‘MAGA Cult Is OVER!’ AIPAC Michigan Defeat & Tucker’s New Party + Nick Shirley & Rand Paul

25:03But also as the cell ruptures, there are nuclear contents that come out that you also develop immune reaction. So you have a more extensive, broad immune response when you've had it. That's not an argument for everybody just to get it. But the thing is, is whether we wanted to get it or not, we all did. and the whole world probably has had this infection. And then at some point we have to transition to what happened. In 1887, a coronavirus came, caused a bad pandemic, and it's now one of the four common colds. COVID in all likelihood is very close, if not there. And at some point someone just needs to study it and start giving people advice.

25:39And then maybe we don't have to waste time on taking a vaccine anymore for it. But if it works, I'm all for saying it works too. But nobody knows now because the question has not been studied for the booster. whether the booster still reduces hospitalization and death.

25:55Piers Morgan:Yeah, I agree with all that. Senator Rand Paul, you know, another part of my dinner party argument was that you are some kind of weird obsessive about Fauci, and that's what's driving this. I have to say, I've been watching you for a long time on this. I think you've been asking completely pertinent and important questions, and we all deserve answers, because the next time there's a public health crisis or a pandemic, we've got to have trust in public officials. And the only way you get that is to examine in the way that you've been very rigorously doing exactly what happened with the COVID-19 pandemic.

26:30Piers Morgan:So personally, I'm very grateful for the work that you've done. Thank you very much for joining me. Thank you. We're turning that to my panel. Clay Travis, the founder of Outkick. Mike Nellis, democratic strategist and host of Endless Urgency. Kari Prejean-Boller, the conservative commentator. and Omar Badr, the Palestinian-American commentator. Well, welcome to all of you. Just want to get quickly a reaction, Clay Travis, to that interview with Senator Rand Paul because it is an incredibly inflammatory story. The COVID pandemic and Anthony Fauci as the front man for it in the United States. Is the public interest going to be served by continuing to go after Fauci who has obviously a pardon from Biden, whether people like it or not, he does, and ultimately trying to put this guy in prison?

27:24Piers Morgan:Or can we accept that maybe he made a number of mistakes in a fast-moving pandemic and that actually that's the lesson from this, which is we need to be more careful? I mean, we could do an entire show on this. I thought your interview with Rand Paul was good, Pierce. I think Senator Paul has been heroic in his pursuit of the truth as it pertains to COVID. On Fauci, I think if you compare his diary and his taking of the Fifth Amendment 111 times, I think it was during that congressional testimony last week, I think he believed that he was going to be the hero of COVID. That's what drove him to keep that diary.

28:06That's why he obsessively was keeping track of all the celebrities who were impressed by him. And I think the ultimate result is that he's going to be the villain of COVID because there were so many things, particularly in 2021 with Joe Biden, that were utterly indefensible that he defended. And I do think he belongs in prison for the rest of his life because I think he clearly committed perjury, lied under oath. I think all of this was directly connected to the fact that he knew that he had helped to create that virus through American tax dollars and the gain of function research that had occurred in China.

28:47And everything was about trying to make it appear that this had been a virus that naturally arose through animals. And I think if you want to go back in time and rewrite this, which I think is very important because one day we may have another pandemic. And I think the American public will not trust anything anyone in a position of power tells them, even if it's a far more dangerous virus. I think what really began to puncture all of this, Pierce, and I'm sure you remember this. I bet you talked about it back in the day was actually when Jon Stewart went on Stephen Colbert's show and ridiculed through humor any of the beliefs that were out there.

29:27I thought that was the beginning of sort of the House of Cards collapsing around Dr. Fauci. I do think for a historical purpose, I'm a history major, I think the story of COVID is important to tell. I think a lot of people are embarrassed by the fact that they were telling us, Pierce, hey, you have to have a mask on to walk into a restaurant, but as soon as you sit down, you can take it off and eat. The fact that we had flight attendants walking around telling people they couldn't drink for too long or chew for too long. I think a lot of people who supported all of that. Pierce, in New York City, you were supposed to sit in a circle outdoors in a park.

30:03If you walked onto an elevator, you were supposed to stand in the corner and face the wall. A lot of people were mindless and they did everything that people in positions of power told them. And I think the experts were wrong about virtually everything, certainly from about May and June of 2020 on. And I do think that we need to have a historical reckoning here.

30:29Piers Morgan:OK, Mike Nellis, welcome back to Uncensored. I mean, look, Anthony Fauci, as I said to Rand Paul, is completely entitled constitutionally to plead the fifth. You know, Donald Trump has done it many times as well. Many, many public figures have done it. OK, but Mike Nellis, you said this after the Senate hearing. Fauci's right to plead the fifth. The entire hearing is a sham. Republicans have spent years obsessing over him. He leaked his journal entries a few days ago, and they've been promising to find a reason to throw him in prison because they've lost their goddamn minds. This whole thing is a joke and should not be treated with any seriousness.

