“Iran’s HOLOCAUST” Death Toll Uncovered - How Long Until Trump Declares War?

25:25I have no business, no Israeli has any business in governing Iran or controlling what happens. Our business is defending ourselves. And we, unfortunately, have been at the receiving end of an indirect war of aggression waged by the Islamic Republic of Iran against Israel. There's 600 miles or 1 ,000 kilometers between Iran's western border and Israel's border, yet we find ourselves surrounded by Iranian proxies. Hezbollah in Lebanon, Hamas and Islamic Jihad in Gaza, various Palestinian terror organizations in Judea and Samaria or the West Bank that get Iranian funding. And all of the clues and all of the trails lead back to Iran.

26:07That is where the money comes from. That is where the political guidance comes from. And I think that there is a direct connection here between what the Islamic Republic of Iran has been doing with the little resources they have, instead of investing in the Iranian people, instead of managing their water system, their electrical system, controlling their resources, instead of building an economy, they have been squandering it on the fake goal of expanding the revolution, supporting proxy organizations, and wreaking havoc in the Middle East. And as a consequence, one of the consequences is that the Iranian people are today suffering because of the abysmal mismanagement of national assets at the hands of Khamenei and the IRGC.

26:53Mismanaging water, mismanaging oil and gas is what they have done. It has nothing to do with Israel, nothing to do with anything else. It is corruption and mismanagement that has brought that country down to its knees. But I will tell you one thing. I think there's one American president that hasn't so far gotten the credit that he deserves for actually starting the process that we now see come to a peak, and that is President Obama. In his first term, he was actually the first U.S. president that, under his authority, a real and credible sanctions and economic warfare process started. We all speak about President Trump now.

27:34Will he attack or will he not attack? But I think that if we roll back and look at how this process started, how the weakening of the oppressive Islamic regime really started. It started with effective economic sanctions that the U.S. started under President Obama. And I don't know if his security advisers, people like Ben Rhodes or others who I've heard them shill for the Iranian regime and criticize the current U.S. president, I don't know if they're happy about it. But I definitely... You won't hear me say a lot of positive things about the Obama administration's Mideastern policies, especially not regarding Iran.

28:13This topic, I think, is important. And I think we should give credit to Obama's first presidency for doing just that and setting into motion what we are seeing today.

28:24Piers Morgan:Okay. Back with my panel in a moment. But I want to return to the issue of those casualty figures and bring in an expert, Dr. Payam Okhavan. He's an Iranian-born human rights lawyer, former special adviser on genocide to the prosecutor of the ICC. Well, welcome to you, Dr. Al-Khavan. A lot of conjecture about exactly how many people may have been killed in the regime's counterattacks on the protesters. What is your best estimate for what we may be looking at in terms of casualty numbers? Thank you, Piers. On January 23rd, we received a report based on compilation of clinical and forensic evidence, raw data provided by medical doctors at clinics, at morgues in Iran.

29:16And based on conservative statistical estimates, at least 33 ,000 people have been killed in Iran during a period of just a few days. and the images of the black body bags piling up in morgues at the notorious Kahrizak location in Tehran and elsewhere throughout the country. This is like Iran's Holocaust. And I don't use that word lightly because the Babi Yar massacre, which was the biggest extermination of Jews outside Kiev, involved the killing exactly of 33 ,000 people. It's a coincidence that we have the same number. But even that number is conservative because we have accounts of morgues running out of body bags, of refrigerator trucks taking bodies and dumping them in mass graves, which is what Iran has done in the past.

30:13Also, including in 1988 at the end of the Iran-Iraq war when some 5 ,000 leftist political prisoners were executed. So the number is likely to be significantly more, and the killings haven't stopped. And I was a UN prosecutor during the Yugoslav war. The Srebrenica genocide involved the killing of 8 ,000 Bosnian Muslims during a 20-day period. By comparison, Iran has killed four times the number in half the time. So this is not just the worst mass killing in the contemporary history of Iran. It is one of the worst mass killings in contemporary world history, and it must be treated as such.

30:57Piers Morgan:I've seen you use the phrase that the government, the Iranian regime, is exterminating its own people, and that there is a distinction between that phraseology and the word genocide. Can you just explain from your expert position what the distinction is, albeit, obviously, they're very similar territory, But what is the, from a legal point of view, what is the difference, for example? Thank you, Piers. In 1945, the Nuremberg Charter defined crimes against humanity, which were mass atrocities, one of which was the crime of extermination. Extermination is the systematic killing of civilian population, mass murder, if you like.

