‘We DON’T Want More STUPID WARS!’ 10 Years of MAGA & Andrew Tate Masculinity Debate

22:38Now, call me crazy. I think that when law enforcement prosecutes the guys pushing pimping hose degrees to young men via TikTok and sexually abusing underage girls, I think when those people get arrested, that's probably a good thing. And I believe and I think they believed that they had some level of diplomatic protection from the United States, particularly from the Trump administration. Tate brothers have been good allies. They've been a pretty good sport to the Trump administration. And from what we've heard today, it sounds like Trump is not going to lift a finger to help them. And so we'll see what happens in this hearing, but it's not looking good.

23:18Go figure. Golden age, we have all these indictments that we were promised, and of all people, it is the Tate brothers.

23:28Piers Morgan:So, Andrew, let me start with you here. In March 2025, you said, Christians should stop bitching about Tate. As long as Christians allow feminism and so-and-so-called lunatics to punish all forms of masculine expression in Christianity, men like Tate will reign. As long as the message is feminine only, Tate will beat you every time. um what do you feel about him now i mean it's still true there's nothing that i said there that was false as long as it's the case that masculinity is punished you're going to see men who say that it's okay to have traditional masculine capabilities um you're going to see those people glorified no matter what so in this case you could say hey these guys are pimps you can attack them personally you can say that you don't like how they behave but what's never really attacked is the messaging.

24:17And if the messaging was attacked, I think that leftists and feminists would have a much better time. But nobody really attacks the messaging. They just attack the people. And it's like throwing the Tates in jail isn't going to change the fact that having a pro-masculine message is a good idea. And it's something that the right wing needed desperately. And it's something that Christian ethicists need to focus on as well. It's okay to be a man. It's okay to be masculine.

24:42Piers Morgan:I agree about the attacks on masculinity. And I I think that's part of the reason for the rise of people like the Tates. However, they were brazenly misogynist in open sight. They didn't hide it. They spoke in a revolting way about women. They wanted women to stay at home, have no vote, have no job, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. This was all being done in plain view. They were quite proud of it. And I was surprised how many on the conservative right, the Christian conservative right in particular, were prepared to kind of tolerate that. um well there's a but there's a there's a there's a overlap between ideology so uh christian right wingers who are part of traditional churches those are patriarchal churches so you have overlap in some cases with the ideology so of course some of them are like hey look um i don't agree with the pimping i don't agree with uh the various things that these people do but some of the messaging I do agree with, and the fact that men are latching on to that messaging opens the door for Christian ethicists to come in and say, hey, look, masculinity is okay.

25:48The pimping part's not okay. The prostituting women out's not okay. But the masculinity aspect of it and the patriarchal aspect of it under the true church is perfectly acceptable. That's why so many Roman Catholics, Orthodox, and high church Protestants were able to kind of latch on to that message inside the atmosphere and start turning the tide towards the Christian ethics and away from the OnlyFans and pimping and prostitution, etc.

26:14Piers Morgan:Jojo, you said if you're getting your facts from Andrew Tate, congratulations, you're an idiot and an asshole and also very likely an incel and you need to get back to your basement dwelling raid spanking and video gaming because the grown-ups are busy working. Now, in a way, my issue with that would be that you're targeting, I think, a lot of people who I would categorise as victims of Tate, impressionable young men who feel a bit disenfranchised, feel a bit under attack and are gravitated to people who have a rhetoric and a style of delivering it, which is a lot of the time quite empowering.

26:51Piers Morgan:You know, get fit, get mentally strong, want to do this, want to succeed, but nothing wrong with any of that. But then they have this nefarious side to them and just how nefarious we're going to discover when they're finally put on trial. but is it fair of you to just demonise everyone that gravitated to them in the way that you did? I don't think it's unfair for me to demonise the Tates. I also think that we have a conflation of what the word masculinity means, right? I mean, again, Andrew Tate was arrested in pedal pushers and a purple shirt with his chest hanging out. I mean, the whole thing has been memed a million times.

27:28But, you know, Donald Trump is certainly not the vision of masculinity that I think people would say, oh, if I were to look the word up in a dictionary, it would be the guy who's covered in theatrical cake makeup and wears lifts in his shoes and a girdle. But I think that it's been incredibly damaging to young men in this country that that conflation of what masculinity is has meant bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, bragging about raping women, bragging about beating women, I'm the mom of a 16 year old boy who will tell me that that he sees his friends who watch this shit and think that that guy's cool.