31:02Piers Morgan:Now, I would take issue with that because I don't think it is a joke. I do think it's something that's very serious. I think there is a clear link between Anthony Fauci and the gain-of-function research in the Wuhan Institute of Virology. That is now established. It's beyond any argument. And I think he has important questions to answer. I also think, as we just heard from Clay, there were a number of suppositions put out by the experts during the pandemic, which I, to my regret, actually went along with as a journalist when I should have been, I think, more rigorous because they kept changing their position on things like the efficacy of masks or transmission if you had the jab and so on and so on.

31:46Piers Morgan:So it taught me a lesson as a journalist to be more sceptical in the moment of these things. And to those who were, who I was being censorious to, I've apologised and will continue to do so. But the reason, I mean, take the journals, for example. Fauci wrote this on a government computer. That's how they got the permission from the courts to put it in the public domain. And no one can persuade me that the contents of Fauci's journal, which contained directly contradictory statements to stuff he was saying in the public domain at the same time, is not in the public interest. Why would you think that none of this is important?

32:27Well, it's not that I don't think that it's important, Pierce. I agree with you and I agree with what Clay said a few moments ago. There were a lot of mistakes that were made in the pandemics. There were a lot of things that we were told to do that were really stupid. it. And I will never forget washing my groceries, feeling really stupid after having them delivered. And in hindsight, I feel even dumber than I ever did that. And I think there's a lot of things that we need to do in a public reckoning would be good here. However, I do think that what Rand Paul here has done and what the MAGA movement has done makes this entire thing a sham.

32:54When you spend five or six years claiming that you're going to throw somebody in prison, when you spend years spreading disinformation about the COVID vaccine and what Anthony Fauci did or didn't do, of course he's going to plead the fifth. They essentially promised that it was going to be a perjury trap. They created the conditions where he isn't going to show up and do anything else other than protect himself. You asked him a very good question, which is why not just give Anthony Fauci immunity? Because the actual thing that needs to happen here is we should learn how we can make sure that this never happens again.

33:23It was a massive, massive, unprecedented crisis. There were a million mistakes made by Dr. Fauci, by everybody else, up to and including Donald Trump, who at one point told his own supporters to drink bleach to make sure that they don't get the pandemic, which was ridiculous. And I believe one guy died doing it like the next day or a couple days later. So there's a whole public reckoning that we should have. But at the end of the day, Rand Paul and a lot of other people have decided to make this political because they want to fire up the MAGA base in the middle of an election season. We're doing this less than 100 days out from the election at a time when the Republicans are desperate to talk about literally anything other than the economy, the stupid war in Iran that Donald Trump doesn't know how to win, everything else that's going on on the massive corruption.

34:02I would like to see Rand Paul have that same energy that he brought to a sham hearing with Dr. Fauci for, where the hell Mitch McConnell is, his partner in Kentucky, he doesn't know where he is, doesn't seem to care, doesn't seem to care about Max Miller, doesn't seem to care about the Epstein files, doesn't seem to care about anything else that actually has the minds of the American people right now that's looking forward. So people are tired of this. I would love a real conversation about this, but nothing about this is real, it's just all politics.

34:27Piers Morgan:OK, look, I don't want to spend any more time on Covid for the purposes of this panel, because we've only got about 25 minutes left. So let me just talk to you, Omar, if I may, about this extraordinary win by Abdul El Saeed in Michigan, which is a clear, as you've put in your post, a defeat for AIPAC. You said the billionaire and special interest class that casually buys elections in America got together, and spent an unprecedented$62 million to smear El Saeed, outspending him 10 to 1, and mobilised the entire Democratic Party establishment to sink him, and he still won. And that is indisputable.

35:07Piers Morgan:That is what happened. Do you think he can actually become senator, though? Because the sort of big-picture view here is that you're getting a real rise of this progressive hard left, for want of a better phrase, socialist progressive hard left. but that it can't be an electoral winner on the national stage, and that actually the Democrats may be pushing themselves into a trap here, which suits the Republicans, come a general election. Do you share that concern? You know, Piers, just looking at what has happened last night, it really is difficult to overstate how significant that is. What we're seeing right now is a cataclysmic shift in American politics altogether, an American political discourse that you have it is standard that the billionaire class and AIPAC and others essentially bully people and get election outcomes that they choose it is very common that the billionaire class and super PACs and so on can actually if they decide to put a target on somebody's back make sure that they end their political career and get their outcome and the fact that they have come together in a way that is so overwhelmingly concentrated I mean they wanted to make sure that they went all out in this case to defeat Abdul Sayed and they were not able to.

