“It's NOT Far-Right!" Musk Fuels UK Flags & Free Speech War | Andrew Wilson vs Cenk Uygur

24:38What if it was hate speech for invective to be hurled at them online? I think if folks had to taste the medicine of this from across the different groups in the UK so that everyone had a kind of mutually assured destruction about this, I think everybody knows that if these laws were actually applied with any sort of fairness at all, then basically everybody in the UK would be arrested.

25:05Piers Morgan:OK, but let me throw it back at you quickly on that point, because very critical of the UK, as indeed most people in the UK are, frankly. But you've also got the same time President Trump wanting to jail people who burn the American flag. What do you feel about that? Presumably you would be as incensed about that infringement of people's rights. Yeah, I think that I certainly have an issue with that. I feel that that is an infringement on free speech rights. I think that there are some complications about, I guess, the scale of the damage. When I think about... If you own the flag, if you own the American flag and you want to burn it, why should the state get in your way?

25:50Piers Morgan:Why should you face a year in prison? I don't think they should. And let me be clear about that. I don't agree with Trump's policy on that. I'm simply looking at the scale of damage here in terms of... of... With the UK, what I'm trying to say here is you have this massive problem in the UK where you have 12 ,000 arrests a year. I get that, but I just don't think it's just a UK issue. What about the Palestinian protests on campuses? What about the number of college students that were arrested on campuses for protesting Palestine? Should they have been arrested or deported? Well, hang on, let's just be clear about what was going on on those campuses in the wake of October the 7th.

26:28Piers Morgan:There were protests and many of them were protesting perfectly peacefully. There were others who were genuinely seen... I'd like to hear from him about the barometer for free speech. I'll tell you. They were genuinely seen harassing Jewish students who were barricaded into classrooms. Others had Hamas signage and so on. So they weren't all just innocent peaceful protesters. But I'm asking about the barometer for free speech from your guest, because at what point do you limit free speech? That's what I'm asking. Smashing into lecture rooms is a definite red line, is it not? Well, it's an act of vandalism, stroke violence and threatening intimidation.

27:04It's not free speech. That is just violence. But just going back to the point that you made, Mike, the question you asked me, which was extremely pertinent. When a government practices extreme ideologies, such as trying to convince its population to turn their heads upside down and accept that men can be women, the only way to perpetrate that extreme ideology and to get it accepted is to shut down free speech. And it goes for many other forms of ideology that are being perpetrated against the people of this country, including mass migration, illegal migration, a refusal to detain and deport people who come to this country illegally.

27:39So they're now policing our posts on X about our feelings about migration. We've got a whole police unit dedicated to it. We have journalists, and I'm sure peers will agree with me here. We have journalists being questioned by police for non-crime hate incidents. They're actually termed non-crime hate incidents. They're not criminal activities, but they have the police turning up to their doorstep on a Sunday morning. And this is all anti-democratic. And I think that was the underlying point you were also making, Mike, that when you have minorities being protected with this extreme form of ideology and the shutting down of free speech, effectively, the damage that's done is to the majority, to the democratic voices within this country.

28:19and that is what is happening.

28:22Piers Morgan:OK, Andrew Wilson, on the issue of burning the American flag, where do you sit with that? Because I hear a lot of Americans taking a very high moral ground about censoring free speech and expression in the UK, but it seems to me that is a pretty direct attack on someone's right to do that if they wish to do that. Where do you sit with it? Yeah, so a couple things. First, I think it's fine to throw people who burn the American flag in jail. I have no problem with it at all. If you're in the United States, you burn our symbols. By the way, this has only been since 1989 that this has been a law. Only since 1989.

28:58Almost every state had laws against this. Why? Because it considered it an incitement. Trump's executive order says the exact same thing. He considers it incitement under certain contexts. That's how they're going to avoid the Supreme Court. It's a good law. I support it 100%. We absolutely should be able to throw these people in jail. In some ways, also kind of going circling back just very quickly, when you say, oh, the UK prosecutes people for speech, that's true, they do. In some ways, that might even be superior to the system we have in the United States, though, where if you're far right, you're debanked and depersoned with no due process at all.