28:12That guy is what it means to be manly. I think that's a bigger referendum on what's happening in our culture as a whole. Like, again, as I said, as a mom of a 16-year-old son who went through the pandemic, I would say that video games, that he was isolated with his friends, that they were playing games like – what's the one that they all play? I can't think of it – where instantaneous gratification so that they weren't having conversations with people face-to-face, those kinds of things that are crucial to their development. they were missing and these guys came in and filled that void. But I would say that if at this point, if at any point, you're somebody who's looking at the Tates and saying, yeah, that's what it means to be a man, then you're confused to say the very least.

29:01And something else is missing in your life that you're trying to fill with this manufactured idea of what it is to be a man. Yeah. So this is, if you want talking about conflation, right? Conflating messaging. this is a woman who said that Charlie Kirk was the king of the incels right so talk about right talk talk about what words talk about what don't don't know what words mean right a guy married to former model right who has children is king of the incels it's like give me a break that's one she also said that he was the head hang on hang on hang on hang on I didn't interrupt you I didn't Then I'll respond.

29:39So he also said that he's the king of Hitler youth, right? In TV USA. They don't know what words mean. And so here she's going to pretend that suddenly she knows what the word masculinity means. Masculinity is set and enriched through virtue ethics and the idea of the virtues around the male and the idea of virtues around the feminine. That's how we even know what femininity is, what masculinity is. There are some parts of Tate's message that I agree with you are really, really poor. when it comes to that, but there's other parts of his message that weren't very poor when it comes to that. So don't try to tell us what masculinity and femininity is.

30:17You don't even know what words mean. If you're going to call a guy like Charlie Kirk, the king of the incels, you don't even know what words mean. Okay. Because Charlie Kirk was married to Erica Kirk, who by the way, may or may not have been introduced to him by Donald Trump. That's because she worked for Donald Trump before she met Charlie. So what? Yes. So what? Well, there's lots of speculation as to how that all came to pass. But to say that Charlie Kirk was the king of the incels is not a referendum on Charlie Kirk's choices in his life. Charlie Kirk went to college campuses with Turning Point and courted young men who were incels.

30:56They were voluntarily celibate. They were, they believed. What? What are you talking about? Just making stuff up? No, Charlie And he found a bunch of young guys Who didn't know where they belonged Right, they didn't have a group That doesn't make them incels That doesn't make them incels And he fills this void, and yeah That was part of the original draw of Charlie Kirk How does that make them incels, Joe? How would that make them incels? He had to say pro-marriage, pro-family message Get married They wanted to blame somebody else for the fact That they didn't have enough game to get a girl So it was somebody else's fault.

31:36You're just making it up. That's not TPUSA's message or Charlie Kirk's message. What are you talking about? By the way, hang on. I'm saying that was exclusively his message. I'm saying that was part of the appeal. Well, let me bring in. Let me bring in. You have no Charlie Kirk fan ever. It's always like the liberals have to say this was his appeal. But you're not a fan of his, and no fan of his has ever once said that was the appeal. Anyway, of course not. You think a guy is going to be like, oh, yeah, I like Charlie Kirk. Can you explain why I couldn't get laid?

32:04Piers Morgan:Let Dave speak. No, of course not. But also I think you just saying it is pretty ridiculous too. And I don't think anyone actually feels that way. Anyway, I think with Andrew Tate, the thing that's kind of interesting here, and I think particularly from the perspective of say like me and Andrew, is that, you know, people on the left, it's like they call everything Hitler. And then when something that looks like Hitler shows up, they go, oh my God, where did it come from? And it's like, dude, it's a direct reaction to you. It is so obviously a direct reaction to you. Is it a coincidence? Is it a coincidence that the Tates happened to blow up after 15 years of the left lecturing the entire society about toxic masculinity and enforcing safe spaces and all of this just nonsense?

32:48The excesses of the Me Too movement. It is so obvious. We're not sure what men and women are, Dave. Yes, yes. We don't know the difference between boys and girls. This is an overcorrection to you. And then you come around and say these things to two guys like me and Andrew, who are husbands and fathers who are promoting more traditional family. By the way, Pierce, when you said it's not the message of the Tates that women should be at home and not vote and be in the kitchen, you're getting closer to me and Andrew territory with that. Their message was like, you should put women out in front of like a webcam and sexually exploit them.

