In short
The episode is a debate about U.S. politics and free speech, plus a separate segment on the extradition/legal defense of Andrew and Tristan Tate.
Topic
Mehdi Hasan (Detail News founder) challenges Republican Rep. Nancy Mace over alleged Islamophobia and claims that “every single Muslim holding public office” is a “Trojan horse.” Mace argues she’s warning about “radical Islam,” citing incidents like Muslim women being asked to leave a Texas grocery store (Dasha Kilpatrick) and alleged Sharia-related community changes. They also argue over Gaza: Hasan says genocide claims are supported by many experts; Mace says there’s no evidence of genocide and praises pro-Israel pushback. They discuss whether Republicans/Democrats are using investigations/impeachments as “publicity stunts.”
Guests
Mehdi Hasan (journalist, founder of Detail News) and Rep. Nancy Mace (U.S. Republican congresswoman). Later: Andrew Ford and Adam Razzle (Andrew Tate’s defense lawyers).
Notable examples/claims
Cruz rhetoric and death threats; mosque attack in San Diego; Mace’s “Trojan horse” tweet; “I stand with Dasha” and Dr. Oz; Macklemore being dropped from Ed Sheeran’s tour; AIPAC spending in Michigan; Tate lawyers argue Romania charges aren’t new and complain about not knowing complainants’ names; they dispute “bullshit” claims about Tate’s luxury lifestyle and children count.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VODebate on Radical Islam and National Security
0:00 to 2:18
A heated exchange about radical Islam, racism, and national security concerns.
“Not even allowing me to speak is basically part of Sharia law.”
Navigating Islamophobia and Political Rhetoric
2:41 to 7:05
The guests discuss Islamophobia, radicalism, and the implications of statements made by Nancy Mace.
“As a woman, I will tell you, Pierce, I am terrified of radical Islam.”
Tensions Rise: Accusations and Responses
7:05 to 9:39
The debate escalates with personal accusations and a focus on public office and Muslims.
“This has been going on for over a decade, and it's only getting worse.”
Concluding Arguments on Islam and Politics
9:39 to 14:00
The discussion concludes with arguments about Islam, Sharia law, and political identity.
“And remember to tell them that I sent you.”
Political Rhetoric and Identity
14:00 to 18:00
A heated debate about political identity, Sharia law, and racism in politics.
“Even the governor of New York was in a hijab speaking to only men in a mosque days before the 25th anniversary of 9-11.”
Macklemore's Controversy and Free Speech
18:00 to 22:20
Discussion on Macklemore's removal from Ed Sheeran's tour and free speech implications.
“I'm just wondering why you'd put out a crazy video.”
Calls for Accountability in Politics
22:20 to 28:00
Debate over political accountability, impeachment, and the situation in Iran.
“No, I mean, this is the market doing what the market does and deciding what needs to happen with the consumers that it provides entertainment to.”
Political Commentary on Current Issues
28:00 to 31:42
Discussion on the current political climate and economic challenges faced by Americans.
“I do not stand with him on this publicity stunt to go after Pete Hegseth, and I hope, Mehdi, that he sues you for defamation.”
Legal Challenges of the Tate Brothers
31:42 to 42:00
Overview of the extradition case against Andrew and Tristan Tate, including charges and legal representation.
“Well, both Andrew and Tristan Tate have always fiercely denied all criminal wrongdoing.”
The Illusion of Andrew Tate's Wealth
42:00 to 43:19
Discussion on the fabricated luxury lifestyle presented by Andrew Tate.
“frequently appeared in their videos, but obviously it didn't belong to them, it turns out.”
Show all 16 chapters
Legal Costs and Client Credibility
43:20 to 45:29
Exploration of the legal expenses involved and the credibility of Tate's claims.
“In relation to the glamour and the glitz and the bogus items you're referring to, don't forget they've travelled across the Middle East.”
Andrew Tate's Prison Conditions
45:30 to 48:35
Examination of Andrew Tate's complaints regarding his prison conditions.
“Just to dovetail on that, Piers, you might not remember this, but we met a few years back at Lourdes and we had a very similar conversation about the professionalism of lawyers.”
The Serious Nature of Charges Against Tate
48:36 to 51:32
Discussion on the gravity and implications of the charges faced by Andrew Tate.
“And the fact that they were there in these poor conditions when they are unconvicted seemed unfair.”
Perceptions and Political Distancing
51:33 to 56:01
Analysis of how political figures have distanced themselves from Andrew Tate.
“a jury is not going to be easy in this case because it's a social media prosecution, Piers.”
Legal Proceedings and Extradition Updates
56:01 to 59:36
The discussion covers the ongoing legal challenges faced by the Tate brothers and the implications of extradition processes.
“There seems to have been a deliberate distancing there.”
The Case for Timely Court Resolution
59:37 to 1:00:11
Piers Morgan emphasizes the importance of bringing the Tate brothers' case to court for public clarity on the charges.
“You haven't done much media around this, and it's good to get some clarity about where the situation is.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Not even allowing me to speak is basically part of Sharia law. You're like jihad adjacent. Do you not respect women? Do you like dogs? Like I don't even know why you're even in this country many anymore. You're not just bigoted, you're mad. Staffers say you send them to buy you alcohol at two o 'clock in the morning. Why did you ask for two women to leave a grocery store, you racist? Now you're smearing me and defaming me. You asked two Muslim women. I am not an alcoholic. I just wonder, were you drunk at the time? That's not true. And now I'm rich. I can buy anything I want. and there's nothing to buy.
0:31Piers Morgan:You know what? Most of this is bullshit. I'm not sure it's all bullshit, Piers, as you put it. They were creating a bogus world of uber-luxury and glamour and so on. I'd say exaggeration is probably fair. I'd say bullshit. Maybe not. It's a difficult time to be a Republican strategist as the US prepares for pivotal midterm elections. Candidates can no longer rely on the strategy of doubling down on Trump or on the many common-sense crusades, which proved so popular in 2024. But they are betting that one page of the original Trump playbook can still make a dent. Radical Islam, they argue, is a grave threat to the United States, and it's now finding common cause with another old foe, communism.
1:14Piers Morgan:That's why, in a nationwide election, so much of their focus is on Mamdani, on Michigan's Abdul El Saeed, and on the streamer Hassan Paikah. Two of these men are not on the ballot. All three have faced intense scrutiny for their past comments on 9-11, among other things. And Republican Senator Ted Cruz teed up the whole fight as they see it in his RNC address. Communists and Islamists coming together and sweeping over the Democrat Party.
1:45They are united because they share the same enemies. They hate Christians. They hate Jews. They hate capitalism. They hate the Constitution. And they hate America.
2:04Piers Morgan:So do they have a point? Are the Democrats really beholden to a new Islamic communist alliance and other voters buying it? Joining me to debate all this is Mehdi Hassan, founder of Detail News, and the Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace. Well, welcome to both of you. Nancy Mace, a few weeks ago on X, you posted the following. every single Muslim holding public office in America is a Trojan horse and a threat to both national security and our republic. I mean, it's hard to see, I would argue, a better example of brazen Islamophobia than that, isn't it? As a woman, I will tell you, Pierce, I am terrified of radical Islam.