29:32We do that here, too. Without ever even knowing why that was the case. I mean, at least there you're getting some kind of due process. Here you don't even get that. And so the thing is, it's like this is everywhere. It's not just there. The idea that we have to allow our enemies to pick our battles for us, we have to let Sankey Gur say either it's the case, that you allow your enemies to burn the flag while they tear down all of your monuments. They tore down the Confederate flags. They don't care. They don't care about free speech. I'm not letting them pick our battles for us. Sorry. You burned our symbols.

30:03You do these riots in California where you combine a Mexican flag and an American flag. While you're burning our American flag, it looks like an invasion, not a riot. And so, yeah, you know, there has to be a line in the sand that we draw, and I'm going to draw it at the symbol, and I'm not going to let lefties tell us one way or the other what we can or can't do.

30:21Piers Morgan:Well, let me ask the two lefties here. Let me start with you, Cenk, then I'll come to you over. Cenk, as one of the two lefties on the panel, your response to the flag-burning support of people being jailed for that by Andrew? Now, everybody knows how much I enjoy my tea, and I'm very happy to say that today's show is sponsored by Peaks Pure Fermented Teas. These are not your average brews. They're sourced from 250-year-old wild trees in the Himalayan foothills, which are untouched by modern farming. No pesticides, no fertilisers, just nature at its best. Pure delivers a full spectrum of prebiotics, probiotics and postbiotics, just like the fermented foods found in longevity hotspots.

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31:51Yeah, so I believe in and I love freedom of speech, and I'm principled on it as Mike is here, and obviously Andrew isn't. So, look, I also love the American flag. I think you should bring the flag to all protests because protesting is one of our fundamental rights in America. That's part of why we love America, especially if you're going to an immigrant protest. Please bring an American flag. So I would never burn an American flag. I think it's the dumbest thing in the world. It bothers me viscerally. But are you allowed to burn one? Yes, of course you are, because that's part of what's great about this country.

32:24You have freedom of speech. But our freedom of speech is being taken away. There is one particular case where it is super aggressive, and that's if you criticize Israel. If you criticize Israel on a college campus, you'll be arrested by masked men and whisked away. And there's threats of taking your diploma away, never being able to get a job, arrested, denaturalized, deported. If you criticize Israel in America, you're in a world of trouble and in a lot of other countries. So if you want to talk about abuse of free speech, there is one giant abuser, And that is Israel and all the politicians that they buy in all the Western countries and especially America.

33:04Piers Morgan:OK, let's go to he's right about that. It is atrocious that there there's even a proposed legislation that if you burn the Israeli flag, you can go to jail. Has nothing to do with American symbolism, has nothing to do with our flag. We have the stars and stripes which men have died and bled for for hundreds of years. Immigrants don't get to come here, many times illegally, and burn it on the cameras as part of a demoralizing system for the public. To hell with that. We don't have to allow that at all. You don't have to allow it, Andrew. But Andrew, I would say this. We shouldn't. But Andrew, I would say this.

33:39Piers Morgan:A lot of my family served in the UK armed forces in warfare, including in World War II, and they fought for the freedom of people to actually exercise their right to free speech and expression, even if it's very offensive to other people. I mean, isn't that the point of fighting for freedom? You are allowed to then express yourself in ways that other people find offensive. No offense, Pierce, but I don't think a single one of your family members fought for the right people to burn your nation's flag that they were fighting for. Actually, I think they did. I believe that my countrymen and my family members were fighting in war so that we could have more gay butt-sex and more freedom to go and make sure that we can have gay pride parades.

34:22I don't believe it for a second. I don't believe they were fighting for trans rights. I don't believe it. No, you're missing the point.

34:28Piers Morgan:Storm Germany for trans rights. They were fighting. They were fighting. Nonsense. Yeah, but Andrew, they were fighting for the freedom, for people to have the freedom to live their lives as they want to lead them. I mean, isn't that the whole point of the World War II defeat of the Nazis? The Nazis wanted us all to behave a certain way. We decided as a war, we're not going to accept it. But you have to have freedom from the very oppression of the people who are now invading your nation and taking it over, destroying the very things that these people fought for under those symbols. It's a very powerful point.

