In short
World Cup Uncensored discussion of “virtue signalling” in refereeing, England’s anthem choices, hydration breaks in Qatar, leaked England team news, and Jordan Henderson’s role; plus early tournament observations and England/Croatia preview.
Guests
John Terry (former England captain and Chelsea defender; later pundit; discusses being stripped of England captaincy and FA treatment) and Piers Morgan (media personality; co-host; argues refereeing/UEFA/FIFA issues are performative).
Key claims
Hydration breaks are largely monetised for US TV commercials and disrupt momentum; players should hydrate via prep rather than rely on breaks. England players’ non-singing of the anthem is “off,” though individuals still have a right to choose; Tuchel (German) shouldn’t be expected to sing. England press leaks team selection, harming England’s advantage. Henderson is selected for late-game experience, bravery on the ball, and camp culture; FA’s PR about him is odd but he’s not a “dickhead.” UEFA’s criticism of tournament size is “mind your business.”
Notable examples
Wayne Rooney’s anthem change after becoming captain; named non-singers Madiwaki, Spence, Rashford. Hydration-break momentum examples: Qatar vs Swiss. Leaked England XI mentions: Gordon over Rashford; Gehi not starting; Stones/Gehi/Konza; Rodgers over Bellingham. Henderson late-game “safe sideways” passing. Scotland fan noise at Fenway Park; Chelsea selling Marc Cucurella to Real Madrid for £52m.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOWorld Cup Conditions and Hydration Breaks
0:45 to 3:02
Discussion about the impact of heat and hydration breaks in the World Cup.
“And of course, that is in a way a tribute to yourself.”
Monetization vs. Player Welfare
3:02 to 5:30
Exploring the balance between commercial interests and player health during games.
“But what do you make of these unprecedented hydration breaks?”
National Anthems and Player Responsibility
5:30 to 8:04
Debate about the significance of singing national anthems and player choices.
“Would you want it, if you were playing now in this World Cup with this heat, would you want a rehydration break?”
Cultural Differences in Anthem Significance
8:04 to 11:40
Comparing how different cultures view national anthems, especially in sports.
“And also like being in that environment before the game, singing it, with all the stadiums singing it as well.”
World Cup Team Performances
11:40 to 14:00
Analyzing team performances in the early World Cup matches and standout players.
“So someone said to me, we were debating this earlier when we were doing a little pre-briefing for the show and they were like, well, should Tuchel sing it then?”
World Cup Insights and Expectations
14:00 to 16:00
Discussion on the dynamics of the World Cup, team performances, and the impact of smaller nations.
“get an opportunity to come and play in the World Cup.”
England's Team Selection Concerns
16:00 to 19:20
Exploration of leaked team selections and their potential impact on England's performance.
“I don't think the broadcasters are going to make a big bag of dough watching Cape Verde playing Saudi Arabia.”
The Role of Experience in the Squad
19:20 to 23:20
Debate on the importance of experienced players like Jordan Henderson in the context of the World Cup.
“Isn't that you have responsibility upon the players to pack it in and keep it amongst themselves?”
Critique of Selection Decisions
23:20 to 27:30
Discussion on the rationale behind player selections and the balance between experience and current form.
“There's other players in this group and I go, I'm not sure whether they do that.”
Concluding Thoughts on Squad Strategy
27:30 to 28:00
Final reflections on the strategy of the England squad and management ahead of the tournament.
“I do get that argument of the experience and all the rest of it.”
Show all 21 chapters
Debate on England's Elite Players
28:00 to 29:19
A lively discussion on the selection of players for the England football team.
“It's a general view of the football population, of the people.”
John Terry's YouTube Diaries and England's Environment
29:20 to 31:01
John Terry discusses his YouTube channel and the emotional environment of the England squad.
“you've launched the John Terry Diaries and you talk a lot about the ups and downs of England's journey.”
Resentment Towards England's Football Association
31:02 to 32:35
Terry shares his personal experiences of resentment towards the FA and lack of support.
“I can only really talk about my own experiences.”
Supporting Scotland in the World Cup
32:36 to 34:35
Discussion on the feelings towards the Scotland team in the World Cup and national identity.
“a period under Southgate where most people assumed that the kind of thing that happened to you is no longer happening.”
The Legacy of the 'Full Kit Wanker'
34:36 to 36:19
A humorous take on the term 'full kit wanker' and its association with John Terry.
“I could care as much about Scotland winning as I could care about Norway, right?”
Chelsea's Selling of Marc Cucurella
36:20 to 37:40
Discussion on Chelsea's decision to sell Marc Cucurella and its implications for the team.
“I might even appear on one of these shows.”
The Significance of Sport in Society
37:41 to 40:56
Exploration of how sport unifies people beyond biases and societal divides.
“In full kit, if you'd like to wear it as well.”
Zlatan Ibrahimovic's Media Persona
40:57 to 42:00
A discussion about Zlatan's character and potential in the media landscape.
“The one thing about that celebration in North London was, for everyone that was there, none of it mattered.”
Media Dynamics in Football
42:00 to 47:44
Explore the media coverage and its implications for football during the World Cup.
“and to take the stances that he takes, I find interesting.”
Controversy Over Referee's Entry Denial
47:44 to 50:46
Discuss the implications of Omar Atom's denied entry to the US and its broader context.
“And there was a bit of a blow-up on social media.”
Controversy Over Referee's Entry Denial
51:55 to 52:18
Discuss the implications of Omar Atom's denied entry to the US and its broader context.
“It's cosy season and nothing compares to wrapping yourself in a minky couture blanket.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00John, if you were in the dressing room, would you expect them or would you demand of them that they sing their national anthem? Being in that environment before the game's singing it, fucking hell, does not get the juices flowing. Do you see, in relation to England's team selection, a lot of stuff's been leaked. I think we've always been at a disadvantage in these tournaments because it seems the English press always get hold of it. And what amazes me that they go and print it or they leak it and it's kind of out there for everyone in the world to see. I've seen UEFA have a swipe at the idea that this tournament is too big and the teams who are in it are not on the level.
0:31I think they should mind their business. They've been virtue signaling their way through the refereeing situation. If he was a dickhead, would he get picked?
0:38Piers Morgan:Good point. Well, that's actually a good point. He's not a dickhead. James Corden was a toolkit wanker. And of course, that is in a way a tribute to yourself. But if he's going to do it, at least get the shin pads and the boots on and the armband and go for it. Exactly! I'm Piers Morgan. And I'm Simon Jordan. And welcome to World Cup Uncensored. Well, it's proving very popular. We had over 400 ,000 people watching the first episode of World Cup Uncensored. Obviously, because of all these things, most of them were enraged about something. But they generally rather enjoyed it. We've got John Terry joining us, as he did for the first one.
