“Torture Does NOT Work!” Explosive Report On Brutality Against Palestinians In Israel-Hamas War

23:38Piers Morgan:He's full of shit. That's it. I mean, guys can lie. Just because they have awards given to them by other guys who write bullshit doesn't mean they were there. Do you know why I like having you on? The reason I like having you on Uncensored is because you are the epitome of uncensored, Rob O 'Neill. You always say exactly what you're thinking, and I appreciate the camera. Yeah, I mean that. I try to tell the truth as I know it. That's all I'm trying to do. Seriously, and if I'm wrong, I'll admit it. I just think that's the truth. You're making a valid point based on your own personal experience.

24:08Piers Morgan:So I completely understand the passion that you're making it. And I actually meant what I just said as a compliment. Oh, no, I know. I'm good. Let me bring in Doran Kemple, former Special Forces Commander in the IDF. Doran, what is your view of this? I mean, look, my view of the IDF generally since October 7th is they've obviously been waging an incredibly difficult war against Hamas. They've obviously had a lot of losses on their side. They've inflicted a lot of losses on the other side, including many civilians. That's been very contentious. It's led to all sorts of global debate about whether the proportionality of Israel's response has been correct or not.

24:48Piers Morgan:We've debated that on this show many, many, many times. But there have been a few things that have popped up which have, to my mind, questioned the constant refrain that the IDF is the most moral army in the world. One very recently of the IDF soldier desecrating a statue of Jesus Christ, for example. That's not the actions of the most moral army in the world. Now, I accept there are rogue elements of any army, okay, so I'm not pretending for a moment they're not, but I think when you make a claim like that, it can sometimes be used by people as an all-encompassing kind of protective shield to any legitimate criticism.

25:23Piers Morgan:You know, similarly, when I see members of the Israeli government, like Ben Gavir, being given by his wife on his 50th birthday last week a cake with a noose on it, that makes me think, wow, maybe you're just as psychopathic as the people you're going after. So there's a lot of stuff here which I am uncomfortable with, whilst at the same time, as I did many, many times from the start of the war in Gaza, for example, I've always accepted Israel had a right to defend itself. So I'm not one of those people who says everything Israel does is wrong. I have nothing against the country or the people.

25:53Piers Morgan:I have a problem with elements of this government and with the actions that have been going on, particularly in the last year or so. So in the context of my positioning of that, What is your view here of this series of revelations from Nick Kristof? Do you think, as some people do, that none of it can be true? It's all fantasy. He's made it all up. Or do you think there's a more nuanced way to respond to this? Thank you for having me, Pierce. Let's start with what I think we all agree about, which is that any type of rape, doesn't matter if it's women or men, any type of torture or abuse is bad.

26:27We agree on that. Let me add one more thing that I'm sure, Pierce, you agree with, and also brother Robert from the SEALs. There is no excellence in an organization without having moral excellence at the core. The SEALs, and I'm sure that your program, Pierce, starts with the fact that there's moral clarity. And from that, let me get to the most important point. The survival of Israel should not be taken for granted, not in the past 50 years and not in the next 50 years. And if Israel wants to survive, it needs to maintain that type of excellence that starts with morality, through intellectual integrity, and then operational excellence, which includes courage.

27:09And I'm sure that the Israeli pilots over Iran that are sacrificing their life have this type of courage and has that morality across these three layers. And for that reason, and of course, I don't know what has happened in those prisons. I have no idea. But Israel should investigate this professionally and fairly. And to the extent that anybody is to blame, they should suffer the full extent of the law or there's going to be no Israel in 50 years. I think those are the core points that I wanted to communicate. I can double click on any of them, Pierce.

27:42Piers Morgan:Yeah, you know, it's interesting because one of my big problems, for example, with the war on Gaza, One of my big critiques of the Israel position on it and the way it was conducted was, to this day, the Netanyahu government bans international media from going into Gaza, even though there has supposedly been a ceasefire for many months. None of that makes sense to me. If you have nothing to hide, if you genuinely have waged this war in the most moral way imaginable, as they keep claiming, then let the international journalists in to do their job, unfettered, you know, untied to government walking around with them, and allow the top journalists in the world to go in and investigate whether those claims are true.

28:20Piers Morgan:And the other part of the Gaza story was that there were repeated allegations of outrages, the killing of innocent journalists. Not all of them, I'm sure, were innocent. Some probably were attached to Hamas. I don't know, because I only know the claims come from IDF and where there appears to have been some atrocity or some wrongdoing, they immediately announce an investigation and then some people have gone back and gone, well, what happened to all those investigations? Most of them, we never get any conclusion. You know, and we're seeing a similar pattern, for example, in Iran, with the killing of the school, with the 200 schoolgirls or however many it was who were killed.

