"I'm NOT An Exorcist!" Victor Marx DENIES Lying + Socialist Democrats De-Fund PRISONS

31:17When I meet with Democrats who do a fundraiser going, you've got to help our state. But what we've developed is proprietary technology through a dashboard that we have imported the budget and the 900-page bill, and we can show where the waste and fraud is. And that's what people in positions of power and money and political positions are terrified of. Well, you mentioned fraud. Yeah, you mentioned fraud. Obviously, Barb Kirkmeyer, who was runner-up to be Republican nominee, only lost by 0.5%, he's openly criticized your character, calling you a fraud who doesn't tell the truth. Yeah, she did, and that's okay.

32:03That's all she had. She couldn't attack my policy. She couldn't prove any allegations or lies. So it's just rhetoric that gets told again and again and again. But what's interesting is that without me fighting back, smear campaigns or anything, I just simply tell the truth, tell people what I'm going to do for them. I brought in a lieutenant governor pick who's a 30-year retired colonel. And we're going to take the state back for the people of Colorado. And I encourage people, go to victor2026.com to learn how we're going to take it back and what we're going to do. that terrifies people. If you were to win, yeah, if you were to win, Victor Marks, would you order an investigation into the murder of that homeless man?

32:56Because you would become, I believe, the first governor in the history of the United States to have murdered someone when you were seven years old, albeit you say it was with the coercion of your abusive stepfather, but it's an extraordinary state of affairs that this is an unsolved murder of a homeless man whose body is lying under the floorboards of a property. There must be, if there was a proper investigation, a way to establish where that happened and find out who that person was. If you were governor, would you order that investigation? That's a great question. And it's a good question for a soundbite, Piers.

33:40And I'll tell you this. One, this isn't the state that that happened in of where I was abused. And my goal is to help children never be put in that position of being sexually or physically abused. And that's why we formed the task force that we've been working to protect children for years now in the US. I understand, but wouldn't you feel a duty, wouldn't you feel a duty to the family of the homeless man or whoever that victim is? You're not sure if it was a homeless man or not. I don't think you could be, given you're only seven. But do you not owe it to the family of that victim? You talk a lot about victims.

34:21To go and find out where that victim is still lying, where his remains are, and identify that person. Well, thanks for bringing that up. and from my childhood till in my 50s, I lived with guilt over that. And I don't appreciate you trying to put that back on me. That's everything. I mean, do you have to try that as a reporter to make someone feel bad for something that happened in the childhood these days? Yeah, to be honest, yes, I do. Yeah, Victor, to be crystal clear, My job as a reporter is to report news. You want to be the governor of Colorado. You have confessed that you took part in the murder of what you say was a homeless man whose body was then put under floorboards in a property in Mississippi.

35:17You say you were forced to do it by an abusive stepfather who held the gun with you. Sir, a seven-year-old is not responsible. Look, we work with the law enforcement, state, federal, and local. No one would put that on me. Listen, we turned over any, we told the story, we told what we can. They couldn't find anything. I've done my part. My heart broke for it. I've lived with the shame of that. And I've spent a lifetime trying to help others and prevent kids from being put back in that position of any abuse. So I think my life is redemptive. I'm sad for the evil. And the man who made me do that went to prison.

35:58And I was actually, I encourage people to watch my story on YouTube, the Victor Mark story. If you want to know the truth. Is he still alive, Victor? Is your stepfather still alive? He is not. When did he die? He died a number of years ago. And after he got out of prison. And what I'm grateful for is the power of God to enable me to forgive him for the abuse that he did. And I was at his deathbed in the hospital and was able to forgive him. And that's one thing I want to tell folks. If you were a victim, the shame is not yours, just like you were trying to put on me. And it's important for people to forgive, to give up your right to hurt someone back.

36:47Go for justice, but forgive people who abuse you, or else your heart gets hardened. And that's what my story's about. it's overcoming the evil, because the Bible says what Satan meant for evil, God can return and redeem for good. And those watching, I hope you're never afraid to tell your story, to put down. I hope you're never afraid to be willing to step in the leadership to help others. I wasn't. I'll never be stopped. The people will decide November, and they've already decided June 30th, which is why I won the primary. And I'll keep pressing, again, for affordability, for safety, and for accountability in a corrupt government here in the state of Colorado that proves it doesn't care about its people like it says.

37:35Yeah. I mean, all I would say in response to the incident in which a homeless man was murdered is that there's a victim there too, and that is non-solved murder. and I'm not shaming you. You've explained that you were holding the gun because your abusive stepfather was holding it too and made you do it. And it's not for me to say whether that's true or not. I'm not shaming you for the murder. If you say you were seven and coerced into doing it, I understand what you're saying. But I also understand that an innocent man was murdered and that crime has never been solved and you're big on victims and big on accountability.

38:14but no one's been made accountable for that murder. No one has found the body. There must be a property somewhere that has that body under the floorboards and I think it would be your duty, honestly, if you become governor, to order a proper investigation so that people in your state can actually understand the truth and understand what happened and work out who this person was and what happened to him. I think that would be a good thing to do for his family. Because he also was obviously a victim. He got killed. Yeah, completely. I will say this. He was there to abuse me. He was there to abuse me.