36:25That is very, very significant. It's a sign that voters are fed up with politics as usual. It is a sign that people are now awake. They don't want to put up anymore with their money being spent on a genocide instead of serving them, because that is effectively what Abdul's message was all along. It wasn't anything particularly radical, you know, when you hear about left or whatever. It is really basic common sense policies that he was advocating for. He wants health care for people in Michigan. He wants better access to education, better services for people, and doesn't want American money to be spent on a stupid war abroad in Iran and supporting a genocide against the people of Gaza.

36:59That's basic elementary common sense, and people are not going to put up with the fact that this is what American policy has been for a long time. Now, when you think about the general election against a Republican, essentially what you have is a campaign of substance by Abdul Saeed, and you have, on the other hand, essentially a campaign of smears by Mike Rogers. So I don't know what the ultimate outcome is going to be. Nobody knows, obviously. But that is effectively what we have. You have Mike Rogers recently at an interview being asked about his position on the Iran war, says his constituents have not raised it, so he doesn't really know where he stands on it.

37:31Asked about tariffs, it's the same thing. Asked about Trump's corrupt slush fund, where Trump wants to give American taxpayers money to the people who rioted on January 6th to overturn a legitimate election in which Trump has been defeated. and also Mike Rogers doesn't know what his position is on that. So you have somebody who's completely lacking in substance and all he goes for is essentially accusing Abdel Saeed of being a communist. It's a smear. It is utterly baseless. It doesn't mean anything. And what we're going to find out come the general election is whether a general campaign of smears is going to work or whether the people of Michigan are going to be focused on substance.

38:06We are going to find out together in a couple of months.

38:10Piers Morgan:Okay. Kari Pridhim Bola, welcome back to Uncensored. At the same time that you've got this real split in the Democratic Party, the Democrat Party, you also have the same thing happening on the sort of MAGA conservative right. And, you know, tonight, Tucker Carlson has teased he's going to reveal his plans for what is a, at the very least, a new movement and could even potentially be a new party. You know, where Joe Kent on my show on Monday, who was part of this picture with Marjorie Taylor Greene and Thomas Massey and others, where it looks like they are creating something new anyway. We don't know quite what that will look like.

38:54Piers Morgan:You posted on 3rd of August, MAGA was a scam, the billionaire pretending to care about the forgotten man and woman. Trump has become a slave to a foreign terrorist state who hates Christ. He chose Epstein over America. So would you be tempted to join? I mean, say Tucker announces a new party. Do you think the mood is right now for a new party? Do you think that, as many people see it, that Trump's betrayal of the MAGA ethos has led to this inevitable split on the conservative right? And there is an opportunity for somebody very charismatic, a lot of followers like Tucker, to come forward and lead something new.

39:33Yeah, you know, for far too long, I think we've been told us MAGA conservatives that we've been in a cult. And I sort of feel like I am leaving this cult because as soon as you think for yourself and have common sense and question the narrative, you're ostracized. Look at Tucker Carlson. Look at Thomas Massey. Look at Marjorie Taylor Greene. Look at Candace Owens. Look at myself. You know, as soon as you go against the cult leader, which I think Trump is the cult leader, then you all of a sudden are ostracized from the party. And so I think we as MAGA conservatives, we still are conservatives.

40:07We still hold firm to our principles, but we are no longer a part of this cult where, you know, it just it just feels that way. And so we are skeptical. I think, you know, it feels like we are coming out of an abusive relationship. That's just how I feel. And so we are skeptical on jumping into a new relationship with someone new. But I think someone like Tucker Carlson, Thomas Massey, Joe Kent, Marjorie Taylor Greene, those are the people that we're leaning towards. Those are the people that we are seeing, oh, you guys were cancelled, you guys were barred. So sign me up. I'm willing to support that.

40:42OK.

40:43Piers Morgan:Clay Travis, when Tucker left Fox News, you posted, Tucker Carlson is a stud talent. He has a ton of incredible options. It will be fascinating to see which he takes. Now, if he starts a third party and runs against President Trump, for example, or whoever the Republican candidate is in 2028, would you still see him as a stud talent? Yeah, I think he is a unique, strong media talent. I think you, Tucker, I think there are a lot of people you can point, Megyn Kelly, who have proven that you don't have to be a member of a big organization to have a tremendous impact. I mean, the way that I always described it is I think we've moved from an era where the name on the front of the jersey matters far less than the name on the back of the jersey.

41:35And certainly I like to think without kick and potentially what I'm going to do going forward, there's a lot of opportunities out there in the new media marketplace. Look, if Tucker decides to run for president or Thomas Massey runs for president or Marjorie Taylor Greene runs for president, I think it's going to be very difficult to get past J.D. Vance or Marco Rubio or whatever the overall Ron DeSantis. I think there are a lot of people out there, Ted Cruz, that are going to toss their hat in for the 2028 race. And I think that's good. Look, I'm a marketplace of ideas guy. Make your case. Put your ideas out there.

