‘PROVEN It’s Mossad!’ Trump Says Release FULL Epstein Files

22:05So it's this muddy, weird, ugly event, even the real stuff with Epstein, the potential connections to intelligence or whatever. It's just so, I don't know, murky and obscure, I don't think there's a major political win. And now I think there pretty clearly is. Cenk? Yeah, no, this is way simpler. There's nothing murky about this at all. There's two factors here. One is Donald Trump's embarrassment, whether he did something criminal or not. And on that, let's stay there for a second. We're all ignoring the elephant in the room. there's an email that says that Donald Trump blew Bubba. Now, some people think Bubba's Bill Clinton.

22:42Some people think it's a whore. Some people think whatever. Now, I didn't write the email. And I, in fact, when I first saw it online, I didn't even believe it. Well, let me explain. Do you believe it now?

22:53Piers Morgan:Hang on, hang on. Just to explain to viewers, you might be at the moment shouting at their screen thinking, what? So this is a message reported, is originating from Mark Epstein, Jeffrey Epstein's brother. He is the one who sends this to Jeffrey Epstein. He has since publicly denied that it was referring to Bill Clinton, but has offered no clarification as to who it was referring to. Clinton, of course, had that nickname, amongst others. I mean, it could just be a joke between brothers. It could just be a slur. Or it could be something else, I guess. I just find it very, very hard. I have a question, Piers.

23:30Piers Morgan:What, sir? I have a question for Chank. Chank, do you really believe... Forget about Trump for a second. do you think that Trump is Bill Clinton's type everything we know a lot about Bill Clinton's sex life do you really think large blonde man that's Bubba's type I don't think so yeah so guys this is this is a classic distraction that's funny but I don't know if Bubba's Bill Clinton I don't care if it's Bill Clinton I'd be surprised if it was Bill Clinton but and I don't know that he actually blew a guy I don't know but Mark Epstein denied that it was Bill Clinton but didn't deny that Donald Trump actually gave a blowjob.

24:06So it's not me. And if you say, hey, look, it's Epstein's brother, I don't trust him. But hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me finish the thought. Hold on. No, no, no, no, no. And then Epstein, Jeffrey Epstein, says, well, the Russians would love to get their hands on that picture or something along those lines. So wait, is that a joke? That doesn't sound like a joke. So look, I'm not saying he definitely did it. But is it possible that Donald Trump was embarrassed that that would come out? Of course! Okay, but that's only half the equation and the less important half of the equation. The main reason why it never came out, both under Trump and under Democratic administrations, is because it obviously involves intelligence agencies.

24:48This is not complicated. And Officer Tatum says, oh, okay, it might be the CIA. I agree. Maybe it's the CIA and Mossad working together. But there's no question. You could look at the four-part series on DropSite News. The former prime minister of Israel's emails have been released, and Epstein and him constantly are coordinating about how to push America into a war. And they're talking about only the benefit of Israel. They never talk about the benefit of America. And Epstein is using almost all of his power to help Israel. That's now an established fact, and that's way more important than Bubba, right?

25:21And yet that's another giant elephant in the room, and mainstream media is like, oh, no, no, it involves Israel, so we can't talk about it. Well, that explains everything. That explains why both parties have been covering this up, because it involves potentially our government or or a beloved special allies government.

25:40Piers Morgan:Obviously Tatum, look, I don't know the answer to this. But I would say, having read a lot about Jeffrey Epstein now and the circles he mixed in, and the circles he brought to his home and to his island, when you put it all together, it is absolutely not beyond the realms of fantasy. In fact, I would say it heads more to a high likelihood that he was up to his neck in it with intelligence agencies of some kind, maybe myriad intelligence agencies. It would absolutely go with his persona and the type of people he was getting around his table on a sort of almost daily basis. So I certainly wouldn't want to bet the bank on him having no attachment to Mossad or CIA or anybody else.

26:24Yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't say that either. I have no idea what exactly is involved in this and nobody does. I mean, it's a very complicated situation. Nobody understands the totality of this, because he was arrested under Donald Trump's first term, if I'm not mistaken. They had the information there. We had the White House and everything. We could have divulged whatever needs to be divulged, and people are going to argue if they don't get the results they want that it was deleted. It was somehow some nefarious thing that went on. Then the Clintons, and then Joe Biden had it forever, and they did nothing.