31:42Genocide, which was then defined under a convention adopted by the UN in 1948, three years after the Nuremberg Charter, really is aimed at national, racial, religious or national groups. So here you have a situation where the mass murder is not necessarily against a minority. It's against the majority. The Iranian people are the victims of the mass murder, which is why legally extermination is the more appropriate term. And if I may just explain, there are indications that the shoot to kill orders are coming from the supreme leader Khamenei. And there is an interview in which the chief justice, the chief justice of the Supreme Court, Mohseni Egei, is saying that the protesters are combatants.

32:35We're in a state of war, which basically means that they are fair game, that you can have snipers and security forces with Kaloshnikovs just massacring protesters because they are not innocent protesters. They're combatants. And that is really a glimpse of the mentality of this regime and the way it treats its own people.

33:01Piers Morgan:And finally, what is your assessment of the fragility or otherwise of this Iranian regime right now, the Ayatollah? Many people feel it is at a tipping point, which it's never been at before. Others point to a number of uprisings in the past that were quashed, and they carried on in power. What is your sense about where we are with this? Well, Piers, I'm a human rights lawyer, not a political analyst, but I do believe that it is exceedingly difficult for the Islamic Republic to rule indefinitely through mass violence and terror. In the long term, there must be some legitimacy. There must be some viability.

33:45A government has to be able to meet the basic needs of its people. And I don't think the Iranian people will ever forget what has happened to their brothers and sisters in these past days. There is no forgetting. There is no going back. But at the same time, I am very concerned that in order to stay in power, in order to survive, the Islamic Republic will kill as many people as it needs to. And this is because of this fanatical ideology, which believes that you must sacrifice as many lives as are necessary to protect a government which, at least its more fanatical leaders believe, represents God on earth.

34:34So I'm afraid that we may have dark days ahead, which is why it's essential for the world community not to forget the people of Iran and to condemn the mass killings that have been committed in the past days.

34:50Piers Morgan:And before I go to Max Blumenthal again, who's on our panel, who doesn't believe these casualty numbers, what is your message directly to people like him who think these numbers are massively inflated? Well, I simply think that whatever ideologies we have, if we believe in universal human rights, then it shouldn't matter who the victims are, Israeli, Palestinian, Iranian. We're dealing with tens of thousands of young people who are simply protesting because they want a better future. These protests are nothing new. They have occurred throughout the 50-year history of the Islamic Republic. They've always been met with violent repression.

35:35And I think that we need to stand with the people of Iran. We are not foolish enough to think that the foreign powers are not pursuing their own interests, but that does not justify mass murder against the people of Iran.

35:51Piers Morgan:But on that point, Dr. Okavan, the numbers themselves, Max Blumenthal will simply say these have all come from dubious sources. He doesn't believe them. He thinks they're massively inflated. What is your response to that before he says it? Well, I've been a human rights lawyer, UN prosecutor for 35 years. I'm not a propagandist. And I gave you the sources of the numbers. We have people in clinics, in morgues throughout Iran that have compiled statistics. and a statistician can also extrapolate from the raw data a conservative estimate, which in this case is 33 ,000 killed as of January 23rd, and the killings haven't stopped.

36:42And we now have the accounts of bodies that are simply being dumped in mass graves, which means that 33 ,000 would probably be a significant underestimation. And the images coming out of Kahrizak of the black body banks, hundreds and hundreds of black body banks, is just one glimpse of the scale of this mass murder. So I really think that we should not be playing politics with the precious lives of human beings. And we need to think seriously about the people of Iran, not whatever ideology we're playing with. And I must say that it is deeply, deeply insulting when people, for whatever ideological posture that they have, try to underestimate or minimize this horrific nightmare that we are going through.

37:42We are deeply, deeply traumatised people within the country, within the diaspora, and we need to listen to the voices of the people who've lost their children rather than political pundits and their games.

37:58Piers Morgan:Dr. Othgavan, thank you very much indeed for joining me. Thank you. Thank you, Piers. OK, let's go back to the panel. Max Blumenthal, I could hear you laughing in the background there. What was so funny about that? RAY SUAREZ - Accusing us of playing political games when that's exactly what's taking place here on this program. And it's an insult to the intelligence of the viewers that this regime change activist, who is furnishing numbers provided by the Monarchist Network, which is calling for the bombing of Iran, furnishing these numbers, when he calls it a holocaust, when he would never dare call what Israel did in the Gaza Strip, where it wiped Gaza off the map and killed tens of thousands of children.

