"Like An Authoritarian!” Trump Demolishes East Wing + Kamala Running Again? | With Brian Tyler Cohen

21:17THE WORST IN AMERICAN HISTORY. OKAY, I 'LL WAIT FOR THAT. DO YOU WANT TO PLACE A WAGER? IF SOMEBODY TRIES... I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE AN HONEST CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS THAT'S A LITTLE MORE NUANCE TO THAT. I THINK THE TRUTH IS... I THINK WE CAN ALL SAY DONALD TRUMP INDISPUTABLY LEFT OFFICE. I THINK WE CAN ALL SAY DONALD TRUMP LEFT OFFICE KICKING AND SCREAMING. HE DID EVERY LEGISLATION... DID RYAN SAY THAT? I'M TRYING TO ADVANCE THE CONVERSATION SO WE DON'T JUST HAVE A DOG FIGHT THE WHOLE TIME. I'M SAYING, YEAH, THERE WAS A FIGHT. Yes, there was resistance. Some of it was legal. Some of it was extra legal.

21:47Some of it was flat out illegal. Some of it was nonviolent. Some of it was violent. Some of it wasn't directly from Trump. Some of it was from his support. We get that. But the point here is that Trump did not want to leave office and did everything he could to not leave office and still doesn't really believe or at least doesn't state publicly that he lost the election. And so based on that logic, it's not unreasonable to think that Donald Trump would resist again. And if he resisted knowing that he doesn't have a second term in his back pocket like he did the first time It's entirely plausible that he goes even harder this time It's entirely plausible all the conspiracy theories are possible and when people who have supported him for years If not decades say look he ain't going nowhere that also doesn't inspire Come guys don't believe this transition of power You don't believe so when you place any money on the notion that Trump is going to stay in office Just allow me Just just allow me to finish the thought and then I promise I won't interrupt you AND SO WHEN YOU SEE THAT, THAT RHETORIC, THESE ACTIONS, TRUMP'S STATEMENTS THEN COMBINE WITH HIM DOING MAJOR RECONSTRUCTION ON A RENTAL AS MY MAN SAID, THAT DOES MAKE SOME PEOPLE ANXIOUS.

22:49DO I THINK TRUMP IS GOING TO STAY IN A THIRD TERM? NO, BECAUSE I THINK THAT THE ARMED FORCES, I THINK IN PARTICULAR BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT AREN'T GOING TO ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN BECAUSE THEY 'LL BE LISTENING TO THE NEW COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF WHO WILL BE THE ELECTED PRESIDENT. I ACTUALLY THINK TRUMP WON'T STAY A THIRD TIME. BUT I DO THINK IT WON'T BE WITHOUT A FIGHT. I think that's plausible.

23:33Piers Morgan:To watch their full stories and many more, scan the QR code on your screen or visit OxfordNatural.com slash peers. And here's the best part. Use the code peers and get 70 % off your first order. Get 70 % off with the code peers. Well, Jack, I want to play you a clip, if I may, which is Kamala Harris is definitely hinting she may run again, which might be even better news for Republicans than Donald Trump running again. This is what she told Laura Coonsboe from the BBC yesterday. In terms, then, of what is next for you, you write very powerfully about the differences that many women have made to your life.

24:14When are they going to see a woman in charge in the White House? In their lifetime, for sure. Could it be you? Possibly. In my experience, interviewing politicians, when someone says, I'm not done, it means they are thinking seriously about running. But when you look at the bookies' odds, they put you as an outsider. I've never listened to polls. If I listened to polls, I would have not run from my first office or my second office. And I certainly wouldn't be sitting here in this interview.

24:39Piers Morgan:She also told Charlemagne the God, I'm not done. I've lived my entire life of service. It's in my bones. So there have been two interviews at the weekend over the last few days where she's clearly intimated Jack that she may have another go at this. I mean, I watched the interview she did in its entirety with Laura Koonsberg. I thought she just came over as so utterly deluded, clearly thinks this was a very narrow defeat that under normal circumstances, if Biden had stood down a bit earlier, she'd have walked it, when in fact the reality is Donald Trump won everything. He won the White House, the Electoral College, the popular vote.

25:16Piers Morgan:He won the whole of Congress. He won every swing state. I mean, it was the biggest shellacking of modern times in terms of the breadth of the victory. Why would she even think of running again? Oh, no, Piers, I couldn't disagree more. I mean, America is a divided country. This panel is divided in many ways. But if there's one thing America can't get enough of, it's more Kamala Harris. We need more Kamala Harris on TV, more Kamala Harris rallies, more of those incredible concerts, which I attended, many of them, many of the rallies that I went to, just so high energy. We need as much Kamala Harris as America.

25:53Actually, she should replace Bad Bunny as the Super Bowl halftime performer. She should just get up there with Megan Thee Stallion, maybe with Bad Bunny, come on out as a guest. I would love her to do every single bit of that.

26:07Piers Morgan:Well, Brian and Mark have been stony face throughout that little statement. So, Brian, let me ask you, this cannot be helpful, surely, to the Democratic Party. I mean, what I'm seeing with the Democratic Party right now, you've got Kamala Harris on this kind of whiny, whiny defeat tour, hinting she wants another go at this, which I think would be a disaster. But you also have the progressive, quite hard left of the party beginning to dominate now in Democratic politics. And again, if you're the Republicans, you're probably rubbing your hands with glee that AOC may be the candidate. I mean, what is your view of the way, first of all, what Kamala Harris is doing on manoeuvres, but also the way the battle to be the voice and the heart, if you like, and the soul of a democratic party is looking like heading towards another election?

