“It’s ALL Bull***!” EXCLUSIVE: Piers Morgan To SUE Earl Spencer Over Diana Book

22:12Piers Morgan:Is he two years out of date with that? We'll see. I mean, I think that once people gorge over the whole book, Look, I won't be the only one he's done this to. Yeah, well, we know from City there's at least two inaccuracies. Where are the fact-checkers? Yeah. Right? When you do books, you get fact-checked. Well, where are the fact-checkers? Right? A simple thing that can be Googled in two seconds. He's going to have serious questions to answer. He is. Well, we will be discussing it more on Thursday on the Royals Uncensored. Well, it's going to be a stupendous episode. Everyone's watching your channel.

22:41Piers Morgan:Congratulations. They're certainly giving us plenty to talk about. They are. Well, you'll have lots to talk about on the next episode of Royals Uncensored. that it shops on Thursday evening. Yeah, everyone's watching a channel, and this is why, because there's just so much to talk about. Well, we launched it at the right time, Piers. We're not short of material, that's for sure. But this is a fascinating story. I don't think any of us saw this coming. The royals didn't see it coming. But yet again at the centre of it all now is Discord, another rift, and that Spencer royal family war being played out three decades later, just as powerful as before.

23:13Piers Morgan:And you know what? I think in the end it will be Earl Spencer's reputation that suffers more than King Charles's. I would put money on it. Just from the anecdotal... My mother's a good litmus test for these things. She's the voice of Middle England. She's furious about this and the timing and the motivation. And I haven't even told her about what she's done about me yet. Oh, my gosh, she'll be sighting feathers, Piers. I can't even imagine. I may not even tell her. I'm looking forward to having a place. She might be watching this. She might be having my mother finds out. But anyway, great to see you all and best of luck with the show on Thursday.

23:48Piers Morgan:Well, let's get a view now from the United States. Joining me now is Dana Kennedy, senior reporter at the Daily Mail US. Dana, welcome to Uncensored. Thank you, Piers. Well, look. This episode is brought to you by Welch's Fruit Snacks. Back to school season can be tough on parents. But choosing a snack you and your kids can both get behind doesn't have to be. Stock up on Welch's Fruit Snacks, made with whole fruit. and now made with no artificial dyes. It's a snack kids already love and one you can feel good about giving them. Go back to school with Welch's Fruit Snacks, now made with no artificial dyes.

24:27Piers Morgan:First of all, congratulations to the male on a riveting scoop. I was absolutely engrossed with it for the week that you guys were setting the agenda with all this. But, you know, it's interesting. Now that we actually get to read the book, people like me who are in it of being able to study what's been written and compare it with actual facts. And immediately, in my case, it's come up with the fact that the story about me is completely invented. I wasn't even at the Mirror when he accuses me of doing something which led to the Mirror paying Diana a million pounds. I mean, you know, how do you feel about his credibility in all this?

25:08Well, you know, having heard you run through all that, you have a lot of credibility against Earl Spencer because you lay out the facts. It's very clear he has lied about something very specific. But for someone like me, I am not my Daily Mail colleagues in London that know this story backwards and forwards. I'm just an American in New York and we have a very different perspective. And even hearing you guys talk about this for a moment, you have to sit back as an American and think, who are these people again? The royals, you know, what do they do? Do they really form policy? You people do take them very seriously.

25:39We, of course, don't. And when I first heard about this, my gut reaction, Piers, was I didn't believe Earl Spencer. And why I'm old enough to remember the 90s when Prince Charles was viewed as a cad for the whole triangle with him and Camilla and Diana. And my thought was everybody knew back then what had gone down. I mean, Diana saying on TV that incredible line that a Hollywood script writer couldn't make up saying there were three of us in that marriage. For him, Diana's death really did mean in a horrible way that it was going to be a lot easier for him to move forward with Camilla. So you'd think that he would be overly lovely and overly nice and wouldn't say anything to sort of augment his CAD energy.

26:26That's the first thing that came to my mind, and I am not the Royals expert like you and my Daily Mail colleagues in London.