33:21And this stuff that I think is just horrible. This idea that they didn't have a pro marriage message.

33:26Piers Morgan:I think Andrew Tate grew increasingly misogynist in terms of stay at home and stuff when he became a Muslim. Well, I think maybe, but can I just make the most important part? I believe that we didn't touch on here, right, is that all of this, so I don't like any of that pimp shit. I hate it. I believe in pushing like a family message. I think that's where you find true happiness and meaning for both men and women, and it's better for children, and it's better for society. That being said, none of that matters right now. These are American citizens who are being charged with a crime. And all that matters is specifically what's going on here.

33:58And I got to say, Pierce, without knowing the details of the crime at all, I will say from my perspective as an American, I'm humble that I don't know that much about your country. What I've been reading about you guys, I feel pretty nervous about extraditing Americans to your judicial system right now, dude. It has shown so much corruption and so much, quite frankly, political and bias over the years that I think a lot of people rightfully do go, is this really about the crime that they committed or is this about some type of political agenda? By the way, a long philosophical conversation that Andrew would be better to break down than me is that, by the way, Andrew, from the liberal worldview, what did Tate even do that was wrong?

34:37Really? I think it was. I think it was wrong. From the progressive worldview, they endorse OnlyFans. They consider it to be empowering for women to be online prostitutes. The only time they object is if a man's involved getting a cut of the money. That's it. That's the only time a member of the liberals object.

34:53Piers Morgan:I think, to be fair, there are very serious charges, including sex trafficking, rape, sexual abuse, and child pornography. The whole groundwork is framed for there to be pimps when you glorify prostitution. and they glorify a cam girl prostitution and then they wonder how pimps get involved and make a ton of money. For them being abusive to women. I mean, this is again how you end up. I'm blaming women. I'm blaming all of them. I blame the pimps and I blame the hoes. I blame the pimps and the hoes. You can pick and choose that some of the things that the Tate brothers have done have been potentially bad, but not all of it is bad.

35:35Is that how it works? Because when it comes to the... accusations levied against them. They're human beings, yes. You would think that this wouldn't, you would say this would disqualify somebody whole hog. If they've been accused of the things that they have been accused of, how can you support them at all? I don't support them. First of all, hang on, hang on. You said I don't like everything that they do. I don't like the pimping stuff. You realize that there's going to be some things right. Hang on, hang on. You're doing it right now. You just picked and choose things you agree with Dave Smith on.

36:03But in his overall view, you would absolutely hate him and my view. Well, no. But you pick and choose the things you agree with us on. Yeah, the war. But somehow we agree with you on the war. We can agree. Yeah, exactly. That doesn't mean that I would endorse either one of you guys.

36:16Piers Morgan:Let me just pivot to something which we may all reach consensus on. I don't know. We might do. We might not. But another attack by Candace Owens this week on Erica Kerr. Let's take a listen to some of this. I've been on a wild pursuit of fame and fortune your entire life. You started doing pageants, I think we showed, when you were like 12, okay? Sixth grade, maybe. And you have not stopped wanting to be in the spotlight. Every person you have dated has had some degree of fame. And you saw Charlie as your ticket to more fame. And then you finally got it, in your view. When you walked out in a white pantsuit with sparklers behind you, and you sucked all that in.

37:00That was it. That was the moment.

37:03Piers Morgan:I've got to say, Andrew, you know, I've become increasingly disturbed by the relentless onslaught against Erica Kirk by Candace Owens. I think it's disgusting. I think it's inhumane. I think whatever you think of Erica Kirk's public appearances or interviews or whatever, she was there with their two young children when she saw her husband assassinated, murdered, shot dead. and to target a grieving widow in such a relentless campaign without any real evidence for any of the nonsensical theories she's putting forward, I think is actually pretty evil. What do you think? We have right now a$200 ,000 offer for Candace Owens to debate her theories on Charlie Kirk with yours truly.

