“It's NOT Racist!” Immigration Debate Feat Konstantin Kisin

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21:28Piers Morgan:That's expressvpn.com slash peers. Yeah, I mean, that's the problem. I mean, although it is an illegal immigration issue, what we're talking about here, there's also been a massive legal immigration issue in the UK, where a year or so ago, they worked out nearly a million people in terms of net migration for the year had come into the UK. A lot of it was obviously Ukraine and a lot from Hong Kong and places like that. But a huge number of people, like I say, into a country already creaking up the seams in terms of its ability for the public services to serve the current population. Again, all that does is create a lot of tension.

22:09Piers Morgan:It turned out the biggest problem was not bringing in highly skilled people who can contribute well to society and so on. You want to bring to a country, any country, but they were allowed to bring a huge number of dependents with them. You know, families of five, six, seven people were coming in with each of the people allowed in. That was actually the big problem. But, you know, if you start rising the population of the UK by a million a year, very, very quickly, you're going to see the problems we've been seeing massively exacerbated. Well, let me make just a very brief bit of context, give a very brief bit of context that I think sets the UK situation in a very clear light.

22:46We had the Blair government, and 13 years of the Labour government then, and then it got worse under the Conservatives thereafter, as you made the point. Under one government, we had more people come into this country than had come to Britain in its entire history. Since the Battle of Hastings in 1066, up until 1950, the number of people that came in under Blair and Brown was higher than the total over 1 ,000 years.

23:11Piers Morgan:And that was mainly from Eastern Europe, right? So this wasn't a question... This is why when the genuine racists get into this debate, which is always an unfortunate side effect of it, they often come at it from a skin colour perspective. It's the brown and black people that are the problem. Actually, as Constantine just rightly said, in the first part of this century, it was opening the floodgates quite literally to a lot of people from Eastern Europe who were white. But that was what caused the initial big problem, I think. I agree. And I think you then add on top of that the subsequent Conservative governments, which then opened the floodgates to the rest of the world.

23:53And so we've got this cumulative problem. And look, it's very important to say... I mean, there are differences between different groups of people. And so, you know, you mentioned the racism point. Well, we've had tens of thousands of Hong Kongers come in. Do you hear lots of anti-Hong Kong rhetoric in this country? We've had hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians fleeing the war coming in. Are you hearing lots of anti-Ukrainian sentiment? No, because ultimately this is a cultural problem, and this point Brandon made very well. When you have people coming from certain places where, let's be honest, women are considered second-class citizens, if not cattle, then of course you're going to be expecting some of the incidents that we've seen, whether it's grooming gangs, whether it's lots of other problems that we've had up and down the country.

24:38So we also have to be reasonable and actually delineate between immigration, legal immigration, and what we basically have is people coming illegally against the wishes of the British public. And the final point I'll make is this, both in the United States and here, nobody, and I mean nobody, voted for this. Nobody voted for this. Nobody signed up to this. And I'm glad we're sitting here with the four of us from different political perspectives, and all of us now today agree it's not racist to bring this up. But also, let's be honest, Piers. Five years ago, bringing these points up would have got you demonised.

25:14Piers Morgan:We wouldn't have had the debate. Correct. Right, because people would have said if you're raising any concerns about this, obviously you're a racist. And that's one of the benefits of this problem getting so bad. At least we're finally allowed to talk about it. Oli, what do we do about the fact that it does, unfortunately, always bring out the genuine racists, right? There are genuine racists. They're sort of more easily identifiable now because of things like social media. We can see them in the marches or whatever. But there are. There is a racist element. You don't want any foreigners coming into the country.

25:44And that tends to turn the debate into something rather different.

25:49Piers Morgan:How do we have this debate and sort things out without that element exploiting it? Great question, Piers. I just, I would also clarify as well this point about sort of the racism that black and brown people experience and the racism that people of Eastern European descent experience as well. I used to work in a McDonald's with 50 % of the staffers from Poland and I assure you there is plenty of anti-Polish racism amongst the British public. You know, they're white people as well. Yeah, of course there is. I remember at the time as well, you know, there was plenty. But look, how do you confront racism?