42:11People thought when Donald Trump came down the escalator in 2015 that he was that he was an insane man and that he had absolutely no future at all in the Republican Party. And he has remade it in many ways. We'll see to what extent the Trump impromptu is continuing to have a major impact going into 2028. But I think everybody who believes they have the right vision for America on the Democrat, Republican side, on the independent side, I think they should all toss their hats in the ring. Let's have a big, fertile debate without any incumbent president in office. And let's see who the best man or best woman is.

42:51So I think Tucker, like I said, super talent. I think he's made, I would argue, I don't know, I don't see his finances, but I think he certainly hasn't been canceled. I mean, he's probably making more money now, I would think, that he was making when he was doing his Fox News show. And I know your business is thriving. I think there's a lot of new media opportunities out there. And if that translates into the political universe, foreign, more power to him. Can I just jump in here real quick? I think there's one thing that will have a great impact on how this goes. It's just that Donald Trump himself still carries very significant weight within the MAGA movement, obviously.

43:29When you look at even something as unpopular as the Iran war, there's a significant portion of MAGA that still is behind the president. I think the real question on how all this turns out is when Trump is done, when the cover up of the Epstein files, if that continues to be a scandal into the next election, and if the war on Iran ends up being the absolutely catastrophic disaster it's looking like it's going to be right now. Does that diminish Trump's appeal and influence over the Republican Party? And I think that is going to be an absolutely deciding factor in whether the wing that is anti-Trump right now emerging within the Republican Party actually gets somewhere or whether Trump is going to continue carrying significant weight and bury anybody who opposes him in the Republican Party.

44:08Piers Morgan:I think that's a really interesting point. The latest polymarket on Republican presidential nominee has J.D. Vance, his vice president, 46 percent, Marco Rubio, 27.8 percent, Ron DeSantis, 3 percent, Tucker Carlson, 2.4 percent. But I think you're right, Omar. I said from the start of the Iran war, this could be an absolute legacy changer for Trump and for Trumpism in a bad way. And the longer it's going on, the more, unfortunately, I feel that may be the case for him. Let me mention something here, Pierce, on the Tucker front, sorry, that I should have mentioned. His relationship with J.D. Vance has been incredibly strong.

44:46J.D. Vance got the VP nod largely because Tucker advocated for him. I do think the interpersonal relationship between the two of those guys plays a great, a significant role in what Tucker may decide to do going forward. Because I still think his relationship with J.D. is very strong. Sorry to interject there, but I do think that plays. No, no, I think that's a good point.

45:07Piers Morgan:No, I agree. What makes you think that their relationship is still strong? Look, I mean, Tucker praised him. Realizing anyone's relationship that you're not involved in, I think, is always a challenge, right, as we've all seen with marriages and everything else. From everything that I have seen, I believe that Tucker's son is one of J.D. Vance's top advisors still in the White House. No, he's no longer with them. No, he's not there. No, you're wrong. You're wrong. Okay, well, I apologize for not being entirely on top of the staff. If you believe that they don't like each other and they're not getting along, that would be different than what I believe to be true.

45:46But maybe you're right. I'm obviously not. No, I was just asking what evidence you have. I was just asking what evidence you have that they have a strong relationship.

45:52Piers Morgan:Well, you know what? I don't think the truth is I don't think we don't really know. So the last I heard was that they're still very, very cordial with each other. We shall see whether that cordiality extends past Tucker's announcement tonight, because obviously it would be very difficult for J.D. Vance to still remain publicly very cordial with somebody if he's running a rival party to the Republicans. We shall see. Mike Nellis, coming back to the Democrat split here, the Democratic Socialists, the problem with them is that a lot of them sound completely nuts to, I would say, the mainstream American electorate.

46:28Piers Morgan:I'll give an example of the Democratic Socialist in former Wisconsin, Francesca Hong. Now, on Monday, she defended a social media post urging the country to cancel Thanksgiving when she'd been on CNN with Caitlin Collins. Take a look. I'm a chef, and one of the first meals that I made that was for the community when I was 16 was a Thanksgiving meal. I always think my hospitality background in owning a restaurant for seven, eight years, that bringing folks around the table to share conversation and build community is always a good thing. But Thanksgiving is also a time that's incredibly painful for many people in our communities.

47:09And so I think there I wanted to make sure that people understood that there are multiple views, but views can evolve.

47:17Piers Morgan:Now, Mike Nellis, you know, I had Brianna Taylor-Joy on the other day, who finally, after I had to batter her down into giving me an answer after about six minutes, finally admitted she wants to abolish the Pentagon, prisons and the police. And the problem with this stuff is that I think the average American looks at that clip, they listen to Breanna Taylor-Joy, they look at these things and they think these people are crazy and we're going to come at the end to the whole issue of trans women in sport again and the Sophie Cunningham debacle and so on. They look at this stuff and they say, these people aren't in the real world.

