“TYPICAL LIBTARD!” Trump 007 Escape, Greta PRAISES Piers Morgan + Mao Debate W/ Victor Davis-Hanson

22:52Something's wrong with Air Force One. There's a technical glitch. Folks, we're going to be flying the other plane just for our safety. Come on, everyone, the staff, Marco Rubio, the press, come on. Instead, he literally abandons them, runs away in a catering truck, and lets that plane, with not just the press, but his own staff, fly, assuming that Donald Trump was on the plane, and furthermore, completely blind and oblivious to the fact that there was a credible assassination plot. So, God forbid, God forbid, Pierce, suppose that credible assassination plot, right, suppose, God forbid, that plane exploded.

23:28That means he literally abandoned them, like he's abandoning the country. And furthermore, I agree with you. I think if, God forbid, that plane would have blown up or been sabotaged, and forget even the journalists, even the staff, the civilians had died, I think it would have been a tragedy. And I don't think Americans are psychopaths. I think they would have said, we need a full investigation. We need transparency. Even if we don't like the press, even if we don't like Marco Rubio, how could this be such a cluster F of a national security, right, that you allow these people to die and or face security threats while the president was safely escorted away.

24:03And I think that would be a massive scandal, regardless of who's president.

24:08Piers Morgan:OK, let's move on. I agree with a lot of what you said there. Let's move to what's been happening, Jojo, with the rise of the Democratic socialists in America is a fascinating story. Now, Francesca Hong, who wanted to get rid of Thanksgiving, then changed her mind, wants to defund the police, blah, blah, blah. She didn't win in the end, but she did get a lot of votes. And a lot of other of these democratic socialist candidates have been doing better than people would have expected maybe a few months ago. Are you celebrating this? Do you think that the rise of democratic socialism in America is a winnable ticket for the Democrats in a general election?

24:51Piers Morgan:Because that really is the fundamental question here, because many people think that, look, these people, El-Sayed is a good example. You know, they can galvanize people locally and they can get a lot of attention nationally, but they couldn't win a general election. What do you feel about this? El-Sayed says he's not a democratic socialist. Let's just start with that. But I think that what this says and what this signals is that the Democratic Party has to be listening to their voters, that there is hunger for a change, largely younger candidates who are talking to the people about what they need, what their lived experiences are, and having actual plans to address them.

25:35I think that the Democratic Party has been reluctant to change for far too long. And what we're seeing right now is energy that is moving away from the establishment. And I think that that's an important thing to listen to. And I think that there is growth there. And I think that these candidates, again, El Ced is not a Democratic socialist. But I think, you know, in the general election in Michigan, he's already making that pivot. And I think we've seen it. He was he was on the Sunday morning shows and he was fantastic. And everything that he was talking about resonated with someone who I think of myself as more of a centrist in terms of being a Democrat.

26:11And the things that he said made perfect sense to me. I think that these candidates can do that. I think that they can thread the needle between, you know, the younger voters and what they're looking for, which are which is younger candidates who are listening to their lived experience and somebody who's been around the block a few times, like a 52 year old mom like me.

26:31Piers Morgan:All right, Elijah Schaefer. I mean, my take on this is I look at people like Mamdani in New York. I look at El Syed. They're very, very good communicators. They're young. They're dynamic. I may not agree with many of their policy ideas, but I can certainly recognize political game when I see it. I would not underestimate AOC is another one. I wouldn't underestimate their ability to resonate, particularly with a younger audience in America. But it is at the same time very concerning, I think, to people who are more of the old fashioned centrist Democrat, if you like, to watch the rise of genuine socialists here.

27:11Piers Morgan:What do you feel about it? Yeah, it's obvious that right now, currently, you know, we've all been told to support capitalism. And the right, especially republicanism, has been very pro-capitalism, laissez-faire, you know, the white hand, let the economy work. But the economy is not working for younger millennials and down. And you cannot refute the way that young people feel. And while we're spending$3 billion a day fighting Israel's war in Iran, another war decades in, watching infrastructure collapse, you know, state corruption. There's a, you know, railroad to nowhere, high speed bullet train in California, all the way to every new highway is a toll road in Texas.

27:50You know, people can't afford homes. They can't afford to go out to eat. People don't see a future with a family or to have children. So not only do we have the rise of democratic socialism, as I mentioned earlier, on the left, which is the natural recourse, because you know what, I'm going to admit this. A lot of times Fox tries to scare people into hating socialism, and it's correct, because socialism will hurt anyone who has an investment in this country, anyone who has capital, anyone who's established. But people that should be established that are quite old now are not. And it really wouldn't affect them as much as they think.

28:21So we not only have the right moving towards far-right socialist ideas at the state level, but we also have these issues where you see people saying, why are people voting Muslims in? You mentioned the other person running for Congress? Well, it's because people see that a lot of Muslims are not taking Israeli money. They're against AIPAC. And maybe it's more important to stop the wars overseas so we can focus on domestic, not international policy on behalf of a foreign country. And maybe that's going to be our best chance to actually fixing this. My opinion, my final opinion is this, unless we get AIPAC out of American politics, unless we stop funneling our money into foreign intervention, into being the world's police, into winning the Iran war on a 42nd time, closing and opening the straight, you will see young people unequivocally turn towards a top-down state-mandated regulation of finances and increase of taxes because the current system sucks.

29:16It's not helping people. People see no path forward. And extremism is the only other thing. And extreme polarization will continue forward. And that's what's going to happen unless we actually get control of our government and it starts representing the people and making appropriate economic policies. Other than that, then we're going to see Muslims align with the young people. We're going to see, you know, democratic socialists. We're going to see communism and we're going to see Nazism. We're going to see far right fascism become very popular in the next 20 years, unless we actually get back to focusing on the American dream, which has been dead for at least 15 years.

29:51Piers Morgan:Okay. Let me bring Tyrus in on this. Tyrus, it seems to me it's a fascinating moment in American political history, because it's both on the left and the right. You have where you you have like the conservatives on the right. You have on the left, the Democrat. Everyone is struggling to work out what the soul of the party ought to be. And you're seeing the same thing happen with MAGA and the right. You're seeing the same on the left now. But let's talk first about what's happening on the left. How concerned are you about the rise of democratic socialism? Not at all. It's the will of the American people.

30:30And that's what that's why we vote. And I wouldn't vote for a socialist. But if my neighbor does. And more of my neighbors vote for it than I do, then that will be the course of this country. I mean, whether you like it or don't like it, that's how this is supposed to work. But a lot of it, I think it is. And this whole idea of the American dream is dead. Everyone sitting here on this panel right now is enjoying the benefits of the American dream. We're allowed to say whatever we want and with very little repercussions that maybe somebody trolling us. But the whole point of this is that we saw during the pandemic a real breakdown of you can live off the government, you can not have to work hard, your quality of life is more important than work ethic.

