“Less Popular Than Chlamydia!” Is MAGA Over? Plus Dr Phil On Lindsay Clancy Trial

21:14Like I said that Dan Blazerian had no chance of winning Congress. I did think Massey had a chance of squeaking by, but I also said that, yeah, you got 30 plus million dollars from the Israel lobby coming in. That is awfully difficult. However, Will, I will point out that on this very - One second. Okay, cool, cool. Great point. Anyway, I will say that in terms of getting things wrong, you did say back on this show when me and you were debating, I believe in April, that you would be shocked if the Iranian regime was still standing in a month. So now you're coming back here. You don't even acknowledge that anymore.

21:47So, no, if you weren't wrong about everything, maybe Donald Trump wouldn't have destroyed his entire coalition, but you were completely wrong, and you're also wrong about the midterms, which you guys are going down for. You guys sound like the Biden surrogates. You sound like the Biden surrogates talking about how the economy is so good and regular people just don't know about it Because you can pull one number or another one out of your ass. The Naval Blockade is locked down. We're winning your run. Think about this, Pierce. Here, Pierce. Are we doing the mute thing, or can we do? Yeah, yeah.

22:14Don't talk at each other, because actually people can't hear when you do. I sat here and listened to everybody else talk. Yeah, it's fine. I mean, think about what nonsense it is, dude. Ben Ferguson, the metric that he used, Pierce, think about how they try to talk past you. He said most people who voted for Donald Trump still don't regret voting for Donald Trump. But, Pierce, so you could have authority? So if you were to get, if Donald Trump were to get 30 million less votes this time, you could still say most people who voted for him didn't vote. That's not the metric. The metric is over whether he took his winning coalition and completely destroyed it.

22:51And to sit here and say, oh, Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson and Megyn Kelly and Alex Jones, these are just a few people over here in a group. Yeah, the group is the top five biggest shows in this field, maybe putting Pierce in there too, where the show is dominated by people destroying this war. Dude, there were six war aims for this war when you set out. Last time I talked to Will, he said the regime was still about to fall. You haven't achieved a single one of them. Hundreds of billions of dollars lost. Thousands of people, including Americans and little children, dead over this thing. And you guys sit here and go, eh, no big deal.

23:31That's all you got. Let Ben focus and respond to that. Yeah, a couple of things here. One, if you look at the polling numbers of the president of the United States of America among Republicans, which is MAGA, he still has an overwhelming approval number. Number two, Americans do know what's going on with the economy. Look at the job numbers. They were 3x what they were expecting in August. You have low unemployment. You have inflation under 4%. And you have a war going on. I understand that you guys, it's easy to sell doom and gloom. I go to Election Day... I thought it wasn't a war, Ben. Hang on, Ben.

24:04I thought it wasn't a war. Call it whatever you want to call it. What are you calling it? You can say war, not war. Hang on, what are you calling it? Hang on. I'm going back to the minds of American voters.

24:13Piers Morgan:It's very significant to hear... Hang on. I absolutely think it's a war there. Hang on, Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben. I've called it war the whole time, Piers. Ben, Ben, it's very significant to hear a Republican and a MAGA supporter describe it as a war, because we've been repeatedly reassured it is not a war. So which is it? I've called a war since the very beginning. I've had no problem calling a war. I've called a war since day one. If you're dropping bombs and they're responding, it's a war. Okay? Even when we went after their nuclear sites, I believe that is an act of war, in my opinion. So should Donald Trump be calling it a war now?

24:45It's semantics. I don't give a shit. Pretty important semantics.

24:49Piers Morgan:Because if it's a war... You guys are obsessed with this. I'm more obsessed with stopping someone from getting a nuclear weapon. If it's a war, here's the difference. If it is a war and the President of the United States says it's a war, then he has to get congressional approval for every aspect of that war. If it's not a war, he doesn't. Is troops on the ground invading a country? Are we invading a country? No. If you ask people that are at the Pentagon, whether it's Obama or Biden or Clinton or Al Gore, I don't care who you ask, they would tell you that a war is when you're invading a nation, when you have troops on the ground, and there are different things.

25:23By the way, if you don't like my definition, go yell at Bill Clinton for Kosovo, okay? Like in Bosnia. Like there's multiple people that can say you can play semantics on this. No, I agree. My definition of war is pretty, is clear. If you're shooting at something and they're shooting back, is it a limited war? I think it's a limited war. Is it an all out ground invasion? No. But again, I go back to the Pentagon's decision on this. What war people say a war is, it is a different definition of mine. I'm not a commander, I'm not a general. I don't wear stripes on shoulders, okay? So that's their decision.

25:52I'm fine with that. But I go back to the core here. When you go into Election Day this year, this election is going to be real simple. Do you want the radical democratic socialist agenda? Do you want the Al-Sayed? Do you want the out-of-control crime in New York City? Do you want that? Or do you want what Donald Trump said he was going to give you overall? Not all of it's been perfect, but it is a secure border. It is good jobs, manufacturing coming back, America first policies in general. And if you ask conservative voters, by the way, this is a president that has so much muscle, he got rid of four incumbents that were Republicans to get better Republicans there in the Senate.

26:29That is ballsy on a level that most presidents never even remotely touch. They always go with the incumbent. They look the other way. They hold their nose, even if that person's screwing them on most votes like the Save America Act, simple things like that. So when you go to Election Day, I do not see doom and gloom based on the data that I'm seeing, based on him in the primaries. Is Donald Trump on the ballot? No, I actually wish he was, because I think we'd have a better chance of keeping the Senate in the House if he was on the ballot. He's not on the ballot. He's going to try to put himself on the ballot with the midterms next week in Dallas with a convention saying, if you want what I am, you've got to go vote and you've got to vote for these people, because otherwise the entire agenda you wanted will disappear because Democrats will be in charge.