26:55They didn't even mention anything in propriety, any impropriety about Donald Trump. You would think if Donald Trump had blown some guy and they had an email, they would at least leak that email. They wouldn't mention nothing else. They would leak an email about Donald Trump, at least before the election, to make him look bad so he'll never get into office. And they can continue to cover this up forever in perpetuity. You know why I think they didn't? Unless Israel ordered them not to. Well, well, I don't know. Hang on, hang on.

27:25Piers Morgan:It might be simpler than that. It might be simpler than that. My gut feeling... I mean, Biden listened to every single thing Israel said. Hang on, hang on. My gut feeling about this, Officer Tate, is that the reason, actually, in the end, neither side has felt compelled to release all these files is I suspect when we see them all, that both sides have a lot of blood on their hands. Not literally, but in terms of embarrassing revelation, perhaps evidence of alleged criminality and so on. I suspect you'll see this is a proper bipartisan scandal. I only base that on the type of guests that Epstein was having all the time.

28:06Piers Morgan:They were from every part of American high society, Democrat, Republican, you name it, they were trotting down there. So, you know, from what I'm gathering, from people who've seen these files, there's a lot of embarrassment to be had for both parties, which may explain why both parties have been reluctant to put it all out into the public domain. Yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you on that to a certain degree, because it does appear to be that way. You know, there's people that have mentioned, obviously, on television and the like, that there are people that may be implicated that probably did not commit a crime.

28:41They have just been accused of committing a crime from victims with no evidence. And so I think there's a risk in that, that they don't want to expose people that have not been able to go through justice. But I would argue, as crooked as the Democrats were, you would think that they would float and release things to make sure that Donald Trump would get in an office, and therefore they can have the White House again, and no one would ever know that he's a party in this situation. I do agree with that.

29:04Piers Morgan:I have to say, I do agree with that. Brian, just to bring you in here, I mean, you know, they tried to jail him for just about everything. People tried to kill Donald Trump several times in that campaign. The idea that the Democrats, with these files in their possession, would not have trawled them at some stage for stuff which could be damaging to Trump, if not disqualifying, I think is for the birds. They must have done. And if they didn't, they're even more useless and incompetent than the polls currently suggest. Well, first of all, let's not conflate they with the Democrats in terms of who tried to assassinate Donald Trump.

29:38I didn't say that. I was very careful.

29:40Piers Morgan:I was very careful. I said they tried to... I heard the hedging language, but I just wanted to state as well. I'll be crystal clear. They, i.e. the left, tried to jail him for absolutely everything. That's uncontestable. And I said, and there were attempts to take his life several times. And they justified the assassination. Right. I'm not pinning that on Democrats, but I'm saying that there was a lot going on in that year to stop Donald Trump becoming president again, either through imprisonment or through killing him. and the idea that no one on the left in possession of these files would not have trawled them for damaging information, I think is stretching credulity, isn't it?

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31:01Piers Morgan:And remember to tell them that I sent you. Cozy Earth, built for real life. Again, the files were in the possession of one person, just like they're in the possession of Pam Bonney right now, who will, of course, bend at the every whim of Donald Trump. They were in the possession of Merrick Garland. This is a guy who wouldn't even investigate Donald Trump for his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. This is somebody whose entire ethos, his entire raison d 'etre in government was just to prevent the optics of politicization. Am I surprised that Merrick Garland didn't leak any of this information in the files?

31:34Absolutely not. Again, this guy didn't do this. This guy's sole focus was to not do anything political or politicized. So if you're asking why this wasn't leaked, do I think it should have been leaked? Absolutely. Do I care whether anyone from Larry Summers or Bill Clinton all the way to Donald Trump is implicated in these files? Am I looking to protect any of these people? Absolutely not. I think all of this should have been released. And by the way, so did the people that staffed this very administration. Dan Bongino, Cash Patel, the fact that they now are so silent, the fact that they're perpetuating the same cover-up that they once condemned...

32:10I don't disagree. I don't disagree.