26:33Piers Morgan:You know, it's interesting, because King Charles had just been to the United States, obviously, on what was a very successful trip. You know, he made a great speech to Congress. He made a great speech at the big reception that Donald Trump threw for him, and it was deemed a huge success. How are Americans reacting to all this? Are they suddenly turning on King Charles because L. Spencer tells them to, or is it a different kind of vibe, do you think? I think, Piers, that King Charles is not of great interest to most Americans. Maybe people 60 and 70 and above. We all, at least I do, we are focused on, if we're focused on the royals at all, we're focused on Prince William and Kate and Meghan and Harry.

27:16Those are what people, you forget how short memories are, you know. That's who I think we're focused on. Prince Charles does not have charisma. He may now have sort of reinvented himself as a kindly, respectable elder statesman, but he's got no juice, Piers. I mean, really, I don't think people are, you know, out by the water cooler talking about Prince Charles, sorry to say.

27:37Piers Morgan:Well, you've even demoted him because obviously he's King Charles now. That's right. Well, I'm an American. I don't have it all in my mind at the same time. He is King Charles. But, Piers, I just have to ask you one thing. When you're talking about him, you certainly sound very pro-King Charles, and I get it. But wasn't he kind of not the greatest guy? Wasn't he an awfully cold fish with poor Diana? You know, telling her on his wedding night? What I honestly felt about it was I think he was a lot older than she was. He was told basically he had to marry her. He had to marry a virgin. I mean, can you imagine in modern day and age that this was the rule?

28:14Did he really, though? Did he really have to marry a virgin?

28:18Piers Morgan:That was kind of the royal rules of engagement at the time, right? So you've got a guy in his 30s marrying a 19-year-old young woman. They were clearly, I don't think, that well suited, although Diana was always keen to tell people. I remember when Charles took part in an authorised biography by a guy called Jonathan Dimbleby about his life, and one of the bombshell revelations was that he said, Dimbleby, that Charles made it clear he was never really in love with Diana. and I got a call from somebody close to Diana saying, that's a lie, he was, and you have pictures in your safe. I was at the News of the World at the time, his editor.

28:58Piers Morgan:You have pictures in your safe that were suppressed at the time of them on a second honeymoon where Charles is throwing Diana all over the place in the ocean, which show how much in love they were. And we went and found the pictures and we were told you can publish them now. We published them and under the headline, the pictures that prove Charles did love Diana. And so I felt that she certainly believed he did. And I think that the blowback Charles got to that intimation in the Dimbleby book surprised him and he then clarified things a different way. But ultimately, I think the truth is, he was always in love with Camilla Parker Bowles and he's remained in love with Camilla Parker Bowles.

29:37Piers Morgan:And, you know, by royal standards, actually being in love with one woman but having to maybe marry somebody else and then that doesn't work and then you end up with the woman you were always in love with. He's not the greatest philanderer in the history of monarchs of this country, I can tell you that, for nothing. And I do believe that this was the great love of his life and it was sad for Diana, but Diana was no angel. She had a string of affairs with all sorts of people as well. I think they were just ill-suited. And Diana was a mercurial, wonderful, very complex person. I knew her by the end very well.

30:12Piers Morgan:I had lunch with her and William at the palace. She would call me and we'd go over stories together and things like that. She was complicated. But I never felt that she and Charles were a good match. But he and Camilla are a great match, and they've proven that. So, you know, is he a good man? Would he probably say that his own behaviour probably wasn't exemplary in the marital department? But I do think, essentially, he's a good man. And Camilla, I know very well. She comes from the village next to mine, down in East Sussex. We've always got on very well. I've always liked her. But I like Diana too.

30:41Piers Morgan:They're just incredibly different people. And if you ask me who was Charles better suited to, absolutely, it was Camilla. All along. Always was, always will be. They're a great love story, even if it's an imperfect journey to get there.

30:58My thought, though, is, Piers, that the long arm of Diana, the ghost of Princess Past, is still somewhat there. I heard you talking earlier about whether or not she would like this. I don't know if she would have, But it's just there seems to always be a Diana or a Meghan or an Earl Spencer in the royal family that, for lack of a better phrase, keeps it interesting. It's like one of the world's longest reality shows. And they certainly have a good script writer.