28:58Piers Morgan:We still don't know, apparently, who fired that missile. And yet every part of my journalistic gut tells me, of course they know who fired that missile. So why aren't we being told? Similarly, with all the investigations the IDF have done into all the alleged wrongdoing as it was happening in real time. Well, where's the results? Where are the published statements about all these things? A lot of them just disappear from public view and public purview. And I have a problem with that. I have a problem with the lack of transparency and the apparent lack of accountability. What would you say to that?

29:33Well, a lot of very important points. I think that all of this should be investigated and published. And again, I believe that no organization or society can survive without a kernel of morality, legality, integrity, etc. And for that reason, all of that should be investigated. And whoever has done something wrong should be suffering the full extent of the law. Having said that, you also said something about a line of journalists everywhere. That's not really possible in the time of war because war includes a lot of elements that are undercover. There's a ceasefire. Yes, but you know that the Mossad and the CIA are not on vacation right now in Iran.

30:15Piers Morgan:No, no, but where there is a ceasefire, historically, in modern times, where there's a ceasefire, journalists are allowed to do their job. And I cannot get a straight answer out of why the Israeli government continues to ban international journalists from doing their job. It makes no sense. It's an infringement of their freedom of speech and expression to do it. It's a failure of accountability, a failure of transparency. And, you know, my message to Prime Minister Netanyahu, if you have nothing to hide, then let the journalists in. Let them report. You know, and that's, you know, it's not connected directly to the New York Times reporting.

30:51Piers Morgan:In general, I agree with that. But if you don't have reporting like Nick Christos, I'm not sure where it comes from. In general, I agree with that. It's part of democracy. The only point that I was making is that if Robert's SEAL team had a journalist with them on their way to bin Laden, it wouldn't have worked in the same way. So there should be some areas that are concealed. But when there is a ceasefire, you should allow... But hang on, but Doran, on that point, but journalists did go to the compound afterwards. They were allowed to go and investigate what had happened after it was all over.

31:25Piers Morgan:So that's the analogy I would use. Of course you don't want to have journalists on the actual missions or during combat operations. I get that. But once it's over, once there's a ceasefire, even if there are, you know, breakouts from that ceasefire, the journalists should... In the end, it's down to the journalists... I agree. ..down to the journalists and their bosses to determine the risk assessment. It shouldn't be down to a government to say none of you are coming in. I mean, Emily, let me ask you that question, because, you know, you're a US-Israeli journalist and commentator. As a journalist, do you feel comfortable that journalists are not allowed into Gaza?

32:04Piers Morgan:unless they're taken by the IDF and are perceived to be friendly? Yeah, I mean, I think we're on the same page. We have been for some time. Even while there was no ceasefire, I argued that international media should be allowed in at their own risk. And I say that with the caveat that I know why the army doesn't want, and it's not because of hiding something or not hiding something. The equation here is that they consider the risk to be too high, too much operational activity occurring within a very small area. It's not unheard of for certain zones to be off limits for journalists. We see it in Ukraine with zones that journalists can't enter.

32:40That being said, I agree with you. I think that should be up to the journalists to assume that risk. And that's who should be making the ultimate decision. I just want to add one more comment about what you mentioned with the accountability. I think that's the case in many countries, especially when it comes to war, that we don't really hear about the follow up. This is a problem. But I do want to say, at least in some of the more recent examples, including one that you brought up, that disgusting behaviour from one of the soldiers in Lebanon mocking the statue of Jesus that was in one of the villages there, there was a response to this.

33:14He was removed from operational duty and those who stood by doing nothing were also suspended. In addition to that, we also had condemnation from right to left, from the very top of the government with the president and the prime minister himself, all the way to community leaders.

33:27Piers Morgan:OK, but, Emily, my response to that would be, yes, you're right, because there was widespread condemnation all around the world and because I think the Israeli government panicked and realised how bad it looked, particularly with Christians in America, who are their biggest pain masters and supporters. But then it begs the question, if they can respond that quickly and with such clarity and authority and decisiveness and take disciplinary action, why couldn't they do the same when you had people being killed wrongly in Gaza, as happened multiple times, including, in my estimation, a number of journalists who were just doing their job.

34:06Piers Morgan:Over 200 journalists were killed in that war. And, you know, I'm afraid... Well, obviously, you know I'm going to dispute you on that figure, but... Well, no, it's not disputed. The only dispute is whether any of them... Because many of these journalists were not journalists, Fierce. It's not disputed. You're not a journalist. You are not a journalist, OK? You, born and raised in L.A. I hear a lot of background noise. Now you're acting as if you're a journalist. You're a propagandist for a genocidal regime in the Middle East. That's what you are. You're a propagandist for a genocidal regime in the Middle East.

34:39Talking about minimizing the slaughter. No, we're focusing on the topic of the debate. Can we get back to the topic of this debate? You are justifying the slaughter of actual journalists while pretending to be a journalist on the show. I'm making the book.