31:19And we saw that. That was one of the horrible spills. We saw a whole generation of people. I had to deal with my two sons to where their high school experience was nothing more than a laptop. And they spent more time surfing on other stuff than actually paying attention to school. And then they were graduate and then they're cast out in the world, supposed to go work. And the tools that they needed weren't there. But then, well, hey, I can just live off dad or, hey, I can just blame this. And another thing is that one of the things we're missing is for our young generation, their JFK moment was the Epstein files.

31:53That is the conspiracy thing. That's what wrapped young people up. That's what made them think that all government's corrupt, all politicians are dirty. And even if you do the right thing or try to do the right thing, something bad's going to happen to you. We have a whole young generation of that. But it's a microcosm. Another thing is nobody votes. Mondami won in New York. He had no real opposition and only 11 % turned out to vote. So it's more of the fact that Americans just aren't involved. I think they're exhausted by the, by politics and the media. I think they're exhausted by fighting with neighbors.

32:26So I'm just not going to, I'm going to sit this one out. And there's this young core that is mobilized. I would say misguided because they're so spoiled in America. This is the only country where you can wake up every morning and you can go find a job or you can get a meal of food. All you have to do is go get it. I'm not I'm about the American dream has made my life I have I have a wonderful life I work my ass off I've got more failures than victories but that's the point of this country this is the only place we can all sit and talk shit about our president and say whatever we want to do because this is America and if the American populace votes for a Muslim in in the White House that's so be it it's the voice of the American people and that's what it's always going to be but I think it's more of they're doing well because of low voter turnout and the other thing is we have a group and we saw this in the 70s america always reconnects there's always a time and right now our young people are very skeptical of the government because of what they saw and what the benefits were for a lot of them during the pandemic was i don't really have to work hard all i do is complain enough and the government will give me money peers may i yeah

33:30Piers Morgan:i completely agree with that point about young yeah which i respond but there's a lot there that i was agreeing with what what did you think of what tara's just said the perfect lunch combo. That first bite of your favorite sub, followed by ice cold Pepsi. Add a couple of friends, and now that's next level. Suddenly, the laughs get louder, the stories keep flowing, and the food tastes better. Because Pepsi brings out more flavor, more fun, and more of the moment. Food deserves Pepsi. Grab a Pepsi Zero Sugar today. Let's go back 20 years to Barack Obama. I was told he was unelectable. Barack Hussein Obama, he can't win.

34:09And it was going to be Hillary Clinton's, the establishment pick. Why did he win? Because he presented something. The failure of the war on terror, which you and I, Pierce, rightfully opposed. Also, the 2008 economic crisis, right? He won. Then you look at 2016. Donald Trump wasn't going to win. How could Donald Trump win? This guy's a reality TV star. This man has no elected experience whatsoever. But he promised that he'd be a bulldozer. He wasn't. But nonetheless, he promised he'd be a bulldozer. He'd change it. People said, I want to change. I'm fed up with the system. 2024, he wins again.

34:43The same people voted for Donald Trump in 2024. Turn around and vote for that Democratic Socialist AOC and also Mamdani. How do you make sense of it all? Because it's top versus bottom. The 1 % versus the 99%. People are sick and tired of an establishment and institutions that no longer work for them. The average age to get a home. Do you know what the average age is now in 2026? 41. In the 1990s, it was 27. 60 % of Americans say they have tough time making their ends meet. The rich have gone richer. Everyone has gone poorer. Wages have remained stagnant. Workers in America work harder than Japanese workers and European workers.

35:20We leave more vacation days on the table. We're dying younger, but we don't have health care. One of the top three reasons why people are in debt is due to health care in the wealthiest country in the world that finds billions of dollars to fight an illegal, unwinnable war in Iran and give billions of dollars to Israel, but says, you know what, we can't give you universal childcare. United States is the only industrialized country, Pierce, that does not guarantee paid paternal leave, paid family leave. So people are sitting there saying, you promised me the American dream. I can't afford the American dream.

35:50I got two people in this house working two jobs each, and we're barely making. Meanwhile, Donald Trump, the Epstein class, the billionaires, are making a record amount of money. The system is rigged. This is why I think you're seeing a lot of people say, we don't care about Democrats, we don't care about Republicans. What are you, Democratic Socialists? Sure. Let me roll the dice. This is my pointer to people. Anyone who's listening, anyone who's a Democrat or Republican wants to win. These are the wide open lanes. Go against the establishment. Go against billionaires. Go against the Epstein class.

36:23Go against forever worse. Stop taking money from AI, APAC, or crypto. Fight for the people. Fight for universal healthcare, universal childcare, fight for living wages, an economic progressive populist agenda is what's uniting so many people regardless of their political affiliation. And as the rich keep getting richer, Pierce, you're gonna see this growing rage universally, it's not just in America, a growing rage. This is unsustainable, which is why I think democratic socialism, with all the fear-mongering against them, Francesca Hong barely lost by four-tenths of a point. Abdul, as Joe said, is not a democratic socialist, won by a point.

36:59David McKinney won in Michigan as a Democratic Socialist. Yesterday, Peggy Flanagan won as a progressive in Minnesota. Mike Little won in Minnesota's second district, despite$3.5 million in APEC money, still won. And you just saw the poll came out today that Mbamrani has a, what, plus 14 approval, and he's gone up. You have to change the economic system. It's top versus bottom. Yeah.

37:24Piers Morgan:And, you know, it's interesting to me as a non-American to see that if you actually look at a lot of what you just said about what people are gravitating to, they're also gravitating to people on the right who also share those views. You know, Tucker Carlson, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Megyn Kelly to a degree and others. You know, there's a kind of unity of agreement about things like not interfering in foreign wars, about why the Epstein files should have all been revealed and so on. which is really interesting to me as a non-American to watch this convergence of agreement between completely polar opposite people before coming together in a strange way.

38:06Piers Morgan:And I'm not entirely sure how it all plays out. Let's turn to another contentious issue of the week. And Jojo, I'll come to you first on this. This is the whole issue of Sophie Cunningham in the WNBA, who made a statement about her opposition to having trans athlete, trans women competing in the WNBA. She made a point she has nothing against trans people. She totally respects them, but she doesn't think it's fair. I read the statement. I saw nothing to disagree with. I completely agree with her. I think the whole thing is completely insane. I don't know why we have to still debate this. It's so obviously unfair.