47:56Piers Morgan:You know, we don't want to cancel Thanksgiving. We don't want to get rid of prisons of police in the Pentagon. Boom, overnight. Because it was obviously caused total chaos and anarchy. and so on. And we do think actually it's wrong that biological men are competing in women's sport. Now, notwithstanding your own views about any of those things, do you understand the problem here that as you have the democratic socialist rise, which is indisputable, whether it's Mamdani or whether it's El Saeed or whatever, you look at it and the wider public, I think, are going to be very reticent about voting for these types of candidates on a national stage, which could come back, therefore, and really haunt and damage the Democrat chances of national victory.

48:43Yeah, I don't think you're wrong about that. I actually think you did a favor to Francesca Hong by not playing the question that Caitlin Collins asked, because she was specifically just like, do you believe that we should cancel Thanksgiving? And the answer should just be no. It should just be a really simple thing you should be able to say. And at a bare minimum, you should be able to pivot to how expensive everything is to put food on the table for Thanksgiving, which is what somebody who is savvy at this like Zohra Mamdani would have done to explain something he may have tweeted five or six years ago.

49:08Francesca Hong has not been able to do that, and I think that's going to hurt her. Now, I would say she's different in the sense that Abdel-El Syed and Mamdani and many others, some of whom are DSA, some of whom aren't, have been able to kind of walk away from the wackier shit that DSA wants to do, which would be like abolishing jail. I don't think I've ever met a single regular human being who thinks we probably shouldn't have a prison for people like murderers and rapists and stuff like that. So it's crazy. I would encourage, you know, my brothers and sisters in DSA, who I think make a lot of good points on economic populism and the way that the system is overrun by corporate super PAC spending to get away from some of that weird stuff because it does hurt the rest of us.

49:45At the same time, I know that the mega media movement is going to work overtime to try to make this representative of every single Democrat in the country right now, which is super unfair, but it's just going to be what it is. They've spent the last two decades calling everybody a communist jihadist. I think everybody remembers that clip of John McCain talking to that older woman during the 2008 presidential where she says that Obama's a terrible person. He's like, no, ma 'am, he's a good human being. But the only reason that she believed that Barack Obama was a communist jihadist was because Sarah Palin had been flying around the country on behalf of John McCain saying that he was.

50:19So Republicans have been doing this for decades now. They're kind of like the boy who cried wolf. I don't think people are going to believe them. It also then presents an opportunity for Democratic candidates to distance themselves, particularly in battleground states and on these issues. Like it shouldn't be hard for you to say, I don't want to cancel Thanksgiving. I don't want to abolish the police. I don't want to abolish prisons to be able to say that really easy and then get back to the issues. To that point, there's been a lot of talk of like Abdul Sayed and whether or not he's too progressive to win in Michigan.

50:46Now that he's won this primary, I think he's going to do okay. And he's going to beat Mike Rogers. And a big part of the reason he will is because he's got a very simple tagline that summarizes his entire campaign, which is money out of politics, money in your pocket. It's a very simple, basic thing that people understand. He knows what he's against and he knows what he's for. Same thing we saw with Mondani. I think he's going to do okay. Francesca Hong, she's got work to do to figure out what she's going to do in a general election. All of that is right. But I also think that there is a bit of an evenness, though, in the way we talk about this in our discourse, is that, of course, some people on the left say silly things, canceling Thanksgiving or whatever else.

51:19But by contrast, the stuff that Republicans get away with and the policies, the real concrete corruption that Trump is putting on full display day in and day out. The fact that this does not get a fraction of the attention that some silly comment about Thanksgiving gets, I think is really a disservice in a way. That we have a media discourse that is obsessed with gotcha moments and silly moments and things that seem like they might be appealing and infuriate people's feelings. That is the Republican agenda, is effectively to focus on meaningless stuff that doesn't really mean, that doesn't actually reflect an actual policy.

51:49while giving Naga a pass on the matters that he's implementing.

51:53Piers Morgan:Right. But the problem with that is that actually, I know, because I worked at CNN for four years, I know you could fire a harpoon around the newsrooms of most mainstream newsrooms and not hit a conservative voter. This remains one of the big problems, I think, with mainstream media and why so many young people in particular have basically given up on it. The average age of cable news watchers in America is now over 70. There's a real disconnect here because I think almost everything Trump does gets enormous attention in mainstream media. They're obsessed with him because it drives ratings and most of them don't like him.

52:31Piers Morgan:So I take issue with that premise that somehow the Republicans get away with it. Most of the coverage on cable news remains Trump bashing. And, you know, it's interesting. Can I actually push back on that real quick? Well, hang on, hang on. I want to ask you a specific question because the one thing you didn't mention in the things that would be easy to just say no to, right, or agree with, you know, in this big Sophie Cunningham story, for example, she writes an ESPN feature saying she doesn't agree with allowing transgender girls and women to compete in women's sport. And all hell breaks loose with this.