34:54Piers Morgan:Hang on, hang on. He has a propagandist for Israel. That's what you are. You're a propagandist. Anna, you can respond in a moment, but I'm making the point, which I think is a valid one, which is why is it... Why is it the IDF and the Israeli government could respond so quickly to the desecration of a statue of Jesus but cannot respond with anything like the same speed to the killing of journalists, many of whom were genuine journalists doing their job? Probably Rob and Doron can answer this even better than me, but I think the most distinct and obvious difference is that one occurs in the fog of war and it takes time to be able to determine who was where, when, what footage is there, what information is there available versus a photo where you can clearly see who it was and what happened and they evaluated that fairly quickly.

35:41Now that said, I agree with you. I think there needs to be more transparency and there also needs to be more speedy answers to a lot of these things. We're on the same page on this. I'm not disputing you at all on that front.

35:50Piers Morgan:And on the question of the 9 ,000 or so Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails, why is it that so many have not had a free and fair trial yet? Good question. Under administrative detention, Israel does reserve the right in order to preemptively arrest people up to six months with court permission. And that is what's happened. All of those 9 ,000 are not under administrative detention. But we know that after October 7th, there were thousands of arrests in order to determine who was a part of what happened. In fact, I would go even further than that and point out that a lot of the Palestinians who were arrested, we didn't know because we didn't know on October 7th who had entered Israel.

36:32There were people they found many months later that were involved in the October 7th massacres who had been hiding inside of Israel. So there is an over-response to what happened in order to get control of the situation. That's not really unique to Israel. That's something we see a lot of times in war.

36:46Piers Morgan:They'll be bringing Rob O 'Neill back on that one because, of course, anyone who's watched Zero Dark Thirty about your incredible raid, which is a brilliant movie, but, of course, it shows... Great movie. Yeah, and it shows a lot of the detention scenes are pretty harrowing, and you see people being held at Guantanamo Bay and being, you know, effectively tortured for information, and the thread in the movie shows that ultimately a piece of information was elicited that way leads to identification of a compound and so on. So you can see a thread through that movie and that narrative that in a way means justifying the ends.

37:25Piers Morgan:But, of course, the argument against it is, particularly when Barack Obama himself being a lawyer, is that if you're fighting to defend democracy, including the rule of law, then is it right that you should hold people in detention? For sometimes in Quintana Bay's case, there were people there for 12 years or more without ever being brought to trial. I had a real problem with that. It's like if we're fighting for freedom and democracy, we should be fighting for the rule of law, and it should be the rule of law. It shouldn't just be, well, we're going to ride roughshod over that when it suits us.

38:01Piers Morgan:What do you think? Yeah, I mean, it's... I'm going to start this off by saying I'm not a journalist either. I'm fortunate, though, over 400 combat missions, I was what we call the battlefield interrogator until we've softened it to tactical questioner, which means after we take down a house, after we killed people and there's people still alive, I'm the one that gets to interrogate them. So I get to talk to them face to face. And I'm going to tell you from the time I had, from the first time I did that in Iraq to the last time I did it, probably in Afghanistan or Pakistan, I learned along the way torture does not work at all.

38:30You will get to a point where you hurt someone so bad, they're going to tell you what you want to hear. So what works is just catching them in lies. And the easiest way to catch them in a lie is ask them a question that you know the truth to whose house is this? Who are the men of the house? What of their names. If there's five guys, you ask that three guys have the same answer. Guess what? They're not the bad guys. And I mean, look, I've been in places before after a gunfight questioning someone and I had to smack this taste out of their mouth. That's fine. But the torture stuff, I was never into that.

38:54I never saw it. None of my guys wanted to do that. I like to say we're the good guys. But again, unfortunately for me, no one on the battlefield thinks they're the bad guy. I'm just telling you right now, if you can catch them in lies, that's good. You're going to get a lot further with rapport than torture. Anyone that tortures is wrong. And it's not up to me to judge whether or not you cut down a picture of Jesus. Someone else will do that eventually. So I'm just saying what's right or wrong there. It is bad on the battlefield, but it's also really bad on what gets reported because not everything is the truth.

39:19What I found, it's a hard truth. And anyone who's listening who's never been to combat, I'm going to tell you, everyone in a war zone, about 99 % are not combatants. Not everyone's fighting the ones who are bad. You try to get the truth. You try to get the targets however you can. But I'm going to say, if anyone's a young soldier right now, I'll save you about 17 years of experience. Torture doesn't work, try another way.