31:28Piers Morgan:Well, you know what? One thing's for sure. This is going to be a story that rolls and rolls and rolls. It's like a Shakespeare play, which comes in various acts. But Dana Kennedy, thank you very much for joining me. Thanks, Fierce. Well, I'm joined in the studio by Tom Bauer. He's a royal biographer and journalist. I'm by Tessa Dunlop, historian and commentator. A.M. Wilson was supposed to be here too to make the case for El Spencer, but changed his mind while watching the first part of the show. So that's the chair he would have sat in. I'm not entirely sure what's gone on there with A.M. Wilson.

31:59Piers Morgan:But anyway, it would have been nice to have chatted to him. Maybe he just felt he couldn't defend the indefensible. I don't know. And we'll find out afterwards. Welcome to both of you. Tom, you're an author of great repute and highly successful. I did a little check, as you may have uncovered, you know, seen earlier. The one entry about me is completely wrong, inaccurate, a lie, defamatory, actually, accusing me of a grotesque invasion of Diana's privacy for which we had to pay a million pounds. It had nothing to do with me at all. So I'm instructing solicitors to get in touch with Penguin to get them to take this out of the book and to give damages to the King's Trust, which I thought would be an appropriate way to resolve things, assuming they agree to take it out.

32:47Piers Morgan:It's a prima facie case because you can just Google it. In light of what I've uncovered purely about me, what does that say about the credibility and accuracy of the rest of the book? Well, I'm afraid I don't think it's credible, the bits we've heard, because we haven't read the book yet. But, I mean, I'm sad that Spencer, who actually has written a couple of very good history books, should have fallen into this sort of money-grabbing, salacious rubbish. I mean, even to mention the story about Fawcett was just ridiculous because we all know that the Smith who gave Diana the story, the valet's story, was in the Priory.

33:24He was ill. And we know that the idea of Charles lying in bed with Fawcett is just ludicrous.

33:30Piers Morgan:This is Michael Fawcett who was his valet, who's believed to be who Charles Spencer was talking about. And that isn't the reason that Diana did the divorce. She did the divorce because it was ordered to by the Queen after she did the panorama interview. Right. So there's that. But I think much more important I can contribute is this. When I wrote my book about Charles House eight years ago, I spoke to three people who were at Balmoral at the time. Two of them were still alive. The third one was Robert Fellows, the Queen's private secretary. All three told me that... Who was married to... Jane Fence's sister.

34:01And the important thing is this. Firstly, all three, two of them and Leibner, said that Charles was absolutely smitten with grief that weekend. But most important of all was Robert Fellows, who reinforced that scenario of grief. But the most interesting thing we can challenge Spencer with now is, he says that after he got the giddy-elated quote from Charles, he talked to his family and friends. Now, one of them would have been definitely Jane Fellows, who was in Balmoral at the time. I challenge Jane Fellows now to send a letter to the Times saying that what my brother said was true, because if anyone...

34:43Piers Morgan:She's never spoken out. She has never spoken, but now is the challenge. The veracity of Charles Spencer, and this amazingly damaging story, is whether he did tell Jane Spencer that night about what Charles had said to him, because she clearly was the person he was talking to in Balmoral. Tessa, welcome back to Uncensored. Thank you. We're normally locking horns about the Sussexes, but we can part them for a bit. They come into this a little bit. Where do you sit with this, the battle of the two Charleses? Just very quickly, lovely to sit next to you, Tom, and I was looking forward to potentially agreeing with you, but I've been surrounded by so many hypocritical men talking about Diana, the iconic woman of the late 20th century.

35:25Did you just accuse somebody of writing money grabbing salacious rubbish? I'm just going to park that there because I have a couple of your books with Meghan on the front cover at home. Anyway, moving now, if I may, on to the matter at hand, Charles Spencer. I have an issue with absolutely every aspect of this sorry saga. I have an issue with Charles Spencer detonating, raking over past stories and pain and monetising it to pay for his extraordinarily expensive private life. I have an issue with the comment, the rebuttal, the word salad verbose rebuttal that the king authorised at great speed and I think will live to repent.

36:04And I have a real issue with the way in which the BBC failed to sufficiently challenge Spencer. They were invited onto his turf. Basically, it was a home match for the Earl. By the way, he does use his title. I have that in good authority. I've been to Naysby Church where his title is used to try and promote this battlefield. So, you know, there's a sort of tissue of sort of fabrications. But I felt that it was deeply sad that our public broadcaster didn't feel more emboldened and able to really challenge him about the motivations behind this.