53:09Piers Morgan:And I don't understand why. And perhaps you can explain to me what is wrong with what she said because she's right. Okay, I'll answer that, but I want to address the previous point here because one of these things about even candidates like Trump, like Trump vexes the Republican Party establishment. Now he is the Republican Party establishment, but vexed them at the time. He vexes the Democratic Party establishment, and so does DSA. A big part of the reason that these candidates are rising and doing better is because the system isn't working for people, so they're willing to take bigger risks.

53:40Like a system that will elect Donald Trump, who I don't believe on any level is qualified to be president of the United States, who has already proven himself to be so corrupt even before his second term is a system that's crying out for help. So the establishment in both political parties need to start offering and being able to deliver real solutions. Otherwise, they're going to keep getting their asses handed to them in these primaries. They just keep looking around and they choose to blame the voters. They choose to blame everybody else instead of looking in the mirror and figuring out what they're doing.

54:04Now, on the Sophie Cunningham stuff, I haven't read the op-ed that she put out. I'll tell you the same thing I've told you a thousand times about how I feel about this issue. I think it should be up to local school districts. It should be up to local communities to figure out what's best for them. I simply do not believe the federal government should be telling people who should or shouldn't be playing women's volleyball. I just don't think that's the role of the government. But what do you think? I see the two conservatives on the panel who are shaking their heads. I'm old enough to remember when they didn't believe in big government, when they thought that local communities should be making those decisions.

54:29Now you guys are like, well, the federal government should tell people who play women's volleyball. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait a second. Wait a second. Hang on. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

54:35Piers Morgan:Everybody, everybody, wait a minute. Let me ask Mike a very simple, let me ask Mike a very simple question. Do you personally believe it is fair for transgender women to compete in women's sport? Yes or no? I don't. I don't care. Same thing I've told you before. I simply don't care. And I want communities to figure it out. And what I care about is like... Do you not care about slavery? Let me answer the goddamn question before you guys jump in. Do you not care about slavery either? Slavery is not the same thing as transgender athletes. You look like a dipshit when you say stuff like that. Okay, but you're acting like a coward.

55:06You're acting like a coward. I'm not acting like a coward. I'm telling you, I don't care about... Do you have a daughter? Do you have a daughter? I have a seven-year-old son and I have a niece. Yeah, okay. Okay, do you want your niece competing against my son? I don't need a daughter to have an opinion on the issue. Wait, wait, wait a second. Do you want your niece competing against my son? My son will dominate your niece. Do you want that? Yes or no? I don't care. Yes or no? You don't care? I don't care.

55:28Piers Morgan:Why don't you care, Mike? Why don't you care? Why don't you care out of interest? No, you're a coward. Because here's what I care about. You just don't want to answer the question. I care about whether or not kids are safe. I care about whether or not kids are safe. Let me ask Mike a question. Mike, another simple question. Mike, did you care when athletes were caught cheating with drugs that gave them performance enhancement? Did you care about that? Like in the Olympics? Like, yeah, sure. Like in the Olympics. You did care. So you do care. Like Barry Bonds? So just to be clear. That's professional athletics.

56:01Piers Morgan:That's different. Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. So you do care when athletes have an unfair advantage. You care. Here's the thing, Piers. Yeah, sure. But I want to point this out. You opened this segment by talking about how Republicans are going to go back to the well and talk about the same stuff that there is. Mike, you either care or you don't about unfair advantage. This is another one of those things that they do where it becomes a culture war issue that they can distract because they don't want to talk about the economy being the best. It's a very simple question. They want to talk about the culture war and the relationship that divides people instead of things that actually have an impact on the lives.

56:33No, no, no, no. Answer the question. I didn't answer the question. I just don't like the answer.

56:38Piers Morgan:No, no, the truth. Wait a minute, please. The truth is, Mike, what you've revealed is, I'm afraid, total hypocrisy. You care about an unfair advantage in the Olympics or Barry Bonds or wherever it may be. You know, Lance Armstrong, you care about that unfair advantage. But you don't care when a biological male who has indisputable physical advantages over a biological female is allowed to compete in women's school. It's incredibly different when we're talking about Major League Baseball. We're talking about intramural volleyball for, you know, like teenage girls. No, it's the same principle. Same principle.

57:12This is not the most important issue in the country. You guys bring it up. Every single time I come on.

57:17Piers Morgan:No, no, but you only care when it's drugs. You don't care when it's the trans issue because you dare not speak your mind about that because you know it's unfair because you don't believe in unfair advantage. Clay Travis, let me bring you on this because you posted an open challenge to the WNBA. He said, I want to have a boys' high school team versus the WNBA Las Vegas Aces. I'll put$10 million on the line. The boys are going to win. We're going to put it on pay-per-view. Now, obviously, you're right, right? We know this because the women's soccer team, national women's soccer team, Megha Rapinoe, who wants to pack the women's team with trans women, only after she retired, I noticed she said that.