26:21Multi-pronged approach. Education being the primary one. I think a strong functioning economy, a functioning state, is a second one, I think. The debate we've been having, like, for example, that police station in Krober that Constantine mentioned, yeah, I'm sure Krober is a pretty safe place. Police stations and police officer numbers over the last 14 years were cut. Every touchstone in this conversation, sort of the failure of the state, whether it's in the planning of skills and training, you know, medicine is a great example, Piers. You spoke about the NHS, right? Huge number of foreign-born doctors, in the NHS.

26:55Huge number of British trained doctors, the British state is invested in training, going abroad to practice medicine in other countries. These don't seem like sort of intractable problems for us to solve. And I think that the sort of, I commend the sort of the tenor of the debate so far on this programme. I think it's perfectly reasonable to have a conversation about sort of the costs and the benefits, you know, costs and benefits of a million people coming in, costs and benefits of net zero people coming in. There's clearly a middle ground between the two. Both involve trade-offs. Probably at the extreme end of one, you're talking about social cohesion.

27:27At the extreme end of the other, you're talking about some pretty significant macro effects to the economy. There is a balance between those two things that we should strike. But primarily in terms of confronting the far right, absolutely, it's education, it's a strong economy. And in extremists, it's confronting them face-to-face. We could just deal with the problem. I mean, this is the other problem, right? If you didn't have illegal immigration, there wouldn't be any racists getting any support at all, because the British public is overwhelmingly not of that world. Well, that's why it's interesting.

27:53Piers Morgan:Tommy Robinson regularly goes on American airwaves and he sells them a bit of a dummy story about himself. He's like this picked-upon, poor, oppressed guy who's just preaching the truth and so on. There's a lot more complicated than that. But the reason he's getting more and more support from people who I would certainly not categorise as far-right or racist is because he's exposing very loudly genuine problems. I mean, Cenk, this is the thing, isn't it? that you're always going to attract the far right for this stuff, and that's a very unsavoury aspect of it. But I do think that the governments in America and the UK have brought this all on themselves.

28:33Piers Morgan:They've fermented a lot of this anger amongst ordinary people. And what you're seeing now is a lot of ordinary people who are not on the far right or the far left. I know Crobra, this town, well. They're just regular people. Near my village, they want to go to the pub, play a bit of sport at the weekend, you know, have local schools. They all know each other. It's very genteel down there. And suddenly they've got 600 male asylum seekers from all parts of the world. No-one knows much about them. They're very concerned about how they're going to be able to move around. And you don't need many. As Officer Tatum highlighted there, obviously they're not all criminals.

29:13Piers Morgan:From what we know, none of them might be criminally minded. But it wouldn't take much in terms of one or two of those people in there to commit some heinous crime in Krobrough for that to become a real powder keg. And then people would attack the people of Krobrough. And I'd be like, well, hang on. Just hang on a second. You know, this was inflicted on them as a society. And if it blows up in their face in an ugly way, it's going to cause a lot of unrest. Yeah. Yeah. So let me address both sides of that. So, first of all, for the folks who are worried about race and all that, and is it anti-immigrant mentality is by definition racist?

29:54No, because I can give you examples from other countries again. And, for example, in Turkey, they took in a ton of Syrian immigrants and Afghan immigrants because of the wars there. And a lot of the native Turks were pissed. They didn't want it either, right?

30:07Piers Morgan:Well, Germany, Germany, I mean, Germany, it cost Angela Merkel a job. She let a million in, mainly from Syria. And ultimately, that was one of the main reasons she got kicked out. Where I'm from, chips are called crisps, and our chips are actually what Americans call French fries. But that's not really my biggest problem. Have you ever actually read the label on a bag of chips? It sounds like a science experiment. Seed oils, MSG, artificial dyes, mystery ingredients which sound like diseases. It cannot be good for you. Massa chips are the answer. They have just three quality ingredients. organic corn, sea salt, and 100 % grass-fed beef tallow.