39:37Piers Morgan:See, that's a really fascinating and honest answer. And on the particular point that I made, which triggered that amazing response, by the way, holding people in detention, whether it's in Guantanamo Bay, whether it's in Israeli jails, for years at a time, without giving them a trial, it just, it seems to me the antithesis, really, of what a free democracy should be doing. It should be setting the moral and legal code for, especially if you're going to take a morally superior view of the way you run your country. We hear all the time, Israel says, we're the only democracy in the region. Okay, well then behave like one.

40:15Piers Morgan:Having all these people in prison without ever giving them a trial seems to me, that's not democracy. But what do you think? Well, no, I mean, you're going to be, if you keep someone, especially if it's unlawful, If you just thought there's something, you can lock them up. You're going to make a bad guy. And again, both sides of it. I thought one thing. Now I think another because they've locked me up for a decade. I don't like them. I again, I wish I had all the answers because this would be a much shorter show. I don't. I'm still I just turned 50. Thank God I can learn for hopefully another 50.

40:45But it's like I mean, and people throw democracy around like it's anything else.

40:49Piers Morgan:Like if you say, hey, I don't want my borders open, let 20 million people in. Well, if I don't do that, I'm not I'm against the Constitution. It's like we're losing a lot of definitions because we're bringing too many lawyers and politicians into it. I mean, a lot of stuff in life, I think, is simpler. We love to make it complicated. I mean, I'm just, again, I'm going to refer back to the beginning of the segment. I'm glad this entire panel is in agreement that rape is bad. Yeah. I think we really need to look at the comparison of what we're talking about here. On the one hand, people who commit crimes in Israeli jails, it's fog of war.

41:18We can't arrest. There's no way of knowing. And then in Gaza, you have this massive net where you arrest every single man you see. lock them up, torture them, possibly kill them, and then see what happens later. All of a sudden, the fog of war doesn't matter. You have the widest net possible. And when it's Israelis committing these crimes, no one gets arrested. No one gets investigated. It's fog of war. What can you do? But with Gaza, you can bring everyone in. It just shows you that Jews are not held accountable in Israel, and Palestinians are held accountable, whether they committed crimes or not.

41:47Every Palestinian is seen as...

41:49Piers Morgan:Well, also, on that point... And that's why all these journalists are being killed, too. And, Anna, I will come to you in one moment. But on that point, Emily, for example, the thing that precipitated Ben Gavir getting this cake from his wife with the noose on it was the scene from the Knesset of him celebrating wildly with champagne after winning a new policy going through in the Knesset to have a two-tier system of death penalty policy now, where if you're a Palestinian, that the Israelis deemed to be a terrorist, then you can be executed. But the same law doesn't apply to Israelis who may commit an act of terrorism.

42:29Piers Morgan:And, you know, this is a country where you've had prime ministers killed by right-wing Israeli terrorists. OK, so it's not like it doesn't happen. So what do you say to that? Are you comfortable with a two-tier legal system about things like the death penalty? I am not a supporter of this law. In principle, I don't have a problem with the death penalty being applied. However, I do want to clarify just for the viewers that the law that was passed, the one that we saw Ben Gavir celebrating, is less about being two-tier. What it states isn't that anyone who's a terrorist can qualify for the death penalty.

43:05It's that anyone who is convicted of murdering people, so it has to be a capital offense, and it also has to be of a nationalistic nature. That's what it's classified as. Now, how that affects Palestinians differently is because Palestinians are prosecuted in military courts. So it operates through a different system because they are an active combatant. They're considered an active enemy entity to the state of Israel. I do have a problem with the application of it. But all of that being said, it's not going to stand. It's going to get struck down or at least modified by the courts. And frankly, it should.

43:38I think we need to be very smart about how we deal with such situations. We don't want to see people like Yachis Sinwar spending time in Israeli prison, being treated by Israeli doctors for brain cancer and then being released and planning things like October 7th. We need to be intelligent about how we're dealing with murderers with blood on their hands. And I don't believe that this law was the best way to do it. But I do think that we do need to revise how we review some of these cases.

44:03Piers Morgan:All right, Anna, your response. I mean, obviously, it is a two-tier justice system when one group of people, and I want to note, Emily Schrader didn't say Hamas. She said Palestinians are seen as enemy combatants. But, yeah, the application of this law is obviously meant to— If you murder someone, you are a terrorist. Including Jewish Israelis? You think they should—if Jewish Israelis carry out murder, you think they should— OK, as long as you're applying it fairly and equally. Absolutely. But I think I stated already that was my position. But OK, so can I can I finish my point without Emily and her screeching voice interrupting me constantly?

44:45Let me just finish my point. OK, the issue is the fact that Palestinians are tried in a military prison or I'm sorry, military courts, as opposed to, you know, is Jewish Israelis. I mean, this law is an extension of the apartheid system that Israel has been operating under for decades now. That is the problem. This law is yet another symptom of that deeper foundational problem within Israeli society. Israelis would like us to believe that they're the only democracy in the Middle East, that it's a wonderful utopia that Americans would love. It's very much in line with the Western world. It is not in line with the Western world.

