‘I’m NOT Hiding ANYTHING!’ Egyptologist Zahi Hawass Grilled On Pyramids By Experts

27:05And tomographic radar can show only 15 meters under the ground. Only. The second thing about the Sphinx, this theory is published recently, but it is published 20 years ago again. And they said south of the recent Sphinx, there is another one. And this area, I want you to come. Come. I will take you. This has been excavated completely to the solid rock. There is no one single place in this area can accommodate a second Sphinx. And now the question is, why do we have a second Sphinx? There is no reason to do that. The third point for you, we welcome anyone who comes from a university or a museum, a scientist.

27:56someone should be connected with a scientific institution, welcome to come and do any research. We have a department committee that permit people to work, but you have to be connected with an institution. OK, Michael, just for the record, have you been to the pyramids? I have not been to the pyramids, and I'm hoping to. And I just want to state that I do not necessarily agree with the findings of these scientists. My broader point is that the data that they presented was just immediately rejected without any kind of proper investigation, without any kind of digging into the Giza Plateau. Like, why have we not just dug down and then we could settle this argument once and for all?

28:35Because it seems that we're all here discussing this and I haven't even been to Egypt, and we could just settle this straight away by digging into the Giza Plateau and confirming or denying this is true. Why can't we just dig down and find out? I know. You know, it's the solid rock. The second pyramid, the base is 10 metres of solid rock. How can you look what's underneath a solid rock? But in relation earlier to this, you know, this hidden corridor and sealed door and stuff, you said there's now technology that means you don't need to drill. So is there not technology... But you cannot go through 10 metres.

29:09You can't? But tell me, if any scientist can look underneath, welcome. So you have no problem with people... At all. I have no problem at all on that. Okay. Giza Plateau is open to any scientists who really can do any investigation. OK, let me bring in Jimmy Corsetti. Welcome to you, Jimmy. You're an investigative researcher. And after our last conversation with Zahi, there were lots of comments that kind of flooded in here. Mosh Jelton said there are gatekeepers at the top of every industry that will keep anybody they can below them under any circumstance. Ali El Saeed says, as an Egyptian. I reject Zahi as a spokesperson for our history.

29:52The pyramids construction remains a mystery. Doug Lynch, I love how traditional Egyptian scientists are firmly convinced the Egyptians built the pyramids and yet not a single one can tell us how they did it. And Kay Marham said after years of research and excavation, Zahi Hawass discovered the pyramids were built in his honour, which made me chuckle. But what is your... You've got the great man sitting here. I think he is a great man. certainly one of, as he, by his own admission, one of the two great experts of this and the world. I have to say that having finally come face-to-face with this monster, as some people in the alternative world view him, I see a guy who's not only incredibly expert in the pyramids, has written a thousand-page book about it, was modest enough to say there's another guy out there, an American, who is as expert as he is, but also is so palpably excited by the idea of new discovery and detail what that could be, you know, this new tomb that could be uncovered, that isn't the kind of reaction, if I'm honest, Jimmy, as somebody that I get the feeling is trying to hide things.

30:56So why is the alternative community so fixated on the fact that this guy is some kind of controlling gatekeeper monster who doesn't want anyone to know anything? Well, let me first say, Piers, nice to see you again. Thank you for having me on. And actually, we had all done a podcast or an interview together last July where I got to meet Zahi and chat with him here. And nice to see you again, Zahi. And I want to apologize to you. I interrupted you a few times last July. I meant no disrespect to you. And I certainly do not think that you're a monster, Zahi, whatsoever. In fact, I think that you're a good man.

31:32And I think that most of this spreads from myself as a conspiracy theorist. But I consider myself more level-headed. Like, for example, I do not think that the pyramids were built by aliens. I think we're... Do you believe they were built by humans, just for the record? Yes, I do. I think that humans, if we were to get a time machine and go back and snatch some people up from, say, the 18th century and bring them today and fly them over New York City or London, they might think they're on a different planet. I think that what human beings are capable of is, you know, the sky's the limit. There's nothing, anything that we can conceive of, we can do.

32:09So no, I do believe it was humans. However, I think that they were far more advanced than what we were taught in school. The ascribed techniques for how the pyramids were allegedly constructed have been tested and debunked. I do not believe they were constructed with copper chisels and stone hammers. There's other mysteries, for example, how they transported 1 ,000 metric ton statues hundreds of miles. But to answer your question, I think it comes from transparency. There have been examples where the public has felt that things weren't done on the up and up, for example, exploring cavities below the Sphinx.