27:11He's trying to put himself on the ballot.

27:13Piers Morgan:OK, Jojo, it seems to me that the issue here, which may prevent a clean sweep of the Democrats, is there's a similar kind of split in the Democrat movement, which is between the moderates and the Democratic socialists, right? And it's as big a split, I would argue, ideologically, as the one you're seeing in the conservative right movement in America. You know, what happens if, actually, when it comes to it, people look at the Democratic Party and think, well, they're all a bunch of real hard-left socialists because they look at it and see Mandani, they see El Saeed, they see AOC, they think they're the front people now for the party.

27:54Piers Morgan:They're the ones getting all the oxygen and media attention and they're thinking, I don't feel comfortable with that, right? I mean, there is a danger that this democratic socialist revolution actually ends up stopping the Democrats getting the big win that they probably should have. Well, I think it comes down to, you know, running hypotheticals against reality, because that's what we're talking about here, because we have the reality of what we've been enduring since Donald Trump returned to office. We have the reality of the broken promises. We have the reality of our economy. We have the reality of this war that isn't a war.

28:28And by the way, Ben, it isn't semantics to the women and family members. There's a widow who lost her husband in the war and isn't getting the benefits because she was told that it wasn't officially a war. And so, therefore, she wasn't due those benefits. So it's not semantics to the families of the fallen, the 18 heroes that Donald Trump sent to their deaths and called just the other day small potatoes. That's not semantics to those people. It's not semantics to the schoolchildren who were killed. That's not what he said about 18 people who died. That's a lie. That's a lie. He did not talk about 18 people who died.

29:03that lost their lives and say it was small potatoes. I would like it if you would just stop interrupting me. You deserve the mute button. Piers, I was answering the question, and thank you, Ben, for being quiet now. I'm glad you're not in charge. The hypotheticals of what we would be looking at, by the way, look at New York City. New York City is not some dystopian hellscape at the moment. It's not crime run amok under Mondani. In fact, to the opposite. Dave, when's the last time you were in New York? Thanks to Donald Trump, right. I was there last weekend. There's plenty of stuff for us to talk about that we are enduring as a country right now.

29:43Higher prices, higher gas prices, higher electricity prices, a foreign entanglement seven months, seven months into this. Everything, health care is more expensive. Inflation is going up. Consumer spending is going down. We have plenty of things that we can talk about in reality, as opposed to fear-mongering hypotheticals about what this country would look like when it's not going well right now for anybody but the Epstein class. That's what people should be focused on. Just to be clear... And I don't do the friendly fire against the other factions in my party.

30:16Piers Morgan:Just to be clear, hang on, Will, we've checked the potatoes quote. OK, so... Drink, everybody drink. Donald Trump said, I call it a military conflict. because it's small potatoes for us. It's not a big thing. When pressed by Rachel Scott of ABC News about the record-setting deployments of certain service members as part of this, the president lashed out repeatedly, asking, how long were we in Vietnam? Which is a kind of, I would say, irrelevant distraction. He didn't say it was about the people that died. No, no, he didn't. That's why I wanted to clarify. She got out lied. That's why I wanted to clarify.

30:49Just call it a lie, though. It's been a lie, it's been a lie. I'm sorry, Piers, that's one part of that interview.

30:54Piers Morgan:No, Will, it is true he didn't specifically say that about people who died. That is true. No, he folks. However, dismissing this war in Iran as just small potatoes, given actually what's happened in the last six months, I think he's equally disingenuous. Well, I want to point out something that Jojo from Jers just did. You notice she got on her eye horse about the 18 fallen service members, but then the moment we bring up Hassan Piker, who said America deserved 9-11, who cheered on Hezbollah and the Houthis, you suddenly are like, oh, take another drink. He didn't kill them. He didn't send them to their deaths.

31:25Pick one. You need to either pick that you want to be on the side of America or on the side of an 18-year-old. Pick one. The commander-in-chief of the United States of America didn't sign the letters that sent them to their deaths. Wait, what even happened here with the mute buttons? He's a fucking streamer, dude. He's a fucking streamer. Donald Trump is the commander-in-chief of the United States of America. He's not a streamer. We're not talking about Hassan Piker. I know you want to talk about Hassan Piker, but he's not in charge. Guess what? He didn't send them to their deaths. Donald Trump did, and he owes them more than comparing them to Vietnam.

31:53If you can't admit that, then I don't know what kind of a patriot you think you are, that you can reduce their deaths and their sacrifices to a talking point about a streamer. Do you agree Americans deserve 9-11? Do you think Americans deserve 9-11, yes or no? Do I? Are you fucking kidding me? I'm sorry, Piers. I knew you before 9-11. Are you kidding me? You know what I know? You know what I know? Donald Trump is lying about going down to ground zero and saying he helped you move a problem. He lied about being able to see the second plane hit. He lied about giving money to the families. He is using 9-11 to make it about himself and false valor.

32:30You want to talk about 9-11? Better than putting up twin towers in the background and cheering on the terrorists. I lived near the firehouses where 10 of those firemen were killed on that day. Did we deserve 9-11? Then why are you not being given enough to us? You want to talk about someone who disgraces the memories? Are there people who died at 9-11? You look at Donald Trump.

32:48Piers Morgan:That's what you do. You look at Donald Trump, who's going to go to the Pentagon on 9-11 and learn about picking up rubble ground zero without looking through... Let's just calm things down a little bit, please. Will Chamberlain, looking at the bigger picture here, it'll be a very significant midterm election for a number of reasons, but one of which would be the signal it sends about what may then happen in 2028, the general election. Polymarket has over$700 million now in the presidential election winner market. It's got J.D. Vance in the lead at 28%. It's been consistently in the lead. AOC next on 13%.