37:51I will say publicly right now on your show, we will up it to 300 ,000 just to have this woman actually debate her views. But they can't. None of them can. Not her, none of her orbiters like Baron Coleman and others. They all refuse to actually debate their views. Now, you might ask, why is this the case? It's because she's the pot calling the kettle black. Imagine a woman works for PragerU, works for TPUSA, works for Ben Shapiro, works for all these people and then says, hey, this other woman over here, she's a clout chaser. It's like, give me a break. Pot calling the kettle black across the board.

38:30No evidence whatsoever on Owen's side for any of their crazy conspiracies. And you find out on top of that, that many of the people who are within their orbit who push this, like the Unfuck America tour and others, guess what? They're funded by ActBlue. Oh, go figure. They're funded by ActBlue and trying to use this as a wedge issue to try to divide TPUSA and the Republicans at large. It's being used as a wedge issue. Now, can you criticize TPUSA for a Zionist message or having had a Zionist message or to pro-Israel? Sure. Can you criticize Erica Kirk and her personal opinions? Absolutely. Can you do all of this?

39:08I think that that's all fine. But that's not actually what's going on. what's actually going on is that this is being used as a wedge issue for a revenge plot and that's what they want they want revenge against the evil tp usa that's what she wants and they will do anything to get it because for the first time ever republicans have outreach into universities which is where we've been wanting to be my entire lifetime and they're doing everything they can to destroy that both progressives and this alternative movement and they're such cowards they won't even debate their views.

39:42Piers Morgan:Yeah, Dave, I mean, to me, you know, I've actually ironically got a$300 ,000 bet for charity with Candace Owens about Brigitte Macron, whether she's a male or female. I believe she's a female who's had three children. The ongoing court case will determine that, and I suspect I'll win my bet. You didn't get any odds on that? You just went head-to-head? I went head-to-head, and the truth is, even when she loses, which she will, Candace will claim the whole thing is rigged and this and that, because she's a delusional fantasist or a cynical fantasist who just does this stuff for clicks and clout and money.

40:17Piers Morgan:What do you feel, though? I mean, I just feel like this attack on Erica Kirk has gone on pretty much from when Charlie Kirk got murdered. It's just despicable. I just wake up and think, how can you do this to a grieving young widow? How can anyone do that? Am I wrong? OK, first of all, I'm going to say, like, if you and Andrew are just giving, like, $300 ,000 out to someone, I like debates and bets. All right. I don't know if we're just paying. So listen, I'll say this. Hmm. Number one. I'll beat you for free. Yeah, so will I. I've already had that, Andrew. I want to make money here. That's right.

40:59That's the point. So, no, I mean, I'll say this. I don't know how I feel about using the grieving widow card. You know, I was friends with Charlie Kirk, but I was not close friends with him. in the way that other people were. I would certainly feel strange saying, you know, like attacking his widow. And I also don't want to judge anybody based on how they react after something like that happens to them because it's very traumatic. There is something where once you jump in there and you're leading an organization and you're constantly in the media and you're becoming a political actor, you're not exactly just a widow anymore.

41:36You're in the arena. and I think it's legitimate to criticize it. And look, quite frankly, I'll just say, Erika acted very bizarre in a lot of ways. And I'm not saying anything more than that, but I also will say that this, and you can see this in some of the late interviews in Charlie's life, there was this massive split that was already coming. I mean, this was already after the 12-day war and after the Epstein cover-up. There was this, this fight was coming. Charlie was doing everything he could to keep it together. and to have him killed in those circumstances. And then I got to say, if you guys want to blame Candace for all this, fine.

42:14I am not up to date on her latest theory and I'm not here to defend what she - It's all bullshit. It's all complete bullshit. Well, I'll say this. I will say this. The director of counterterrorism himself said that there were angles of this investigation that got shot down that should have been looked into. Now, I'm not making any claim other than that. I'm just saying - talking about Joe King. Yes. Yes. Now the fact that all I'm making is this argument. Okay. I'm not making anything beyond this. I'm saying the fact that the, the way that there was this fight between kind of the Israel lobby and Charlie going out, that there was this big event where he brought Tucker and Megan and myself, and we had this debate and then it's a thing.