36:35Piers Morgan:Well, you know what? I watched it, the Laura Koensberg interview, and other than the apparent hypocrisy, this is a guy who's been railing against the BBC for the last few years and then gives them the scoop in the same way that, you know, he used to rail against the mail and then gave them the scoop. There's a lot of hypocrisy there. but parking that to one side. I thought Laura Coonsby did an OK job, actually. I thought that she didn't, you know, smash him over the head with a hammer, but didn't really need to. She teased stuff out of him, which we can now examine forensically and work out whether we believe it.

37:07Piers Morgan:And the problem that I have now, having seen what he wrote about me and knowing it's 100 % wrong, is I find it very hard to believe him when he says down the barrel of the camera of the BBC, well, you must believe me because it's the truth. Yes, but I think that's where I disagree with you because I thought it was a fawning interview. I thought if you'd been doing the interview, you'd have been far more aggressive, far more demanding. I mean, the valet story is outrageous. The story about the Gidley elated is just nonsense. Well, the idea that he behaved like a lottery winner. Well, she didn't challenge him.

37:38But also, hang on a minute. They were sitting in a gigantic drawing room, all his wealth surrounding him. He leapfrogs his three sisters to Claymix through primogenita. and he has the gall to say he doesn't believe in flummery or titles. I mean, I'm sorry. And she let it go. It was extraordinary. He then says he prefers the Norwegian monarchy. Oh, last time I checked, his fourth wife was Norwegian. I mean, the whole thing just stank. It was obscene. I couldn't believe it was considered... What do you think?

38:03Piers Morgan:I mean, is it just a dish revenge served cold here? Well, I think... To make money? Well, clearly, he's going to make a fortune, he hopes, and he will get a lot of them. He'll get millions out of it. But I think as well, the Spencers and the Windsors have always been at war. But I think it's also guilt-feeling by Spencer. After all, Diana would be alive today if he'd agreed, at her request, that she could spend the week with her boys at Althorpe. He said no because he'd be bothered by the paparazzi. So she had to go off with Vayed. And Paul Burrell, her valet, had a wonderful line there that he wouldn't have Diana in his house when she was alive, but charges£10 for everyone to visit her when she's dead.

38:42And that's the whole thing about it. And he's the person who facilitated the Panorama interview, which in the end triggered, as he says, this disaster in her life.

38:51Piers Morgan:And what do you say to those like Tessa, who sneer at people like you, who write books about the Royals and so on? They say, well, look, we've all gorged as a media off the entrails of the royal family, and Diana in particular, for decades. Why shouldn't he, as a historian, have his say, and as he puts it, set the record state in his own swan song and leave it there? Well, it could if it was accurate. Right. But that's the problem. And I take issue with this sort of muckraking. The point is the Sussexes meant nothing until they went to America, went on to opera, went on to Netflix, went on to Apple TV, gave endless interviews damaging Britain and the royal family.

39:30It's not true that they meant nothing. You can't be somebody who gorges on royal stories. Well, you've had most of the floor. But anyway, continue. Thank you. Let me start again. You can edit it out. What I find objectionable is about this sort of muckraking is the Sussexes' advanced arguments, which were patently untrue, they were lying about the royal family, about Britain, did huge damage, as Spencer has done now. And my job was to show the truth about Meghan and the truth about Harry and that they really...

40:01Piers Morgan:But he would use that argument back, wouldn't he? He would say, there have been so many lies printed about my sister. But what lies? What lies? Well, he would just say he's put in the record straight. Well, I haven't read the whole book. Exactly, but that's what's so interesting. The male hasn't identified a lie expressed in the media. That he's correcting. That he's correcting. Of course it's not. He is the man who's got the inventions. And the point about all this is that it's hugely damaging to the royal family. Oh, but the royal family have made this much worse. They've made this much worse by releasing that ridiculous statement.

40:34But I don't agree.