2:46I've seen what they've done in foreign countries when a woman shows her hair being stoned to death, being put to death. That's not the kind of ideology that I want to see here grow in the United States. And look at this, Pierce, days before the 25th anniversary of 9-11, we had the mayor of New York City give his pen that he signed the remembrance order over to a guy that defended a member of al-Qaeda. I mean, to see that happen 25 years later, to see animal sacrifices being approved by a local city council in Michigan, the words Al-Auahu Akbar being screamed death to America, screamed on the streets of America.
3:23That kind of thing is going on and it's growing and we've got to put a stop to it.
3:29Piers Morgan:All right, Mehdi Hassan, your response to that. A couple of things, Pierce. Thanks for having me on. Number one, it's interesting, you didn't play the clip from Ted Cruz at the RNC where he names Mamdani and Abdul Al-Sayed. And people in the crowd shout, kill them, shoot them. They actually shout out death threats. So that's how dangerous this rhetoric has become from the Republican Party, from people like Ted Cruz and Nancy Mace. We saw an attack on a mosque in San Diego in May of this year, Piers. I came on and talked to you about it at the time. Three Muslim worshippers killed in the middle of California by two neo-Nazis who were spouting the kind of stuff that Ted Cruz and Nancy Mace spout.
4:03it's very, very dangerous to say stuff like this in this sweeping, bigoted way. We know it's dangerous. We know that if you say it about another minority, it's dangerous. You wouldn't say that Jews should be banned from public office. And it's interesting that the congresswoman started her comments saying she's afraid of radical Islam. Lots of people are afraid of radical Islam. I'm afraid of radical Islam. I don't want to be killed by a Muslim terrorist like anyone else. But that's not what she said. She spent the last few weeks, just the last few weeks, forget the last few years, attacking Muslims in general, right?
4:34She has said that no Muslim American should hold public office in this country. They're all Trojan horses. That includes Republicans. Dr. Oz is Donald Trump's head of Medicaid and Medicare at the HHS. Should he not be allowed to hold public office? Is Dr. Oz a Trojan horse? Because he's Muslim. And she said no Muslims should hold that role. She said that not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims. She tweeted that. That's not true, obviously. The people in the IRA would be shocked to hear that. The Hindus in the Tamil Tigers, the Jewish settlers on the West Bank, the Christian domestic terrorists, according to the FBI, who attacked the Capitol on January 6th.
5:08The idea that only Muslims are terrorists is an absurd statement as well. And the worst of all is back in, I think it was in June, the congressman tweeted, I stand with Dasha. Dasha Kilpatrick is a woman in Texas who went into a Texas grocery store, stopped two Muslim American women doing their shopping and started shouting at them, telling them to get out of the country. They don't belong here. They should go back to their Islamic country. They're not welcome in Christian America. Nancy Mace tweeted, I stand with Dasha, which makes her a racist bigot. This is not about radical Islam. This is about eradicating all Muslim Americans from public life.
5:41So why are you asking two Muslim American women to leave the country? Nancy Mace, deal with what I just said. Before you attack me, deal with what I just said you said i stand with dasha do you stand with dasha do you stand with muslim american women well you want muslim american women released don't respect women i know you don't want muslim american women allowing me to you're the one who supports attacks on women in a texas grocery store because i'm not gonna let you gaslight i said something very specific two women in texas you call for them to leave the country why why did you ask you know shabria law doesn't let women the country.
6:15So I stand with Dasha. The true law doesn't give equality to women either. You want Muslim American women removed from Texas. Why? I'm asking a simple question. Why do you want two Muslim American women and Dr. Oz removed? This is not an isolated incident. I had, are you going to let the woman speak? I mean, like, you're like jihad adjacent. Do you not respect women? Do you like dogs? I can't even understand where you're going here. You want two women to leave a Texas grocery store. Why did you ask for two women to leave a grocery store, you racist? Why? I'm not racist. I'm American. I'm America first.
6:50Why do you support having two Americans removed from a grocery store? All right. Let her answer, Manny.
6:57Piers Morgan:You can keep. Don't talk over each other. Nancy Mace. OK, Nancy, respond to Manny's question. Well, I mean, this is just an example. and that he's anger toward me and the lack of respect as a woman not even allowing me to speak is basically part of sharia law that's my point here met you don't respect women that have opposite views and dash isn't the only christian woman who's had an interruption or been uh accosted by muslim women i lived in atlanta over a decade ago this is i was nursing an infant in the grocery store, minding my own business, and two Muslim women came up to me and asked me to leave.
7:36This has been going on for over a decade, and it's only getting worse. And I'm not going to sit here and allow someone, a hypocrite like Mehdi Hassan, who said some awful things. I don't even know why you're even in this country, Mehdi, anymore. You said after a plane crash that make American planes crash again. You said some really disgusting, hypocritical things, even after Charlie Kirk was assassinated. And you know that was a bad joke about Donald Trump crashing planes. You still haven't answered the question. Why do you support removing Dr. Oz? I'm not going to let you filibuster. If Piers wants to let you filibuster, that's fine.
8:12I said something specific. I quoted you and you've not responded. Why does Dr. Oz have to leave his job? Piers, you want to ask if you're not answering me? Piers, maybe she'll only answer the white man. Guys, guys, why are you? Hang on, please. Why does Dr. Oz have to leave his job? Honestly, when you're...
8:30Piers Morgan:All right, when you're both... Let me try and wrestle back some vestige of control here, because when you both talk over each other, no-one can hear a damn thing. The weather is turning, the leaves are browning, the rain is certainly pouring, and as summer begins to sadly fade in the rearview mirror, it's time to look for a silver lining in the changing of the seasons. My personal nomination is the Cosy Earth Bubble Cuddle Blanket and the Bamboo Bedsheet Set. The moment you put on this blanket, you will be overcome by its weighty softness. It may in fact cause a battle for custody in your home.
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9:43Piers Morgan:Mehdi raised an interesting point. It's Dr Oz. You say every single Muslim, not radical Muslim, but every single Muslim holding public office in America is a Trojan horse. Obviously, Dr. Oz holds a public office. Would you want him deported as a threat to national security and our republic? Well, I didn't say, Dr. Oz, should be deported. I do think that people that believe in radicalism... You said every single Muslim. I was talking about elected officials. I was talking about elected officials being Trojan horses because we're seeing towns taken over, starting in Michigan, going into Minnesota, taken over by...
10:24Piers Morgan:Right, but if... Sorry, but just to be clear on this, but to be clear on this, Ed, if Dr. Oz was to run for, you know, to be a senator or run for president or something, you would not want him to be allowed. He's not right now. He's not in Pennsylvania. He's not. No, no, but I'm talking about hypothetically. Hypothetically. I'm talking about... But Nancy, Nancy Mace, Nancy Mace, don't talk over me now. Don't talk over me now. It's a very simple question. You didn't say every single radical Muslim. you said every single Muslim. That's all of them. 1.62 billion people around the world. I didn't say every Muslim.
10:59I said elected Muslims.