32:43Back in 2009, Zahi Awas and Dr. Lehner had drilled down to explore the water table under the Sphinx's left paw. And he said there was nothing down there. However, photos were never released to the public. I also want to point out that when we had our conversation last July of 2025, Zahi, you had mentioned that the Great Pyramid Void would be explored by the end of the year. And then that came and went and still hasn't happen. Now you're saying that they're going to explore it in June. So just to clarify, will they be drilling inside? I understand you had mentioned techniques to explore without drilling.

33:17Will we be going in in some capacity? Now, first I have to answer the first question that you asked about that the what we found in front of the sinks that's not available to the public this is not true we found four tunnels under the sinks and it's published in an article scientific article secret tunnels under the sinks number one number two when I found out the rise of the water table I I brought a team from Kine University, and we drilled 32 drilling underneath the Sphinx. And we found nothing. The Sphinx is a solid rock. All what I'm telling you now, published in our book to the public. You can buy this book published by Tim St.

34:09Hudson and read about what we found underneath the Sphinx. About, I want you to know, archaeology is not really something that you have to go tomorrow and open this. You have to study. I'm working now with a team from England, and we have also a team from France and a team from Japan. All of us are really trying to reveal the secret of the Great Pyramid and to announce anything that we found. The team that working with me, until now, they cannot find a way of how can we found what could be inside the 30 meters void or the other void in the second chamber or the corridor. Now they're coming in June.

34:55We'll try again. Then we will always try with the new techniques that we have now, like ultrasound, infrared, millions. All these new techniques can really reveal all these voids. And, Jimmy, have you been to the pyramids? Yes, I've been three times. And when you get there, I mean, do you feel the same frustration that you feel like you're not being told the truth about stuff? Or do you accept that the monumental scale of these pyramids is such that it's a very complex thing? Well, I will say that there are a lot of locked gates in Giza. There's most of Giza you're not even allowed to explore.

35:33I will say, though, that as far as, you know, taking time to analyze a potential discovery, this void within the Great Pyramid was identified in late 2016. And the results were formally published in a journal in 2017. So we're talking 10 years ago now and we still haven't gone inside. And you have a particular issue, I think, with the the tomb of the Osiris mummy. So for those who are not familiar. Tomb of Osiris. Osiris mummy. Yes. So explain what that is. and what your issue with it is. OK, so Zahi, back in, I believe it was 1999, you did a Fox special where you had went down into the Osiris shaft.

36:13And at that time, you were in the process of excavating the tomb that's on the third level down. And you said that you believed at that time that it was the tomb of the Egyptian god Osiris. And then nothing was ever released to the public again after that. I never received any type of information regarding who the mummy was, what the mummy was. And it just, that was it. So I guess my question for Zahi, I'd very much like to know, is what did you find inside that sarcophagus? Okay. When I opened the sarcophagus, it was completely empty. Because Osiris is a myth. He's the one who controlled the underground tunnels at Giza.

36:54Because Giza, this is, and this is why there is no mummy that we found. And all of this, we published. We published that this is the symbolic burial of the tomb of Osiris, who control the underground tunnels at Giza Plateau. But there is no mummy. This is the first time I hear about a mummy found in the sarcophagus. But if you want to know about what we found in details, I published an article in a book dedicated to David O 'Connor from the University of Pennsylvania, and it's written in our big book on Giza. OK, let me bring in Arthur. Do you find it odd that that sarcophagus was empty? I mean, and I also, you know, I want to circle back to the...

37:38Why would he lie? What would be the motivation for covering anything up? Maybe that the... You know, you could say that what they found in there wasn't what they expected it to be. What do you think it is? Well, what could it be thousands of years later? No. Here's a question. Here's an important question for everyone to consider. The ancient Egyptians dug out the Osiris shaft, which extends approximately 100 feet under the ground. They had this sophisticated tomb with four large obelisks or pillars surrounding it with a moat. You should look at pictures of this. It's fascinating. And all of that with this, what, 50, 60-ton sarcophagus.

38:15The lid itself, I believe, was 10 or 15 tons. All for nothing. All for a complete empty burial. It's just like... Yeah, but again, Jimmy, again, I come back to the central question. What is in it for Zahi to lie or to cover this up? Why would he? There's no one alive who's going to contradict anything that comes out. It's like, this would just be a matter of historical artifact fact. I mean, the idea that they would find something incredible and then just not tell us, I just think it doesn't make any sense. Unless it upended, unless it upended, I agree with you, and I'm not accusing Zahi of lying about this.

