'We Thought We Might Lose Him' Jordan Peterson Update + Chris Williamson On Health Battle

23:02This just feels unfair. That being said, I did interview Bonnie Blue in a church the other day, so this could be some sort of karmic retribution for doing that.

23:11Piers Morgan:Do you feel, I mean, are some of your own mantras that you've developed very successfully over the last few years, have they been challenged through your experience? Hugely. Very humbling. it is all well and good to say that you are able to deal with hard things and you can put up with resilience and all the rest of it. But when what's taken away from you is your capacity to work harder, this is one of the problems, and I imagine that you would have this same issue too. If you get sick, the thing that you need to do is rest. Yes. The solution that you have to most of your problems is work harder.

23:45So the very thing that you need to do is the very thing that you find most difficult. and that relinquishing, that letting go of control is the inverse of what the overachiever, the insecure overachiever usually does.

23:58Piers Morgan:I had long COVID for about seven, eight months and by long COVID, I mean I lost my taste and my smell. I never come back fully. I don't taste or smell things. Are you complained about not enjoying your favourite red wine to me? Well, no. What was so weird? So I had a very high fever with COVID. This was about three, four years ago. At the sort of height of it all. And sorry, I've actually probably done that on the ballot. Come on, I've just finished it. It's got a compromised immune system. I'm reading the golf tournament. There was a rumour that a particular actor had spread COVID again. But anyway, none of us got tested, if you don't know.

24:30Piers Morgan:But what was interesting about it was that the... I spoke to a GP, very experienced local GP, and he said, you know, with this long COVID, I'm reading a lot about it, I was exhausted. With 25 % energy for seven months. And the fear was, am I always going to be like this? Correct. Well, I never get my smell back, never get my taste back. Well, I always just have no energy. Because I live off energy. It's like my whole USB. And he said, you know, I'll tell you what the problem is. He said, what you should do is just go down to the coast, book a nice home, and do what we used to do, send people for convalescence on the coast.

25:06Piers Morgan:Get some sea air, gentle walks, and spend six weeks recovering from this trauma on your body. But nobody does that anymore. And he said, what you do is you continue working, are literally continued working. You never let your body actually recover, and therefore you just exacerbate everything. I thought that made a lot of sense. Well, look, I think you have a big problem that a lot of the people who overwork themselves try to fix their problem by overworking their way through their recovery, which is the opposite of what it is. But, yeah, the main... And I'm sure you see this with your patients too.

25:39The main fear is, oh, this is going to be me for the rest of my life. And that... The most painful thing out of everything that I went through with the health journey, which is still ongoing, the most painful thing was disappointment. It was getting my hopes up because every different doctor, their speciality is the answer, right? It's a golden hammer. The nutritionists think that it's a food problem. The sleep experts think it's a rest problem. The training people think it's an S &C problem. The mole people think it's an environmental stressor problem. The Lyme people think it's a Borrelia problem.

26:11And you're like, OK, each time you speak to one to cross off one of those culprits in your Sherlock Holmes red herring list, you get your hopes up, you fix it, and then it's not there. Or you struggle to fix it. But, yeah, SERS is... I think that is going to be one of the things that we see over the next five years as, like, the big problem.

26:30Piers Morgan:Gary, what do you think of the spiritual aspect of what Michaela was saying there, that she believes is a kind of negative energy at play with her dad and other people on the Christian right? She referenced Charlie Kirk and Dennis Prager and so on. I mean, it's a very out-there thing to say. I think it sounds like it's a very out-there thing to say, but for people that are believers, you know, we feel this, this sentiment. You know, Bobby Kennedy, who's now the Secretary of Health and Human Services, one of the most principled, passionate, driven human beings I've ever had the pleasure of meeting.

27:03You're on his advisory board, I think, aren't you? I am, for Maha Action. I chair that board. and here he is just asking the questions. And just for asking the questions, just for challenging the status quo, their very basis of science is centered around a question, the hypothesis, right? If we didn't have a hypothesis, we wouldn't have science. When we stop questioning the science, science grinds to a complete halt. And so just for simply asking the questions, the level of vitriol and hatred, and I think this is spiritually driven. And I think this is much of a spiritual revolution that we're seeing in America as we are, a revolution on health.