57:59Piers Morgan:But they got beaten by a Dallas, I think, under-15s team, about 7-1 or something, right? Obviously, now, I don't say that because I want to diminish women's sport. I just think you've got to keep them apart for that reason. Men are bigger. They're stronger. They're faster. They have bigger lung capacity. That is why in the Olympics, Mike, they separate the sexes, right? Which is fine. And if they didn't, how many medals? I'm talking about the role of the federal government, what the government should be doing. Yeah, but you think it's fine. No, he just asked for your opinion. You think it's fine.

58:27You're telling people who can or cannot play women's volleyball. I think that's weird. And I think it's a waste of time. Here's Morgan. Stop talking. Stop talking. Let me just hang on.

58:36Piers Morgan:Hang on. I'm just making the point that is why we separate the sexes to prevent unfair advantages. You won't answer his question. You do care about most of the time unless it's trans women. No, you didn't. Clay Travis, Clay Travis, I do think Mike's problem over this is indicative of the general problem around the one-left, right? They just can't say what is a basic fact. Yes, 100 percent. And Pierce, I'm going to have to jump out, so I don't want people to think I'm dodging this debate, because I would love to do it. My radio show starts in like three minutes. But here is the reality. Mike won't say it, and he's actually emblematic of many people on the left, because if they say that men are not women, the entire trans house of cards collapses.

59:21There's a difference. When we all grew up, people dressed up as trash show guys. You guys already knew material, or are we just playing the hits from 20 years? Be quiet. They didn't argue that they were actually women. If you want to dress up as a man and pretend to be a woman, or you want to dress up as a woman and pretend to be a man, that's fine. That's your life. As soon as you enter into sport, you're requiring me to lie. And here is why this matters. They won't just say, let's end it, right? If you're playing 12U and a 16-year-old shows up, every parent knows that's unfair. I've coached every sport, my boys.

59:55If anybody shows up who's out of age, you would end it. This is table stakes. I think it also ties in here in a big way. Once you lie to me about this, I can't trust you on anything else. Right. I can't trust you on tax policy. I can't trust you on Mideast because you've already lied to me about a basic biological fact and peers. That's why I think it resonates. That's why Thanksgiving resonates. Because if you want to cancel Thanksgiving, I can't trust you on anything else. That's why these things matter. Just on a baseline level, they cut through the noise. That's why I put$10 million on the table, Pierce.

1:00:32All these high school boys teams are reaching out to play. The WNBA won't respond. The Aces won't respond because they would get smoked. And this all started because WNBA coaches said they would welcome men identifying as women into the WNBA. I said, I want my own WNBA franchise, Pierce. We're going to call it the Nashville Balls. Our slogan, one love, two balls, greatest sports dynasty of all time, only trans players, men identifying as women. It would make the Jordan-era dynasty look like it would be even. I think Mike should put$10 million on the women. I think Mike should continue. I've got to know my show's starting right now.

1:01:15Pierce, love the show. Okay, Clay, we're going to leave the whole debate there.

1:01:21Piers Morgan:Thank you, Clay. Thank you to all of us on my panel. Thank you, guys. Very quickly. Yeah, just one final thought before we end this, if I'm even still on right now, is just I hope that everybody understands that what the Conservatives are doing is using this as a wedge issue so they don't have to talk about the economy anymore. That's what they want. Same shit they did in 2024. You know what, Mike? This is the problem, though. All you have to do when people say, should we get rid of Thanksgiving is no. When they say, should we get rid of the Pentagon, police and prisons, you say no. When they say, should we let biological men compete in women's sport, you just say no.

1:01:52Piers Morgan:And when you don't say no to that, everyone thinks you're nuts. I'm going to leave you there. Thank you all very much. The government shouldn't be telling the leagues what to do. The government shouldn't tell the WNBA who can play women's basketball. That's ridiculous. Do you think men should be competing against women, yes or no? I'm going to leave you there, guys. Thank you all very much. You're a coward. Thank you very much. OK. Well, finally, investigative journalist and YouTuber Nick Shirley traveled to Ceuta to document the border crisis when an unprecedented 60 ,000 migrants surged from Morocco into the tiny Spanish exclave.

1:02:23Piers Morgan:However, his trip quickly turned dangerous. Look, now we got people throwing clothes. No, no, no, no. Hey, Nancy! I then headed to the center of the town with the citizen vigilante, Manzia. However, within minutes we were chased out. So now people here to feel safe, they're walking around with their dogs because Muslims do not like dogs.

1:02:53Watch out, watch out, watch out.

1:03:00Now we got people throwing stuff at us.

1:03:05Piers Morgan:Well, Nick Shirley joins me now. Nick Shirley, welcome to Uncensored. You travelled to Ceuta, which most people talking about this haven't done. What do you think was really going on here? Well, I think right there you had a time when a lot of people felt like the border was open and they literally just ran right through that border. And the people I spoke to, the Moroccan migrants even, said the Moroccan authorities let them go through. And then from that point, somehow, the Spain military, like if you watch the videos, they quite literally opened up that border, some of those gates, and people just flooded into the country.