38:55That's in my story. And he changed his mind. And I didn't wait until I was governor in order to try to seek justice. I went to authorities to try to find out and help them find out who this was because of the guilt and shame I lived with as a child all the way to adult. So you're talking to one person that doesn't hide facts, that doesn't... I've had a life of overcoming, and justice matters. So I'm glad you said you're not trying to shame me as a kid who was forced to do something that was horrific. And 123 visits to a trauma specialist proved that. I'm not, but Vita, just to be clear, I would like justice for that homeless man who was brutally murdered.

39:43I would too. And I think that you should want the same. And I want to protect children so that they don't have to be abused. That's what I've been doing with my life. So I hope law enforcement... No, I understand that. But I understand that. But Victor, only one person was murdered that day, and it wasn't you. So the real victim of that incident was the person that was murdered. Sir, part of my soul died that day. Part of my soul died that day. I've lived it within a lifetime. He actually... I understand, but he actually died that day. And I hope they could find something. And we don't know who it was or why he had to die.

40:20Well, I appreciate your heart. Do you care for children? Victor Marks, I appreciate you joining us. Do you care for kids? Do you care for kids who are abused? I do, absolutely, yeah. Okay, glad to hear that. Thank you. But Victor, I thank you very much indeed for joining me. I enjoyed it. Hope to see you again. A lot of airtime is devoted to the so-called MAGA civil war, the apparent decimation of Trump's winning coalition over Iran. But as Trump's approval rating craters, there is a quiet and messy revolution happening in the movement which seeks to replace him. At least 35 candidates, backed by the Democratic Socialists of America, have won primaries against moderate candidates for the midterms.

40:59Their leading lights are Bernie Sanders, Mamdani and AOC, and they have the radical policies to match. fund free health care, fund free housing, defund the Pentagon, defund Israel. Not everyone on the left is happy about it. Not a week goes by where I don't read about some newly chosen, exciting new face in the Democratic Party, and then when that face opens its mouth, the Communist Manifesto or some other crazy shit comes out. Well, the pro-Israel lobby is working overtime to turn this new tide. AIPAC and like-minded groups have spent more than$50 million, a record, backing a pro-Israel candidate in Michigan.

41:39And that's not the only kind of big money that Democratic activists are divided on. Mayor Mamdani's decision to publish the personal details of part-time residents facing his new second-home tax has caused outrage. Professor Scott Galloway, who supports the tax and will pay it himself, accused the mayor of doxing. He's taken a legitimate source of tax revenue and he's turning it into a wanted poster. And the question I would have is, other than trying to identify and imply these people have done something wrong, and then 18 months after a healthcare CEO was executed in the street, and then published the list, what is the upside here?

42:18Well, Democrats are also divided over the role played by streamer Hassan Piker, the nephew of Cenk Uygur, and an extremely popular far-left commentator. CNN regularly asks candidates to disavow him. Others are attacked for hosting him at their events. Legendary Democrat strategist James Carville says that if Hassan Paikah is in, well, he's getting out. I am not going to be in the same party with Hassan Paikah. I can tell you that right now. If he becomes a force in the Democratic Party, I'm out of here. I have no intention of ever being in the same political party with that guy. Well, many believe that ship has already sailed.

42:53They argue that the DNC's bald old men delivered failed candidates like Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris. The success of both Trump and Mamdani, they say, shows the US public is sick of the moderate middle and that only radicals can win. Well, are they right? Well, joining me to debate this, Oliver Larkin, the Democratic Socialist candidate in South Florida, Brianna Joy Gray, the former National Press Secretary to Bernie Sanders, Marianne Williamson, the former Democratic presidential candidate, and Joe Walsh, the former Republican congressman. Well, welcome to all of you. A perfect panel to debate all this.

43:26Marianne Wilson, welcome back to Uncensored. You know, Mamdani may be the most high-profile person in this movement, but he's not an outlier. This is a clip of the DSA national co-chair, Megan Romer, outlining the policies on a Fox News truth or false segment. Let's take a look. Abolish borders and give amnesty to anyone currently in the U.S. illegally. As a long-term plan, yep. Defund the Pentagon. absolutely abolish prisons at least in large part yeah again that as part of a long-term program yeah so i mean marianne according to uh that the dsa wants to abolish borders the senate the presidency the supreme court ice and prisons and give full amnesty to illegal immigrants brianna joy gray and we'll come to you brianna commented these were fundamentally good and correct positions.

44:26Do you think they're fundamentally good and correct positions? Marianne Williamson. Well, I think that the Democratic Party has to stand for a kind of intelligent middle. Whether you are a Democrat or a Republican, you know, they're going to be people who have rather extreme positions. But we need to remember that the American people are not waking up every night, lying awake, worrying about that. What they're worried about is the fact that they can't pay their bills. They're worried about the fact that they don't have food for groceries, They don't have food for gas. They don't know if they can treat their own medical conditions.