38:49I believe him that the sarcophagus was found empty. I don't think that he's lying about that. But I'd say the only motivation that I could think of, or the main motivation, I should say, would be that it upends the narrative of Egyptian history that potentially what they found in it dates back far older. Now, with that being said... But again, why would Zai, if that was true, why would he not view it with the same incredible excitement and enthusiasm he's been talking about potentially discovering the tomb of Khufu, for example? I mean, I don't detect from him a need to suppress stuff. I detect the opposite.

39:23And yet you guys are all out there going, he knows stuff. He's not being clean with us. And I'm not really sure where you get this from or what his motivation would be. I could give you an example. So if you were to go to my X or Instagram account, I uploaded a video I had made four years ago discussing where Zaheer Was had explored the alleged tunnels and chambers under the Sphinx and claiming that there's nothing there. However, he never mentioned that there was nothing inside of the Sphinx. And thankfully for a couple of intrepid fellows that broke the rules in Egypt and climbed under this area under the Sphinx themselves, and they climbed up in it.

39:57And you can see this boarded-off cavity, this tunnel, that was not described at all in Zahi's findings. You can't find any pictures of this boarded-up shaft as well, but it does exist. It's in the book. Zahi? It is not true. If you go to the book, you'll find a photograph of all the four tunnels that we found inside the Sphinx. And we discovered inside these tunnels, pottery in situ, date these tunnels to 500 BC. As we think today, there is something hidden underneath the Sphinx. The Egyptians in the late period thought the same and they dug and they found nothing. And all this go to my book and look at these tunnels.

40:43The article is called Tunnels Under the Sphinx. I explained in details all the dimensions of each tunnel and what we found inside. Then we are not really hiding anything. It's you because maybe you do not have access to Egyptology library. But go to the British Museum and look for Zai Hawass publication on the Sphinx and you will read what we found. I suspect you'll sell a few copies after this, Zai. There's something important to see here. Hang on one second, Jimmy. I want to bring in our last guest. He's been very patient. Timothy Auburin, author and explorer known as the rogue archaeologist.

41:18So rogue archaeologist, you have your chance to talk directly to Zahi. What would you like to ask him? Well, first of all, I'm certainly not an archaeologist, rogue or otherwise. How would you describe yourself? I'm an investigative researcher. I would like to make a proposition. So you're not known as a rogue archaeologist, just to be clear? um i've been called that but i just want to make people i want to make it clear that i'm not a lettered archaeologist okay um but i i would like to make a proposition to mr hawass here on your program uh for whom i have a great deal of respect by the way thank you my team is in my team is in possession of state-of-the-art uh ground penetrating radar and it operates off of a drone platform and we can penetrate 300 feet beneath the surface of the earth.

42:12We could penetrate through solid rock with this technology. We've used it to great effect in other places in the world, including in Peru, where we scanned a pyramid, the Chongos Pyramid, and we discovered some massive underground tunnels, apparently artificial. So would you be willing to facilitate me and my team to come to the pyramid of Cofre to fly it around the pyramid and to do a scan and to see if we can either validate or invalidate this idea of this colossal megastructure under the pyramid. Okay, one thing I need from you, you know from Bear's assistant, take my email. Send me an email and send me the type of equipment that you can use.

43:01I will send it to sean who's the head of my team and if we do not have it it would be fantastic to have your equipment to be uh working in the second pyramid but you have to know this takes time to apply and security and all this kind of but i would be happy to cooperate and talk to you and find out if this techniques you have it and we don't have great i think this is great so yeah email him if they if If they are not familiar with this particular technology, then it looks like Zahi's up for giving it a go, which is great. Very good. And, Timothy, I think you also have a particular sort of approach on this, that you tell the story of ancient archaeology, albeit your caveat that you're not an expert archaeologist in that sense, within a biblical framework.

43:52How do the pyramids tie into that? Well, I'm not really sure... I'm asking Timothy. I'm not really sure who built the pyramids. I certainly do not believe that aliens built the pyramids. I do suspect, though, that they correlate to the global system of megalithic complexes that are found around the world, many of which I believe were built in the antediluvian world during the time, which is variously described as the Golden Age by the ancients or referred to as Zeptepe by the ancient, by the dynastic Egyptians, Zep-Tepi meaning the first time. And this is the, you know, this is the ubiquitous testimony of our ancient antecedents, that there was a time before the great cataclysm when the gods were dwelling among men and were imparting to them the arts of civilization.