32:13Piers Morgan:I think you make a perfectly valid point about the hypocrisy on both sides. Michael, you want to respond to that? Yeah, hold on. Brian's whitewashing Garland a little bit too much here. He's complimenting him by pretending to insult him. So he's saying, well, you know, the real problem with Merrick Garland... Well, you are, because you're saying the real problem with Merrick Garland is he didn't want to get into the fray of politics. He was so clean. He wanted to remain so above it all. This is the guy who lied about the Biden DOJ spying on Catholic parishes, going in, you know, so much perfidy, so much deception.

32:49And I don't know, he was a complete political hack. And I think what's important to this conversation is I don't think it was Merrick Garland's pristine moral standards that prevented him from releasing this. I think that probably Piers is right. And one second, one second, Brian. I think Piers is probably right that if the Democrats don't want to release the files, it's because the files don't look good for them either. If you think Merrick Garland was a political hack, do you think Pam Bondi is a political hack, Michael? I think Pam Bondi is doing a very good job as attorney general. And I don't think she's a hack like Garland.

33:21This woman has engaged in every political prosecution. Donald Trump literally sends his little edicts out into the ether on Truth Social. He posted what was supposed to be a DM to Pam telling her what to do. And the second she read it, she snapped too. The notion that Pam Bondi is doing a very good job, but that Merrick Garland is a political hack. I wish Merrick Garland was more of a political hack. I'll explain to you the distinction. The impression that Pam Bondi is just some like figure, is some apolitical figure is a joke. No, here's the distinction. You're saying Pam Bondi has an allegiance to President Trump or she's a conservative or something.

34:00Yeah, obviously. Of course, she's the attorney general under a Republican administration. I guess the difference is I don't think Pam Bondi is lying about the FBI going in and spying on the political enemies of the party in power. Was Pam Bondi lying when she said the files were right on her desk and that they were going to be released? THE REPRESENTATIVE. WAS PAM BONDY LYING WHEN SHE SAID THE FIALS WERE GOING TO BE RELEASED ON HER DESK? I THINK SHE WAS.

34:21Piers Morgan:I'M AFRAID. LET ME JUMP IN THERE. YOU WISH SHE HADN'T SAID IT BECAUSE IT'S A LIGHT. WHAT SHE DID THAT DAY WAS LUDICRUS AND IS ACTUALLY ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THE WHOLE THING SPIRALLED OUT OF CONTROL. BECAUSE IF YOU TAKE A CAMEL TO THE EDGE OF AN OASIS AND DON'T ACTUALLY GIVE IT A DRINK, THEY GET ANGRY. A WHOLE FIRE PANEL. I'M GOING TO BRING IN ANTONY SCARAMUCCI, THE FORMER White House press secretary, host of The Rest is Politics US. Anthony, great to have you back on Uncensored. How are you? It's nice to be on. I see a lot of my friends there. Hello, Michael. It was a pretty partisan comment there, Michael.

34:55Hello, Brian. Thank you. Anthony. I mean, Michael, I love you. You think Pam Bondi is nonpartisan, but Merrick Garland was. I mean, come on, man. That is such a stretch, my brother. I said she's not a hack like Garland. Okay. All right. I'm just saying, you know, let's get the bubble back on the level, OK? Like when we're leveling the frame, the picture, we've got to have the bubble in the middle. No, she's a partisan and she's part of the good party. I agree. Pam Bondi is a Trump family law firm member that happens to also be the attorney general of the United States. So, I mean, you just got to be honest about it.

35:31But go ahead, Pierce. It's your show. It's great to be back on. It's great to, yeah.

35:34Piers Morgan:I don't want you suddenly commandeering my entire show here, Anthony. I apologize for that. I just had to call Michael out because I know Michael a long time. I know Michael's, you know, moves. I know Michael's moves. Well, let's get back to your moves. This whole Epstein scandal, it seems to me it's been an ongoing act of self-harm by the Trump administration to take all the media to a place where they were just expecting to be given all the files and be boasting about how transparent you're going to be, how you're going to finally get to the bottom of all this. and then just to put the drawbridge up and say, nope, it's all over, no files, no investigation, nothing.