33:26Piers Morgan:Jon Ossoff behind her on 12%. And Marco Rubio on 9%. And I think Tucker Carlson pops in at a lower level as well. You know, the consequences of this midterm election could be very, very big for a number of people, but particularly for any of the candidates here, right? Possibly, but I doubt it. I mean, usually the first midterm after a presidential is not good for the president's party, but oftentimes they recover in the following presidential election. I mean, that happened to Obama. Like, he took big losses in 2010 and then won in 2012. So I think it's really going to come down to how things are doing, again, on the core issues that matter to people, right?

34:06Economy, immigration, and what kind of, you know, messages coming out of the Democratic Party, right? The Democrat Party, as we've just demonstrated, has this huge split between its DSA wing and its establishment wing. It's really going to be... A lot's going to determine, you know, kind of fall on whether or not which side of those... which side of that internal split wins.

34:23Piers Morgan:OK. Ben Ferguson's out to go. He actually stayed a few minutes longer than he said he could, so he's gone to do his own stuff. Dave Smith, I'm going to interview Danny Danon, who's obviously the Israeli ambassador to the UN. A very significant moment, I felt, came over the weekend where Mike Huckabee, the American ambassador to Israel, actually described Israeli settlers and what they're doing on the West Bank as terrorists. Let's take a listen. We heard about the challenges that they face living in their own homes, on their own property, some of the intimidation that is being carried out by people that I have characterised as being terrorists.

35:04I know that's an uncomfortable word for some people. There are limitations in what a U.S. embassy can do in another country. We cannot investigate. We don't have that power or authority. We cannot adjudicate. We don't have that power or authority. But we can influence, and we can call attention. There may be a few hundred that are responsible, but that's a few hundred too many. And one of the messages that we have been sending and we will continue to send is that people in these communities have a right

35:43Piers Morgan:to live with a level of security and safety and that the government has a responsibility to make sure that that happens. And D. Smith, I thought that was pretty significant, that you had someone like Mike Huckabee He's been steadfastly loyal to Israel throughout this whole period. And now he's describing the actions of some Israelis as terrorism. What did you make of that? Well, I agree with you. I thought it was a very interesting moment. And, you know, if I'm being complete, look, I mean, to your point, not just loyal to Israel. I think that's such an understatement with a guy like Mike Huckabee.

36:23But in his own words, really, right, by his own religious fundamentalism, believes that it is the will of God that this humanly government not only exists, but perhaps even expand. And I mean, look, again, you can listen to him say it himself. I would think that would be something that would disqualify anyone on this side of the Enlightenment from being in a position of political power there. And I'm shocked, honestly, Pierce, as I've expressed many times over the last few years on your show, I'm just shocked that there hasn't been more of this already, if for nothing else, just purely for PR.

37:00You know, just purely for PR, it would be helpful, you know, to have Mike Huckabee up there and at least gain a little bit of credibility. Like, no, I won't just go along with them on everything. I have been so shocked that as we've kind of in a weird way, Pierce, me and you together, have seen support for Israel just absolutely crater over the last three years, that there have not been more in the pro-Israel side who wouldn't just go like, yeah, okay, maybe it is a little bit messed up what these settlers are doing here. You know what, they have a point. Instead of just screeching like hysterical leftists, that you're a bigot, you're a racist, you must love Hamas, as me and you have heard so many times.

37:40So I give some degree of credit to Mike Huckabee for saying this out loud. But at the same time, Pierce, I mean, what a minimal standard that someone is finally acknowledging this. Dude, this conversation isn't even about Israel proper. this is about the last little bit of historic Palestine, not even the last 22 percent, because Gaza's already been destroyed. The last like, you know, 16 percent or whatever you're talking about here. And the poor Palestinians there can't even live without being constantly harassed. And so, look, credit for him saying this. But at the same time, Pierce, I don't think it's unreasonable for someone in my position to say, of all the you just have no credibility in the world, that if this is a problem, then Mike Huckabee's only response here should be to resign his post and let somebody with an ounce of credibility take it over where, yeah, you know, Pierce, like he can say there's only so much an embassy can do, but that's kind of true in a vacuum.

38:36It's a little bit different when it is a client state completely dependent on us for every single one of these military actions and their very own survival in many ways. So like, yeah, actually there is a lot of political influence that America could push on Israel. and for whatever reason, we never seem to.

38:52Piers Morgan:Will Chamberlain, it seems to me what this has done, and you can tell by the panicky reaction of many on the pro-Israeli side in trying to rein back what Huckabee said and give it, as they see it, as more clarity, blah, blah, blah, that once that terrorism word is out from the lips of the American ambassador to Israel, that's a big threshold that's been crossed because now all the guests that come on here who say to me, you know, you keep calling Hamas terrorists, but what about what the Israelis are doing? Now you have a senior American official who's saying it because he's heard from Americans in the region who've been the victims of this terrorism.

39:36Piers Morgan:He's now using the terrorist label to describe Israelis. It's a big moment. It's going to come back and be used again and again and again as a stick of criticism. I mean, I'm not sure how big the import is and how broad it will be in that sense, but I do think it's a good thing. I mean, I think that in many ways, you know, the Israelis have gotten away a little bit with being able to point at the other people in their region and be, well, look at what they're doing, look at what they're doing, and then kind of sweep this, the problem with some settler terrorism under the rug. And so I think it's a good thing.

40:09I think, I mean, honestly, I think the Israeli government, especially now that things have settled down for them a little bit, they need to start focusing a little more on dealing with these internal problems. and I suspect they will.