11:00Piers Morgan:You said every single Muslim holding public office. You didn't say elected Muslims. Stop lying. I'm pretty sure I was elected officials as Trojan horses was the line. But go back and quote my tweet, Mehdi, as I'm sure you will. You're lying. I'm not a liar. You're lying. You said every single Muslim holding public office in America. Don't talk to each other. I can read it to you. I will read it. Please stop talking over each other. Guys, no one can hear this. Let me read it again so there's no room for ambiguity. What she actually posted was every single Muslim holding public office in America is a Trojan horse and a threat to both national security and our republic.
11:44Piers Morgan:You stand by that, Nancy Mace. Okay, holding public office is an elected position medi do you need a dictionary like come on that's what it's in reference to oh so cabinet members are not public officials nancy may say so so hold on hold on marco rubio is not a is marco rubio not a public official he's not a radical islamist are you really going to pass it off right now and we have people nice try you just lied again you just said you just said every public official is elected i caught you out again in a second lie marco rubio is a public official marco rubio is a Don't walk it back. Everyone can see your bigotry.
12:22Everyone can see your bigotry. That's what I said. Is Rubio a public official? You just lied to Piers Morgan and said a public official is elected. You got caught. You got caught being racist. You don't want to walk it back. You know the best part of you not wanting to walk it back? Five years ago you weren't this batshit crazy racist. You went on CNN. Piers, what's interesting is in 2021, Congresswoman Mace went on CNN after two of her colleagues, Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert, called Ilhan Omar, a member of the Jihad Squad. She went on CNN and said they were racist. They were disgusting.
12:52She suggested they were religious bigots, and she wasn't. She suggested they're grifters. Ironically, five years later, she's the racist grifter, and now MTG's calling out her racism. We've gone full circle. She doesn't even believe what she's saying. Five years ago, she knew that what she's saying now is racist. Five years ago, she said, Ramadan Mubarak. Let her respond.
13:11Piers Morgan:Let her respond. Please stop talking at the same time. What I was defending. Listen, look, there's no point, Nancy, there's no point having this debate if you both just shout over each other all the time. So, Nancy, respond to what Mehdi just said. Well, I was defending someone's First Amendment right to wear whatever piece of clothing they want to wear. Same thing with the words that you speak. Everyone has the First Amendment right to say what they want to say or wear what they want to wear. Now, fast forward five years later And we're seeing some of these radical things happening in our communities where people are pushing back on Sharia law type of things, where there's now animal sacrifices in Michigan, where the mayor of New York City days before 9-11 is giving a pen to a guy that defended Al Qaeda.
14:00Even the governor of New York was in a hijab speaking to only men in a mosque days before the 25th anniversary of 9-11. I find this offensive and I'm going to continue to speak out about it. I think it's gotten worse over the last five years. I think the political division has also made it worse. But we have to have people who are going to speak out and push back against this radical thing that's happening and starting to happen in towns across the country more so than ever before. OK, Mehdi, can I respond? Yeah, so it's interesting. She talks about Sharia law. There's no Sharia law. It's a boogeyman that the Republicans tried 15 years ago, and now they're doing it again.
14:35Why? Because gas prices are high. Nobody trusts them. They're losing in the polls. They're going to lose in the midterm. So they fall back on racism, bigotry and Sharia law. Which Sharia law? Zoran Mamdani and Abdul El-Sayed support Sharia law? I'm pretty sure they're more pro-gay than Nancy Macy's. They're more pro-transgender than Nancy Macy's. She has horrifically bigoted things to say about gay and transgender people. So the idea that they're pushing Sharia law is absurd. The idea that Kathy Hochul shouldn't wear a hijab in a mosque. Ivanka Trump wore a hijab when she went into a mosque. I don't remember Nancy Macy attacking Ivanka Trump for wearing a hijab.
15:07I don't remember her attacking Donald Trump for wearing a kippah when he went to a Jewish institution. So this is all absurd. Picking on Muslims to get votes, it's purely cynical. Because as I pointed out, and she avoided it, five years ago, she called much less rhetoric, much less bigger rhetoric from MTG and Boba. She called it racist. Can I finish it? Why are we talking over each other? Why can't I speak? Do you not let Muslims speak? I haven't finished yet. I didn't interrupt you. Let me finish my point. And then you can actually answer. You spent the last 15 minutes avoiding everything I said.
15:35You said, keep talking over me. Everyone can see you doing it. You said every single public official in America shouldn't be Muslim. I pointed out that Dr. Oz is. You said he's not elected. I said Marco Rubio is not elected. You dodged that point. So you got caught there. You got caught lying saying every terrorist is a Muslim. We all know that's not true. Everyone knows there are non-Muslim terrorists. Look at what's happening on the West Bank right now, which you support. And there are also Hindu and Christian and Jewish. What's really interesting is, Piers, if I can finish my point, Piers, if I can finish my point, Piers, without being talked over.
16:15Piers, if we're going to do the non-talking over, I was silent when she spoke. Then you can respond. She did not let me speak. Let me finish my point. I agree. And then you can try and respond. Okay, so let me make my point. She still hasn't responded as to why she supports a woman in a Texas grocery store attacking two Muslims, telling them to get out of the country. Two Muslim American women doing their shopping. Could be my wife or daughter. She supports attacking them. She supports banning Muslims from public office. And it's all cynical, Piers, because they're losing in the polls. This is all about elections.
16:43She's doing it because she wanted to win. Ironically, it didn't even help her. She came fifth in South Carolina. She came last in the governor's race. And Donald Trump didn't endorse her. Donald Trump said she's a nasty, terrible woman who's untrustworthy. For the first time in my life, I agree with Donald Trump. She is an untrustworthy, nasty woman. Donald Trump did not say that when I was running for governor. That's not what happened. Yes, he did. Exact words. He said that when you were running for Congress. He said that years ago. When you were running for Congress, he said that when you ran for governor, he endorsed your opponent.
17:11And you put out an AI video. You're so desperate. You put out an AI video. You put out an AI video pretending he endorsed you. I talked to the White House yesterday. You put out an AI video. Why did you put out an AI video pretending he endorsed you? Let me ask you. Were you drunk when you did that? Stop. It's on your Twitter right now. Anyone can go see it. It's a fake video of you and Trump. I want to ask. I want to ask a separate question about what's been in the news this week. It's a picture that was animated. Maddie, this is stupid. Like, your argument doesn't make any logical sense. Fake AI video on the day he endorsed your opponent.
17:51It's a picture that was animated. Everyone wondered why you did it. Trump endorsed your opponent. You lied and said he hadn't endorsed your opponent. I just wonder, were you drunk at the time? What was going on? Why would you post an AI video? Oh, well, now you've crossed the bar. Mad thing to do. Now you've crossed the bar. You're not just bigoted, you're mad. See, this is what happens when a man... I'm just wondering why you'd put out a crazy video. ...a woman. Now you're smearing me and defaming me on Pierce Morgan. You want two Muslim women ejected from a store in a grocery store. You haven't addressed that yet.