26:57I think in general, if, look, if Kamala Harris wants to, wants to throw her hat in the ring again, like a full primary is not something that's going to hurt anybody. I think having as many voices as we possibly can is just going to be. I mean, the criticism against Democrats as we head in headed into the 2024 election was that it was not a democratic process. And so inherently for for anybody to say, oh, Kamala Harris can't run, I think is is feeding into that same idea. If she wants to run, if she wants to be part of what I promise will be an extraordinarily large primary field, then more power to her.

27:31I think more voices is always welcome. It may be the case that she gets only a few percentage points and it becomes very clear that she's not going to be the nominee. So be it. I think that that lending ourselves to that democratic process is only going to help more and more. Now, in terms of the broader the broader Democratic Party right now, look, I think it's I think to your point, there is a bit of of uncertainty as to who as to who the new face of the Democratic Party is going to be as to who the leadership of the Democratic Party is going to be. We don't have that answer right now. And I know that's that's not really like a satisfactory answer but we just don't have that answer and in large part that's why the the party had felt rudderless for so long um and so you know i think that we're going to get that answer relatively soon but i think that we can see as we head toward uh the 2026 midterm cycle that that really in large part these midterm elections are going to be a referendum on the unpopularity of republicans we've seen democrats overperform 12 14 16 points FROM THE STATES FROM WHERE THEY WERE IN 2024.

28:36SO WE 'LL BE ABLE TO KIND OF BENEFIT FROM THAT AS WE HEAD TOWARD MIDTERMS, BUT WE'RE GOING TO NEED SOME STANDARD BEAR AS WE HEAD TOWARD 28.

28:48Piers Morgan:MICHAEL KNOLEZ, IT SEEMS TO ME THE PROBLEM THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS, I 'LL COME TO YOU, MARK, IN A MOMENT, BUT, MICHAEL, IN THE NEW YORK MAYORAL RACE, MAN DARNEY IS CLEARLY A VERY CHARISMATIC GUY. HE'S GALVANIZED PEOPLE IN NEW York. There's no question of that. And there's no doubt that the party nationally is looking at him and thinking, wow, OK, is this the way to go? But my gut feeling is that what the Democratic Party is desperately crying out for is another kind of Bill Clinton figure, Barack Obama figure, left to centre, but not too far less pragmatic, a common sense candidate with bags of charisma, someone who can come and really like drag the party out of the poll gutter.

29:28Piers Morgan:It's currently languishing. Least popular Democratic party ever right now in recorded history in terms of the of the poll numbers. And I looked at the rally yesterday where you had AOC and Bernie Sanders and Dhani and all this kind of stuff. And I'm like, wow, I just this this can't work, can it? Mom, Dhani is very impressive for New York, and I hope that the Democrats take the lesson that they need to replicate him nationally. I hope they nominate him for president in 2028 because the demographic of New York is not the demographic of the rest of the country. So Mamdani, for instance, relies on the foreign-born New Yorker population.

30:06Without the foreign-born population, he loses. It's not even particularly close. So I hope that they try to make all of America look like New York. For the rest of them, I think you're right, Piers, that the Democrats are trying to have a Bill Clinton new Democrat-like figure. That was Gavin Newsom's initial instinct. So he tried to make friends with Charlie Kirk, he tried to make friends with Steve Bannon, and then the base just wouldn't let him. So then he had his press office tweeting out all sorts of unhinged, radically left-wing things, vaguely threatening. They don't know what to do. They're schizophrenic.

30:39I don't think that Kamala is serious about running. I think Kamala had some ghost-written book and she answered the question about how she's not done in politics. I think this is Sarah Palin 2012 all over again. It's going to be will she, won't she to try to get some SPEAKER FEES, BUT IT'S NOT REALLY GOING TO WORK. AND THEN WHO ARE YOU LEFT WITH? I THINK AOC IS LEGITIMATELY A PRETTY IMPRESSIVE CANDIDATE, PROBABLY CAN'T WIN NATIONALLY, BUT SHE IS WHERE THE DEMOCRAT PARTY IS GOING. OTHERWISE, WHO YOU GOT, MOM, DONNIE? OKAY, NOMINATE HIM. I'M IN. WHERE DO I DONATE?

31:09Piers Morgan:YEAH, I MEAN, MARK LEMONT HILL, I THINK THIS IS A REAL CRISIS OF IDENTITY FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. AND IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE THEY HAVEN'T REALLY LEARNED MUCH FROM the last election, which is if you get hijacked by the progressive left of the party with all the woke stuff that was enveloping the party, that you could, you know, you can run into a populist Republican candidate who just takes you to the woodshed, right? And I just feel like they haven't learned from this. Surely the party has to move back to a more electable centre ground, doesn't it? Like most of you, I've been through the ringer with health scares affecting loved ones.

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32:28Piers Morgan:Half of what others charge for less. Head to superpower.com to learn more, avoid health crises, and lock in the special price of$199 while it lasts. After you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them, So be sure to mention Piers Morgan Uncensored and support our show. Your biology decoded. Your health blueprint activated. Go to superpower.com. You know, it's so fascinating. I was with you right until about 70 % of that sentence. It was going to be one of those monumental achievements in human history that you and I agreed. I think you're right that the Democratic Party has not learned its lesson.

33:06I think the Democratic Party over and over again continues to fail to lose its lesson because it doesn't seem to be able to find its backbone. It doesn't seem to want to engage or respond to the policies and the outcomes that voters want. I mean, the reason Mondani is popular is because he's speaking to people's needs. I mean, people want lower taxes. People want public transportation that's free. People want access to housing and health care. People want to be safe on the streets. And we can have disagreements about certain pieces of Mondani's politics. That's fine. Everyone can have those agreements or disagreements.