36:15Piers Morgan:And now to be sort of bullied into going along with its release and so on. It's all been handled very badly. And what's been fascinating, I think, to watch from the outside is the way that a lot of the pressure on Trump has not just come from Democrats, but has actually come from within the MAGA base who were enraged about this and wanted these files released and have been completely incredulous as to why suddenly they won't be. Well, I mean, there's a lot there. I guess, you know, what I said last week in our podcast, his move is to say he wants full disclosure because that gives him coverage with his base.

36:54You know, his base believes in him no matter what, and no matter what comes out of the disclosed files, Trump will have a defence that his base would believe. And so I was very surprised that he went in the direction that you're describing. And, of course, on Sunday night, he went in the direction that I thought was the more accurate offensive direction for the president because that's really his only move. I mean, he would have been he would have lost and he would have showed a fissure in the MAGA base by that House vote going against him. So, you know, but I will say this and people could disagree with me on here that really like the president.

37:33He looks tired. He looks distracted. And he's obviously worried about something because you don't make the moves that he made, the ones that you're describing, if he's not worried about something. But he's going to get he's going to get forced into this now. And I believe that they'll they'll go back to Pam Bondi and say that there's an ongoing investigation, a result of which none of this stuff can be divulged at this moment. So I think that's the next move from him is, I want the vote, make it unanimous, but, oh, by the way, there's an envelope of your investigation, so you'll never see the light of day of the documents.

38:07Piers Morgan:But I don't think, Anthony, that's going to fly. I just do not think that will fly either outside of his party or within his party. You know, you're seeing a really fascinating schism erupting now in the conservative right in America. A lot of it goes back to Israel, but I also think the Epstein files have been a major part of this. You've just seen people signing up on either side of this, and I think that a lot of the MAGA base, the real diehard Trumpers, they want this stuff out there. Well, let me just push back for a second, Pierce. I know you have a lot of other people we need to talk to on the show, but I just want to say this because I know him very well.

38:47I think that's the move until he can come up with another distraction, perhaps killing more people off of the coast of Venezuela, invading Venezuela, something to do with Ukraine. He will find a distraction. Remember, Trump is always characterized by incrementalism. And so he's not worried about three months from now or two months from now. He's worried about next week. And so you would be right if he doesn't come up with more smoke screens. And I would just tell you that he has a Ph.D. in smoke screening. So I predict he'll find something to distract people from this over the ensuing months.

39:26Piers Morgan:All right, Michael, just bringing you back on that point, that could well be the case. But I really do think if all they do is kick this can down the road, it's going to get a bigger problem for the Trump administration. I totally agree. And I almost agree with my friend Mr. Scaramucci over there. I think he's just getting it backwards. I think that the entire calculation here was that the Epstein files are a major distraction. And so what has come to be the case, I think indisputably, is that not releasing the files was a distraction. There are going to be files, however, that will not come out.

40:06And even if they did release all the files, there will always be people saying, well, there were more emails. There were files that were destroyed. Of course that's the case. The Epstein scandal is really, really bizarre. And so I kind of think of it like the JFK files. You know, 1992, we were supposed to get those JFK files and the government just like doesn't release them all. So either Epstein is who the elites say that he is, which is a weird, rich sex freak, but no connections to any political questions. Or he was the super duper triple spy for every government agency in the world. He's James Bond and Jason Bourne.

40:36In which case, we're never going to find out the full story. Either we know what we know, you know, we know everything, or we're never going to get the whole story. And so it will serve as a distraction. There's no question about it. The only question is, how do you minimize that distraction? And I agree. You know, listen, I hate to say it, but I think I agree with everyone here that Trump has to release the files. It helps to reunify the party a little bit. And by the way, if the Democrats win the midterms, which those elections two weeks ago seemed to suggest, they're going to subpoena, they're going to have investigations ad nauseum.

41:08SO BETTER TO GET AHEAD OF IT AND NOT LET THEM PUT THEIR SPIN ON IT.

41:10Piers Morgan:YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I THINK. CHENK, I WANT TO BRING IN THE OTHER EXTRAORDINARY PART OF THE LAST FEW WEEKS, THE REMARKABLE TRANSFORMATION OF MARJORIE TAYLOR GREEN FROM MAGA CHEERLEADER AND CLOSE FRIEND OF THE PRESIDENT TO THE WOMAN WHO'S NOW THE SWORN ENEMY OF THE PRESIDENT. HE CALLS HER A TRAITOR. AND IS NOW, AND REALLY UNDERPINNING THIS IS HER CONVICTION THAT THE EPSTEIN FILE have to be released and that the Trump administration has been blocking it. What do you make of this? Fox News is now streaming live on Fox One. When news breaks, we don't just report it. We go beyond the headlines to get the full story.