18:17I do not get drunk, I never said you were. And that's disgusting. I never said you were. Your former staff has said it. Your former staff has said you drink a lot. I never said that. That was animated. I never said that. Your former staff has told New York Magazine you drink all day long. I didn't say that. I said, were you drunk when you posted an AI video? But your staffers, your staffers say you sent them to buy you alcohol at two o 'clock in the morning. That's not true. That's what your staffers told New York Magazine. That's not true, Maddie. I don't know if it's true or not. That never happened.
18:46But that's what they said. Well, it's not true. Who said that? I never said that. They said that. Nobody said that. Your former comms director. Your former comms director said it. It's never happened. Your former communications director said you asked staff to go get drinks for you from the congressional liquor store while you're doing town halls. It's not true. No, no, there's a name on it. I can give you the name. You want me to give you the name? Take it up with her. Don't take it up with me. Her name is Natalie Johnson. Her name is Natalie Johnson. She says that you drank so much, she'd have interns and junior staff run to congressional liquor during the work day so she could imbibe during town halls.
19:22That's what she said. Take it up with your former comms director. She doesn't like you either. Donald Trump doesn't like you. She doesn't like you. And Muslims don't like you for being racist towards us. That is very disgusting, Mehdi, and not, not, not true. That's just that very disgusting attack on a woman who's trying to debate you about issues. I didn't say it was true. I simply said that's what your staff said. That are not true. That's what you're doing right now. You personally attacked me from the moment this began. You said I'm jihad adjacent at the beginning of the show. You liar. You said you called me jihad.
19:55You called me jihad adjacent. So please clutch your pulse somewhere else. You started the personal attacks. You've called for people like me and my wife and my kids to be attacked. Let me try and wrestle back control here. I want to ask one more question. Yes, it was a bad joke. If you could stop shouting the pair of you, please. It's like your bigotry that you don't apologise for. It was a bad joke that I apologise for. You're a bigot. You're a bigot. I have got one more question,
20:23Piers Morgan:but I'm not going to bother if you carry on. And sexist. I have one more question I'd like to ask, if it's not too much trouble for you to stop shouting, the pair of you, long enough to answer it. But we had the big story this week of Macklemore, the rapper, being dropped from Ed Sheeran's tour for speaking out about the treatment of Palestinians in Gaza. So the New England Patriots owner, Robert Kraft, basically organised a boycott among stadium owners over this. Mehdi Hassan, you know, it seemed to me pretty obvious if he'd been saying stuff that was pro-Israeli, there would have been no issue with Robert Kraft.
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21:01Piers Morgan:But because it was pro-Palestinian, even though it wasn't that incendiary what he was saying, all hell has broken loose. What does this tell you about where we are now in the discourse about this? It tells me that the United States right now under Trump is in a very authoritarian place where free speech is under attack. Journalists are getting arrested. And of course, the greatest victims of authoritarianism, of cancel culture, so-called quote unquote, the Republicans obsessed over for years, have always been Palestinians or supporters of Palestine. They're always the first people to get fired from Hollywood, to be silenced on stage.
21:33I'm glad a lot of other musicians have backed back more after Ed Sheeran's cowardice and after Robert Kraft's censorship. Robert Kraft being a right-wing pro-Israel billionaire whose name appears in the Epstein files who says Israel is one of his biggest issues. He comes along and silences this artist. I mean, what kind of world are we in where artists can't speak their minds? As you said, Pierce, there was nothing incendiary at all. He said free Palestine. He said he loves his Jewish brothers and sisters. He's against a genocide. And the problem now is, is that you have big money in American politics, which is deciding who can speak and who can't, who can get elected and who can't.
22:02Robert Kraft decides who gets to speak at a concert. AIPAC, which spent $30 million in Michigan trying to defeat Abdullah Said, I think has given over 100 grand to Nancy Mace. AIPAC is trying to decide who should get elected to Congress. You know, we're losing our freedoms in this country.
22:17Piers Morgan:Nancy Mace, did you see a problem in what Macklemore said? No, I mean, this is the market doing what the market does and deciding what needs to happen with the consumers that it provides entertainment to. And that's his right to be able to do that. I'm just glad that someone is pushing back against the false narrative about genocide in Gaza. There's no evidence of genocide in Gaza. And pushing back against people who want all Jews dead. I mean, this is a very dangerous movement. Synagogues are being targeted. Jewish people can't leave their homes because of the way that they're being targeted.
22:51And I'm glad to see that he did push back against this and stood up for Jews, stood up for America, stood up for Israel. And I think I got more than 100 ,000 many. I think it was 138 ,000. And clearly it wasn't enough. Hope you're proud. America first. Piers, I do hope Macklemore doesn't decide to sue Nancy May. She just suggested he wants to kill all Jews, which is an absurd thing. Of course Macklemore doesn't believe that. No one believes that. It's the ideology. You said I'm glad people are pushing back. Literally, you cannot tell the truth for 60 seconds. It is crazy to me. Well, Macklemore is the person who was silenced.
23:28He doesn't want to kill Jews. nor does anyone who's fighting for Palestinian justice. I didn't say he did, Mady. I didn't say he did. And as for the evidence of genocide, as I stated in my response, pushback against the narrative that there's genocide in Gaza, there's not. You are a liar, Mady. Period. Point blank. You can't even tell the truth. The genocide quote-unquote narrative is one that's backed. Let me remind you of yours. I've done it before, and I know you and I had this conversation. The vast majority of human rights groups, including Israeli human rights groups, say it's a genocide.
23:57The vast majority of genocide scholars, including the International Association of Genocide Scholars say it's a genocide. All of the UN investigators that looked into this, including the Independent Commission of Inquiry, says it's a genocide. The former deputy head of Mossad says it's a genocide. The former Prime Minister of Israel says it's a war of extermination. The evidence is overwhelming. We're seeing Palestinians being killed every day. Over 1 ,000 Palestinians killed just since the so-called ceasefire, let alone before it. So you don't want to call it a genocide. That's fine. But most experts who have looked at it say it is a genocide.
24:23People are being mass killed. And you don't care about the death of 20 ,000 Palestinian children. That's fine. We already know that you're racist. You're a racist towards Muslims and Palestinians. You don't want anyone in your country around the world in places like Nigeria than in Gaza, period. And that's where our priorities should be. That's just not true. The numbers don't even come anywhere close. Every two and a half hours, a Christian in Nigeria is killed. That's a fact, Mehdi. And over 18 ,000 churches have been burned. I'm not in favor of killing anyone anywhere. I'm not like you. I don't support illegal foreign wars or take money from AIPAC.
24:54I'm against all killing, but the idea that Palestinians are allowed to be killed because you get money from AIPAC to support that war is absurd. You want to look my record up the next time you debate me? You oppose. Nice try. Nice try, Congressman. Nice try again. Let me fact check you. So stop lying. I'm so glad. I'm so glad you mentioned that. I'm so glad you did. Because, of course, when the war began, you supported Donald Trump. You refused to vote for the War Powers Act. You said, let him finish the job. So I'm glad you've caught up with the rest of us. Maybe you'll catch up with the rest of us on your bigotry and stop being a bigot.