33:37I tend to agree with him. But ultimately, he's speaking to the voters' needs. What the Democrats keep doing, particularly on national elections, is say, hey, we're going to try to out Republican the Republicans. Kamala Harris went on the national stage, and she's bringing on Republicans with her. She's not moving beyond Biden or Trump's position on Israel-Palestine, which became a huge wedge issue for her when she was running. When we talk about immigration, when we talk about offshore drilling, when we talk—I mean, I could name five issues of fracking, actually. more specifically, we could name multiple things that she just wasn't sufficiently distinguishable from the Republican alternative.

34:16And that's what didn't make voters excited to come out and vote for her, along with all the other stuff. I absolutely think that they need to learn their lesson. The Republicans learned the lesson over a decade ago. Remember when the Republicans kept getting shellacked and Bobby Jindal did the autopsy of the Republican Party? And the thing the Republicans started to learn is they need to speak to their voters. They need to speak to the THE BASE OF THEIR VOTERS, THEY NEED TO STOP BACKING DOWN. THAT'S WHAT I'D LIKE TO SEE FROM DEMOCRATS. AS FAR AS THE KAMALA HARRIS CHOICE, I DISAGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY.

34:42I KNOW SOME PEOPLE PRETTY CLOSE TO HER. I HAVEN'T SPOKEN TO HER DIRECTLY. BUT I THINK SHE'S ABSOLUTELY CONSIDERING RUNNING. AND MY FEAR IS NOT THAT SHE 'LL GET NOMINATED. I ACTUALLY DON'T THINK SHE 'LL WIN THE NOMINATION. BUT MY FEAR IS THAT THE PERSON WHO DOES WON'T BE THAT DIFFERENT. IF GAVIN NEWSOM RUNS, HE'S MORE POPULAR. HE'S MORE CHARMING TO SOME PEOPLE. He's more handsome to some people, but he's the same candidate in different rapping. We need a progressive, a real progressive. If I can add, too, Pierce, you had mentioned... Yeah, sure. ...the progressive left and all the woke stuff. Think about who the candidates are that have been relentlessly focused, to Mark's point, on issues that impact regular voters.

35:20Bernie Sanders, the most... the farthest left politician that we have in America, also the most popular politician that we have in America, also the one who is so focused not on woke issues, but on issues that impact regular Americans, on economic issues. AOC is the same way. Mom Donnie ran this whole campaign, focused on the rent and focused on free buses and making sure that people can afford to eat. So there's this weird conflation where just because someone is progressive, that you just assume that there are these just bastions of wokeness. But in fact, IN FACT, THE MOST PROGRESSIVE CANDIDATES, THE PEOPLE WHO IDENTIFY AS DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISTS, THOSE ARE THE ONES WHO ARE FOCUSED ON ISSUES THAT ACTUALLY IMPACT REAL AMERICANS, LARGELY ECONOMIC ISSUES.

36:07AND IN FACT, IT IS THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES. IT'S THE REPUBLICANS IN OFFICE WHO ARE MORE FOCUSED ON IDENTITY POLITICS.

36:15Piers Morgan:YEAH, BUT, BRIAN, OKAY, BUT IF YOU ASKED AOC, FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT IS A WOMAN? WE ALL KNOW SHE'D STRUGGLE TO ANSWER, RIGHT? THIS IS THE PROBLEM, RIGHT? She would be very, very wary of articulating that a woman is an adult female. I think AOC would have no problem. I think people love creating... Correct. Okay, how about Mamdani? The only struggle would be arriving at a common point of definition between her and transphobic people who refuse to accept trans people as people and trans women as women and trans men as men. Yeah, but this is where, Mark, this is where, Mark, this is where you're so wrong, and I'll explain why.

37:01Piers Morgan:You know, Kamala Harris, if you remember in the last election, in the run-up to the election day, the most successful ad in modern American political history, the New York Times said afterwards, was the 30-second ad about Kamala Harris and Matran's issues, ending with, CARMEL IS FOR THEY, THEM, DONALD TRUMP'S VIEW. THEY RECON IT MOVED THE NEEDLE BY THREE POINTS. AND YET AT THE SAME TIME, MANY ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE WERE SAYING THIS WOKE STUFF, NOBODY CARES, IT'S IRRELEVANT, IT DOESN'T CUT THROUGH, IT'S ALL JUST RIGHT-WING HYSTERIA. AND I WAS SITTING THERE IN THE MIDDLE GOING, NO, NO, IT DOES CUT THROUGH.

37:36Piers Morgan:IT DOES CUT THROUGH. IF YOU'RE LIKE A MOM WITH KIDS IN SPORT, IN WOMEN'S SPORT, IN MIDDLE AMERICA, YOU ABSOLUTELY CARE ABOUT THIS. and you want to have a candidate that can quite clearly tell you what a woman is. Now, again, I come back to this because to me it became a litmus test of where the left took things. If you can't articulate what a woman is without, as you say, you know, I'm not, look at me, I'm not remotely transphobic. I think trans people exist. They have a right to exist. They have a right to fairness, equality, safety, like you and me. I want the same rights for them everybody else gets.

38:10Piers Morgan:However, not at the expense of eroding women's rights. And that's why the definition of a woman is so crucially important, because it stops the unfairness and inequality and safety issues that come from when you allow trans women to say we're women and they start trampling on women's rights. That's why it's so important. Okay. I heard your statement. You articulated quite massively. I'm going to ask you if you allow me to respond without interruption. I'll take 20 seconds. There's a difference between saying we disagree on what defines a woman and saying that people who have a more expansive definition are struggling to define what a woman is.