1:16Piers Morgan:JT, how are you? Hi, guys. Very well. Only 15 minutes late this week, guys. Nice setting, John. Someone was all swanning it around in South Africa. We're actually putting a shift in... Actually, we're both in New York. I'm actually sitting next to Simon here. So, for the purposes of production, we're looking down different cameras, but we are sitting next to each other. And so far, it's been remarkably civilised in here, although he has complained about the heat. And that brings me, actually, to the first question for you, JT, because the big theme so far, I think, of this World Cup have been the conditions, the heat, but also the excuse being used by the authorities of the heat, where even when you have a covered stadium with air conditioning and all the stuff you would normally have anywhere in the world, they're still having these breaks, the hydration breaks, which many people think are now having a direct impact on the integrity, if you like, of the normal play.
2:18Piers Morgan:What do you make of it? Yeah, Piers, I would have to agree, actually. watching the games the last couple of nights, I think it's taken the momentum out of it as well. There's been times when I'm going, okay, Qatar are back on top here, and then all of a sudden it's a water break and it kind of kills the momentum, and then the Swiss kind of get back on top. So I really don't like it. It seems like it's just monetised, isn't it? It's very American, but it's certainly not us. And also, we've done all right for the last 100 years without these water breaks as well, haven't we? Well, that's the point.
2:47Piers Morgan:I mean, Simon, you know, we're both in New York. It's pretty hot here. You know, we were talking about it earlier. You walk around, it is hot. So these conditions are definitely going to have an impact, I think, particularly on teams like England who are not used to the heat, although ironically this weekend in England it will be this hot. But what do you make of these unprecedented hydration breaks? Many people think it's giving the bigger teams in the tournament an unfair advantage. I would imagine that you have to prepare properly, knowing that you've got this situation inside games. Coaches have got to be professional about it.
3:18The interesting thing for me is, and you've touched upon it, John, which is the monetisation, because if you're playing in Dallas, as the Dutch and the Japanese were last night, there's no need for a break after 22 minutes because it's a climate-cooled controlled environment. The other side of the argument is, if you talk about sporting integrity, which Piers just brought up, if one set of games have hydration breaks in it because the climate dictates it needs it, and another doesn't, then all of a sudden you're into a debate about sporting integrity of the framework of a game because teams are experiencing different dynamics.
3:49So whilst I don't like it, and I think sometimes you footballers are a bunch of fannies about what you do and don't know, or do and don't need, there probably is more benefit in having it than not having it. And we know, and it appears you will know, given the American networks, this is as much about the opportunity to go to a commercial break as it is about the wellbeing of the sports stars.
4:09Piers Morgan:Well, I think that's the crucial thing here, is that there is a commercial imperative, clearly, that is at play here, where the American networks want to have their commercials, their advertising. It's generating huge amounts of cash. The audiences have already been pretty good for the World Cup here. And that's despite massive sporting events like the New York Knicks finally winning the NBA finals, the Stanley Cup finals and so on. Despite that, the World Cup is off and running here. But I think that is what's driving this. And John, again, from a player's perspective, how do you feel about that?
4:46But for me, I was actually quite intrigued to see what the managers are going to do in these kind of three-minute breaks. I was quite intrigued thinking that the cameras would pan onto the players. There'd be loads of tactical bits. And you get a little insight into what information the managers may be giving to the players. But we're not seeing that at all. It's just going to these adverts that, like I said, it's just very American. It's how they do things. It's how they do baseball, basketball, all of their events. So it was probably expected, wasn't it? But, John, as a player welfare thing, which we now disappear on our backsides on a regular daily basis, but I have to listen to Martin Keogh and talk about player welfare one more time, I think I'll shoot myself in the face.
5:20But is there a necessity? Is there a necessity? Is it an advantage to the players in these climates to have these rehydration breaks? Put aside the monetisation argument and look at the wellbeing of the players to be able to form at a high level. Would you want it, if you were playing now in this World Cup with this heat, would you want a rehydration break? To be honest, Simon, I wouldn't actually. I'm probably a little bit more old school. I wouldn't. I think it's down to the players to do your prep, take on the hydration before. And also there is stoppages within the game as well, whether it goes out for a throw-in, a corner, or a little injury or something like that, where you're enabled to then go and take a little drink or grab the water bottle off the physio or whatever that may be.
6:00So I think there's opportunities within the game early on anyway.
6:03Piers Morgan:Let me... No, I'm not happy with that one. A slight tech thing. Yeah, no, no, it's not that, John. I'm getting... It's fine when you talk, but when Simon talks, I'm getting his words repeated back. So if the tech guys, if there's a way to fix that, it would be useful. It'll help with your education, Peter. You'll get it twice. I've got the worst-case scenario imaginable... You'll get it twice. ..is that I'm hearing Simon Jordan twice. We're moving him on from being a fanboy into some actual knowledge, John. Well, I'll tell you what I want to talk about also, John, and it's this. National anthems.
6:35Piers Morgan:So I've got an interesting story about this because Wayne Rooney never used to sing the English national anthem. He said it was a... I had dinner with him in L.A. in the mid-2000s and we had a great night and it was just me, him and our wives and I said to him, why don't you sing the national anthem? And he said, it's a lot of... You know, in Liverpool, we don't really do that so much. And he felt like he was very touchy about it. And I said, look, he was about to become England captain. I said, if you're going to be England captain, You've got to sing the national anthem. So we had a really quite spirited debate about it.
7:11Piers Morgan:Anyway, he then did start to sing the national anthem. And as captain, he always sang the anthem. I just noticed, because people mentioned this on social media, a few of the England players so far have not been singing it. And let me just say from the start, I think it's absolutely their right to sing it or not sing it. No one knows why they don't want to sing it, and they're entitled to. Madiwaki, Spence and Rashford apparently didn't sing it against New Zealand and Costa Rica when it was played. A, does it matter? And B, I remember you belting it out when you were an England player and captain.
7:48Piers Morgan:I, as a fan, think it does matter. What do you feel about this? I think it matters 100%. I think from a player's perspective and the supporters watching at home, I remember growing up with Tony Adams, Stuart Pearce, these guys with the veins in their neck, kind of busting out live on TV. And then I felt as England captain, I had a duty to the country that the people watching, I used to love it going down the line and seeing my teammates or the England players of previous generations to me singing the national anthem. I think it's very patriotic. And also like being in that environment before the game, singing it, with all the stadiums singing it as well.
8:25Fucking hell, does NARF get the juices flowing as well?
8:29Piers Morgan:Well, that's the thing. I mean, I remember you doing it. I remember Stuart Pearce streaking it. And Simon Jordan, we haven't been in the players' shoes, obviously, so it's hard to think. But I just can't help but think if they all... Whenever I see everyone do it, I love that. And conversely, when I see some players not do it, it always feels a little bit off to me. Well, it's curious to understand why they wouldn't want to do it because whilst neither one of us have played, we all respect the value of our country and the opportunity that these kids are getting to play. So I would have thought that it should be mandatory.