35:02You don't have to allow it. Are the Germans invading America? No, but Andrew's making a very... What's going on? Andrew's making a very powerful point. The people who've come to the United States, people who've come to the United Kingdom, are using the very freedoms that we've granted them effectively to mount an attack on the United Kingdom and the United States. That's what's happening. We have a very delicate, fragile, advanced form of a constitution, a democratic system. Through demoralization. Through demoralization, invasion, and abuse of laws, sake, it's obvious how. It's so obvious how, how can you not see it?

35:35No, it's not at all obvious. You're just making that up. Do you want me to walk you through it step by step? How I just watched in California, huge amounts of Hispanics, many of whom were illegal, burning our very symbols, doing it with the, they had a flag, which was a combination of the Mexican flag and the American flag. They made it themselves just to, just to do anything you could to shit on our symbols, saying it has been a total invasion here and in the UK, and you're full of shit. No, this whole talk of invasion is nonsense. Okay, okay, then we can, let's flip it on its head. How about the invasion of the Mayflower and the Puritans who invaded the Native American land here look i'm not making that point you're making you're making a right to conquer about like every wave of immigrants so hold on hold on hold on let me make the point let me make the point so okay so then the wave of italians and irish that came oh it's an invasion it's an invasion wave of jews that came it's an invasion muslims invasion every time there's immigrants we're like i don't know about the uk uk is not my business the united states is about freedom and it's a country built on immigrants and originally if any of those immigrants like the irish and the italians and then italians and jews and irish and then all across the world and chinese and they've all made incredible contributions to america and that is why america is stronger than all other nations because we take the best of the best from the whole world and they come here for our freedom so i love those freedoms i love america these are the best of the best of people who are coming here The flag is equality and justice.

37:06They don't come here for some sort of weirdo white state that you're in favor of. They burn it. What do you mean? They're burning it. And by the way, the Italians and the Irish you're talking about, they would have gone to jail for burning the flag, Sam. No, this is nonsense. They should get it right. It's not nonsense. No, you're talking about two people on TV. We're talking about millions of immigrants who love this country. The idea that everyone... You're smearing millions of immigrants.

37:31Piers Morgan:Every immigrant in America is out there burning thighs. It's preposterous. Those immigrants who love this country agree with me that she should go to jail for burning its flag. All right. Let me bring in Ava. Ava. Look, you're on Native American land. Why don't you go back home, okay? You're on Native American land. Go back home. Okay, you invader. You're an invader. You're ruining America by invading it. Get out. And you don't even believe in our freedom or our justice or our equality. So why don't you get out and go back home to whichever cave you came from in Europe? You're at the mercy of the same argument.

38:01You're at the mercy of the same exact argument. Then you're on Native American land. And if it's all about the conquerors, then I'm rightly pointing out that we're being conquered. I love the idea of America. That's why we came here. You don't care about equality. You don't love the idea of America. You want an exclusive place based on race or religion. And that's the opposite of America. Okay, let me jump in. Learn what this country's about.

38:25Piers Morgan:Okay, let me jump in. Let me jump in, guys. I WANT TO BRING IN AVA HERE, BECAUSE I WANT TO PLAY A CLIP. THIS IS EVETTE COOPER, WHO IS THE U.K. HOME SECRETARY, SO THE HOMELAND SECURITY BOSS IN THIS COUNTRY. BECAUSE WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING IS AS NIGEL FARRAGE AND THE REFORM PARTY, AND INDEED BEN AND HIS PARTY, THEY 'VE BEEN BANGING THE DRUM EVER LOUDER ABOUT THIS ISSUE OF IMMIGRATION WITH GOOD REASON IN MANY CASES, BECAUSE MOST BRITISH PEOPLE I THINK NOW ACCEPT THAT THE ISSUE OF PEOPLE coming in illegally on these small boats is completely out of control and no government appears to be able to stop it.