38:49We're not struggling to define it. You just don't agree with us. Trans women are women. Cis women are women. They're all women. There are different experiences. There are different stories. There are different contexts. And we have to be, I think, honest about that in applying public policy. But there's no struggle here. If there's any struggle, it's been getting voters to remain focused on the issues that actually matter. I don't have an issue that Kamala Harris prioritized or paid great attention to trans women's rights. The problem was she allowed the right wing to co-opt the narrative and make it seem like that's all she cared about, that she didn't care about workers' rights, that she didn't care about reparations, that she didn't care about living wages, that she didn't care about Palestinians in Gaza, that she didn't care about Haiti, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

39:32So, no, that's not an issue. And finally, to take this one issue around women's sports, which is relatively small in terms of its impact on everyday people, and make it seem as if trans people who make up an infinitesimal part of the American public are somehow running through your cities and just doing triple axles and dunks and swimming past all your little girls and ruining their sports dreams is a dishonest narrative. I happen, I probably agree with you to a large degree about needing to have a conversation about trans women in sports. I'm open to having that conversation. What I'm not open to doing is making it seem as if trans people are destroying the world or they're destroying women's rights or they're undermining women's rights.

40:15There's a lot of people undermining women's rights right now, and it ain't trans people. And allowing the right to convince us that that was the big issue in the election is why the Democrats lost. And I don't blame the Republicans for that. I blame the Democrats for not foregrounding the issues that matter in addition to this other issue that also matters.

40:30Piers Morgan:But, Mark, I think you just made Pierce's point for him. Hang on, Michael, I will come to you. But just quickly, can a woman have a penis, Mark? Yes or no? These types, a trans woman may have a penis. A cis woman would not have a penis. These are silly gotcha games that are just used to get clips on the Internet. I understand your point. No, they're not. You're saying it's a circular argument. I THINK IT'S A BIT OF A IT'S SIMPLE BIOLOGY. A WOMAN CAN'T HAVE A PENIS. YOU AND I AGREE ON THE BIOLOGY. THE POINT HERE IS THAT GENDER IDENTITIES ARE DIFFERENT THAN SEX IDENTITIES. IN OTHER WORDS, GENDER IDENTITY IS NOT A BIOLOGICAL CONSTRUCT.

41:11SO, YES, WOMEN BIRTH BABIES. MEN HAVE PENISES. WE ALL AGREE ON THAT IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MALE AND FEMALE. actually males have penises women have vaginas we agree with that we can all agree on that when we talk about gender it's not purely about what you're assigned biologically at birth and so to conflate the two things is to either be uh ignorant to the the actual issue or to be disingenuous i don't think that you're just anyone who has a vagina is that a man say that one more say that again i didn't hear the question oh so so just just following that on the inverse also true then And so does anyone who has a vagina must be a man then, right?

41:50No, that's not the inverse. That's not at all the inverse. The point here is that biologically, there's male and female. That's a much better question. That would follow more logically than the thing you initially asked. Biologically, if you have a vagina, if you're born with a vagina, you are a female. Biologically, if you are born with a penis, you are a male. Yes, that's not in dispute. What's in dispute is, are our biological identities at birth, are our biological identities the whole story? And in a trans conversation, we're saying, no, that's not the whole story. Yes, I was assigned male at birth.

42:26Everybody on this panel, ironically, was assigned male at birth. That's not in dispute. What's in dispute is, does that tell the whole story about our identity? I wasn't assigned male at birth. Are there social constructs that we can also have? Hang on.

42:34Piers Morgan:But this whole language, Mark, Mark, Mark, this whole language is so ridiculous. I wasn't assigned male at birth. I was born a male, right? And this is the problem. And when you talk about trans women in sport, the reason it's so important is there is a... Mark, I interviewed... No, let me just finish my point. I interviewed a woman called Betty Yee last week, who is literally a candidate to be governor of California, where I currently am. I have a home here in L.A. And she genuinely wants the next Olympics in Los Angeles to be gender neutral. That's what she's endorsing, a gender-neutral Olympics, because she's been so traduced into going along with a lot of what you've just been saying, which trans women are women, therefore it shouldn't matter.

43:25Piers Morgan:You can merge the two sexes. You can have gender-neutral Olympics. And here's what happens when you do that. If you're at a gender-neutral Olympics, women wouldn't win any medals. And you literally destroy women's sport irrevocably. Done. Gone. So once you assume that we separate the sexes at the Olympics, well, I don't think it's funny this. I think it's so important. It's fundamental. No, I don't think it's funny either. We separate the sexes at the Olympics. What I think is, I was laughing to myself because I was wondering. Mark, Mark, let me finish. Let me finish. Let me finish. We separate the sexes at the Olympics for a reason.

43:56Piers Morgan:Please finish, but there's a seven-second delay, so I'm not interrupting you. There's just a seven-second delay. I know that. I'm telling that to the audience. I don't think I'll be rude to you. Go ahead. I recognize that. You're not interrupting me. There is a very slight delay. I agree. Let me just ask you, though, why do we separate the sexes at the Olympics?

44:14OK, so I'm going to answer your question, but I'd like to respond to the first part of what you say, which which I didn't get to respond to, because, again, you're making a straw man here. I'm not arguing for mixing the sexes at the Olympics. I agree with you that we start to divide sports by sex around middle school because there are some biological, physical differences between people born male and people born female that make it non-competitive for female, those assigned female or those who are identified as females at that point. So, no, I don't understand why we divide people in track or basketball or wrestling.