45:25It is very important for the American people to understand that our special ally operates in ways that we would find absolutely horrendous. We would consider it treachery. And the idea that we continue to fund that government, fund that military, despite all of the atrocities that have been committed in Gaza, in the West Bank, now in Lebanon, also in Iran. By the way, quickly going back to your point about we don't know who bombed the school in Manab. We do know. Sadly, it was the United States because we're the only ones who have Tomahawk missiles and Tomahawk missiles were used to bomb that school.

46:00And it wasn't simply one strike. It wasn't two strikes. It was four strikes. OK, so that was a horrific situation. And I hate the fact that we as Americans have blood on our hands for carrying out that atrocity. But atrocities happen. It's one thing to realize you've committed an atrocity. Use actual punishment to prevent it from happening again. But that's not what's happening here. It's certainly not happening in Israel. It's not happening with our government, certainly under the leadership of Donald Trump. I mean, the guy thinks that we're winning the war in Iran. He keeps telling us that he's decimated their military.

46:35We just got New New York Times reporting yesterday saying that Iran was able to access most of their mobile, you know, missile launchers along the Strait of Hormuz. 70 % of their missiles are still intact. Just it's lie after lie after lie, Pierce. And we have to be honest about what's actually happening right now, or we're going to keep compounding the same mistakes over and over again.

46:59Piers Morgan:In a way, this plays back to what Rob O 'Neill said, which there's a lot of lying goes on in wars. Yeah, Iran's out of the fight. Their entire navy is on the bottom of the ocean. Jesus. It's not. But isn't the truth... I would love to believe that, but it's not. But, Rob, isn't the truth... It's not. You're right. Isn't the truth about the Iran war, Rob, that what the Iranians have discovered is they can get there... They can get pounded militarily, but as long as they can control the Strait of Hormuz in the way they have done... Piers, we're controlling the straits, and that's pressure on the Chinese, Piers.

47:29There's logic to all of that. There are so many points here. OK, well, Dora, let me come to you in a moment.

47:34Piers Morgan:I just want Rob to... I'm just saying, with all due respect, Anna just said the New York Times says, yeah, okay, I didn't know Baghdad Bob from the first war in Iraq had a job again. The Americans are committing suicide by the thousands. The Navy's sunk. Their army doesn't matter. They've been physically destroyed. It's a matter of you and the media waiting it out with them. Then why haven't we opened the Strait of Hormuz? If their military's been decimated, why haven't we militarily opened the Strait of Hormuz? I'm going across the Holy Land of Saudi Arabia and then Iran and the Strait of Hormuz are going to be obsolete.

48:05Piers Morgan:That's why we're giving them a chance. Do you want to still be in Iran? If not, fine, beat it. I think the problem we're giving them a chance is that Donald Trump has constantly set new timelines for this. It was going to be over in two or three weeks. Then it was six weeks. Then it was eight weeks. And I think the problem is, if I was advising President Trump, it would be like, maybe less is more in the constant announcements about all this. Look, I didn't want to start a war on Iran. I'm just saying Iran is not in this militarily. They're decimated. They don't even have leadership. Some of these guys are just despots because they have some missiles or launch them because they want to die because they believe in their version of heaven.

48:37Get your head in it. They've lost. It's a matter of the media holding out than us being weak again. That's it.

48:45Piers Morgan:Suicide bombings are carried out by Sunni Muslims, by Sunni Muslims, not Shia, not Shia Muslims. Sunni Muslims do the suicide bombings. Let me bring Doran in. Doran, do you want to comment on that? Just on the point of Iran, the tactical goal has been to eradicate their military. That happened very quickly. The strategic goal is to get the Iranians who work for the Chinese and the Russians to collaborate with us. That calls regime change or having some friendly general lead the uprising. I believe that this is still being pursued. As I said earlier, the Mossad and the CIA are not on vacation right now.

49:18And we have already demonstrated, by the way, I'm a U.S. citizen, just to be clear when I say we, we've already demonstrated that we can take any piece off the chessboard when we choose, which means that if we're okay with the people that we're negotiating with, we probably decided that these are the people we're going to speak with. With regard to the Straits of Varmouz, that's a strategic choke point relative to the bigger chess game, which is China-US. President Trump is on his way to speak with Xi when the oil that typically China gets from the Gulf is not coming there. 50 % of the oil that goes to China comes from the Gulf.

49:54So I think that we're comfortable as Americans with that particular leverage point that we have over China. There's no other way to interpret why President Trump is OK with this futile negotiation, because there's no rush until he completes the negotiation with Xi. And we've accomplished the tactical objective of eradicating the military in one week.