39:03Piers Morgan:In fact, it's getting worse. The issue of legal migration has got out of control. We had nearly a net million people come in, I think it was a year and a half, two years ago. Not on small boats, though, just to clarify. No, no, I said legal. So you've got the illegal issue of people coming in on the small boats. You've got legal migration also out of control with all the pressure that that's been putting on public services already creaking at the seams. And also alleviating a lot of the pressure. Let me make my point, then I'm going to come to you. So the point being that more and more people are concerned about this.

39:33Piers Morgan:So the Labour government under Sakhir Starmer and Yvette Cooper, who's home man security in the UK, Home Secretary, they've now, in many people's eyes, are now pivoting more and more to what is perceived to be the right, particularly over the issue of flags. And it led to this extraordinary interview with Yvette Cooper on the BBC News this morning. Let's take a look. Do you have a flag on display in your home, on your home? We actually have Union Jack bunting on our garden shed at the moment. I've got St George's flags, I've got St George's bunting, I've got the Yorkshire Rose bunting as well, I've got Union Jack flags and tablecloths.

40:15Piers Morgan:The reason that is so laughable to many people is that many on the left have associated the Union Jack and St George's flag with the right wing. No! If you have a bunch of flags like that in your house, you must be a right-wing headbanger. Ava, is there not a delicate situation here where the left are becoming the far right? It's honestly, it's just not true. I'm laughing of the lunacy. I suppose this is difficult for an American audience because you guys do have flags around. And, you know, my partner is American and he does have his flag loud and proud quite often. But Brits don't do this. They don't sort of adorn everything with a Union Jack.

40:52It's just not... Our Home Secretary does, we just heard it. We're sort of more demure. Almost not a single inch of our house doesn't seem to have a flag. I know. But that's funny to me, because they've got themselves so embroiled in this argument about trying not to be perceived to hate the flag that they've actually gone way overboard with it. But I can't even remember what the main point was. What was the point? I think the whole issue... It's laughing about the flags.

41:13Piers Morgan:Well, the whole issue is whether flag-waving, flag-hanging, whether it's become a symbol of patriotic pride or is it something more sinister where it becomes a very nationalistic thing which is driven by people who perhaps have a more nefarious intent? I mean, Ben, maybe you're... Well, the point I was going to make is the reason people fear it's becoming nationalistic when they do fear it, if they do fear it, it's because the nation-state of the United Kingdom is under attack. Oh, shut up. No, absolutely it is. We are having our constitution and our culture and our people set aside. Mass migration, coupled with diversity, equity and inclusion, which we've touched on briefly with the transgender debate, puts a protective blanket around people who come to this country, celebrates their culture, promotes their culture and sets ours aside.

42:04We have a whole employment agenda from the RAF to public services to GCHQ, all employing ethnic minorities over white British people. They're designed to do it. And so our flag-waving is not divisive. It is an act of defiance when we do it because we're saying we are British, we are English, and we want to be recognised for it. And we want the government to do what's right for the United Kingdom and for England. That's what we want, and it's a perfectly reasonable...

42:37Piers Morgan:Hang on, let Ava respond first, and I'll come to the others. So this is confected outrage. It's not confected outrage. Every single, you know, twice a year, we will celebrate the England football team. We will celebrate that we just celebrated the Lionesses, the English football team, winning the Euros. It was incredible. Everyone is waving the St. George's Cross, which is the English flag. No one fears the flag. What they do fear, which I think this, where this sort of conversation has been born out of, is that when there are times of, say, instability and there is a fire underpinning, you know, there's sort of like a rage burning out of the far right, those people do tend to...

43:12Far right. Did I even make the point yet? No. But you go straight to far right. What's the far right got to do with this? I haven't said it yet. Believing in your national symbol, being proud of your flag. I could have been pouring water on, like, you know, my own argument. You don't know yet. Like, you know. Go ahead and finish your argument. The point being, when there is, say, a protest outside of an asylum hotel that seems very dangerous or vitriolic, those people do, they're waving these St. George's crosses. And sometimes there are people who point out that that does seem intimidating. Why?