44:46I'm not arguing for not doing that. I'm saying that two things can be true at once, as I said initially. We can have a conversation about trans people in sports, but that doesn't mean that I have to no longer identify trans men as men or trans women as women. We can say trans women are women and have conversations about sports that are different. And you're conflating those two. And every time I dispute your point about gender versus sex, you make a straw man argument about women competing in the triathlon, which I'm not making. All right.

45:17Piers Morgan:Let me bring in Michael. You've been waiting very patiently here. It seems to me, Michael, the left get themselves into torturous knots about this issue. They also fundamentally don't understand how it sounds to people listening to this stuff, because it sounds, honestly, it sounds slightly insane, because what Mark has just done is articulated perfectly that we separate the sexes in the Olympics because men have a physical advantage, but at the same time, he wants trans women to be actually acknowledged as actual women. Therefore, the argument should be they should be entitled to all the same rights as a woman.

45:49Piers Morgan:In other words, she better compete against women. This is the problem with it. Michael. I think that Mark has just proven the broader political point. To what Mark said, he said two things can be true at once. And that's true. But two opposing things cannot be true at once. That violates the law of non-contradiction, which we've known since at least Aristotle. So it cannot be the case. Mark's definition is that a woman is a person who identifies as a woman. But that's obviously a circular definition and therefore completely insufficient. That's not what I say. Or he'll say, hold on, let me just finish.

46:22That's not what I say. Or he'll say that a woman biologically. No, but that's not my position. I just want to be clear that that's not my position that you're studying as my position. A woman can be biologically a woman, but for legal purposes a man or something like that. And it's totally incoherent and it obviously is not persuasive to voters. So getting back to the broader point that Piers opened up with, all he said was, look, if you asked AOC what a woman is, she would tie herself into knots answering. I think this panel, and Mark in particular, has just demonstrated that. And to your point, Brian, yes, I agree that Bernie is generally a non-woke leftist.

46:56And he's been very good, actually, on certain issues like immigration because he's for reducing immigration to help workers' rights. However, I think Mamdani and AOC are manifestly woke, and I think you've just proven the point right here. If they cannot answer, as Ketanji Jackson, Supreme Court Justice, could not answer, what a woman is, that's a good rule of thumb. They've gone woke, and it has really hurt them with voters. It hurt them on common sense issues in 2024. And the more schizophrenia they demonstrate on issues like that, the worse they're going to do in 28.

47:26Piers Morgan:You can read more about this in my—hang on, wait one second. You can read more about this in my new book, Woke is Dead, which is more an aspiration that woke is dead. But this is one of the reasons why the ideology behind it is so inherently flawed. Michael, I want to stay with you just to change topics and then come to the others. But there's been an interesting feud erupting in the cyberspace between Matt Walsh and Mehdi Hassan. Well, let Mehdi explain what he thinks it's about. You want to get your backyard summer ready, but you don't want to break the bank? Wayfair gets it. Planning on dining al fresco or relaxing poolside?

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48:27Piers Morgan:Now, what's really bothering him about me is that I said in a recent visit to Dearborn, I think that if you can play church bells, you can pray the call to prayer. Isn't it okay for Muslim Americans to broadcast a call to prayer? I mean, let me add right now, within reason, of course, and in accordance with all local sound and noise ordinances. But Matt went nuts and said Christianity built this country. Islam did not at all in even the slightest way. That's why we can have our church bells. To which I responded, one in three of the slaves who built this country were Muslims. They were here long before the Walsh family arrived.

48:58Piers Morgan:you'd know that if you'd studied history, but I know MAGA has an issue with studying. To which Matt responded with a 13-minute video in which he got really mad, but was unable to rebut the two central points that I made. Well, let's see a little bit of Matt Walsh's response to Mehdi. You're as American as anyone else? Really, Mehdi? Really, Mr. Hassan, you're as American as anyone? You're a Muslim who was born in the UK, came to this country less than 10 years ago in your mid-30s, to work for Al Jazeera. Is there anyone who seriously thinks that Mehdi Hassan is American at all, much less as American as anyone else?

49:38Piers Morgan:So, Michael, an interesting point here. Obviously, America remains a Christian-dominated country, so the sound of church bells ringing to encourage people to come to a Christian place of worship would be very familiar up and down the country. Is there anything intrinsically wrong with a call to prayer for the many millions of Muslims that live in America? Well, of course, and this is no disrespect to Muslims, but the call to prayer, like all religion really, is a public kind of thing. It changes communities. It sets standards and norms in communities. And so the question then becomes, what kind of communities do we have?

50:20What kind of communities are really American? And the fact is, we're a Christian country. I know that Mehdi Hassan was accusing Walsh's family of showing up late, but mine was here about as early as it could be on the Mayflower, and those were zealous Christian pilgrims. They called themselves pilgrims. And so it's a Christian country. Muslims basically did not exist in America until the latter part of the 20th century after the major immigration reform in Hartzellar. Mehdi makes a good point that a lot of the slaves who arrived here were Muslim because they were enslaved by Muslim slavers in Africa.

50:51But they almost all converted to Christianity. Our only real experience in America of Islam early on was the first Barbary War when more Muslim slavers kept stealing our sailors. And ultimately, we resolved that issue. But it took a little while into the early 19th century. So on the historical point, does anybody seriously want to keep a straight face and say America is just as much a Muslim country as a Christian country? Of course not. We've been very welcoming to Muslims. And in many ways, Muslims are more grounded than secular leftists. But give me a break. It's totally preposterous. And there's nothing wrong with the people wanting to keep their religious traditions and the character of their country that's been around for 400 years.