41:52Get live coverage, in-depth analysis and perspectives from the voices you trust, all in one place. Whether you're at home or on the go, stay connected to the stories shaping our world. Stream Fox News on Fox One. Download today.

42:34emails and drop site news shows that Epstein was doing everything he could to help Israel. So, and why, oh, Trump's uncomfortable, the Democrats are uncomfortable, but yet somehow they don't release it. Why not? Because the one thing that both parties serve is Israel. Who has enough power to kill someone inside an American prison and have the videotape not work and the guards be off? Intelligence agencies. Obviously, this is already solved. So now the connective tissue. So the reason why Trump's base is upset is because the core of the promise was America first. And now they have Trump get into office.

43:11First, he says, no, I'm not serving you guys. I'm not releasing the Epstein files. Then he says, OK, nope, I'm going to bomb Iran and I'm going to do whatever Israel wants. Israel is first. Then it goes way beyond that. Then it goes, OK, hey, I don't care about affordability anymore. Hey, tax cuts for the rich, subsidies for oil companies, and all the things that never put Americans first, the donors first, whether they're oil companies, pharmaceutical companies, or the Israeli lobby. So Marjorie Taylor Greene comes along, and she says what MAGA's been saying all along. So now what you guys have to understand is that Trump's voters, in my opinion, and I'm curious what you all think, are in three buckets, right?

43:52One is independents who listen to Rogan, Young Turks, Theo Vaughn, Tim Dillon. Those guys just hate the establishment. And they'll vote for anyone who's an actual enemy of the establishment and a populace for the American people. So those guys are already gone. I mean, you see it in the younger voters. Trump used to have an eight-point lead. Now he has a 55-point deficit. So an independence and the younger are gone. Then there's a bucket in the middle, which is true MAGA, the original MAGA, America first. and I disagree with their social issues, et cetera. But that's Marjorie Taylor Greene, Tucker Carlson, Tom Massey, et cetera.

44:25And then the third bucket is Trump loyalists. The ones who say, oh, yeah, of course, everybody's eating cats and dogs and Trump couldn't wait to release the Epstein files and this was all a trick and a chess game and all that. Those guys are hopeless. Trump could say anything and they'll believe it. And in fact, the rest of the Trump voters are now looking at them like, are you guys nuts? Like, wake up to what's going on here. The establishment is screwing us, and it turns out that Trump is part of the establishment. I don't think anyone can argue that Trump has more original pro-MAGA positions than Marjorie Taylor Greene.

44:59In fact, Pierce, I did a poll on X about this. Marjorie took an 82 to 18 lead against Trump as the true original MAGA. And then Kat Turd and others, the Trump loyalist, comes in. They have tons of votes going for Trump. And then it went back and forth, back and forth all day, 66 ,000 votes. And at the end, Marjorie Taylor Greene wins. Why? Because most of the people that watch online media now realize Trump is just another guy in the establishment, another elite. And he's doing the same exact thing as all the other corporate Democrats and Republicans.

45:31Piers Morgan:OK, Brandon, what do you think of that? Because I do think there's some merit to this. I mean, Marjorie Taylor Greene has been going out there and talking in a way I've never heard her talk before. And it's definitely resonating with people. I see a lot of people in the MAGA movement who actually agree with her. A lot of people don't. But I don't think Trump calling her a traitor is necessarily going to work in the way he hopes. Well, I disagree on that. If you look at Marjorie Taylor Greene, she switched. It's not that she continued in the MAGA way. She continued with America First conservatism.

46:04She's completely switched. She was just on television saying that Donald Trump shouldn't deport all these people at one time because it hurt the people who are working at her company. You know, Marjorie Taylor Greene has changed her position on so many different things. She just apologized on CNN and said she's sorry for contributing to the rhetoric. Marjorie Taylor Greene, her whole pop—the reason she's popular is because she went against the grain. It's because she challenged people on a day-to-day basis. And now she's apologizing to CNN for it. She says Trump has accomplished nothing since he's been in office.