40:34Piers Morgan:I thought it was a good thing to do. I do as well. No, I'm sorry. Laura Klunsberg sat there and weaponised the king's words. Very long. Cloud reason, colour memory. It wasn't that long. It was one paragraph. It was ridiculous. Compared to the, recollections may vary, a brush off, which was all argument, I think all three of us would agree, he just deserved a brush off. What it did was it gave credence to Charles Spencer's words. And then you had the king versus... I don't agree. But it happened on television last night. They both slugged it out against each other. He said, no, he said, I'm right, no, I'm right.

41:07It was demeaning to the institution.

41:09Piers Morgan:Charles hasn't said any of that. He simply said... I'm sorry, he did. He said when people are grief-stricken, memories can get muddled. So basically... And by the way, he's right, he's right. He effectively said Charles Spencer is lying. I agree with Laura Klunsberg that, and she weaponised those words, and what you had was... Well, we know... It became reduced down to Charles Spencer's left. We now know purely from what he's written about me that he's telling lies in the book. I mean, period. That's a typo. It's not a typo. It's a long attack on me based on an entirely false premise. You ask for it sometimes, Peter.

41:41It's not a typo. I mean, you've been a mess with Charles Spencer's nephew.

41:44Piers Morgan:I asked for a lie to be published? No, you didn't ask for it. In a book that was going to sell millions? As someone who also writes books but doesn't write muckraking rubbish, sometimes you get timelines a little bit muddled in a first edition. I'm not overly surprised. You launch attacks on individuals based on entirely false information. You think that's acceptable? I don't think, you know, that's between you and Charles Spencer. Not really. He's published it in a book. He's going to sell millions of copies. I don't think that necessarily is grist to the mill that everything he said is a lie.

42:11My issue is the immorality of weaponising it. He pledged in that Westminster Abbey service that turned him into a hero in that hour, the Periclean oration, he'd been prepped for all his life in his public schools. He pledged, and I wrote it down, that he would continue the imaginative way in which Diana steered her two exceptional young men and he also pledged to respect the heritage into which they had been born. He was not challenged with those words yesterday. He was not asked how he thought. He is serving to help them in the way that he promised to by throwing all this tawdry story into the public domain.

42:48It cleaves the two boys in two separate directions. William has nowhere to go.

42:51Piers Morgan:What's funny, though, is I listen to you being so indignant about this and I'm thinking, where was this sentiment when Meghan and Harry were tossing their garbage at the royal family. It was very different. Oh, was it? Yeah, very different. Oh, was it? Charles is... I don't think so. I'm so sorry. Earl Spencer, with the enormous inheritance, his staggering wealth, he reigns supreme over middle England. You mean like Harry's, you mean? No, but he... Harry got 15 million, was it? Effectively his own monarch. Harry actually clearly felt very burnt within the system. and he was effectively a whistleblower.

43:29So if Harry and Meghan... He was younger, he was more naive.

43:31Piers Morgan:Right, so all the stuff about being a bunch of callous racists who wouldn't let Meghan have any treatment for mental health issues, none of which has ever been substantiated, none of which then appeared in Harry's book because it was all bullshit. So none of that bothers you. That's all... You've defended that at this desk very vociferously and now you say that Earl Spencer doing it is apparently beyond the pale because of the damage it does to the royal family. What's interesting is... To which I say, methinks the lady may be a bit of a hypocrite. Tell me, why didn't the king issue one of his verbose rebuttals in the wake of the publication of Spare?

44:06He didn't.

44:08Piers Morgan:Why did he need to? I rest my case, because actually it wasn't really vindictive in the way that Charles Spencer's look is. I'll tell you why, because I can't imagine... I know this for a fact, that the king, when he was told that it was said that he had reacted like a lottery winner, found it so grotesquely offensive. I rest my case. Well, no. So they're not comparable. Well, they are comparable. You're indignant about one, but you support the other. Tom, who's going to win out of all this? My gut feeling from public reaction that I've had to this, both on social media and walking around, I think the public are on King Charles' side here.

44:45I think both are going to lose. I think the king's losing, the monarchy's in trouble, Meghan and Harry are going to cause enormous trouble at some stage There's the Andrew issue Spencer has been an enormous problem The monarchy is once more damaged And I don't Sorry And I really don't think anyone cares about Spencer I think Spencer is irrelevant And I think that whether he His reputation suffers or not Four times married He talks about caring for the two boys His own daughters wouldn't have him at their wedding because he's such a bad father. So don't let...

