“We’re Never Told The TRUTH” Directors Oliver Stone & Sean Stone on Kirk & RFK Assassinations

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0:38These extreme people were very disturbing. And we should remember the old assassinations because we never solved them. There's a lot of question marks, and let's see what gets revealed. Will there be a trial that Lee Harvey Oswald never have, for example? How do you think RFK was killed? The bodyguard shot him directly, point blank, in the head. The United States is unable to tell the truth about its mistakes and its failures.

1:02Piers Morgan:Does it ring true to you that a 22-year-old young radicalized man could with a single shot pull off that assassination without other help? America has a long and tragic history of political assassination, a subject which could seldom be more pertinent than this week. Robert F. Kennedy was fatally shot 57 years ago, leaving behind a complex legacy and an indelible mark on American history. Legendary film director Oliver Stone and his son Sean have delved into his incredible story and shocking demise in their new documentary, RFK Legacy, and they join me now. Well, welcome to both of you. Sean, we've never met.

1:43Piers Morgan:Great to meet you, albeit virtually. Oliver, great to see you again. It's been a few years since we last were in this situation. It's been a long time. Yeah. How are you, Oliver, first of all? You've been very hot topics. You've been very busy the last few years. Yeah, well, you know all about hot topics. It has been hot topics. It feels very timely to have you guys with me to talk about this particular subject of your film, given what happened last week, and it sort of feels odd not to start with that. When you heard about the assassination of Charlie Kirk, Oliver, what was your reaction to it?

2:24Piers Morgan:What did you feel?

2:28Of Mr Kirk? Yeah. I regret it. It's a very tragic situation and it's the resumption of that period in the 1960s when four of our national leaders were assassinated. Very disturbing and indicative of a violence in the citizenry. that divides us. And it's only extremists, you know. It's extreme people, but very disturbing. And we should remember the old assassinations because we never solved them. We left it... That's part of the problem. We left them uncovered. We never told the truth. A bunch of lies, as you know.

3:05Piers Morgan:Yeah, well, it's really interesting. I mean, Sean, before we get to your film, you know, from your perspective, what is happening, not just in America, but we'll focus on America for the purposes of this. What is happening that is making young people, it seems, from what happened last week, think that the only way to debate somebody is to shoot them?

3:32Well, do you want to... You take it. I would suggest that we are in a polarised situation. Personally, I don't believe necessarily the narrative of the lone gunman. I think that there's a lot of question marks, and let's see what gets revealed in this coming time. Will there be a trial? Lee Harvey Oswald never have, for example. But look, we've seen, as my father mentioned, the lone gunman theory four times in the 60s, and I think in every case there was a greater conspiracy at work as there was with Abraham Lincoln, for example. But in terms of the question about why young people are willing to shoot other people, we see with mass shootings and things like this.

4:11We are in a polarized time. We know this. We have to look at, as RFK Jr. has talked about, we do have to look at various drugs and things like this, prescription drugs. There's mental illness problems. It's clear. You know, a lot of young people are dealing with all kinds of mental disturbances, bipolarities, schizophrenia, you know, you name it. So we have created a culture, I think, right now that is allowing people to celebrate Charlie Kirk's death, for example, right, publicly. In the old days, that would have been done privately. As the film JFK, hey, you see the guy in the bar, Guy Bannister, is cheering, right?

4:45People like that are cheering. But it was the rare occasion. Now you can go out there on Twitter and celebrate and get tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people who cheer because of the nature of social media. So we are in a very polarized time, and it's scary, I think.

4:59Piers Morgan:Yeah, I completely concur. One out of a hundred people say something ridiculous and mean, that gets projected on the internet to 100 or 1 ,000 times, you see. So it's not fair because most of the people are sane and most of the people are calmer. And that's the problem. The internet magnifies everything. Yeah. Yeah, I completely agree. And, you know, I was thinking the other day that when I was young, it seems a long time ago now, but when I was a teenager, for example, the ability to consume the kind of content of Charlie Kirk being shot dead, that just didn't exist. You wouldn't see that as a teenager in the 70s.

5:46Piers Morgan:There was no ability to see it. You know, the media just wouldn't show it to you. And you had no phones, you had no internet, you had nothing like that. So I feel for young people in particular, I feel their brains are getting pretty scrambled by the constant and unrelenting amount of very negative dopamine stuff that they see. But let's get to the purpose of why you guys are here. Oliver, this movie about Robert F. Kennedy, like I say, it's obviously very timely, but you make a very good point that there were all these assassinations of incredibly important people in the 60s, and yet we still have so many unanswered questions about all of them.