38:38He would never call that a Holocaust. There would never be this kind of sanction applied to Israel. And that really exposes the double standards here. I provided you with the source of that 30 ,000. It is Amir Parasta, a lobbyist for Reza Pallavi. And I don't care if this guy hides behind the UN or some fake credential. It's obvious what he is doing. He's doing the same thing that we've been subjected to in Libya when we were told that Gaddafi was supplying his soldiers with Viagra, when we were told that Assad violated the red line, when we were told that Saddam Hussein was taking Kuwaiti babies off their incubators, and it turned out the Kuwaiti ambassador paid for that entire PSYOP.

39:17We are being subjected to another regime-change PSYOP in order to distract us from the holocaust of our time that was just committed before our very eyes. And here's one thing that your guest will not acknowledge, which is that the riots that took place in Iran killed hundreds of police officers, hundreds of unarmed guards, civilians. 750 banks were destroyed. 350 mosques were burned. Mosques were burned on camera. Anyone watching this can see footage of mosques being burned. The Abazar Mosque, the Grand Mosque of Sareble were burned by the figures that he says are just peaceful protesters. Hundreds of cops were buried in public funerals and millions of Iranians came out to condemn these Israeli-backed regime change riots.

40:04And I asked, what would the U.S. or U.K. do if rioters were killing hundreds of cops in their cities? What would Donald Trump do whose forces are shooting Americans in their faces in the street? And we're fighting for freedom in the United States. People who Jonathan Conricus has attacked in the UK, Palestine solidarity protesters, are not allowed to say, I support Palestine action or globalize the Intifada. And, Pierce, if the UK is a free country, then you will declare, I support Palestine action and defy your security services right now.

40:43Piers Morgan:Okay, Jonathan, your response to that, finally. Yeah. Can it be said on this program? Can I say that? I support Palestine action. Am I allowed to say that on a program? You can say whatever you want. I don't have to go along with it. Jonathan. Yeah. I hope that the Iranian regime pays you well in whatever currency they have. They don't have a lot of money left, but I hope that they pay you well. Well, I'm not violating sanctions. I'm paid by the grace on the audience. I didn't interrupt you, Max. I didn't interrupt you. You falsely accused me of being paid by Iran when you were a war criminal.

41:18Yeah, because the only logic that I can find, the only logic that I can find for someone like you sitting in the comfort of the West, of a free democratic society with civil rights, rule of law, respectful minorities, religious freedom, political freedom, the only logic that I could find for you advocating for an oppressive Islamist regime and whitewashing their crime is that they must be paying you and it has to be good money. Because they are, what you are doing is legitimizing the execution. You're legitimizing the execution of innocent Iranian civilians that are asking for freedom, that are asking for a better future for themselves and their children.

42:06They're asking not to be oppressed. Women asking, women asking to have their hair uncovered and to walk without a male chaperone. young men wanting a better future without religious oppressors. These are the people that have gone out bravely on Iranian streets and they have marched against the thugs of the Islamist regime and they have been mowed down with machine gun fire. And you are whitewashing their crimes. So I don't know what kind of a conscience you have. I don't know what kind of a conscience you have. I don't know how you can sleep at night even that you're sitting here and apologizing and whitewashing the crimes of an oppressive regime and doing it with a straight face and even getting excited about police officers or mosques being damaged.

42:57I don't hear any excitement when you speak about thousands of Iranians, thousands of Iranians that have been mowed down. But that doesn't seem to bother you.

43:07Piers Morgan:I want to ask Jonathan a question. Jonathan, just quickly. Jonathan, Jonathan, hang on. Hang on, please. Hang on. Jonathan, do you think Donald Trump is... You're a war criminal. Please let me ask him a question. Jonathan, do you think Donald Trump is going to attack Iran? I think he is, yes. OK. Well, we'll see what happens. It's going to be a huge, huge moment if Donald Trump does do that. And I'm sure we can come back and debate it again. But for now, we've got to leave it there. Thank you both very much. Well, I'm now joined by the Iranian-American activist Masi Alinejad, who we speak to from outside a courtroom in New York.

43:46Piers Morgan:Masi, welcome back to Uncensored. Thank you so much, Pierce, for having me. Well, I can't think of many more important or vital people to have on the show at this particular moment. But just for those who aren't aware of what's going on in New York, why are you outside a courtroom there? I have just faced one of my would-be assassins. He was hired by the Islamic Republic to kill me at Fairfield University, where I was scheduled to give a talk. Carl Rivera, he is a convicted murderer. He killed someone here in America. But the Islamic Republic Revolutionary Guards, Farhad Shaqiri, operating from IRGC, who was in prison in America, found him, so ordered him to kill me.

