more internationalist than those on the right that believed we were going to get an isolationist president, or at least a president that was going to focus on more immediate challenges and larger challenges like that of China would put its focus. But I think it's also important to understand that in terms of quoting Iran and quoting Venezuela, Ukraine is unique. Ukraine is simply unique because Americans don't feel it. There are no American troops at risk. There are no American troops that are getting killed. This is, in many ways, for somebody who spent 25 years of his life on the East German border, this is ideal.

1:35:58Volodymyr Zelensky:We're finally killing Russians, and we're not getting Americans killed. But nonetheless, I think the important thing to understand is that the Ukrainians are taking the casualties. They are willing to fight. And whether you're an isolationist or a globalist or an internationalist, we should be backing Ukraine until this is over. It doesn't matter how we got here, it matters where we are and where we're going for here. If the Iranians - Let me jump in here, Pierce. Yeah, let me just finish. Yeah, sure. Sorry, I thought you - Let me just finish. If the Ukrainians want to fight to defend their country, why shouldn't America support it?

1:36:42Volodymyr Zelensky:We'd support any other democratic country in the world. okay scott well yeah a few things here first of all anyone in american political culture could tell you there are no group of people anywhere who call themselves the isolationists that's just a smear term for anyone who's anti-war no one talks about isolationist brazil or isolationist spain just because they're not picking fights all the time the way the united states understand i i That's a neutral term. Isolation is - It's not a neutral term. No, it's not a neutral term. It is a neutral term. We are$37 trillion in debt. Empires fall apart because they run out of money.

1:37:30Volodymyr Zelensky:The isolationists say, we need to regroup. We need to rearm. We need to fix our deficit. China is the threat. And so let's hunker down, as we used to say in the military. Let's regroup and re-cock and get ready for what's important and not fight these lesser essential wars like Iraq and Afghanistan that are not a threat to our nation. So there is a logic to the isolationist argument. I don't consider that a smear. I consider that a logical branch of our political theory that says we've got ahead of ourselves. We need to focus on Memdani's New York City. We need to rebuild our infrastructure. We need to start saving America before we save the rest of the world.

1:38:19All right.

1:38:20Volodymyr Zelensky:Well, I appreciate that. But that term is always used as a smear, except this time, I guess. But the point being to imply that people who are isolationists just are cowards or afraid of engaging with the rest of the world, don't want to trade with anyone, don't want to know about anything in the rest of the world, and don't want to travel, don't want to engage, that kind of thing. like no matter what the emergency was, that kind of deal, that it's just ideological over reality. And that's not true. As Jack was explaining, Americans have very good reasons. There is a branch of the isolationists that we can call the ostriches.

1:38:57Volodymyr Zelensky:But I think in the main, most isolationists are logical and they're not ostriches putting their heads in the sand. All right. Well, we are agreed about that then. And then I have to say, too, I do find it very distasteful. All of this talk, and you're not alone, sir. There are many others, General, who have made these same sorts of comments about how we're killing Russians on the cheap. We're sending them home in body bags. We're sending them home in coffins. We're causing the Russians to bleed, and no American soldiers are dying, but hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians are dying. Their country's being completely destroyed, and they're being essentially used as a weapon in what the Biden government called the policy of strategic defeat.

1:39:41Volodymyr Zelensky:They didn't want to end the war. They wanted to drag it out as long as possible, knowing that Ukraine would lose ultimately, but thinking that that was funny, essentially, because it'll cost the Russians a hell of a lot of rubles and a hell of a lot of dead young men to do it. And that is about as satanic a policy as you could possibly come up with. And it's one where even though American GIs are not directly engaged on the ground, the war risks spreading into a full-scale war with the Russian Federation and the NATO alliance. And I'm not saying that's likely, but it's a lot more likely than it has been since the end of the last Cold War and completely unnecessarily.

1:40:18Volodymyr Zelensky:Well, let me say one last thing.

1:40:22Volodymyr Zelensky:Let me just say one last thing.

1:40:23Piers Morgan:Let General Kim in response to that, then I'll come to you, Anna.

1:40:25Volodymyr Zelensky:It is a collateral benefit. It was not the primary benefit that the body bags are voluntarily being piled up inside of Ukraine by volunteers that want to fight. And candidly, I'd much more. We have people in this panel that have sent their friends home in body bags. And I think that if we're going to fight a war and another country voluntarily wants to do it and does not need the involvement of American soldiers and American body bags, that's a collateral benefit. A lot of those Ukrainian soldiers are kidnapped off the street by press gangs and forced into vans and taken to the front lines to be cannon fodder.

1:41:09Volodymyr Zelensky:We've all seen the videos. And there are more than a quarter million Ukrainian troops have gone AWOL and tried to flee. Some of them drowned in the river on the way trying to escape to Romania. It's in the Wall Street Journal, in the Associated Press. Hundreds of thousands AWOL. They're conscripts. They're slaves. They're not volunteers. Their government has volunteered them, like Woodrow Wilson. Maybe this is a good time to talk to Anna. That's a bit outdated. You know, you keep repeating these messages, and I'm not sure if you even speak Russian to read Russian telegram channels and the impressions of Russian soldiers as they get super exhausted.