38:44Piers Morgan:It's why we separate the sexes in things like the Olympics or the World Cup, football, whatever it may be. However, it's become this sort of touch paper, if you like, for what they call the culture war debate. And it sort of manifested itself with Sophie Cunningham playing after her statement and just being taken out by the Chicago Sky Guard, Dijoné Carrington, who then got ejected for what she did and subsequently posted white privilege on social media and tagged fever in the post. Now, Cunningham's service has nothing to do with race, but she's right, it didn't. Last year, I did the same thing.

39:22Piers Morgan:I got kicked out. I deserve to be kicked out. There's no reason even to play that card. Dijoné later posted on X, I've never once claimed that the assessment of the foul was white privilege. That was your assumption. Try exercising critical thinking skills and then went on a bit more of a moan. But, of course, she had exactly done what she pretended she hadn't done. She had said white privilege and tagged fever. That's what she was clearly talking about. So on this, you've got a lot of stuff going on. Let's start with a fundamental point here, which has driven the controversy. Do you understand, Jojo, that the vast majority of people, left and right, in America and around the world, actually, But in America, the vast majority think it is completely unfair, purely from a science stroke biology perspective, for trans athletes to compete in women's sport.

40:19I think that this is an issue that for some strange reason, some people in this country like to make a bigger issue than it actually is. The percentage of trans athletes in professional sports of any kind is minuscule. I think Sophie Cunningham is entitled to her opinion. I think that this is a conversation that needs to happen with more nuance.

40:44Piers Morgan:But to be clear, do you agree with Sophie Cunningham? And if you don't, what is it about what she said that you don't agree with? Well, I don't have the exact statement. So I'm not exactly... Do you have it in front of you? Can you read what she actually said? Well, trans women, we'll get the exact statement, but essentially trans women have an unfair advantage over biological females is the premise of her argument. And she said she's not remotely transphobic. She doesn't hate trans people. She has no problem with trans people's existence. She just believes fundamentally that if you're born a biological male, if you then identify as a trans woman, you have an unfair physical advantage over biological females.

41:31Piers Morgan:It is an undeniable fact, and it is why we separate sexes in sport. So my question for you is a straightforward one. You may not think it's a big problem. Actually, the United Nations in 2024 identified nearly 1 ,000 different cases up and down the levels of girls' and women's sport around the country where girls and women have been deprived of a medal in competitive sport by trans athletes. So it's not a small problem. If that was the number of people doping, I'm sure you would be appalled and say the doping has to stop. And the doping, of course, gave people an unfair advantage. So I don't understand why we're even still arguing about this.

42:12Piers Morgan:And I think people on the left honestly have to just wake up, smell the cappuccino, do a bit of biology if they didn't study it at school, and understand that this is not a contentious issue. It worries me, Piers, that I don't think that what she said was transphobic. I will say that. But what worries me is that it's a gateway, an on-ramp to transphobia. And I think we've seen that as a ramification of a lot of this rhetoric about an issue that in this country in particular, collegiate sports, high school sports, elementary school, sports, grammar school, this is not actually, percentage-wise, a very big issue.

42:49What I worry about is that it vilifies an already marginalised group of people that are just trying to live their lives, you know, authentically. That's what I'm concerned about.

43:00Piers Morgan:But I blame, yeah, but hang on. Yeah, but Jojo, let me bring Taris in here because I can tell he's struggling with what you're saying here. Taris, my problem with this is it's chicken and the egg. people get accused of whipping up mockery towards trans people, to which I say the problem has been caused by people feigning to be their allies. They say, I'm a trans ally, but by perpetuating the myth that there is nothing unfair about trans athletes competing in women's sport, they are exposing trans people to mockery. And I've heard this from trans people myself, both as guests on my show and trans people I know myself, that they are sick and tired of this debate being fueled by their so-called allies.

43:46Look, a man trying to play in women's sports should be vilified. Absolutely. It's the only reason why they're doing it is for advantage. You know, you take the swimmer. He was, what, 72nd? He was pretty much irrelevant in men's swimming. Lo and behold, he woke up one morning and he's a woman now, and now he's competing for championships and making comments like he should be in the Olympics. It's it's the reason why it's being done is for advantage. That's why you don't see it. Like, for example, in the equestrian world where men and women compete on horses because the horse is the deciding factor.

44:20There's no trans athletes there because there's no advantage. So this is just back to thing. It's the same thing with when a black person is racist against a white person. Everyone's like, well, you can't blame that because he's black. No, absolutely. The individual deserves bad behavior, deserves correction. and it's for advantage and i think what it is absolutely hilarious what is going on right now with freedom and i think royce where they decided to be trans to join the wmba to call them out on their narrative uh why they still do this why sophie cunningham she should just be allowed to play basketball or her statements shouldn't have been controversial it's it's a such a ridiculous argument it's it's just one of the things of the first world the new narrative of everybody's you know special when they're not you know and when we were kids this wasn't an issue uh boys didn't play in girls sports and you know even if they tried girls had these things called older brothers and it didn't happen you know it's this isn't this is something that is just ridiculous it's part of the woke thing i don't know if there's funding that goes for it i don't know why you know women come out and support men playing in women's sports it's ridiculous to me i wouldn't let my daughters play against a boy of the same age because it's just, there's a reason for it.

45:35Unfortunately, and look at domestic violence stats, men are physically stronger than women, period. That's just facts. Women are smarter, but men are physically more aggressive. There's a reason why we're built the way we're built, and it is an unfair statement. And it's always, they're always at the top of their game because if they came into women's sports and they weren't succeeding and they weren't dominating, they all of a sudden wouldn't do it. They can play. There is a place for them to play. They can play in men's sports. Men are more accepting. Hey, if you're good at what you do, if you can catch the ball and you want to wear a dress, Dennis Rodman exemplified that.

46:10He was he married himself and he was the most vicious defender in the NBA. No one kicked him out. So, I mean, this is this. I agree with you. This is a an issue that shouldn't be an issue. But we are living in a time where social media and mainstream media will rev this stuff up on both sides. And we're arguing and talking about it instead of focusing on really important things. And again, transgender people who are just trying to live their life, they're not trying to play sports.

46:39Piers Morgan:Yeah, I will bring you in. I just want to get you. I wanted to ask Tara specifically about Dijoné's behavior here. She's a racist. She's clearly a racist. and she won thousand percent got in the locker room i don't know if her phone was in her pocket or what and said white privilege you switch that let's revolt let's say cunningham took her down got ejected went into the locker room and wrote black privilege this would be a very different panel and there's this unfortunately one of the side effects in america is it's okay to be racist against white people it's not and the fact that we've allowed it that american that american media allows this to happen to her her statement was worth i mean i'm just straight up no one's saying it you're lying you actually got some pushback for making a really raceless comment about a person you plan to lead with and we need to start holding people accountable just because your pigment's darker doesn't give you the right to attack someone because their pigment isn't it's it's it's idiocy that we even allow it i totally agree so she played the race card she She then pretended she hadn't.