40:19Piers Morgan:I mean, terrorism is not just a little internal problem, is it? Well, I mean, I'm talking about internal in the sense of it's a problem... No, I get it, but it's interesting... Right, but Jojo, let me bring you in here. I mean, it's interesting to me that Huckabee's only said this in relation to Americans living in the region, right? So, obviously, many people will say, well, what about innocent people living in Gaza, not members of Hamas or supporters of Hamas, but the many innocent people who've been, in their eyes, terrorised by Israeli forces, for example. You know, are we going to see now a much wider use of the word terrorism because Mike Huckabee has used the word?

41:01I think they're going to try and split those hairs that way, but it's true that it was in relationship to the Americans there. I think that that's the way he's going to argue why he said this, but I think that it's an accurate label. I mean, I think it's gotten a lot of a lot more attention recently based on attacks on reporters, et cetera, that we've seen on the news. And I think that that kind of pressure to Dave's point and Dave, I can't believe I've said to Dave's point several times. But the last two times we've been on the show together, you've said things that I agreed with, which, you know, not sure.

41:35Piers Morgan:I think we all feel uncomfortable about this. I'm like the. You're supposed to be all uncomfortable about that safe. I don't love it, though. Hey, nothing wrong with a little strange every now and then. But my point is, you know, I don't think this is some opening of the door to that word being used more broadly as it pertains to the people of Gaza and Palestine as a whole. But I do think that it's interesting because it is the correct label. And I think that the people who agree with that should be using that and what he said to make the point more broadly that it shouldn't just be about whether or not this is related to Americans.

42:11It should be a human issue, not an American-specific issue. Right. And, Pierce, could I add just very quickly in there that there's – because I did have this big debate with Ben. Unfortunately, he had to leave about using the term terrorist when describing U.S. military actions or IDF actions. But I do think it's interesting just that Will kind of made the point there at the end, and I think this sums up so much of what so many of us have been talking about over the last three years. When it's settler terrorism, when it's a settler dispute, they go, hey, this is an internal domestic problem. This is a problem within Israeli sovereignty.

42:44Like, okay, they don't say that about October 7th. They don't say that about any type of terrorism that comes in from those. They treat that like a military problem. And so you don't get a day in court. This is why so many of us called it a genocide. You don't get to destroy all of Gaza when you've been controlling Gaza since 1967. These people are, as Will just admitted, your people living under your control. That's what puts you in Stalin-Mao-Hitler territory when you start slaughtering all of your own people. It's just kind of different than a war with a foreign country.

43:15Piers Morgan:OK. You claim it when it's beneficial to you. I'm going to have to leave you there. We have Danny done on waiting. So I thank you all very much indeed for the interesting debate. Thank you very much. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Well, in a hugely significant intervention this weekend, as I was saying, the US ambassador to Israel, Mike Huckabee, said that some Israeli settlers are guilty of terrorism in the West Bank. Joining me now is Danny Danon, the Israeli ambassador to the UN. Danny Danon, welcome back to Uncensored. Thank you for having me, Peel. So Mike Huckabee has categorised the behaviour of some Israeli settlers in the West Bank as being terrorists after hearing from Americans living in the region.

43:53Piers Morgan:What's your response to that? Ambassador Huckabee is a great friend of Israel, and if you pay attention to what he said, he actually spoke about few dozens who commit those horrible crimes. And he actually said that you should not label the entire community in Judea and Samaria, more than half a million people committing those crimes. It's like you taking the entire city of Liverpool and you label the entire community as being criminals. We condemn those criminal acts, period. The president, the prime minister, we take actions, we arrest them, we indict them, and we are doing more. But do you agree?

44:31Do you agree they are terrorists? No, I do not agree that they are terrorists, and I will tell you why. Because when you speak about terrorist activities, you have to look for the pattern. You have to look for the budget and the ideology behind it. Here you have a case of a few dozens of criminals. Nobody is behind them. Nobody is organizing them. We have to put them behind bars, and we are doing that. But if you compare it to the Hamas terrorism, for example, when you have a radical jihadic ideology with an organisation, with structure, funding, that's terrorism. It is not the same...

45:09Piers Morgan:So Mike Huckabee is wrong when he uses the word terrorist. I think, you know, even at the UN, many times I tell my colleagues, how can you call it settler terrorism? or you cannot use that term, because basically by doing so, you are labelling the entire community. So why is the American ambassador to Israel, a great friend of Israel, as you said, why is he using that term? Well, you know, as I said earlier, Ambassador Huckabee is a great friend of Israel. I know him for many years. He actually supports the community in Judea. He's wrong, is he? And like myself, those criminal acts are not supporting the community.

45:48But is he wrong? I think you should not use the word terrorists when you speak about those criminal acts.

45:56Piers Morgan:So just to be clear, Mike Huckabee is wrong when he says they're terrorists. Well, I'm answering you. I would not refer to them as terrorists. I don't accept the term settler terrorism. It is not acceptable because it is not the case. What about if they're actually committing acts of terrorism against Palestinian families? What if they're attacking them, in some cases killing them, setting fire to their homes, seizing their property? What else do you call it if it's not terrorism? Well, let's look at the facts. And, you know, I always come prepared to your interviews. It is more dangerous to be a Jew living in Judea and Samaria than a Palestinian.

46:38But in your show and in any other show, nobody speaks about the violence against the Jewish communities. The focus is only on the criminal acts of the Jewish communities, of those dozens of criminals. And let me give you the numbers. On the month of July 2026, there were 331 Palestinian attacks against Jews in Judea and Samaria. And at that same month, 160 attacks of the Jews against Palestinians. Now, we condemn all of them, and we don't want to see them happening. But you know, the fact that we are talking only about the attacks of Jews against Arabs, I raise the question, why is that? Why you never speak about...