44:58They don't know if they can send their kids to college. So when it comes to after the primaries, the Democratic Party has to get on the same page of knowing that we have to deliver for the American people a compelling alternative to Donald Trump and not let this squabbling so separate us that the American people think that that's what the Democratic Party is. We need to keep on policies that will help people, that we can tell people how we're going to pay for them, how it's going to fix their lives, and yes, what we are going to say in response to those who criticize it. There will be people on the fringe in the Republican Party and in the Democratic Party saying extreme things, but we as Democrats need to make sure that we are talking to the American people about things that will fix their lives in a way that could actually win in 2028 and not go into the kinds of extremes that could make some people feel that we're on the left as extreme as some people are on the right.

45:51So just to be clear, you would not agree that those policy ideas would be fundamentally good and correct positions. You would view them as extreme? I think that they are extreme statements about conversations, some of which are legitimate to have. But we need to have an intelligent, legitimate conversations which do not include such extreme positions that it turns people off before they are willing to listen to what you're really trying to say. OK, Brianna Joy Gray, you like these positions. You want to get rid of borders, the Senate, the presidency, the Supreme Court, ICE, prisons, give amnesty to illegal immigrants.

46:28You're exactly the kind of whack job that many people are saying are the problem in the party. Not my words, their words. Why would you support the kind of policies which instinctively most Americans, when they hear them, think whoever thinks that is a whack job? I mean, you can say Americans instinctively feel whatever you say they feel, Piers, but the reality is that polling suggests quite the opposite. The Democratic Socialists of America are polling better than both the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. So I think the question that needs to be asked is of traditional establishment corporate Republicans and Dems, why their party is so tarnished, why their brand is so bad.

47:08that ideas that do seem relatively novel to the average American ear sound a lot more palatable than two parties who say, fund ICE, who's literally murdering American mothers and nurses in the street. Let's have a foreign policy that intentionally creates pressure on the borders. Let's ignore the domestic concerns of Americans who have been struggling for decades with health concerns, with health care, with being able to provide basic needs like education and housing. I think Americans are increasingly aware that this is a sort of three-card Monty, where they're asked repeatedly to look over there at the scary thing.

47:42When you have a government in office currently that ran on and is actively trying to dismantle the Department of Education, dismantle our response to disease, we're in the middle of what is being called a poop pandemic because nobody can even buy bagged veggies anymore in the United States of America. And when people like Zora Mamdani or Oliver Larkin, who's here on the panel with us, offer straightforward comments and solutions, or even old-time ideas like getting rid of the Senate, which is wildly unrepresentative. Does it make common sense to the average American that a state like Vermont should have the exact same representation as a state like California, the world's fifth biggest economy with 30 million people?

48:24No, absolutely not. So I think when you get out of the clickbait Fox News segments with Megan Romer, who I also just recently had on my own show, Bad Faith, by the way, and had an opportunity to have a more fulsome discussion, as Americans hear more about these ideas, they're only going to become more popular. How many illegal immigrants would you let into the country in your brave new world? I think what you need to do is be asking questions about why both Democratic and Republican administrations have a sanctions campaign against Venezuela and other countries in the global south. that dry mass immigration by people.

48:57No, this is a fundamental framing problem that people persistently have. Brianna, Brianna, Brianna, Brianna. Brianna, yes. Simple question. How many illegal immigrants would you let in to the United States under your brave new world? And how many undocumented people would you have Donald Trump or any Democratic president drive out of their country... Why can't you answer my question? ...through a crushing sanctions program like the ones that have been permitted on Venezuela? Why can't you answer my question? like the blockade that's being implemented on Cuba, like the war on drugs... Breanna, you're not answering my question.

49:30...below our border. These are questions you never want to answer, Pierce, because you act like the problem magically materializes... Why don't you just answer my question? It's my show. We should live in a world... It's my show. We should live in a world... I ask the questions. No, I don't know that it works that way, Pierce. Do you want to live in a world where you get to the root... It does work that way. Or do you want to keep hand-wringing and passing the buck and passing blame around is the ultimate goal. Why can't you answer a straightforward question? And people in other countries are able to live their lives in their nations of origin.

50:04Let's try one more time. In peace and prosperity. Let's try... Listen, we're all into utopia. We're just trying to work out how to get there. Then why don't you want to work toward it, Pearson? Do you agree with these crushing sanctions programs that are the root cause of immigration? What I agree with... Do you agree with them? Hang on. Hank, here's my position on immigration in the United States, and then I'll ask you one more time to answer my question. Under Barack Obama, three million people got deported. He was the greatest deporter of immigrants in the history of the United States as a president.

50:38Right? Way more than Trump. Nobody on the left gave a damn. No one on the left even really knows the number. The left, Piers. The left calls him the deporter in chief as a criticism all the time. Liberals didn't care, but the left did care. Hang on, Brianna. Breanna, Breanna. No one on the left cared because it was St. Barack, OK? That is absolutely not true, but go ahead. Hang on. Please stop making speeches. Then Biden comes along, and he allows up to 10 million people to cross the border illegally into the United States. Then Trump replaces him, partly because of what Biden did on the border.