27:42Because people are so dogmatic about political parties that everything becomes politicized. And so now there is a dogmatic attack on spirituality in general. You see the rise in anti-Semitism, you see the rise against Christianity. Because anyone that has a belief system that is different from someone else's opinion system is considered to be a racist or a bigot. We don't accuse people of being racist or bigots for not agreeing with our religion, but we get accused of being racist or bigots for not agreeing with their dogma. Right. And it's a very oxymoronic situation.

28:21Piers Morgan:I've actually written a book about this. Oh, have you? All right, I'm going to read it. Woke is dead, which is an optimistic view of it, but I get into that as well. You know, I do think this kind of... this sort of tribalism, this intransigence, this self-righteousness about your own position being not just the correct one, but the only one that's allowed. And anyone who deviates must be destroyed. It's a kind of, in a weird way, this wokeism, for want of a better phrase, it reminds me of fascism, the way it conducts itself. And yet they would all say they hate fascists. But it is a form of fascism.

28:55Piers Morgan:Let's lighten below slightly. Longevity. YOU'RE A BIG BELIEVER THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO START LIVING LONGER AND LONGER AND LONGER, WHICH HISTORICALLY WE HAVE DONE. I WAS FASCINATED TO READ THAT LAST YEAR YOU WENT TO SEE A FRIEND OF MINE, CHRISTIANA RONALDE, THE FOOTBALLER, WHO IS A LONG TIME FRIEND OF MINE NOW, BUT ONE OF THE FITTEST MOST HEALTH CONSCIOUS PEOPLE I KNOW. AND I IMAGINE HE WAS QUITE CURIOUS HOW LONG YOU CAN GET HIM TO LIVE. NO QUESTION. HE HAD ONE OF THE BEST BIOHACKING LABS I 'VE EVER SEEN. I WENT TO SEE HIM IN SAUDI October. But he's a big believer in taking care of the temple.

29:34I mean, he realizes that he's past his prime in terms of his football years, but he's not past his prime in terms of his biologic years, right? So his chronological age doesn't align with his biological age.

29:46Piers Morgan:What is his biological age, would you say, Christiano? Well, significantly younger than his chronological age. There are tests you can do to, you know, determine that. What would you guess? I would say he's probably 15 or 18 years younger than his biological age? No question. I mean, his body is... I mean, he's a specimen not just physically, but biophysiologically. You know, if you look at his, what's called his methylation pathways, if you look at his blood biomarkers, if you look at the level of toxicity in his blood, mold, mycotoxins, metals, parasites, viruses, you see that these are nonexistent because of the way that he takes care of himself.

30:19Regularly doing red light, regularly applying hormetic stresses like sauna, cold plunging, getting adequate rest, really focusing on his sleep, eating the whole food diet. You know, a lot of these are just the basics. And that's a lot of what we did with Dana White, too. People say, well, if I had, you know, tens of millions of dollars, I could have done the same thing. But the truth is the vast majority of what we did with Dana White, any American, you know, of any genre could do. Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have eczema. So I get how it can steal your time. But why let eczema take over when you can talk to your doctor about ebglis?

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31:43Piers Morgan:Is it good for society, Chris, that we live on and on and on? I mean, look at the National Health Service in the UK. It used to be an amazingly wonderful institution that everyone just loved around the world. The problem, we've discovered, is capacity. So it was built... Are you suggesting killing old people sooner to alleviate stress? No, no, no. Definitely not bringing in euthanasia to old people. No, no. What I'm suggesting is that when it was devised in the 50s, it was devised for a population of just around 50 million. Now we're heading to 70 million population. But we're living 10 years longer than we were in the 50s.

32:23Piers Morgan:The pressure that's put on infrastructure has been immense and to the detriment, really, of this great system. I don't know what the answer is. I would love to live to 150. Is it a good idea? Well, birth rate decline is going to bring the population down pretty quickly. Yeah, no doubt. So you don't need to wait long. If you wait 70 years, you're going to see the top of the human civilization, and from there it's a really, really steep decline. Really? Oh, huge, huge. It's crazy. Elon Musk warns about this all the time. For every 100 South Koreans, there will be four great-grandchildren. That's a 96 % drop over the next 100 years.

32:56Yeah, it's scary. And the UK is going to be... It is so precipitous, and I keep talking about it, and people keep getting mad. In the interim, people living longer is going to put more stress. What's also going to happen is, let's say that you have fewer young people being born and people living longer. This results in a demographic shape like this. What you want is like this. More young people who are contributing to the economy, who are able to look after, in terms of adding to infrastructure, supporting pensions, actually providing literal health care. But you have this. So you have an ever-increasing number of old people, an ever-decreasing number of young people.