44:47Everybody all around the world have traditions to this effect, especially in the ancient Near East, ancient Egypt, obviously, the ancient Mesopotamians, the Phoenicians, the Greeks, the Romans. In Hebrew cosmology, these beings are known as the Watchers. The ancient Mesopotamian tradition calls them the Apkalu. So you have this ancient witness, this, again, from our antecedents, rather, saying that the gods were dwelling on earth, whoever these gods were, in some cases they were copulating with human women who were progenerating demigods, in some cases giants, and that there were extraordinary things happening in the world before the great cataclysm.

45:32Certainly the ancient Egyptians believed in not just one great cataclysm, but several. We're all very much familiar with the biblical account of the flood, of the Noahic flood, which I believe is true. I think evidence does point to the idea that civilization didn't begin with the ancient Egyptians or the ancient Mesopotamians. It re-began. It was a restart of civilization in the aftermath. So to be clear, Timothy, what you're saying is that you don't believe they were built by ordinary humans. I'm not sure who built the pyramids. I don't know. I think it's possible that these megastructures fall into the same category and time frame as some of the other or megalithic structures around the world, which I do believe are antediluvian, maybe going back to, you know, circa 10 ,000 and 12 ,000 BC.

46:20Explain what you mean by that, sorry, for a native like me. What do you mean? By the antediluvian? Antediluvian, yeah. I mean, the world before the flood, the world before the Noé flood. So are you implying by saying that, then, that it could be non-human construction? It could be. It could be, you know, I mean, again, And the Mesopotamians attributed the arts of civilization to the Apkalu, who were not human beings. Okay. These were viewed as... Let me bring in Zaheem. What's your response to that? I am not going to give you a lecture of why pyramids built by the ancient Egyptians. But I will give you one example.

47:03In 2017, a papyri discovered called Dawadi al-Jarf papyri, written in hieroglyphic and hieratic. It's a diary. of someone, his name is Miller, an overseer of the workman. He said, I was hired by Kofu to work in his pyramid. Under me was 40 workmen. My immediate boss, his name is Didi. And I discovered west of the great pyramid, the tomb of his boss, Didi. He went to cut the white fine limestone, means the pyramid was finished. And he explained how they cut the stones. And they put the stones in a wooden, in a cargo boat. and he takes the boat to Giza Plateau. He stays overnight, he goes again.

47:48The papyri needs an hour to explain. So do you have any doubt at all? No. Human beings constructed the pyramid? No one single doubt with me. You're 100 % sure? 100 % sure that the ancient Egyptian built the pyramid. We have many evidence to prove that. But if pyramids built by aliens or anyone else, do we have anything found to prove that? The answer is no. Let me just quickly ask the other two panel members. Michael, first, do you think humans built the pyramids? I do think humans built the pyramids, but I don't think the real debate was whether the ancient Egyptians were incredible or sophisticated.

48:29They clearly were an incredibly remarkable civilisation. I think the question is all regarding their civilisational development. Why does the peak of sophistication appear right at the start with the Old Kingdom, and then why is it a slow trawl downwards into less sophisticated? Why do they forget how to build pyramids so well? Why are the pyramids so unbelievably mathematically precise that we probably couldn't even recreate it today without extremely modern machinery? Why are all these questions out there? Why, there's so many things that don't make sense. Why do we not find any mummies within the Great Pyramid?

49:01Why are there no royal inscriptions or any inscriptions at all inside the Great Pyramid like we find in every other Egyptian tomb? There are so many mysteries. And I just think that we need to be more open to the fact that there are mysteries that we cannot answer and stop claiming. So what percentage certainty are you? If Zahi's at 100%, what are you about humans? That the Egyptians built the pyramids? Yeah, the humans built them. Oh, humans, 100%, or 99%. I think humans built the pyramids. OK, and Jimmy, what would your percentage be? I'll go with 99 % as well, but I want to say one thing. I'd be remiss if I didn't bring this up going back to our previous point involving why would anyone want to distort the truth or the narrative involving ancient Egypt?