30:46Piers Morgan:It's a snack that feels good without the crash and the sluggishness. And if you love Massa, you'll love Vandy Crisps 2. Free ingredients, delicious flavours, Smokehouse BBQ is a personal favourite of mine. Use code PIERS, P-I-E-R-S, for 25 % off your first order at massachips.com or vandycrisps.com. You can also click the link below or scan the QR code and claim this delicious offer. Massa and Vandy, also now available nationwide at Sprout Supermarket. Stop by and pick up a few bags before I buy them all. And look, it's a natural thing that happens that, number one, people are used to their way of life.

31:27And when things change a little bit, they get discomforted by it. So I understand it. It's a natural reaction. And at the same time, especially when your government doesn't deliver for you, as is happening in both Turkey and the UK and America, people get frustrated and go, why doesn't anybody, our government ever represent us? And now we've got these new folks in and they might be getting a nickel and a dime, but it's a nickel and a dime more than I'm getting. So that's why that frustration happens. And I understand. And for the, and I'm an immigrant. And what I would say to the immigrant community is, and most of us are overwhelmingly grateful, right?

32:01And so look, for example, we talk about all the Eastern Europeans that came in the biggest wave of immigration to the UK. OK, my guess is that Constantine's family came from Eastern Europe at some point into the UK. Right. But Constantine is grateful from what I've seen. I'm grateful for America. Right. And I would tell those immigrants, especially in the UK, where they're for some magical reasons, not allowed to work for a year. Go to the local church, go to the local community and volunteer. Say, how can we help? Right. And get to know people and get them to know you so that people are less alarmed.

32:34Now, at the same time, I want to say to the folks who are non-immigrants, don't do the demagoguing. So on crime, for example, here in America, unfortunately, natural-born citizens are twice as likely to commit crime as undocumented immigrants and four times more likely to commit crime than legal immigrants like myself and my family. So that doesn't mean that natural-born Americans are somehow worse. It's just these are all different geopolitical, social, and cultural contexts that leads to those numbers. But are immigrants in the U.S. more likely to do crime? No, they're actually less likely to do crime.

33:09So let's be honest about that and let's be clear about that. We don't need to demagogue over that. And then in terms of what Tatum said earlier, look, there is no amnesty here. There is no plan for amnesty. If there was a plan for amnesty, why didn't Obama do it? Why didn't Biden do it? The last time we had amnesty was actually under Ronald Reagan. Right. No, they didn't, actually, brother. And so the DACA program was the mass deportations. No, no. And so and they don't vote. There's all these demagoguing about, oh, my God, they're all going to vote. They're all coming. No, they don't have citizenship and they can't vote.

33:43So, look, last thing on this is that in terms of how it's going so far in America, you were right in your beginning, Piers. No question that people like the closing of the border and they like kicking out the criminals who are undocumented. And that's super rational. Now almost no one on the left objects to that, right? So the part where we begin to disagree is the mass deportations. Not begin, we definitely disagree. And by the way, their independents are on our side, saying, don't do the mass deportations. They're ugly. They're not the right way to go. As we see with so many immigrants in other countries, as I said before, Canada, Switzerland, etc., it isn't the number of immigrants you have.

34:24It's the system you have. Do you have the right system? Do you assimilate them well? Do they assimilate well? Are they contributing to this society? So while Syrians might be a problem in some perceived ways because of the crowding issues and the economic issues in Germany and in Turkey, Steve Jobs' dad was a Muslim Syrian immigrant. And it led to Steve Jobs, which led to Apple. Elon Musk is an immigrant. So obviously immigrants can make massive, massive contributions. And that is why America is the number one country in the world, because we're the most open immigrants. I mean, I was always a teacher.

34:59But yes, there has to be a right process.

35:00Piers Morgan:Let me just repeat my favourite comment at this stage of these debates, which is that the biggest deporter in American presidential history per year that he was in office was Barack Obama, who deported over three million people in eight years. He was known as a porter-in-chief in Mexico. He was the biggest mass deporter of them all. The only difference is the liberal world didn't care. If I asked any of my liberal friends in the last few years how many people did Obama deport, they had no idea. It never crossed their mind he might be a mass deporter. Everybody in Mexico knew how many he was deporting because it was on an industrial scale.