47:48Piers Morgan:Yeah, well, Jarhat, I just want to read part of the article that Sophie Cunningham wrote for ESPN. I got a lot of negative feedback about me hating trans, she said. And I'm like, I never once said that. I think I'm here to extend love, but I also think that with love is truth and being honest. I want to protect young girls in a locker room or young girls in sport who shouldn't have to go against biological men. And in a follow-up interview, she said, I said what I said. I think it's kind of common sense. I think it's really important to protect children. I stand on what I said. Now, again, I would just ask you, is there anything she said that you object to, that you find fundamentally to be wrong?

48:26So allow me to respond, if I will, I'll respond to all the questions. First and foremost, I want to go back to the race question. Just this week, the president of the United States, that's Donald Trump from the Oval Office, said that Somali Americans are dumb. This is on top of him calling them criminals. It's on top of them saying -

48:41Piers Morgan:What does that have to do with Dijon? Wait, wait, I'll get to it. Just stick with me. Wait, wait, let's think about it. Nancy May said the most Islamophobic tweet. People did not in any way, shape or form condemn it. And then you also have, speaking about protecting women. I did. I did on this show. President of the United States. Which I did on this very show. I literally condemned. I'm glad you did. So when you say no one condemned it, I did. And when Trump says those things about Somalians, I condemned that too. What's that got to do with Sophie Cunningham? Piers, wait, wait, you're talking about racism I'm talking about the complete double standard Because you say protect women, not you, not you, Piers I'm talking about Republicans, protecting women, right?

49:23It's all about protecting women, right? Let's protect women This week, the President of the United States of America stood by Max Miller, who is a representative in Ohio, who literally has been credibly accused of spousal abuse and injuring his infant This has got nothing to do with Sophie Cunningham

49:41Piers Morgan:Max Miller is just crazy He should not be in office and the fact that he's still in as a joke. Wait, wait. You all care about him. The American people will take care of him. Max Miller is a psychopath, right? The stuff with the bunny rabbit alone is disqualified. I have spoken. He doesn't watch him for a white years. He has no idea what his sponsor is about. He's here to talk about. He's obsessed with Trump. If you don't mind me saying. He's obsessed with Trump. All I would say to you is it is sounding, with Jaha, like you are deliberately distracting back to Trump, back to Republicans, back to offensive things, which I've condemned.

50:14Piers Morgan:because you... Not you. I don't care about double standards. I want you to... No, but I want you to talk about the issue of trans... The entire issue. Okay. Talk about the issue of trans women Give me 30 seconds. Give me 30 seconds. But last of the question. For two years, for two years, Republicans have spent$200 million. In the 2024 election, $200 million was spent on the anti-transgender campaign. The issue was, we have to protect women, right? We have to protect women. There are zero transgender men in the WNBA. Zero. Meanwhile, in the past two years, you know what they did to protect women?

50:51They support Max Miller. You know what they do to protect women? Take away money from women, infant children. You know what they do to protect women? Destroy abortion rights. You know what they do to protect women? Don't do anything for healthcare. Right now, billions of dollars are going to work to kill women. So you guys care about women so much. You take money away from women, infant children. Okay, which I had. You take women away from healthcare. and a trillion dollars will be cut from Medicaid, which will kill women. You guys have created a bogeyman. Leave transgender people alone, Piers.

51:20Piers Morgan:I get it. This is what we wrote down before the show. I'm sorry. I'm not reading anything, Piers. I'm sorry, Piers. Go on Fox News and the third year Matthews, buddy. I'm sorry, Piers. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Piers. But, no, Piers. Here's the problem. You talk about leaving trans women alone. Zero. I'm talking specifically about trans women competing in women's sport unfairly. Do you think it's unfair or not? It's not zero. It's not zero. There are zero transgender men in the WNBA. Why can't you let these women just play the basketball game? Transgender people are the most murdered community in America.

51:59Trump has spent two years attacking them. Leave them alone. You won. You won. You beat them up. You mocked them. You ridiculed them. You ridiculed them. You humiliated them. You know. You know. Why are you obsessed with them? Nobody, I don't want to mock. Why are you so obsessed with them?

52:08Piers Morgan:I don't want to mock or ridicule any trans people. I believe trans people deserve the same rights as you or me or Tyrus or Jojo, but not at the expense of eroding women's rights to safety, equality, and unfairness. Do you disagree? Piers, zero men in the WNBA. Zero. Can I say something here? Just to be clear. He's not saying anything. No, hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Hang on one second. I'm going to pin Wajahat down. You are aware of. Hang on. Hang on. Wajahat. Wajahat. Wajahat. No, I'm not. I just told I just told you that nearly a thousand girls and women, according to the United Nations, missed out on medals in 2024 because of trans women competing against biological females.

53:02Piers Morgan:It is not a zero issue. Leah Thomas, the swimmer, went from being a mediocre swimmer in the men's game as a biological man to becoming unbelievably championship winning successful as a so-called women athlete. Right. It is unfair and wrong. We saw in the last Paris Olympics, we saw a Algerian boxer who hit an Italian woman so hard that the Italian woman quit after 45 seconds because she'd never been hit that hard. women are going to die at the altar of this transgender in women's sport activism, and you dismiss it as being irrelevant and you don't care, and you say it's a zero issue, to which I say with Jaha, you are completely wrong.

53:47Piers Morgan:And one of the reasons why the left keep losing on these culture wars is not because of the hypocrisy you rightfully identify. I don't disagree with you at all about the double standards and hypocrisy, But on this fundamental issue of whether it is fair and right and equal and safe for trans women to compete in women's sport, you are completely wrong. And you are deluding yourself if you think it is a zero problem. Mike, can I respond? I will respond very quickly. If you think that this is going to distract people, I don't think it will. I think this is an issue that died out in 2024. You're beating a dead horse.

54:24I also think if you cared about women, if you do, I think you do, Pierce, you would actually invest in women's health, in Roe v. Wade, in abortion rights, in women, infant children, in Medicaid. This is what people care about. You guys have beaten up transgender people for two years. Let it go. And there are zero transgender people.

54:45Piers Morgan:Transgender people are literally beating up women in Olympic boxing rings and winning gold medals that ought to go to actual women. They are the ones who are beating up. Why can't you understand that? That boxer failed. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

55:11Piers Morgan:Wajahat made a statement that that woman, as he puts it, was not transgender. In fact, that woman failed a chromosome test, which is why she was banned from the world championships. and has so far refused to take a sex test, which would simply establish whether she is biologically male or female. We know why she's refusing to do it. So it's complete bullshit to say that she is a woman. Piers, do you agree with me that if we want to protect women... You're almost out of time, boss. Wait, wait, right now, Donald Trump should not support Max Miller, who is accused of beating up his wife and his daughter.