25:25Before they have to declare war, before they have to come to Congress, every president has been given at least 90 days to come to Congress to declare war. We're now at seven months, and now it's time for the president to come to Congress and declare war. I'm glad you've come around. I'm glad you realized you were wrong. We've given Trump the same grace that we've given President Obama, everybody else before him, and now is the time to do that. That is the honest answer and the honest vote, which is what I took. I'm not going to sit here and spew lies like you are.
25:55Piers Morgan:You already lied to me. Let me just ask you finally, Medhi, about this push by Thomas Massey to impeach Pete Hegseth for the illegal, as he puts it, the illegal war in Iran. Interestingly, he's going after Hegseth and not President Trump, who you would assume might be a bigger target for this, given he was the one that took the actual decision. Obviously, it probably hasn't got much chance of success, this. But what does it tell you about what may happen post the midterms, should the Republicans, as many think may happen, if they lose both the House and the Senate, are we going to just be stuck then into endless stuff like this?
26:39Piers Morgan:And what happens? No, it's a great question. I think that he made a very strategic move, which is probably more support for impeaching Hexner than Trump. I don't think either will get a majority. But the reality is a lot of Republicans are very upset with Pete's Texas. I think most Republicans, I'm pretty sure Nancy Mace, even if she doesn't say it, know he was never qualified. This weekend Fox host with a drinking problem to run the Pentagon. He's done a horrific job of it. The Iran war is a disaster. We're seven months into a war with no end in sight after the president promised us no forever wars.
27:09He's murdering people out in the Caribbean, blowing up boats. We don't even know who are on those boats. Double tap strikes. of course is a huge case for impeaching. But to take your underlying question, Piers, I hope that the Democrats, when they control Congress, if they control Congress, will actually have substantive investigations, not just performative votes. But we need to know, quote unquote, or even literally where the bodies are buried. We need to understand what's happened with the Epstein files, what's happened in the Caribbean, what happened with Iran, what's happened with all the corruption that we're seeing from this Trump administration and all the self-dealing.
27:40That's what Democrats need to hold hearings on and actually investigate, because Mike Johnson has given up on his job as being any kind of check or balance or third branch of government. Nancy, what is your response? Mike Johnson has done a wonderful job as Speaker of the House, and while I have stood with Thomas Massey on the Epstein files and the Epstein petition, I do not stand with him on this publicity stunt to go after Pete Hegseth, and I hope, Mehdi, that he sues you for defamation. That is a gross thing to say. You're just using the alcohol as an excuse to smear anybody on the right right now, which is ridiculous.
28:14But I support him. I think he's doing the best job that he can. These are difficult times. That's why I voted for the War Powers Resolution last night. We are seeing gas prices up, grocery prices up. The feds may hike rates today, which will mean for every hardworking American, their mortgage is going to be more expensive. Car loans are going to be more expensive. Diesel is going to go up. I mean, these are real problems. And I blame both Republicans and Democrats for the debt that we're in, for the deficit we have to see every year, for what's happening with the cost of living. I represent a congressional district in the fastest growing state in the nation right now.
28:50And when I got my ass kicked in the governor's race, I talked to a lot of seniors while I was running and hearing story after story of seniors being kicked out of their homes that they paid for their entire lives, hoping to retire in this home that they bought that can't afford it because taxes are too high, because the cost of groceries is too much. They can't make it anymore. And so seeing that has been very, very difficult. But I blame both Republicans and I blame Democrats. And, you know, the point of this is we're supposed to be making their lives easier when all we're doing is growing government and making it more difficult for hardworking Americans, for retirees, people that want to have a family, work and retire.
29:28I think in the greatest nation in the world, we have made it difficult for all of them, made it worse and not better. And I hope that when we get through the midterms, Meddy and Pierce, that, you know, we can actually focus on the things that matter, that we're not doing investigations for publicity stunts because both Republicans and Democrats are notorious for doing that. I do fear we're going to have impeachment after impeachment after impeachment and get nothing done. But these are very serious times and deserve very serious responses for what's going on in this country. And I think the disaster that Congress is, states are going to have to take a greater role in stepping up.
30:02Piers, can I just say very importantly here, because Nancy Mace after finally, very briefly, Nancy Mace after implicitly defaming McElmore, suggesting I'm defaming people just to be clear. I'm not saying any of this. New York Magazine. Hold on. Can I finish a freaking sentence? New York Magazine. New York Magazine is the one who published your former staff as accusing you of drinking too much. The New Yorker published a story. The New Yorker published... Fair enough. New Yorker published a story suggesting Pete Hexer was so drunk he was pulled out of a bar. The New Yorker... I can't sue them. Go sue them then.
30:34They haven't sued them so far. The New Yorker... I can't. The New Yorker magazine published a... Can I finish a sentence? The New Yorker magazine published a piece suggesting Pete Hexer... I'm going to finish a sentence because it's factual accuracy. The New Yorker magazine published a piece accusing Pete Hexer of getting so drunk That he said kill all Muslims. That was in New Yorker magazine. Do you know what? And the Congress. You'll notice, Piers. You'll notice, Piers. Do you not let me speak at all? Do you not let me speak at all, Piers?
31:02Piers Morgan:Do you know what? I just want to... Let me just say I need a drink after that. I'm going to go and probably get drunk to get over this. Well, join Kashmir. I will say thank you. Piers. Hey, Piers, what's your favourite drink? I'm going to go and have a drink. What's your favourite? I think right now I'm probably looking at a large Jack... Probably a large Jack Daniels and Coke, to be honest with you. Matty, what's your favourite drink? Well, I'm an evil Muslim, so I can't drink. I only drink Coke Zero. OK. I like a little red wine, Lambrusco. Nancy? Well, I like a bit of red wine too. Maybe I'll have that as well.
31:38Piers Morgan:I need a lot of alcohol after this. Thank you both very much indeed. Thank you, Piers. The British government has officially filed papers to request the extradition of the Tate brothers from the United States except there's a total of 59 charges in the UK, including rape, sex trafficking and indecent images of a child. Well, both Andrew and Tristan Tate have always fiercely denied all criminal wrongdoing. They also intend to fight their extradition, although hopes of a presidential reprieve from Trump appear to be over. And while they wait for a lengthy legal battle to play out, the brothers remain locked up in a Florida jail.
32:10Piers Morgan:A federal judge in Miami denied their bail, arguing that their apparently extravagant wealth made them a flight risk. Whilst an initial blaze of publicity following the arrest, The Tate's lawyers have kept their legal strategy under wraps. Been an exclusive first interview since the extradition process formally began. His two leading defence lawyers, Adam Razzle and Andrew Ford, join me now. Well, welcome to both of you. I appreciate you coming on on Censored to talk about this. And Andrew Ford, let me start just really by, I guess, laying out how it looks on the face of it. It looks like it's been a pretty devastating few weeks for the Tate brothers.
32:44Piers Morgan:They lost their bail case in Miami. The UK has now officially filed extradition papers. They're facing shocking new charges in Romania. I mean, it couldn't be going a lot worse, could it? Well, Piers, I think the Romania point's a slight red herring. The reason there's further charges in Romania is because that case has been returned to the prosecutor to review based on procedural irregularities, which unfortunately seems to be a bit of a common theme in relation to this matter. that. So that's a slight red herring. They're not new charges. In relation to the bail in the US, the test is a high bar.