1:03:45Piers Morgan:You said in a recent interview, you were asked why you thought so many working-age men wanted to get into Europe. You said they want Islam to be everywhere. That's why they're coming to our country. There's no assimilation. They don't learn their language. This has been happening for years and years in Europe. This is a religious war. Would you categorise what you saw down in Sayuta as an example of that? Yeah, I would say there's definitely, it's interesting. I've heard a lot of people talk about, well, when a man comes and he flees a country, he brings his family. When he goes alone, he's going to war.

1:04:17And a lot of those individuals, they're 21 to 28 years old. They don't bring their wives. They don't bring a woman with them. And when I asked them, why not? They said, because Islam says they stay at home. That's what they told me. Right.

1:04:34Piers Morgan:I mean, that doesn't necessarily mean that the 60 ,000 people that poured over that border are going for reasons connected to their religion. It may explain why some of them left family members at home. But isn't it more likely, Nick, Shirley, that actually the vast majority just want a better economic life for themselves? That is certainly the case with most people, for example, who come into the UK illegally, as it turns out, most of them are young men who want a better life for themselves. It's not really driven by any particular ideology, including Islam. Well, the key word you give there is illegally.

1:05:15They're breaking the law. They come here illegally, and then what happens? They usually get put on our welfare systems, and that takes money from the people who are living in the country. legally and that's a problem.

1:05:27Piers Morgan:You know I completely agree with that I'm just saying that the categorization that you've laid down that you think that it's all about Islam that these people want to come in they don't want to assimilate they don't want to learn the language they want to basically I guess take over with their own form of culture and religion I'm just not sure that this is what we're seeing here with this situation in Sayuta you know you posted on Instagram as well Well, thousands of kids left completely stranded at the Spain-Morocco border. Do you think politicians realise when they open the borders, thousands of kids will get raped, trafficked and never see their parents again?

1:06:03Piers Morgan:The kids and teenagers all love Spain Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez for opening the border, but where will they go now? Now, you know, on that, a lot of people will say, God, that's outrageous, appalling. Yeah, of course it's disgraceful. But according to local data, a report about Daily Telegraph, there are between 826 and 862 unaccompanied migrant children currently stranded in Sayyutu. Now, that's a lot of kids, don't get me wrong, but it's not thousands and thousands, as you said. So is there a danger that we exaggerate this when there is a real problem that needs to be addressed, but it isn't as bad as people are making out?

1:06:40No, it's bad. Like the video footage I showed you, there's thousands of kids, and that's just in one part of that small little town. So there is quite literally thousands of kids that came across that border as well with the adults. And it's very sad, like the open borders, like it's actually very inhumane because like I said right there, a lot of kids will get raped, they'll get trafficked, they'll never see their parents again. And that's due to these politicians who open up these borders. And it's just a sad reality that takes place. A lot of people will get kidnapped essentially. They'll never see their parents again.

1:07:12Who knows what happens when they get inside those trafficking networks or what will happen to them.

1:07:17Piers Morgan:Almost all of the 60 ,000 migrants who came in in this huge surge from Morocco into Saudi. They've all been returned. So what do you feel the situation is on the ground now? Well, I was just there about two days ago, and there were still thousands of people there. And it was very interesting just to be driving around that town. You would look up in the mountain, and then all of a sudden you'd see a pack of people up there. You'd be interviewing. I'd be interviewing a lady, and all of a sudden two people would come out from the mountain. And so there's like thousands upon thousands of people. I don't have a clicker to count each and every single person.

1:07:53Yes, there's still thousands of people. I don't know what it's like today because I'm not there right now, but I'd imagine there's still a few thousand there. A lot of people had the mission to get into mainland Europe. So it'll be interesting to see how many of them actually make it into mainland. But I think the fact that just in one day, around 60 ,000 people were able to storm a border and come into a country, like that should be very concerning for Spain to think that in one day that is possible. And they show that it's possible because it happened.

1:08:25Piers Morgan:Yeah, you know what? It's completely outrageous. I couldn't quite believe what I was watching. And you've got people like Elon Musk who I think do exaggerate the situation in Europe. Certainly he does about England, I think. But when you look at scenes like that, it's hard not to argue with language like invasion. 60 ,000 people did invade that border. There's no question. Now, the fact most of them got returned pretty quickly is good, but it doesn't change the fact it happened in the first place. And I do think border control around Europe, around the world, actually, is a very, very big deal right now, and it's got to be taken more seriously.

1:09:04Piers Morgan:Nick Shelley, I appreciate you joining me. Thank you very much. Thank you, Piers. Piers Morgan, our sense that he's proudly independent, the only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.