55:44Correct?

55:44Piers Morgan:He should resign. I think you make perfectly good points about hypocrisy and double standards, but it will be noted for the record that you think there is zero problem with trans athletes and women's sport. No, I said zero WNBA players. You're either on that, you're right at the moment, but there will be. And that's why these two men who are testing the system, the two former male basketball players are now saying we're going to test the system. And we're seeing the WNBA saying they're going to have to have a meeting to work out what a woman is. This is how fucking nuts this debate has got let me bring in elijah before we finish elijah hang on let me bring in elijah wait a minute let me bring in elijah not proud enough man enough to yeah not proud enough man enough to say it i saw those leaks of britney grinder uh playing basketball with the shirt off looks like kleinfelter syndrome probably an intersex individual not going to mock her or him or how they identify my backgrounds in molecular biology and genetics i understand And there are real genetic anomalies that happen where people present one way sexually but have multiple variations of chromosomes.

56:53We're not talking about that. Let's talk about three things really quickly here. The trans issue in general. That was invented back in 2011. Go back to the Obama era when you had the populist movement rising. We all thought in 2008 we'd have a black president. America would heal. We would get over the war on terror. But then we ended up having populism. You have the Tea Party, Glenn Beck. You have the Occupy Wall Street, notable figures like Tim Pool coming out of that. You start seeing this similar move today towards this populism and figuring out that the oligarchs, this is a huge internal issue in our country that are gutting our nation dry, regardless of political affiliation.

57:32So what does the establishment do? They introduce the culture war. We get the legalization of gay marriage. Don't worry, it's not going to snowball. What are we going to tell your kids about anal sex in school? You think we're going to be pushing your kids to chop off their balls and chemically castrate themselves? Well, they did. And I kind of agree with Wajahot that it's a little bit dead, but why are we even arguing this? It's because the culture war divided us, it polarized us, and it made us care about issues that don't affect us. Here's why. We're on network television. You know, Pierce, you have a formidable, very, very large, even online following in the United States, tens of millions of people.

58:07And we're here arguing about a sport that nobody wants to watch. Sports are about competition, about the best of the best. The fact that we're talking about women's sports, I don't care about women's sports, and neither do most Americans, because, like, the same reason why we don't get super excited about the Special Olympics, which they're very similar. I care about the best of the best. If a woman's really good and she could compete in male sports, then good, let her compete. Athletics shouldn't be about sex and gender. Athletics should be about competition of the greatest and the best. And if women can't compete, then maybe they weren't designed.

58:36That's not what their purpose is, is to be athletic and competitive and be on the market. So when we're talking about men being in women's sports, the fact that we're even talking about this, who cares about women's sports? Let JoJo go. Let JoJo go.

58:50Piers Morgan:Elijah, I'm going to give the final word to JoJo because I think she's ready to blow. I mean, that was a nine-layer dip of just fucking what the fuck, dude. When your voice changes, let's have a real conversation, okay? In the meantime, you can shut your fucking stupid ass up about what, look, you said your penis is small. I didn't say your penis is small, dude. I don't want to ever think about your penis. But for you - You mentioned it three times in one sentence. Compare. I mean, the whole thing, it was disgusting. You're thinking. Honestly, you just managed in like a 10 second soundbite to disparage people with disabilities and women in the same soundbite.

59:35And like you're sitting there in your high chair and all your smugness without a freaking talking about your tiny little penis dude you like it's disgusting you're reminding an autistic person i'm diagnosed level two autistic and i even got i was an autistic paraprofessional as a matter of fact i was a paraprofessional for autistic preschoolers i'm not i'm not the one who is talking about and by the way remind me again when they started talking about how to have anal sex with children in school and when exactly they're making decisions about lobbing off parts of their body. I don't know who you are.

1:00:10I don't know how old you are. I am not mocking you for being autistic. I think that autistic people are incredible. Again, I spent seven, almost seven years of my life working with the most amazing children I have ever met. And it was one of the great blessings of my life. But you have managed, don't mock, don't, if that's supposed to be like mocking me, I don't appreciate that. I was appreciating what you did. But I don't take a lot of the things that you're saying seriously. You just said that women aren't cut out for sports. Like, that's the kind of shit that makes people. Against men. That's not what you said.

1:00:46That isn't what you said. Yeah, I'm talking about professional sports. Professional sports are the best of the best.

1:00:50Piers Morgan:Okay, isn't. Women are not the best in sports. We've got to wrap things up. You did. You know what? Caitlin Clark, for example, is one of the most thrilling sports women I've seen in a long time, right? The whole reason I feel so passionately about this issue of not letting trans women compete in women's sport is so that people like Caitlin Clark can be genuine superstars in the women's sporting arena and not have to worry about six foot, nine inch guys suddenly saying, I'm a woman and coming in and taking their place on teams. That is what we're seeing happening more and more around the world at all levels of sport, which our hat doesn't think is happening.

1:01:27Piers Morgan:I simply say Google it and surprise yourself. I want to end. I was going to ask you all about James Bond, because the producer, Amy Pascal, said that Daniel Craig is a hard act to follow. She's going to be something really different that is stirring, exciting and different. I haven't got time to ask you all. I would say as a as Greta Thunberg, as given I'm her hero as a guy. Congratulations on that, by the way. Thank you very much. I'm not entirely sure she was being sincere, but I'll take it. I'll take the win. Take any compliment you can get. But what I would say... Exactly, Taurus. But what I would say is a white, middle-aged British guy is that it should be a white, middle-aged British guy who plays James Bond.

1:02:06Piers Morgan:And I would like this surprising twist. I would like him to go back to being a hard-drinking, chain-smoking, aggressive, violent, ruthless dispatcher of the bad guys, an ardent womaniser, pretty amoral, somebody who's politically incorrect, somebody who you would love to have a drink with, but wouldn't want to antagonize because he might shoot you. I'd like to go back to what James Bond was supposed to be, rather than a weeping, crying, vulnerable, imbecilic creature who isn't allowed to do any of those things. Can we please have James Bond back? Thank you. Yes, Taurus, you be the villain, I'll be Bond, and it all ends with me taking you out on an island.