9:00We live in a day and age where you have to consider everyone's feelings, but when you're playing for your country, you should have, I think, an inherent obligation to feel the weight of expectation. John, if you were in the dressing room, and I know it's a difficult question to address now, given that you're not playing in this generation now, but you had players as the captain. Would you expect them or would you demand of them that they sing their national anthem because you felt it was inherently part of their responsibility and also part of raising the occasion? I wouldn't expect them. I'm with Piers on this one.
9:31I think they've got their own right to choose whether they do it. And actually had a conversation with a couple of the younger players when they first come into the set-up. And actually they're shy and they're nervous going into that. You know, their full focus is on the game and stuff like that. So when that camera goes along the line, like you're singing to millions and millions of people with probably not the best voice either. But I'm very old school, like I said, I'm very patriotic. And I think it's great to see. But I think individuals have a choice, I think, on this one.
9:59Piers Morgan:It's interesting watching any sport in America, how big the anthem is in the United States. You know, I remember being at CNN once with Wolf Blitzer, who's one of the most famous, iconic anchor men in American cable news history. And we couldn't stand up for the anthem at a political event because we were strapped into our chairs with all our stuff. And it was actually a really, like, uncomfortable moment. I remember people around us getting very angry with us that we weren't standing for the anthem, even though it obviously wasn't my anthem. But it's very indicative of how passionate Americans feel about that.
10:40Piers Morgan:It's not quite the same in the UK. It tends to be for the big England games. I'm sure the big crowd here for our games here will belt it out. But it's not quite as endemically, intrinsically part of the psyche, I don't think, as it is for America. Have you felt that, John? Yeah, slightly. I think the Americans do it probably as good as anybody. I think they're very passionate and very patriotic. And I just think the national anthem itself is very kind of catchy as well. So from other nations, I think you look at them and understand how passionate they are with their military and all of that. And I think there's a lot of that behind it.
11:17I think, and again, we've grown up on players of our generations kind of belting the national anthem out. and over the last probably 10, 15 years, we've seen that kind of filter out. So, listen, I would love to see it. I'd love to go along the whole line and to see every single England player before the game's belt when it out. Will it happen? Will the manager enforce that? I'm not sure.
11:39Piers Morgan:Well, that raises an interesting point because our manager's German, right? So someone said to me, we were debating this earlier when we were doing a little pre-briefing for the show and they were like, well, should Tuchel sing it then? By your yardstick, if everyone connected with the England team should sing it, should the manager sing it, even if he's not English? To which I said, no, that would be ridiculous. You can't expect a German to sing the English national anthem. And I would feel the same about Ancelotti with the Brazilian national anthem. I mean, I'm not wrong, Simon. I mean, it would be absurd, wouldn't it, to all suddenly singing God Save the King?
12:11I mean, I think you and I would suggest that the fact that it's not seen as something that people might want to do... I put aside the argument that John has about the fear factor, because these are big boys that are used to playing in big games, most of them. And it speaks to perhaps a culture in our country that we aren't quite as pride-orientated, as motivated to be as patriotic as we should be. We spend a lot of time apologising for the things that our culture may or may not have done. A lot of times answering questions about the things that we haven't done as well as we could do, whilst probably having the most tolerant and sophisticated society in the Western world.
12:45So it might speak to that. But singing a national anthem and belting it out doesn't necessarily determine that you're going to have a team that overcomes results. So none of them sang, Piers, and we won the bloody World Cup. I'd live with it, right?
12:58Piers Morgan:You know what? That is completely true. And that brings me to England's first game tomorrow night, Croatia. John, looking at the game so far, the general sort of theme, I think, has been that America turned up and looked really impressive against a pretty good Panama side, particularly defensively. I thought they were terrific. Brazil didn't quite turn up and are looking a little bit underwhelming. Casemiro in particular yanked off quite early, looked like he struggled in midfield. Paraguay were crap, Piers. They were, yeah. I personally was drawn to Sweden, who I thought looked terrific yesterday, and particularly Izak playing with Jokeres.
13:42Piers Morgan:But what else has caught your eye, John, from the first few games? I think Morocco looked good for me. I have to say, I thought they were very organized. And again, I think there's so many weak teams in this World Cup, which I'm a fan of. I'm so open for different nations, different countries, get an opportunity to come and play in the World Cup. But that enables us to kind of, you see the Germany game, like to win and defeat them like that 7-1. Like, I'm not really a fan of these teams in the World Cup, but I think it gets the big teams. I think once the group stages are done, I think we're going to start seeing some really good football, some really good individuals come to life.
14:22And I think these are really good stepping stones because often when you start these World Cups, you want to get off to a good start. For Havertz and those, you want to get on the score sheet and bits like that and find your way in. Unfortunately for us, our first game is Croatia, which is probably our toughest game in the group. And also they're a really good side. So it's going to work backwards for us in terms of that. But I'm actually a fan of these smaller countries getting opportunities. is like you see Curacao and you see Guittar get their first goals at the world. And it's like, for me, it's great to see.
14:51But for the big teams coming in, I think it's a really good stepping stone coming in and finding your feet. And you guys might disagree because the football's not been great, I have to say. I've been disappointed overall.
15:04Piers Morgan:It's interesting. I mean, I've enjoyed some of the games. I don't disagree in totality that it's not been electrifying so far. On that point though, Simon, do you like watching Germany thrashing a team that is in its first World Cup and many people think shouldn't be there at all? Not really. I mean, I see the merits of expanding a World Cup, not just because it generates more revenue, but you sit in conversations. I had conversations with Wenger a couple of years ago about what the World Cup can and can't do and how it can broaden the opportunities for countries around the world, which then creates a conveyor belt of better talent, which then can find its way into clubs around the world.
15:38So it has some method to its madness. And you look at it and say, well, I see the merit of that. And on the other side of it, there's also an argument which says, when you come to the greatest show on earth, you should see possibly from the get-go the best teams playing. Now, there's an argument that could even be reduced from 32. But we are at 48 now. It is what it is. So I'm sort of sitting there going, well, I have no real interest. I'm going to learn nothing. I don't think the broadcasters are going to make a big bag of dough watching Cape Verde playing Saudi Arabia. But it is what it is. So I've seen UEFA have a swipe at the idea that this tournament is too big and the teams that are in it are not of a level.
16:15I think they should mind their business. They've been virtue-signing their way through the refereeing situation. Now they're jumping on the back of what FIFA are doing with the size of a tournament. I think it has good and bad piss. I think there's merit to be taken from more teams in it because it perhaps gives those societies, those countries an opportunity. But from a broadcasting quality point of view and watching the best versus the best, some of it can be a little bit, no, not really.