45:23Piers Morgan:No, I think I'm afraid I see right through all this. In answer to your question, he's a moral toad, I think, Charles Spencer, and that's why I have no truck with what he's done. Whereas I felt Harry and Meghan actually felt trapped in the institution and I don't think she was treated... I think they're a pair of moral little toads. I don't think you can compare the two. I just did. They're moral toads. Well, I'm explaining to you why I think they're very different. Anyway, thank you both very much. I appreciate it. This episode is brought to you by Welch's Fruit Snacks. Back to school season can be tough on parents, but choosing a snack you and your kids can both get behind doesn't have to be.

46:00Stock up on Welch's Fruit Snacks, made with whole fruit, and now made with no artificial dyes. It's a snack kids already love, and one you can feel good about giving them. Go back to school with Welch's Fruit Snacks, now made with no artificial dyes.

46:17Piers Morgan:Five major US networks released an extremely rare joint statement today united against the president's decision to ban specific media outlets from the White House. ABC, CBS, CNN, NBC and Fox News have united against Trump's total ban on reporters from CNN, MSNOW and Politico at the White House. The president accuses them of repeatedly publishing fake news, fiction and lies, all three outlets, so they will sue the administration, calling the move unprecedented and unconstitutional. My next guest knows a thing or two about the US media. Bill O 'Reilly is a broadcasting titan. He's also written a new book, Confronting America, What Has to Change?

46:54Piers Morgan:And he joins me now. Bill, welcome back to Uncensored. Thanks for having me, Piers. You're a former Fox News media titan, which is relevant to this, because I was very struck by the fact that Fox News were the ones who appeared to be leading the response to this on behalf of other networks racing to defend their colleagues and in a pretty unprecedented move saying, we will not do any more pool coverage until this is resolved. What did you make of it? Well, the leader of the Washington White House press corps is a Fox correspondent. But when the story broke, Fox didn't really cover it. So I'm confused.

47:40I think people should cover the news. So in confronting America, what has to change? I have a fake news chapter. So the discussion between you and me has to begin with one fact or we can't have a discussion that in the second term of Donald Trump, the corporate media here has done everything it could do to harm him and to promote the Democratic Party. Would you agree with that?

48:12Piers Morgan:Well, I would argue that it's always worked both ways. But it's not to this extent. Let me give you an example. Last week, there was very good economic news. It's the lowest rate of poverty for American households in history. And each household now, the accumed wealth, has broken a record as well. That's a pretty big story, would you not say? Yeah, but it comes at the same time as things like gas prices are rocketing as a result of the Iran war. So people are saying, how many times have we heard that? Yeah, but it's hard to be. How many times have we heard? Yeah, but it's hard to be told, hey, everything's rosy in the economic garden.

48:53Piers Morgan:If you yourself are really struggling as millions of Americans are because of things like gas prices. Well, I managed to do it. OK, I managed to report both stories. that individuals are suffering because of high gas prices in the USA, yet the macroeconomic picture is fairly strong. It wasn't really tough, Pierce. I mean, I wrote that in about 30 seconds. So MSNBC, CNN, and Politico didn't mention the story at all. That's a suppression of the news. This is where the story gets very interesting. So if you go to Bill O 'Reilly dot com, I wrote a column and say Donald Trump is likely to lose in federal court by banishing certain news agencies.

49:45Yeah, it's likely to happen. The Associated Press is banished right now. And that's been going on for close to a year. The court may get to it, may not, but there's no urgency there. So the Associated Press got booted. Now, these three agencies are booted as well. But the Constitution is clear that the powers of the press cannot be abridged. So in the legalism, the president will probably lose. He doesn't care. He wants to expose these agencies as fake news corrupt. And they are. So then the question becomes, does the First Amendment in the U.S. Constitution protect the suppression of news? Like in Russia, Putin's never going to allow anything to be printed or even spoken that makes Putin look bad.

50:47Do we have the same system here? Because we certainly are suppressing the news. No doubt about it.