1:02:53are white middle-aged white middle-aged man british people are white that's not offensive it's their country people can become nationally british i guess through naturalization but a lot of british people are not wild so a lot of but you know what you know what

1:03:08Piers Morgan:i won't let you put james bond you know what you know what i won't let you put a lot of racism in the end that's how it's always total though like like your comments about women is total total uh would you have final words you very quickly running out of time good luck uh pierce i knew too much about your fantasies uh but thank you for sharing it with the world number two there's an actual fantastic bond game right now called 007 first light which has a young bond i think that'd be really good it's on playstation 5 it's excellent uh i think don from russia with love and i have a question for you pierce what is your favorite bond movie who's your favorite bond.

1:03:49Piers Morgan:Actually, my favourite Bond was always... Well, Roger Moore was brilliant, not least, because actually I looked a bit like him when I was young. But my favourite Bond... I think Sean Connery was the greatest Bond ever. And I think that we should get back to the Sean Connery version of James Bond and stop worrying about making him vulnerable and weepy and not allowed to date women or smoke or drink because some advertiser somewhere is going to freak out. because they're still trapped in a woke world. I've got to leave it there. Anyway, it looks like I'm going to be bombed. I did once pitch my...

1:04:28Piers Morgan:My favourite movie actually would be... Funny enough, you know the one that is rising in all the ranks as the greatest ever is on Her Majesty's Secret Service. He starred George Lazenby. George Lazenby, who only made one movie, and I met him here in Los Angeles, actually, in a cricket match because he's Australian. And we had a great chat, and he was very aware that he made one movie and it's become more and more popular. I think it now ranks number one amongst many Bond fans. So I would say on Imagine the Secret Service, my favourite Bond is Sean Connery. I like the idea, which I'm going to pitch to Barbara Broccoli after this, of me being the new Bond, Tyrus being the Bond villain.

1:05:09Piers Morgan:I can't think of anyone better cast than Tyrus. And Tyrus, it ends with me killing it. On that bombshell... We need to see a picture. Why not? We should have a British woman from Senegal play James Bond since it doesn't matter since they're all British. Yes, thank you, Elijah. We appreciate your thoughts. We appreciate your thoughts. Thank you all very much. Always a pleasure, Pierce. The perfect lunch combo. That first bite of your favorite sub, followed by ice-cold Pepsi. Add a couple of friends, and now that's next level. Suddenly, the laughs get louder, the stories keep flowing, and the food tastes better because Pepsi brings out more flavor, more fun, and more of the moment.

1:05:52Food deserves Pepsi. Grab a Pepsi Zero Sugar today.

1:05:56Piers Morgan:For Vintes is a fan of Joseph Stalin. Hassan Piker has at the very least a nuanced take on Chairman Mao. Young American voters are turning in droves to charismatic socialists who may yet shape the next presidential race. Whether this is a terrifying result of youthful ignorance and bad education or a justified reaction to a failing status quo probably depends on your age. Recent polling showed that more Gen Z Americans feel good about socialism than capitalism. The question is, can we blame them? Wages are flat, owning a home is out of reach, wealth is hoarded by tech barons who are working on replacing them all with bots, and the anti-war president is stuck in a protracted war.

1:06:35Piers Morgan:If all of those positions were reversed, would America's most popular left-wing streamer be talking up Chairman Mao? Well, joining us with his view is America's most popular right-wing streamer, the historian and author Victor Davis Hanson. Victor, welcome back to Uncensored. Thank you. Well, what is going on when people like Hassan Paikah are getting glowing features in Rolling Stone magazine? because so many young people are gravitating to somebody who has talked in not entirely unglowing terms about Chairman Mao, to many people's eyes, the biggest butcher in modern history, and also talked about America deserving what happened on 9-11.

1:07:23Well, we're seeing a phenomenon. The ethnic breakdown of the democratic socialists of America is 85 % white and urban and mostly degreed. So what we're seeing, at least as the leadership in this one category, which is about half of the movement, are people who are from the middle and upper middle class who got degrees, but they're not marketable degrees. They're in the social sciences or DASH studies. They live in very expensive urban corridors. They rub shoulders with very wealthy people. They're very glib, and they feel that they should have a house and they should have a lifestyle that they see other people enjoying.

1:08:06And they don't look critically and say, well, what's going on? I should say that the home ownership rate has not gone down. It's been traditionally between 63 % and 68 % over 100 years, and it's 65 % right now. So what we're talking about is a group that's very angry in Denver, Los Angeles, Chicago, Washington, Boston. And then we have another phenomenon, and that is the Ilian Omar, Rashida Tlaib, Chevalier, Mandami, Hassan Piker. I could go on and on. Kiros. These are first or second generation immigrants from mostly failed states. and they come over here and all of the enticements in that urban environment out of the university and the urban are on the left.

1:08:55So if you identify as dissatisfied, DEI, but they're not in the same category for the most part. Ilya Omar just filed, maybe she's, I don't know what she'll do next time, a$30 million financial statement. Mondami comes from the 1 % in Uganda that controls 65 % of the national wealth of Uganda. Hasan Piker is from a multi-millionaire family, drives a Porsche and he lives in a very$2.7 million Hollywood, I could go on, but this is a top down, not a bottom up movement. And the proof of the pudding, we'll see if this message, and they get the picture now, they are trying to disguise what they've said in the past, we saw that with AOC, we saw that with Hong, they're trying to say, We really didn't mean that.

1:09:46That was woke one because they haven't been able so far to win a general election in a statewide race. They're they're very successful in little enclaves of congressional districts in blue states and blue cities. But the proof of the pudding will be Tallarico, Saeed and others in a purple or blue or red state. and then that's what they're worried about because their messages and their social media history will offend people and so now they're trying to spin as quickly as possible to disown some of the more radical things that got them where they are.

1:10:25Piers Morgan:Notwithstanding everything you said do you understand why young people are gravitating to these guys because I look at someone I THINK THE HOME IS GOING TO I LOOK AT THE HOME, LOOK AT MANDANI, VERY GOOD COMMUNICATORS, VERY CHARISMATIC, THEY TALK A GREAT GAME. AND A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE, THINKING ABOUT THE HOMEOWNERSHIP, FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT I HEARD TODAY ACTUALLY IS THAT I THINK THE AVERAGE AGE NOW OF PEOPLE GETTING THEIR FIRST HOME HAS MOVED UP TO 41. So it may well be the overall ownership is not really changed. But the ability of young people to get on that housing ladder, we've seen exactly the same thing in the UK.

1:11:04Piers Morgan:It's become prohibitively expensive for young people to get on that first rung when they're younger. And that has been a social change. Why is that? It's not just the economy in generic terms. It's$1.8 trillion in aggregate student debt. This week I have talked to one Hispanic man that was 28 years old who was an electrician who worked with me on my pump. I live on a farm. Last week I talked to a Hispanic man, about 32, who was an electrician. They both own homes. They're very happy. Today a person's coming and fixing gutters. Hispanic. I live in a Hispanic community. None of them are socialists.