33:25So that was always going to be a difficult argument. And the fact that they were arrested on preventative arrest in the first place by US marshals at the request of the UK, it's no surprise perhaps that the UK now have formally requested that extradition. And And we now wait to see whether or not they or what's contained within the evidential pack, which we're yet to see, and whether or not we're furnished with information like the names of the complainants, because it's very difficult, Pierce, to prepare for a case when you don't know who the complainants are against you. We're not asking for public announcements of the name.
34:01We're asking for the defendants, as they will be, to know the names of the complainants so that we can prepare our case and so that we can preserve evidence to support our case. and I know you're a fierce proponent of due process, Pearson, and that's all we ask for.
34:17Piers Morgan:Yeah, no, I 100 % am. I mean, Adam Razzle, I am a proponent of that and I've always said about the Tates, I don't know whether they're guilty or not. I do believe in due process. The whole process with them appears to just be dragging on for year after year after year and then gets more complicated as more charges are thrown and so on and so on. You know, the overwhelming impression being created by the legal process so far is that the charges against them are incredibly serious. There are a lot of them, a lot of different people making claims against them, and that their chances of getting off all this seem to be pretty small.
34:58Piers Morgan:How confident are you that ultimately they will be acquitted of everything? Well, firstly, Piers, thank you for having us today. in relation to the takes exclusively they've always been from day one adhering to the romanian case and investigation and the build-up over time has built up of several counts several charges we're confident in the british system we're british born and bred the legal process and once this case and if this case gets to the uk it's over to a jury where we have the opportunity to battle fairly, properly and professionally. I think with respect to both the brothers to date, they've had Romania lawyers, they've had coverage of Romania, coverage in the US, and it's an opportunity now to see how the UK team work.
35:47And you know, Piers and Andrew and I, similarly, that the US system, Romanian system, is very different to the UK, and we have faith in our defence and we're confident. And what I would say, Piers, which is very important, is it's very easy to make an allegation against someone. It's very easy to give a statement, but it's very difficult to give evidence in court and stand by what you say, and that's where we want to be.
36:13Piers Morgan:Yeah, I mean, Andrew Ford, it's interesting, as part of their Miami bail application, the Tate defence team argued they weren't a flight risk with the means and motive to skip bail because none of what we see is real. It's all exaggerated.
36:55They said,
36:57Piers Morgan:if you sub that down, I'm a former editor of a newspaper, it's like, you know what, most of this is bullshit. They're just massively exaggerating or inventing stuff to create a false persona. Now, the issue with that is it might help them legally, although it didn't with the bail application, but what does that send the message to the people paying money, for example, to have them teach them if it's all built on sand, if it's all just bullshit? well I'm not sure it's all bullshit Pierce as you put it but I think the the important thing in relation to their means when it comes to the bail hearing is that they've had those means for many years they've had those means for two years where they've been on bail from Romania and adhered to every aspect of those Romanian bail conditions so what's perhaps more significant is is not someone who is not flight risk because they don't run away because they don't have the means is somebody who has the means but then opts to adhere and comply with those bail conditions rigorously.
37:59So I would say exaggeration is probably fair. I'd say bullshit, maybe not.
38:06Piers Morgan:OK, but let's just go through some of these, Adam. You know, Andrew Tate publicly claimed in 2023 in a podcast that he had 10 to 12 children. In the official court findings that came out of the Miami extradition, it's actually three. So he's exaggerated the number of children he has by up to four times as many. Why would he do that? I mean, what's the point of that, if it's so easily provable that it's nonsense? I think what we've got to go back to is when these boys went from no social media coverage to huge amounts of social media coverage, and we all know in social media there is exaggeration, there are facts which are not necessarily right or accurate but the main fact here is the differentiation between a criminal investigation and facts about children uh doesn't cross over the main issue for us from day one peers and i think the most important point is why are we here we're here because there are allegations against our clients they wish to face the allegations they will defend them rigorously the facts and omissions of what they make in social media then becomes a social media prosecution and there's one thing Piers I think is really important which Andrew touched upon is when we come back to looking at the UK legal system this is a matter for a jury so whatever happens outside this call or on social media or opinions for the lawyers comes down to the courtroom where we have faith that the legal system won't be interested in how many children he had we'll be interested in the facts of what the victims or alleged victims say against the defence of the Tates, this is the first time you've seen Andrew and I on a call, on a video in relation to this, because we've been working rigorously, focusing on the actual result, as opposed to wanting our profiles all over media.
39:58And that's the important bit, to act professionally and put our faith in the jury. And that's the most important factor, Piers.
40:06Piers Morgan:Well, yeah, I think, Andrew Ford, it's certainly true that what happens in a courtroom is obviously the most important thing. But all this stuff does go to their credibility. You know, apart from inventing nine children he doesn't have, it was also revealed that the high-end luxury items that they constantly post about as being theirs, like a$7 million customized Bugatti Chiron, a$2.1 million Aston Martin, these weren't actually owned by the Tates. They were rented or corporate leased. that's been what emerged in these filings again. Is that correct? They didn't own any of these cars? I'm not sure I could afford to rent a Bugatti.
40:48I think you've still got to have some wealth about you to be able to rent or hire or whatever a Bugatti says.
40:55Piers Morgan:Sure, but it's whether they own it or don't. I mean, if they don't, they don't, but they've always claimed they did. I think they've read... I'll accept the fact they probably readily conflated the two, Piers, throughout, but exaggerating that doesn't affect their credibility when it comes to give evidence at court. It's worth noting, just to double tell on that. OK, but there's a... Sorry. Yeah, go on. Thank you, Piers. I was just saying, in relation to that, Piers, in the last five years, Andrew and I have been involved in SFO, HMRC cases where good people like yourself have paid posts online or presenters of cars and bags, and all of a sudden they're faced with proceeds of crime applications, where did that come from?
41:39I'm not saying it's excusable. What I'm saying is it puts on a cover of glamour, which isn't necessarily true, but I don't think it's something which prejudices their credibility. I think credibility will come down to...
41:52Piers Morgan:No, I get that, but it's also, as I said, a lot of this is just bullshit. I'm just saying that as a statement of fact. Like, there's a$50 million super yacht, the Obsidian Blade, frequently appeared in their videos, but obviously it didn't belong to them, it turns out. They were paid to promote the vessel on social media. And there were a lot of assumptions about Andrew Tate's luxury watch collection, for example. It turns out, again, that he doesn't own most of this stuff. I guess the point I'm making, Adam, is that, you know, when I say it's bullshit, What I mean is they were creating a bogus world of uber luxury and glamour and so on, which I always suspected was bullshit.
42:38Piers Morgan:A lot of it was massively exaggerated or simply invented. One of the problems here is as you take these guys into a courtroom, their honesty and credibility are going to come to the fore. and I can imagine a prosecuting lawyer will leap on all this stuff and say, well, look, the whole thing is fake, right? How can you believe a word these guys say about anything? So I do think it goes to their credibility. If someone's prepared to just brazenly lie on social media to millions of people about how many kids he has or what cars he owns or yachts he owns or watches he owns, it does go to credibility, doesn't it?