47:25Piers Morgan:Would you describe what the Palestinians in those cases are doing as acts of terrorism?

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48:14You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with EpGlis. Before starting EpGlis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Paid partnership with Lilly. Respect your time. Ask your doctor about EpGlis and visit epglis.com or call 1-800-LILLY-RX or 1-800-545-5979. If it's organized like Hamas, it is.

48:36Piers Morgan:You see, there's a problem I have, you see, Danny Denon, because you're quick to label what the Palestinians are doing there as terrorism. You have no qualms in doing that. And when you say it's not organised, of course what these Israeli settlers are doing is organised. It has the implicit and public approval of senior members of the Israeli government like Ben Gavir and Smodrich. They actively encourage them. There is widespread evidence that the IDF turned a blind eye to a lot of this violence because they're also part of this, that there is a desire by members of the Israeli government to take the whole of the West Bank if they can get away with it.

49:16Piers Morgan:So when you say the Palestinian side is organised, I say to you that there is increasing evidence that what is happening with the settlers, the Israeli settlers, is also organised and, in fact, is encouraged by people at high levels of Israeli government. Absolutely not. You are completely mistaken. And I will prove it to you. Look at what's happening when there is a criminal act which is being committed by a Jew. It's being condemned by everyone. We actually say that it is not part of who we are, the president, the prime minister, and the Palestinian side. It's exactly the opposite. They glorify.

49:55They name squares and cities after terrorists who killed massacred Jews. They pay them from the money they have, pay to slay, they pay them. So look at the culture of hate that the Palestinians have compared to what we have. We condemn, and I'm telling you that. You will not find anyone in Israel who is an official who supports those criminal acts. We are against it, and it's not part of our society. And that is the difference. We want to see stability. And, you know, I'll be very honest with you, and I will be direct. The Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria are not going anywhere, Piers. They are there to stay.

50:37Also, the Arab communities are there to stay. So we have to realise that. And by labelling the Jewish communities as terrorists, you know, it's not going to move them anywhere. And I hear the voices coming from the UK threatening us. It is about time to have a reality check. The Jewish communities will not go anywhere.

50:55Piers Morgan:They will stay in Judea and Samaria forever. Yeah, I mean, you talk about Britain there. Again, Mike Huckabee accused the British government of Jew hate over Ed Miliband's claims that medicines were being blocked from entering Gaza. Ed Miliband is the new Foreign Secretary of the UK government. And he posted his offence, which apparently made him a Jew hater, even though he is Jewish and Huckabee isn't. He said this. So I just came out of this meeting talking about Gaza to people who've been there and are there on the ground, and, frankly, it was horrific what is unfolding. You know, the stories that people were telling me of medicines being blocked, children dying while waiting for vital, life-saving treatment, when you hear that account of what is happening, you know that we as a UK government, as the Prime Minister has said, have got to act and act more decisively than we have.

51:58Piers Morgan:Now, what Ed Miliband said there has been widely endorsed by any number of independent bodies. Israel says there's absolutely no issue with aid going into Gaza or the Gaza Strip. However, as you know, there remains a ban on international media operating freely in Gaza to verify that one way or another. Surely the best way to establish who's telling the truth here is you let the journalists in to do their job, not embedded with the IDF, where every movement is controlled, but to operate freely, given there is supposedly a ceasefire in Gaza, there should be no reason why international media cannot be allowed to go in and do their jobs freely and to work out where the truth lies.

52:46Piers Morgan:Why does Israel continue to ban international media from going in freely of their own accord? Before we go to that, we discuss it every time we talk. I have to comment... Because it never changes. I have to comment on the words of the minister. You know, he said in his video that he heard stories, and that's what it is. It's stories. It's not facts. But they're first-hand accounts of people who were there. It's not serious. It's completely not serious. Well, you think he's made them up? Is he inventing them? I think that he didn't check the facts. He's wrong, completely wrong. So just to be clear, you're accusing the British Foreign Secretary of inventing these stories?

53:25Piers Morgan:I'm telling you, he's not checking the facts. How can he be a Jew? All right, but Danny Denon, how can Ed Miliband be a Jew hater, according to Mike Huckabee, when Mike Huckabee isn't Jewish, but Ed Miliband is? I didn't call him a Jew hater, and you're putting me twice in contact with my dear friend Mike Huckabee today. So Mike Huckabee's wrong about that as well. Is Mike Huckabee right about any of this? and saying that the Minister, Secretary of State, Foreign Affairs, is wrong. He has the facts wrong. He should speak with the UN official. So why don't you let the media in? Just to repeat a question I ask you every time, but it never changes, so I keep having to ask it.

54:03Piers Morgan:When will the international media be allowed in by the Israeli government to do their jobs and to verify whether anything you've just told me is true? So today you have thousands of aid workers in Gaza that walk in Gaza, they're getting in and out in Gaza. I'm talking about media. And you should ask them. They can report, they can give you the numbers, they can tell you about the trucks coming in every day. Hundreds of trucks coming in every day. But what about the media? I told you that many times that regarding the media, we don't want the media to get inside there. They might get hurt. You will tell me it's about them to take responsibility.

54:41But we know that at the end of the day, Israel would be blamed if something would happen.

54:45Piers Morgan:There is a new UN report today. You obviously work at the UN, warning that the large-scale removal of rubble from Gaza, overseen by Israel and without any scrutiny by international media, could be deliberately removing evidence of war crimes. So the reason this is such an important question... Well, you may laugh, but the fact you're still... I tell you why I'm laughing. Here's the problem. Because he told you... Here's the problem, Danny. Because you're still banning international media, How do we know you're not covering up war crimes? I tell you why I'm laughing, because it shows the hypocrisy of some of the UN reporters and rapporteurs.