51:12That's why he gets reelected. And he immediately closes the southern border. Your view, unless I'm wrong, is that you basically reopen the border to whoever wants to come in. And my question for you for the last time, if you don't want to answer it, it's fine, is under your plan, how many would you let in over the border illegally into the United States? It's a simple question. My view is that it is deeply naive and frankly sort of dim-witted to believe that the solution to a global immigration crisis, which is only going to get worse because of climate change and because of the kind of international destabilization that you've seen Trump instigate with these wars in Iran that have broadly trickled through the entire Middle East.

51:59Can you answer the question, Brianna? I am answering the question, but the problem is, Piers, you persistently don't want to hear answers to the question that don't fall into your gotcha cycle. You're not answering the question! And some questions, Piers, require a more sophisticated answer than let's throw up a wall on the border that may or may not get to the root of the crisis. I tried. I tried. I tried. We all know why you don't want to put a number on it, because under your utopia. Because it's absurd. There is no number. The goal is to stop immigration. Is it not, Pierce? Is the goal is or is not the goal to stop immigration?

52:33No, your goal is to stop the concept of illegal immigration. No, that's what you're saying my goal is. I'm being very clear about what my goal is, Pierce. As Ronald Reagan, and by the way, as Ronald Reagan once said, very rightly, if you don't have a border, you don't have a country. Let me bring in Joe Walsh. Joe Walsh, you've been grimacing. I don't think I've ever seen anyone pull more faces in a panel in a sustained period of time than you just had. So, look, this is the problem. Utopia is great until you actually hear how you're supposed to get there. And then people don't want to explain because the argument collapses.

53:12Look, Pierce, the problem is, and again, I got all the respect in the world for Breonna. She's right about a lot of things. Both parties suck. We need a revolution in this country. Amen to all of that. But you've got to just simply answer a question and defend the position. And when you go off and just sound like a politician reciting talking points and not answering Pierce's question, it just doesn't help your cause. Look, Pierce, at the very beginning of this segment, you asked about these positions that the DSA has. And the simple answer is the vast majority of the American people do not support open borders.

53:53The vast majority of the American people do not want to defund the police. The vast majority of the American people don't want to get rid of the United States Senate or the Supreme Court or the presidency. Breonna is right, and the Democratic socialists are right, in that the establishment sucks. I come from the Tea Party. Baby, that was an anti-establishment movement. The Democrats, Pierce, are having their anti-establishment movement. Good thing. It's coming from the far left. The far left just needs to be honest about these policies. Most Americans don't support these policies. and Republicans, I used to do this, do a really good job of tagging the whole Democratic policy or party with these policies.

54:38And Democrats need to defend them pretty damn quickly. Yeah, I agree. It reminds me of some of the more lunatic... Hang on, Brianna. I want to bring in Oliver Larkin. You're a Democratic Socialist candidate in South Florida. What is your view about what should be done at the border then? Would you reopen it? Because obviously Trump has closed it effectively. would you reopen the border and allow anyone to come in? We are so far from the conversation of how the United States is not respecting internationally agreed-upon standards for the right of refugees to seek asylum at our border. We're trying all of these tricks and trades, and Joe Biden did it the same way as Donald Trump with the Remain in Mexico.

55:20Hang on, hang on, hang on. Oliver, Oliver, Oliver. Do you think all 10 million that came in in Biden's four years were legitimate refugees and asylum seekers, or were the vast majority people just wanting a better life in America but not wanting to do it legally? I think people who are coming to the United States are seeking a better life. And let's be clear, we're treating, we're talking about immigration as if it is a criminal violation when it is immigration that is not documented, but this is a civil infraction, not a criminal infraction. Well, it is a crime. It is a crime to enter a country illegally.

55:58It is a civil infraction. It's not a criminal act. It's a civil ordinance that is not the same as treating people who are breaking the law. But you accept it's unlawful. The United States has a system that is literally making people lose their documented status. When we have the Department of Homeland Security, that is invalidating temporary protected status for our Haitian neighbours. Yeah, yeah, but Oliver Larkin, do you accept that if you enter... Do you accept, Oliver Larkin, if you accept... Hang on, hang on, hang on. I want to be clear about... I want to be clear what you think. Hang on, Oliver, Oliver.

56:35Do you accept, as a point of principle, that if you enter the United States illegally, you are breaking the law? Yes or no? I think that this is a civil violation. It is not a criminal violation. And frankly... Is it unlawful? entering the United States. Answer the question, Piers. You think it's lawful or unlawful? We need to add more capacity for immigration judges, for people to be able to get documentation because we are so under capacity when it comes to people. It is so cost prohibitive for people, for immigrants to be able to even maintain documented status. They're forced to wait. They're forced to travel overnight to take off of work.

57:17I've been to these facilities, Piers, in Miramar, the Ice Enforcement and Removal Operations Center. People are being forced to sleep on the floor in air-conditioned rooms that are lit 24-7 while their families are outside. They've had to drive from Venice, Florida, or Sarasota, or Titusville three, four hours and taking off work at the drop of a hat just to be able to maintain their status. So we make it so hard on immigrants to be able to even maintain status once they've obtained it. And then we have the Department of Homeland Security that is just blanket invalidating people's status. But that's a different issue.