6:26Piers Morgan:And in relation to RFK, obviously, Saran Saran is still in prison. in California for killing RFK, but you believe, I think, and I've had this conversation with RFK's son, RFK Jr., you believe that that may not be the case. Explain why. It's quite... You know, if no one's ever looked at this RFK case, one of the things that haunts me is that after the JFK success, I wanted to go on, and I tried to do a Martin Luther King, but it was frustrating. I couldn't get there, no financing. And at the same time, I always considered RFK. But Emilio Estevez directed a film about him, and he said publicly at the time, I couldn't go further because I saw what happened to Stone.

7:19He got so massively criticized. So as a result, the RFK case was let go. But it's even as egregious as the JFK case. And in this film, thank God, Sean, which I'm very proud of, shows at the end a lot of the details of the assassination as explained by Robert, because Robert has thought about this, and he's a very serious man. I'm very proud of this film, very proud. It's a family that has been ignored too much. We should get back into the RFK case. But Robert Kennedy himself has been under attack so much in the last few months, few years, that it defeats the purpose of telling the truth, you see.

8:06You can't tell the truth without upsetting all these people who have beefs, who have objections. Well, let's listen to Robert Kennedy. He makes sense. Let's start with this film.

8:18Piers Morgan:Well, let's take a look at a trailer from the movie. I wanted to be working with nature. He was appalled at what he saw. This is how he became the leading environmental lawyer in the United States. There's no right to pollute. The polluter pays. My views are constantly misrepresented. It's terrible what they did to suppress Bobby's free speech. He accepted his burden, and he did his duty. We have to make an effort to get beyond these rather difficult times. We have to stop trying to destroy each other. What we need in the United States is not division. We have to find a place of light, of empathy, of compassion.

9:03I don't know if there's a curse. We do what we're supposed to do, but the outcome's in God's hands.

9:13Piers Morgan:It's a very powerful trailer, Oliver. But, you know, in relation to that question I put a couple of minutes ago, How do you think RFK was killed? What do you think really happened? Oh, I think the bodyguard, Sir Thane Cesar, who was standing four feet behind him, shot him directly, point-blank, close contact in the head. And you should read the... People don't even remember that Thomas Noguchi was the autopsy. He wrote a great report that people ignored. The shot could not have come from the front. But the shots were sprayed all over the place by Sirhan, who was tackled right away by Robert's bodyguard, Rayford Johnson.

9:59And in the melee, everybody got confused. But the LAPD is basically the most responsible because they closed off all the roads of investigation. There were two high-level detectives who had worked with the CIA in South America on their USAID program, teaching torture, learning about torture, everything down there in South America that we did in that period with the CIA was passed on to the LAPD. These people were all over the place. They didn't care about solving the case. They wanted to close the case as quickly as possible. The result is Sirhan, as we know, was brainwashed and completely out of it.

10:41He didn't even remember anything. And he says he was an innocent guy who was confused. And it shows it in the film. And Robert discusses all these points of evidence where the shots landed and the history of Fane Cesar, the bodyguard who was appointed, his bodyguard about three days or a week before, and turned out to be. and the LAPD didn't even take the gun from Cesar. They didn't even examine the gun. They just let him walk away. See if it had fired, for example, right? Yeah, well, Sean, see if the gun had been fired.

11:15Piers Morgan:Right, so Sean, it's a dramatic narrative that this film is telling. And like you said, I've spoken to Robert F. Kennedy Jr. about this. What happened to that bodyguard? Today's show is brought to you by Oxford Natural, makers of the Optimum Day and Optimum Night all-natural supplements. Thousands of Brits and Americans are already taking them with incredible results. Optimum Day is designed to boost your energy and support weight loss throughout the day. Optimum Night helps you relax and get deep, refreshing sleep. And don't just take their word for it. Here are just a few of their success stories.