55:23You know, because the rebels are coming out in order for a large reconstruction. And that was the request of the Board of Peace. And Israel accepted that. And we are working with the Board of Peace to start pilots to build new neighborhoods in other areas. And now when it's happening and you have rebels coming out of Gaza, somebody at the UN is blaming us for committing a crime. That is the UN. That is the hypocrisy of the UN.

55:48Piers Morgan:Well, again, the best way to verify if you are committing crimes in Gaza is to let journalists in to do their jobs. The longer the Israeli government bans journalists from doing that, the more suspicion will grow that you are covering up war crimes that have been committed in Gaza and may continue to be committed in Gaza. So I think that the fact that today you have hundreds of NGOs and thousands of employees walking there, you know, reporting from there, you get videos from Gaza. So if it's that safe for them, let the journalists in. So as I told you, that's something we discussed. I cannot tell you that it's not being discussed, but still the decision of the government is not to take that risk.

56:32Piers Morgan:You understand why I find it very hard to believe a word any of you say about what's happening there. until you let the media in. Yeah, but you better believe the UN reports, you know, because in the last few weeks... So, hang on, so now the UN is telling the truth? No, when you look at the facts of... You just told me we can't believe what the UN says? Which one is it? When you look at the facts of trucks coming into Gaza, there is no dispute between us and the UN. So we can't believe the UN, but we can believe the UN, but either way the media can't come in. So, you know, you have to look at the facts, you know, and we argue all the time.

57:08Piers Morgan:I'd love to. Let the journalists in and we can get to the bottom of it. I want to see. I know it's not your decision, Danny Denon, but I do know the Israeli government decision is very deliberate and it is a suppression of the rights of journalists to do their job and operate freely in Gaza, which is supposedly a place with a ceasefire. So this argument that is to protect the health of the journalists is bullshit. You know it and I know it. And what I'd love to hear is one time when you come on where you announce to me that you've been instructed by the Israeli government to say that actually journalists can now go in and do their job.

57:44Piers Morgan:And at that moment, we can start to independently verify what is really going on there and what has gone on there. And the longer the Israeli government refuses to allow journalists in, the more my suspicion, never mind anybody else's, grows that they must be because you have something to hide. Otherwise, you'd let them in? First, I think that they will happen. But before it happens, you have to realise that we are still waiting for the disarmament of Hamas. And when you look at their next steps, you know, you look at your angle of allowing journalists to come in. You know, I think more urgent is to speak about reconstruction and other issues, but it will not happen without disarmament.

58:22That is the key issue. And I hope it will happen sooner than later, because there is no future for Gaza or for Israel if Hamas will stay in power and if they will still hold their weapons.

58:34Piers Morgan:Daniel, I always appreciate you coming on Uncensored. Thank you very much. Thank you. The case which shocked and divided America ended on Friday with a mistrial. Lindsay Clancy, a former nurse who killed her three children, faces legal limbo after the judge declared the jury to be deadlocked. Well, joining me to discuss this is Dr Phil McGraw, author, broadcaster and psychologist. Dr Phil, welcome back to Uncensored. I can't remember many stories in recent times that have divided people so vehemently as this one. And the dividing line really comes down to one thing, which is everybody accepts that this woman killed her children.

59:19The question is whether she was driven to do so

59:23Piers Morgan:by postpartum psychosis. In other words, after giving birth, she effectively lost her mind, didn't know what she was doing, and therefore cannot be guilty of a cold-blooded murder. It is something that was beyond her control. And it's that dividing line which many are not accepting. They say, look, three kids were killed here. Of course it's murder. Where do you sit with this? well i said first as you just rightly pointed out pearson thank you for bringing it up uh cora dawson and callan lost their lives here and you're one of the few that really mentions that in in light of the trial these three children their lives have been taken from them they'll never grow up they'll never have children they'll never run and play in sports and go to school and all of that.

1:00:16That's the real tragedy here. And the question is, who's accountable for this? And if you start unpacking it, there are a lot of people that have ownership and accountability. Clearly, they died at her hand. Look, postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis are two very different animals. Postpartum psychosis is a psychiatric emergency. And when it occurs, it requires immediate psychiatric hospitalization and separation from the children until such a time as they have been determined to be safe by independent experts. And look, trials are not teachable moments in American society about mental illness.

1:01:07Unfortunately, they're not. They're used as weapons of persuasion and trial, and they had hired guns on each side that came in and argued these from different points of view. The case is not did she have a mental illness. Clearly she did. Who would kill their children in their right mind? That's not the issue. The issue is, was it to the point that she didn't know that what she was doing was wrong, or was it to the point that she simply could not conform to the law? And it really comes down to, was this an irresistible impulse or an impulse not resisted? And that's often the case. And I've treated these cases in the past.

1:01:51And people need to realize there are red flags you can notice. Red flags you can recognise and react to. This is not something you adjust medications for. It is a psychiatric emergency.

1:02:07Piers Morgan:If you had been on that jury... We know that one male juror held out, and that was why, in the end, there was no verdict and it was declared a mistrial, because they couldn't agree. Given everything we saw in this trial, Phil, if you had been on that jury, would you have convicted her of murder? I probably would have recognised that she was unable to conform to the law and sent her to a psychiatric facility. So probably not guilty by reason of mental defect or disease. And people think, what does that mean? Well, she doesn't go home. uh andrea yates in 2002 uh was found not guilty by reason of insanity in houston texas uh that's been 25 years she's still in a psychiatric facility uh locked up down there this is a uh nobody gets a pass here and there's nothing to celebrate here i don't understand how this is being celebrated by some coming to her support.