57:51And they do this to manufacture a political crisis. Hang on, Oliver, Oliver, Oliver. It was known in Trump's first administration that the sanctions on Venezuela... Oliver, I get it, I get it. Oliver. Oliver, I'm not defending everything Trump's done on immigration. I thought some of the behaviour of ICE was disgusting, including the deaths of people in the street, as we saw, which I thought was repulsive and called it out at the time. It went way over the top. However, if I was an American citizen, I would much prefer to have a secure, closed border, pretty much, that Trump has brought in, to the porous, open border that Biden allowed.

58:24And my question for you is now the same one I gave to Brianna that she didn't want to answer, which is if you have your utopia... But you didn't like my answer for it. If you have a democratic, socialist utopia, then how many illegal immigrants would you allow into the country? The system that I believe we should have is one where people are receiving documentation when they apply for asylum or when they apply to immigrate at our borders. So it's sort of a red herring question of what is the level that is acceptable. I want people to be able to receive the documentation, to be able to work and live freely in the United States and not have this legal limbo hanging over people's heads.

59:01I mean, we're treating amnesty as if it's a dirty word. Ronald Reagan, you invoked Ronald Reagan's name. Ronald Reagan supported amnesty. I believe that we need to have amnesty. We have an overburdened immigration system that has not had the capacity. I'm not saying that we've had too many people enter the United States. Oliver, you don't have to keep making a campaign speech. Would you therefore let everybody in who wanted to come in? If people have a desire to come live and work in the United States, then I want to facilitate that. and we can do that and still maintain public safety. I think that was actually...

59:44That's an attorney and probably the only person in the interview who ever actually processed an immigration plan. Hang on. I want to bring in Marianne here. I want to bring back Marianne here. You see, Marianne, this is exactly the problem that I think people have latched onto, that Joe Walsh was touching on, that Bill Maher has been talking about, is that when you hear that response, what this person, Oliver Larkin, is actually saying is he would let everybody into the United States. There would be no border. Without a border, there is no United States. There's no country. So this is the problem, isn't it, Marianne?

1:00:18You've got a wing of the party that are saying these things which are, I've got to say, even me, you skew slightly liberal, right? Probably in a more old-fashioned Bill Maher way. I just find that... I'm incredulous that a politician in America would just open the border to anyone who wants to come in. I'm sorry, Pierce. I've been listening, and I did not hear him say that. We used to have an immigration system in this country that worked. And what has happened is that, and this is Congress's fault mainly, one of the reasons why you have so many people entering illegally, and I think Oliver is making a good point, that this is a civil violation.

1:00:57Some of these people, and we know the humanitarian crises that lead so many people to take such desperate measures, and we also need to be having an intelligent conversation about how much U.S. foreign policy, including our war on drugs and our economic policies towards Latin America for decades, has contributed to that mass amount of desperation. They have made it so that there aren't enough stations, there aren't enough places where people can enter legally. There aren't enough places where there are judges and ways to adjudicate. This was just something that Biden was working on when he was president, and it was Donald Trump who came in and told the GOP senators, even though it was a bipartisan bill, not to vote for it, and he did that because he knew it would be popular, the American people would appreciate it, and that would give Biden a win.

1:01:43So obviously, the answer is not either just open borders or closed borders. It is that intelligent middle. The asylum system is a humanitarian core of a principled America. We just have to vet people. We have to have enough judges. We have to do this legally. So I didn't hear Oliver say that, And I don't think the American people want either extreme, either open borders where people aren't even vetted, and they also don't want a shutting down of America's heart. Joe Walsh. No, that's, by the way, what Marianne just said there is absolutely correct. And look, I'm somebody who would abolish ICE tomorrow.

1:02:25What Trump has done with immigration enforcement is take it to a cruel, ugly, un-American place. This shouldn't be going on. But this is a dangerous overreaction to what the Democrats had done under Joe Biden when they opened things up. And Marianne's right. Most Americans don't like what ICE is doing. Most Americans don't want this going on on our streets, but most Americans want America to have a damn border. I agree with a lot of what Oliver's saying, but when you just say you'd let them all in and then we'll figure out how to process them and all the rest. No, there needs to be a border, period.

1:03:03And we've got DSA candidates out there saying we want open borders. If you say you want open borders, then damn it, defend it. Defend it. Can you name which DSA candidates that they supported open borders? Chavalier, the one out in Colorado. The one sitting next to you on the panel. Oliver Larkin just said it. He just told you that's not true. As an attorney and probably the only person who's actually handled an immigration case on this panel, everything that Oliver and Marianne have said about the failure of our processing system, like, I think most people have an intuitive sense. People are coming across, you need to be able to sort people into, is there national security risk?

1:03:44Is this someone who is not fleeing drug crime and drug trafficking, but someone who is doing that themselves? Are these people that can be put on a path towards citizenship? But the problem is we have a backlog that lasts years and years and has only gotten worse since the days when I was an attorney precisely because there has been an unwillingness to hire, train and recruit administrative law judges who can actually process this claim. So what you have is a party that is intentionally gumming up the process and then flinging their hands in the air and trying to politically exploit the negative consequences of not having the crisis that has ensued.