11:54Piers Morgan:England football legend Michael Owen lost 40 pounds. Robbie, the face of AFTV, dropped over£100. Linda, a top law firm executive, lost£50. And Anita, an immigration lawyer, shed£60. To watch their full stories and find out more, scan the QR code on your screen or visit OxfordNatural.com slash peers. And here's the best part. Use the code peers, P-I-E-R-S, and get 70 % off your first order. Get 70 % off with the promo code peers. Yeah, Cesar, he ultimately ended up in the Philippines, and it was an interesting little potential story if Robert Jr. had been able to go to him. Basically, they were communicating, I think, before COVID, I believe, and Cesar wanted money to talk.

12:46Now, in the film, we don't say Cesar actually did it. We do say that he did. We know he drew the gun. We know that the bullets, according to the autopsy, came from the rear, and they came from about an inch behind the head. Four inches. They came within an inch or two behind the head and in the back. So the killer was in the back. So Cesar could have either held him while someone shot him or he could have himself shot him. We don't make the accusation because we can't prove it. But it's sad that RFK Jr. never had a chance to confront him and actually maybe hear a story that he might have been able to tell before Cesar passed away.

13:20Well, you see Kennedy, Robert, in the footage, he turns around and he tries to deal with it, but he's cut off, he makes the move to back behind him. To grab the bow tie. Which he would do too as a reaction to the pain.

13:33Piers Morgan:Right, and Oliver, what was the motivation for this bodyguard to kill Robert Kennedy? Well, if Robert Kennedy was going to be president of the United States, I think everyone kind of knew that he had the momentum, the big mo, that he had the spirit to end the Vietnam War. that Johnson was deeply unpopular, and it was looking like a clear path because he'd won the primary in California, as well as other states. California sealed the deal, and he was almost killed that night, right? They won the primary, I don't remember exactly. He announces it, he walks off the stage into the kitchen there. So when you talk about, for example, a military-industrial complex, right?

14:19You talk about we know the CIA has elements that are involved in assassination. We know this, right? They were working on assassination plots against people like Castro, but there were countless other foreign leaders. And I think the whole point is that people who question the CIA's role in someone like Cesar, Lisa Pease is an author who's done huge, huge work into this investigation for decades. She says, as her research shows, Cesar actually listed the CIA as an employer of his at one point. Robert Mayhew was very integrally connected, as we know, with the Howard Hughes empire of military industrial, you know, right, airplanes and jets and things like this.

14:59Also, Mayhew was then part of the contracting of Cesar. So he's a key character. We don't get into Mayhew, but Robert Mayhew is one of those great mystery men that does tie mafia, CIA, LAPD. I mean, he's one of those great connector types that you have to look to as an investigator. The point was that whoever pulled off the original JFK assassination knew for sure that Robert Kennedy was going to reopen the case. And he said so before he died. It's to students.

15:27Piers Morgan:We knew that Robert Kennedy had enraged the mob by going after them aggressively after his father had supposedly done these deals with the mob and then they all felt betrayed. What is your presumption, if it was this bodyguard and that gun that killed Kennedy, and if he was in the pay of the CIA, what would have been the motivation of the CIA to take out Robert Kennedy then? What is the working theory you have about that? Well, because they were involved very deeply in the JFK assassination. There could have been nothing but recrimination on them. In fact, they would have gotten rid of that agency, which we should have done back in the 1960s.

16:11The CIA has been one of the most detrimental organizations to our security, the real United States that matters. They are a corrupt organization, evil organization. They've done, there are not everybody in it because they don't, they work compartmentally of course. There's not a lot of, you can't say the whole CIA, but it's definitely, they're involved at numerous levels in so much evil, so much evil. There was a coup against De Gaulle right before they killed Kennedy. A coup that was, Dulles was involved. Alan Dulles was a guy that Kennedy fired. It's a dirty, dirty story. But we don't have time on television to go into the history of this thing.

16:56Robert didn't even want to know about it until he read, until Paul Schrade called him up. Paul Schrade had been shot in the face right next to him and survived and told him, read this report. the Thomas Noguchi report, which he read. He was shocked about his own father. And thank God he's one of the Kennedys that's responsible. And it's like Hamlet, you know, do you go after your father's killers or not? Well, Robert Kennedy has proven that he's willing to do that, and he has courage, tremendous courage, to stand up to all the attacks that have been put on him. Here's a man who's done so much good in his life.