1:03:24Well, that's another part of this, Phil,

1:03:26Piers Morgan:I wanted to mention, talk about with you, is we've seen a really disturbing pattern, I think, in recent years. You look at the Luigi Mangione example. Look at the Boston Marathon bombers who were put on the cover of Rolling Stone magazine, right, as if they're rock stars. This lionisation, hero worship of people who commit despicable crimes. I just find it incredibly distasteful, but a real symptom of the kind of social media era we live in. What do you make of it? I think it's really misguided. Where were the people outside the courthouse holding vigil for the three children? Where were the people that were demonstrating for this tragic loss of life?

1:04:15Regardless of how it came about, whether she was unable to comport herself or whether she was not, where were all of the people demonstrating for these three children and the tragic loss of life that they had? I think it's really misguided. And I think it's the shrill voices from the extreme that take over the narrative. And sometimes the loudest voice is not the one we should listen to. It's the voice that we measure and common sense tells us this was a tragic situation. This woman, was she planning this? Was it premeditated? People are debating all that. The question was, if you've never had, and people that have will know, and if you've never treated someone with a strong delusional disorder, penetrating that is very, very difficult.

1:05:17I've treated people with delusional disorders when I was in private practice for months and months and months and been unable to penetrate that delusional system. She had reportedly an authoritarian voice that was both authoritarian and authoritative. She assigned credibility and power to the voice telling her, you must save your children. And she felt like she was doing the right thing. And that's a powerful influence. And if you've never dealt with that, it's hard to understand how persuasive that can be. Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have eczema. So I get how it can steal your time.

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1:07:00Piers Morgan:You know, there are two other parts of this. I think one is how heavily medicated she was. And secondly, there's a big debate now about the access that mothers like her have to appropriate help and treatment for this postpartum depression and or psychosis. You know, America remains an unbelievably heavily medicated society. You know, I think I said last week, and it's an incredible fact that is worth repeating, that 80 % of the world's painkillers are consumed by Americans. It's a startling statistic. Do you think here that part of the problem was how heavily medicated she was? I mean, it was being said that this was destroying her mind.

1:07:50Piers Morgan:And secondly, do you think if she got better, more appropriate help from the medical profession, from the system, if you like, we could have avoided what ended up happening? I think it was definitely avoidable. There were screaming red flags here. And I think she was undertreated and overmedicated. And those two things could happen simultaneously. Look, medicine has become a high-volume business, right? But in order for these physicians to make the kind of living that they want to make, they've got to turn them and burn them. They've got to get them in and get them out. And as a result, so many don't take the time to really get into the patient's history.

1:08:35And when you're dealing with psychiatric disorders, you have to rely heavily on patient self-report. And if you have a non-reliable historian, you're at the mercy of what they tell you. But they don't take the time to, and we don't have the system that allows us to see what other physicians are treating the patient, what other medications are being prescribed. There needs to be a clearinghouse where you can see what all has this person been prescribed in the last 30, 60, 90 days. She had six clinicians and 13 medications, and one of them does have a side effect of seriously agitating bipolar disorder if it's not given with a mood stabilizer.

1:09:21And there are black box warnings on some of these medications. So was there polypharmacy involved here? I highly suspect there was. Did we have someone that was being run through a gamut of pills being thrown at them? I think clearly that's part of the problem here. This is a woman that was a sophisticated individual. She was a labor delivery nurse, and she did ask for help. She did go voluntarily admit herself. She did things that you would hope someone that was hearing what she was hearing in her head would do. But I don't think the system, it's not any one thing, but I don't think the system did its job here.

1:10:10That doesn't excuse her. These are reasons, not excuses. But clearly, this was a woman that fell through the cracks of the system.

1:10:19Piers Morgan:Yeah, I completely agree. Dr. Phil, as always, such a wise contribution. Thank you very much. Thank you for talking about this. We need to keep a spotlight on it, and people need to look for the red flags where people are talking about harming themselves or their children. It is a psychiatric emergency. It is. Phil, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you, Piers. Talk soon. Well, joining me now is Mark Garagos. He's the criminal defence attorney. Mark, great to have you back on Uncensored. Such a complex case, such a divisive case here. But from a pure legal standpoint, Was the judge's decision in the end to order a mistrial the correct one?

1:10:59Well, it certainly was based on what he had at the time. I mean, it came close to, I think, him having to remove the juror. When the foreperson, the foreperson was very sophisticated because the note, and I'm talking about what at least was reported both in the courtroom on the record and what was talked about with the Supreme Judicial Council, their highest court, was that basically this person, the lone holdout, had a doubt but was not applying the reasonable doubt. When Reddington went to the highest court, he also said that the person was biased, and the bias was against somebody who had a mental disability.

1:11:50You know, that was a, to my mind, that was a stretch. It was clever. And I think based on that record was not good enough to remove the juror. However, if we get a juror or one or more of them who now does a declaration or talks about the fact that this juror had some other motive or agenda, even if it was something to do with the prosecution's use of mortal sin, you'll remember that the first time they asked the grandmother whether she knew it was a mortal sin under Catholicism, Catholicism the second time the expert volunteered that. If you get, if the defense gets either one of those things, they may have this unique situation that you have in America where the U.S.

1:12:41Supreme Court says, if when the mistrial is declared, it's because you were goaded into it by the prosecution that you're once in jeopardy and it can't be tried again.

1:12:54Piers Morgan:Fascinating. If you had asked Dr. Philwiss, I'll repeat the question to you. If you had been on that jury, would you have convicted Lindsay Clancy of murder or not? No, certainly not a first degree murder. I think that the biggest problem and the reason the prosecutors seemed so tone deaf to everybody, including myself who watched them, is it was severely overcharged. This was not a first-degree murder case. I think they did that tactically because under a quirk of Massachusetts law, apparently you cannot waive jury, meaning it could not be a bench trial if it's first-degree murder, which is not the case in other jurisdictions.