50:16Piers Morgan:Yeah, look, I don't agree necessarily with all your characterization of the current state of what's happening there, but I totally agree that what is happening right now in Beijing, or tomorrow morning, actually, I think they're all asleep now, but tomorrow morning when they're at their first meeting, if some of the reports are right, that President Trump is thinking of offering a gigantic trade deal to China to build factories in the United States for Americans to have product, it will be a very contentious thing with his base. It will be very contentious with the conservative right in America.

50:50Piers Morgan:but if it takes that for this Iran war to be resolved to give him enough time to maybe repair the damage in time for the mid-term elections, he may well take that deal. So I think there could be some massive announcements coming out of Beijing and it could precipitate the end of the war, which I suspect everybody would like to happen sooner rather later. We've run out of time, but thank you all very much indeed. A very interesting debate and I really appreciate all of you coming on. Thank you. Well, legions of fanatical followers are not something normally associated with CEOs, but rebel entrepreneur Ryan Cohen is no ordinary suit.

51:24Piers Morgan:Cohen is the boss of GameStop, the once ailing bricks-and-mortar video game store, which became a$10 billion business as the original meme stock. He made global headlines this month by launching an audacious$55 billion bid for eBay, and his first interview since that bid was emphatically rejected. Well, he now joins me. Well, welcome, Ryan Cohen, to Uncensored. Nice to see you. So you pulled off this extraordinary move where you made this gigantic bid for eBay, one of the biggest tech firms in the world. You tried to buy it and people immediately said, well, where's the money going to come from?

52:03Piers Morgan:And I want to play a clip from an interview you did with CNBC that went a bit viral when you seemed to struggle to give the answer. Maybe we can get some clarity. Let's take a look. I'm just trying to understand where the rest of the money would come from. IT'S HALF CASH, HALF STOCK. I HEAR YOU. I'M JUST SAYING THAT THAT MATH DOESN'T GET YOU TO THE PRICE THAT YOU'RE OFFERING.

52:34That's a pretty straightforward question. I DON'T GET IT. WHERE'S THE REST OF THE MONEY COMING FROM? Andrew laid it out pretty clearly. I DON'T UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION. We're offering half cash, half stock, and we have the ability to issue stock in order to get the deal done. But the full details of the offer are on our website.

52:59Piers Morgan:So they seemed a bit baffled, to be honest, Ryan, as did some other people. So Michael Burry, famous, of course, for the depiction of him and his shorting in the Big Short after the 2008 global financial crisis. He sold his entire position in your company, GameStop, immediately after that interview. He said, never confuse debt for creativity. He called the potential deal a road to capitalist hell. So, look, you've got the opportunity now, in a very uncensored environment, to clarify things. First of all, were you surprised by the reaction to your CNBC interview, and not least Michael Burry immediately selling his entire position?

53:42I was surprised by their lack of understanding of the structure because it's very simple. It's half cash. It's half stock. We have the ability to issue stock. Essentially, the eBay shareholders are going to continue owning eBay, except it's going to be run by an owner operator as opposed to an entrenched management team that has zero invested and zero skin in the game. And the other half of the structure, we've got$9 billion of cash on our balance sheet, and our bankers have advised us that they feel confident in our ability to raise$20 billion. So it's a straightforward deal, but it was too complicated for them on CNBC.

54:35Piers Morgan:Yeah, I mean, look, I know those guys at CNBC. They're extremely smart, particularly when it comes to business. They seem completely baffled and didn't think your maths added up. You make it sound very simple. Why are they so bemused? I don't know. Maybe they spent too much time in college or something. I have zero idea. Michael Burry is no fool. I'm sure you'd agree with that. He was the guy that predicted the crash in 2008. They made a movie about him. Is he completely wrong as well? Why is he just bailed out completely following that interview? you'd have to ask him. I can't speak for him. There's going to be leverage, more leverage than he likely anticipated, but I don't want to run a leveraged business.

55:27And I feel very good about our prospects to cut$2 billion of costs out of the business and likely a lot more than that. So, but I can't speak for Michael.

55:45Piers Morgan:I mean, look, you're obviously extremely smart business guy. You've made billions doing what you do and we'll come to some of the things you've done. So I'm not putting myself on your level at all here, but the CNBC people aren't stupid, nor is Michael Burry. And the general reaction has been one of severe doubt that you can finance this deal in the way that you are making sound so simple. What do you say to everyone who doesn't think this adds up? Well, first of all, in terms of skepticism, there's always been a lot of skepticism around GameStop. It's a business that was highly shorted, and everyone was betting against it.

56:31And it should have gone bankrupt many times over, and it didn't, and now it's highly profitable. Shoei, there was a lot of skepticism going head-to-head against Pets.com and then competing against Amazon. In this case, it's less about the actual financing and it's more about dealing with an entrenched board and management team that ultimately, if this transaction goes through, they rejected it and overall, they were right. It's not attractive to them Because if this deal goes through, the board that made$4 million in director fees last year is kaput and they're gone. And the management team that's making hundreds of millions of dollars in risk-free compensation and the CEO has never invested a dollar of his own money since being CEO.