35:36Piers Morgan:So there's been a lot of hypocrisy politically about this. And I would say in the UK that the cross-party reality is they've all cocked this up, all of them. None of them have worked out how to stop 60 ,000 or so people coming over illegally on the small boats. They've tried everything from threatening to send them to Rwanda to all sorts of different ploys. None of them have worked. We've now got this gigantic backlog, which is ridiculous. Obviously, a lot of the people claiming asylum are not actually asylum seekers. We know that. Most of them are young male economic migrants trying it on. But, you know, as obviously Ronald Reagan said so rightly, if you don't have a border, you don't have a country.

36:18Piers Morgan:That's the whole point of a border is to protect your border so you are a country. And I do think one of the issues we haven't really touched on, But if you look at Europe, for example, in the last decade, because of various wars led by Syria and others, the number of people that have come across the European continent has been, I think, 7, 8 million was the last number I read in just a few years. It's an enormous number of people. You've not really seen this since the end of the Second World War. And that has, and this is the other part of the debate I think we should just touch on, that has a real-time sea change effect on the social fabric of a country, right?

37:02Piers Morgan:So if you look at someone like the UK, for example, if you look at the demographic of what we were like back in the start of last century, predominantly white Christian country, vast majority of people, Now it's a far less white country, by comparison. It's a far less Christian country. A lot of that down to actually people not having any religious beliefs. But also we have a lot of Muslims in the UK, 4 million, about the same as they have in America. In America, you have about the same number of Jews, for example. In the UK, we have just 250 ,000 Jews, which is why I think there's been more of a flashpoint between the Muslim community and the Jewish community, because the Muslim community outnumbers the Jewish community many, many times, comparative to America.

37:48Piers Morgan:Now, the point of saying this is just that these are statistical facts. And I was having a debate with Tucker Carlson, which is going on his show later today, in which we were talking about it. He thinks this is a really bad thing. I was defending it, saying the UK in particular, like America, has always been an extraordinary melting pot of cultures and face and skin colours and everything else. And I like that. You know, I live in a high street in West London. I walk down, pretty much every store, every service place, every hotel, every restaurant has a multicultural staff. I like it. I've got no problem with it.

38:25Piers Morgan:But are we creating a problem in 20 years' time if we carry on down this route? Does it matter? You know, do you stop being England, for example? It's just what Tucker Carlson was arguing. I argue strenuously, no, we don't. But there's no doubt the country will look very different in 50 years' time to what it did 50 years ago. Yeah, Pierce, I think there's a big difference, and we've got to delineate between the two. There's a difference between immigration and illegal immigration. You know, people that are coming out to our country illegally are committing a crime. If you come into our country and you sneak past the port of entry and you go up under a fence, you committed a crime.

39:06You should be prosecuted for that crime. The fact that we let it go on so long is the reason why it's been exacerbated. And if a person comes into this country and they seek asylum and they lied or they didn't show up to court, they should be deported. That's according to the law that we have on the books. And let's go beyond that. I do push back on this idea that because America is less white, somehow it's going to be less American. America is not a race. It's an idea.

39:31Piers Morgan:See, that's what I believe, just to be clear. But Tucker Carlson and people like him, they get very nationalistic about this, right? And they say that culturally, if you invite too many people from other cultures into your country, that you lose your own identity and culture as a country. What do you say to that argument? Well, Pierce, I think that sane people understand that it's not about color. It's about assimilation. There is no difference between an American that is black and American that is white because we both believe in American values. What happens is when you start getting people into this country that do not make a vow to assimilate to American values and our constitution and our way of life, that's where the problem happens.

40:17And unfortunately, one of the closest countries to us is Mexico and South America. And so a lot of people are coming over that just so happen to be of that demographic, and they're not abiding by the American values. And that's why you see a color change. But if everybody that we allow to come over here, like many immigrants that have come over here and that have contributed tremendously to the success of America, Elon Musk being one of them and a lot of others, because they do what? Assimilate. They believe in American values. They believe in the capitalism. They're not coming over here to be socialist and communist.