16:34Piers Morgan:And JT, in relation to England's team selection, a lot of stuff's been leaked, apparently leaked with authority to the newspapers back in the UK. And it would appear... I mean, A, I was going to ask you what you feel about that. Is that detrimental to the team if people get advanced knowledge of who's going to play? But in particular, the leaks appear to suggest that Gordon will get the nod over Rashford on the left, that Gahey may not start, that he'll go with Stones and Gonsa. And there's even a suggestion that Rodgers might start over Bellingham. Now, if those three things are true, what do you feel about that?
17:17I think we've always been at a disadvantage in these tournaments because it seems the English press always get hold of it. And what amazes me is that they go and print it or they leak it and it's kind of out there for everyone in the world to see. Surely, from an English perspective, we have to protect that a little bit. And naturally, you're going to get told that maybe you're in the starting lineup or you get a feel in the team shape the day before or two days before in training that you're in the kind of lineup. You have conversations with your partners or your agents and stuff like that. So I understand all that goes on.
17:47It just surprises me that from an English press point of view, it gets leaked because it must be a disadvantage as well. I like the fact that Stones is coming in. I think I've spoken about those three. Stones, Gehi and Konza. I think the three of them are at top level. So I'm happy with that one. Gordon and Rashford as well, I really like. I think they're both on a similar level. And Bellingham and Rodgers, I think there's a bit of a drop-off. I think Jude's a big star for us. So I'm hoping that one's wrong, to be honest, because I think it could be a big World Cup for him.
18:17Piers Morgan:It's also, it's a massive game, Simon. England have to start well because, again, talk about the media. There are some countries, Brazil, obviously the media get on their backs. But England in particular, I think, given how well we've performed in recent international tournaments, huge expectations. And Croatia is probably the toughest game of the three. And we've got to start well. Are you comfortable with where Tuchel's thinking in terms of selection? I'm comfortable with Thomas Tuchel. So that makes me comfortable with this. I feel like when we debate about Thomas Tuchel, and we were talking about whether Jordan Henderson should be in the team and whether this player was at picks, You can't, on one hand, advocate for the fact he's an elite manager, and then, on the other hand, before these decisions have been visited in some degree of success or failure, start to judge it.
19:02John, I want to take you back to the point you made about leaking information out to the press. Now, the press is going to do what the press does, but it can't necessarily not print something if a player has made, or people around a player, have made that information available. Isn't there some degree of responsibility upon the players, irrespective of whether they talk to their agent or they talk to their partners to make sure that they protect this kind of information because they're representing their country, they're representing a group of individuals that they're all playing alongside and with.
19:32Isn't that you have responsibility upon the players to pack it in and keep it amongst themselves? Yeah, I mean, I was always the same. I would have a conversation with my wife and that was it, to be honest. And wouldn't kind of even have a conversation with my agent and let him know that or people close to me just in case anything ever come up. I could always go, I've not spoken to anyone or told anyone about it. So, yeah, I think players have a level of responsibility for sure. But also, like, guys, you want, like, family members at games and stuff like that. Like, there'll be certain games where family's flying over for games and if you're not playing, they might kind of miss that one and other bits.
20:07So there's so much more to it than just kind of having a conversation, things getting lit. I think the press have a bigger responsibility than the players for me. No, I think, I mean, listen, I'll always go with bashing up journalists if I possibly can. But in real terms, you've got to understand that the journalist is going to do what it's like asking the scorpion and the frog, isn't it? But as far as the Croatian game is concerned, John, are you worried about this game? Because I don't think that actually, whilst momentum is a great thing, we've started tournaments off by often playing the weakest opposition first game out.
Read the full transcript
20:35So when we played in the last World Cup, it was either Iran or Panama straight out of the gate, wasn't it? And you'd get that under your belt. But not winning this game, not winning the first game against Croatian, which, by the way, I think we will, but not winning it shouldn't spread panic or shouldn't start a firestorm of, hang on a second, And what's happening here? Should it, really? No, it shouldn't. Simon, they're a really good team as well. They've got bundles of experience as well. Modric being the big one for them. Listen, I think we're going to win the game. But like you say, a draw is at the end of the world as well.
21:05Because, listen, I think the Ghana game is going to be a really tough game as well. But, listen, these are a really, really good side. And ideally, you want to get off to a good start. That's not always the case. Certainly wasn't when I played as well. And I think as a player, you come into it going, you'd actually take a draw in a tough game like this and kind of then move on to the next two where you look at those and go, yeah, we should go on and win those two and then top the group from there, really.
21:34Piers Morgan:Let me ask you about Jordan Henderson. We mentioned him a little earlier. The FA decided to front up Bellingham and Morgan Rodgers to talk about how important Henderson is to the camp. And that's been kind of ridiculed by some people. Roy Keane has previously famously questioned why Henderson is in the squad. What does he do, Keane said, this is a couple of years ago. Does he do card tricks? Does he have a sing song? Does he do quizzes in the evenings? And he got widely attacked for saying it, but there is a sense that Henderson is more there to be in the camp than to play a constructive role on the pitch.
22:12Piers Morgan:What do you think, John? I mean, do you see the big value of having him there? people saying, look, if he's not going to play and he's just there to hold hands and tell people what they want to hear, why didn't you take, you know, a Foden or a Palmer? First of all, I thought it was a bit weird for the FA to kind of put that out and put those two guys kind of on a podcast to talk about it. I don't think it's for them to talk about it, but it felt like the FA were kind of addressing something that everyone's been talking about. I've got Jordan Henderson's back on this 100%. and I don't know Jordan too well, but how I've come across him and what I see from him, he's a top, top player, by the way.
22:52Let's not forget that. Now, is Jordan going to start? No, he's not. But I feel he plays a big part in this World Cup for us. Late in games with the experience he's got, the training sessions, I spoke about it as well, and I was disappointed in Seucal's squad selection in not picking certain players, Maguire being one, Luke Shaw being another experienced player. You look at Stones coming in, no doubt, Stones plays the other night and he puts pressure on Tuchel because how well he plays and poses a doubt to the manager. And now possibly John Stones starts. There's other players in this group and I go, I'm not sure whether they do that.
23:28Jordan Henderson is 100 % that player for us. He's brave. He'll come on the last 15, 20 minutes. I think he's got a big, big role to play. And also, when you're a manager or when you're a chairman of a football club, You want people like this around your football club or in the England set-up. And above all of that, Piers, he's a top, top player.
23:48Piers Morgan:See, that's very interesting, I think, to hear from someone who's been right at the heart of England camps. I mean, Simon, it was interesting to me, as JT said there, the way they used Bellingham and Morgan Rodgers to kind of do a PR job on Henderson. That didn't sit well with me either. I was like, that's not their role. They shouldn't be doing that. Yeah, I mean, I listened to a lot of that and I felt the actual, the bigger, more challenging position for me was talking about the culture that they were referring to, about how they needed to be loved more and how they felt in this particular environment that they were being that, which seemed to be sort of juxtaposed to the culture that Gareth Southgate had created.