57:24So that's the problem. And the problem is we need to deal with the owners of the business as opposed to a management team and board that has reverse financial incentives. And they're just employees. It's a paycheck. They're not the owners.

57:39Piers Morgan:The eBay response from their chairman, Paul Pressler, in a letter to you was, we have concluded your proposal is neither credible nor attractive. And they laid out six factors affecting their decision. One, eBay standalone prospects. They said eBay will do better going at a loan. Two, the uncertainty regarding your financing proposal. In other words, they don't think you have enough money via GameStop. The impact of your proposal on eBay's long-term growth and profitability. In other words, concerns for the future success of the company due to the talk of cuts. The leverage, operational risks and leadership structure of the combined entity.

58:17Piers Morgan:In other words, you might damage eBay in the long term by combining it with GameStop and poor management. The resulting implications of these factors on valuation. You might make eBay less valuable due to your management style. And GameStop's governance and executive incentives, in other words, they don't think you're fit to run eBay. What is your kind of overall response to the eBay management team? I'm not like them. I'm an owner-operator. I'm not one of the country club executives that get recruited through these professional agencies. So my incentives are aligned with maximizing shareholder value.

59:00And the way to do that at any company is to make the business stronger and much more profitable. So, I mean, they're going to throw up every single one of these excuses. The bottom line is we offered shareholders a 46 % premium to when we originally started buying it. and they didn't even take me up on my offer to meet with them. And they did all this BS stuff with their advisors and issued a public press release, but didn't set up a meeting with me. So ultimately, it's up to the owners of the business. They're just in the way.

59:38Piers Morgan:But on the specific point that people who are criticizing this have made, my understanding is the cash part of the offer is expected to be funded by, as you've illustrated, a combination of cash and liquid investments on your balance sheet at GameStop, which totaled$9.4 billion as of January 31 this year, and third-party acquisition financing with up to$20 billion in debt financing from TD Securities. Now, people have said that with GameStop currently valued at$10.69 billion, assuming GameStop's providing all its stock for the deal, you're looking at a$16 billion shortfall. So purely for viewers who don't want to get too much in the weeds, that is the weeds of this and why people are sceptical.

1:00:26Piers Morgan:To that specific point, what do you say? Well, there's dilution, but there's two kinds of dilution. There's dilution that's dilutive turnings per share, and there's dilution that's secretive earnings per share. So ultimately, this is not the first scenario where a smaller business has combined with a larger business. Ultimately, here what's changing is the management team and the board. And it would be run by me as opposed to a bunch of professional directors. And you want eBay ultimately, as you've put it, to be a legitimate competitor to Amazon. So obviously they operate in a similar kind of marketplace way.

1:01:13Piers Morgan:What would be the first things you do? I mean, Polymarket at the moment, the prediction market, has a 16 % possibility that you will still acquire eBay. So clearly, and certainly from your rhetoric and misinterview, you're not giving up at all in your pursuit of it. If you were to get your hands on it, what would be the things you would immediately do to try and be more competitive with Amazon? Well, when I say Amazon, it's not going head to head in first party large categories like consumables. And eBay is the place where you go to buy a rare pen or a trading card or something like that. Amazon is the place where you go to buy phone chargers.

1:01:57So it's not to beat Amazon at its own game. When I say Amazon, it's building something that's much larger. and I believe that the business, I don't believe I would make the business much, much more profitable by getting rid of the bloat and running it more like a family business as opposed to a gigantic corporation and moving much more quickly and focusing going deep into other categories like live commerce where eBay has not been able to compete and has all of the assets in order to compete. And there's a lot of other categories where eBay can do a lot better. So they're spending, by the way, they're spending over 50 % of their revenues on operating expenses.

1:02:44And the website still looks like it did in 1995. So it's a great business. And if you look at the financial performance of the company over the past five years, it's done terribly. And if you look at since the financial crisis, there's been a lot of competition in e-commerce. by way of from the Shopify's of the world to social commerce to Amazon. And yet eBay is still there in spite of having a really shitty management team. So I love the asset. It's run by a bunch of losers. And it's something that can be a lot more successful if it was run by an owner that's an entrepreneur that has not just a much larger vision, but knows how to run a business.

1:03:31and make a lot of money and cares because I have my own money on the line. So I don't like the management team. I don't like the board of directors. And I have such disdain for these people that make hundreds of thousands to tens of millions of dollars in risk-free compensation and everything is done in the name of corporate governance and all stuff like that. But they don't give a crap about shareholders.