1:11:44They all own homes. But if you want, none of them would own homes if they had gone and got a sociology or psychology degree and racked up$250 ,000 of debt and said they just had to be where the action is in San Francisco or Los Angeles or San Diego. They wouldn't, they would be what you're talking about. But that is not the nationwide phenomenon. And they know, they know that. And so they're adjusting that message. They're not going to run, trust me, they are not going to run on a statewide race by calling for the abolition of the borders, the Pentagon, the police, the presidency, the Senate. They're not going to do that.

1:12:23They're going to say that they're for the working people. But why are houses also expensive? They're also expensive because the average home compared to 50 years ago is about 500 square feet larger. It's much better built. It has much more accoutrements in it. And there's a lot more regulations. And where I work at Stanford University, in the surrounding area, there's 100 square miles of what we would call empty space. But the people who have homes and they're on the left have so regulated that with not-in-my-backyard environmentalism. I wrote an article about 10 years ago and said, I think we should have high-density housing along the 280 corridor.

1:13:05We have some rail links we can miss, and we have about 50 square miles of empty land. We have the water. That column earned me the most hatred that I've ever written in 50 years. People wrote and said, you should be ashamed of yourself. I have a polo field in my backyard, or I need my three acres, or I will kill anybody who wants to take the deer grazing on my backyard. These were all very affluent people. And so the regulation, many of it environmentally driven, has driven up the price of houses. But it's not, there's still, the majority of people still in this country own a home. And they don't, that's not true, as you point out.

1:13:50It's not true in the places where the socialists are winning. But that's, those are unique circumstances. And many of them are self-created. And what are they going to do? What is their solution to it? Their solution is, what, to have subsidized rent? are that's not going to get people to build more rent control past laws that squatters can be protected they've done that in santa cruz here in california they don't have solutions they don't go to the private sector and say we will give you incentives if you build homes in the 150 to 500 thousand dollar range maybe a thousand to 1500 square feet but they're not doing that they're They're not doing that because their donor class doesn't want them to do that.

1:14:34Because the donor class doesn't want mass scale affordable housing. That's not what they want. They want something like Europe. High rises with no one with an automobile and mass transit on the subway.

1:14:52Piers Morgan:Let's go back to Chairman Mao for a moment. purely because the comments from Hassan Paikar have been doing the rounds again in light of his rising profile. This is what he actually said about Mao. Mao Zedong is one of the great leaders of this world, okay? A man who changed the entire universe, the entire planet.

1:15:24Okay. For real, for real, yes. I mean, there was a lot of fucking excesses, let's be real, but the People's Republic of China would not exist without Mao Zedong. Well, I mean, to dismiss Chairman Mao's negatives

1:15:41Piers Morgan:as there were a lot of fucking excesses seems to be the understatement of the millennium. What is your response to what you said? Well, I mean, the Black Book of Communism listed him as the greatest mass murderer in history, 60 to 70 million people. He either had executed or starved. And the Chinese government, trust me, is where it is today because it absolutely rejected 100 % of the Mao peasant self-autonomous economy, which was crazy. People were making pot iron in their little homes and trying to be self-sufficient. It didn't work. and once they liberalized the economy and westernized the economy to a certain extent, that's where the prosperity came.

1:16:29We've come a long way, Piers. If you remember during the Obama administration, Nita Dunn was the communications director, and she said at one point that her hero in history was Mao Zedong. And the outcry, not just from the conservative side, but from the Democratic side, was that she had to resign and step down. But that same party now will have an unabashed admirer of Mao campaign. And the people, I think it's a fair thing to say if you were a major candidate in a blue state and you had to pick between Hasan Piker and Chuck Schumer, the majority probably would pick Hasan Piker. Even though he said things like 9-11 was justified.

1:17:11And he said a lot of things that I would interpret as abjectly anti-Semitic. Semitic. He said he didn't think anybody who supported Israel could be or should be president, etc., etc. But nobody, the media also hasn't... I want to bring in... Well, just very quickly, the media really hasn't discussed the history of socialist revolutions, the 1848 revolution, earlier the Jacobin revolution, the Bolshevik revolution. The people who organized those had minority support, and they were from the upper middle and even wealthy classes. And that's exactly what we're seeing today, that we have a lot of big donors.

1:17:52We have Mondami, who was, as I said, 1%, his parents were PhDs. And we have Ro Khanna now thinks he's a neo-socialist. He's worth$200 million. His wife drives a Range Rover. I mentioned Hasan Piker. So this is a top-down elite group of people, and I don't think they're going to have any residents when they get out and outside of their enclaves. But we'll see. It depends a lot about how the Republicans handle it, and we'll see.

1:18:25Piers Morgan:Well, I want to bring another guest now to join this debate. Joining us now to help explain where Piker's views may have come from is Professor Mobogow. He's a neo-Maoist historian and author. Welcome to Uncensored, Professor Gao. We just heard Victor Davis Hanson, one of America's foremost historians, condemning Mao. Explain to my audience why you think that Mao has been unfairly assessed by history. Thank you for having me. Yes, perhaps, first of all, I might ask Mr. Hanson, have you been to China? No. No. You're not a historian of China. Have you been to Greece? No, no, no, we're not talking about Greece.

1:19:15No, we're talking about Western civilization. No, no, no, I'm talking about Mao. I'm not talking about Mao. Well, we're talking about both. I don't think you have the qualification to talk about Mao and China. I don't think I would be given a visa. Because you're not a historian of China. I don't think I would be given a visa. I have not been to China. Have you been to the moon? Having said that, can you talk about astronomy if you haven't been to the moon? You're absurd. You're not talking sense. But anyway, let me start answering Piers Morgan's question. Why do I think Mao is a great leader of China and changed China?

1:20:02And the Chinese people think that as well. And this is interesting because this is the 50th anniversary of the death of Mao. And if you look at how the Chinese think, both inside the Chinese Communist Party and outside and ordinary people, and the anecdotal evidence plus comprehensive research, rigorous research demonstrates that Mao is the founder of the People's Republic of China, and without him there would not be a success of the 1949 Chinese Revolution. And China is as it is today, is due to largely his leadership. so now you're talking about i mean pierce morgan mentioned this which is a cliche that mar was the greatest butcher uh in the world like stalin and hitler this is a cliche is a total cliche i don't think i don't know why you're still repeating it no it's not it's not he was responsible he was responsible

1:21:19Piers Morgan:Mao was responsible for the deaths of up to 80 million people no it's not I mean it's not look let me tell you this the great leap forward you are talking about from 1958 to 1961 was a failure there was a famine I myself admit that in my writings in my talk okay but But the exact number of the famine told is still very controversial. There's no exact figure. If you are anti-communist, anti-China, you'd like to have as high a number as possible. If you are sympathetic with... Well, let me finish. Let me finish. Because you haven't been talking for so long. I don't know how to make sense of you anyway.