24:27When we talk about Jordan Henderson being brought into the side, and I take your argument, John, I mean, Adam Morton and Gibbs White might have a different view about their seasons in comparison to the Jordan Henderson season. Which other nation needs somebody in their dressing room to keep the players on side to try and win a tournament? You don't hear this about Argentina. You don't hear this about other sides that are playing to win the tournament. It seems to be a British trait that you guys need to be amused, you need to be entertained, you need to develop camaraderie amongst yourselves. And apparently Jordan Henderson is the water carrier for that.
24:58That doesn't feel like, to me, a selection that's based upon everybody is the best version of the best in class to try and win a tournament that's going to require all 26 players.
25:07Piers Morgan:Well, the question, I would put it simpler to you, having heard that very good counter-argument, John. If he was a dickhead, would he get picked? Good point. Well, that's actually a good point. He's not a dickhead. He's a really good player. But also, when I look at our midfield and the players that he's kind of competing for, within that midfield, it's Declan Rice, which he's not going to replace, Maynou and Anderson, potentially. but you're looking at those guys coming on late in the game where this is new to them. They haven't been here before. Jordan's done it at a top level for both Liverpool, for England over the years.
25:42And I will be so confident. If I see him come from the bench for the last 15, 20 minutes to see a game out, whether we're winning or to close a game as well, he can do both as well because he's going to be so brave on the ball where you look at there's a pass in the last five minutes. Do I play forward and risk that pass to Harry Kane and maybe give it away or do I go safe sideways? I'm not saying the other two midfielders do that, but Jordan's so brave on the ball. And listen, if you're Adam Walton, I think you can be really disappointed not going to this World Cup, because I would argue that he's been better than Jordan Henderson.
26:14But at the same time... That's my point. I'm not sure he can do what Jordan can do either late on in these games as well. So yes, he's been a better player and he's the future of England, but Jordan appears... Honestly, I'm so confident is going to be such a big player for us, an important player late on in games as this tournament goes on. And when you hear and listen to the players, they talk about the good bits. They talk about all the good bits. He drives his training sessions and all of that. That's what Jordan does. If you speak to the players and just ask these players just how good he is as a footballer, you will get a simple answer.
26:54But it seems to be this direction of, ah, he's a great lad and all that. Naturally, all the players are saying that. But if you sit there and ask the players It's just how good he is. I'm sure they dissect and tell you just how good this player is. Yeah, but there's a reason why he's playing at Brentford, with respect, John. So I'm not disrespecting Brentford, but you want your best... Listen...
27:12Piers Morgan:Well, you are disrespecting Brentford. I'm not in contact with the bigger clubs where the players are coming from. The elite players now are playing at the bigger clubs. So, listen, I hope you're right, because, you know, I don't know whether, you know, Jordan Henderson comes on and does the things that you think he will do, but I'll bow to your knowledge and we'll see. We'll see. It'll be very interesting. I do get that argument of the experience and all the rest of it. But in a way, I find myself slightly veering to you, son, which is for the World Cup every four years, you should be picking the absolute best players at the peak of their powers.
27:47Piers Morgan:And I'm not sure if I was picking that team. Also, Tuchel's not done that, though, has he? Tuchel's not done that coming into this squad. If that was the case, Maguire would be on the plane. Luke Shaw would be on the plane. Lewis Hall would be on the plane. They're not. So he's not picked the best players. So, again, you could argue that. That's subjective, John, isn't it? That's subjective. No, it's not, Simon. Honestly, it's not. In your view... No, it's not. It's a general view of the football population, of the people. Anyone who's watched Man United this year tells you that Harry Maguire has been better than Dan Byrne and stripped that back whether he's been better this year.
28:23He's a better footballer than Dan Byrne. I take that argument. So then, by definition, we sit here, both you and I, and concur with you, and Piers as well, I think, that Tuchel is an elite manager. So if he's an elite manager, looking at the World Cup through the prism of trying to win it, why would he make decisions like this then? I'm actually not sure. I said to you on episode one here that he's got 14 or 15 players that can actually start in this tournament. And other than that, I think there's players in and around it that he wants a good and happy camp where maybe you allude to what Jude had said recently of going, I wasn't too happy before, so he's got people in and around it that are maybe not going to be starters but they're going to be good players for the environment and maybe that's more important to him because our 14, 15 possible starters are probably strong enough anyway.
29:12Piers Morgan:John, I know you've got to go. I just wanted to mention before you do, your new YouTube channel, on your YouTube channel, you've launched the John Terry Diaries and you talk a lot about the ups and downs of England's journey. And he obviously twice was stripped to the captaincy for non-playing reasons and so on. Let's just take a little watch of a clip here. I don't know the word for it, actually. A little bit of a piece of meat for your country and kind of we use you as and when. Can I get that plane? She's like, no, there is no plane. It's made me go funny. Sorry. Did you have any resentment towards England and the FA for not allowing you?
29:49Piers Morgan:Yeah, massively. Hi, guys. I'm John Terry. And at last, this is my YouTube channel. and this is going to be My England Diaries.
30:05Piers Morgan:It's a really interesting watch and to listen to you being so candid there, John. But it came right at the moment where Jude Bellingham has talked about not feeling loved in the 2024 Euros. He said, I don't feel like the group connected as well as it could have for a number of reasons. Everyone's got to feel loved and feel a huge part of the team. And it's interesting, isn't it? We've just moved from the Jordan Henderson debate, where he's there because he's incredibly popular, great for team spirit, great guy for the sort of happy camp, if you like, which may well be Tuchel's thinking. But that clearly hasn't been the case.
30:40Piers Morgan:You know, you felt that you were a piece of meat, massively resented the way you were treated by FA and England. Jude Bellingham felt really unloved. What is it that's causing the England set-up to treat the top, top talent in that way, do you think? Well, first of all, it surprises me with Jude because when I look at Southgate and everything that he'd done, from what I read and what I heard from everyone that was in and around those camps, we're really impressed with what Gareth done and the environment that he created within that. So that surprises me, firstly. I can only really talk about my own experiences.
31:19I had a couple. The birth of my kids was one that I go into a bit more detail about, that the kind of FA promised me that if I'd kind of gone to the camp in Portugal, that they would have a plane waiting for me. And now there's probably people at home going, oh, how flashy is that? He wants his own plane to get back. But the birth of my kids was really important to me. And I made a conscious decision after speaking with the FA that that would be supplied for me. And then later down the line, I got assurances, you know, So, pre the court case, that I would be trusted. Whatever happened in the court of law, that the FA would follow suit.
31:55They didn't, that they went behind my back completely. And I think when you're at your football club, every single year of my Chelsea contract, I felt loved and supported by the owners, the supporters, and everyone around it. Whether I played bad or not, I got clapped and I got cheered week after week because I put in performances for that. And I feel with England, it's completely different. you're kind of used when you're needed and when you're not you're very quickly brushed to the side and it's us against them and they very much go with the public perception or certainly did back in my day.