49:42And there is scientific evidence that dates the Great Sphinx back several thousand years earlier than it was and involves the water erosion around the limestone enclosure. This is something that Zahiawas has rejected. However, anyone could take it upon themselves to look at what water erosion versus wind erosion does to limestone. And it's very, very apparent that the enclosure has water erosion, whereas the chest has wind erosion. And this is something that Zahi has rejected. However, the scientific data on this shows that the last time the Nile Delta region had significant rainfall was like 7 ,000 BC, well over 9 ,000 years ago.

50:20And as we all know, the Great Sphinx was found buried up to its neck in sand for thousands of years. So this is tangible scientific evidence that dates back the Sphinx several thousand years older than the narrative. And I will say one last thing, which is that involving the exploration underneath the PAW, the ground-penetrating radar identified that it is approximately 26 feet by 40 feet wide and approximately 10 meters, or about 32 and a half feet deep. And photos, like as you said, nothing, you found nothing down there. But why were photos not released to the public to show the nothing down there?

50:57Why can't we see what nothing looks like? Okay. Zahi, your quick response. I want to tell you all what has been said that it's a mystery. We have an answer of everything that they said. And everything we release, the photos, you can go to this book. This book has everything that we discovered. We are not hiding anything. But the most important thing that all your doubts and all your questions, we have an answer to it. And Egypt, by the way, is not the great pyramid. Egypt is many other things. You have other pyramids, mummification, you have the value of the kings, you have all this great civilization.

51:34It did not only show the great pyramid only, the great pyramid is one, and it is the national project. The three millions who lived in Egypt participated in making this pyramid for the king to be a god. Then I'm, you know, for the program, I can tell you for hours and answer all your questions, but there's one thing I want to assure all of you, We never hide anything. Everything we discover, we publish it in a scientific article or in a book. And all of this is accessible and people can look at it and read it. And it's not my problem that you don't really read this. But if you want, I can send you these articles.

52:16Take my email. I will be happy to answer all your questions by email. I will be happy to send you photographs. Anything you need, I'll be happy to send it to you. He does seem very approachable to me. So I think you should take him up on that. Finally. Absolutely. Finally, Zahi, I had Graham Hancock on the show after our last interview. I've had him on a couple of times. And he said this about you. Zahi and I get on OK. We've had some misunderstandings in the past. I mean, if I was to go out there, because he's inviting me, would he let you come with me? Yes, I'm sure. It would be quite a fun trip, wouldn't it?

52:50I'm sure he will. What Zahi and I have come to is we've agreed to disagree. There's too much mutual insulting going on in this world where archaeologists insult alternative researchers and alternative researchers insult archaeologists. Zahi and I have agreed that we will not insult each other personally anymore. Our disagreements will be purely on the basis of... Our interpretations are different interpretations of the evidence. And I don't think Zahi is opposed to different interpretations of the evidence, but he is opposed to flimsy, badly thought-out ideas. So I guess the big question to end with, Zahi, is if I get Graham Hancock and Robbie Williams and a little gang of explorers and our own little Indiana Jones trip, maybe some of the guys who've been on the show today, and we all come out, you'll entertain us.

53:42You'll host us, will you? I will host you completely, and I will give you the red carpet. Lovely. And will I get some fantastic Egyptian food? I will take you to one of the restaurants that has the best Egyptian food. Then in that case, I'm sold. And he will be my guest. I will see you in Egypt, and I mean it. We're going to come. Thank you. Zahi, what a pleasure to meet you. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm a big admirer of your work. And thank you to all the guys who joined us and got a chance to ask you questions directly. It was very civilised, the conversation. It's a fascinating subject.

54:12Obviously, there are lots of unanswered questions. But I get the sense from Zahi, if he could answer them, he would. He wants to find out everything like we do. And he's found out more about these pyramids probably than anyone alive. So we should thank him. Thank you. Salute you and hope you carry on. I want to be there when you open up that tomb of Cuckoo and it's there. Thank you. That would be amazing, right? Of course. Yeah. Great to see you. One second. Sorry? Zahi. I just want to say, Zahi, as a conspiracy theorist, I can tell you that when you do finally drill into the Great Pyramid, what the skeptics are going to say is they're going to like, well, they already removed something ahead of time.

54:53You should consider having other people there, someone like myself that can say, hey, look, I was there witnessing when they opened this thing up. I'm totally shameless, but I admire the work. But by the way, there will be a queue, and I'm first in it. So if there's any room for you after me, then good luck. But if that tomb's getting opened, I want to be there. Guys, thank you all very much. I really appreciate it. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

55:30And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent Uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you. You Thank you.