43:39Because it's being done in a way. It's being waved flagrantly in a way to intimidate. No, it's not. It's not saying... It's sending a message. My British values are we are inclusive. We go to wars to protect people who are at the subjugation of a dictatorship. My British flag does not represent people who are burning effigies outside an asylum hotel. The extreme policy of mass migration coupled by the protection and promotion of minority ethnic and cultural rights in the United Kingdom is an assault on civil society in this country. It is an assault on the United Kingdom. People go to these protests with these flags to remind the authorities that this is England, that this is the United Kingdom.

44:17All right, all right, but Ben... Please protect us.

44:18Piers Morgan:All right, but Ben, let me just hold you... Hang on, I just want to talk to Ben about something you said... Yeah. ..in April last year, when you were talking about what should happen... Julia Hartley Brewer. ..to people coming in on small boats, right? And you said, let's not infantilise these people. They have free will. I'm not going to be held to ransom by their claim. They deserve protection as soon as they get to our territorial waters. If they choose to scupper that dinghy, then yes, they have to suffer the consequences of their actions. In other words, drown. Now, the reason that created such a furore is I don't recognize a country in the UK where we are that contemptible towards anyone who may be seeking genuine asylum in our country, coming from a war-torn country, particularly, by the way, if we've been involved in waging an illegal war on that country.

45:10Piers Morgan:Take Iraq, for example. I don't like our elected officials to be talking about, yeah, let them drown. As a general comment about everybody coming in, some of whom are obviously genuine asylum seekers. That's not to say they all are. There are many people on these small boats coming in who are clearly young men, economic migrants, on the make wanting to make a better life for themselves in the UK. That's fine, but if you want to do that, do it the legal way, which is the way it should be done. And we've lost control, and that's wrong. But I don't want to have a country, Ben, where we are so heartless that we think everyone, including women and children, who might be coming in as genuine asylum seekers, should just be left to drown.

45:54Well, I'm very glad you brought this up, Piers, because I know you had a debate on Question Time about this comment with Nigel Farage. and it's got to be put into context. The argument that Julia Hartley Brewer was making was that... The argument I had made was that we need... She was the interviewer from... She was the interviewer. And the argument I had made is we need a dedicated train force which intercepts these dinghies and prevents them from entering our territorial waters and sends them back to France, which, by the way, under international law, is our right. And she said, what if, Ben, one of the dinghy...

46:27People on the dinghy produce a knife and they stab their dinghy and they end up in the North Sea. Would you rescue them? I said, well, I said, give them another dinghy and they can go back to France. And she said, what if they stab that dinghy as well? And at that point, I gave into the gotcha moment that she was seeking. And I said, well, at some point, they've got to take responsibility for their actions. But the really crucial issue here is that Belgium...

46:51Piers Morgan:But do you regret the way you phrase that? Well, I regret the fact that it's been taken out of context and repeatedly used against me. Well, if they choose to scupper that dinghy, then, yes, they have to suffer the consequences of their actions. If someone repeatedly puts themselves in danger, are you obliged to allow them to assault your civil society in their protection? I think there is a difference between someone who's coming in as a perfectly fit and healthy economic migrant from a country that is not a war-torn country. Which is France. They're all coming from France. With respect, I think that is a rather factuous argument.

47:29Piers Morgan:I'll explain why. Of course they're all coming from France, and I have massive issues with the French not doing more to stop them getting on the boats. But my point is, where is their point of origin? And if you've got women and children, let's be specific here, women and children who are coming from war-torn countries, genuinely seeking asylum because of the horrors that they're having to endure, and they're on one of these boats, I don't like the language of they should be left to drown. For that part of it, I think you should apologise. No, I'm not going to apologise, because you're taking it out of context.

48:02But the key thing here is that there's nothing more uncivilised than allowing criminal entry into your country and not protecting civilised society in the United Kingdom. I agree with that. That is a fundamentally uncivilised position. I agree with that.