32:29So I go into a little bit of detail around that and we'll be touching on a little bit more in the next few episodes.
32:35Piers Morgan:Yeah, it's interesting because Bellingham is talking about a period under Southgate where most people assumed that the kind of thing that happened to you is no longer happening. and that's why it was so interesting, I think, to see him say that. John, thank you very much. We're going to speak again on Thursday, by which time we'll have known what happened in the Croatia game. It is a massive game for England and I look forward to us dissecting it on Thursday. So thank you very much, John. We'll catch up with you then. Thanks, guys. Just before we go, can I get your thoughts on Scotland and where you guys sit in terms of supporting Scotland or seeing them do well at this World Cup?
33:16Piers Morgan:I'll tell you what I think about Scotland. The way they went down to Fenway Park in Boston. Well, I just think, let's start, the fan base is unbelievable. They were down in Fenway Park in Boston for the baseball, making more noise than they would at Amden Park or anywhere like that. It was incredible. And I do think on the night, they were just an incredible force for Scotland. Now, having said that, it was a hysterical overreaction to a very lucky win against one of the worst teams in the world. So let's not get above ourselves. But do I... See, it's interesting, because I actually have zero English DNA in me.
33:56Piers Morgan:I know that for a fact. I had my DNA tested on Good Morning Britain, and it came back zero English. Not.001, zero. I am not English at all. I was born in Guildford in Surrey. Born with a jackal is what he is. My blood is Irish, a little bit, actually a little bit of Welsh and Scottish, a little bit of Middle Eastern. So are you going to celebrate Scotland doing well, is the question. Well, that's what makes it interesting. I'm more amenable to saying I hope they win because I'm not really English. I mean, I'd like to pretend I am, but when your DNA doesn't have any English at all, what does that make me, John?
34:36John, I don't know. Hopefully we're in the same space. I could care as much about Scotland winning as I could care about Norway, right? You know, I look at it and I know that the jocks have made some wonderful noise, but empty vessels make the most noise, right? And when you work with Jim White, that spends his entire time saying, if England win anything, it'll be his worst day, it brings you into the situation where if you had any interest, that's been destroyed from you. So I want the Scots to go deeper in the tournament so I can watch them get properly pumped by somebody. John, what's your view?
35:03I actually like to see them do well. I think because of the facts, they're never going to win it, are they? They're never going to go as far as us or whatever that may be. So, listen, I've got John McGinn. I was buzzing for John McGinn that he gets on the score sheet as well. He is great. I've got some close Scottish friends as well that are, you know, they're proud that kind of Scotland are there. But listen, they're not going any further than the quarterfinals. So I'm more than happy to cheer them on and let them have their moment for me.
35:33Piers Morgan:Quarterfinals? And by the way, John, we can't let you go, actually. You know, I've thought about it. without the fact that one of the American commentators, Alexi Lalas, said that James Corden was a full kit wanker. And, of course, that is, in a way, a tribute to yourself. It was the original full kit wanker. So, what do you feel? Did Corden cop an unfair whack there? No, definitely not. But if he's going to do it, at least get the shin pads and the boots on and the armband and go for it. Exactly.
36:10Piers Morgan:Do you like the fact that you are the most famous full kit wanker in the world or not? Am I? The phrase was coined from... I might even appear on one of these shows. It was Simon, actually, yeah. I might even appear on one of these shows in my kit. I might surprise you guys. Yeah, you should. You should. You definitely should. No, definitely do that. And finally, because it obviously broke last night, Chelsea have sold Marc Cucurella to Real Madrid, Jose Mourinho's first signing. That, for 52 million, I've got to say, watching Chelsea against Arsenal, he was the best player, right, I thought, on the pitch for Chelsea.
36:53Piers Morgan:That's not good, is it, that immediately, as they're trying to battle back from coming 10th in the league, they sell a player of that quality? Yeah, he's going to be a big loss to us, actually. He's been one of our best players the last two or three years. So a big loss, I think, for Alonso coming in the door and he walks out the door doesn't look good. I think he's right up Mourinho's street in terms of the character and the person and the attitude he shows on a daily basis and on the pitch as well. I think one player's going to be happy, and that's Saka, because them two had many really good battles.
37:25I really like watching them two up against each other. But he's going to be a big loss to us. And listen, he spoke about it recently that he wanted to go. So it's probably been his dream to go and sign for Madrid. So, listen, I've got nothing but good words to say to him and I wish him good luck.
37:41Piers Morgan:John, thank you very much, mate. We'll see you on Thursday. Cheers, guys. See you then. See you, mate. In full kit, if you'd like to wear it as well. Having employed James Caldwell in one of his first films, he doesn't need to put a full kit on to be a wank. I'll show you of that. I like James Caldwell. I've known James Caldwell in a long time. He's an old mate of mine. Yeah, yeah. A little loyalty there. Yeah, and I've not seen him in the full kit, So we'll see whether he reacts to the news. But JT, I mean, he was the original of all get wankers. He was, yeah. Is that escaping it? No, no, he has to live with that.
38:13And I'm sure he was delighted that he brought us up.
38:17Piers Morgan:I could have asked you about, no, it's just me and you. The mood in New York when the New York Knicks won the basketball, the NBA finals, they hadn't won it in 53 years. And Arsenal hadn't won it in our league in 22 years. Very similar scenes. Why do we have to keep shoehorning? Well, because Spike Lee. So Spike Lee supports the coast. Yeah, he does, yeah. And so actually, he's the link. So that's the link. The scenes in New York... I was watching a film called Do the Right Thing the other day with Spike Lee in it as well. So there's another link, yes. It's brilliant. Yeah, Danny Aiello. Great film.
38:45Yeah, great film.
38:45Piers Morgan:But the scenes were very similar, weren't they? The streets of New York, the streets of North London. Yeah, yeah. Amazing outpouring. It shows you that in the end, sport... Of course. It doesn't really matter what the sport is. Sure. Sport does that. I mean, I have to say, I have always been of the thinking that when we do sport and when we celebrate things and when we go to football matches or to sports occasions, there's a sort of uniqueness about the humour, about the banter, about the inventiveness of the way that we sing songs. I remember going to watch Lennox Lewis fight Evander Holyfield in a boxing fight and they were singing Who Ate All The Pies to Don King when he came up on the screen and the Americans chant was USA, that imaginative stuff.
39:23But the scale of the New York Knicks, and it's sport now, Piers. You know, we talk about other things in our different walks of life. We talk about politics and economics and society. But when you've got a global audience for sport around the world that touches five or six billion people, football being that, but also you've talked about NBA and NFL as being a sport that's so prevalent in this country, the volume, and it kind of drowned out the World Cup for the first two or three days. I mean, it drowned it out to my benefit because I didn't have to watch the shitty scotch on Saturday night. And I could watch the Knicks instead because we couldn't find anywhere to watch it.