44:37And Farhad Chakir is the mastermind behind another assassination plot against President Trump. You know, when I've seen him in the court, I felt disgusted. Like, it was disgusting to see him just accepting money because of money, being hired by one of the most dangerous terrorist organizations, IRGC, to kill me on U.S. soil. And I told him on his face that the same people that you accepted money are now massacring my people in Iran, up to 40 ,000 people. I told him, and I said the prosecutor in the court as well, I said, I don't have anything else to say to this convicted murderer. I want to talk directly to Ali Khamenei and IRGC who ordered my killing and who is actually ordering the massacre inside Iran.

45:30Piers Morgan:And what is your message to the Supreme Leader? To be honest, I don't have a message for him. I want the U.S. government to take action against him. This is what I said here. And I really believe this is the message of millions of people inside Iran peers. I have seen my would-be assassin in front of my eyes in my garden with AK-47. If it was not the U.S. law enforcement protecting me, I could have been dead. Of course, I want the same protection for unarmed Iranians right now. That's why I don't have any message to a killer who literally ordering massacre. He doesn't understand the language of diplomacy.

46:13He doesn't understand, but his language to talk to me and Iranians are AK-47, guns and bullets, military weapons, raping women. They storm into hospitals right now that I'm talking to you, finishing up the wounded one and also arresting the doctors and nurses who help the wounded one and making sure that they can kill everyone who speak up. That's why they don't understand my language, and I don't have any message for Ali Khamenei. Ali Khamenei behaves like ISIS. To me and millions of Iranians, to me and millions of people in Syria, in Iraq, in the Middle East, even in Palestine, who believe that Ali Khamenei is the greatest sponsor of Hamas, and Hamas is the one ruining the life of innocent Palestinians, all of us in the Middle East, we need to see that Ali Khamenei being removed, because he is the root because of all the chaos, mayhem, and endless war taken in the region, not just in the region.

47:18Maduro was not alone. Ali Khamenei invaded, and his revolutionary guards and Hezbollah, they invaded Venezuela. Ali Khamenei is the one sending a drone to kill innocent Ukrainians. So basically, when they don't understand the language of diplomacy, when their language is military weapons, then they should be removed. They should be taking out the U.S. government and the leaders of G7, other free world. When I ask them to take actions, military, targeted military action against the killers, because I believe that this is not just a charity thing to the people of Iran. It's their duty to stop massacre and to stop the terrorist regime in Iran.

48:06Piers Morgan:President Trump has put out a statement today threatening the Iranian regime and the Ayatollah with war, effectively. He said he's sending the Armada, as he put it over there, the one that was sent to Venezuela when Maduro was taken out. What would you like to see happen here? Would you like to see the United States militarily attack Iran? You know, when you say Iran, it breaks my heart. Iran is my beloved country. Iran is a country that we love it. I have family there. Iran is being invaded by Islamic Republic. So let's make it very clear. I don't want Iran and Iranians to be killed or—I don't want any bomb to Iranians.

48:53And that's what the West got it wrong. When I say targeted military action, some in the West immediately jump into Iraq or Libya or Afghanistan. But this is not the full history and not the honest one. We have different examples. Let me just give it to you. In Gambia, when dictator refused to step down from power after losing an election, what helped the people in Gambia to have a transition from dictatorship to democracy. Targeted, calculated military action. In Bosnia, the world waited too long until the massacre was unfolded in the country. And then military targeted action stopped the massacre.

49:46Maybe Peace was not perfect, but that stopped the massacre. In Kosovo, the same. Only diplomatic pressure and also targeted military action stopped humanitarian catastrophe. This is the same in Iran. We don't want the U.S. government, the U.S. tanks or soldiers walking in the street. We're not talking about chaos or occupation. We're not talking about intervention. We're talking about targeted, calculated action against the terrorists that turn their military weapons into an instrument of mass killings and massacre. That's not me saying that. Iranians, I'm in touch with them every day, Pierce.

50:38I'm talking to them. They say that there's only one option. Otherwise, the regime in Iran will turn the mass arrest to mass executions. And finally, Massey, you have astounding courage, a very heroic figure to many millions of Iranians.

51:00Piers Morgan:And you keep coming out, talking out publicly, even in front of a courtroom where somebody is in there right now who was trying to murder you. And I salute you for that courage. Do you believe, as some people do, increasing number do, that the Iranian regime and the supreme leader, the Ayatollah, that they are on the verge of potentially being toppled? Or do you fear it's just another uprising that they have violently quashed and that it will come to nothing? That's a very good question. But let me let me add something to your beautiful words to me myself. I am pleased that you call me a brave or courageous woman.