1:13:38So if that's the case, they were trying so hard to keep this as a jury trial because they also were turned out to the fact that jurors were not going to hate this woman. I know that this is hard for people to understand, but if you go back five or six weeks ago, people did nothing but talk about how much animus the jury was going to have for her. And I don't think people understand human nature when they say that. First of all, she's sitting there in a wheelchair. She tried to seriously kill herself. They didn't. They took that or they diminished that, number one. Number two, her mother-in-law, her ex-husband, both got on the stand and forgave her.

1:14:21So whose interest is the DA? You know what I mean? This goes into the juror psychology. Whose interest are they vindicating if the people who are closest, the people who are most impacted? As a grandfather, I can't even imagine forgiving somebody who would harm my, my grandkids. And here you have the grandmother basically saying she was a wonderful mother. So it really ignores the kind of dynamic that was happening. But Pierce, I'm going to ask you one question because I've had this argument. You know, you had said in the previous run-up to this interview that people were universally agreeing that she did this act.

1:15:04The problem with that is If you're here in America and you're around any females under the age of 35 or 40, and obviously I've done no survey, but anecdotally, there is a movement of people who do not believe that she was guilty of this crime. I mean, just flat out not guilty. It's astonishing.

1:15:24Piers Morgan:I mean, you're right to pick me up on that, because even as I said it, I was aware there is this weird subsection of people that just think that she didn't do it at all, which is obviously for the birds. but is a reality and also is a kind of weird lack of reality. And we're seeing more and more of this now. We live in an era, social media-driven, fake news-driven, AI-driven, where it's very, very hard now to convince people of the truth if they get it in the head, that there's a certain narrative at play here. And I've seen the sites online where people are peddling all this stuff. and, you know, a lot of people buy into it, don't they?

1:16:07Piers Morgan:And they won't be dissuaded. I, it's, I, when you gave the, I had forgotten about the Boston Marathon bomber when you mentioned it, that they were on the cover of Rolling Stones. But when you combine that, look at, you don't have to go any farther than Brian Colbert or Tyler Robinson. Many of these cases that you see that, you know, even 10 or 20 years ago, it would have been unfathomable to have a constituency that was arguing this. And I'm not talking about people who have electrodes implanted in their brains affected by low-flying aircraft. I'm talking about rational, logical, highly intelligent people who will make a forceful argument and believe it.

1:16:52It's really kind of a... That's my takeaway from all of this. I mean, I agree with Phil and you. with the fact that the kids, like I said, I just can't even get your head around it. But there is this other story. And I, as a criminal defence lawyer in my day job, am kind of astonished by what we've seen in the last couple of years.

1:17:20Piers Morgan:Yeah, I completely agree. Just finally, what happens now legally? Is there definitely going to be a new trial? I mean, and if there is, how do they find anyone in America now who doesn't know all about the story? It's such a great question. And I will readily admit I deviate from a lot of my colleagues. I went through and explained that kind of once in jeopardy. And that's a it's a very kind of thin read to to get to. But I think if something and with the Reddington added another lawyer, I assume it was an appellate lawyer, onto this team, I think with the right motion and you already saw that the prosecutor, the elected DA, Tim Cruz, who Reddington kind of went after and said, I crushed Tim Cruz afterwards in the press conference.

1:18:13It's a way to win friends and influence DAs. But I think that this is ripe for a deal. And I've been there countless times where I've hung the jury the first time. And I always feel like I've gotten advantage because they've shot their best shot, so to speak. But in the second time around, before you get to trial, I think they may come to their senses. And I mean the prosecution, because like I said, I think any objective observer would tell you that this was overcharged. Every prosecutor, ex-prosecutor that I know, says the same thing. And if that's the case, this is the prototypical case that should be resolved.

1:18:56Also, remember, Patrick Clancy's lawyer, the father, his lawyer came out right after the verdict, right after that press conference, and issued a statement that putting the family through this again would be excruciating.

1:19:10Piers Morgan:And it is. So what would the deal look like in the most likely scenario of a deal? What is that deal? I would think that the way to navigate this would be a psychiatric commitment. And if she was found NGI, basically, that's what she would get anyway. And as you, I think, astutely pointed out with Andrea Yates, she hasn't gone anywhere. And some of the stuff Phil was talking about, this was a psychiatric emergency. Part of the problem, and I've had this for so many years, not in the postpartum psychosis situation, but when people are in the throes of one of these psychiatric emergencies, What's interesting to me is when they get the proper help and the proper kind of calibration of the medication and they're in a psychiatric institution of some kind, they can get kind of grounded at some point.

1:20:16But what ends up happening is when you drag them back into the criminal justice system, they're normally, this is the exception in this case, normally they're housed back in the whatever respective county jail and they disintegrate immediately. So it's kind of this endless circle jerk, if you will, of the psychiatric and the criminal justice system. It also points out kind of writ large one of the problems with the U.S. criminal justice system, which is literally 80 percent of the cases that get processed through the system have a mental health component. And whether it's self-medication, whether it's drugs, whether it ends up manifesting in homelessness or anything else, the last three sheriffs in L.A.

1:21:06County, for instance, have told me they run the largest mental institution in the world, which is the L.A. County Jail. So it's not something that a criminal defence lawyer sees. It's something that law enforcement sees. It's just a pernicious problem that we have in the US.

1:21:23Piers Morgan:Yeah. Mark Garagos, as always, brilliant. Thank you very much. Thank you, Pierce. Good to see you.

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