48:17Piers Morgan:But it is nuanced. And I think when we don't allow for any nuance here, when we don't accept that there are certain people... But the quote's taken out. There was nuance in the debate, and it's completely taken out. As you put it, you were gotcha'd into basically saying, let him drown. I don't think he was gotcha'd. He just showed his true colours. No, well, thank you. Now you're projecting yourself into my mind. I've got a question. I don't understand. This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Yeah, if they stab their boat and they drown, who cares? What, are they stupid, right? If you're dumb enough to stab your boat and you go under the water and you drown, why do I care again, Pierce?

48:53Why do I care? Because you want to make a political statement? Let's assume for a moment, Andrew,

48:59Piers Morgan:that a young child on that boat did not stab the boat and knew nothing about what was happening. Would you feel comfortable about letting them drown? Yeah, sure, sure. Go save the children if you can. But the thing is, is he's absolutely right. Hold responsible who is responsible for stabbing the boat and having the boat go down and having these people drown. Hold to the responsibility of those who are responsible. Don't hold to responsibility of those who you are begging to come save you after you did this stupid thing to yourself. But to be clear, though, unless I misheard you, you said you should try and save the innocent people in that scenario.

49:34Yes, but the accounting morally is not that... So you wouldn't let them drown, is my point. Yes, but the account morally is not that the person you're begging... I mean, that's the point we're talking about. You either let them drown or you try and do the humane thing,

49:44Piers Morgan:which is you save their lives, and then you have the arguments about what to do with them. Yes, but the thing is, you're not beholden to that. You're not beholden to this idea that people can hold you hostage. Yeah, listen, honestly, I look at what Trump has done on the southern border, and I wish we had a bit of that here, right? He's basically shut that problem down. Can I just make one more point? The Belgians have developed a specific force to intercepting his leaving Belgian shores and send them back in exactly the same way that I was advocating on talk radio that morning. And it has succeeded.

50:17The launches from Belgian shores is almost stopped. Yeah, but Ben, they do have a returns agreement because they haven't left the European Union the way they read it. The returns agreement is absolutely blooming irrelevant. You might get to shout platitudes here because these are three Americans and they probably aren't familiar with the Dublin agreement. The Dublin agreement never worked. There were net five people that were ever deported from the United Kingdom.

50:37Piers Morgan:The point is none of the government policies from the Conservative right or the Labour left have worked with either illegal or legal migration this century. That is the cold, hard truth. And you can chart it back to when Tony Blair was Prime Minister and suddenly took off all restrictions pretty much on people coming in from Eastern Europe. So it was never even a question of skin colour, as some people have tried to make it. We got a huge number of people coming from Eastern Europe, and that began to immediately change the fabric of the country in terms of pressure on public services and so on.

51:12Piers Morgan:And actually, one of the ironies of Brexit is far from enabling us to control our borders, it led to a more out-of-control border. Well, it's because we had Boris Johnson as Prime Minister who was incapable of governing anything. Let me bring my Benson. Ben, you did actually put Boris Johnson into government. I didn't put Boris Johnson into government. You actually did. When you were part of the Brexit party, when you were part of that formation, you stepped aside to allow Boris Johnson to get government. No, no, no, let's just be clear. You cannot sit here and pretend. I don't care about whether you did or did.

51:38Let's just be clear.

51:40Piers Morgan:Let's be clear, I don't care. Let's bring in Mike Benson. Mike Benson, you've been waiting very patiently here. But this whole issue of... Because I think it's all woven in. You're seeing a massive increase in the flag-waving, in the patriotic statements and so on, from people who are genuinely concerned about what is happening to their country, I think both here and in the United States. You're seeing obvious problems with immigration. You're seeing in America, I think Trump's been very successful with his policy on the southern border. I think most Americans agree with him when he says we should deport undocumented people in the United States who commit crimes.

52:16Piers Morgan:Where the flashpoint has come is that people, largely the majority of Americans in the polls I've read, do not agree with Donald Trump when he basically says that anyone who's in the country is undocumented should be deported or should be encouraged to leave the country. That's where it seems to me the flashpoint is. What is your view of how everybody is handling this issue of immigration? Well, I'm not sure what polls you're citing there. I wouldn't be surprised, I guess, in either direction on that. I think that Trump has tried to walk a kind of fine line on that, at times, offering the idea that everybody who's here illegally has to go out.