43:14Piers Morgan:I mean, it would be naive to think it doesn't. I wouldn't say it's bullshit. I understand the point. If you turn to the amount of children he has, I think we've got clients outside the Brothers who will talk about how many people in the family and children to mask privacy because that's an issue. In relation to the glamour and the glitz and the bogus items you're referring to, don't forget they've travelled across the Middle East. They've travelled across parts of Dubai where other influencers will piggyback and offer cars, watches, please put this post out, do this for us. So there is a smoke grenade there.
43:47I understand the point to an extent, but if a prosecutor is relying on that point to convict our clients, then I'll be quite happy about that.
43:56Piers Morgan:Yeah, no, I think obviously, as I said, there's going to be a lot more serious things for them to answer than these. In terms of their actual wealth, though, Andrew Ford, I would imagine this legal stuff is costing them a lot of money. are they good for that money? Are you guys all getting paid on time and what you should be paid? Are you doing any of it pro bono for them? And what's the deal? No, we're all good. We're well looked after and we're in a position to make sure their defence are being properly prepared. So yeah, we're not going to discuss that in too much detail for obvious reasons, but we're okay.
44:36It's not a cheap process and that's case in point as to why it's not a complete faux impression. There's legal teams across three different jurisdictions, which is not a cheap process, especially when you're incarcerated and your ability to be able to earn revenue is massively depleted.
45:01Piers Morgan:I mean, look, you guys come over as, you know, just perfectly normal lawyers to me. I've dealt in America, Joseph McBride, seems to see his role as being a kind of showman. How helpful is that in all this? Would it not be more helpful if his legal team in America adopted the kind of persona that you guys have, a bit more serious about everything and less that this is all some form of weird entertainment? I think there's horses for courses, Pierce, and you're probably happy you've got a couple of bricks on rather than the more American-orientated approach, perhaps, but ultimately this is going to come down to a trial in the UK and the UK approach is perhaps different to what you might expect in America.
45:46Just to dovetail on that, Piers, you might not remember this, but we met a few years back at Lourdes and we had a very similar conversation about the professionalism of lawyers. And when it comes to how we approach things, we don't cut corners, we do things about the book. The US team, I'm sure they do, but we're not here to make a song in a dance we have people in our circles and who have faced criminal investigations pre-charge released under investigation and i just think it's appropriate and maybe very british of me to say to act a certain way integrity upheld at all times and there's no need to shout from the rooftops and for us that's the approach we'll always take and i appreciate the persona comment pierce especially from you.
46:32Piers Morgan:Right, well, obviously, it's the complete antithesis of your clients who have always shouted from the rooftops because that's part of their business model. What's been interesting has been how much Andrew Tate in particular, and I'll come to you, Andrew, on this, has been complaining on social media about his prison conditions. This was a post from September the 8th, so about a week ago. Someone in general population stabbed another inmate and was dragged to the SHU punishment unit and put in the cell next to me. No commissary, no television, no phone calls, no pillow. Guantanamo Bay conditions.
47:05Piers Morgan:He screamed all day and banged the door all night, begging to go back to the general population. After seven days, his punishment was complete for stabbing someone and released back to the general population. I've been in the SHU unit for 51 days and counting, not seven days, 51 days. I have no criminal case in America. I've been respectful to every guard. The warden said the order to keep me in SHU comes from above. I gather my chi. I sit in lotus position in the dark for eight hours gathering my powers. I can survive. But the question is, I'm an American citizen with no criminal accusations in this country.
47:38Piers Morgan:I'm being accused of a Me Too from 15 years ago in England, a country which clearly hates me. Who signed off on this? Why do they want me in SHU? You know, my question would be, how prudent is it for Andrew Tate to be posting stuff like this, playing the victim, complaining about his conditions and stuff, when it could have a material effect on how he's treated? The reality is the conditions are thoroughly unpleasant. There's an hour of daylight a day, which is the same hour of exercise a day. Most people that would struggle in those conditions. I think that's fair to say. I'm not going to sit here and try and garner any sympathy for Andrew Tate because I'll be on to a loser.
48:22I'm fully aware of that. But what we do ask for throughout the process is fairness. So when the bail application was made, conditions of confinement were a big issue of that bail application, i.e. they are in the shoe unit, segregated housing unit, which is there to be a punishment. And the fact that they were there in these poor conditions when they are unconvicted seemed unfair. Though in the lead up to the bail hearing, the Department of Justice gave them orderly status, which gave them a bit more time out of their cell, and they gave them commissary, which is some extra food, a radio, that type of thing.
49:04They had the hearing. They made a big song and dance out of that during the course of the hearing to the judge. The following day, they removed both of those things. So I think we would be naive to think there wasn't some slightly atypical approach towards the Tate brothers rather than any other potential defendant.
49:24Piers Morgan:OK, and Adam, how is Andrew Tate posting this stuff? I mean, he's even been posting poetry. You know, recently posted, I fell to bits because of the rose. What should I do with the rose garden without you, oh, my beloved? What should I do with life and the world? All very poetic. but how is he doing all this? Has he got a phone? Has he got a computer? How is he posting? And is your honest legal advice to him that it's sensible to keep posting on social media given the gravity of the charges he's facing and the fact that he's incarcerated and wants people to think he's got extremely draconian conditions?
50:00You know, Piers, you're well-seasoned in the media and entertainment world and one good thing about our position from the UK legal team is we have no involvement with posts. who have no involvement with their agents or family members. They won't have phones, they won't have laptops with them. But any family member who has logins or those things, we're not involved in. The focus on us is to concentrate on the case, not what they're posting.
50:24Piers Morgan:Right, but have you encouraged Andrew Tate to stop posting? I think that's a bit like an oxymoron. I think he's been posting for many years through himself or third parties. We don't comment on what he posts. We can only guide people, Piers, as you know, about what they should or shouldn't do. We're brought in to focus on the UK legal case. And if this case arrives in the UK, I think if you re-interview us again at some stage, once this case starts, we'll be able to give you more definitive answers about what the actual charges are. Because there's one issue in this case, Piers, which is important to bring to your attention.
51:00It's very easy, as we all know, to make an allegation. but you know they're leading cases maybe a few years back in manchester where alleged victims went the whole distant and when they went the distance and it failed at court there are fresh perverting the course of justice charges against the victims and i'm not saying that's the case here but i actually think that once this case gets to the uk you'll be able to interview us more about what this case is about and i think you'll be surprised against the amount of allegations against the facts of the case and i think that's important and fairness and panelling a jury is not going to be easy in this case because it's a social media prosecution, Piers.
51:40Piers Morgan:Well, it's not a social media prosecution. That's a sideshow to the actual prosecution, Andrew Ford. And the truth is, in the UK, they're facing 59 charges now, including rape, trafficking, prostitution, indecent images of children. These are very serious charges, and there are a lot of them. And look, as I said at the start, it may be they're completely innocent of all the charges, but no one can dispute the gravity of the charges or the gravity of the potential punishment if they're found guilty. If they're found guilty as charged, then I suspect neither will come out of prison for decades. Absolutely.