1:03:55Piers Morgan:You're sounding a little bit like Elon Musk. Would you take that as a compliment? I mean, Elon has made history multiple times. So he's one of the greatest entrepreneurs of our time. Do you know him? Do you speak to him?

1:04:21We've messaged, but we don't have a personal relationship.

1:04:24Piers Morgan:And what about Jeff Bezos? I mean, the moment he hears someone say, we're going to compete with Amazon, He might take your view, we're going to crush you. What would you say if he decides to try and crush you?

1:04:39Well, we went head-to-head against Amazon selling 30-pound bags of pet food, and we did okay. And he's no longer running the business. So that's okay. Competition is good. But eBay has a moat, and they're not going head-to-head against Amazon. And my vision is not to go head to head against Amazon. It's to run eBay and to make it a much better, more profitable, larger eBay. And it's something that should be worth a lot more than it's worth because it can grow a lot more and it's going to make a lot more money.

1:05:18Piers Morgan:So if you type your name into Google, there are lots of variants of Ryan Cohen, a genius, Ryan Cohen, a halfwit and everything in between. You've probably seen it all yourself. You probably Google yourself like all good public figures. But for viewers who are not familiar with your story, you founded an e-commerce pet food company called Chewy and it did fantastically well. You sold it for$3.35 billion in 2017. Conversely, you had a 10 % stake in Bed Bath & Beyond in March 2022. You called for changes at the company, as you are doing now with eBay. You sent shares up as much as 70%. Five months later, you disclosed you'd sold your stake and the shares spiraled.

1:06:03Piers Morgan:So people look at the first one and think, genius. Second one, think, sharp operator. Can we really trust him? What would you say to people that have that view of you? I've done two things. I built and was the CEO of Chewy, and I'm the CEO of GameStop. So those were the companies where I was involved personally in building and running those companies. In terms of other stuff and investments in Bed Bath, I wasn't running that business. That was, again, a professional management team that remarkably ran a business that was a great business into the ground very, very, very quickly. And it's remarkable what they did.

1:06:52Not in a good way, but, you know, they ran the business to the ground and they were buying back stock while losing hundreds of millions of dollars. So, but I wasn't running that business.

1:07:03Piers Morgan:There are lots of top business people who were on Air Force One with President Trump flying to Beijing, where there's expected to be a lot of activity in the next few days. Obviously, you weren't on the plane. Would you like to have been? Because I understand you are quite a supporter of Donald Trump. I am, but I am focused on running GameStop and I'm focused on taking over eBay. Have you spoken to Donald Trump at all about any of this? I have not. Do you anticipate doing so? I don't know. I mean, if it's appropriate and it makes sense, right now I'm dealing with a bunch of professionals that are in the way.

1:07:53Piers Morgan:You're sounding quite pumped up and ruthless, Ryan. I mean, if the eBay executives are watching this, Should they be quivering in their overpaid, bloated boots?

1:08:07They're going to do whatever they need to do to protect their jobs. I understand. It's survival. It's a paycheck for them. But I want to run that business. I'm passionate about e-commerce. That's my core competency. And I want to make it a much larger business. So I would like for them to engage with me constructively as opposed to giving me a BS response and not really understanding the components of the deal because it's attractive to shareholders. And that's their job is to be a fiduciary of money that really they're not the owners. They're far from the owners. They don't they don't invest their own money.

1:08:53They're milking it. So they have a job to do the best for shareholders and engage on this. And if they don't, then we'll do whatever we need to do.

1:09:03Piers Morgan:I mean, that sounds almost mafioso.

1:09:09It's business.

1:09:12Piers Morgan:Polymarket, as I said, have you at 16 % to be successful in acquiring eBay. What would you put the percentage at? What did they say the odds of Trump winning the presidency were? Probably the first time less than 16 % at the end, actually. If we ask them going head-to-head against Amazon selling 30-pound bags, or turning around GameStop for that matter, actually. I mean, everyone in the mainstream media, most investors were betting against GameStop. And look at the financial performance of the company. It went from losing hundreds of millions of dollars to now it's making hundreds of millions of dollars.

1:09:55And everyone makes fun of GameStop. No one takes it seriously. All of Wall Street wrote it off, but it's a real business. It's not a good, it's not like eBay. It's not a great business. It's physical retail. It's tough. It's dealing with a lot of headwinds. But skepticism is okay. It's good. It's normal.

1:10:18Piers Morgan:Do you have a favourite GameStop meme yourself? There's a lot of them. And there's a lot of funny ones. Well, Ryan, it's good to talk to you. It's going to be fascinating to see what happens. And I'll send your regards to the CNBC guys, who I'm sure will be most entertained by your description of them. But thank you very much, Steve, for joining me. Yes, definitely. Nice to talk to you. Piers Morgan on Sensor is proudly independent, The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we offer only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

1:10:57Piers Morgan:And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.