52:57But under certain conditions, you could come back in with a letter essentially from your employer. I think this was proposed in the agriculture space, for example, where many U.S. agricultural industries and travel and hospitality industries have become dependent on essentially illegal labor, which is something that unions in America used to be very much against. And then I think as the kind of wokeness took over and militarism and war refugee policy to help American wars kind of ran over that kind of left wing union protectionism, that seems to have gone away. But now I think what Trump is doing is kind of the right approach in a difficult topic.

53:46Piers Morgan:Yeah, I mean, Cenk, again, we've discussed this before. We broke a few weeks ago. But this issue of immigration is fundamentally the core issue which has been causing so many of the problems. You know, because of things like the war in Syria, the war in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan, the war in Ukraine, seeing it now potentially happening the same in Gaza for different reasons. But you're seeing millions of people coming over, particularly across Europe, looking for somewhere better to live, fearful of where they are living, fearful of the wars they're having to endure. And the question becomes, how many people should a reasonably safe democratic country like the United States, like the UK, be expected to take in?

54:33Piers Morgan:And where do you draw the line between genuine asylum seekers and people who just want to come in for economic reasons, but are coming in illegally. Yeah, I largely agree with everything you're saying. And you're basically citing the polls. We're agreeing with a great majority of the American people. By the way, a lot of the independent podcasters like Joe Rogan, Tim Dillon, Theo Vaughn, almost all of them are on our side. So what's our side? Our side is, look, of course, you got to close the border. Of course, you got to kick out criminals who are undocumented. THAT'S COMMON SENSE. AND THEN ONCE YOU START GETTING TO GUYS IN MASK WITHOUT BADGES, GRABBING PEOPLE OFF THE STREETS, THAT'S A DISASTER.

55:16THAT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE AMERICA. IT ISN'T AMERICA. AND BY THE WAY, THE NUMBER OF IMMIGRANTS IS A SEPARATE ISSUE. I'M GOING TO COME BACK TO THAT IN A SECOND. BUT NOW, UNFORTUNATELY, WE'RE SEEING IN NEW YORK, NORTH CAROLINA, AND ONE OTHER STATE THAT'S ALREADY HAPPENED, MASKED MEN WITH VANS WITHOUT BADGES, JUST LIKE ICE, PRETENDING TO BE ICE, putting women in vans and then raping them. So there's a reason why we show badges and why we don't wear masks in law enforcement in America. We should go back to making America what it was and not this weirdo quasi-military state. No one's in favor of that. Now, in terms of how many immigrants to let in, that's a fair question.

55:55There's no reason why the U.K. and the U.S. can't collectively, through democracy, decide how many we should let in. And I think that immigrants are great for America. UK is a little bit different. You guys have to make up your own mind on how you want to deal with things. But part of America is that we are an open society and one that is built on immigrants. And so, you know, we often talk about, oh, immigrants use social services. But they also contribute massively to America, both literally in the taxes that they pay in Social Security and Medicare that they never get back, but also in other ways, like, for example, in all the great things that they create.

56:33Steve Jobs' dad was a Syrian immigrant, and now we have Apple that's created so many jobs and an economic boom in America. So immigrants built this country. In America, I would say that we should allow a healthy amount in, and we should have a pathway to citizenship. But that doesn't mean that we have to tolerate lawbreaking. And lastly, on the asylum seekers, look, there's international laws and U.S. laws about this, and you have to give people a fair hearing. but that doesn't mean that you necessarily have to let them into the country. It just means you have to expedite that process very quickly.

57:07And finally, Pierce, to your point, it's a really good one. I mean, we start endless wars for Israel in the Middle East, Iraq, Iran, the devastation of the Palestinians in the occupied territories. They just killed the entire Houthi cabinet and prime minister and Lebanon, Syria. It goes on and on and on, all the wars that Israel has created all over the Middle East, And then they say, OK, now take all the immigrants and the refugees from there, who a lot of them have decent asylum claims. If they stay in the occupied territories, they'll be brutalized by Israel. So now we have to take them. Why don't we just stop the wars?