52:20Nothing that we say is intended to diminish the seriousness of the allegations against them. That doesn't make them true. They are serious allegations by their very nature. Let me give you an example. You touched on the indecent images allegations. These emerge from, and when I talk about the process being slightly atypical, this is a good example. These emerge from devices seized from Andrew in 2015. Andrew, no further action was taken four years later against Andrew when the police were in possession of those devices It's perhaps beggars belief to think that it's fair that after those devices were destroyed in 2019 that they then bring charges in relation to what was on the devices which they destroyed in 2019 So there is a story behind all of these charges and for now it's very one-sided in terms of what's out there in the media but there is a story behind them and and those defences will be presented at the right time I wouldn't get drawn into the trap of thinking just because there's 59 charges that they are all credible and they're all going to be made out or even that that quantity is something that we can even even base it on criminal charges is all about quality of the evidence rather than quantity of the charges.
53:43Piers Morgan:And Adam, Tristan Tate, in his own post on his ex-account, accused the US penal system of housing him and his brother as political prisoners of the failing British state. What does he base that on? In relation to what he posted, what he said, I don't know. In relation to Britain or England itself, the comments are not helpful. There's no hiding that. What I would say is when you've gone from being incarcerated in Romania, released, then traveling and then arrested, then going into another prison, people act differently. People say things, Pierce. And you know, I know when there are pending criminal investigations or requests to return to the UK from the US, there are things people say which they regret.
54:27And I'm not here to say I might be a good defense lawyer, Pierce, but I don't pretend that I have a magic wand to dispel people's comments. One thing I would say, Piers, which is very useful about Andrew's comments about the charges, it's important to understand one thing. When people make charges and when they come to court and when you get an indictment, those charges have to be stood by. The evidence has to be presented. We've been representing the brothers now over maybe around two to three years. And we've been asked so many times, Piers, to talk about their defence, talk about what's the next steps.
55:01if we represented you peers I would never talk about someone's defense I'm confident about what we will do and what we will achieve and it's not an arrogant comment it's the fact that we spent so long working on every aspect of the case and what we don't want to do is put live where we're going to go with this what the steps are what the defense is I'm keen for it to get into the UK court simply because they have an opportunity to defend themselves and I think once that starts and it's obviously, for public viewing, I think the world may see a different side of this case. And that's easy for me to say as a defence lawyer, but it's also easy for me to say as a human, because we do exist.
55:39We're not all bad lawyers.
55:43Piers Morgan:And finally, Andrew Ford, obviously, there was a time when politicians like Nigel Farage praised Andrew Tate for being an important voice for emasculated young men, giving them confidence and so on. You know, the Trump world was pretty on side as well with the Tate brothers for a while. There seems to have been a deliberate distancing there. Is there any hope, Andrew Ford, of Donald Trump intervening at any stage in this, do you think? Or is that now being parked as never going to happen? It will be delegated to Marco Rubio and we'll see. That's still a bridge that they've got to cross. they've also got a they've also got a look at the chronology when doing so so as a as an exclusive for you pierce we have started the process of a judicial review to challenge the uk's decision to seek extradition um in march 2024 romania made an order to agree to extradition back to the uk but once romanian proceedings are concluded we've already spoken about the fact that those proceedings haven't yet concluded.
56:51So our argument in that judicial review is and will be that is an unreasonable step to take because it's going to deprive them of their opportunity to be exonerated in Romania, which in turn is going to impact upon their ability to be able to defend themselves in the UK. Why, when Andrew and Tristan had travelled many times to the US, to Dubai, to all of these countries with extradition treaties with the UK, they didn't seek extradition sooner? I don't know. And there is no logical answer to that question. So we will be judicially reviewing that decision. And it will be interesting to see how that plays out.
57:35So in answer to your question, it may not reach the executive. We may have other means of stopping it before it gets to that stage.
57:43Piers Morgan:But would the purpose of the review be that they could resist being extradited? That they would be extradited, but once Romanian proceedings are concluded. So going back to status quo as it was before they were arrested in Miami in July 2026. So that has been the position. The brothers have been very keen to respect the Romanian proceedings. It seems as though the CPS have not offered remaining the same courtesy. Skip the queue. If you fail in the review, just to be clear, finally, Adam, just to be clear about the chronology here and the timeline. Like I said at the start, this has taken years already.
58:21Piers Morgan:As things stand, if the judicial review fails, then what is the sequence of events here that we can expect and what would the likely timeline be of this in terms of when we can expect to see it? It's something Andrew and I discuss on a daily basis, which is if the extradition is successful and the brothers are sent back or sent to the UK, the chronology events will come down to remand, prison availability, courts. I think it will go into 2027, Piers. I cannot see the brothers being sent to the UK this side of the year. That's just based on the US system, not the UK system. there's also another issue um which i think you talked about many years ago but back in 2020 um we had covid and we're still dealing with the courts we'll go back to what i said about 15 minutes ago panelling a jury in this case is going to be difficult it's i don't know how that's going to be achieved it will obviously has to be but it'll take time so i think andrew and i think together 2027.
59:28I'd be surprised, but we're ready if they are brought again in 26, but I think 27, Piers.
59:36Piers Morgan:Well, listen, I appreciate you both coming on. You haven't done much media around this, and it's good to get some clarity about where the situation is. And as I've said to Andrew Tate when I've interviewed him numerous times, I don't know. I don't know if he's guilty or not. I do know he's facing very serious charges. I actually think it's in everybody's interest that this gets into a courtroom sooner rather than later and everyone can see the evidence, they can see the prosecution, they can see the defence, they can see the British justice system working and ultimately get clarity about whether they're guilty or not.
1:00:12Piers Morgan:But I appreciate you two coming on today to talk me through it. Thank you very much. Thank you, Travis. Take care. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.
1:00:49Thank you.
From the publisher
Thomas Massie lost his Kentucky primary after AIPAC spent $35 million against him and Donald Trump branded him "the worst Republican Congressman in history."
And, as Republicans gear up for pivotal midterm elections by targeting what they claim is an "Islamic-Communist alliance", founder of Zeteo News Mehdi Hasan squares off against Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace in a debate over American identity, political rhetoric, and election strategy.
Then; in an exclusive interview since the extradition process formally began, leading defence lawyers Adam Rasul and Andrew Ford speak out on behalf of Andrew and Tristan Tate as they face 59 charges in the UK while held in a Florida jail.
Piers Morgan is proudly independent and sponsored by:
Cozy Earth: Head to http://www.cozyearth.com and use code PIERS for up to 20% off home and sleepwear
(00:00:00) Introduction
(00:02:12) Mehdi Hasan and Nancy Mace debate radical Islam
(00:20:35) Macklemore being dropped from Ed Sheeran’s tour
(00:26:00) Push by Thomas Massie to impeach the illegal war in Iran
(00:31:45) Tate brothers' defense lawyers
(00:45:15) The role of Joseph D. McBride as a showman
(00:52:00) The gravity of the charges against the Tate brothers
(00:58:13) What happens next if the judicial review fails?
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