51:47But if you see that I am brave here in America, then see millions of unarmed women and men shoulder to shoulder. They are my heroes. They are the heroes of millions of people across the globe. Because with empty hand, they're not just fighting for Iran. They're not just trying to free Iran. They're protecting the U.S. national security, the U.S. security as well, the global security. Their terrorists, the Iranian regime's terrorists are walking freely in your country, in the U.K. They are braver than the U.K. prime minister. Believe me, because the U.K. prime minister, President Macron, leaders of G7, they're sitting on their sofa and saying that we're watching the situation.

52:33They condemn that. They say, we stand with the people of Iran. Enough of standing with the people of Iran. We don't want you to stand with us. We want you to sit down, all of you, to make concrete decisions to end terrorism. That's what we want. So back to your question. This is the Berlin Wall moment for Iranians. But let's be honest. When East Germany managed to bring the wall of dictators down, they were not alone. The whole world were united. The whole world. So that time, America took the lead. I'm not saying that President Trump is another President Reagan. Whether you like Trump or not, but he knows the language of dictators right now.

53:18Some people in the West are busy criticizing Trump for saying that America is locked and loaded to target Ali Khamenei and his gang of killers. And some are actually busy to criticize him for not taking actions. They're lost. Left and liberal are sympathizing with the Islamic Republic. They're actually mocking us. They're mocking us. They're calling that this is an external regime change being imposed to Iranians by President Trump and Netanyahu. We have agency. Iranians took to the streets six times after the Islamic revolution occupied Iran. Six times. And they made it clear they want to change this regime.

54:00This is an insult to a nation and their agency. So, when the war—I mean, I'm talking about left and liberal. They're sympathizing by Hamas, with Hezbollah, with Houthi, with the Islamic Republic, Mullahs. And they keep quiet. All of them. All of them. Where is Michelle Obama? Where is Barack Obama? Where is Oprah, Hillary Clinton, all those celebrities, AOC, Ilhan Omar. But at the same time, MAGA people make America great. They say that it's all about America, America first. And I want to tell them, for the Ayatollahs, America is first, too. The first target to destruction, the first target that they want to destroy is America.

54:41When they say death to America, they mean it. So my people are sacrificing their life to protect global security, to protect America, to protect the UK from one of the most dangerous cancers, which is called the Islamic Republic. So your question, are they going to win with empty hands? Let's be very honest. We need to get the leaders of G7 to be as brave as Iranians and help us to end this regime. We need the US government to stick with its promises to end this regime. Otherwise, look, I have no fear. My people have no fear. They say goodbye to their parents and they go to the street. I don't know even what happens to my brother and my family when I talk to you.

55:23I have seen my would-be assassin three times in here, in America. But I'm not scared. But this is a humiliation to the free world. This is scary that how the regime in Iran challenging U.S. national security three times, challenging the UK government on the UK soil many times, and still you allowing the Islamic Republic diplomats and their relatives, the children of the Ayatollahs, who chant death to America, death to Israel, death to the whole world, walking freely in America, in the UK, in everywhere. So be brave, as brave as the people of Iran. Kick out the Islamic Republic Ayatollahs, the Revolutionary Guards members, their diplomats shut down the embassy and helped the people of Iran to get rid of Islamic Republic.

56:12That's how we can say, yes, this is the end of the regime. Sooner or later, we will get rid of the Islamic Republic, but the history will judge Prime Minister of the UK, President Macron, German Chancellor, all the G7 leaders who still hesitate to designate revolutionary gods as a terrorist organisation. Shame on them.

56:33Piers Morgan:Masih Al-Najad, it's always very powerful to talk to you, and never more so than right now. Thank you very much for taking the time to come back on Uncensored. Thank you so much for having me and giving voice to millions of Iranians right now who are facing massacre, Piers Morgon. Thank you so much. Well, you're the one giving them the voice, and it's a powerful voice, and I salute your courage. I really do. Best of luck to you. Promise me you're not going to give the platform to Marandi and other... They have enough platform inside Iran. They don't deserve to enjoy the privilege of freedom of speech when they put the whole country in absolute darkness.

57:14Digital blackout. Kick them out. Believe me. If you say that this is freedom of speech, we want to hear what they say, we want to learn what they believe, but you don't need to because we know that.

57:26Piers Morgan:No, I do think, Professor... And we know what... I do think Miranda's... Yeah, I think Miranda's a propagandist for the regime. I can't imagine I'll be having him back any time soon. Kick him out! My heart aches when I see that this fucking killer has come to your show. Yeah, he just comes on on lies. Thank you. I know. It's great to talk to you. I really do mean it when I say best of luck to you. Your life's always in danger. It's incredibly courageous what you do, but it's so important too. So I really wish you all the very best and come back on soon.

58:24Piers Morgan:you.