50:57Piers Morgan:Yeah, but that's entirely down to each individual news organization's right to report any news they see fit. If you want to run them down, I'll run them down for you. Because it's like 80 % to 20 % that are anti-Trump and working with the Democratic Party. But I remember, Bill, I remember when Obama was president. He waged an almost relentless campaign against freedom of the press. He was very draconian against journalists. He tried to jail journalists and he was always doing stuff I felt to infringe on rights to free speech and rights to freedom of the press. And he also, on one occasion, his administration barred a Fox News journalist and barred Fox News from attending one thing that they were putting on for the media.

51:48Piers Morgan:And again, what happened there, were the other networks got together, as they have done here, and said, no, the Fox News have to be allowed back in. And they were. The decision got reversed. I'm sure we'll see the same here. Trump will, I think, reverse this, having made his point, because he'll want to be on TV. I'm not so sure about that. I'm not so sure about that. No, Obama was very prickly when it came to criticism of him. I had a very good relationship with President Obama. I interviewed him three times and I get him on the phone because I was fair to him. I wasn't looking to hammer him.

52:23I was looking to report what he was doing and why I was doing it. Same thing way I cover Trump the same way. So I'm critical of Trump when he does stuff that I don't understand or that I don't think is good for the American people. But I'm not going out there every day and trying to hurt him. And I don't think the founding fathers wanted that. I don't think they wanted that kind of a scenario. Let me give you another example. Maybe you could advise me. I'm putting Pierce Morgan up as my advisor. So you know that I'm the best-selling nonfiction author in the world. You know that, okay? And wherever I go on television in the colonies, the ratings go up.

53:08and substantially up. Okay. I don't know why. Maybe it's my hair. I don't know. Um, I can't get booked and either can Victor Davis Hanson, brilliant man, on any network show at all to promote my book confronting America, which should change what has to change. I can't get booked. Either can Davis Hanson, either can any conservative author Now, I'm not a conservative, but that's the soup can they put me in. OK, so that's a suppression again. And now that's what the Supreme Court, because I think Trump's going to take this to the limit to quote the Eagles. I think he's going to do that to just give his adversaries in the media a hard time.

54:00Piers Morgan:I don't think he will, because I think he'll miss the live TV coverage. He relies on that. It's his oxygen. When he sees CNN having to devote, you know, half an hour, an hour to him talking live, if they're not going to be doing that until this gets resolved in a way that they deem fair and they're backed even by Fox News, then Trump at some point is going to have to cave, isn't it? Well, Fox News will cover Trump. So will Newsmax. So will a number of other agencies. I'll certainly cover him. So I don't know if he's going to get deep six by the entire media. But I'm sympathetic to people in my profession who want to protect the freedom of expression from the government.

54:53because if you don't have that, then King George comes back.

54:57Piers Morgan:Right, which may not be a bad idea. And he just, well, I don't know about that. Not him, but a new king. I don't want Putin telling me my news every day. I don't want the mullers telling me my news. But it has come to such a crisis point in America, the dishonesty. And again, I have a whole chapter in confronting America. just listing all of the things that the corporate media has done to ally itself with the Democratic Party. They're simpatico, Piers. That powerful American news agency are now trying to get the Democrats elected. That's not what Benjamin Franklin and James Madison and Thomas Jefferson wanted.

55:48Piers Morgan:Yeah, listen, I don't disagree. I think the mainstream media in America is ridiculously skewed to the liberal world, to Democrats. I always joke. It's a bit like in England. You can shoot a harpoon around the BBC newsroom and you wouldn't hit a conservative voter. It's just a fact. I know them all. They're all to the left. I know, and so do I. So between the UK and the United States, you have this monolith of liberal thought and no counter. See, I don't mind a liberal thought. That doesn't bother me. But put me on so I can now challenge it. Is that too much to ask? Apparently it is. You mentioned King George III.

56:37Piers Morgan:and I don't think anybody wants him back, least of all the British. But there's a lot of royal scandal blowing up again now, Bill. You've covered a lot of this over the years. I don't know with quite how much personal enthusiasm, but we've got the two stories of Meghan and Harry coming back to the UK and going down, as I put it on Fox the other night, like the second wave of COVID, just when you thought it was gone, back they come. And secondly, you've got Earl Spencer's book, where he talks about being a historian, You know, similar kind of world that you operate in as an author. Dumping all over the king, saying terrible things that Charles was supposed to have said to him 30 years ago and so on.