51:31Piers Morgan:All right, Brian, I did a bit of research because I wasn't even sure if at the moment if you if it is permitted. Right. So under freedom of religion, a call to prayer isn't banned from the U.S. Constitution. However, local councils can decide on the use of loudspeakers to broadcast it, including prohibiting it during unsociable and decibel level. In 2023, Minneapolis became the first major U.S. city to allow the announcement or ad hand to be heard of the speakers five times a day year round. And in New York City, city guidelines announced in 2023 by Mayor Eric Adams clarified that mosques do not need a special permit to amplify the call to prayer on Fridays and sundown during the holy month of Ramadan.

52:13Piers Morgan:So it seems like there is a reasonable amount of flexibility already for the call to prayer. But I guess it's really about the principle, Michael, arguing there that because America is so largely a Christian country, is it right that a minority of Muslims, say five to six million Muslims, I think it is in the population of America, maybe slightly more now, should they have a right to the call to prayer to be amplified or not? If you're asking me if Muslims should have the right to practice their religion, I think that that question is beyond easy to answer. is right there in the first name. No, no, that wasn't the question.

52:48It's right there in the first name. It's about whether they should be allowed to... The talks for prayer is part of the religion.

52:52Piers Morgan:No, no, specifically, whether they should be allowed to amplify the call to prayer in towns, cities, whatever, as they do, obviously, when you go to the Middle East, you hear it very loudly, quite deafening sometimes through a city. I've been in the Middle East a lot this year. So it's whether that should be permitted or not. I think that if it's in accordance with local laws and there's a practicing people that want to practice their religion, then that's what America is. This idea, I mean, what Michael just explained was maybe the most anti-un-American thing that I've ever heard. This claim that we are a Christian country.

53:31I mean, Michael, we are expressly not a Christian country. In fact, we have a whole separation of church and state right there in the establishment of the Constitution. Yes, yes, I do have currency. What's it say on there? What does it say? It says in God we trust, which was - Does it say in Allah is our trust? Does it say in Shiver is our trust? God, Michael, I'm not gonna enter into a whole theocratic debate with you, but God can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. It's not theocratic, it's answering the silly point that you just made. We're a Christian country. Our founders said so.

54:02The men who built the country said so. Michael, this is - It's in our national anthem, and it's on our minds. That having In God We Trust on our dollar bill does not mean that we are a Christian nation. We have the freedom of religion and the freedom from religion in this country. And the notion that because Christians view themselves as some persecuted minority or some persecuted majority in this country does not just mean automatically that this is a Christian country. I know that that's a big political highlight. Hey, Brian, is Christmas a federal holiday? Yes. It is. Is Easter a federal holiday?

54:36Yes. You're not. OK, I just wanted to. Well, I have a. We're still. We're not. You're not making a. You're making a. Let me jump in.

54:46Piers Morgan:Let me jump in. There are. Let me jump in. There are just there are. I've just checked while I've been listening to you guys. There are just under five million people identifying as Muslim in the United States of America out of a population of three hundred and forty million or so. There are 235 million people in the United States who identify as Christian, making up 69 % of the adult population. I mean, that is, whatever way you look at it, Brian, that makes America a predominantly Christian country. I mean, there's no disputing the numbers. Pointing out which religious group has a majority in a country does not make that country a Christian nation, especially at the expense of some other religion.

55:27So you can point to the fact that we have a majority of Christians.

55:30Piers Morgan:Would you call any Middle Eastern countries Muslim countries? Because they have other religions in those countries. So are they Muslim countries? It depends what the country is and what their constitution says. I mean, our constitution expressly says that we are... Exactly, and that's the point. Can I just jump in as a Muslim and as a professor, and as a Muslim and as a scholar of Middle Eastern studies, I think I have something to contribute here. I think you're ticking a lot of boxes here, Mark, to jump in. Yes. Look, I have to sometimes. So there's a few things here. One, the definition of a religious country is being floated about here in ways that I think are unclear.

56:15If we're talking about a religious state, the United States is not a religious state. It's not a Christian nation in that way. Right. Is it founded largely on Christian values? Is the culture leaning toward Christianity? Hence why we have federal holidays like Christmas off and Easter off, but we don't necessarily have off for Eid. Although now we have off for Eid as well, right? But it just depends. But in that way, yes, this is a Christian country. But the principle of this country is that there's religious tolerance and that there's religious plurality. There are about close to 5 million Muslims and many who don't identify for various reasons.

56:43And there are about 7 million Jews. When we practice Jewish holidays or observe Jewish holidays, we don't tell people, you know, silence your voice, silence your prayer call, silence this, because it's a Christian country, and we shouldn't. We want to honor and respect the beautiful religion of Judaism and the beautiful religion of Islam and the beautiful religion of Christianity. We have to do all of those things at once. You said that historically Muslims didn't enter this country until the latter part of the 20th century. That's just factually untrue. And I think to ignore the fact, not relative to the number of enslaved Africans who were brought here, and that was Mehdi's point that I don't want to see distorted.

57:20They were forced to convert to Christianity. That's like me saying there weren't that many Jews. That's like me saying there weren't many Jews during the Inquisition. If you're forced to hide, if you're forced to convert, I'm not using that as, that's not a feather in your cap. The point here is that Inquisition is huge. Mark, we're drifting away. Enslaved Africans built this country. Enslaved Africans built this country, and many were Muslim, and many even after the era of slavery still held on. That is true. And Michael did say that. And many of them practiced secretly and silently and even at the beginning of the 20th century with the Moore Science Temple, with the Ahmadiyya movement.