39:51But yeah, yeah, I mean, the scale of the outpouring and spending a bit of time walking around New York, which I lived in a few years ago, and talking to New Yorkers about this. And You see all the various people on the court side and see the interviews before the game, in the third or fourth game, the one that they lost midweek. You saw John McEnroe and you saw Ben Stiller and you saw people talking about it in such a way that it meant so much. You saw Jennifer Lopez.
40:16Piers Morgan:Well, Timothy Chalamet is saying that he would literally, this has happened more than he wants to win an Oscar. Yeah, OK. Yeah, so... All right, mate, well done, fantastic. But it's an interesting one because, I mean, you know, So, again, sport touches, and it should do. It's one of those things in life that's supposed to take you away for more than misery. Well, I felt at Arsenal, for example, the North London scenes, incredible amount of people, but it didn't matter what colour, creed, age, gender, nothing mattered. It was the ultimate unifier. And it came, ironically, at the same sort of period when we had the Unite the Kingdom rally in London, which was pretty divisive, as they tend to be.
40:56Piers Morgan:also rallies on the left, equally divisive. The one thing about that celebration in North London was, for everyone that was there, none of it mattered. But that is why it's so important to try and keep sport sacrosanct in a certain way, because it's so important. We see about politicians popping up. We've seen recently that the Germans aren't necessarily interested from a government level coming to watch any of the games in America. Good. Not interested in you being there, ultimately, through a prism of trying to influence people's... your popularity with whichever particular persuasion you're appealing to.
41:27If you're representing a left-leaning government in Germany, you want to suggest that Donald Trump is the devil incarnate, aren't you? So I like to see sport being as much about sport as it possibly can be. But you're right. What it does, it transcends people's everyday biases and takes you into a space where you can unite people. Zlatan Ibrahimovic. Interesting. I love him. Do you? You don't. No, I don't know what I think of him. I was asking someone else before about what he is as a pundit because I think he is a self-assured as he presents himself. I think to have the confrontations and the battles he's had during his career, to tell Guardiola that he thinks whatever he thinks of him and to take the stances that he takes, I find interesting.
42:04Of course, I'm surprised he hasn't attributed Sweden's 5-1 success down to him being here.
42:08Piers Morgan:Well, he wasn't there. No, but he was still close to the face of face. He went to the UFC fight at the White House. It was a Zlatan experience by being in the country that just inspired your boy up top from Arsenal and obviously Isak. I'm interested to see him work harder in the media in terms of be a bit more bolder and less formulaic in his opinions. And I'm interested to see when people start to challenge what he says and how he presents himself, because he's a compelling figure in the way that he presents himself with his self-assuredness. I'd like to see him interact with me. I'd like to see him interact with you and make him work a bit harder.
42:38Piers Morgan:Well, I interviewed him, actually, one-on-one for a couple of hours on a stage in London with no audience, just for my show. And I found him really compelling. Charismatic? Very charismatic, but also a twinkle in the eye. Right. The ego stuff, a little bit like with Cristiano Ronaldo, they're playing up to the big stage. Playing to the gallery. They're peacocks. A bit like you do then, yeah? Yeah. Actually, I wouldn't deny that. It's a peacock thing. Yeah. Right? You do as well. You just don't admit it. No, I do it slightly more sophisticated.
43:08Piers Morgan:Like all World Cups, I kind of feel now it's got going, all the noise around all the various politics or whatever, it does get consumed by the football, doesn't it? It will do. I mean, you'll have the Iranian situation where you've got the game coming up and you'll see the noise around that. And they could play America, which they've done twice before, but if they played it right now... They could. But we'll see because you've got a lot of American Iranians that are allowed to go to this game and are very clearly against their own regime. It would appear from the vox pops that are being done. So you'll see there was a big lot of noise made on other shows about the fact that there would be booing of the national flag.
43:42National anthem, we'll cry out. Christ on the flag, we see national anthem being booed in our country, so we don't have to make a four-act play out of it. But it will be interesting to see how the players react to some of the reactions that they may get. I'm not sure we're going to see all the catastrophe on the streets, the ice rocking around or whatever else. No, I don't think we're going to see any of that. And so once the background noise has died down, once we get through some of the group stages where some of the dead rubbers are so less consuming in terms of people's attention and we start to get into the real energy, I think the scale of the tournament will become prevalent or more prevalent to the Americans.
44:16Because I did a show the other day with your mates at Fox who send their regards to you, by the way. and they're trying to explain to them the scale of soccer to them, trying to talk to them about the fact that, you know, this is a sport that has five billion... I saw your interview. I thought it was very good. Thank you.
44:27Piers Morgan:Because it made them slightly stop in their tracks about how big it is. The scale of it. There is no sport like football. When you talk about it, I was sort of saying that you've got a president that was elected, some of it based upon social media, with 200 million followers. You've got his mate, Pope Leo, that's got 70 million followers, and you've got Ronaldo, your mate, and Messi, with 1.7 billion followers. Look at the scale of this sport and look at its influence. So I think it will resonate. Obviously, the Knicks playing in this part of the world has diluted the impact of what we've been seeing.
44:56But I think we'll see the scale, and I think we'll start to see some outstanding football.
45:01Piers Morgan:I walked through Central Park when I got here on Saturday, and the volume of people walking with shirts and a really lovely atmosphere, countries from all over the world, reminding me a bit of what it was like in Qatar. I was going to say that. Exactly right. And I felt that. and Times Square's been very warm, no incidents, everyone's having a good time, and I hope that lasts. I think it does, though, as a matter of course, though, doesn't it? On the media, though, interesting question for you, because we've both obviously been in the media a long time. The BBC chose not to come out here. Yeah, I saw that.
45:33Piers Morgan:And ITV, somebody, I think it was Andrew Neil, made a very good point today that, well, so what? Because the ITV studio is nowhere near, it's thousands of miles from most of the games, as is the BBC with their backdrop. I mean, apart from people in the industry... Yeah, it's dick-waving, isn't it? Who cares? It's a little bit willy-waving, isn't it? I mean, you look at it and say, I don't know. I mean, I've met Alex K. Jelsky at the BBC. The guy who runs BBC Sport. Yeah, I'm not sure. I mean, they're portraying him as a woke. I don't like some of the decisions they've made. I thought Football Focus went down the toilet.
46:04I thought it was a poor show, just more concerned with ideological positions rather than actually showing us what was going on inside football. But I look at it and say, if they'd have gone, if the BBC had gone, there'd be a backlash in the media about how much money, the taxpayer's money was being spent on licensing fee going towards funding a wonderful studio. On the other side of it, you've got ITV, and our guys from TalkSport went over there and looked at it and were all impressed by the size and scale and the wonderful environment. At the end of the day, you can put size and scale, if you produce shit content and pundits talk rubbish, it doesn't make any difference, does it?