33:33Who is going to support them? Who is going to be able to look after them? You have fewer nurses. You have less money being injected into the economy. And if you say, well, that doesn't matter because AI is going to come in and fix things, it's going to improve efficiency so much, go, OK, that now results in five or ten companies globally capturing almost all of the wealth and all of the power. That doesn't seem particularly fantastic for an egalitarian society either.

33:55Piers Morgan:Is AI, Gary... I mean, I spoke to a surgeon in L.A. recently who said in a three-week period that he wasn't at his hospital, the improvement in AI in his field was unbelievable. It's astounding. Are you using it? It's really astounding. We use it. I mean, AI can take 700 trillion independent variables and create an actionable result. Right. So I think the use of AI in healthcare is you combine early detection, artificial intelligence, and big data, and you bring those three things together, and you create actionable results. And that's why I think that we're going to see life extension to age 120, 140 within the next five years.

34:34Really? If you're alive five years from today, it will be your choice whether or not you want to live to 120 or 130.

34:39Piers Morgan:Is it... I mean, Elon Musk has shown me on his phone videos of his optimist humanoid robots dancing. But are we going to... Before we get to that, obviously, they're going to come, and he says they're going to be the biggest thing in the world, that everyone's going to want one. There'll be$20 ,000 each. I've heard him talk about that. Rich people will have 10 of them, and they'll do everything, all the menial tasks you could imagine. But is there like a midway that's going to come to in terms of health where you'll start to become half bionic, right? Where, you know, your heart will pack up. So you'll get a bionic heart, almost like the old$6 million map.

35:13Piers Morgan:It will come. Yeah, it's not really the organ replacement. It's the life extension. It's true life extension. Because, you know, to date, we've done 270, 280 million, you know, peer-reviewed, published, randomized clinical trials in the United States. And a lot of these trials are done in very myopic environments. You take a cell out of the body, you study how it behaves in a lab, and then you assume that when you put it back in the body, it's going to behave the same way. And nothing could be further from the truth. But what AI is capable of doing is looking at that cell in its community. It models it.

35:42So, yeah, so it models it. And it says, well, what if we take a statin, we lower cholesterol, and reduce this risk of cardiovascular disease? What's the consequence of taking this valuable construction material out of the biome? Oh, well, now you have hormone disruption. You have cell membranes. cell wall disruption. You have increased risk of Alzheimer's, dementia. So it can look at this multifactorial system, this community that ourselves... But do it in seconds, right? And do it in seconds. 700 trillion independent variables. It far exceeds the capacity of the brightest mind in the world. What do you think is going to be the first frontier of this?

36:16Is there something that you think will be the initial unlock when it comes to the AI? So, it's early detection. So, detecting cancers at stage zero, locking into the human genome right at birth. And I'm not talking about changing the human genome. I'm not talking about going in like CRISPR and snipping the human genome, but looking at people's genetic variants and saying, you have these predispositions, you have these inability to methylate certain nutrients. So this is your specific nutrient profile that you need to supplement with. This is your risk profile. Here's exactly what you need to avoid.

36:45And if you are going to use a chemical or synthetic or pharmaceutical, you'll know exactly the dose in exactly what form. Because right now we apply a blanket to the entire population. So interesting.

36:57Piers Morgan:What's the one thing we shouldn't eat and the one thing we should eat? If you could literally name two things. If I were only given two things, I'd say you shouldn't eat processed foods. Any? Any processed foods. I mean, if you look at the blue zones, you know, there's no continuity between diets. Well, my favorite, I mean, I got a place in LA, my favorite story of American food, which always startles me. If you have a loaf of bread in London, within a week it's moulding. Yeah. That same loaf of bread in LA, I can leave it there a month, six weeks, two months. Nothing's changed. You've got to look at the difference in the number of ingredients in McDonald's fries in the UK versus the US.

37:36Really? This is the first stat. So the UK and Europe is three ingredients and one of them is salt, which is optional, and the US is 15 ingredients. And this happens across the board. This is Cali Means and Casey Means big thing, right? Kellogg's are using the same factory that makes Fruit Loops for the U.S., also makes it for Canada. But why? Why the wild discrepancy? Because we have something called the grass laws, generally regarded as safe. This is one of the things that Bobby Kennedy and Health and Human Services is trying to modify. So generally regarded as safe has a lot of loopholes. So a lot of toxicity leaks into the food supply.