58:02We're moving away. And if you look at the founding... Time out, please. God forbid, we bring some facts in here. Time out. You're interrupting the point of... Thank you. Thank you.

58:12Piers Morgan:Thank you. We're moving away from the actual question. It's not about whether Muslims have a right to practice their religion or even a historical lesson about how many may have been slaves that helped found America. That's not the debate we're having. We're having the debate that given there are under 5 million Muslims in the United States, should they be permitted to have a call to prayer of the kind that you would hear all over the Middle East? You're a professor of Middle Eastern studies. He's just declared that. do you think that would be a sensible move to enable the call to prayer to be heard across America?

58:47Piers Morgan:Yes or no? Okay. Well, it's not a yes or no question. Some things aren't yes or no. And by the way, the diversions came from me responding to the misinformation that had been distributed. I didn't randomly go into a historical analysis of Muslims in America. I was responding to the misinformation. But to your direct question, there should be a call for prayer because we're IN A NATION THAT HAS RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE. AND THE CALL FOR PRAYER IS A NECESSARY PART OF THE PRACTICE OF ISLAM. IT'S NOT JUST THAT MUSLIMS WANT TO CALL TO PRAYER. THE ADHAN IS ACTUALLY PART OF THE PROCESS OF PRAYER. BUT THE DEBATE HERE OR THE REQUEST HERE WASN'T FOR IT TO BE DECLARED LOUDLY ACROSS AMERICA AS YOU JUST DESCRIBED IT.

59:26THAT WAS NEVER THE DEBATE. IF THERE ARE FOUR MUSLIMS IN WICHITA, I'M JUST SAYING HYPOTHETICALLY, NO ONE IS SAYING WICHITA HAS TO HAVE THE ADHAN PLAYED FIVE TIMES A DAY. That's not the call. If there are Muslim communities and there are mosques there, yes, they should be able to do the call to prayer. It was never supposed to be blasted across the city, supposed to be blasted or played within a reasonable earshot. That's all it is. That's not what it's like in Saudi. But to give you a perfect example, as someone who spent the last 15 years or so studying in Israel and in Palestine, I can tell you that when you walk through Jerusalem and you hear the call to prayer, it's within earshot.

1:00:02It doesn't disrupt the people five blocks away or even two blocks away. AND THAT'S CERTAINLY AN ECUMENICAL COUNTRY. IT IDENTIFIES AS A JEWISH STATE, BUT SILL MUSLIMS ARE ABLE TO PRACTICE THEIR RELIGION AND HAVE THE ADAN PLAYED IN THAT CONTEXT. THAT'S ALL PEOPLE ARE ASKING FOR. ALL RIGHT.

1:00:17Piers Morgan:INTERESTING. CHAP PASOBI, WHAT'S YOUR VIEW OF THIS? WELL, I THINK THAT WHAT MARK IS SAYING, IT MAKES SENSE. AT THE SAME TIME, I DO THINK THAT CITIES AND TOWNS CAN VOTE ON WHATEVER NOISE ORDINANCE THEY'D LIKE. I THINK THE BIGGER QUESTION HERE THOUGH REALLY DOES COME DOWN TO the fact that these massive immigration of Middle Easterners, massive immigration of Muslims have come into the United States predominantly since the events of 9-11, predominantly since the advent of the turn of the century, the 21st century. And that's why you're seeing things like this, seeing questions like this come up because America has gone down this road from open borders and mass immigration towards a new country where the demographics have massively shifted in this country since 2000.

1:01:03And that's why we're getting all of these questions that used to sort of be, quote unquote, settled science in America. Now suddenly we're having to deal with the fact that we've got millions and millions of people here that don't share our culture, that don't share our history, that have no connection to our founding whatsoever. And they're bringing... Are Muslims shooting up south of the border? Hey, los muslimones! How does the border crisis connect to the question of the adan? I'm trying to understand. I'm saying open borders in terms of mass immigration. FROM WHERE? WHERE IS THE MASS IMMIGRATION COMING FROM?

1:01:35THERE IS MASS IMMIGRATION FROM THE MIDDLE EAST, MASS IMMIGRATION FROM SOUTH ASIA, MASS IMMIGRATION FROM LATIN AMERICA, TONS OF MASS IMMIGRATION ALL OVER THIS COUNTRY. HOW DO YOU THINK THAT'S A DEAL? YOU THINK IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS THERE'S BEEN... GO LOOK AT THE GUY WHO IS RUNNING FOR NEW YORK MAYOR. GO LOOK. THIS GUY IS WINNING THE PARTY. WINNING THE GENERAL ELECTION IN NEW YORK BECAUSE OF MASS IMMIGRATION. THIS HAS BECOME HIS LEADING EDGE IN TERMS OF THE PROPORTIONALITY OF VOTES THAT HE'S WINNING are from foreign-born New Yorkers. So you've got a guy who's going to be the mayor of our biggest city because of mass immigration, a guy who, by the way, like yourself, is Muslim and is someone who was born outside of the country.

1:02:13He's an immigrant himself, I think, 2018. So there's no way you can say that mass immigration from these areas hasn't changed the character of America. I was disputing the idea that the border crisis was connected because the border crisis wasn't bringing large numbers of Muslims. That's the part that I was disputing. As far as the mass immigration, if you remember, I THINK THAT'S A BORDER CRISIS. WHEN PEOPLE SAY THE BORDER CRISIS, YOU KNOW THEY'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT REFUGEES FROM SYRIA COMING IN. BUT TO THE EXTENT THAT WE ARE. YES, A LOT OF THEM DO COME IN AS REFUGEES FROM SYRIA AND TURKEY AND AFGHANISTAN AND SOMALIA.