46:32He's completely turned on America. That is insane to me. You're talking about the border crisis that we experienced that have been matriculated throughout our society in so many negative ways. Donald Trump has brought an end to that. Ask the people who live on the border. Ask the people who patrol on the border. And then you go off into other aspects. I think he's trying to do his best when it comes to tariffs to bring revenue back into the American economy. And it's not that easy. Nobody is willing to do it. So Donald Trump is willing to do the hard thing now so we can benefit later. But for Marjorie Taylor Greene to go off the reservation to say all of these different things, this is why he called her a traitor.

47:05This is why people think that she's changed. And I would add to this, and Shane, he laments to this all the time. This has come down to Israel. It's the fact that Marjorie Taylor Greene has taken a position on Israel and everybody that loves to hate on Israel will take her side. And Donald Trump says he's been supportive of Netanyahu. He's been supportive of things in Israel. People begin to turn on him because of that. And so it's a twofold thing. She's turned, all her values have completely changed, which is why Trump thinks she's a traitor. And the people who hate Israel, it's gonna follow her.

47:37and the people who love Israel is going to follow a majority of what Donald Trump says.

47:41Piers Morgan:Brian, let me just play you the apologies she made. Yeah, it's MAGA versus MAGA. It's America first versus Israel first. Hang on, Cenk. I want to play the clip. And it's about do we control our own government? Cenk, I want to... Hang on, guys. No one cares. Hang on. I want to just play... I don't know what you're thinking. Hang on, guys. Please. I want to play the clip that you referenced, Brendan. I want to play the apology that Marjorie Taylor Greene made. Let's take a look at this. I would like to say humbly, I'm sorry for taking part in the toxic politics. It's very bad for our country. And it's been something I've thought about a lot, especially since Charlie Kirk was assassinated, is that I'm only responsible for myself and my own words and actions.

48:29and I am going, I am committed and I've been working on this a lot lately to put down the knives in politics.

48:38Piers Morgan:Now, Brian, are you buying this? I mean, it's been a remarkable kind of Damascene conversion. You know, Marjorie Tilley-Green, you could argue, and I'm going to interview her after I speak to you guys, has been one of the most toxic people in the political discourse space in America in the last few years, saying some deeply inflammatory, violence-inducing comments on occasion. Are you buying this dramatic U-turn? Do I think it's coming from a place of true honesty? Probably not. I think that she sees that it's politically advantageous for her to be able to say this. I think she feels burned because clearly she wanted to run for U.S.

49:17Senate in Georgia, and instead one of the good old boys, Buddy Carter, was anointed by Donald Trump, So I think she's she's on a bit of a rampage here. But on the other point, I mean, look, the fact that she's resonating so much is a testament to the fact that there is a recognition in Trump space or on the right more broadly that, you know, all of the things that Trump promised are not coming to fruition. This guy ran for office as some populist champion. He promised lower rent, lower housing, lower groceries, lower eggs. He promised free IVF, ending the Ukraine-Russia war on day one. He promised lower costs.

49:53Look what he's done since he's actually been in office. Costs on everything have surged because of this misguided trade war that everybody said was going to raise the cost of everything. He has not done anything for IVF, not done anything for the Russia-Ukraine war. And what where is his focus? It's on building himself a 350 million dollar ballroom. It's on encrusting the Oval Office in gold It's on retrofitting Qatari jets at the tune of a billion dollars It's on buying Kristi Noem a couple of Gulfstream jets that cost 170 million dollars as on hosting great Gatsby parties It's so obvious where this guy's priorities are again He ran by by dangling these carrots in front of poor people in America and once he actually gets power the optics, the gold, the opulence that he surrounds himself in puts on full display that this guy does not give a flying fuck about the people that he pandered to on the campaign trail and his priority is solely himself.

50:47And so clearly there's going to be anger in the MAGA base. Clearly there's going to be anger among Republicans more broadly because it could not be more obvious that this guy doesn't give a shit about that.