1:04:18And if you want to talk about hugely unpopular 60-40 issues, the elephant in the room is that part of why all of these DSA candidates are so popular is because of Gaza. That's a 60-40 issue against Israel. We have both mainstream parties. Brianna, respectfully, a lot of these DSA candidates are very, very popular with left and left of center people in Democratic Party, but they're not popular with all Americans. And when you put their policy positions in front of America, most Americans say no. most. Joe, this is what's so frustrating, because when it comes to an issue like Medicare for all that 88 percent of Democratic voters support and 49 percent of Republicans, half of Republicans also support, we're never doing all of this alarmism about how, wow, there's this really popular policy that we just can't get the two major parties on board with.

1:05:06When we're talking about stopping funding to the genocide in Gaza, which, again, is a majoritarian issue against funding Israel, there's none of this hand-wringing about, oh, my gosh, we need to do DEFUND THE PENTAGON? BRIANA, WOULD YOU DEFUND THE PENTAGON?

1:05:27WALSH, I WANT YOU TO ASK YOURSELF THE QUESTION WHY YOU HAVE A PENTAGON THAT HAS FAILED 6, 7, 8, NOW? I ASKED A SIMPLE QUESTION. PENTAGON HAS PROBLEMS. BUT WOULD YOU DEFUND IT? WOULD YOU GET RID OF AMERICA'S ENTIRE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT? YOU GUYS HAVE TO STOP WITH THIS ABSURDISM THAT TO DEFUND SOMETHING, TO DECREASE THE FUNDING OF SOMETHING IS THE SAME us to abolish it. When you want to abolish it, they get abolished. No, it's not to decrease. I'm talking about defunding. When you say defund the police, when you say, Brianna, defund the police, you're talking about getting rid of the police. Joe, we live in a country that defunds social services every year.

1:06:02We have a government right now that is defunding health care every year. And there is, again, no... No, I don't think you understand. Brianna, Brianna, Brianna, of dollars. Brianna. Brianna. Brianna. Brianna. Brianna. I'm here. I'm here. Brianna. Stop talking. Stop talking. Brianna. It's not your show. I know it gets confusing. It's my show. Okay. You're a guest on my house. So please stop talking for a moment because it's very interesting your interpretation of what defund means. As Joe Walsh rightly says, the actual interpretation of defund the police or defund the Pentagon or whatever it may be is you get rid of that institution and you replace it for something else.

1:06:50No, that's what you're saying. Your English dictionary does not define defund in that way. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. So I'm asking you whether you mean a decrease in the amount that you fund these organizations with or do you believe in abolishing them? Would you abolish the police? Would you abolish the Pentagon? Would you abolish prisons? Yes, no, yes, no, yes, no. If you want to know what me, Brianna and Joy Gray, you can come on my show and we can debate my views at length. But I think what the viewers want to know... Answer my question. That's why you're here. No, why we're here is to discuss DSA candidates and people who are running for office, not one 40-year-old woman sitting in her apartment in Washington, D.C.

1:07:29So if you want to talk about what the movements to defund the Pentagon are about... Can you answer my questions, please? Wait, it's about asking the question of whether or not we should continuously increase funding an unprecedentedly high military budget year after year to an institution that literally fails its audits and can't even account for where the money is going. Brianna, defund means no money for, period. I'm sorry, Joe? No money for. Defund means you abolish it. No, those are two different words. Let me try one more time. It's very interesting, Piers, that you use two different words there.

1:08:03Let me try one more time. Let me try one more time, given you don't know what defund actually means. Oh, I know what defund means a lot better than you do, Pierce, as evidenced by the fact that you chose to pivot to abolish because you can discern a distinct difference between those two terms. Defunding, just like when Republicans say they want to defund the Department of Education, they want to defund things day and night. The whole point of Doge was to defund the national government. And again, I don't see all the hand-wringing about that. The Pentagon, no one here can answer the direct question of whether or not they believe the Pentagon, which has an unprecedentedly large budget that cannot pass an audit for eight, nine years in a row should get increased funding.

1:08:40Let me try. Do you think that's the case, Joe? OK, Brianna. Brianna. Brianna. Brianna. Brianna. Once again, it's my show, so I do the questions and then you answer them or you choose not to. I'm just going to repeat again. Whatever your interpretation of defund is, and you clearly have a different one to mine and Joe's, OK. Mine is the English dictionary. As part of that debate for one moment. well it actually means to stop providing money or it can mean to reduce the amount of money so it depends what interpretation i'm glad you've acknowledged that now but as but as you know but as you know but as you know in the general debate about this it's been accepted that when people have said defund they mean abolish so let me just clarify with you what you personally believe would you in your utopia world would you abolish the pentagon abolish the police and abolish prisons Yes or no?

1:09:32Pierce, it's wild that you talk about the general debate about this when you're the one hosting the debate and creating the ambiguity by posing questions exactly like that. Answer the questions. Defund means decrease funding for. Brianna, would you abolish those institutions? Abolish means get rid of entirely. That is a clear answer to your question. Defund means decrease funding for. Would you? Abolish means abolish entirely. Period. I'm asking you if you would abolish them. Would you abolish them? Why do you care what I personally, Brianna Joy Gray, I know why you care. Because you're a guest on my show.