1:22:09Let me finish. English. If you are sympathetic with the Chinese people, with the Chinese Revolution, then you don't agree with that number. For instance, one estimate of the fundamental is a linear estimate. So they take the death rate and the birth rate of 1957. And then they say in 1962, after the Great Report, China should have such and such a population. But that is very possible, I mean it's highly likely, the so-called people who died of starvation were not even born. Because during famine, when the people are hungry, you don't have babies as many as usually

1:23:01Piers Morgan:do all right let me bring all right let me let me bring vector to let me ask vector to respond to that i i i do agree with you that mal is the is the reason that you have your government today and that's why you have no free elections you have no bill of rights you treat the wagers as third-class citizens you monitor people who come into your country you surveil them without civil liberties you and when you're on the international scene you're now the international pariah You manipulate monetary markets. You infringe on patent and copyright laws. You don't respect trademarks. If your country is so robust, why do you have 300 ,000 students here and we have 10 ,000 in your country?

1:23:49Do you want me to answer that? Yeah, I do. Okay. You know, the recent survey, not by the Chinese, but Western, the pure survey, okay? The people who have a favorable view of China, the first time has overtaken the United States. You know, the trouble is people like you are sitting like a frog sitting at the bottom of a whale. You don't know what outside the world is. For a lot of people outside of America, America under the leadership of Trump is a laughingstock. You think you are great, but we don't think so. Now, okay. Can I ask you a question? Why did 25 of the 30 Latin American countries that have free elections have just voted out pro-Chinese and communist governments and have elected pro-American and pro-Western countries, whether it's Colombia, it's Chile, it's Argentina, I could go on.

1:24:49But China is a pariah now in Latin America. Even Panama wants it out. Well, you know what Trump is? You went to Venezuela, you kidnapped the president of the country. That's one country. You invaded how many countries did you invade? None. None. The people of Venezuela don't want him. They don't want China. Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, and now Iran. And those countries are all autonomous now. How about Tibet? What's the status of Tibet? You'd absorb that, and it's not even a free country. Why don't you go to Tibet and ask the people what do they think? Is there war there? Are they being killed?

1:25:39If they said what they thought, I think they would be killed. Of course they would say what they say. thing you have to go and talk to them why don't you just have a free election why not just say we're going to have a free election that's a question i mean one person one vote election is a western tradition that is not has not been adopted by china that is true and i personally like that one person one vote although i don't think it works very well but still it's better you told the chinese government that have you written that and show the timers government that when you're living in china well of course what would happen yeah you have never read my uh my works have you are you living now in china no i'm not i go back to you know why is that why is that why is that because my family is here uh because if you were to go to china and you would write a long critique of the Chinese Communist Party and call for free elections.

1:26:44No, I don't talk about it. I don't think you would be watched. You would be surveilled. You say you know so much about China and you're deliberately trying to masquerade what you know about China. No, you're making all the accusations without any evidence, without any support. Everybody I know in America, and I know several Chinese scholars, if they criticize China, They have a very hard time going to China and expressing those views. That's a fact. The fact is now if you criticize the United States of America, it's hard to go there these days. You know that, don't you? What's that? I know what?

1:27:21If you criticize the United States of America, it's hard to go there. Everybody criticizes the United States. No, no, they don't. You don't. They do it. I do all the time. No, what did you do? What did you do? I was just criticizing the student loan program. You're a classical scholar. You have no qualification in commentating contemporary China. No, not at all. None. I read. I'm really disappointed that you are invited on this panel for this purpose. I've written extensively on the history of consensual governments worldwide. You should read the other Greeks. It's a 250 ,000-word discussion of the origins of consensual government.

1:28:07Yeah, I know that. I've looked into that. I know that. You're a classic studies scholar. I know that. But we're talking about China. We're going to talk about consensual China. I just ask you, I can describe the mood that I've never seen yet.

1:28:20Piers Morgan:I think that's a very good point. Sadly, we have to wrap this. It's a fascinating conversation. But I do think that Victor raises a very good point, which is you don't have to go to the moon to comment about the moon landings or about lunar exploration. I think the argument, when people say, well, you haven't been there, you can't talk about it. It doesn't mean you can't study history and understand the brutality of Mao or how many millions of Chinese peasants in particular suffered and died on his watch. It makes him statistically the biggest monster of modern times. and that includes Hitler and Stalin and others.

1:28:59Piers Morgan:Anyway, we're going to leave the debate there. I appreciate you both coming on. Thank you very much. But you're wrong. You're making all the wrong statements without any evidence. Well, you say they're wrong. I say they're right. Yes, of course they're right. You need evidence. We can agree to disagree. You can't just make a claim. You know what? We're having this debate in America, which is a free democratic society, and we can agree to disagree. Of course we can agree to disagree. But you can't just make claims without evidence because you haven't studied either. I have actually studied Mao.

1:29:38Piers Morgan:I studied it when I was at school. So I'm very cognizant of what Mao did and your attempt to paper over the monstrosities of Mao is pretty shameful, actually. The idea that somehow all these numbers are wrong and it was massively over-exaggerated and he wasn't such a bad guy. And, you know, thank... It's all bullshit. It's all anti-communist propaganda. It's all anti-communist propaganda. And you are brainwashed. Yeah, I'm not... Listen, I'm not brainwashed, but I'm not a massive fan of communism. That's for sure, yeah. And your position... Your position, your stand dictates your point of view of China.

1:30:22and you take, because of that, you would accept anything that is bad about China. You wouldn't accept things that is good about China. Not at all. I actually went to China.

1:30:32Piers Morgan:Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. I went to China. Unlike Victor, I have been to China. I went and spent three weeks in Shanghai about 12, 13 years ago. I did a documentary about Shanghai and I found it to be an extremely dynamic and interesting place. I don't intrinsically have a hatred of all things Chinese. I can appreciate how successful China's been in many different ways. And I met a lot of Chinese people whose company I thoroughly enjoyed. I'm not anti-Chinese. But when you try and attempt to downplay the enormity of Mao's crimes and the appalling impact he had on tens of millions of particularly Chinese peasants, I'm afraid you lose me with the argument.

1:31:17Piers Morgan:But look, we are going to have to leave it there. I do appreciate you coming on. And you know what? We can do this again. We can have a longer debate about China another time. I'd love to do that. And we'll get... I'd love to do that. OK, well then, consider yourself booked for another debate. But thank you to both you and Victor. I appreciate it. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. and in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain.

1:31:52Piers Morgan:And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.