38:14Petroleum-based food dyes. Paraquat, glyphosate. And you look at these chemical companies like ChemChina, for example, that makes Paraquat, which is a felony to use in China. So you can't use this on crops in China. But it's manufactured there, and you export this to the United States. And we're considering in House Appropriations Bill Section 453, we're actually considering giving broad immunity to these chemical companies for known harm. There's a correlated risk with Parkinson's disease. There are correlated risks to mesothelioma with things like glyphosate. But we'll give broad immunity to these chemical companies.

38:51And we're about to do that in the United States. And then these things leak into our food supply. So it's not the food. It's the distance from the food. It gets even further than that. The inner lining of the bags that Kellogg's comes in is... There's a preservative that's put on the inside of that in America that isn't in Canada. and they're produced in the same factory next to each other. You see, it's why... I will say you do a better job of it here in the UK than we do in the States. Yeah, I mean, it's one of the reasons

39:16Piers Morgan:I've got a lot of time for Robert Kennedy. I've interviewed him a number of times. And the more I've interviewed him, the less of a whack job I think he is. I think he has some ideas that are a bit out there, no question. But I do think he comes at it from a place of real informed opinion, albeit he disagrees with a lot of the official way of looking at stuff. And I look at America and you see a country that's full of a lot of unhealthy people. Very much. Very obese country, comparative really to its wealth, right? Most in the world. And you think, well, clearly, the expert view hasn't worked very well.

39:47Piers Morgan:That's right. Right? The establishment way of treating these issues hasn't been working. I do think that you can lay an awful lot of this. To speak as the kind of resident muggle in this side of the panel, I think you can lay a lot of it at the feet of hyper-palatable, ultra-processed foods that are calorie-dense, right? That carries a lot of the weight. You know, we can point the finger at red 40 and food dyes and seed oils and, you know... You have to pick the low-hanging fruit. Yeah, which is, I can eat lots of this over and over again, and it has loads of calories in it. That's a very, very bad start for doing this sort of stuff.

40:22And Ozempic and the rise of GLP-1s and anorectics, as they're now called as we move into, like, GLP-3s and GLP-4s and stuff like that, they are an artificial solution to an artificial problem. Yeah, I mean, people are still bathing their cellular biology in a toxic soup, but to taking trisepatide, retitrutide, or semaglutide, you know, wagovia zempic, to lower their hunger cravings so they eat less of the same garbage. The truth is we just need to get ultra-processed foods out of the diet because GLP-1 is a hormone we produce in our gut, and it's produced in response to nutrient density. So satiety comes from nutrient density.

41:00And when we remove the nutrients from the food, we replace those with chemical additives, a lot of which are intentionally designed to circumvent the GLP-1 response. I was going to say, have you seen this? There's currently a war going on between food companies and the GLP-1s, so they're trying to make additives in food that bypass the way that GLP-1s work in the gut. I do have to say I had a cinnamon roll from around the corner just before I came in here, so, again, I'm not quite the picture of health. Gary, I just want to mention before we finish,

41:31Piers Morgan:you've announced the launch of a methylation-focused DNA test, a personalized supplement line designed to transform human potential through genetic precision. In simple language, what is that? That sounds really complicated. I do it for a living, so wow. You know, we just got our genetic test and supplements approved here through the NHS, HHS in the US, so NHS here. YOUR REGULATORY ENVIRONMENT IS TOUGH. SO THEY'RE VERY STRINGENT. MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO GET APPROVAL HERE THAN IN THE U.S. BUT ESSENTIALLY ALL THIS IS DOING IS GIVING THE BODY THE RAW MATERIAL IT NEEDS TO DO ITS JOB. YOU KNOW, MOST OF US ARE SUPPLEMENTING JUST FOR THE SAKE OF SUPPLEMENTING.

42:13WE'RE NOT SUPPLEMENTING FOR DEFICIENCY. YOU KNOW, WE BELIEVE THIS IN PLAN.

42:16Piers Morgan:MOST DOCTORS TELL ME THAT MOST SUPPLEMENTS ARE POINTLESS. MOST SUPPLEMENTS ARE POINTLESS. OTHER THAN VITAMIN D IF YOU DON'T GET ENOUGH SUNSHINE. I would agree with that. Actually, most of the others are kind of pointless. But some supplements are critical. So if you had a leaf rotting in a palm tree and you had a true arborist, a true botanist look at that tree, they wouldn't even touch the leaf. They would poor test the soil. And they would say, you know what, Piers, there's no nitrogen in the soil. And they would add nitrogen to the soil and the leaf would heal. Human beings are no different.