1:10:02No, because you want to make this a conversation about whatever. I am to the left, way to the left. I just want to know what you think. Why is this so difficult? This is excruciating. This is not a referendum on me. This is a referendum on the actual DSA and the candidates. Brianna, Brianna, Brianna, Brianna, Brianna, Brianna, Brianna, Brianna, you were invited as a guest onto a panel to debate the future of the Democratic Party. in light of the rise of a democratic socialist. So let's debate that and not my personal belief. Wait a minute, Brianna. We want to talk about the Democratic Party and the DSA and the candidates that are running under those banners.

1:10:38Given that the democratic, given that, I'm going to keep talking over you if you keep talking. Given that the democratic socialist candidates Right, right back at you. espouse a philosophy where they want to abolish all these institutions, I'm just asking you, Brianna, whether you personally would like to abolish the Pentagon, the police, and prisons. Yes or no? I, Brianna, think it's Brianna with an ah sound, think it's absolutely unconscionable that you can say a kind of mealy-mouthed, yeah, I think it was really bad that ICE murdered American citizens in the street, but want to make this a referendum of whether I, one socialist, happened to believe in abolishing those programs?

1:11:19To me, the answer is yes. Here she ain't going to do it. The absolute long-term goal. I just answered the question. Yes or no? The long-term... Yes or no? The answer is affirmatively yes. Yes or no, Brianna. I personally, absolutely, me, Brianna Joy Gray, since the world is clamoring for my one woman's opinion, absolutely do believe in abolish the police, abolish the Senate, abolish the Pentagon. I do not think the American war machine, which has caused unfathomable horrors across the globe, the entirety of all of our living memory, should persist. Got it. We've got that. I think absolutely the Pentagon is a force for evil in the world.

1:11:53We got her answer, Pierce. I think the police... We got it. We got it. We got you on the record. That's a wrap. That's a wrap. We got it. We got it. Brianna, Brianna, it's a wrap. It's a wrap. It's a wrap. Brianna, it's OK. Sorry, Brianna, just to be clear, you've agreed you would abolish the... Wait a minute, Brianna. Please stop talking. You would abolish the Pentagon and the police. You said, what about prisons? Would you abolish prisons? Oh, they're first on the list. Just like the DSA, Megan Romer, said... Great, great. OK. Let me go to all of them. No, no, it's all right. We're done. Let me be clear.

1:12:25We're done. We're done. I got my answers. It was utter torture. But you want to abolish these things. Okay, Brianna, thank you. Brianna, Brianna, it took a long time, but we got the answers eventually. Thank you. That's why you're here. Let me ask Oliver Larkin. Let me ask Oliver. Please stop talking. Stop talking. I'm talking to Oliver Larkin. Please stop talking, Brianna. Or I'll have to mute you. Do you want me to mute you? I will have to mute you if you keep talking. If that's the only way you can win the argument, Piers, go ahead. OK, mute. Just temporarily mute Brianna, please. Just because you can't stop talking.

1:13:02Let me go to Oliver Larkin. I'll bring you back, Brianna, when you stop talking. Oliver Larkin, the same questions to you, which we eventually got the answer to from Brianna Joy Gray, because I'm astonished about what I'm hearing. Would you abolish the Pentagon, the police and prisons? Yes or no? I just got to say, I feel like I'm on Around the Horn with uh tony reality on espn i didn't know the mute button worked on a news broadcast um i i believe that you know we have a system that has private prisons literally profiting off of mass detention and deportation 170 plus billion dollars went towards ice and the one big beautiful bill last year and i'm coming to you from a district with the corporate headquarters of the geo group the private prison corporation okay so what are the answers to the questions we need to abolish system that allows for the private for-profit detention of individuals in the largest mass incarceration country on earth.

1:13:55What would you do with the police and the Pentagon? I'm saying private prisons must be abolished. GeoGroup, CoreCivic. We need to reduce the amount of incarceration in the United States, end the war on drugs, end the war on communities of color. Would you abolish the Pentagon and police? No, I would not abolish the Pentagon. I do believe that the Pentagon could stand for at least a 10 % cut in its funding. We need to stop this nuclear proliferation that is incredibly expensive. We have more nuclear weapons than we can ever reasonably spend. And as Brianna said, you know, the Pentagon has not passed an audit in years and years and years.

1:14:33We're seeing record Pentagon budgets and yet a complete deficiency in our inventory of missile interceptors, of all the things that we're actually supposed to be getting when we invest record amounts in the Pentagon, we don't actually get them because there's so much waste, fraud, and, yes, abuse in this system that enriches private military contractors in D.C. I wouldn't take issue. Oliver, I wouldn't take issue with reforming the Pentagon at all. What about the police? Would you abolish the police? We need to invest in the things that actually prevent crime, like ensuring that we have quality universal child care, paid family and medical leave.

1:15:13But that's still the question, Oliver. Come on. Just give me a straight answer.