50:57Piers Morgan:Okay, Anthony, what do you make of the Marjorie Taylor Greene split here with Trump? Because it's getting a lot of attention. it kind of reflects a lot of the splits going on on the conservative right in America and on the Trump support in particular, Epstein and Israel being two of the leading components to this. What do you make of it? You know, it's what Harry Truman said. If you want a friend in Washington, buy a dog. Her interests have now diverged from Donald Trump's, and so she's speaking out against him, you know. And so I hear what Brian's saying. I don't necessarily say it's disingenuous or ingenuous.

51:33It's just the nature of politics in the United States. And so he's a lame duck, whether people like it or not, Steve Bannon, et cetera. He's going to be going into those midterm elections weakened. There's a political mortality about Donald Trump that's embedded in the Constitution. So Rand Paul, Massey, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Boebert, you're going to see more people breaking from Donald Trump as they each try to find their footing in whatever they think the philosophical tenets of the Republican movement or the MAGA movement should be after Trump. And so I think that's the move, and it's really that calculated.

52:13It's not necessarily based on principle or anything like that, but it's more pragmatism. And frankly, Piers, you and I have been around a long time. This has happened to every other lame duck president as people set themselves up for the next presidential term come 2028.

52:30Piers Morgan:If you were a betting man now, Anthony, because the Democrats are hardly in great shape themselves, polling at record lows, no apparent leader coming through yet, the most charismatic member of the party actually being a self-declared socialist, many declare him to be a communist, Mamdani in New York. He can't run, obviously, but his ideology is something certainly shared by the likes of AOC and others. So you could argue that the most famous and dynamic members of the Democratic Party are AOC, Mamdani, Bernie Sanders. It's all the far left, right? I don't think that can win a general election.

53:10Piers Morgan:So how is the Democrat set-up actually going... or Democratic Party set-up going to stop MAGA continuing just by default if they get pulled too far to the left. You know, listen, I'm going to cite the president, if you don't mind, because whatever you think of him, and obviously I'm on the other side of him at this point in my life, he's got great political instincts. When Mondani won in New York, Trump is like, OK, that's the signal from the Democratic Party. They're going to go hard left. The country's not ready for that, OK? And even if there's hard left people on this call, I'm just letting you know the country is not ready for that, does not want that.

53:48And if the Democrats don't build a coalition around somebody that will tack to the center, and by the way, you mentioned his electoral success, but you had Mickey in New Jersey, you had Spanberger in Virginia. You did have moderate Democrats that won as well. And if they go in a moderate direction, they could probably beat the Republicans. But if they don't go in a moderate direction, Pierce, I think they end up losing handily, and they'll be sitting around shaking their heads. but they go after each other in that party in a way that the Republicans don't. You know, whatever happens on the side of the Republicans, they line up together and they keep their mouths shut and they support one person.

54:27The Democrats don't like doing that.

54:29Piers Morgan:Well, they did the Republicans, but you've got to say, looking at Marjorie Taylor Greene's spat with Trump, that may be beginning to fragment, although I agree with you about the Democrat issue. Until there's a primary winner. Until there's a primary winner, again, the... No, no, I agree with you. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, Cenk, I just wanted to mention something before we finish. This is this issue of the kid you tried to assassinate Trump. And these are revelations that Tucker Carlson has mainly brought into the public domain, in which it appears that far from the FBI narrative that was being given to us, that there was no online path for this kid and no real explanation for why he'd done it.

55:14Piers Morgan:Turns out there was an awful lot of online stuff that they've now unearthed, but it's been bullied out there by Tucker and his investigation. 17 different accounts, many of it very incendiary, very threatening, very dangerous, actually, if you read it. What's going on here? Again, there was a promise of transparency. There was repeated leaks that there was nothing on this guy online, which in itself sounded so weird for a kid that young. And yet now it turns out the complete opposite is true. Yeah, again, there's a connective tissue here, which is, I think we're misunderstanding the whole paradigm here.

55:57We're still talking as if it's Democrats versus Republicans and that there are so-called moderates, et cetera. So Marjorie Taylor Greene's positions, I totally disagree with Tatum. They almost haven't changed at all. Donald Trump's positions have changed wildly. He said he was anti-war, and now he's going to invade Venezuela? That's mental, and that isn't America first. That isn't anti-war, et cetera. So what's the connective tissue? Whoever is the most populist is the one that the people support the most. Whoever is the most anti-establishment is the candidate that's going to win. So when you talk about, oh, like the far left, like Momdani, AOC, et cetera, no, no, no, no.