1:41:47Volodymyr Zelensky:And we also observe a very serious evolution of the Ukrainian army. What you're talking are the cases that might have been observed even during the Second World War in the bravest armies. But in general, right now, Ukraine has the strongest and the most skilled army of the 21st century. We did not choose the war. Russians invaded our country. Any Russian soldier can save his life but not crossing the border of the independent country. but they kept making these choices because of money. You forget that Ukrainians are super motivated to defend the territories because they know what happens on the temporarily occupied Russian territories.

1:42:25Volodymyr Zelensky:Millions die instead of hundreds or thousands on the front lines. People know that. They have filtration camp. They steal children. Look at Donetsk and Luhansk. This is, by the way, one of the best motivations for people who are pro-Russian or neutral not to join this Ruski Mir because they bring destruction. And when we say occupied territories, we actually have to change the term. They are destroyed. And more and more Russian military experts now discuss whether they actually need these territories because these are ashes, nothing else. They do not get access to factories or schools or people.

1:43:01Volodymyr Zelensky:They erase and destroy everything. So people do want to keep this frontline. And another important thing, that is the war of the 21st century where infantry now matters very little in comparison to the drone warfare. This is exactly the reason why the front line is not moving. And here I have to disagree that this is similar to the First World War. No, because right now they target our infrastructure deep inside the rear. My city is 80 kilometers from the European Union and it was struck a number of times. But at the same time, Ukrainian drones do a lot of job in very different Russian regions that right now do not have more money left because we destroyed oil industry.

1:43:46Volodymyr Zelensky:50 percent of revenue to the Russian federal budget was lost in 2025. And how do they get their soldiers to the army? Offering them money. And now there are dozens of the Russian regions that do not have money to pay soldiers. Putin faces one of his biggest fears now. He needs general conscription. But in case with Ukraine, we protect our homes, kindergartens, hospitals. We witness what they do. Don't you think that we have emotions, that we have brains and that we react based on our experience of Russia and not on some conspiracy theories that you are sharing about NATO or something? Ukraine was denied to join NATO a lot of times.

1:44:28Volodymyr Zelensky:Georgia was denied. And that's exactly the moment when Russia attacks. Plus, where is Putin's reaction on Finland and Sweden? And he actually, as a master strategist, doubled Russia's border with NATO. So let's not try to find simple solutions to very complex problems. And also, please have a look. For years, this war already lasts longer than the Second World War for the Soviet army. And they do understand it. And Ukraine not only survived, but right now our miltech is better. And a lot of American businesses, EU businesses, are openly or secretly coming here to learn from Ukraine. What we have in Russia, their defense tech failed in Venezuela.

1:45:17Volodymyr Zelensky:And thank you, Donald Trump also demonstrated that in Syria and they won't help Iran. And this geopolitical influence for Russia is also important. And trust me, even the fact that some negotiations take place between Ukraine and China is not the sign that we will cooperate, but the sign that China also senses weakness of Russia.

1:45:40Piers Morgan:OK, Jack, let me bring you back in here. Often turn to the prediction markets to see where the money is going in terms of predicting what may happen here. It's been interesting, Polymarket has an$18 million market on whether a ceasefire can be achieved by the end of March this year. They say just a 4 % chance of that. That's down 39 % from around the time of the Alaska summit. It's been heading down ever since. At this rate, it'll be no chance by March, which I think is probably realistic. How do you see this on-pass being broken? Because it seems to me Russia want territory. They definitely want the territory they've taken.

1:46:26Piers Morgan:They would like a bit more of the Donbass, and then they're prepared to do a deal. But the Ukrainians are only prepared to freeze things on current territorial lines, not to include anything that Russia doesn't currently occupy, and not to cede a single inch of land in terms of sovereignty being transferred. Does this get settled? or as General Kim has warned, could we be seeing just years more of this?

1:46:55Volodymyr Zelensky:Oh, well, I certainly hope that, you know, we don't get more. Look, I traveled to Ukraine multiple times since the war started, both just on the ground doing reporting in 2022 early on and then also last year, along with Secretary Besant meeting at the presidential palace for the mineral deals, part of the peace talks, went up to Anchorage as well with President Trump, with President Putin and Lavrov and those talks, the Anchorage Accords, which, of course, we all wished had gone better. It seemed like everything was cordial in the room, and then nothing really shook out of it. And I'll be at the Board of Peace meeting, which is happening here tomorrow in Washington, D.C.