40:50They're not coming over here to weaponize empathy, to try to create the world to be a new way of life. Like we see these minded congressmen or congresswomen that have literally said that they want to rewrite American values. They want to get rid of the Constitution. I mean, these things are an apparel or negative to the American culture.

41:11Piers Morgan:I mean, the Constitution, the Constitution, it's interesting as we approach Thanksgiving, but the Constitution, you know, I think there's often a misunderstanding about it. It's not some sacrosanct, untouchable document. There are 27 amendments to the Constitution. It's been amended many times. There's no reason. In fact, the founding fathers made it crystal clear it was a document for the people, right? And they imply there should be natural evolution, that the people of the moment should determine the way the country is run. And I do feel sometimes that some Americans get very, like, strict about the absolute tiny wording of the Constitution to explain and justify whatever it is they want to do without any sense it can ever evolve.

41:56Piers Morgan:I mean, all documents like that should be living documents, shouldn't they? Pierce, that could be true. But we have never gotten rid of the Constitution. We've made amendments to the Constitution. That means we've improved upon. We don't get rid of it. And I think it's right. Of course, the 13th Amendment, the 14th amendment, the 15th amendment, were all valuable amendments, right? To eliminate slavery, to get, and actually for the citizenship of black people. It wasn't the anchor baby stuff that they're doing today. It was actually the citizenship of black people and the right for black people to vote.

42:27So the amendments, as we grow and evolve as a nation and we, you know what I'm saying, we fulfill the promises that our founding fathers had in their intent with the document, is something that I support. But to say we need to rewrite the whole thing, we need to eliminate I don't mean that. I don't mean that.

42:43Piers Morgan:No, no, I'm not saying you do, Peter. I do think there's a good argument. Well, I do think there's a good argument. There's people in our country that feel that way. No, I don't understand that at all, but I do think the founding fathers made it clear that Americans in any given moment, they could evolve the Constitution, hence the fact there have been 27 amendments. In other words, nothing should stay still forever. If the country changes, if the way of life changes, they wanted the ethos of the Constitution to continue, but the exact way it gets framed and how it is utilized could evolve. Hence the amendments.

43:15There's a democratic way of doing that, though, and this is kind of the point in terms of everything that we've been discussing in this conversation, right? The way you amend the US Constitution is by having a democratic process to do that. Illegal immigration, in the way that we've been talking about it today, as I made the point earlier, is something nobody voted for. Nobody voted to have an open border. Nobody voted. And you've got to understand what has happened in this country in the time that I've lived here. I came here 1996. 55 ,000 people came here net legally in 1996. Today, the number of people coming here illegally is greater than that.

43:56And nobody, nobody ever voted for this. And the number coming in legally

44:02Piers Morgan:under the Labour budget announced today is predicted for the rest of their tenure, which is four more years, to average about 360 ,000 a year, I think, and actually goes up in the next few years. So massively different to what it was like when you first came. Because, to say, on that wider point that Tucker Carlson and many like him have started talking about, which is countries losing their identity culturally, what do you think about that? I think that America is unique in that way in that it seems to me as a visitor, and, look, it's up to Americans to decide how they see their country, of course, but as someone who loves the country and visits there frequently and spends a lot of time there.

44:38I do think the idea that America is an idea seems to me to be how Americans behave. I think that is not true in Europe. I think that European countries do have a national identity, a cultural identity, a religious identity. And I think that if Britain was filled with people who were of a completely different religion and a completely different ethnic background, I don't think it would be England and Britain in the way that it has been in history. So I think that doesn't necessarily preclude us from welcoming people in and assimilating them into our country. And that has been happening for decades and even centuries.

45:14But I think Brandon is right. The assimilation is the point. If you want to come to our country, you want to apply for a visa, you want to follow the rules, you want to adopt our culture, you want to teach your children to love this country, to speak English, to integrate, to contribute. As Cenk was saying, you know, go out and actually contribute to the country you've just arrived in. That's great. But that is not what we have in Europe. We have large ghettos of non-integrating populations who do not want to participate, who do not want to contribute, who do not want to speak our language. And look, I lived in Tower Hamlets for some time.