1:15:20Piers, there's always going to be a role for law enforcement in any government in any country. But the question is how much of our resources are we devoting? Are municipalities supposed to be spending up to 50 % of their budget on police? That's just an extraordinary amount of money. that's going towards things that don't actually prevent crime. Oliver, just to be clear, Oliver, I don't need the endless speeches. You would not abolish the police then? You would keep it? Come on, Piers, I'm running for office. I've got to do a speech every now and then. I'm giving you my answer. But not every single time.

1:15:56You wouldn't abolish the police, would you? Nearly the amount of money that we're spending on police, and again, I think the privatisation of so many of these services... OK, so you reduce the spending, but you would keep the police? I think as a long-term goal, I would like to see systems in this country that don't have so much militarization of police. Hey, Pierce, by the way, can I give a quick compliment to Oliver? Democratic Socialist, Oliver, first time I've met you, Pierce, he's running for office. And he's been honest with you. And he realizes, my God, I can't say abolish the police or abolish the Pentagon.

1:16:33Yeah, I know. You're formally, you're abolishing. I know. I get that. Yeah, and by the way, it's a significant difference between what Brianna said and what he's saying. And you can see Oliver's tormented mind working in real time trying to work out how he says this without people on the Democratic... So, well, the problem, Oliver, as you know, the problem is a lot of people... Hang on! A lot of people on the Democratic socialist side will be agreeing with her, not you. And you know that, so you're not going to have to pick up the pieces when they come after you. Marianne, let me just finish with you, if I may.

1:17:05This is, to me, it's been really fascinating. A, the torturous attempts I've had to make to extricate simple answers to simple questions. And B, the clear divide between people like Brianna Joy Gray, who openly now admit they would get rid of the Pentagon, the police and the prisons. And you have Oliver Larkin, Democratic Socialist candidate in South Florida, who does not want to commit to any of those things. And there, right there, is the split in the Democratic Party which so many Democrats are concerned about because ultimately you're never going to have a better chance, I would argue, to beat the Republicans in the midterms than the ones coming up in November with the fiasco of the Iran war, with the fallout from the tariff war and so on.

1:17:51And then, of course, if you were to win, you know, the whole of Congress, the House and the Senate in November, it would be probably unstoppable momentum to win the general election. So this is a really critical time for the party. And yet here you have the party completely split over these incredibly consequential things, like whether you would abolish these great pillars of the American state. That's the problem, isn't it? Not entirely, no. I think what's the problem is the tenor of this conversation. I think it's kind of tragic, because everything that we have talked about here is extremely important.

1:18:27It's important for us, for our country, for our children, and for generations to come. and yet we could not have anything above a sophomore conversation, not really listening to one another, not creating a space where anyone can speak with nuance, attacking each other. And that's what turns voters off, by the way. And so we have got to recreate the field of conversation here. It's not always... You know what it is, though, Marianne? Marianne, if I could jump in there. Let me jump in there for a moment because I think Joe Walsh was right about this. What voters really don't like, whether it's from politicians or pundits or whatever, is when they're asked a straightforward, simple question, they don't answer it.

1:19:06And it has to be teased and tormented out of them. I just think the people that I admire in public office are the ones, when you ask them a straight question, they give you a straight answer. The panel members that I admire most of my show are the same, right? And actually, the ones who can have intellectual honesty and maybe deviate sometimes from their own side on issues, I particularly admire. But in relation to the simple process of answering a question, the public hated when people refused to do that. Well, I hear that, definitely. And clearly, Brianna had very strong opinions and Oliver's running for office.

1:19:42We understand that. But I have travelled this country a lot as a candidate and also not as a candidate. And I think what people want is an adult conversation. That's what people want. And adults get down and get real. I have talked to so many people in this country and they'll say, well, that conservative value, that's a point. That progressive value was a point. That DSA value was a point. That liberal value was a point. So you say people just want somebody who can answer a question. Yes, we do. But I think people are very turned off by the attacking, by the way it has to be, yes, no, yes, no.

1:20:15And for that, I do think Oliver was trying to say, we need to have police, of course, we need to have police, but we need to have an intelligent conversation about it. We need to have the Pentagon, but we need to have an intelligent conversation about it. I think we'd all agree we need to abolish ICE. So I'm all for a more intelligent conversation with the American people. That's what they have in a lot of countries, and if they can do it, we can too. We talk to voters like they're in the seventh grade, and we should not be surprised at the results that we're getting because of it. OK, let me unmute Brianna.

1:20:52purely because i want to say goodbye to all the panel and i want to give you the chance to say goodbye pierce so uh thank you to all my panel i appreciate it thanks pierce thank you pierce thanks pierce i'm not a democrat pierce just a clarification that's the point you're still me she's still muted hang on i can't hear her fancy that i said pierce i'm not a democrat just a clarification i am not a democrat i don't affiliate with the Democrat, and I'm well to the left of the DSA, and I'm also not a member of the DSA. Well, there we go. A nice, clear statement from Brianna Joy Gray. An unusual moment in this panel's event.

1:21:28When you give them the opportunity to speak, I can be very clear, Pierce. Thanks for having me. Oh, I think we've all agreed that you can speak. Thank you all very much indeed. I appreciate it. Thank you, everyone. Pierce Morgan, our sense that is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.