42:57And then you've got him with the text messages saying, I might have to turn on Israel and I fear for my life or whatever i'm not saying that's not evidence of anything that you could take to court or prove anything but that is enough fertile ground that i think in today's environment you just go well i guarantee you the conspiracy when you start suggesting candace has done that erica

43:16Piers Morgan:was somehow involved in her husband's murder i'm not defending that i'm not not only that dave dave that's not even the sequence of the events that happened he didn't send out any text message that he was concerned israel was going to kill him he was concerned leftists were going to kill him. And guess what? Well, wasn't it vague? Wasn't it pretty vague about what he was saying? Because I thought it wasn't in the context. I thought it was in the context of him saying. Nope. You're conflating a tweet by Harrison Smith. Maybe I am. Fine. Fair. Hang on. I'm just telling you, you're conflating a tweet by Harrison Smith, which many people do, with the actual text message that was sent.

43:51Of course, he was fearing for his life. He was at these massive public left-wing events. and these nutcases have been known, as you might remember, to kill people constantly. They seem to really enjoy that. One tried to take out Trump, for instance. So look, I understand you're not making any bold claims here. You've told me in DMs you're not going to make claims on this, and that's totally fair. You're going to stick with the claims that you feel comfortable with. I'm fine with that. What I'm saying, though, is that— Well, I just say, what doesn't add up to me, man, is like, look, if there's a patsy, this guy shouldn't be alive and standing trial right now.

44:22And so if we're going to a trial, then let's sit here and let this trial play out and get as much information as we can from it. And like I certainly – I don't know. I guess I would just say I never see it as being my role to go around and like hall monitor the other dissidents about who's being too much of a conspiracy theorist. At the same time, I was publicly saying the second after he got killed, don't jump to conclusions and blame in Israel and all this stuff because you don't have a case. But Dave, there's a difference if you're using something like this as a wedge issue in order to split party politics, especially when you're coming into midterms, things like this.

45:00But who's to say that's our motivation? Hang on, hang on, hang on. For people who are involved in politics like me, that is actually very important that this be addressed because it becomes a divisive issue within our own party and politics. Now, Joe, for instance, she has the same type of problem. It's just in a different direction where she has communists who are building up out east and her party is going to have to deal with that. Right. So there's internal struggles regardless of the parties that you're working within the left right paradigm, which is currently the American paradigm.

45:32Piers Morgan:So, well, my issue, if I can pick up on that, I just want to end with what I've been promising viewers the whole show, which is Joe and your little message to me on X, because I posted this after the UFC event at the White House. I said, I thought the UFC event at the White House was great, very different, very entertaining. Congrats to Dana White and Donald Trump. And to my liberal friends shrieking in faux outrage about it, I simply say this, pick your battles with Trump. This ain't a hill to hysterically die on. I don't think that was an unreasonable comment. I thought this was probably pretty accurate.

46:08Piers Morgan:There was no real harm done by the UFC spectacle. Most people who watched it enjoyed it. If they liked it, UFC particularly enjoyed it. But your response, Jojo, I have to say left a little to be desired. Your full response to me on the public platform of X was, fuck off, Piers. Now, I'd like to give you a final opportunity to maybe withdraw that tweet. Short and sweet. I stand by my words, my friend. Linda, look, I'm old enough to remember when you told me to pipe down on your show and then you took to that same platform to tell your audience that I was forever banned, forever banned from your show until and unless, and I quote, I learned to behave myself.

46:55Right. Piers, I think I've been on your show. Quite clearly, I have failed in my own yardstick here.

47:01Piers Morgan:And that's not counting the 10 times I said I couldn't do your show After that because I thought He said I was banned and told me to learn to behave And yet I came back Because I wanted to give you another chance So me telling you to fuck off When I disagree with you on the app You told me I was forever banned on Feels like justice, my friend Well you do seem to be behaving better She does, I was about to say exactly that I do think I do think my tactic is what you are behaving. I would say your behavior has been 35 % better than it normally is. It's pretty much out on this particular panel. So, but I don't, I don't even, I have no horse in the Candace Owens fight.

47:44I'm just watching these guys duke it out. You know, look, I'm just sitting back watching because it's, it's kind of like I need some popcorn, but I would hardly say that I've ever been badly behaved because I have convictions and because I believe in what I have to say. Of course. But yeah, I stand by saying fuck off about the bread and circuses of that ridiculous event. Thank you very much indeed. That destroyed the South law.

48:04Piers Morgan:Well, I kind of admire people who stand by their guns, even when their guns are revolting. Thank you to my panel. Excellent debate. I really appreciate it. Thank you all very much. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Piers Morgan on Sensen is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.

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