45:48I went to the doctor's surgery. The leaflet is in 100 languages. I don't understand why. This is an English-speaking country, and you either speak English or you find the country with a language you prefer. Paddy cake, paddy cake, baker's meal. If your child has moderate to severe eczema that's not well controlled with prescription topicals, their itchy skin can feel uncomfortable when playing with others. Dupixent, dupilumab, helps kids as young as six months stay ahead of their eczema. So they can have clearer skin and noticeably less itch. Dupixent helps them heal their skin from within, and it's not a cream, steroid, or immunosuppressant.

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46:50Dupixent helps your child feel the heel. Ask your child's eczema specialist. Visit dupixent.com or call 1-844-DUPIXENT. Olly? Well, unlike Constantine, I think people that speak other languages are also entitled to health care. I would just add... I didn't say that they're not entitled to health care. I said they should learn English if they want to live there. Please, I'd like to speak. So I think this idea that your sort of culture, your national identity, can potentially be diluted by people of a different skin tone or indeed religious background is a pretty pathetic argument. It's a patriotism that's grounded in weakness and fragility.

47:22My patriotism is grounded in strength. I believe the ideas of English national identity, British national identity are pretty strong, and I'm not that worried about people that come to the UK with a different idea of what that could be, coming over here and diluting it. From Magna Carta through to now, a sense of fair play unless the English are invading your country. I think we've got a pretty good, solid idea of what English values and identity are. What are they? I just said. What are English values? A sense of civil liberty, a pride and a sense of fair play. So people who believe in Sharia law, which a large number of the Muslim community in this country do believe in and want to impose, do they believe in civil liberty?

48:01I would say the people who want to impose Sharia law, no. So do they comply with English values or British values, as you define them? No, I think if you want to come over and, you know, sort of overhaul the system of government in Britain, I think there's a pretty valid argument for us to say that you're probably not welcome in the country. So what should we do? Should we deport you for having a disagreement about civil liberty? If you're an insurrectionist, if you're literally saying that we should introduce corporal and capital punishment in Britain, yeah, that's a conflict. What if you just want to vote for it?

48:24You know, that 33 % of the Muslim community, according to some estimates, believe in Sharia law, one that Sharia law in Britain. Should they be able to elect people who advocate for that? Constantine, you keep asking me the same question. That's a different question. I'm going to keep giving you the same answer. My idea of what... No, what is the answer? I've just told you... Should we deport people who want Sharia law? That's what I'm asking. If you want to overthrow the system of government, I impose Sharia law instead of secular democracy. Yes, I have a ginormous problem with that. Additionally, I have a ginormous problem with the British head of state being a religious figure in King Charles.

48:56I have a ginormous problem with a permanent fixture in our legislature being religious representatives. There are only two countries in the world where that's the case. One is the UK, the other is Iran. You know, I have problems with both of those things. I want us to live in a secular democracy. What happens between you and the man that you think exists in the sky is your business.

49:14Piers Morgan:Still, the vast majority of people in the UK identify as Christian, just under 50%. The next highest, in terms of faith, is actually non-believers completely, about 35%, I think. And then you're down to, like, sort of 5 % Muslim and then down to the other religions. So, you know, it's still a predominantly Christian... Of those who have a faith, we are predominantly a Christian country. So there shouldn't be intrinsically, by that criteria... But as much as that... Too much of an issue of the head of the church being the king. It's not just that. Just walk around London. The entire architecture of this city is Christian in its every definition.

49:53Everything about this country has roots in Christianity. Now, that is not to say that everybody must be Christian. And I certainly haven't been Christian for most of my life, and I don't even know if I'm Christian now. My point is, even when I was an atheist, I still thought it was a Christian country, because it is. Because that's a fact, because you can see it with your own eyes. So I don't understand the squeamishness about saying it is a Christian country. And in my view, it should remain so. It's called the Enlightenment. I'm a fan of secular liberal democracy.

50:23Piers Morgan:Well, as we approach Thanksgiving, we've got to wrap things up. But Cenk and Brandon, you're over there in America. I just feel like the one thing you could do with immigration in the United States is have a massively higher influx of British people. Because ultimately, you all speak English over there. You all are jealous of our accents. And if it hadn't been for mad King George, who was useless, then we would still have a monarchy in America and we could well have King Pears. And I think that would enrich your society immeasurably. OK. That was designed to achieve the unthinkable of bringing Trent Yuga and all of the time together.