57:17Piers Morgan:My question, I think, is how does America view our royal family now? Because it seems to me it's not as popular as it was, but there's still a lot of support for them. There's not a lot of emotion involved. It's more like a spectator sport. Look at these dopey royals. That's what it is. But it's a huge industry. And the tragedy of it is that this Spencer book will probably outsell me. I think that's just outrageous. I think that is an outrage. Well, you know, it's quite, you would have heard this, but I got an early copy and we found the entry about me where he just completely makes up an entire story, which I can prove is completely made up because he talks about something.

58:03Piers Morgan:Yeah, why not though? Well. Why not? It's such an industry that he's got to fill 275 pages. People don't understand both in the United States and in the UK. You just don't walk into a publisher and get money to write a book. You go in and you tell the publisher, this is the book I want to write. Yeah. Okay. I want to make the king look bad. OK, I don't want two sides or I want to make Meghan and Harry look bad. And the publisher will either write the check or he won't. It's like it's like in America we have all these hate Trump books. OK, well, it's not that they've investigated Trump. They go in hating him.

58:52Piers Morgan:That's true. And trying to back up the hatred. That's how it's done. Yeah, no, it's true. What did you make of the Ed Sheeran furore, Bill? The what? The Ed Sheeran furore. Oh, oh, oh, oh. That's the little guy with the funny haircut, right? Yes. Yeah, I'm still with Herman's Hermits myself. I mean, I am truly a dinosaur when it comes to that. Look, I don't understand a Macklemore or a Sheeran. obviously talented man and all that. But people want, they go to concerts for relief, you know, to get away from their problems and to have a good time. Do we really need Israel's committing genocide from some rapper with tattoos from head to toe?

59:50Do we really need that? So if I'm Ed, okay, I kind of say, all right, we respect your opinion about Israel or whatever you want, but let's keep it light. Let's entertain the folks. Okay? We don't need to get into this big geopolitical thing and use our status to push it. We don't need to do that. I think that would be a logical thing. Springsteen does this here in America. He runs around and, hey, Bruce, look, you want to come up against me or peers for half an hour and talk geopolitics? Then I'll respect you.

1:00:36Piers Morgan:Yeah. But you don't, Bruce. Yeah. You don't. Yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you. It's interesting you mentioned tattoos, because in your book, Confronting America, What Has to Change, which is an excellent book. I always love reading your stuff. It always makes me think. Thank you. It always makes me think. You challenge me to think about things in a certain way, which I probably haven't thought about before. I think that's always a great thing of any author. So I do appreciate that. But in there, you talk about the things you don't like, and one of them is tattoos. You say a neck tattoo is not going to stimulate higher wages unless you're motivated to work in a strip club.

1:01:15Piers Morgan:Showing up for a job, looking like a Hell's Angel, is not going to advance your cause in most pieces. Americans need to think about self-respect. As a tattoo-free man, I agree with you, Bill. Listen, it's an economic situation. Thank God I'm as handsome as I am, so I don't need any embellishments. I don't need a big panther on the neck, OK? I'm fine with the way I was born and the way I've evolved. But in our country, and I think to some extent the UK, you walk into a job interview, you are instantly evaluated on your appearance. I do it. I run three corporations. And I look at the person, and if I see a sleeve or a tattoo on the nose or teardrops, whatever they're doing, that is not a positive.

1:02:13for me to hire that person. Now, I could be wrong about the person might be the nicest person might be brilliant, all of that. But it's very hard in a capitalist society to make a success of yourself. And you don't need to do this other stuff, unless you're going to be Macklemore. Okay, are you going to be out there with Ed Sheeran? Are you going to do that? Okay, then you can have as many tattoos as you want. You're going to be a soccer player in England? Go ahead. But if you're a regular folk and you're going in to try to get a good job, none of this piercing in the nose, none of it will help you.

1:03:01It's human nature.

1:03:04Piers Morgan:I totally agree. In fact, I'm going to have a tattoo inspection of my entire staff at the end of this. Bill, always great to talk to you. Thank you very much indeed for joining me. Thanks for reading the book, Piers. I appreciate it. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.

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