42:43The challenge with supplements is that most of us are supplementing for the sake of supplementing. We get online and we see resveratrol and CoQ10 and ashwagandha and St. John's wort and they all sound great. And we just start piling in all this stuff and none of it works. The question is, what does your body need? And so when you do a genetic methylation test, you find out exactly what your body can convert into the usable form and what it can't. So you no longer guess on what you need to supplement with. You supplement for deficiency. And this is when supplements are magic. Supplementing for the sake of supplementing is just complete guesswork.

43:15It's like just taking a shotgun and blasting it in the dark. When you supplement for deficiency, magic happens in the human body. If you have the most common gene mutation in the world, which is called MTHFR, you're MTHFR? I won't tell you what the nickname is for that gene on this show. What is it? We're uncensored. Oh, we're uncensored. It's the motherfucker gene. Stands for methylene tetrahydrofolate reductase, just so you know. But we call it the motherfucker gene, the MTHFR gene mutation. 46 % of the population has this gene mutation. It is an inability to properly methylate or process folate and folic acid.

43:52Now, folic acid, interestingly, is not a natural compound. You can't find folic acid anywhere on the surface of the earth. It does not occur naturally in nature. But it is in so many of our supplements. We give it to pregnant women as soon as they get pregnant. We're told you need to take high doses of folic acid, which is patently false. You need to take high doses of methylfolate or folinic acid. that the US FDA actually just approved the first prescription strength four days ago, folinic acid, which is the form that skips this gene mutation and is bioavailable. So when you look at certain genes in your body, you look at these genes that you can fix with supplementation.

44:30Now you can't actually fix the gene, but you can target its deficiency. This is when magic happens in human beings. But we're walking around with anxiety and ADD and ADHD and OCD and manic depression and bipolar and gut issues and autoimmune, 85 % of which is idiopathic. It's of unknown origin, just like the Sears diagnosis in her father is idiopathic. And that's not to degrade the diagnosis. But if it's idiopathic, that just means that modern medicine doesn't have an answer for it. If it's idiopathic and of unknown origin, why don't we go back to what God gave us, not what man makes us, and supplement for deficiency and let the body do its job.

45:08Piers Morgan:This seems so much more logical to me. But of course, there's a huge industry built up around giving people things they don't need. That's right. That's the problem. And you can make an argument for any one of those things at any different time. I mean, I'm a big fan of ashwagandha and CoQ10 and St. John's wort and NMN and NAD. And all of these different supplements have their own place. But unless you supplement for deficiency, nothing else matters. You know, in the plant example, if you didn't find the nitrogen missing in the soil, nothing else Well, I don't take anything at all. Okay. Because you're a specimen of a mind.

45:40Piers Morgan:I'm 60 years old. Might be while you're coughing. I do a bit of work. Well, I just nearly want to go off to them. A professional. I've been a pro. All the same. And I'm 60 years old. I do a bit of working out. I like a few glasses of wine. I eat reasonably healthily, but I wouldn't... Occasional, every seven weeks, a Big Mac. How long have I got? So everybody's on an actuarial curve. But, you know, in the science that we used to look at was specific mortality. If we got 10 years of medical records on you and 10 years of demographic data, we could really zero in on that number. So you could tell me when I'm likely to die?

46:23In a population of 1 ,000, we could tell you your life expectancy to the month.

46:28Piers Morgan:The big question is, do I want to know? Do you want to know? I'll come back on the show and tell everybody. Yes, exactly. Let me think about that. Dana had 10.4 years. We've run out of time. It's been brilliant. I could do this for hours. Next time, we probably should. Really good. To have you both was great. Thank you for that. I'm so sorry for what you've been through. I had no idea about that. I'd have dropped you a line. They're really bad about Jordan. They're two people I really respect and like and have done interviews for each other's shows, and I had no idea you'd been through this. Great to see you.

46:55Piers Morgan:Thank you. Looking so well. Great to have you here in the studio. Great to meet you, Gary. Great to meet you. Dana still talks about you like you're the... the second coming. And Cristiano. I think I'm going to see him in Saudi in a week, actually, next week. Oh, I'll see him in two weeks. So the one thing he's going to absolutely love is that you're saying he has a body of a 22-year-old. He will like that. That I can guarantee. Guys, thank you both very much. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing.

47:27Piers Morgan:Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate, and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.

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