56:39I don't care where you are on the political spectrum. I care where you are in the spectrum between establishment and populist. So the reason Mamdani won, and originally the reason AOC won, is because they were anti-status quo, anti-establishment. They were for change, right? So at this point, though, I guarantee you both the Republican and I hope the Democrat, the Republican for sure, And my God, I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that the Democratic primary as well is won by a person who is deeply, deeply anti-establishment. So right now, the people in power are screwing the average person.

57:15And it's super obvious. So Marjorie Taylor Greene is saying it on the right. Tucker Carlson is saying it on the right. And the government is covering up a thousand things. So why did they cover up the shooter's real history? That's a super fair question. You know, look, before, Pierce, I believed the things the government said. Now I look back at it and I think, come on, man. So you found two passports in the burning rubble of 9-11 that conveniently proved your case? They were steel melted, but the paper passports didn't melt? And now why did you hide the, you know, the identity of the Trump shooter?

57:53And everything that happened about the Charlie Kirk shooting is deeply, deeply suspicious. Uh-oh, here we go. And so, no, I don't trust the government. No, no, no. If you say you trust the government, both the American government and the Israeli government, they would never do anything wrong. And you and you love the donors and you want to kiss their ass. Please do that, because it'll be so easy to defeat you. And it doesn't matter whether you're on the right.

58:15Piers Morgan:Let me bring in. Let me bring in, Michael. We're running out of time. But I do think it stinks, this whole thing with Thomas Crooks. You know, this is the attempted assassin at the rally in Butler, Pennsylvania. When you actually get into the weeds of this, this was a guy who was in clear public visibility, you know, making his thoughts extremely dangerous, extreme thoughts, extremist ideology, admiration for mass violence, spoke openly of political assassination, posted under his real name, was flagged by others who mentioned law enforcement and their replies. But despite that, his account remained active for five years and was only removed the day after the shooting.

58:56Piers Morgan:Why the briefings that there was no online tracking for this guy when it turned out there was nothing but? I thought Tucker's report on this was terrific. I think it's a disgrace that a guy sitting up in Maine has to release what information we have now gotten rather than the authorities or the establishment media. So I totally agree with that. The whole thing stinks to high heaven. To Cenk's broader kind of point, though, he's arguing that whoever is the most populous wins. This would seem to be undercut by the fact that Joe Biden won in 2020. He's the most establishment candidate ever. And or maybe you're saying Joe Biden didn't really win, which I'm here to listen to.

59:37You know, Brian makes this point that the whole right is fraying because the right has realized that tariffs are inflationary. The San Francisco Fed just shot that down this morning and said they're deflationary, actually. said that people just realized that Trump likes gold. I think people knew that actually for many years before that. So I think really what we're talking all about is, yes, there's massive, massive government corruption. And that's very longstanding. And it's existed under both parties. And both, at least people within both parties, really want to uncover that. And there are forces that are stopping it.

1:00:07Totally agree. That is separate from Cenk's broader point, which is that the MAGA coalition is beginning to fray. That's right. But the reason for that is simple. And actually, Mr. Mooch got to it, which is sorry on the screen. It's over there. Mr. Mooch got to it, which is that President Trump is coming to the end of his second term. And this is not a fight even primarily over ideas. Part of the reason Marjorie Taylor Greene is using Democrat rhetoric on CNN is because Trump hit her and said that she's basically out of the tent. What this is about is 2028. And it's going to be a fight for the control of the right that we haven't now had to see in about a decade.

1:00:42And that's going to bring in questions of conspiracy. It's going to bring in questions of economy, foreign policy, all the rest. To try to overcomplicate it, I think, is simple. The race for 2028 is on, and every split within the right-wing coalition comes down to that.

1:00:56Piers Morgan:Yeah, I've got to leave it there. All I would say is it may seem like the Trump second term is coming to an end, Michael. In fact, he has over three years left. It just feels like it's already been three years, which is the other part of Trump being president is that every day seems to go on for about a week. But, guys, thank you all very much indeed. A really excellent panel, and I appreciate all your time. Thank you. Piers Morgan on Sensor is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

1:01:35Piers Morgan:And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate, and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.

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