1:47:33Volodymyr Zelensky:as well. But at the same time, I think the way that the key thing that I believe you mentioned it in the earlier interview with President Zelensky is that there is a third party to all of this. It's Ukraine, it's Russia, but it's also the United States. And whereas Russia is drawing on its limited group of allies, Ukraine is very much reliant on NATO and the United States to continue to prosecute this war. And so while the general is correct that they are using Ukrainian bodies to commit this war, when it comes to the money, when it comes to the armaments, when it comes to the technology, so much of the stuff that's going on, they are so reliant on that American support, the American material, similar to Lend-Lease, which, of course, has an interesting history in the region as well.

1:48:17Volodymyr Zelensky:And so that's really what it comes down to. I would say the ball is in Washington's court. This meeting that was held in Geneva earlier today, Kushner, Witkoff sitting down with the Ukrainians, we're told that actually didn't go very well. So we'll see what happens with President Trump. Perhaps he makes an announcement tomorrow.

1:48:36Piers Morgan:Yeah, General Kimmy, just to get into another story that's developed today, which is the decision by the Paralympics, the Winter Paralympics, to allow Russian and Belarusian athletes to compete in the Paralympics under the flags of their country, which would be the first time in a major sporting event since the war began. President Zelensky didn't know about this. I broke the news to him, actually. Let's take a look at this moment from the interview. It's dirty decisions. Absolutely. Not respectable and not European. I mean, this is not, I mean, this is Europe from the point of values. I think this is awful decision.

1:49:24Piers Morgan:Absolutely. And not just decision. So we will react. I didn't know about it. thank you that you said to me but I didn't know about it but it's you know it's like the Russian way of life how they began this aggression you know we say

1:49:49Piers Morgan:gripping gripping gripping occupation you know a little bit Crimea nobody answered nobody gave a kick okay Donbass nobody's answering nobody's putting sanctions okay full-scale invasion step by step the Russian way of life the same with Olympic Games Now this came against the backdrop General Kimmich of the FIFA president Gianni Infantino obviously the World Cup coming to United States Mexico Canada this summer saying that football bans on the Russian national team and clubs have achieved nothing but create more hatred. Zelensky's argument is this is all just mission creep by the Russians. The more they can be accepted back into sporting events and so on, particularly under the flags of their country, the more Russia is seen to win and that you've got to stay firm on this.

1:50:51Piers Morgan:What's your view about sport and the part it can play in terms of boycotts or otherwise?

1:50:58Volodymyr Zelensky:Very simple. The 1980 boycott of the Olympics because of the Russian invasion into Afghanistan. That was the precedent at that time. It should continue to be the precedent at this time.

1:51:14Piers Morgan:Just you think it works?

1:51:17Volodymyr Zelensky:this is where values and interests collide it may not be in our interest to have this happen but I think this is where our values need to step in and simply say there was a moral imperative to boycott the 1980 Olympics and I if the if the Russians and Belarus Belorussians are in that then we should boycott the Paralympics as well

1:51:43Piers Morgan:Yeah, Miss Scott Horton, there's a lot of double standards, as President Zelensky pointed out, about all this. And obviously you had the Ukrainian competitor in the Winter Olympics, who was just kicked out because he wore a helmet, which featured the faces of people who'd been killed on the Ukrainian side in the war. And at the same time, you've got the Paralympic committee bosses saying, hey, Russia, Belarus, all is forgiven, come back in. I mean, that appears to me to be a pretty prima facie double standard. But are you of the view that sport can play a part in political pressure or should it stay out of it?

1:52:21Volodymyr Zelensky:The politicians should leave these athletes alone. These people are achieving athletic greatness has nothing to do. I mean, they're representing their country, but they're not representing their national government and its interests necessarily. And, you know, I'm sorry, I forget the specifics, but it's just in the last couple of years, I saw a thing about where a guy talked about how his entire athletic dreams were destroyed when he was not allowed to go to the Olympics in 1980. That was, you know, his path that he had been on working his entire life up until then that was destroyed for that as collateral damage in these people's posturing.

1:52:56Volodymyr Zelensky:And I think more important is to dispute Zelensky's narrative there, which is understandable from his point of view, that Russia gets away with this and then they get away with this and they keep being appeased and then they get hungry or whatever. But I would point out that the Russians say the exact same thing. The way the Americans always invoke Munich and Neville Chamberlain, the Russians invoke Molotov and the deal with Ribbentrop and the pact to appease the Nazis in the East. And they say that here are the Americans, they keep expanding NATO. Now they keep expanding their military equipment into NATO.

1:53:30Volodymyr Zelensky:Now they're making big promises to Ukraine and Georgia. They're, you know, giving all these weapons and increasing what they call interoperability with their military, making them somewhat de facto members of NATO. And we got to draw the line somewhere. We learned the lesson from Hitler that you can appease Hitler and everybody's Hitler. He sounds just like a Democrat. And that's what they all say. And but they're essentially all being children, right? No one here is Churchill and no one here is Hitler and and no one here is Stalin, for that matter. People, this should be hammered out at Geneva, but people are going to have to climb down from their high positions.

1:54:09Piers Morgan:OK, we're going to leave it there. Thank you all very much indeed. I appreciate it very much. Thank you. Thank you.

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