51:04In silence. OK. Well, Pears, don't turn me anti-immigrant by threatening us with more British folks. Look, I do want to say the last couple of things really quick. So look, America is different than the other countries. I get it if France or Germany or even Britain says, hey, we've got to determine what it means to be French, what it means to be German. But in America, as we all agree, America is an idea. It's not a race, a nationality, ethnicity, or religion, right? But at the same time, it's fair to ask people to buy into that idea. We all agree, of course, the Constitution can be and should be amended from time to time.

51:43In fact, we should get money out of politics, and the best way to do that is an amendment. But if somebody comes over here and says, I just don't even believe in your Constitution, well, it's okay to say that, no, well, then this is not the country for you. But that almost never happens, guys. And so for the folks who say, well, how about Sharia law, et cetera, I interviewed Pastor Wilson, who's a well-known Christian nationalist. So he wants to turn America into something it isn't today. He wants it to be ruled by a religion. And when we say Christian nation, if you say America is majority Christian, that's obviously true, right?

52:18If you say America should be ruled by Christianity, that's a different comment, right? Then if you mean that by Christian nation, then I don't agree at all, right? But by the way, Pastor Wilson is a Christian nationalist, which is not what we are here in America. But I would say to that, so what? so a guy believes in Sharia law and a guy believes in Christian nationalism and by the way some people believe in white nationalism right? I think the issue

52:45Piers Morgan:I think the issue on Sharia law is you can't have a rival set of laws operating within a country that has its own laws I don't think right? If you try to go to the Middle East and have your own courts running your own kind of legal system they wouldn't tolerate it and we should have the same Can we admit that illegal immigration is not adhering to our laws and the founding of our country? 100%. You come here illegally, you are not abiding. 100%. And by the way, as I always say, I do things the legal way to live and work a lot of the time in America. It is painstaking. It involves a lot of form filling, paying lawyers, all the rest of it, then immigration interviews and so on.

53:28Piers Morgan:and then hopefully you get your visa and you're allowed in legally for another two, three years, whatever it may be. And so it pisses me off when people just waltz in over the border illegally. And that's why I think in the end Trump, he won for a few reasons. I think, you know, the economy certainly and the woke stuff definitely. But immigration was a massive, massive part of it. That's why he had the younger Latino vote. I mean, more Latinos voted for Trump than voted for Kamala Harris. Pretty well, I mean, none of us could have predicted that. But one of the reasons was I think a lot of those Latinos get pissed off with people just gaming the system and coming in illegally.

54:01Piers Morgan:So I think, look, unusually, this panel has been one of the more civilised debates that's probably ever been heard about this issue, which is a really good thing because it means we've got to a place where we can have a rational debate about it all and hopefully get to rational solutions without everyone screaming racist at each other or fascist or Nazi or whatever else it may be. So I'd like to congratulate my panel on really... We've reached a great point between us. Thank you. Well, thanks for having us, Piers. Can I just make one very quick point on this healthy solutions thing? The citizens of Krobera, they've organised a group called Krobera Shield.

54:36They've raised a lot of money. They've raised even more money since our documentary came out. I'd encourage everybody to go and donate and support their attempt to put a judicial read to the government because what that will do is it will create more difficulties. And that really is what needs to happen. The government has to be told this isn't going to happen. So Krobera Shield, go over there and donate.

54:53Piers Morgan:And I would endorse that despite the fact that for many years, 20 years, as a cricketer in East Sussex, Krober were the sworn enemy of my village and I would do everything in my power to ruin their lives on a cricket field. So, despite that, I'm prepared to join. I support them. I understand completely. How much are you donating, Pez? I'll make a donation in private as usual, but I will donate. Because a lot of people in Krober have asked me to as well. So I shall do that. Guys, thank you all very much. Much appreciated. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me.

55:27Piers Morgan:If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent Uncensored Media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.

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