1:02:46HOW MANY SYRIAN REFUGEES HAVE COME IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS? TOO MANY. TOO MANY. HOW MANY? That's a fancy way of saying, I don't know, and I just threw out something. Again, you can point to Deer. I could pull it up right now if you really wanted to have a conversation about this. But places like Dearborn, Michigan, places like Minneapolis are now having these policies because of mass immigration. That's just a numbers argument. Because they have black and brown people there, and those things don't actually change the character of America if we're saying that the character of America is democratic.

1:03:17Minneapolis hasn't been changed since 1990 because of mass Somalian immigration. Is that really what you're saying right now? I'm saying the character of America has not been changed. If you bring in large numbers of Somalians to Minneapolis, if you bring in large numbers, say, for example, of Somalians to Minnesota, and those Somalians are Muslim, then, yeah, you'll see more Muslim culture and more Muslim practices happening in Minneapolis. But that's not antithetical to the character of America. That's the point I'm making. Of course it is. Embracing religion. I think we can all agree, probably.

1:03:50Embracing tolerance.

1:03:51Piers Morgan:I think we can all agree that when it comes to numbers, the fact that a reported 10 million people came into the United States illegally under the Biden administration was not a good thing for America. And certainly not a good thing for the Democratic Party that lost control of their border. Well, Mark, you can laugh, but actually I think it was one of the fundamental reasons Donald Trump got elected. You know damn well I'm not going to agree to that. That's why I'm laughing. Fierce, you know, I'm laughing because you know damn well I'm not going to. I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT SOCCER SUCKS.

1:04:22YOU KNOW I'M NOT GOING TO AGREE TO THAT. YOU KNOW I WASN'T. YOU SENT ME UP. YOU SHOULD AGREE TO THAT.

1:04:27Piers Morgan:THAT'S MY POINT. YOU SHOULD AGREE. YOU SHOULD JUST SAY, Piers, YOU'RE RIGHT. HOW COULD YOU ASSUME THAT MARK WOULD WANT TO ENFORCE BASIC IMMIGRATION LAWS? HOW COULD YOU ASSUME? THAT'S CRAZY. LET ME ASK MICHAEL, BEFORE WE LET EVERYONE GO, BECAUSE IT'S BEEN A FASCINATIVE DEBATE. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. BUT TOMORROW, YOU'RE appearing, Michael, before the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution at the invitation of Subcommittee Chairman Eric Schmidt for a hearing entitled Politically Violent Attacks, a Threat to Our Constitutional Order. And you said this recent uptick in left-wing violence is the culmination of years, really decades, of consistent assaults on their opponents, a free marketplace of ideas simply cannot exist when ideological bandits keep shooting up the marketplace.

1:05:08Piers Morgan:I'm grateful to Senator Schmidt for convening this important hearing. and looking forward to holding into account the left-wing ideologues undermining our public square. So it's going to be very interesting when you give your evidence. But I guess the obvious response will be, and I can say this on behalf, I'm sure, of Brian and Mark, will be this is not just a left-wing issue, political violence or ideological violence. There are many, many examples in the last decades of right-wing violence against the left wage from an ideological political viewpoint. Why do you believe this is becoming a much more prevalent issue for the left and not the right?

1:05:48It's certainly not just a left-wing issue. You know, the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth. It's a fallen world, of course. But even The Atlantic, as liberal a magazine as it gets, has recently admitted, based on a new study, that left-wing terror is predominant, has exceeded right-wing terror. And then when you go back through some of the previous studies and data sets that suggest that right-wing terror in previous years has been more prevalent than left-wing. What you find is that the way they arrive at those numbers is by not counting the left-wing terror. So we'll be presenting that tomorrow before the Senate committee.

1:06:21I'm really grateful, obviously, for the opportunity to do that. All of this comes without question in the wake of Charlie's murder, and that has led as a silver lining, I suppose, to a national conversation on political violence. But this has reached a fever pitch. And when you have left-wingers much more likely than right-wingers, according to recent surveys, to justify political violence, it's become a real existential threat. And so I'll look forward to seeing what, if anything, the Democrat senators have to say to the facts tomorrow.

1:06:53Piers Morgan:Very interesting. I'm looking forward to watching that. Thank you. Yeah, you know what, Mark? Look, one of the most sickening things I've seen in recent times, actually, not just the murder of Charlie Kirk for his views, given how he used to literally go into college campuses to have debate. But the way it was gleefully celebrated by people on the left, I thought was repulsive, absolutely repulsive. And I would call that out if I saw people on the right celebrating the cold-blooded murder of a left-wing political pundit. THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT SHOULD JUST BE WAY BEYOND ANYTHING OTHER THAN BASIC HUMANITY, AND THAT IS ONE OF THEM.

1:07:31Piers Morgan:YOU DO NOT GLORIFY OR CELEBRATE THE MURDER OF A YOUNG MAN FOR HIS VIEWS. YOU JUST DON'T. I AGREE. I AGREE WHOLEHEARTLY. I DON'T THINK ANYONE SHOULD CELEBRATE MURDER, POLITICAL ASSASSINATIONS, ET CETERA. I THINK THAT IT'S, FOR ME, IT'S A MORAL NONSTARTER. YEAH. OKAY. WELL, LET'S END ON A RARE POINT OF TOTAL AGREEMENT BETWEEN ME AND MARK LAMONT HILL. a moment in history, a moment to savour. Thank you all very much, guys. That was a great debate. Appreciate it. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing.

1:08:07Piers Morgan:Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical, and And we couldn't do it without you.

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