46:32I'm not saying they will.
46:33Piers Morgan:But also, I just think in the end, it's about the football, right? And if the football's great, no-one's going to care where the backdrop... I mean, the backdrops are what they are, But ITV's backdrop is only relevant for about 0.1 % of the games. Otherwise, there are matches all over Canada, Mexico, America. I mean, who cares? Listen, I've always been curious about why is it the necessity to put a correspondent outside number 10 Downing Street. I know what number 10 Downing Street fucking looks like. I don't know if you're out to stand in front of it, but that's the media thing, isn't it? It's part and parcel of what they consider to be the optics of how you present something.
47:07As you say, the football speak for itself, but also given the fact that there is a lot of airtime to fill, It's incumbent upon content, pundits, to be able to carry other content that talks about stuff that's going on and around the sport and what's happening with other aspects of player mentalities, player welfare, political landscape. So, again, it will still come down to the value-added part, which is beyond the football, into the punditry, and how well they do.
47:30Piers Morgan:I agree. I agree. Unfortunately, we have one of the best pundits in the world. Me. In your own mind, yeah. Before we wrap up, you had an interesting debate with TalkSport about this referee. I did. And there was a bit of a blow-up on social media. He's a Somalian referee, Omar Atom, who was denied entry to the US. His salary will be paid in full. He was interrogated at Miami International Airport for 11 hours by US Immigration Force and then sent back. Now, Andrew Giuliani, the executive director of the White House's World Cup task force, said he stood by the decision. He said in the case of a referee, he was talking to some bad people right as he was coming into the United States.
48:15Piers Morgan:There's some classified information we can't discuss now at some point that may be released. I mean, do you believe that? Look, my first reaction to it was, given the state of the Somalian relationship with the US in terms of the US, think that their government doesn't issue passports properly, they think they haven't got particularly good return policy of people that are deemed to be offenders that they no longer want to the US, and given the fact that people have got links to Al-Shaban, the terrorist organisation, that was my first default setting. I said, well, if that's the case and the visa's been rejected, then, you know, the reason's been rejected.
48:43That then produced shouts and screams of racism, which is absolute nonsense because it wasn't predicated upon that. Then you look into it and you find out that these allegations have been made by the US government or their border control. I don't know, Piers, I don't know whether they should be producing a little bit more. If they want to make these outlandish claims, and here's the reason why, because the kid's getting a terrible reputation on the back of this now. He may go back to his home country and that continent may, you know, bristle and unite about the awful American policy. And he's now been given an opportunity to go and referee a game for UEFA in the big competition between Aspen Villa and PSG, the Super Cup, and he's been given a national hero status as a result of it.
49:22But he still carries a quite significant slur against his name. So I do think...
49:27Piers Morgan:Well, I feel the same way about people... They should produce it. Well, when people get banned from coming into the UK, you know, a friend of mine, Cenk Yugo, who comes regularly on Uncensored, very anti-Israeli government and their policies, but he's never been anti-Semitic to anything I've ever seen or heard. And he was barred entry to coming in... Actually, one of the things was going to be appearing on my show in London, then go and do the Oxford Union and to appear at a big other debate festival thing. And he got banned, but they didn't say why. And I think it would be transparent with public figures.
49:57But he's important views, though, to some extent. I can get that more...
50:00Piers Morgan:Yeah, but I think any public figure who is banned, whether you're a World Cup referee or someone like Cenk Guggen... I think the government that does it should say, this is why we banned it. And they can be judged accordingly. I'm inclined to agree with that, but also I don't want that to be a slippery slope to making sure... to having to have an incentive of entitlement to every time a government makes a decision or someone in authority makes a decision, they have to account for every aspect of it. So there's a balancing act. But I don't disagree in this situation that there should be... I mean, the African Federation will write to the American government, whether it produces anything, I think is a little bit of grandstanding on their part, and they think it will produce nothing.
50:35But I feel that it would be... Part of me wants some validation for suggesting I supported the outcome in the first place to wave at people saying, well, actually, there was substance behind this.
50:44Piers Morgan:Well, the truth is we don't know. We don't know. We don't know. What I have done, though, I have arranged for Donald Trump to immediately deport you... I thought that would become an excellent... ..for the crime of wearing a pink jacket with a face that is clearly extremely sunburb. And the clash for viewers, I think, is beyond the pale. No, it's not sunburb. It's just... And a deportable effect. It's not sunburn, it's just my temperature's going up with the irritation of listening to your drivel. That's what it is. Good to see you in New York. You're staying. I'm going back for a bit. I'll probably come back out.
51:14Piers Morgan:I think England have got a chance. So do I. But I do think the heat's going to be a factor. So do I. But I think England have got a good chance. Yeah, I think if they can stay relatively injury-free and they can deal with the conditions, we've got a great chance. We'll find out. Croatia's a tough team. And the Scots have no chance. No chance. And they're going out in the first round. No chance, but they have already won best fans of a tournament. They were fantastic. I would love to be in the Tartan Army. The problem is I can't really stretch my DNA really to Scotland. So I'm good to talk to you.
51:44Piers Morgan:We'll talk again on Thursday. We will. That's it from World Cup Uncensored.
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From the publisher
In episode two of World Cup Uncensored, former England captain John Terry returns to the show alongside co-hosts Piers Morgan and Simon Jordan to discuss the 2026 World Cup so far.
John discusses the England team's YouTube channel dropping a podcast with squad players Jude Bellingham and Morgan Rogers, in which the pair discuss fellow player Jordan Henderson and his importance to the team, a topic of conversation online since being called up by Thomas Tuchel.
The lads go on to discuss the hydration breaks taking place in every half of every game and whether they're ruining the flow of the football match and if it's just another way for American broadcasters to capitalise on advertisement breaks.
Finally, they look ahead to the England game against Croatia and the 'lack of quality' of the football played at the World Cup so far.
00:00 Introduction
01:49 Piers, Simon and John discuss hydration breaks
06:29 Should the England players sing the National Anthem?
13:01 The panel discuss who has impressed so far at the tournament
16:36 England squad leak suggests Gordon will start and Guéhi will be benched
21:34 Should Jordan Henderson have been brought to the World Cup?
28:40 John Terry discusses why the England players haven't been feeling appreciated
33:07 Piers, Simon and John discuss Scotland
36:35 John Terry: “Marc Cucurella to Real Madrid is a big loss”
38:15 Simon Jordan and Piers Morgan react to New York Knicks win
41:40 Will Zlatan Ibrahimović be a good pundit?
43:07 Simon and Piers discuss the political state of America during this World Cup
45:21 Should the BBC have gone to America for the World Cup?
47:41 Were FIFA right to ban the Somali referee Omar Artan?
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