17:33He's fought, you know, environment. He's fought Mercury. He's a progeny from the days of Rachel Carson, DDT. Remember the DDT controversy? They didn't take any responsibility for it. Robert was a big fan of Rachel Carson, who he met as a kid. And as he grew up, he fought against Mercury. He fought against River. He cleaned up the Hudson River, which was a mess in New York State. And then he went on to this COVID, the COVID whole experience. And that's another weird story that doesn't hold up because the United States is unable to tell the truth about its mistakes and its failures. That's the essential problem here, Piers.

18:23Goes back to so many cases. Just to finish on that CIA point, if you want. But just the CIA, I mean, again, if you're talking about JFK saying he wanted to splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces, right, RFK was his right-hand man in his administration, right? He really was, and you'll see through this documentary, how important RFK was to JFK's success. And the fact that JFK is gone and RFK is running for president, if he became president in 68, he's going to work to end the Vietnam War, which we originally began as a CIA war, if people recall how we got involved. He's going to investigate his brother's assassination.

18:57So the people that are involved in killing JFK, I believe, were wanting to get rid of RFK as well.

19:04Piers Morgan:And Oliver, do you believe that there is information in the RFK files which the federal government has in its possession, which the American people have not seen? Well, we haven't... We haven't seen the RFK file in depth. Right. But let's talk about JFK file. That's really been screwed up. If you remember correctly, the film was made in 91. That's almost 40 years ago, right? 35, yeah. 35 years ago. And the Act of Congress said, JFK Records Act, bring out the classified files, unclassify them. And then eight years ago, Mr. Trump said, I want these files open. Again, he reiterated it. Nothing happened.

19:54Eight months ago, Mr. Trump said, I don't want any conditions put on these files. I want them open. So there's no reason not to give us all the files. So what happens? Nothing. The archives were a mess because people have gone up there. Nothing is indexed correctly. It's not even digitized, not digitized. And it should be by now. So many years have gone by. They could have done it. The archivist was not paying any attention, didn't care about this case. That's the problem. And on top of it, files have strange stories. For example, we don't even know that the records board, which existed from 1994 to 1998, actually saw everything.

20:42it is the the chief the ton ton on the the chief of that of that commission never saw most of these files that have still because partly one of the reasons we think is because the CIA gave the files to the archivist before the commission could work from 94 to 98 so And sometime after 91, when the film was made, 92, the act is passed. Between 92 and 94, some strange things happened. In other words, you need the full cooperation of the government to open these things. And not that there's going to be proof in them, but there's going to be clues. And there's always been clues. There's already a lot of clues that came out since the movie came out.

21:28A lot. And I tried to put them in our documentary, which I hope you see from 2021. One, JFK Revisited. I'm sorry, JFK Revisited. It's a beautiful documentary. It's two hours long. It's well worth it. I recommend it again because it goes into details that were not revealed in the film and have since been revealed. It's probably the most important documentary I've done next to Untold History of the United States. I'm most proud of it.

21:59Piers Morgan:And Oliver, just bringing things back to where we are this week, the world is being told that this was a lone shooter who killed Charlie Kirk, this guy Tyler Robinson, that he was radicalised by the left and so on. You know, given all that you've been talking about in relation to two of the most high-profile lone shooter assassinations in American history, do you think, I mean, conspiracy theories are running riot already about this, but does it ring true to you that a 22-year-old, young radicalised man could with a single shot pull off that assassination without other help? It's not just how the news is told but what's left out which concerns me.

22:45Piers Morgan:And when a friend in the business recommended I try Ground News I gave it a go. Quite honestly, I was impressed. It does something brilliant which most news platforms are afraid to do. It's an app and a website that lines up coverage of the same story from across the spectrum. Left, right, international and lays it all out side by side. That kind of transparency is increasingly rare and is vital. Ground News helps you to dig in and find the facts by showing you who owns each outlet, what their bias is and which stories are being buried. It has an especially revealing blind spot feed, which services stories being reported almost exclusively by only one side of the political divide.

23:23Piers Morgan:I want to hear every side before making up my mind. Ground News makes that possible and easy. It's independent, funded by subscribers and not corporate interests, just like my show. And it's a tool that puts the power back in your hands. Go to groundnews.com slash peers to claim your 40 % discount to the unlimited access vantage plan and see what everyone else is missing. That's groundnews.com slash peers. Peers, I understand, but I cannot comment on a case that has so many loose ends. I mean, even more important is the fact that President Trump was almost killed in Butler, Pennsylvania, and then again was almost hurt in Florida on his golf course.