57:42And that's another thing that the great majority of Americans agree with. But unfortunately, our leaders don't. They want more wars for Israel. And then we have to deal with all of the different consequences that flow from that.

57:53Piers Morgan:OK, final word just for you, Ben. Elon Musk is throwing himself behind your party here and being very critical of Nigel Farage and reform. How do you feel about your new backer? Are you happy about this? Are you perturbed that he may find you the new shiny toy and then do a Farage on you? What's your message for Elon? No, not at all. I mean, Elon Musk and I, it was... I had a discussion in January, And he said to me in January when he first twigged that Farage isn't the right man, Ben, you know, you should start a political party. And I said to him that I think it's terribly challenging in the United Kingdom to do it.

58:33And I sort of pooh-poohed the idea. And then, of course, Rupert Lowe was thrown out of reform in the way that he was thrown out. And I felt that opened up an opportunity because it revealed to the world really what Farage was like. And at that point, I went back to Elon and said, I think it's time to start this party. I go back on, you know, I go back on what I said to you in January. I think we need to do it. And I started building this party behind the scenes. And he's obviously been watching what I've been up to. Is he now financially backing you? No, he isn't. Has he offered to? No, and I'm not seeking any money.

59:08Would you accept it if he did? Look, it's critical.

59:13Piers Morgan:It's a yes or no. Well, it's critical. He's the richest man in the world. It's critical. He's an American citizen. It's critical. Would you accept money for your party from a non-British citizen? Advance UK stands for the restoration of the United Kingdom. Why wouldn't you answer that? And therefore, I'm... It is a simple answer. It's yes or no. Well, it depends on... No, it doesn't. No, it does depend. You either take Elon's money or you don't. No, it depends on the quantum, whether it comes without any... The quantum or quantity? Quantum, quantity, and the route in which it comes. Let me clarify.

59:51Piers Morgan:Would you have no problem in principle with receiving money from Elon Musk? I would not take money from any individual who sought to influence the party as a result of their donation. But if money comes in... You've already seen with his relationship with Donald Trump that Elon, of course, would want to have influence. But, look, he has his influence. Just simply by endorsing us, there's influence there. And, you know, it's propelled Advance UK forward. Right. So just finally, I've got to move on. I thought we'd run out of time. But just yes or no, would you accept his money? In the right circumstances, I would, yeah.

1:00:27Piers Morgan:OK, we got there. Foreign money. You don't really like foreign money accepting that. How could you? What? He's an immigrant from South Africa. You're betraying everything you stand for. And he's now an American citizen. No, hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Who says that I'm against immigrants? Who says I'm against immigration? I'm not. Oh, no. I'm against mass immigration and I'm against illegal migration. They're completely different things. And to conflate the two is to completely miss the point. When a billionaire comes, you're in favor of his money, right? No, absolutely nonsense. Yeah, he's going to take his money.

1:00:59I know. The immigrants' sake, isn't that great? I will never... Take his money? I can say something. Elon's money is throw out Elon. I'll say something absolutely categorically now. I will never ask Elon Musk for money. I will not ask him for money. Well, what else can he offer you? I didn't ask him for anything.

1:01:19Piers Morgan:You've left yourself the wriggle room for him just giving it to you. Well, if someone... And you've already said if he gives it to you, you'll take it. If someone generously offers up money through the correct legal process and doesn't seek to influence the direction of travel of your political party, then why would you not take it? I think we're in knots there, aren't we? Ben Habib, I will take Elon's billions. I didn't say that. We will leave it there. You're not getting that gotcha moment. I've just got it. No, you haven't. I've just got it. No, you haven't. Thank you all to my panel. I can't believe you're taking immigrant money.

1:01:52Piers Morgan:I appreciate you all. From my first panel back, it was as lively as I hoped. Thank you all very much. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical. And we couldn't do it without you.